btw, for those of you having a hard time finding rams...my local dealership here in aberdeen sd must have about 50 of em...but only a couple regular cabs...
Well, I've begun doing my initial test drives. No, haven't driven the 2002 RAM 1500 yet.
Stopped at the dealer where we bought our Avolon looking for a Tundra Access. None in stock. In fact, they only had one Tunda in stock.
I did get to drive a new 2002 Tacoma 4x4. At $28,000 this would be in my price range. A very, very well put together vehicle. Smooth engine. It felt like it would have a broader torque curve from my seat-of-the pants test drive. EPA rating of 14 city, 21 highway with the 3.4 engine. Has a manually controlled "traction lock," which locks both rear wheels.
Not sure about total comfort although I had no complaints driving it around some mixed suburban roads. It handles great. Very tight turning radius, moderate steering wheel input (just like our Avalon), braking was smooth.
The ride might be too stiff for long haul driving. This version had the off-road package with stiffer shocks. Don't need them in my opinion. Cabin is...well, let's say personal, like my Sentra. It doesn't feel cramped, but you know its not spacious either. I think Toyota has done an excellent job of arranging the interior to produce as much usable space in the alloted container that they had to work with.
The rear seat, however, was not very congenial to adult bulk. I'm 5'7" and my head just scraped the headliner. My kids wouldn't have a problem now, but as they advance in age they will not feel very comfortable, I'm sure. My seven-year-old is already the tallest kid in his class. The salesman said that there is actually more rear seat room in the Tacoma 4-door than there is in the Tundra (!?!).
I don't think I can get my ATV loaded into the bed and keep the tailgate closed. That probably disappoints me the most about this model.
I'm supposed to meet the Ford salesman tomorrow for a F150 test drive. He's arranged to bring in a 4-door Lariat in two-wheel drive from another store.
A good friend of the family who operates a auto repair center wants me to drive a F150 thats a few years old before I decide. He's appalled that I would consider a Ford product. He says they "really loosen up in a few years."
Of course, he's pretty much a GM guy so I think I know what's going on here. Still, it may not be a bad idea.
The gray (or is it 'grey'?) 2002 RAM 1500 at the Dodge dealer has been sold. I might have to try a different dealer. I wanted to try a 4-door Dakota but they didn't have a one in stock.
Anyone priced one in the last few days? SE TX dealers would sell at invoice last week. Had one offer me a 4dr 4X4 1500 at $200 below invoice today. Good price or not? Chevrolet 1500's can be had at invoice also. Good price on the Chevies?
In all honesty I haven't tested the market here in Rochester, NY for Dodge yet. My immediate Dodge Dealer has sold five of his seven 2002s in just over two weeks. We haven't talked price yet. I hope to get a test drive in a few days, but all that seems to be around at the moment are 4WDs. I'm looking for a 2WD. The closest Dodge dealer is low on 2001s, especially Dakotas which are very popular around here.
My Ford dealer seems anxious. His stock is spotty. He has a number of F150 conventional cabs, but few of the 4-door versions. He has a lot of 2001 Super Duty's.
I didn't count them, but the Chevy dealer seems to have a full street row of of Silverados. I haven't paid much attention to them because Chevy isn't on my list.
The nearest Toyota dealer only had one Tundra, a 2001 conventional cab, V6.
Everybody around here is offering big time deals, even Toyota had 0% on Tundra, although I don't know why. Nissan, too.
I got a call a little while ago from a broker. Anybody ever dealt with a broker before? I guess he'll do all the leg work in finding the best deal on anything I'd want. He gets a flat fee, which I think is $200. What do you think?
I'm going to do this while everything is still fresh in my mind. I've driven the 2002 RAM 4-door and two F150 Super Crews. So here are my impressions. (2002 Dodge Quad SLT, 4.7 engine, 45RFE transmission, trailer towing, limited slip, SLT package.) (2002 Ford F150 Lariat(1), 5.4 engine, auto, trailer towing, limited slip, and 2002 Ford XLT (2), 4.6 engine, auto.)
It's about 25F in Rochester, New York today, probably even colder here by lake Ontario. The first thing I noticed about the Dodge is how well it started. Better than our 1999 Toyota Avalon has ever started! It seemed like it fired within a couple of hundred nanoseconds, despite being dead cold.
The two F150s started very, very well, but not quite as quick, in my opinion. The 4.6 seemed almost as quick as the Dodge. The 5.4 was different in this respect. Still, good by anybody's standards.
