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Mazda Protegé

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Comments

  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Have a little backbone! I've used a hole saw to put a 3/4-inch HOLE in the center of every trunk of every car I've owned for the past 10 years -- including my 2000 ES -- for an amateur radio antenna! And believe it or not, never, ever have I had any dealer even ask about it during the trade-in process! (Well, I DO leave the antenna's base -- flush with the trunk lid -- in the hole when I trade. I don't think they'd like a hole big enough to stick your thumb into in the trunk lid! I guess they just assume it's a cellular antenna mount.)

    A couple of my pics in my photos folder at Edmunds (and especially in the Dunlop Tires folder) show the antenna very well. Professional installation, huh? I'm proud of it. Plus I have the VHF radio mounted IN the dash, up in that CD and other stuff bin under the ashtray. Took the whole center console (from under the dash to the armrest between the front seats) out one day to do it -- THAT was a whole-Saturday job, let me assure you!

    Meade
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    I've just read through 116 posts! Sheeesh!

    Same old same old...when are we going to help ZZ79 find the exit ramp? As Bush said, "Enough is Enough!"

    As much as all of you like high speeds, lots of torque, etc. there are those who never venture above 4000rpm or so. Only 6% of my driving is highway in a year! That means 94% is on boulevards with posted speed limits of 45mph and city streets posted at 35mph. The Pro is ideal for this kind of driving and offers enough reserve to scoot out of the way of SUV drivers hogging the lanes, and Civic drivers making left turns from the far right lanes.

    In the year (7 more days) I have owned the Pro I can't complain about anything -- it's a FINE small car that meets my needs.

    fowler3
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    I don't think the WRX handles better than the Pro ES or Pro5. In the MT comparo, I believe the P5 handled better than the WRX. An ES with a strut tower bar handles better than the P5 because it's lighter and the rear strut towers are braced. AWD doesn't really benefit handling in dry conditions anyway.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    In looking at the pic of your car that I so graciously have posted on the YAHOO (OK Hank?) homepage ;-), it occurred to me ...

    They're still not requiring front license plates in NC? Tell me -- does your front bumper have two little holes in it? Or do they drill those holes only in the bumpers of cars heading to states where front plates are required?

    Just wondering.

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    Here in Calgary we don't require front plates and there are 4 tiny "divets" in my front bumper (not clean through the bumper).
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Actually, there in Calgary, I think you have four tiny 'divots' in your front bumper.

    Sorry, couldn't resist :P

    --Dale
  • I put them on my 2000 Protege. They look pretty decent. I got just plain orange ones which look good with the midnight blue color of the car. They don't stick out much neither, maybe 1/4 of an inch. Along with the clear corner signal lamps, it really gives the car a more european look to it. I think the lamps are only 30 or 40 bucks so if you hate the orange ones, it's worth while getting the clear ones.
  • rbrooks3rbrooks3 Posts: 174
    I just called the dealer to find out if the Pro was ready for pick up. The service manager said he was "just about to call me" and he had good news and OK news. Funny how whenever you call someone, they were always "just about to call you". The good news is the Pro is ready to be picked-up. But, the cruise control still is not fixed. He said the diagnostic machine said there was no gound to the unit. Mazda said they were not to attempt to ground anything....The OK news is, ready for this?... REPLACE THE ENTIRE WIRING HARNESS!

    Sort of smacks to me like the dentist saying, ouch, sorry sir, you've got your first cavity there...I'll fit you for some dentures now.

    It took weeks to get a cruise control unit, I have no idea how long it will take to get a complete wiring harnes for an '02.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Had little red lights in his windshield washer squirters on his hood! They were downright cool!

    Meade
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    If there's a ground problem somewhere in that harness, gosh only knows what kind of problems could be awaiting you down the road -- in or out of warranty. I'm a firm believer in "let 'em replace the whole darned thing" (as long as they're replacing it with THEIR money, that is!) so you can rest assured your car isn't hiding any smoking guns!

