Mazda Protegé

boggse

If you have a multi meter, you should be able to determine the positive lead easily. I am surprised that the stock speakers' inputs aren't labeled. How would manufacturing know which lead to connect?

rbrooks3athome

Unfortunately I don't have a multimeter. But maybe this is a good time to buy one. If anyone knows about the wiring let me know. Otherwise I may buy a multimeter tonight.

alternator

The following is just my opinion, but I've had no engine trouble ever with a long succession of new cars: Please don't "keep it even at 60mph", or at any one speed for any length of time. For the first 800-1,000 miles try to stay below 60mph and vary the speed up and down, with moderate acceleration (up to 60mph) followed by a sudden lift off of the accelerator pedal. Good luck.

fowler3

What a pain in the neck catching up this morning, literally. LOL (trifocals)

All that Civic vs. Pro business was really the pits. If either side convinced the other -- what did they gain? Nothing!

dinu01 said:
Browntrout and I don't mean it to be disrespectful, but a large # of Americans are very ignorant about anything outside of their little world that affects them directly. If they don't see it, it doesn't exist.

True, dinu01, 85% of Americans have never traveled outside of the country and many of those have no idea where states and cities are in the USA when major events happen. Many Americans have never been to other states and the less fortunate have never been out of their hometowns. Those who do travel may not be all that interested in foreign affairs, the politics of other countries are not the reason they travel.

About *bobbing* on the road: My Pro was doing that over one stretch of road I travel daily. After the tires were rotated and balanced I noticed it less. Part of the problem was the road surface which has ripples on it. But I don't notice the bobbing as much now. It's sort of a hip-hop action fore and aft as if the car's short wheelbase may be the cause. In a car with a longer wheelbase (110 inches) and softer suspension it would not be felt.

Sport suspension: To be perfectly honest, I don't like it. It has softened up somewhat and is now tollerable. But I DO like everything else about my '01 LX 2.0. I would never buy an ES nor the Pro5. Love the styling of the Pro5, don't like the interior -- never liked black and I don't like the fake metallic pieces.

I bought the Pro for it's styling and comfortable seats. If a car's seats are too firm, read cloth covered rocks, no matter how fine a car it is I walk away. Also, I like the bronze center pod. I have beige trim. I do appreciate the fact that the suspension provides the great handling.

On hard starting: I agree with dinu01 on turning off all electrical accessories. Pilots are trained to turn off all electrical devices before shutting down the engine, so the battery starts the engine the next time. I follow this procedure in my Pro so I don't get a blast of cold air in my face, and for the same reason pilots do it.

fowler3

chicagopro

The other day, my dad was driving with me and quizzed me about why I was turning everything off (fan, defrost, etc.) before turning off the ignition.

Me: "But that's what they taught us in driver ed in high school!" (to avoid hard starts)

Him: "But that was a million years ago! That's not necessary for cars these days."

Driver ed, for me, was in 1979. True, that was a million years ago...so who's right?

By the way, fowler, my driver ed teacher was a former pilot

fowler3

So am I a former pilot.

What that precaution really does is prevent a device from draining the battery. Say there is a short circuit somewhere you don't know about.

fowler3

number42

From my read of the manual in the area about the break-in, it states something to the effect of stay below 3000 rpm, varied speeds, go easy on the brakes, no sudden starts or stops, but doesn't really say anything about limiting speed.

I don't think I have even touched 3000 rpm, even at 60mph, going uphill. I do understand that the break-in period is mostly to make sure all the parts wear properly, and that the parts that are slightly off-tolerance wear themselves properly into tolerance.

