The Current State of the US Auto Market

berri

Exactly. That's why I always try to focus on net out the door purchase price and projected trade value down the road, plus additional maintenance costs if the vehicle has expensive service costs or a known upcoming issue, like early replacement of the cheapo standard equipment tires on most Toyota's. I think it's outrageous that a Highlander Limited listed in the 40's has those awful and short lived Toyo's out of the factory, so you really need to add a grand to the calculations to replace them in 2 years or so.

ateixeira

Having said all that, put all the costs in a shredder and buy what you love. :shades:

berri

That's a very valid comment. But vehicles are getting so similar that it's been awhile since there was a "gotta have" for me. What I generally do is decide what type of vehicles, then look at various ones before coming down to the several I like best. After that the calculations come in. I know people put down cars in the rental fleets, but I've actually decided to look at some vehicles that I may not have after renting them, so I think it's a two edged sword. Just don't want too high of a percentage in the fleets I guess.

circlew

In an attempt to help push vehicle safety to a higher level, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety created a stricter Top Safety Pick+ rating last year, which incorporates a brutal small overlap test and requires cars to get Good ratings in four out of the five categories (and no less than Acceptable in the fifth). Joining the list of the safest cars of 2013, the 2013 Volvo XC60, Lincoln MKZ, Honda Civic (sedan and coupe) and the 2014 Mazda6 have all received the coveted TSP+ rating.

Five vehicles named Top Safety Pick+ including new Civic, MKZ

Where are the Top Auto companies? Back to the drawing boards.

ateixeira

Forester has been on their top pick list since 1999 so I doubt it will get anything but their best rating.

uplanderguy

May very well have been posted already, but I heard/read yesterday or the day before, a Subie recall about fobs where cars are starting by themselves!

ateixeira

In another thread, yep. Happens when you drop and break the key fob, though.

Pretty soon they're going to recall all bottled beer.

Back off your are NOT taking my beer NHTSA!

berri

I saw something today that it's related to the remote start aspect. I don't know about beer, but pretty soon New York City may take away your soda pop!

ateixeira

230k Windstars:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/10/ford-finally-issues-recall-for-230k-minivans-- - over-rust-problems/

Subaru's was small but they had a bigger one for puddle lights earlier this year.

Those Fords have been problematic - the axles were also known for rusting. Now floor boards and seats.

We considered one way back when, ironically that was because of good crash test and safety features they touted.

By now hopefully 2004 models are being used by plumbers, not families.

scwmcan

It wasn't that long ago a nine year old car without serious rust was considered an anomaly now they are recalling them, times have changed ( in this case for the better).

ateixeira

True, these are long past the rust perforation warranty, FWIW.

nvbanker

put all the costs in a shredder and buy what you love.

For a guy in the financial business - it's odd, but I totally agree with what you said. I have always gone after the car I wanted, and once that is determined, the cost is irrelevant beyond getting the best price I can get on what I want. Then I don't worry about it. I have never worried about true cost to own, depreciation, or how expensive the car may be. As a result, I have spent hundreds of thousands in my life on cars - not smart, but fun! Oh well.

ateixeira

If you're unhappy and have to trade again sooner then expected, you didn't save any money at all.

Better to spend a little more and be happy, then keep it longer.

fintail

I like how you think. Might as well enjoy it while you can, you can't take it with you. I think so long as one is spending less than they make, there is no real harm done in enjoying a car. Sure, a financial guru would advise buying a used cheap to run car, drive it til it dies, and replace it with similar - but car people have a hard time with that. Life is too short, and in terms of personal transport, these are still the good old days.

hpmctorque

Am I the only one that's conflicted, where one side of my brain agrees with nvbanker while the other tells me to be conservative?

By conservative I don't mean "buying a used cheap to run car, drive it til it dies, and replace it with similar", because that's more frugal than I want to live. Conservative, as I'd define it for myself, would be the midpoint between the range that fintail describes. To elaborate, it means buying what you want and driving it until it becomes uneconomical to keep it. That's what I've done most frequently. That's partially because I tend to bond with my cars over time. I know that's not rational, any more than trading compulsively is.

