Mazda Protegé

protege_fan

bean3422

I got this dealer to align my car at 10,000 miles...(the steering was never aligned since I bought it, but it took me that long to take it in). At that time, the alignment was covered for 12,000 miles. I have driven it 17,000 miles since then, so that is why they gave me problems. I should have kept an eye on the tires, but you would never notice the wear unless you bend down and stick your head under the car. I only noticed it because it finally started raining around here a couple weeks ago. I had not driven in rain (or snow) for so long I noticed that it was much squirellier? than usual. Then I bent down and checked the tires and that is when this all started. The dealer is completely in his rights to refuse to do anything, but I was really hoping that good customer service would kick in and I would at lease get the alignment for free. Especially since I did not specifically request it.

maltb

Did you get a copy of the repair order? The printout from the alignment machine should show specs before and after adjustment. Care to share any of that?

bean3422

I do have both...I will have to look up the old specs and I will share them both when I get a chance. I have not compared them, so that would be a good thing to do. Thanks.

gandalf17

My thoughts for what they are worth...

If you change your oil every 3,000km, it is most certainly overkill, but you are not harming your engine by doing so. Nothing bad can come of it.

Even most conventional non-synthetic oils have been so "over-engineered/formulated" that the viscosity and protection will last you well over 10,000 to 15,000km before wearing down under "normal" driving conditions. They have to be in order to meet the rigorous standards imposed before they can be used commercially in vehicles. Excessive towing and consistent high rpm can and does break down the oil quicker and in this case i would recommend oil changes for conventional oil at around 5,000km to 8,000km at minimum.

The choice of oil in your car should really depend on a combination of your climate, driving style and car/engine set-up. For instance, I have always used synthetic oil in my vehicles because I have always preferred high rpm, hyperactive engines and my driving style matches that. I live in a climate that is quite hot in summer, quite cold in winter and temperate at best the rest of the year. Most engine wear occurs during cold weather start-up. The engine in both our cars are 4cyl, DOHC in the Pro and a boxster set-up in the WRX. Both are high rpm output engines and the WRX has the turbo as well. Both of these engines place more strain on the oil than a moderate horsepower SOHC V6 or V8 and they generate substantially more rpm and heat to produce power. For the extra protection at start-up in cold and warm weather and at high rpm, I use synthetic 5W-50 since that affords my engine the best protection in all of these instances. My fuel economy suffers very, very slightly, but the added performance at high rpm and heat/viscosity protection at high rpm is worth it.

On the flip side would be someone like my father. He drives a big V8 powered Ford Expedition. He doesn't tow anything with it, only drives about 12,000km a year and does not drive aggressively or at a high rpm since it's an automatic and not configured or designed for high rpm driving. My father would realize very little advantage to using Synthetic oil for most of the life of his SUV. He would be more than fine using conventional oil and changing it every 5,000 to 8,000km. My mother and her automatic Accord would fall in the same category.

Now, if you drive say a, manual 5spd, Dodge Viper or 5spd V8 Mustang and you let the engine out, you should be on synthetic, hopefully 5W-50 and should change your oil every 5,000km - 8,000km.

It just depends on what is right for each person and their car considering a number of factors. The 3,000km to 5,000km must change oil slogan is nothing more than a wonderful marketing campaign by oil manufacturers and garages to get the consumer to spend more money. There have been no known advantages to changing your oil at these low intervals under normal driving conditions.

gandalf17

I'll let you know the new email as soon as I have it.

Mazdafun, you are right, the oil filter typically wears out much faster than the oil itself.

gandalf17

I once posted a similiar thing in the WRX board many moons ago because someone questioned the use and validity of 5W-50. For everyone's info. Obviously, this doesn't apply to just Castrol products.

-----Original Message-----
From: PowerCenter, Feedback [mailto:powercenter.feedback@cnacm.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 10:50 AM
To:
Subject: Response from Castrol your case number is

Thank you for contacting Castrol. We appreciate your interest in our products.
In response to your inquiry, Syntec 5W-50 provides the widest range of protection available. The 5W provides rapid oil circulation at start-up when most actual engine wear occurs and the 50 delivers a thicker high temperature oil film for ultimate wear and heat protection. Due to its wide range of protection, we at Castrol feel that this is the best grade for all vehicles. However, manufacturers recommend SAE 5W-30 motor oil to assist them in meeting Corporate Average Fuel Economy requirements. By encouraging the use of this grade, manufacturers can utilize 5W-30 in their testing to qualify vehicles for CAFE. A lower viscosity oil like 5W-30 will provide an incremental improvement in fuel economy (approximately 2%) during vehicle qualification.
Given this fact, if your Protégé is still under warranty, we recommend that you use Syntec 5W-30 year-round to avoid any potential issues with the dealership. If your Protégé is not under warranty, we recommend Syntec 5W-50 year-round. Once again, thank you for contacting us. We trust that the information provided is to your satisfaction. Please contact us if we can help again in the future.
Genevieve Hendrix
Reference:

rae52

Sorry, I mis-read your statement.