Am I missing something?

protege_fan

I don't remember it saying anything about starying below 3000 rpm, but what I know it says for sure is that you shouldn't stay at one constant speed for extended periods of time.

dinu01

Vary your speed and stay below 3000RPMs. You know, it's really easy to do w/a 5 spd and even w/an auto (like mine). I usually have the PRO shift below 3000 in city traffic not to put too much pressure on the car. Yeah, you might think I'm a freak about it, but I LOVE this car and plan to keep it in the family for a long time. But I also switch the O/D to off and pass all those Civics, hehe! (Sorry ZZ79)

Dale: All acessories should be OFF to avoid battery strain at start-up. Remember, your battery is under a huge demand at start-up. Why reduce its life?

Ron: good luck w/the speakers. I have limited knowledge on this topic so I won't tell you where you should connect them.

Dinu

number42

You are right. Very easy, So far I have been very gentle with my pro (well except for that hairpin ramp at the end of the Long island Expressway that said 25mph that I seemed to be doing 45 at.... oh well, no damage, except for my wifes nerves. Gentle acceleration, minimal braking, and varied Speeds in the 40-65mph range on the highway and 10-35 on the street.

Did I mention that the Pro's handling has already saved me from a few accidents?

zoomzoom79

when the key is in the start position everything cuts off anyways. It's built into the ignition switch.

elec3

I assume no liability for my following comments. Listening to me (as always) is something you do at your own risk

It is standard electrical engineering practice to indicate the negative wire or lead in a connection. This is sometimes done by color but most frequently done with a stripe on the wire. As such, if it were my car, I would assume the striped wire to be negative and the (dotted?) wire to be positive. This turned out to be true as I recall when I needed to splice my sub into wires going to one of the rear speakers. If you want I have a post(s?) about wire colors for rear speakers I believe over in the Pro5 thread but it may take quite a bit of reading to find it. Sorry I can't be more helpful, and again, you use my information at your own risk (I installed my sub over 8 months ago and have since forgotten most of the details).

mazdamikey75

I really appriciate your responce. The more I think about the Protege the more I like it. Its way more fun to drive than the new '03 Corolla and even ahead of the Civic. I was wondering though about tires. I was looking at a tire ad for The Tire Rack on C&D and could not find the Pro ES's size anywhere. Its 195-50VR16. Who makes this size tire and how much do they cost?

alternator

Dealer will let you look at "shop manual wiring diagram" where speaker wires should all be identified.

fowler3

You go easy with a new engine because it is tight and varying your speeds lets the cylinders and rings seat properly. Driving at a constant speed they may not do that. Also, take it out on highways and vary your speed at higher RPMs for the same reason, not just stop-and-go city driving.
Avoid lugging the engine, having it in the wrong gear for climbing a hill, for example, where it stalls.

Vary the speeds by bringing it up to the posted limit, or slightly higher, and then easing off so it slows down. Take it easy with the brakes, too. They need tø wear-in properly.

fowler3

fowler3

how the low fuel warning light works -- GOOD. I had only $2.50 in my pocket and the light had been on for two days. The needle almost down to the big E. I needed some gas to get to my friendly Bank of America to get money for the weekend and to -- buy gas.

Went to a nearby BP station and put in $2.00 worth, less than two gallons. When I started the engine the light was still on. Putting the Pro in gear I moved forward and then backed up to slosh the gas around in the tank -- the light went out. The needle moved up two tics on the dial. Ahhh.

fowler3

fxashun

in the Lexus forum. :-0

number42

Its saying that break-in is 600 miles (1000km) is this safe or should i break it in longer?

boggse

According to TireRack.com, you can find a number of tires in this size, including the Dunlop SP Sport 5000m which came on your Protege. Just go to their web site and put in the Make, Year, Model, and Trim Level into their configurator, and it will present you a list of tires that fit. The prices range from $70 to $151 each. I think there are about 5, but, if you call, there are a few more that don't show up on the configurator. Some people here recommend the Dunlop SP Sport A2. If you are looking for a great summer tire, I recommend the Dunlop SP Sport 9000 or the Toyo Proxes T1-S. TireRack doesn't carry these in the Protege's size, but there should be a dealer in your area that can get them for you.

vocus

I never went above 4500 rpm in my automatic 2001 Protege ES when I was breaking it in. And that was until the car reached 1000 miles, just to be safe.

dinu01

I would say 600 miles is fine.