    Meade
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    That smacks of being souped up, but in less friendly terms!! I see those on many civics and integras here in Calgary...'nuff said.
  • dsm6dsm6 Posts: 813
    Well, it is a trade off of how fast you can get air in and out of the engine. Not enough restriction, and it may move through during valve overlap without completely burning. Too much restriction, and the engine gets a bit starved for air/fuel. The former effect is an issue at low rpm, the later effect at high rpm. If your intake and exhaust create very little back pressure, you may loose torque at low end due to the former, but may gain at high as you are able to get more fuel/air in when there is little time anyway between exhaust and intake strokes. You can, of course, have too much restriction/back pressure as well, effectively starving the engine at all/low revs.

    It is a balancing act. Some cars, as I'm sure you've seen, even use dual stage induction and exhaust systems to balance these effects. Engineers often try to balance induction and exhaust to get the desired torque curve - hopefully as flat as possible given the engine characteristics. Did Mazda do this? I don't know. From looking at the intake, it sure seems restrictive to me due to packaging concerns, not any torque curve issues, but I don't really know. I'm just a car geek, not an engineer.

    As far as what a short ram-air intake will do? I bet the effect to low-rpm torque is minimal, but don't really know for sure. As I said, the stock intake sure looks restrictive to me, with all of its turns and long length. I'm guessing it is on the "too restrictive" side, far from being not restrictive enough, so I'm guessing minimal change from freeing it up "a bit" (ie. not alot) - but that's just a guess from a car geek - not an engineer. Conventional wisdom also says that most stock systems are too restrictive on both sides, so freeing them up "some" is good at low and high rpm.

    Does that help?
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Actually somebody (JASON) was talking about that at chat a couple of weeks ago...I'd never seen it before until the other night.

    Kind of made the hood look like a tiny landing strip for tiny aliens.

    And of course, no offense to anyone who is a tiny alien, or whose friends are tiny aliens, or..... :)

    --Dale
  • rbrooks3rbrooks3 Posts: 174
    The only good thing is that since the car is only 3 months old, if there are future problems with it, I'm still early enough in the warranty that they should pop up while I'm covered.
  • vocusvocus Posts: 7,777
    That really does suck that they have to order the whole wiring harness. You should be glad though, because if there is a problem they are going to nip in the bud when the car is new. Like you said about the warranty and all.
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Posts: 348
    It is not my attempt to open up any sort of debate, but to address your comment, let me assure you that the WRX does indeed out-handle an ES Protege or a Protege 5. As is stated, the difference is not as significant as most would think, but trust me, there is a difference.

    Also, you stated that AWD does not help in dry weather traction. That is incorrect. The AWD system in the 5spd. WRX compensates for wheel spin by tansferring powering to the various tires under various driving conditions. It is not a simple 4WD system.

    To explain it best, I'll quote Edmunds directly..."There are actually two different all-wheel-drive systems used in the WRX, depending on the transmission. Cars equipped with the optional four-speed automatic get Subaru's Variable Torque Distribution (VTD) all-wheel-drive system, its most advanced system ever offered. It employs an electronically controlled hydraulic transfer clutch and a planetary gear center differential to distribute power in a 45/55 split between the front and rear axles.

    The VTD system uses multiple sensors to measure front-and-rear driveshaft speeds, throttle position and gear selection. Then it actively transfers power accordingly between the front and rear wheels for optimum traction and handling. Enter a turn under braking, and the system will bias the power toward the front for greater steering control. Lay on the throttle out of a turn, and the VTD will send the torque out back for maximum thrust; all of this done in a matter of milliseconds completely imperceptible to the driver.

    Our WRX test car was equipped with the five-speed manual that gets a slightly less sophisticated, but no less capable continuous all-wheel-drive system. This setup uses a bevel gear center differential and a limited-slip viscous coupling that splits torque 50/50 to the front and rear axles. The system is pretty straightforward, if the front wheels begin to slip, additional power is routed to the rear and vice versa.

