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Comments
My argument was that if the reimbursement was 1.5% of invoice, that's not profit. The dealer sells the car at 1.5% under invoice. The reimbursement only brings it back to invoice.
Another way to look at it is that if you consider the reimbursement profit, then you need to consider the fact that the dealer sells the car at a loss initially.
$24,149 CAD on the road
and not a penny more
I live in Toronto - this is the best price: I called 5-6 dealers and North Toronto Mazda came through for me...every one else wanted a few hundred bucks more....I guess they only made about $300-$500 on the deal, given the low financing rates (The dealer claims they eat some of that low financing cost).
Anyways...go but the car - spring for the GT package: those tires MAKE the car! Seriously!
Don't you agree that the dealer lost money initial on the deal? The dealer paid $17,021. S-Plan is $16,766 or $255 less than invoice. He gets the holdback ($311) and the admin. fee.
Dealer profit with the doc fees (we agree that it's bogus) is -$255+$311+admin. fee(??)+$329.
Dealer profit without doc fees is -$255+$311+admin. fee(??).
Civic engines are cast aluminum and have VVT to squeeze a little more power from a basic economy engine. It works, but the engine screams getting up to speed with not much difference.
Hard acceleration should NOT be done in the first 1000 miles, at least. Higher mileage would be much better for engine durability.
The 2.0 should get 26mpg around town.Hard pressed don't count on that though. It’s very easy to ruin a small engine and 4-speed AT. Then you hear stories about certain cars having bad automatics. They don’t, they had abusive drivers.
fowler3
Me, my wife and the salesman went for a drive in a '01 ES with auto the other day, and I felt like it had adequate power for a 4 cyl. auto, even with the a/c on. My advice would be to take another adult with you on a warm day (so you can try it with the a/c on, as sometimes with 4 cyl engines the power drain is noticeable to some people). Again, to me it was not significant. Also, the auto has an overdrive lockout, which allows you to drive it around town as a 3 speed auto, preventing it from dropping down to low rpms which the auto would try to do if you don't lock the overdrive out. The thing that impresses me the most about the car is the handling with the brakes on the ES a close second. I also have recently driven several BMW's, and while the Protege is obviously no BMW, for a $17,000 car, I think it is amazing how well it does handle.
hkchan,
I stand corrected. Sorry that it's taken me so long to understand, but now I do. Assuming the dealer paid invoice for the car, the dealer would only be breaking even with the 1.5% of invoice reimbursement by Mazda on the S plan. But the 2% holdback should still apply ($311), assuming the car is sold right away and the dealer doesn't have to pay any finance charges on the car (which would be the case with me, as I hope to order one and pick it up the day or two after it arrives). So it is a bit less profit than I originally thought. Whatever the administrative fee is would help somewhat, I suppose. But an important point is that the S plan is voluntary, so it's not like there's a gun to the dealership's head to sell it at that amount, and as has been previously stated, no doc fees or packs are allowed per Mazda's policy, so the dealer knows exactly what the deal is going to be before giving the green light. I have called 3 other area dealers besides the one I took the test drive at, and all the salespeople I talked to immediately stated that they did participate. I really think if you're interested in a Ford or Mazda and are eligible, you'd be a fool not to take advantage of it.
So did you ask the other three dealers whether there're any addition fees or packs? I assume you'll go with one of them. Again, I suggest standing firm and not giving in to the pressure to pay any bogus fees. Sounds like you have plenty of dealers to choose from, unless you need the car tomorrow.
If you pick up a copy of the Consumer Reports Buyers' Guide, you will see the Mazda Protege on a list of recommended used cars, for all years. They are good cars, just as good as Honda and Toyota IMO. Only they have more personality. So, there are no years to avoid, because NONE of them have Ford transmissions in them.
I am working on my second Protege now, a 2001 ES 2.0 model. I used to have a 1999 DX model, and decided to upgrade for the power and features. Loved both cars alot. Two of the best I have owned. The first was driven 37,400 hard miles (I tend to ZOOM it alot) and still never broke. This one has exactly 4900 miles on it now, and no problems to report but a little squeak in the driver's seat.
fowler3
I remember someone here had a 2001 ES with the 6-disc changer installed already. Who was that? Just curious. How much was it on the price sticker when the car was new or when it was installed? Thanks!