I drove the Dodge off immediately after start-up. I did this intentionally to see how much lag was in the transmission (a sign of low pump pressure). Despite not feeling it go into gear, it took right off without a hint of hesitation. The Fords were the equal in this area, however the 5.4 transmission engagement is definite and pronounced.
Both the Ford 4.6, 5.4 and the Dodge 4.7 ran exceptionally smooth. Unlike more recent 318 RAMs I've driven, the 4.7 didn't seem to launch with the same feeling of power. However, this 4.7 seems to have a wider torque band since it seemed more responsive at higher speeds. The Ford 4.6 is not the equivalent to the Dodge as far as low or mid-range power, in my opinion. The 5.4 was noticeably more responsive, especially in the 45-60mph range. However, I would rate the Dodge 4.7 not far behind the 5.4 Ford. There was a big difference in full throttle response. The 4.7 Dodge comes immediately to life. Full throttle downshifts were crisp. The 4.6 Ford above 50 did not kick down for me a couple of times. It seemed like I had to mash the pedal right into the carpet in order to get a downshift. The 5.4 was better in this respect, but still not as responsive as the RAM.
The F150s are spacious in the front. The Lariat had leather interior, a material I have no appreciation for. Comparatively to the RAM and the Lariat, the XLT has the better seats. They are more plush and more comfortable. In the rear the Ford definitely has the edge, in fact, a superior edge. The rear seats are more reclined, thickly padded like the fronts, and offers more room for rear passengers.
The RAMs driver's position is very spacious and the cabin seemed more airy compared to the F150s. There is a noticeably better driver's view as well. The seats are better than the average truck, better by a margin compared to a Silverado. They are somewhat firmer and I was comfortable all during my 19 mile trip. There is much more drivers room in the RAM. Taller people than myself might find the difference between Ford and Dodge to be worth something. At 5'7" I wish the rear seating had more room in the Dodge, however.
The RAM had next to no perceptible engine noise at low speeds and the cabin was completely tight, the only real noise being a pronounced exhaust note. Over bumps you could tell that the frame was extremely rigid and there was no hint of body shutter. There was an amazing absence of tire noise. I did detect some wind noise that appeared to be coming from the "A" pillars. It wasn't very pronounced.
Both F150s were very quiet as well, but not as quiet as the RAM. Engine noise was noticeable, but not objectionable. There was a hint of wind noise but I could not tell from where. What bothered me the most was an occasional druming sound from the dash on both F150s over broken pavement and tar strips. The XLT had a rattle low in the instrument panel as well as the driver's door. The Lariat had a buzz in the "A" pillar area. On the same road that I had driven the Dodge, I noticed on de-acceleration a hint of body shutter.
Handling. This is a tough one. Both the F150s and the RAM handle great, just differently. The F150 seems to have a slightly better low speed response and turning rate. The RAM seemed a little slower in the parking lot. At speeds over 15mph, the RAM has an almost sports car like response. This was even more noticeable at highway speeds. In the RAM there is a complete absence of the need to feed input into the steering wheel. I think you could hold a course all day without ever having to make a hint of a correction. At highway speeds the F150s seem a tad numb. Both offered about the same road input.
As far as ride I'd have to rate them as dead equals. On the road they are both smooth and compliant. Both absorbed various size pavement aberrations quietly and transmitted little harshness to the passengers. Pothole noise may be just a tad more noticeable in the Fords.
Fit and finish was excellent on the Dodge. I looked at four RAM Quads while I was there and would have to give them all a perfect score of 100 for assembly quality. The paint work, which has been criticized on past RAMs, was almost show car finish on the examples I saw. Very impressive. The only thing I could criticize on the RAM was what I thought was a slightly -- very slightly -- cheesy carpet material. Material wise, everything else seemed first rate.
The two F150s I inspected had flawed paint. Both had a significant amount of orange peel just above the taillights. Low on the driver's door of the XLT the paint was thin. The dash materials seem cheaper, and a panel just to the right of the steering column was loose fitting. Closing the cup holder produced a little 'ting' sound in the dash.
Driving impressions of the Dodge and Ford are both favorable. This is a tough call.