Since your car is eqipped w/ a tach, does it idle within factory specs?

Have a good day.

mdaffron

If the filter truly wears out more quickly than the oil, then that proves my point even further: My owner's manual doesn't recommend changing the oil filter as often as changing the oil, if I'm not mistaken!

Meade

vocus

That poor Protege! Some of the stuff just is a little over-stated and boy-racer. Ugh, hate it.

mdaffron

That IS the same "Tropic Emerald Metallic" paint I had on my '92 LX ... at least they left THAT the same.

(BTW, I really like the painted JCPenney gift boxes on the hood ...)

Meade

gandalf17

Sorry, refresh my memory, what point did you make? I wasn't addressing anything you said directly, just the topic itself.

When i say the filter wears out, that is perhaps a bad terminology. I should say that the filters become typically less effective than the oil over the same range of mileage. That is, the oil may still offer lots of lubrication and protection, but the filter's ability to clean the oil of accumulated debris is lessened by the same point.

Of course the manual tells you not to change the filter before the oil as this would obviously cause some oil run-off depending on the skill level of the person changing the oil. There isn't a manufacturer in the world who would recommend and therefore accept liability that someone take the chance of getting burned by hot oil or other things such as too low oil level after the change that could go wrong. I don't believe the manual recommends anyone perform any maintenance on their vehicles directly other than cleaning the paint of bird crap and such stuff. they "hint" at owners who will want to do their own maintenance, but they certainly don't encourage it.

vocus

I have always liked that color alot. Too bad Mazda still doesn't offer some sort of variation on the new Proteges.

mdaffron

What I'm saying is, in my 2000's manual, in the maintenance interval chart, it shows "R" for the oil at 7,500 miles (to replace it), but only "I" for the filter (as in "inspect" it.) I think the manual recommends changing the oil FILTER every 15,000 miles or something. Let me go home and check, but I remember something like this because I did a triple-take when I saw it!

Meade

gandalf17

Not sure if it's exactly the same colour, but i saw a new 2002 ES Protege at the self-car wash the other day. Very similiar colour to the picture.

AS for the picture...all i can do is laugh. That is just garish!!! Poor guy probably added about 100lbs on to his car, but it does look like he may have a turbo kit or NOS set-up. Would like to see that engine...

the_big_h

how appropriate...would you like some spring rolls with all that rice sir? LOL.
btw I can make that joke because I'm Chinese, anyone else it would've been bordering racist

mdaffron

It's my 2000 color that they still offer in 2002, Emerald Mica. Sure, it ain't teal, but it's dark green -- kinda close anyway. Teal was all the rage for a few years back around 1990. I remember seeing a lot of teal Crapaliers back then.

Meade

mdaffron

on that funky boxlike thing forward of the rear wheels?

Meade

gandalf17

Okay, I must have missed that comment in all my catch-up today. Too MANY posts.

Are you sure your manual says that? I'd be really surprised if it did. As i think Protege Fan (Mike) pointed out, here in Canada they change the oil and filter every 8,000km. Keeping the oil filter in and changing the oil doesn't make much sense because then you're contaminating new oil as it cycles through the filter. It does make more sense to change the filter and keep older oil in place and I know a few people who like to do this in older cars. The newer filter then starts to actively clean the particles in the oil. The ideal thing to do is just change both at the same time. This way you have a clean filter and clean oil at the start and through the interval.

the_big_h

that would've been the air vent to cool off the rear brake rotors (the new Z06 Corvette has these). But I'm almost certain those on the picture are just stupid empty boxes stuck on the sides.

and those HUGE nostrils on the hood probably don't really work either... probably running the 1.6L 96hp lawn mower, LOL...

btw the new color in 2002 that's similar to the one in the picture is called seabreeze.

mdaffron

That's why I was so astounded to see such a recommendation in the owner's manual. Let me go home tonight and grab my manual, which I have left inconveniently on my dresser in the bedroom, and check it out. I'll give a full report in the morning, as well as an impromptu review of whatever piece of junk I'm forced to drive while the Protege's in the shop tomorrow!

Meade

mdaffron

but my question was, what does that LOGO mean on that fake brake-cooler?

I bet any stock '92 Protege can outrun that thing too, with all that air-damming crap all over it! I bet those hood scoops do wonders in a headwind!

And know why that "Sport" logo is there on the side, behind the front wheel? To hide the "DX" logo, I'm sure!

Meade

the_big_h

what that logo on the rear 'vent' means. And no, I don't own the picture, I got the url from protegeclub.com.