Paul: You had it to 4500 to break-in the parts? You were then probably going 85-90 mph? So what did you usually drive at if that was for the break-in period?

browntrout1

vehicle speed doesn't have much to do with the break in. You want to vary the engine speed. All I did when I was on the high way was drive some parts in 4 gear, some parts in 5th. In town i drove around in 3 or 4th when cruising . Tried to keep it under 4500-5000 rpm. Once I hit 1000km, I couldn't take it. I had to take it up to 6500.

Does anyone know the torque specs for changing the spark plugs on the 2000 1.8L engine? I'm going to change them soon.

newcar31

Tighten the plugs until your elbow clicks

Just kidding. I don't know the torque spec, but I have never torqued spark plugs. What I can tell is that they don't require much torque. Be careful because you are threading that plug into an aluminum head.

fowler3

I would think of 600 miles as the minimum and 1000 miles is much better. You will get to 1000 very quickly.

fowler3

vocus

I meant taking off, I did not let the tachometer go above 4500 rpm. I did not let vehicle speed go above 70mph during the break-in though (which was 3100rpm in my car). After 1000 miles, then I revved it to redline alot and ran 85-90 mph most of the time on the highway.

mazdafun

I'll check the connections this afternoon and post tonight. I forgot as I just used the wiring harnesses (slightly modified) supplied by Crutchfield.

A cheap multimeter (about $15) should easily indicate which is ground. Using the ohmeter (to measure resistance), touch one probe to a piece of exposed sheetmetal (bolt, screw, whatever) and another to a lead. When you get close to a zero-reading, you've found the ground lead. The other is the "hot" or positive lead.

Some multimeters have a continuity tester. Basically, it sounds an alert tone when it detects resistance below a set level.

boggse

Did any of you who have replaced the stock speakers in the rear deck of your Gen. 3 Protege run into any fit problems? The Crutchfield web site says that only one model of 6x9s will fit, the Bazooka M690. It is a marine speaker, so I would expect it would cost more than a non-marine speaker. It seems to me that there must me more speakers available to fit under the deck than that one. However, this is what Crutchfield says:

"In answer to your question about speakers for the rear of your Protege, I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that, unfortunately, the 6x9" speakers will not fit because of the mounting height available under your factory grilles. You are limited to .488", and almost all 6x9" speakers are .6" or more. Sorry I don't have better news for you there."

"However, the good news is that you can move to a 6.5" speaker with an
adapter that we will provide for free with your purchase."

newcar31

go check out my question in the maintanance section.

protegextwo

Well, My wife's 2000 PRO-ES is running fine for the last four days. A guess the tranny transplant took? I'm relieved the car is fixed and we hope to resume care free Zoom Zoom Zooming. I would like to thank everyone in this discussion who offered support last week. Special kudos to Maltb! Sir, I owe you a couple of pints of lager, my friend. However, the critics of my OD On and Check Engine Light and my honest straight-forward Transmission Build Quality posts can kiss my A S P A R A G U S, lol!

-Larry

mazdafun

The 6.5 rounds will have less distortion than the elliptical 6x9.

I think the grills on the rear deck were lowered from the 99-00 model years to clear the ISOFIX latches up top. This doesn't bother the stock speakers as they don't have dedicated tweeters or midranges, only a "whizzer cone."

An alternative is to mount your 6x9 speakers under the metal deck. You'll want to put support straps under them in case the screws come loose so your speakers don't fall. The upside is they'll be easier to get to/replace. The downside is they cut down on your cargo space.

vocus

I read something in the 2002 edition of a Consumer Reports used car guide at Books-A-Million over the weekend. It said something about a transmission solenoid problem and the OD light coming on. It said to replace the PCM though. This was on 1999-2000 models I think. Check out the pub if you see it on the newsstand.

mdaffron

That means I don't have to worry, since my 2000 ES is a 5-speed (no solenoid and no O/D light, of course), and our new Protege5, while an automatic, is a 2002 model!