While we think of the '94+ Ram styling as being bold, it's aged well over the years. The 2002 Ram seems a bit overstyled, but again maybe because the old one was well balanced. But, no reason for nostaligia. Out with old, in with the new. No question the new one is an improvement, 4 disc brakes, and I like those...what are they? 20 inch wheels? They look great. Inside, I've always liked the Dodge seat, and always disliked the styling of the instrument panel and dashboard. If it was me, I'd have to go with this updated Ram over the by now, long in tooth F150. I suspect the new F150, whenever it is due, will be worth the wait. But not for me. Silverado HD. The Truck!
interesting reading, dusty. i would agree with most of your observations. you didn't say whether you drove 2wd or 4wd models. where i live, you don't even think about getting anything other than a 4wd. it would be interesting to see how the 4.7l handles the weight of a 4x4. when i went for my test drive a couple months ago, my local dealership didn't have any 4.7l 4x4. they only seem to order the 5.9l with 4wd. probably a good idea, but i wanted to test out the new motor/new tranny combo. anyway, i know the 4.6l ford 4x4 is doggy compared to the 5.4l and barely gets better mileage. dodge would have been in the running for me if the hemi had materialzized and the rear seat were more accomodating...
btw, imo, leather rules...especially the untreated saddle leather that graces the interior of the king ranch f150.
All of them were 2-wheel drive and that's what I'm looking for. Yes, there would be times when a 4x4 would be nice, especially during hunting season in the Southern Tier where I own my property. But I do not consider it essential. You are paying for the increased cost of additional power-robbing drive line friction and weight for every linear foot the truck moves. A limited-slip axle will suit my purposes. I think you said you're in South Dakota and there I would probably have a different mind set about 4x4.
I'm not even interested in the bigger V8s since the vast majority of my vehicles use will be moving people, not cargo. I have an appreciation for the power, don't get me wrong. But I have a little more practical character that drives me to consider long term cost. I (we) usually keep our vehicles 10 years or more. With the exception of our current Chevy, all of our cars and trucks were over 100,000 miles when we passed them on.
As to the comment about the F150 being "long-in-the-tooth," I couldn't disagree more. The F150 is probably the most overall competent truck on the market today. I have the occasional displeasure of riding in Silverados and have on more than one occasion driven one. There is no doubt in my mind that the F150 of a few years ago is more than twice the truck of the new Chevy. And I think the new RAM could darn well be the F150s equal. With the noisy interiors, abysmal assembly quality and extremely poor reliability, the Chevy and GMC counterpart are the only vehicles on my list to completely avoid.
>With the noisy interiors, abysmal assembly quality and extremely poor reliability, the Chevy and GMC counterpart are the only vehicles on my list to completely avoid.<
my dad has owned three new gm trucks over the last decade and each of them was fine overall except for one area. it seems gm has a problem trying to figure out how to eliminate interior rattles. all three of my dad's trucks starting rattling rather early in their existence. therefore i found it kinda odd what your gm buddy said about fords loosening up...
I think he was referring to the truck's overall, not just interiors. He claims that front-end components, steering, driveline, bodywork, etc. I don't think he was being specific to interiors.
as far as fords loosening up...i can't really relate much. i haven't had mine long enough, but i sure don't remember ever hearing that from anybody else. guess i'll find out as i plan to keep the current truck for quite some time.
I grew up in South Dakota (Vermillion - USD grad- BS 1980 MBA 1984 - Go Coyotes!) Too bad I could'nt find a decent job - I would still be there. What part of the state do you live in?
Growing up in SD is the main reason I still drive a 4X4 (even though I live in Houston now). I put on the Autotrac when it rains, but only needed 4X4 2 times in the last 10 years -
Alas, my 10 year old Dakota was due for a replacement .............. just had to buy the RAM. My Dakota still is tight and runs very well with 92K on the odometer. RAM Sticker was 28,618 (ouch) but I paid 25,214 ($200 under dealer invoice) with 0% and 7yr/100k warranty thrown in. Seriously looked at Tundra, but interior was very cheesy for a 27K truck. Tundra drove great and was smaller, but the 3rd door is kind of a pain since you have to open front door first to access the rear area. Also not a lot of room back there. Access to controls is a stretch in the Toyota, and seats have no adjustment other than seat back angle. 4 speed tranny only and no rear disc brakes either. The RAM is huge, and at first I was worried that it would drive like a Kenworth. Not to worry. On the road it's manners are very "small car" and the turning radius is a big surprise for how huge this thing is. Easy to drive--mind you I just came out of an 2001 Acura CL Type S, which my wife now happily drives to work. Still new so I'll reserve my initial quality impressions until I rack up some miles. Can say that this thing is very tight and smooth, and Mercedes definitely had a hand in ergonomics and mechanicals. Just look under the hood and see how the cooling systems are laid out and sit in one to see how smooth all the controls operate.