    After putting this system through its paces on a rainy Southern California afternoon, we can tell you that Subaru's claims of imperceptibility with this system are valid. Despite tight hairpin turns, gobs of throttle and freshly drenched roads, we never managed to break the WRX free from its roadway death grip. It's a unique driving experience that few vehicles can offer, and frankly, after nearly two hours of flogging the car through a heavy downpour, we were hooked."

    Anyway, my earlier point, to which you commented, was that I am impressed with the Protege because of it's phenomenal handling characteristics. It simply does not handle as well as the WRX, but it does get damn close. That fact alone is superlative in a car that is FWD and priced the way it is....

    P.S.- as a side note, my wife and I own both the 2000 ES Protege and the WRX. I drive both quite frequently. I should hope that I am somewhat qualified to offer my opinion and assessment, on each car's handling merits and characteristics. At least....I hope so. :)
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Posts: 348
    it's just where they decided to put the power. That's all there is to it.

    P.S.- I commented on the powerband difference between the 1.8L and 2.0L long before you and ZZ started on it. Place the power in the high rpm range and you have a more Hondo like engine. What I don't say, which both of you do, is that the 2.0L is a bad engine. It's not. That kind of statement is silly. It just has a different useable powerband. It happens not to be my preference, but so what....Now enough.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    "Also, you stated that AWD does not help in dry weather traction. That is incorrect."

    I didn't say that, a magazine did, so they must be incorrect.. It was either the new MT or the new R&T. I'll find out. I believe the P5 out-slalomed the WRX also.
  • fxashunfxashun Posts: 747
    Just to have a 4 wheel drive car. With lotsa power. In the test MT did with the p5 the Matrix out slolamed both the WRX and the P5. With an axle for rear suspension.
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Posts: 348
    My misinterpretation then. I thought you said directly that AWD does not help in dry weather. I didn't realize you were quoting from the article.

    I haven't read the artcile, but based on some of these comments from Motor Trend, I have a really difficult time with it's credibility.

    I'll leave it at that. I don't really wish to discuss the WRX and my intent is not to do so here, so i apologize to everyone for the long post.
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    Yeah, an axle doesn't really hurt slalom performance as long as the course is smooth. One of the best handling cars MT ever tested was a solid axle fox body mustang (with suspension mods of course). It did something like 70 mph in the slalom and pulled 1.09 G on the skidpad. Not bad for a chassis out the 70's with minimal mods done huh?
  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    I did say that directly, I should have made it more clear that I read it from a magazine. I'm not knockin the WRX, it is THE best bang for the buck out there even though it's $25K.
  • gandalf17gandalf17 Posts: 348
    no worries mate, i know you weren't knocking it. Even if you were, you're entitled. Just clarifying my thoughts, that's all.

    Thanks,
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    helps when you start uping the power. Lets say on a magical car that is exactly the same and offers both 2WD and AWD versions. At a certain point, if your engine is powerfull enough, under hard acceleration you'll exceed the traction of your two tires and start producing expensive smoke. With that same amount of power, divided amoung 4 wheels instead of 2, you could put down more power to the ground before you start lighting them up. Of course there will be some trade offs with driveline loss and weight. But when you start getting into more powerfull engines, AWD is a good way to get the power down.

    ...but in the types of cars that I buy, I prefer FWD because it represents the best compromise for me.
  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    I happen to like AWD but its not without faults. I had a VR-4 in 1995 and we have a Outback Limited now. Granted the VR-4 was more of a GT car and the Outback is more of a family truckster they span a good bit of the AWD spectrm. Before the VR-4 I had a Mustang GT which covers some of the RWD arena. My current daily driver is an 01 Protege ES which covers some of the FWD range.

    Hits:
    1) Launches. Find 4500rpm and drop clutch and floor it. Do that in a Mustang and you can watch your tires melt. Do that in a FWD car like a Saab Viggen and you will learn all about torque steer and why I hate it. One of the most amazing things about the WRX is that it can chirp the tires even with its AWD traction!!!!
    2) Bad weather benefits. Starting in slippery conditions and going up hills.
    3) Some AWD cars have "natural" balance.

