Mazda Protegé

meinrad

High miles kills the value of a car. You can throw those percentages out the window when you start talking 20,000 miles in 8 months. No one is willing to pay 13K or 14K for an 8 month old car with 20,000 miles when they can get a brand new one for 15K. Thats why the value dropped so much. I know I wouldn't even look at a car with that much mileage so soon. And thats the dealers problem, how does he convince someone to buy it unless he sells it really cheap. My guess is, if the Jetta is driven as many miles in as short a time as the Pro was, that the percent of depreciation would be relativley the same.

mdaffron

I just went to the Edmunds home page and did a little comparo. I priced a loaded 2002 Jetta 1.8T with all the goodies you've got -- leather, heated seats, Monsoon sound system, sport suspension, alloys, etc. MSRP? $24,675.

I then went and priced a one-year-old Jetta 1.8T with the EXACT SAME OPTIONS, plus I included a mileage of 20,000. Trade-in value was $14,887.

That's a TEN THOUSAND dollar bite, or a hair shy of 40 percent depreciation in one year (well, keep in mind those are more like two years worth of mileage). On the other hand, if your numbers are correct on the Protege, then you only lost 38 percent off of MSRP trading in the Protege. Looks like the Protege held its value slightly better in the high-mileage situation.

(Important point, though -- keep in mind that 38 percent of the Protege's MSRP equates to a loss of $7,045. 40 percent of the Jetta's MSRP equates to $9,870. So even though the percentages are close, your Jetta's higher initial price tag made it depreciate nearly $3,000 more than the Protege did.)

Sorry -- I didn't make up the numbers, I just plugged 'em in.

Meade

vocus

I said after FIVE years, not one. And that's also with average mileage. I drive alot, so I will have high mileage.

That's also why I will be glad to get a second car for my dad. He doesn't drive during the week, so I will drive it back and forth to work and save my mileage on the Jetta.

mdaffron

So now we've come full-circle, my friend!

You admit to being a high-mileage driver, which will negatively affect your eventual trade-in value on your Jetta, yet your 20,000 miles in 8 months on the Protege shouldn't have affected its trade-in value? Like I've just proven, the Protege held its value, under those circumstances, better than the Jetta you traded it in on. So be prepared for an even bigger bite next time.

I thought you were going to get your dad a Kia -- a Spectra, was it? several months ago?

Meade

vocus

Actually, it was a Rio. And we got held up a little bit, because he has been having trouble with his eyes. Now, he needs surgery for cataracts (sp?). So after that, hopefully his eyes will be good enough to drive. If not, then we won't need a second car.

He's just as happy taking the bus or having me drive him around, but I am sure he wants some independence, and I am not home alot (hence, the high mileage!), so it would be good for him to have his own car. He was used to going with my mom all the time because she drove, but she passed so that option is not there anymore. I think it's time for him to drive, and he wants to as well. Weird teaching my dad how to drive though.

And I forgot one thing: CarMax said the Protege was worth $9500, because of the repainting (when it was hit when new). So I think the $11,500 was pretty good...

mdaffron

I apologize -- you probably told us, but I don't remember.

Meade

protegextwo

What the Heck! Paul you go to your room and Meade you go to your room! Now! :-)

mdaffron

But daddy, Paul started it!!!

mdaffron

YOU started this.

Meade

vocus

I sold the Bonneville before I bought the 2001 Protege. It was too big for me to use when commuting (too much gas), my dad doesn't have a license, and parking restrictions on the street where I live meant I could not leave it sit for a long period of time. I sold it to this guy who had a 1989 Bonneville with 220K on it. He was very happy to get the car. He paid $4300 cash for it, mainly because it was an SSE and only had 77K on it, along with a warranty to 103K.

pjd58

You only deal with depreciation when you sell or trade-in your car. Kinda like losing value of a stock you own(paper loss), it isn't a loss till you sell.

I keep my car for an average of 5 years and don't take the hit of someone who gets a new car every year.