I talked to two 2002 Dodge RAM 1500 Quad Cab 4x4 owners today. Both said they've hit the 17 MPG mark, one at 1600 miles and the other at 2200 miles. One fellow said he's averaging a steady 16.5 back and forth to work, the other said high 13s around town.
Both had high praise for the 4.7 engine with the new 45RFE transmission. One had traded a 2000 Silverado 6.1 and the other a 2001 RAM 360 V8 and both felt the 4.7 engine was equal to their previous trucks.
Just starting to see some 2002 RAMs on the road. We saw 4 today.
My apologies to those of you who have already read this post in other forums but I'm just scanning the 2002/1500 sites for the first time and have found this one to be more active.
Hello all. First visit to this site and I'm looking for feedback on the 2002 Dodge 1500. Saltysack, bc01cls, Magilla and others, I would appreciate a listing of exactly what you bought, discussion of the merits of various engine, trans, options etc. Quad-cab v. standard and so on. I am seriously considering buying a Ram 1500 which will be my first pick-up truck. This will be used as a third vehicle, light-duty (no towing) used by my multiple kids coming up as new drivers and me occasionally for odd-jobs. Given this use, my first inclination is to buy a "stripper" as cheap as possible. I have other vehicles for people-moving and driving fast so, as attractive as a deluxe Q-Cab looks, I don't think I really need it. So, after looking at the Auto show, checking out various web sites and reviews, I'm getting serious enough to tromp off to a dealer and test drive. I am leaning toward a basic Regular cab, vinyl interior, manual transmission....maybe 4.7 V-8 short bed. As much as I'd like to have a Sport with all the goodies and 20" tires, I'm trying really hard to keep the "new-car-fever" to a minimum and spend under $20K instead of $35K. Input from you 2002 owners is greatly appreciated.
I would be happy to give you my first months impressions. I own a 2002 1500 ST reg cab,2wd, 4.7 V-8, auto. I paid $16,400 plus TTL. It has just under 1,500 miles. I love the truck. So far everything is perfect. No rattles, squeaks, or mechanical problems. Mileage is 15-16mpg with mixed driving. Truck feels very solid, the ride is quiet, steering is good, brakes are good, with just enough exhaust noise to remind you that you are driving a truck. I like the way it looks although some of my friends do not. The power is plenty for me, both from a stand still and at 40-50 mph. Test drive one, and take it on a freeway, and along a bumpy road. I recommend the 4.7. Mileage is better and the power is comparable. Good luck.
Great price! You apparently paid below invoice. Good job on a new model intro. I am looking at trucks close in spec to yours. I have decided on the 4.7L as I want the newer tech engine. I would appreciate your comments on the following:
Auto vs. manual trans Did you go with vinyl interior? How do you like it vs. cloth? Did you get the limited slip diff? If not, why do you think it is not a must have option in a truck?
Indydriver, I picked auto because the wife hates shifting gears. I never saw a vinyl interior while looking. I like the cloth, although it's entry level cloth. The seats seem very well put together. The biggest selling point for me was the center arm rest. It's huge. I would love to have a limited slip, but I did not find it as an option on many base model trucks. Plus here in the Phoenix area the weather doesn't require limited slip. My truck was an ad vehicle. The salesman said the trucks were flying off the lot, so I had better buy quickly. I liked my dearler and salesman, but the truth appeared to be that sales were slow. Three weeks before buying I found three trucks that I liked. On the day I bought, all three were still there. I still do not see very many new Dodges on the road. I think the engine choices have a lot to do with it. However, the 4.7 for a 2wd reg cab is very quick. Let me know how it's going.
.....I don't believe vinyl seats are offered in the Dodge RAM.
Penrose....of the RAM 1500 Quad Cabs that I've looked at, I'd say better than half had a limited slip differential. Of course, we're in snow country. A good portion of these 2002's also have the trailer towing option. Of the F150 Super Crews that I have looked at, none had limited slip and only two had the trailer towing package.
By the way, on the F150 you don't get the auxilary transmission cooler with trailer towing, I just found out.