    Misses:
    1) Cost. Cost more to start and to maintain and repair.
    2) Weight. They add about 200-300lbs. All mechanical systems add more than the part times systems.
    3) Fuel economy hit. Approximately 1-2mpg.
    4) Not as much fun as RWD.

    I dont think that AWD cars do any better on dry than RWD or FWD cars in the hand of a amature like me. So would the WRX be more fun as a RWD car? Probably would in dry conditions. It would be 300lbs lighter which would certainly make it faster and there would be less inertia to fight in the turns. Then again launches would be more difficult and it would take away from the rally racer charm of the car.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Posts: 1,722
    yes forgot to mention cost. Although the lower fuel economy is a by-product of the extra weight and driveline loss, yes fuel economy is something that FWD has over AWD.

    By the way, the general buying public probably wouldn't find tail-out behavior a benifit of RWD! But I know what your saying.
  • shriqueshrique Posts: 338
    Has anyone driven a 325 lately with all the stability controls? I was test driving one and I was in an ICE parking lot and I tried (really hard) to make it spin out. I couldn't do it until I locked up the e-brake. Even then if I added some gas the SCS could kick in and stop the car from fish tailing. I was quite amazed. The IS300 did the same thing. It was a little less refined in how it executed (more jerking) but it did the job nicely. I suppose I would have bought a RWD if it could be found in small car anyway but I was very impressed.

    It's really hard to find a good budget priced RWD car. The mustang and Miata is as close as you can get and they aren't that practical for most people. (sigh)
  • grimmacegrimmace Posts: 1
    My wife has a 2000 Proto ES 5-spd which is due for it's scheduled 30k service. We live in Phoenix, the epitome of severe driving conditions with dry, dusty, hot weather, and stop-and-go traffic. Our dealership is quoting us $425 for the scheduled service. Schedule includes oil and filter, air filter, new plugs, new fuel filter, drain/refill all fluids, etc...the rest is "inspect this, inspect that, etc...". I'm wondering what kinds of prices others have paid for this service because I feel the dealership is gouging customers a bit. They are really the only Mazda dealer in town. $425 for scheduled service seems awfully high to me for an entry-level car, after all ! Perhaps someone else knows a dealership in the Phoenix area ?
  • protege_fanprotege_fan Posts: 2,405
    I believe Meade (mdaffron) just had his 30k tune-up done as well...can't remember what he paid, but he said it was well worth it. His is also a 2000 ES 5-speed.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    See post #10414 for Meade's description and cost of his 30K maintenance service...about $262. Seems like you're getting hosed.

    Maybe Speedypt (who used to live in Phoenix, and also has a 2000 ES, although I don't think it's a 5-speed) might have another idea about service in the area.

    Pete!

    Where are you??

    --Dale
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    on figuring out a 'fair' cost for the maintenance, grimmace, is actually in the Ownership section of Edmunds. Once you're in the Ownership section, click on the 'Maintenance Schedule' link on the right column. Enter your car's spec into the pop-window and submit, and Edmunds will pull up a maintenance schedule that's based on MANUFACTURER'S recommendation.

    A lot of time the dealership will try to put in a lot of other garbage in 'their' maintenance package to really rob money from you. ONLY DO THE MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDED MAINTENANCE. no need for anything else.

    Ask from your local dealer a checklist of their 30k maintenance schedule, and cross out the ones that are NOT in the manufacturer's list.

    Hopefully that'll shave off some $$ off that maintenance cost....
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    You are better off asking the dealer how much it will cost to perform the 30k as the manual suggests. Give the dealer the list of items you want otherwise you will get their "value added" service. That is also why you need to be cautious when comparing the price of a 30k service with that of another dealer. Be sure to match the service item for item.
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    we know that Hank types much faster than I do.
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    A shame really.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Hey, dude...it's nice to see you posting again lately after being away for so long. Did anybody ever answer your question about the cat-back exhaust?

    For the most part, we're all still friendly. Okay, a couple of people get a little testy at times, but we're always at liberty to ignore them.