Pjd58

wrgraham

Boggse, thanks for the detailed and well thought out analysis of the ownership costs. In retrospect my question about gas mileage being better on Honda's and Toyota's was really in the spirit of hoping to learn what is done differently in the design of those engines. And since it has gone on for so many years, it mustn't be a mystery. Some tradeoff I suppose, cost maybe.

ashutoshsm

VTEC (Honda) and VVTi (Toyota) are the reason for the mileage difference compared to a car with simpler valve timing management systems (the Protege, for example)

I'm sure you can find more references for this - and details, but in a nutshell - these technologies are good at squeezing extra miles out of every gallon, but destroy the driveability of cars like the Civic and Corolla (compared to a Protege) around town. Another difference - the torque delivery is more efficint at high engine speeds (rpms) explaining why they make (slightly) quieter highway cruisers than the Protege, but are no fun (at all, really!) around town, especially when loaded with even 1-2 passengers or a loaded trunk/plaks from Home Depot etc!

Anyone want to chip in with links/details on VTEC/VVTi and the advantages/disadvantages? Does Edmunds have a discussion?

-ashu

boggse

Here is a link which goes a long way towards explaining valve timing:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm

sfrat

Boy, I thought my edmunds account had burped and I was reading posts from when Paul got his Jetta. Anyway, it seems everyone got that out of their system. If I can throw my two cents in though; MSRP is pretty much meaningless, its a car actually sells for that matters. So comparing the MSRP to the trade in is not fair, because the values are typically inflated; well that and no one really pays MSRP anyway. But I think what hurt the value more than anything were the miles. Anyway. Paul I appreciate your concern. The beltway was indeed designed by the devil. My favorit is the nearly ninety degree on ramp going toward silver spring from Wisconsin Ave. The sign is right above the onramp, and honest to God completely blocked by a tree branch until you are under it. I once saw a car from Ohio cut across two lanes to make the exit, and decelerate because you can only take it at about 20mph max. And this is a major road around here. Its also the way to I-95 North as well, so a lot of out of town people need to use it. Crazy I tell you.

vocus

I know what you mean. I come down 295 every day from Baltimore. I sometimes stay overnight at a friend's house who lives off Connecticut Avenue, and that commute from there to here (on 495 towards NoVa) is actually better than from home. There is alot of drama on 495 all the time though. People around here need to learn to slow down and take their time, but they don't.

And you think 495 is bad? Try going through the various circles in DC (and one I go through all the time, Chevy Chase circle). Those people in that circle will kill you! They don't play around.

sfrat

Strikes fear into me. I avoid it at all costs. It's one nasty piece of traffic engineering. BTW, if you're that close, stop by sometime. If you make a right on Bradley Blvd from Conn. Ave, go through the light at Wisconsin, my aparment complex is just up from there on Bradley.

sfrat

Does your wife's new P5 have the autodimming mirror feature. I see its listed as an option, but I've heard no one mention of having it. Just curious. Seems like something nice to have.

cpoupart

I'd say with half the medals with one-tenth the population, given you had the home advantage, and we one both the men's and the women's hockey,

WE WON THE BATTLES AND THE WAR!

Regards,

cp

vocus

My Bonneville had that auto-dimming feature on the mirror. It let you choose either "light" or "dark" settings. I have never seen one in a Protege, but from the experience I had with the Bonneville's, I didn't like it. I would rather flick the mirror dimmer switch myself when I need to, not when the car wants to. Also, that can be an expensive thing to fix if it breaks.

I am actually down there alot. A friend of mine lives in Friendship Heights, and I spend alot of time there, especially on weekends.

shrique

oh yeah imagine that you did well on WINTER sports. (GRIN)

Oh well if we can't have it I would rather the Canadians win it than anyone else. Go North American Continent! (chuckle)

mazdafun

I hope they keep that optional. I usually don't like something to think for me if it's of minimal benefit, like an auto-dimming mirror. Just something that costs more upfront and is a maintenance headache later when it inevitably breaks.

In fact, I prefer manual windows, sunroofs and locks to the power versions. I do like power side mirrors though.

protege_fan

May sound odd, but we've sucked in Winter sports until recently. Heck, it took us 50 years to win the men's hockey gold medal again. But now that we've won the gold again, I think it will finally put a lot of BS surrounding North American styles of hockey to rest. Yesterday's game was incredible to say the least.

Sporin

I spent Friday evening watching the men's Curling final. Canada choked on the last stone and Norway took it.