No worries!

Meade

nematode

My 01 ES sat for 4 days in sub freezing temps. This morning it started without any problems at all. I really like having a "new" (12k miles) car. My old 89 Taurus with 157k miles was a warrior but it would have protested if I left it like that. I'm not sure it would have started at all.

What's the most mileage you have extracted from one tank with your Protege? I got 392miles on 13 gallons (auto). Without overfilling or cheating. From the same station at the same pump only filing to he auto shut-off. I did have to stay around 60mph the whole time and tried really hard to keep the engine below 3k rpm at all times. Has anyone here grabbed 400 miles from a tank?

protegextwo

I once drove to Pittsburg to see the Who and Peter Frampton in concert at Three Rivers stadium. We were in my brothers 88 Chevy Astro van and his girl friend was the designated driver. I'm proud to say, I was prolly tanked the whole 400 miles out and still tanked for the 400 mile trip home. So yes,... I have grabbed 400 miles from a tank, (twice) in one day.

-Larry "love train"

newcar31

got to know the answer to my question posted in the maintenance board.
This is killing me. I hate not knowing what to do.

fritz1224

The mpg in my 2k ES 5 sp. absolutely sucks. Just filled up and calculated 25 mpg. That's terrible for such a small car and engine(1.8) I know winter fuel mixture and such have some bearing, but this is only 5 mpg better than my wife's v6 accord. The pro is running just fine. Of course, I do wind the shifts out to 4k or so, but still... And this figure is with some highway driving included!
I still owe about 4k on it, but after it's paid off I will be looking into something else with better mpg. I see no sense in enduring the safety compromises inherent in a small car and not getting the normal benefits associated with it.

twistinmelon

Tax refund arrived, so I'm a dangerous man with a big downpayment burning a hole in my checkbook.

I test drove a Pro ES over the weekend. I was disappointed. Sorry. I'm glad you guys like yours, but it doesn't fit my needs.

The salesguy insisted on letting the car warm up for at least 5 minutes before we went on the test drive. With the references to cold weather noises on this board I'm not surprised at that.

I like the looks of the car. I like the roominess. I like the feel of the wheel and the buttons. I don't like the lack of a useable right armrest, which would make having a 5 speed in Chicago do-able as is the case w/ my Accord.

Anyway, I was stunned at what I found when driving the car. It had an automatic (no 5 speeds on the lot), so I was ready for a bit of lag in acceleration. But I was not prepared to accelerate more slowly than my minivan. Also, the brakes were not acceptable. I rolled past a stop sign (no danger) because I kept gently applying increased pressure to the pedal but had to finally jab the thing hard to get to a full stop. My wife's 89 Escort's brakes were better than what I experienced on this car.

The handling was as great as everyone here has said. It was truly enjoyable to take around corners. But the ride was much more harsh than my wife or I could tolerate for a length of time. By comparison, the Focus ZX5 I drove an hour later had equivalent handling but a much nicer ride. And a nicer stereo, too. ;-)

I'm glad you guys are so enthused about your Pro's. Your testimonials were the main reason I was seriously considering the car. I assume the car I drove was a bad apple in some regards, but the harsh (to me) ride can't be explained away.

And there's no need to bash the Focus in response. I already know its shortcomings (questionable quality control, rear seat legroom, some interior parts seem cheap). But I found it to have better acceleration and ride quality than the Pro and equivalent handling.

The Civic I drove this weekend was okay, but even with the 5 speed it wasn't nearly as quick as my '92 Accord. And the interior wasn't as nice to be in as the Hyundai I sat in at the auto show. It may run for 300k miles, but they've cut many corners on the Civic this time around.