Myself, I don't find the looks of the new RAM 1500 anywhere near appealing as the previous style. Dodge is apparently carrying over the same 2001 in anything over 1/2 ton. Looks aren't that important to me, anyway.
Over the holidays we noticed four or five on the road around here. Judging from what I've observed from the two Dodge dealers I visited, Dakota and Durango units were moving much better than 2002 RAM, although both dealers were sold out of 2001 RAMs. Still, they just started to get 2002 RAMs in this area. My local dealer had sold the first three he got in less than a week.
Regarding styling, of course its totally subjective so your opinion has as much weight as anyones. I kind of like it and I'm not a "truck-guy" (at least not yet!). But at the auto show this week, I noticed a distinct rip-off by both Ford and Chevy of the "peterbilt" lines of the Dodge. Both had distinct raised portions of the hood that weren't there in previous versions. I think the sales leaders have noticed and are worried about number 3!
....Yep. You're correct. Just noticed it in the 2002 RAM brochure. Funny thing though, I've looked at a couple of Sports and I'm certain they had the cloth seats. I guess they must have been extra equipment.
And I agree as to style and looks. At the moment I'd say the Tundra is the overall better looking truck at the moment, and the F150 is second. I remember when the last generation RAM was introduced, I thought they were the ugliest thing around. I now think they are the best looking. Still. Same for the Ford, but now I like the looks. Sometimes it takes a while to grow on you.
I noticed that a small manufacturing firm just up the road from my office has just gotten two new RAM 1500 conventional cabs. This may sound funny to you, but when it comes to the 2002 RAM, I think the four-door version is actually more appealing aesthetically than the conventional cab.
I do like the grill on the Sport model better than the chrome SLT.
I replaced my 2000 Dakota Quad with the new Ram Quad. The truck is much better all the way around from the paint to the ride. The gas mileage is better haven't been back to the dealer for anything. My Dakota which was built in the US was back 4 times in the first three months. I guess being built on Wednesday and in Saltillo Mexico makes it better then on Monday in Michigan. I would not have gotten another Dodge if DC didn't buy my Dakota back but the Ram changed my mind in the first three months.
The Sport options are only available on SLT and SLT+ which both start with cloth as standard equip. As you can see in the brochure, options are very limited on the ST and I suspect most dealers won't order them for stock as they will be lower profit margins for them. I walked my first dealer lot yesterday and that Sport sure is gorgeous, especially with the 20" wheels. I agree with you that the monochromatic treatment on the Sport grill is more aesthetically pleasing that the chrome of the ST or SLT. Stop tempting me! I'm trying really, really hard to keep this one under $20K since my kids will be primary drivers, not me.
The dealers around here seem to have a disproportional amount of Quad Cabs with the Image Group (20" wheels). My neighborhood dealer has one in black that's extremely appealing, I must say. The red and dark garnet red are nice, too. But the black one is kind of...well...sexy.
My oldest son says I'd look real good in it, but plastic surgery is still probably cheaper!!!
Let's see, I could buy a QC Sport with all the goodies. Yeah, that's the ticket....I'll hide the extra 15 grand in cost from wifey....she'll never notice. Let the kids drive the 300M and I'll have the baddest truck in town. Yeah, now we're talking.
Oh......excuse me......fell asleep there for a moment....was having a great dream.....
Bought a 2002 Ram 2WD and am not able to find any matching snow tires for the stock 245/70/17.Dodge doesnot want to here about it.Called costomer service no. 4 times and was given the run around.According to Michelin these are the only tires made in this size, and there are no snows available.I live in New England and get snow 6 months a year.Anyone else run into this problem?
I am seriously considering the manual transmission which comes with a real plain-jane shift knob on it. Anybody know if Mopar (or anyone else for that matter)makes a custom shift knob that fits the 2002? Also, I would be interested in an extension of the shift lever.
Any way - do you plan to put the snow tires on the stock wheels or do you plan on putting the snow tires on a second set of wheels?
245 75 16 tires are almost the exact same size as 245 70 17. Not sure 16 wheels will fit the new Ram but this could solve your problem (if you plan on getting wheels for the snow tires)
confirmed that DC is extending the 7/100 drivetrain promotion through 3/31. I asked when Dodge was going to match the General's 2002 promo and he smiled and shrugged his shoulders.