    :)

    --Dale
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    Negative on the catback
  • alternatoralternator IndianaPosts: 628
    if the factory radio/CD player in my 2002 Pro LX is behaving normally or not. After a CD has played completely through, the darn thing starts playing again from the beginning of track 1.

    I do not have it in "repeat" mode. I have tried it on several different brands of CDs. And I would almost swear that the first few CDs I played stopped after playing through once. And any CD player I ever had before this always stopped after playing through once.

    Help please!
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Don't have my manual handy, so I'm not sure what it's *supposed* to do, but my 2000 ES always repeats CD's.
  • maltbmaltb Posts: 3,572
    All my vehicle CD players have done it that way. Even when I had Kenwood and Sony aftermarket units.
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    See post #10414 for Meade's description and cost of his 30K maintenance service...about $262. Seems like you're getting hosed.

    I think Meade paid the $262 after telling them to leave off certain parts of the service. Their original price was higher.

    Looks like I have 3.5 more years to go before hitting 30K miles. Gives me time to save up that $400. Zoom Zoom slowly. :)

    fowler3
  • alternatoralternator IndianaPosts: 628
    I knew Mahler's 2nd Symphony was very long, but after listening to it for three or four days in a row, I started to believe I might be hearing some repetition!
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    You guys who drive 85mph most of the time, do you remember anything you saw along the way, besides the road ahead and other cars?

    fowler3

    P.S. I saw a used Lexus IS-300 for sale the other day. Yellow with black leather trim 2001, asking $27,800. Not my kind of car. That goofy-looking speedo is the pits. The Pro is nicer looking.
  • fowler3fowler3 Posts: 1,919
    I wondered what a Pro owner would have to pay in difference to trade for one Honda's or Toyota's high fuel economy models. Would it be worth it? Near as I can figure it, it would take over 20 years to break even, or to realize any savings. That's figuring gas at $2.00 a gallon.

    fowler3
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    yes my 00's cd player auto repeats at the end of the disc :)
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    can you repeat your cat-back question? with all the mudslinging going on lately a lot of REAL questions get lost in all the, um, mud :)
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    Yeah. I've heard the term tossed around here from time to time and all I THINK I know is that its somehow related to the exhaust. Beyond that I don't have a clue. Another term I've seen here is LSD and I'm sure its not in reference to the hallucinogen. Thanks.
  • chicagoprochicagopro Posts: 1,009
    Mahler's second is nice, of course, but the first is my fav....and it's shorter, making it easier to tell when it's repeating :) :)

    --Dale
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    cat-back is an exhaust system that replaces the piping and the muffler AFTER the CATalytic converter, thus the name CAT-BACK exhaust system. Or just cat-back for short. Cat-backs generally improves exhaust flow over stock exhaust, which theoretically increases horsepower.

    LSD stands for Limited Slip Differential, which is used to improve traction when a wheel slips. Howstuffworks.com has a full article on how differential works, including LSD. They can explain better than I ever can, here's the URL:

    http://www.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm

    any more questions?
  • yooper53yooper53 Posts: 286
    Thanks. Appreciate it.
    Cat-back sounds like it might be kind of pricey for little or just theoretical gain. Does it sound better? Lord knows the 2.0L doesn't rank high in that area. Took some getting used to early on after 6 years with Furd's sweet sounding 2.5L Duratec.

    LSD sounds like what was once referred to as Posi-traction (back in the Mesozoic era. :o)) Is there a difference?
  • the_big_hthe_big_h Posts: 1,583
    well cat-back by itself won't do you any good, usually the people that have a cat-back for their Protege also modifies the intake by installing a cold air intake or a short ram intake. Basically the idea is to allow our naturally aspirated engine to breathe better, thus generating more power (maybe 5-10hp)

    and yes it does sound A LOT better than the stock exhaust. There this one guy I met at the autocross that had a Bosal cat-back installed on his 99 DX, and let me tell you, it sounds GOOD for a 4 cylinder, a nice and low growling sound. Obviously nothing compared to a V8, but very good for a 4 cyl.
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