I kid you not, I was riveted. I'm trying to find a place to play that crazy game. Apparently there are a few ices in Mass. And I'm only 2 hours from the Canadian border.

i'm not kidding...

protegextwo

Hey, even a "blind squirrel" can find a nut if you give him 50 years! BTW, when Team USA scored the first goal, the look on Wayne "Greatsky" face was priceless! He looked like, he caught Janet Jones "Greatsky" with the paperboy. Hehe :-))) Nonetheless, the better team one. Congrats to Team Canada!

Sorry to hear about your Protege, Steve Frat. :-(

-old head

elec3

You guys fight way too much to be just friends...so when's the wedding? Might I suggest a public ceremony at the next MAPP?

protegextwo

Time Line: Late afternoon 2/12/02
Scott, my service advisor calls me back and leaves the following message on my answering machine...."after investigating the check engine light and the O.D. flashing light, we discovered a problem with the closed canister drain cut valve, it has power and is grounded correctly, however it sometime interminably fails to open properly. We called Mazda and opened a case and we are now authorized to replace this valve. The car is O.K. to drive as is and you can stop buy to pick it up any time. We have ordered the necessary parts and will call you when they come in."

To Be Continued-

Time Line: Late afternoon 02/25/02

I'm very very sad this afternoon. Today, I took Trudy's Protege in for the repair for the check engine light and the flashing O/D off light. After, having her 2000 Mazda PRO-ES since 7:00 am this morning, my service advisor from Lancaster Toyota Mazda called me at 5:00 pm to tell me, the car needs a new transmission. He told me they found another code present. A open circuit condition, the transmission shift solenoid is stuck in the off position. Come on man, this is poop. I can't believe it?

Mazda will replace the transmission under warranty and give me a rental car for 4 days. Hopefully, my wife will get her car back by Friday. I'm am just sick. My enthusiasm for Mazda is not so good right now. I pretty hissed at the dealer for not finding this code issue when they had the car on 02/12/02. I'm also really, really, REALLY worried, I got two of these vehicles. What if the tranny in my 2000 PRO-ES craps out after the warranty expires later, this year? I can't afford to spend over $4,500 dollars to repair a transmission in a less than 3 year old car. Trust me, I'm gonna 86 both my Protege's before the warranties expire. I'm gonna get my wife a 2003 Toyota Corolla and perhaps a 2002 left-over Honda CRV for me. Sorry folks I ain't zoom zoom zooming today.

Respectfully,
Larry

maltb

did you notice it driving erratically?

Seems strange that if a solenoid was stuck you wouldn't notice but a light on the dash.

protegextwo

No, I honestly cannot say I noticed anything out of the ordinary. I have been driving Trudy's Protege, since Scott Ruhl; told me about the closed canister drain cut valve issue on 2/12/02. Seemed fine to me accept for the flashing O/D off light and the check engine light. BTW, he said, it was allright to drive as is. I can't believe it needs a new tranny. There was never a problem with the tranny in either car, before? Malty, I have all my dealer recommended service's done at Lancaster Toyota Mazda, including the 15,000 and 30,000 mile major services. They did the automatic transmission service (drain fluid, remove pan, clean and inspect, refill with fresh fluid) on her car on 12/14/2001 at 31,383 miles. The tranny felt the same before and after this service. Smooth as silk. I am really bummed out, my friend.

;-{

-Larry

chicagopro

Steve F.: That totally sucks about your accident.

Larry: That totally sucks about your transmission.

Let's have some good news!

mazdafun

Today was warm enough to drive with the windows down, so I cranked up the tunes (with my upgraded speakers, of course).

Fun.

Too bad we're getting a mix of ice, snow and rain tonight.

fowler3

and I don't blame her, but things happen. Wonder why they don't repair or unstick the solanoid and replace it?

wrgarham: The four Accords I owned got 24 city - 31mpg highway at most, the latter a 1998 with V-Tech, which I didn't like...they hesitate too long kicking in. My 2001 Protegé LX 2.0 with AT is rated at 25 - 30, I actually get 28 city and 36 highway.

Larry and SteveFrat: Sorry about your cars. Hope it all works out for you.

Notice how even those with Pros they are happy with look at other cars? Read other Edmunds forums, and shop around?

For years I have gone to dealerships on Sundays, when they are closed, and looked at cars. And now that digital cameras make taking pictures cheap, I take it along. In past years I have seen many people, some in brand new models, cruising car lots on Sunday afternoons. I wondered if they were unhappy with their purchases and started shopping again.