I thought Town Hall rule is you can LINK copyrighted content (I highly doubt this picture is copyrighted), just can't SHOW the image on Town Hall...

gandalf17

Good luck too on your service. I hope it goes as well as my wife's Pro's 40,000km. Although what you're getting done is what she will need at 48,000km. I should probably phone now and see what crazy amount they want.....arrrgh.

vocus

I remembered after I had posted that last comment about the color not being available that they have that Seabreeze color now. But that color has too much green in it. I like the teal better. And back in the 1990s, the teal was all the rage. It was all about being environmentally friendly and all that crap. Gimme a crisp, bright white or bright, screaming red, yellow, or blue any day.

mdaffron

I'd be curious to see how much they do want for a similar service in Canada. Why don't you call them?

Meade

gandalf17

dinu01

What if you bring 2 Proteges for the same svc? Can they do it without taxes/significant discount? Ask.

I posted a "MadStylz" Edition of that PRo on Yahoo! with my comments next to it.

Dinu

dinu01

On the Protege board is pretty good, eh? Yeah baby! BTW, it stopped snowing and I wrote 5 pages already.

Dinu

mdaffron

"... on the Protege board is pretty good, eh?"

I really liked the "eh" part of the message -- nice touch, Bob! (Or is that Doug?)

Like, how's it goin' eh?

;-)

Meade

mdaffron

Just occurred to me ... those foglights above the bumper give the vehicle a distinct resemblance to a Citroen 2CV!

Meade

zoomzoom79

teal-ish green color. I think it's called seamist or something. I know that they made this color in 2001 not sure about 2002.

I change my oil every 6,000 miles using Synthetic. Never noticed any difference in engine performance as I near close to that level though. As soon as we get the 96 EX and the SI we are going to run some Syntec through their veins. In fact, I think we are going to run up and buy the 96 now.

gandalf17

Okay, i made a few quick phone calls and this is what I was quoted. Remember this is in Canadian dollars. Right now i think with the exchange, every US greenback is worth about $1.50 Canadian loonies. Yes, our dollar is called a loonie....
The SOW (Scope of Work) was the same for all of the places I phoned. Bear in mind that all Protege owners here are also given (or at least they were in 2000) a coupon book that gives a 10% or 15% discount on all parts during the various services. Our tax rate is 15%, so it cancels that portion out.

Morningside Mazda: $350.00 + taxes
Scarborough Mazda: $290.00 + taxes
Avante Mazda: $385.00 + taxes
North Toronto Mazda: $425.00 + taxes
Dave Wood Mazda Newmarket: $235.00 including taxes
Markham Mazda: $330-350.00 + taxes
Downtown Mazda: $485.00 + taxes

Gyro Mazda: $250.00 + taxes (However, please note that when i asked them for the price of the 48,000km service for the 5 spd. 2000 Protege LX this is what i got in sequence. I filled in the blanks... "Uh, yah, hold on a sec. Okay, sorry to keep you waiting. What year is your car, 2000, right? What size engine? Is it the 1.6L, 1.8L or the 2.0L? Okay, you have the 1.8L. Is that the SOHC or the DOHC?...."

I have written before about Gyro Mazda and their level of service they have demonstrated to a couple of friends of mine. This conversation only exemplified my feelings. I have to tell the service department what engine and valve configuration is in a 2000 LX Protege?? Do these people think I would let anyone near this car who doesn't already know that....geeeesh....
Every other dealer confirmed it was the LX and then noted 1.8L. They also asked whether it was an automatic or 5spd.

Anyway, Markham Mazda were the most detailed on the phone and made a point of telling me everything they would do without me having to ask. Dave Wood Mazda is out and North of the city and they were definately the cheapest and seemed the most up front and knowledgeable about the car without having to look things up. Morningside Mazda were the fastest and most efficient on the phone, but were not overly forthcoming or friendly. Downtown Mazda were rude and expensive. The rest didn't stand out in any particular way.

Dinu, sorry, i never had a chance to ask about the 2 for 1 special. I would think you could easily negotiate with the service department on that aspect...

protege_fan

Never saw any coupons for my '01 LX.
So if that's for the 48000 km (approx 2 year) mark, I'd better start saving now!

gandalf17

In 2000 they gave every new owner a service coupon booklet. The first oil change was free (synthetic not included). Then you typically get 10% of all parts used in the every 8,000km service afterwards. Note that labour does not get this 10% discount. A few of the major services give a 15% discount in the coupon book.

Chances are, your salesperson forgot to give this to you if they were still offering this in 2001. Next time you're at the dealer, you should say that you never received the service coupon booklet and see whether they give you one. Tell them your friend was given one by another dealer on his 2001 and see where that gets you....

chicagopro

Is it normal for the brakes to take just a teensy bit longer to engage after about 10,000 miles or so?

protege_fan

Huh? What's going on exactly?

maltb

Do you back up often? If so, do you use the brakes to stop before going forward? The brake adjuster(on the rear brakes) is activated by stopping in reverse. If you do it infrequently or not hard enough, you brakes never adjust.

if you have to, find an open lot and do some nice and heavy 15mph-0 stops in reverse. that should get them as tight as new.

chicagopro

Well, I back out of my parking spot every morning (and then usually do a 3-point turn on top of that)...