I definitely don't believe in choosing a car just because it's cheap or the cost-to-own is low. That would go against me, but some people do exactly that, even when they could easily afford a more enjoyable ownership experience.

ateixeira

You have to make sure you're comfortable enough to live with the car day in, day out. Your standards may get higher as you grow older (and hopefully less poor!).

circlew

Despite his profound failures of both strategy and execution, Akerson has not yet fundamentally crippled GM. It remains chock-full of talent, it is well-positioned in various important global markets, and it is on the cusp of dramatically rehabilitating its reputation for uncompetitive product. In short, like Akerson himself, Reuss would be inheriting a company with a lot of things going for it. The key is reviving the company’s self-confidence and image with the public, tasks that the youthful and relatable Reuss has proven his ability at. But most importantly, the key is getting Akerson out before another crucial product launch is botched, before another strategically unwise investment is made, before GM’s reputation and unity is finally destroyed, turning GM into America’s Opel.

The Case Against Akerson, Part 3 of 3: Loss Of Confidence

fintail

Live within your means, but enjoy yourself. Frugal can be good, but not for everything. Most of us here consider ourselves to be "car people", and none of us would really be happy if we were really frugal regarding cars. And non-car people are happy keeping the cheap sled for 10+ years while spending money other ways.

I bond with cars too, which is one reason I recently moved on - the longer I kept the previous car, the harder it would be to part with it later. I already have the fintail as a sentimental object, I don't need to start hoarding old pets.

stever

Our problem is that every time we got a new car, we'd quit our jobs and go on a long road trip. Except for the used Outback in '05; settled for driving that one home 2,700 miles.

fintail

Quitting jobs and taking big trips after buying a new car - you're doing it wrong :shades:

lemko

I buy the best car I can afford and keep it a long, long time. My 1989 Cadillac Brougham has been with me 24+ years and I'll be going on six with my 2007 Cadillac DTS Performance. As of today, my wife has had her 2005 Buick LaCrosse eight years! Gee, our old LaCrosse runs great!

lemko

I doubt many of us would be happy driving a 15 year-old Corolla though it would make financial sense as long as the car ran well and wasn't eating one alive in repair costs.

stever

I enjoyed my Tercel for 17 years and only sold it to take a long road trip in the new car. A Corolla would have been a luxo barge. :shades:

uplanderguy

I'd far rather spend 'car money' on an old (hobby) car than something contemporary. That's typically what I've done, except now I'm old-car less, thank you Miami University! LOL

ateixeira

Nothing wrong with an old beater, you just don't get any driving enjoyment from it. Makes a good spare/winter car.

stever

Depends on the beater though. The Tercel was a light little 5 speed and fun to tool around in.

fintail

Most of us wouldn't, but Scrooge would. Reminds me of that guy in Nevada who died with no direct heirs, and had a hoard of gold coins stashed away. Probably had a miled up ex-rental 95 Prizm in the garage :shades:

I can think like uplander, more fun to have a cool old car and a normal daily driver. But, I have an old car that I don't want to restore, and also a case of "you only live once", so a new modern car came my way.

andres3

I don't even think a Corolla that's been sitting at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean for 15 years could eat one alive in repair costs :P

ateixeira

I wonder if an older, simpler Toyota would be more reliable than a fancy/loaded new one.

andres3

Well, it is the Toyota's that were built and assembled in Japan that created the perception of legendary reliability for Toyota.

circlew

DETROIT — Safety regulators in the U.S. are investigating whether to add more than 1 million General Motors midsize cars to a recall for brake light problems.

Recall started in 2009 with 8,000 Pontiac G6 sedans from 2005 model year for brake light issues.

Brake Lights - NOT!

stever

And everyone says, big whoop.

"On the topic of vehicle recalls, roughly 70 percent of respondents feel there are a lot of recalls today, but they also believe it's simply a normal part of everyday life now. In fact, while 42 percent of people try to keep up with recall updates, approximately 90 percent of respondents don't feel the recalls make them nervous about other vehicles on the road. Ultimately, nearly 50 percent of respondents said the recalls will not affect their next purchase or lease decision on their next vehicle."

Are Car Shoppers Bothered by Recalls and False MPG Claims? (theautochannel.com)

dieselone

I buy the best car I can afford and keep it a long, long time.