Small point of correction: tire selection is matched to vehicle trim and 4x2 v. 4x4, not by whether or not its a QC. This is straight from the brochure:
4x2 ST = P245/70R17 BSW all season SLT= P265/70R17 BSW all season SLT+=P265/70R17 OWL all season
4x4 same as above but on/off road tires with all P265's OWL LT275/70R17 OWL all terrain optional on SLT, SLT+
I have noticed from walking one dealer lot (so this may not be the case across the board) that the P245 all seasons on the ST's are Michelins and everything else is Goodyear.
On the tires I am going by my window sticker from D/C. the sticker on the door has the smaller tires size which is P245. But on the Optional Equipment I have the P265. Which are Goodyear
I still need more info. I love the look of the 2002 Ram Quad Cab, but I guess one of those people who gets impressed by the hp numbers the Chevy 5.3l puts out. Reading the posts has opened my eyes to the other details besides hp. In 2000 when I looking for a car to replace my almost dead 96 Contour, the Town Hall postings were very helpful. I ended up with a 2000 Grand Prix GT (wish there was a "P" on the end). Now I want a truck. Up until the beginning of the year I was leaning heavily towards the Silverado, but I hear more "I like my truck, BUT" with the Chevy's than the Dodges. So my questions are: 1. How good is the 4.7l engine (as far as at speed acceleration). 2. The 5.7l Hemi I'm hearing about. Is this engine really being built, will they put it in the Ram QC, & gas mileage of the Hemi compared to the Silverado Ext Cab 5.3l. #3. Does a bed cover, K&N filter, & exhaust really help gas mileage? #4. What are some good tactics to dealing with dealerships. You all (in general)were helpful when I was car shopping as I stated earlier. Oh yeah, the RAM QC I fell in the love with Is a Silver on, with the 20" wheels. The only chrome on the truck are the wheels. It is beautilful. Thanks in advance for all your help.
Go to http://www.car-truck.com to read all about the Hemi engine. Its been delayed and will introduced when the 2500/3500 are upgraded to 2002 1500 chassis/body in 2003. Don't know about mileage yet. Your engine choice should be guided by your intended use and the model you end up with. The larger and heavier the truck you buy, the larger, torquier engine you need. Be careful to look at torque/RPM ratings not HP. If you buy a 4x4 Quad Cab and intend to tow anything, you probably need to outfit it with the largest, highest torque rated engine available. I intend to buy a 4x2 regular cab and do no towing so I'm quite confident I will be happy with the 4.7L. BTW, if you want a torquey V-8, better buy it soon because they're moving towards regulating them out of existance in the next 5-10 years.
As far as "dealing with dealerships", visit once or twice to establish yourself as a serious buyer. Time is your best ally....they are the one's in a hurry to do a deal, not you. Wait to see what Dodge does to respond to GM's 2002 rebate...they'll eventually match it. Get your money set up in advance so you can truthfully tell the salesman that you'll pay "cash" or your financing is already arranged. Once they understand you're serious tell them, "here's the deal. I'm going to buy a truck with exactly these options. I'll order from the factory if necessary, I'm in no hurry. I'm going to pay invoice less any incentives. If you aren't interested, I understand, but I know I will find a willing dealer in this town who needs to move a unit at this price." I have used this for every domestic vehicle I've ever purchased and it always works. The dealer makes at least 3% (you have to let them make something) and you get about 10% off the sticker.
If you really need a doze of metalic C19 H28 O2 (testoserone), a friend of mine who is a fleet manager with a local company was telling me that he saw a 500hp x 500 lbs torque 2002 RAM 1500 in Chicago (I think it was) that Dodge will make available later this year. I think he said it will have an all alumininum engine.
Thanks for the advice. It'll be my first truck & I'm sure I'll be very happy. Thanks for responding also dustyk. It will be a moment before I seriously go for the truck, but I'll let you all know what happens. Again Thanks!!!
The only thing missing is AWD. With that kind of power, you need to apply it to all four wheels. GMC did that a few years ago to their small turbo pickup and SUV.
My company has a 2001 GMC Denali with the big V-8 in the fleet. It has 325 HP and 360 ft./lbs. coupled to full-time 4 wheel drive. That 5,000lb. black cat gets up and jumps! The FT4WD really makes a difference in handling confidence on wet roads with a vehicle that big.