I think to get the combination of room (I need an occasionally useable back seat, which eliminates the Sentra and probably the Focus for me), acceleration, ride, and interior quality I want I may end up paying a bit more and getting another Accord, unless the new Corolla or Matrix knock my socks off during a test drive later this week. For the price of a modestly equipped Matrix, which is going for sticker around here, I could have an Accord LX with $$ left over for accessories or an extended service agreement.

In any case, it's been fun reading your Protege adventures for the past 9 months or so. I wish I could join the ranks of Pro enthusiasts here, but it's just not in the cards.

Thanks!

twist

boggse

Mazdafun,

It sounds like you are recommending the 6.5" rounds over the 6x9s. I thought you got Pioneer 6x9s in your 1999 Protege Sedan? The 6.5" speakers that are available are all component speakers, so I am guessing I will have to mount the tweeters somewhere else. What do you think about 5.25" 2 ways instead? Also, Does anyone know what model number Kenwood 6x9s Mazda sells from the 2001-2002 Performance Accessories brochure? They are 3-way, so either they have a low clearance for the midrange & tweeter, or they mount differently.

boggse

Sorry to hear you didn't like the Protege much. To each his own. If you are really considering the Focus, I would mention one thing you should take into consideration. Unless they have changed the front seats since last year, you may find as I did that they can become very uncomfortable on a long trip. Since this was one of the reasons I disposed of the Jetta (w/Leather), it was a bit of a turn off for us with respect to the Focus. The specific problem I experienced was the feeling that something was sticking me in the back after about an hour into a trip. My wife had a similar complaint. This was on the ZTS trim, and other models may have different seats. I believe the Edmunds reviews at the same time (about 1 year ago) mention this. Also, the driver foot well seemed a little cramped compared to other cars in the same class. Other than those minor complaints, I thought I was generally a good car. Good luck with your shopping, and be sure to let us know what you end up getting and how you like it.

chicagopro

You're right about the brakes on the Pro compared to some other cars...they take a little getting used to. I have to say, though, that they've always been there when I really needed them.

Just out of curiousity, which Mazda dealership did you go to?

the_big_h

25 mpg is within the EPA estimate for your car (25/30 IIRC?), albeit on the low end. I knew of this tradeoff when I bought my 00 ES, but I really like the abundance of low-end torque for zooming around city streets, so I'm not complaining. I have an auto, and I've been averaging 25-27 mpg over 20+ refills. To each their own I guess...

If mpg is your top priority when buying a compact, maybe you should look into a Toyota Echo? Not much fun to drive or look at, but it does have Toyota reliability, relatively cheap, and boy does it save on the gas....

Sporin

You really shouldn't jude the acceleration of this car with the automatic.. it hurts a lot. The car also get's noticably peppier once broken in.

I think the brakes on my P5 are pretty great. {shrug}

I have also never noticed a cold rattle problem, even up her in VT.

My sister has a Focus and LOVES it and I think the ZX5 is very cool.

fowler3

Why don't you check the Kenwood web site, maybe they list it there.

twist: Protegés aren't for everyone, particularly the firm ride. The struts do soften up a bit after 2000 miles, but still, it is firm compared to Focus. From your description I would say even a Honda LX would not fill that order; poor handling compared to the Pro and Focus ZX5.

What you really need is an Audi A4, but it also has firm suspension, even without the sport option.

BTW, I had a '92 Accord and one of my complaints about that car was the misserable backseat backrest, it had a big lumbar bulge that was a real pain for most people. Evidently, Honda listened to too many pregnant women who wanted back support on the way to hospital delivery rooms. It was changed with the '94 model.

nematode: On a trip last Fall, I got 36mpg in my '01 Pro LX 2.0 w/AT. It would have gone 400 miles I'm sure. I topped the tank before starting the trip; drove 324 miles and topped the tank again, stopping at the shutoff -- it took 9 gallons even. I, too, kept my speed under 65mph and under 3000rpm. Maybe you don't realize precisely how you drive and that may be part of the problem. I drive for economy every time I get in my Pro: watch the tach, get up to higher gears quickly without excessive speed and rpm's.

vocus: No wonder you had problems with your ES if you were redlining it after only 1000 miles.