One afternoon, I asked a new car owner why he was looking again so soon? He said, "It's been ten years since I had a new car and I was expecting it to be really fun, a car I would enjoy for a long time. I've had it two weeks and it doesn't feel any different from the one I traded in -- it's just another boring 4-door sedan."

BTW, maybe Toyota meant "Simmons Beautyrest Matrix" when they put in that rear beam axel. LOL! (This line not related to the above paragraph.)

fowler3

fowler3

Those Trackers with plastic bumpers, Larry will look like an Amish cousin from the Shenandoah Valley, a "black bumper" Minnonite.

(When cars had chrome bumpers the Minnonites painted them black.)

When I bought the Mazda GLC, in 1981, my co-workers called me that because of its black bumpers.

fowler3

sunbyrne

Wow, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles--I hope that it gets worked out and you can go back to loving your Proteges. But look at it this way: better now than right *after* the warranty expired.

browntrout1

I don't think your tranny problem is something that is inherrently wrong with the car. I know it sucks for that to happen to you but as the saying goes stuff happens. I'm assuming it's an auto protege since you were saying something about the O/D light. This is the first that I have heard of a protege with transmission problems. I know the manual tranny has been more or less the same unit over the past ten years and has been pretty much problem free. Not familiar with the auto too much.

I also had a freind that had his tranny go on him. He got someone to change the tranny oil for him. They filled up the tranny with oil but forgot to put oil in the axles. Some trannies require this when you change the tranny oil. Anyways, the mechanic didn't know. All I'm saying is that there is a possibility that there is a problem with the work they did (the dealership) and since they are to fault, they just fail to mention it. It's all under warranty so the car gets fixed no charge to you, and they don't look like idiots. Not too far fetched. I find the Mazda service department at my dealership are a bunch of morons!

zoomzoom79

cpoupart: It doesn't matter how many men you have in your army .. it's who gets to stand on the podium afterwards.

Larry, you have expressed my sentiments exactly. While the Protege might be a good car while it's still under warranty, as soon as I hit 45,000 miles or so the Pro's going bye-bye. I have extreme faith in Hondas due to my past experiences ... my experiences so far with the Protege aren't exactly faith-inspiring. Yes, it's fun-to-drive and yes, any car can have problems BUT I just can't see this car going to 100,000 miles without nickel and diming me to death after the warranty is up.

The new Corolla is nice but the absence of a fully independent suspension completely knocked that car off of any future list.

mdaffron

... when they have one (albeit major) problem with their car? Larry, have you considered taking your wife's Protege to another Mazda dealer for a "second opinion?" I don't know much about automatic transmissions (I drive a 5-speed myself), but I DO know that a solenoid is nothing but an electromagnetically activated switch. You've got to replace the entire tranny because a damned SWITCH went bad in it somewhere??? What -- is the tranny a sealed unit? I don't think so!

Larry, think about it this way. You've driven two cars about 70,000 miles with nada problems until now (we'll ignore the fact that yours attracts deer and tire retreads like an electromagnet). That's a pretty good record. And this problem -- whatever it turns out to be -- is covered under warranty. And now you've condemned BOTH cars because ONE had a problem. Corollas may be great cars too, but they're not bulletproof either. Maybe you'd be better buying a 10-year-old Corolla and having no monthly payment; then you can spend the equivalent of a monthly payment keeping the car running.

Why is everyone all of a sudden convinced that a Protege isn't worth keeping past the warranty period? My 1992 LX was running like a top and had never had any problems at all when I traded it in at 83,000 miles.

You guys just need to cool down a little and take a breath. Larry, I don't know about this transmission thing, but you've been in stitches long enough over this "canister drain cut valve" thing. Everyone has said it's a rare problem, and it's covered under warranty. So stop whining about it and get it replaced, and get on with your life and enjoy your cars! Meanwhile, take Trudy's car to another dealer and find out exactly why Lancaster Mazda says you need a new transmission when yours is running fine!

I hope you'll take this as some level-headed advice from a friend. You're a smart shopper; you researched the Protege's reliability before you purchased the cars. It's a very reliable car with excellent ratings from consumer groups, auto magazines and fellow owners. I wouldn't be condemning the car just yet; I'd be looking for another shop. Especially since they didn't catch this the first time -- sounds suspicious to me!

Good luck!