One school of thought seems to be the "don't go over 55 mph for 500 miles," another is the "don't push the engine hard for 1000 miles."
Anyone have any thoughts? Is there a Mazda-recommended break-in method for the Pro?
Yes, it's in the owner's manual, which unfortunately I don't have.
You need to get yourself an owner's manual. While you're at it, pick up the car too.
Caroline,
Per the owner's manual, 600 miles:
Don't Race the engine;
Don't drive a constant speed for a long time;
Don't drive contantly at full throttle or high RPMs for an extended period of time;
Avoid unnecessary hard stops; and
Avoid full throttle starts.
I guess that means after 600 miles the car if fully capable of being road raced.
peregrine_11,
As you can see, the recommendations are general in nature. And definitely brake hard in an emergency stituation. You don't want to get into an accident that could've been avoided just because you wanted to baby the car.
Negotiated a GREAT deal (I hope!) on the mudguards, cargo net, and oil filters. Mudguards were $37/pair; cargo net was $34; and bought two Mazda oil filters ($7.30 each...ouch!!) and got one FREE!!! ($4.87 each after free one!!!); I just showed my selling dealer a competitor's coupon ad/flyer and he matched it and then some.... By the way... there is only about a 22% mark-up on most accessories according to my dealer... Sound right guys???
MARTIN
thanks
Zooomming with a noticable rattle/buzz in the morning...but SMILING none the less
MARTIN
(1) What are insurance rates like on the ES?
(2) Can one get a good deal (well below MSRP) on these, or are they in short supply, as sporty imports often are?
(3) Any idea of the likelihood of theft? I don't see a lot of "slammed" Proteges. I don't want another car that the import-car hot rodders are going to covet. The Si was a great car but I loathed the unwanted subculture that came with it.
Can a person drive a Protege ES and be left alone?
Thanks in advance for any tips you may have!
Caroline:
The 55mph/500miles is a minimum, common sense dictates that it should be longer. The engine is always tight when new and you want the rings to be seated good before doing hard driving. This prevents burning oil later on, when you see blue smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe. After 1000 miles they should be seated.
Hard braking puts grooves in the discs.
Hard acceleration may cause a rod to come loose in a new engine. :<
If you are in a hurry leave earlier! Enjoy the ride!
Kurt:
You will be in good company with other Protegé owners and have a heck of a lot more fun. Everything about the Pro is better.
Martin:
My first oil/filter change is free. :P
I bought the cassette player and installation was $40. What a relief, I was afraid it would be like those Honda dealers...installing a map light $99.00. Hate to think what they charge for installing a CD player, the CD player alone costs $600. Fog lights $500. They think they are BMW dealers. LOL
fowler3
fowler3
Oh, did I mention how much I love this car?
Regards,
Mark.
I am 31, male, married and have a clean driving record (although someone did rear-end me last summer when I was stopped at a red light...I was ticked!).
You can try changing your coverage limits to alter your insurance cost too. You might try increasing the deductible. You can also consider dropping comprehensive/collision, but then you'll be paying out of your own pocket if your Pro gets damaged or stolen. You might also try for a bulk discount by lumping your automotive insurance with any other type of insurance you buy.
Other things that help are anti-theft systems, garaging at night, short commutes etc. Good luck.
Here's what I see as the main differences:
Pro ES: 4 doors, don't have to hunt as high for torque, more-comfortable seating position (for me anyway). The 2001s are supposed to have more responsive and beefier suspensions than the 99s. If that's the case, it'll be one great ride. Also, maintenance (both labor and parts) is less expensive.
Civic Si: 2 doors for those who believe 4 doors is a sign of aging (not true!), lower seating position for those who like it that way, more HP, higher MPG if you take it easy, due to the VTEC design (but that's not why you'd buy this type of car!).
Also, is it true that Mazda is going for the narrow headlights that Chrysler made the mistake of putting onto their vehicles a few years back? I don't mind the look, but I like my headlights to actually be useful at night. Maybe they'll put in projector-beam HID systems? Wouldn't that be cool?
MARTIN