I've kept my 07 Expedition longer than any previous vehicle I've owned. I haven't owned a car with over 117k miles on it since the '75 Buick Regal my grandpa gave me when I was 16.

While the Expe is holding up okay, I am getting a bit paranoid. I'm not used to having a daily driver that I depend on when out in the middle of nowhere having this many miles. In the back of my mind I wonder if this is the day I'm going to need a tow truck.

At this point, my goal is just to keep driving it for another year or two if possible.

circlew

It's unclear exactly how many shares taxpayers own, but it's close to 270 million. That means the U.S. government would have to sell its remaining shares at a price of about $72 to break even.

The government held about 19% of GM shares before the latest sale. Shares closed at $28.37 on Tuesday, up 6 cents.

A Treasury Department official recently confirmed that the government will not lift GM's executive pay restrictions until the government sells its final shares of GM stock.

ateixeira

I think it doesn't hurt that the Elantra is a competent vehicle overall. Owners are willing to forgive a few sins if they still enjoy the car.

One interesting thing about recent recalls is that Toyota reported a higher owner loyalty rate for those that *did* come in for recalls. You bring customers back to the dealer and have a captive audience; if the timing it right maybe they'll trade?

I went in for a spare tire chain that wasn't even rusty (it might have been rusty, the recall said) and they washed my minivan for free. Dealer is only 2 miles away so I basically got a free car wash.

Hopefully there are more of those. LOL

uplanderguy

And everyone says, big whoop

I've posted recalls here before...but never...'deciding whether to add cars to a recall...'. LOL

I remember some dude posted a three-year old Corvette recall on the other board as a new recall.

In related news, Nissan announced two separate recalls on 2013 models today...one for airbag issues that cover five models (including an Infiniti), and the other for a fire hazard on only 392 Sentras.

uplanderguy

Honda recalls a couple hundred thousand cars today for brakes...not just brake lights.

ateixeira

Found a source:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130314/AUTO0104/303140399/1148/rss25

It's a fairly big one.

imidazol97

"
Honda is recalling nearly 250,000 vehicles worldwide for brakes that can suddenly kick in even when the driver isn't braking.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130314/AUTO0104/303140399#ixzz2NXZxsUr0

The brakes activate without the driver pushing the brake pedal. How's that work out in rush hour traffic at 75 in a 55 zone on urban interstate--rear impact city!!!

Terrible dangerous problem from Honda here. :sick:

ateixeira

There's an echo in here. :P

No crashes have been reported related to the defect

No crashes = terribly dangerous?

imidazol97

>No crashes have been reported related to the defect
>No crashes = terribly dangerous?

Absolutely. If this were a GM recall, that's all we'd hear from one source.
(Spoken with great sarcasm.) Echo: Off.

ateixeira

Fair enough, we'll give that one a pass.

andres3

to tailgate, so failed brake lights shouldn't make you rear-end someone.

circlew

GM is leading in Customer service.

Satisfaction with dealer service rises, Lexus and GMC are tops

anythngbutgm

A recall covering cars that are 8 - 10 years old, says something about Honda's and longevity.

Just sayin.

ateixeira

Funny to see GMC get 5 stars and then Ram only gets 2 stars.

ateixeira

Ford Motor Co. CEO Alan Mulally's compensation fell 29 percent in 2012 as the company failed to hit several performance targets.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20130315/OEM02/130319941/ford-ceo-mulallys-2012-- compensation-falls-29-to-20-99-million&cciid=email-autonews-blast#ixzz2NcOdaKlO
Follow us: @Automotive_News on Twitter | AutoNews on Facebook

Imagine what he'd have made if Ford had hit its targets! :surprise:

berri

It looks like GM will indeed carry over the old Impala for fleets only and call it the Impala Limited. Does this make sense? I know the tooling is paid, so the fleet sales will be profitable and enhance cash flow. But Chevy is also trying to move the new Impala upscale. Seems to me they tried this about a decade ago with the new, improved Malibu and all the Malibu Classic did was kind of obscure it. Same for Ford when they carried over the old Taurus as a fleet only car.

ateixeira

It will help boost residual values for the new model, I think.

ateixeira

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/03/15/2014-chevrolet-impala-first-drive-review-vide- o/

Very positive review. Even seems like the MyLink works better.