I saw that Motor Trend named the Chevy Avalanche Truck of the Year over the Dodge Ram 1500, but another mag dedicated to trucks named the Ram 1500 with 20" Sport package the "Sport Truck of the Year" over the competition which included the Avalanche. The tested Ram was a 4x2 with the 4.7L and a manual trans. They commented that it was a little short on power but they appreciated their ability to go get the power at higher rev's with the stick. First really good picture I've seen of the interior of a regular cab with a stick. Pretty much obliterates the middle seat.
Comments
Stopped at the dealer where we bought our Avolon looking for a Tundra Access. None in stock. In fact, they only had one Tunda in stock.
I did get to drive a new 2002 Tacoma 4x4. At $28,000 this would be in my price range. A very, very well put together vehicle. Smooth engine. It felt like it would have a broader torque curve from my seat-of-the pants test drive. EPA rating of 14 city, 21 highway with the 3.4 engine. Has a manually controlled "traction lock," which locks both rear wheels.
Not sure about total comfort although I had no complaints driving it around some mixed suburban roads. It handles great. Very tight turning radius, moderate steering wheel input (just like our Avalon), braking was smooth.
The ride might be too stiff for long haul driving. This version had the off-road package with stiffer shocks. Don't need them in my opinion. Cabin is...well, let's say personal, like my Sentra. It doesn't feel cramped, but you know its not spacious either. I think Toyota has done an excellent job of arranging the interior to produce as much usable space in the alloted container that they had to work with.
The rear seat, however, was not very congenial to adult bulk. I'm 5'7" and my head just scraped the headliner. My kids wouldn't have a problem now, but as they advance in age they will not feel very comfortable, I'm sure. My seven-year-old is already the tallest kid in his class. The salesman said that there is actually more rear seat room in the Tacoma 4-door than there is in the Tundra (!?!).
I don't think I can get my ATV loaded into the bed and keep the tailgate closed. That probably disappoints me the most about this model.
I'm supposed to meet the Ford salesman tomorrow for a F150 test drive. He's arranged to bring in a 4-door Lariat in two-wheel drive from another store.
A good friend of the family who operates a auto repair center wants me to drive a F150 thats a few years old before I decide. He's appalled that I would consider a Ford product. He says they "really loosen up in a few years."
Of course, he's pretty much a GM guy so I think I know what's going on here. Still, it may not be a bad idea.
The gray (or is it 'grey'?) 2002 RAM 1500 at the Dodge dealer has been sold. I might have to try a different dealer. I wanted to try a 4-door Dakota but they didn't have a one in stock.
Dusty
In all honesty I haven't tested the market here in Rochester, NY for Dodge yet. My immediate Dodge Dealer has sold five of his seven 2002s in just over two weeks. We haven't talked price yet. I hope to get a test drive in a few days, but all that seems to be around at the moment are 4WDs. I'm looking for a 2WD. The closest Dodge dealer is low on 2001s, especially Dakotas which are very popular around here.
My Ford dealer seems anxious. His stock is spotty. He has a number of F150 conventional cabs, but few of the 4-door versions. He has a lot of 2001 Super Duty's.
I didn't count them, but the Chevy dealer seems to have a full street row of of Silverados. I haven't paid much attention to them because Chevy isn't on my list.
The nearest Toyota dealer only had one Tundra, a 2001 conventional cab, V6.
Everybody around here is offering big time deals, even Toyota had 0% on Tundra, although I don't know why. Nissan, too.
I got a call a little while ago from a broker. Anybody ever dealt with a broker before? I guess he'll do all the leg work in finding the best deal on anything I'd want. He gets a flat fee, which I think is $200. What do you think?
Dusty
It's about 25F in Rochester, New York today, probably even colder here by lake Ontario. The first thing I noticed about the Dodge is how well it started. Better than our 1999 Toyota Avalon has ever started! It seemed like it fired within a couple of hundred nanoseconds, despite being dead cold.
The two F150s started very, very well, but not quite as quick, in my opinion. The 4.6 seemed almost as quick as the Dodge. The 5.4 was different in this respect. Still, good by anybody's standards.
I drove the Dodge off immediately after start-up. I did this intentionally to see how much lag was in the transmission (a sign of low pump pressure). Despite not feeling it go into gear, it took right off without a hint of hesitation. The Fords were the equal in this area, however the 5.4 transmission engagement is definite and pronounced.