Meade, still enjoying my third and fourth Proteges

P.S. My brother had a 1991 Honda Accord whose air conditioner compressor (along with some related parts) went bad about a month after his warranty expired. The job cost him over $1,000 and it was enough to make him get rid of the car.

protegextwo

I've been posting at Edmunds Town Hall for over two years. My very 1st post was right here praising my Mazda Protege's. I truly love my cars. Furthermore, I've been a truly venerate supporter of this car all over Town Hall. Yesterday, I was in shock and really bummed out. Today, I tad more understanding. I've thought a lot about my buying decision back in Feb & March of 2000. If I could go back,....the only thing I would have done differently? I would have purchased the extended warranties. BTW, Meade you might be able to yell at vocus in this Town Hall discussion. However, I am bigger than you and I will drive to Richmond, Virginia and tear the sway bar off your wife's Pro-5 and beat you pretty with it. LOL :-) So, watch your mouth.

-Larry

Sporin

I'm with Meade on this one. Some of you guys are falling for "Edmunds Paranoia." This is a condition caused by reading too much information from a tiny fraction of owners.

The Protege has a long history of trouble free driving. ALL cars will have a glitch here and there, don't let it get to you.

I plan to have my Pro5 for many, many years and hundreds of thousands of miles. Nothing I read on an internet BB is going to change that.

boggse

Larry,

My sister has had very similar problems with the Auto transmission on her Honda Civic. My Ford Taurus (I inherited it, not my choice) auto transmission died at 45k miles. A rebuilt one would have cost me $2100, so I drove it to the Jeep dealer and left it there until the Cherokee I ordered arrived. My mother's 1995 Mustang GT is on its third automatic tranny (with the first one, the extended warranty paid for itself). My Jetta had to have various repairs done to its automatic on 3 separate occasions. My point is that it seems like modern automatic transmissions have become so complicated that they are becoming less reliable, but not in a predictable manner. Perhaps I have just had some bad luck, but I made sure that won't be an issue any more by buying a 5-speed manual in my 2001 Pro. It is more fun to drive that way too.

sfrat

Sorry to hear about your car troubles. Things happen though. It sounds pretty rediculous that they need to replace an entire transission (that sounds like it was otherwise working, and shifting fine) just because one solenoid went bad. The sole function of the solenoid is probably to turn that O/D light on and off. At least its under warranty though.

To everyone else: Thank you for sympathy. I feel I was pretty lucky.

boggse

Mazdafun,

I'm curious to know what speakers you got. If you posted it, I must have missed it somehow.

I was planning to get Kenwood KFC-6808C's for up front and the MP3 Kenwood 6x9's for the rear deck. The only other 6x9's I can find that fit the top clearance are Bazooka M690s which are marine speakers which go for about $149 at Crutchfield. The Kenwoods can be had for $137 at Mazdastuff and are 3-ways(tri-axial) instead of 2-ways(co-axial).

shrique

I have to say this is the first major thing that I have read of a Protege at all on this board. Most of the other stuff is a rattle or strange noise or something along that line.

Someone earlier suggested going over to the Escape boards a look through there. They are talking about having a computer chip replaced 3 times and having their computers reprogrammed on a new car. That was to fix the fact that it would stall out.

I've done TONS of resarch on my new Protege5 and I plan on this being a 10 year car. If you read Consumer Reports you will notice that they work on percentages. Even if you have a venerable Civic there are still a percentage of car owners that have issues. There is no perfectly reliable car. All you can do is steer yourself away from the ones that are most likely to fail on you.

mdaffron

I leave one "back to Jesus" post and everyone comes out of the woodwork with support. (Except "Old Head" himself, who threatens to drive down here and beat me senseless with a part from my wife's car.) Everyone read it? There, I have WITNESSES!!!

Yeah ... let's ditch a car that's proven reliable for 30,000 miles and had a problem fixed under warranty for a new car with a COMPLETELY UNKNOWN track record, not to mention another four or five years of car payments (that undoubtedly will be higher)! Sure ... I see logic in that!

I'm glad you're starting to cool down, Larry ... I didn't want to have to take a day off and drive up to Lancaster to slap you silly with my wife's Protege5's rear bumper step plate that I haven't installed yet ...

I'll say some prayers for your 2000 ES ... you know, I have one too!!! But mine's a 5-speed -- lucky me. (Our new P5 is an automatic, though, so I'll have to choose my words carefully if we ever have a tranny problem.)