We all know the Protegé is a wonderful little commuter car with firm suspension and great handling which adds fun and entertainment value. It is not a sports car. So why do so many stress it to its limits and beyond?

The best insurance/extended warrenty on any car is FREE! I'm surprised so few take advantage of it. It's called COMMON SENSE.

fowler3

twistinmelon

William Mazda in Oak Lawn. 95th Street & Oak Park Avenue. Not your neck of the woods.

It's a very low volume shop from what I can tell. The Mazdas are in an outbuilding at a Buick dealership. It used to be the used car showroom/office. Barely room for two offices, 4 cars, and a bathroom. I've gone in there and played with the Pro & Pro 5 for 10 minutes without encountering another human being.

Salesman I dealt with seemed like a good guy. He was the only one on duty on Friday night. But every time he needed something...to make a copy of my license...to find out when the current financing plan ends...to get a key for the test drive...to get one of his business cards(!)...he had to walk half a block to go back to the main building.

twist

fritz1224

The epa sticker that came on my car says 26 city 30 hiway. If my driving is a mixture of city and hiway the mpg should be more than 26 but less than 30 I would think. Mileage wasn't my top priority but was a factor. Handling, reliability and comfort would also be right up there and so far the pro has met those expectations.
Insurance costs are something else. I thought the pro would be relatively cheap to insure and when I first took out the policy it was. But due to rating code changes those costs have steadily risen until it now costs more to insure my pro than my 2k accord. And it's not because of a poor record. I have an excellent driving record. I guess as the new style pro has compiled a history of accident repair costs, the insurance companies have responded with rate hikes.
I just can't see a long term relationship with this car.

boggse

For all the Flash interface, the Kenwood web site is almost devoid of any information about anything other than their ultra-new, over-expensive products. They don't even mention the MP3 in their Vehicle Gallery despite all of the Kenwood hardware that came with it. Thanks for the thought though.

fowler3

That saleman needs training in getting organized. Your report reads like some comedy acts I have seen on TV -- doing one-thing-at-a-time. LOL

fowler3

the_big_h

keep an eye on the mpg for few more tanks and see if it evens out in the long run. I had mpgs as low as 22 and as high as 29 (00 ES autos are rated at 24/29). Because there's so many factors that could affect fuel efficiency (fuel, traffic, weather, tires, road), the best way to see if your car's mpg is 'up to spec' is to gather a good (read: large) set of fueling data and analyze it to find a pattern.

I'm surprised that your Protege's insurance rate increased faster than your Accord. I wonder if it's due to a younger demographic among Protege owners, compared to Accord owners, and thus a higher liability?

Well, I hope you enjoy all the time you'll have with your Protege before moving onto something else!

protegenic

I know I have done my fair share in increasing the Protege's insurance rating. Only one major accident, plus one oops! (really, I don't want to talk about it).

As for mileage in my 99 ES 5sp. I kind of bounce all over between 26-32. My latest tank was around 26, but it was really all city driving. Plus with cheap gas, I find I hardly ever shift before 4K when accelerating from a stop. Then again, I hardly ever go over 5K.

elec3

When name brand gas here is still hovering around a dollar a gallon. You can't even get name brand bottled water that cheap and Evian won't get you anywhere except to the bathroom.

My insurance on the Pro5 is nearly $150 a month. I'm a 21 year old male and had a substantial single vehicle accident a year ago (about $5000 in damage, this was my B2300, not the Protege). Otherwise my driving record is spotless. My insurance also has pretty high levels of coverage and a $500 deductible. Considering this and what you guys have said you pay, I don't think I'm getting a terrible deal. I wish it was less, of course, but it could certainly be worse.

Still, makes me wonder if my next car (probably once I turn 25 and my insurance rates approach adult normal) may be cheaper to insure even if it's faster, more expensive, and newer than the Pro5.