And yes, I brake before putting the car in D again...maybe I should just try braking harder.

It's not that serious...I've just noticed that when I'm coming to a stop sign or something, it seems to take a little longer for the brakes to kick in or whatever. Probably not explaining it right (hence, your confusion, Michael

Thanks!!

--Dale

protege_fan

I'm always confused... :P
So do you have to press further down on the brake pedal? Or after you've pressed the pedal, it takes longer for the actual braking action to start?
Or, does it take longer for you to brake a known distance at a certain speed?
How's that for confusing?

dinu01

is always a joke when it comes to service. Personally I've had a good experince with Scarboro so far (except that lost CD incident for which I got a tire rotation and an oil change (for $40 cash) and a promise that maybe, just maybe they'll find it). The salespeople at Scarboro wanted to sell me the car THEY thought I needed, not what I wanted, so I don;t think too much of them. But service is pretty good an VERY COMPETITIVE compared to what North T.O. charges.

Oil change
North T.O.> $56 (tax incl) These guys are funny
Scarboror> $34 (tax incl) These guys aren't

Moral of the story: Sometimes it's better not to be funny

Dinu

dinu01

That's pretty good for confusing Mike!

Dale: If the brake pedal is sinking in more than before it **usually** means that your brakes are a little worn. Mine had to be pushed further in after about 1000kms. That's b/c I don't ride the brakes. I don't touch them, except to brake (ie: I NEVER coast with them on).

Dale: You haven't enlightened us where your French Connection is from? (your flag)

Dinu

dinu01

"Like, how's it goin' eh?" That was a PURE 100% Canadian moment Meade!

Dinu

dinu01

That's $50 (was it $235?) cheaper than Scarboro Mazda. A little trip up north won't hurt the PRO. I live at Don Mills/Steeles, so if I hop on the 404 it's a quick 15 mins to Newmarket. So I think it's worth the drive to Acton, I mean Newmarket if you're not too busy. (You know that commercial rite?)

Dinu

zoomzoom79

in fact I think the Pro board would be the thing I missed most if I had to stop posting once I traded the Protege Well that and the 0.0%.

Well I have to add the Type-R sticker ... I've heard thats good for an extra 15HP. And the exhaust ... well I need to be able to hear the car run. It's kind of like an alarm in a way. And I HAVE to have a spoiler that extends at least 5 feet in the air because I want to be able to do pull-ups to pass the time while I am stuck in traffic. And I have to get the neon lights because I'm cool and cool people have neon lights under their car right?

Seriously I am going to leave it stock with the exception of the stereo. And eventually I plan on replacing the stock wheels. I like the Villains but I found out today that they have been discontinued. I have a set of useless Konig Tantrums in the garage that I would love to sell so I will try to E-bay them or maybe try to trade them in for some 4-lug Tantrums.

browntrout1

Howabout a round of the beerhunter? Bob and Doug rock. That reminds me, I havn't seen Strange brew in a long time.

Ok, going back. Thanks for the help with the speaker install stuff. I'm not sure if the child seat anchors are different on the Canadian Protege's. It doesn't look like the rear speaker deck will fit over them. I'll have to take a look at it when it stops snowing here!!!

chicagopro

Yeah, Dinu...it's kind of like what you said...sinking in a little. Kind of like your option B, Michael?

I'll try doing what Malt suggested and see if that does any good. Thanks for the replies!

And Dinu...my great-great-grandmother on my mom's side was from France.

gandalf17

Sounds just like a little wear. After 10,000 miles the front discs are probably a little more worn and this would definately require you to press the pedal a little further.

I'm assuming you drive an automatic? I say this only because the brakes typically don't last as long since you can't slow the car down by manually regulating gears.

Anyway, i wouldn't worry about it. Sounds totally normal. If you start to hear any squealing while applying the brakes, or feel a bad pulsing in the pedal (provided you don't have ABS) you should definately take the car in immediately. Squealing would mean the brakes are almost completely worn and the pulsing could mean warped rotors. other than that, happy Zoom, zooming.

chicagopro

Yeah, AT with ABS...but I know what THAT feels like, trust me. And no squealing yet.

I do pretty heavy city driving...lots of stop and go, etc. Had a feeling it was normal wear, but just wanted to make sure.

Thanks!

--Dale

gandalf17

Malt....yes, didn't your geography teacher explain how the time zones change incrementally in both longitude and latitude? *LOL* what do they teach you folk DOWN there?