Meade

P.S. Even big guys need a talkin' to every now and then, my friend!

meinrad

I feel bad about the transmission problem, but things like that happen to all cars. Most people consider Honda Civics to be a bullet proof car. Well, I've got a 92 Civic that needed a $1300 repair after only 50,000 miles. Now I got kind of lucky, even though it was out of warranty, American Honda paid for all but $100 of the repair because it was such an abnormal kind of thing. I can't remember what it was called exactly but something warped in the engine. My dealer really pushed for them to pay for the repair and they came through. But the point is, sometimes these things are just anomolies, and although they make us mad, it's not a reason to abandon the ship.

newcar31

Like shriek said, this is the first major problem that I've read about since first posting here last February. I'd say that's pretty good. Go check out the Accord forum and read about transmissions, specifically the V6 auto. Various Toyota forums can be entertaining also....that sludge thing is really interesting. By entertaining, I don't mean that I like to see people angry, I just like to read about people suing automakers. I'd say we're lucky.

chicagopro

"Some of you guys are falling for "Edmunds Paranoia." This is a condition caused by reading too much information from a tiny fraction of owners."

Excellent point!

dinu01

Sfrat: Glad you and your PRO are ok.

ZoomZoom79: As protege_fan said, with 10% of your population, we came up with 1/2 of the medals you came up with, while you also has home-ice advantage throughout the games. I say Canada did better than the US too

Tranny: About our PROs' auto trannies, are they the infamous units manufactured by the FoMoCo that have proven to be inferior on the 626 (and maybe Tribute/Escape combo) for many years? I think it is and this is my ONLY worry with this car. I don't expect anything else to go wrong with this great car, except the 4EAT. Then again, I'll svc the tranny at the dealer and if it ever happens I'll be the one saying: "You sticked your paws in my car, now fix it".

Larry: As Meade said, there's no reason to flip and say PROs are POS cars. Guess what? Like someone else here said, I too had MAJOR problems with the 93 Civic (radiator+thermostat+water pump gone, A/C gone - needed to replace it with the new style>A/c conversion $$$, cylinder head gone, head gasket blown, tranny shifted funny at times) and I also knew the A/C compressor was about to go and let's not forget I had to add 1L oil every 2 weeks!!! Still got $6000 CDN for it, but IMO that car was not reliable by any means, although it handled superbly on dry roads and snow and looked great!

So take a deep breath Larry and think about it. Pymts on a new car for another 4 yrs -vs- the odd repair after warranty expires??? I'll stick with the PRO.

Dinu

mdaffron

I was watching MotorWeek on PBS this week (PBS carries the newer episodes; the ones you see on SpeedVision are a few weeks old usually). The subject of the show was their 2002 "Drivers Choice Awards."

While no Mazda model won an award this year, they did a little featurette on the history of their Drivers Choice Awards all the way back to their first year 21 years ago. When they mentioned the Mazda 626 winning "best family sedan" several times in the mid- to late-80s, they took the opportunity to say that Mazda has accumulated the MOST Drivers Choice Awards of ANY CAR MAKE since they started doing this in 1981.

Thought that might help some of you who doubt Mazda's capabilities.

Meade

Sporin

Sometimes I think these Internet board actually hurt the car ownership process. How many of us have owned cars we've loved and enjoyed, cars that had a problem here and there, but overall were excellent, only to get online and find out we were driving the biggest piece of junk in the automotive world? Jeep sells 1/4 million Grand Cherokees a year, but if you read the topic here, you'd think they all fall apart left and right and wonder why anyone buys them. Well... people buy them, drive them, and never have a lick of trouble. These happy people, the vast majority, never bother getting online to talk about it. you only hear from the people who have had trouble. So if all you ever do is get online, all you'll hear is the trash.

There are some exceptions. This particular topic is prety "enthusiest-oriented" and there are other sites that are so. But Edmund's is aCONSUMER based site, so mostly you hear the hard luck stories, and that's all.

The posters on Edmund's represent a TINY FRACTION of the total owners of Protege out there... keep that in mind.

I don't want to minimize Larry's problems, they are real and I don't blame him for being upset. The Protege has a long history of reliability and durability, if something goes wrong, you fix it and move on. There isn't a car made today that is or will be, 100% perfect... it's impossible.