Both the Ford 4.6, 5.4 and the Dodge 4.7 ran exceptionally smooth. Unlike more recent 318 RAMs I've driven, the 4.7 didn't seem to launch with the same feeling of power. However, this 4.7 seems to have a wider torque band since it seemed more responsive at higher speeds. The Ford 4.6 is not the equivalent to the Dodge as far as low or mid-range power, in my opinion. The 5.4 was noticeably more responsive, especially in the 45-60mph range. However, I would rate the Dodge 4.7 not far behind the 5.4 Ford. There was a big difference in full throttle response. The 4.7 Dodge comes immediately to life. Full throttle downshifts were crisp. The 4.6 Ford above 50 did not kick down for me a couple of times. It seemed like I had to mash the pedal right into the carpet in order to get a downshift. The 5.4 was better in this respect, but still not as responsive as the RAM.
The F150s are spacious in the front. The Lariat had leather interior, a material I have no appreciation for. Comparatively to the RAM and the Lariat, the XLT has the better seats. They are more plush and more comfortable. In the rear the Ford definitely has the edge, in fact, a superior edge. The rear seats are more reclined, thickly padded like the fronts, and offers more room for rear passengers.
The RAMs driver's position is very spacious and the cabin seemed more airy compared to the F150s. There is a noticeably better driver's view as well. The seats are better than the average truck, better by a margin compared to a Silverado. They are somewhat firmer and I was comfortable all during my 19 mile trip. There is much more drivers room in the RAM. Taller people than myself might find the difference between Ford and Dodge to be worth something. At 5'7" I wish the rear seating had more room in the Dodge, however.
The RAM had next to no perceptible engine noise at low speeds and the cabin was completely tight, the only real noise being a pronounced exhaust note. Over bumps you could tell that the frame was extremely rigid and there was no hint of body shutter. There was an amazing absence of tire noise. I did detect some wind noise that appeared to be coming from the "A" pillars. It wasn't very pronounced.
Both F150s were very quiet as well, but not as quiet as the RAM. Engine noise was noticeable, but not objectionable. There was a hint of wind noise but I could not tell from where. What bothered me the most was an occasional druming sound from the dash on both F150s over broken pavement and tar strips. The XLT had a rattle low in the instrument panel as well as the driver's door. The Lariat had a buzz in the "A" pillar area. On the same road that I had driven the Dodge, I noticed on de-acceleration a hint of body shutter.
Handling. This is a tough one. Both the F150s and the RAM handle great, just differently. The F150 seems to have a slightly better low speed response and turning rate. The RAM seemed a little slower in the parking lot. At speeds over 15mph, the RAM has an almost sports car like response. This was even more noticeable at highway speeds. In the RAM there is a complete absence of the need to feed input into the steering wheel. I think you could hold a course all day without ever having to make a hint of a correction. At highway speeds the F150s seem a tad numb. Both offered about the same road input.
As far as ride I'd have to rate them as dead equals. On the road they are both smooth and compliant. Both absorbed various size pavement aberrations quietly and transmitted little harshness to the passengers. Pothole noise may be just a tad more noticeable in the Fords.
Fit and finish was excellent on the Dodge. I looked at four RAM Quads while I was there and would have to give them all a perfect score of 100 for assembly quality. The paint work, which has been criticized on past RAMs, was almost show car finish on the examples I saw. Very impressive. The only thing I could criticize on the RAM was what I thought was a slightly -- very slightly -- cheesy carpet material. Material wise, everything else seemed first rate.
The two F150s I inspected had flawed paint. Both had a significant amount of orange peel just above the taillights. Low on the driver's door of the XLT the paint was thin. The dash materials seem cheaper, and a panel just to the right of the steering column was loose fitting. Closing the cup holder produced a little 'ting' sound in the dash.
Driving impressions of the Dodge and Ford are both favorable. This is a tough call.
btw, imo, leather rules...especially the untreated saddle leather that graces the interior of the king ranch f150.
All of them were 2-wheel drive and that's what I'm looking for. Yes, there would be times when a 4x4 would be nice, especially during hunting season in the Southern Tier where I own my property. But I do not consider it essential. You are paying for the increased cost of additional power-robbing drive line friction and weight for every linear foot the truck moves. A limited-slip axle will suit my purposes. I think you said you're in South Dakota and there I would probably have a different mind set about 4x4.
I'm not even interested in the bigger V8s since the vast majority of my vehicles use will be moving people, not cargo. I have an appreciation for the power, don't get me wrong. But I have a little more practical character that drives me to consider long term cost. I (we) usually keep our vehicles 10 years or more. With the exception of our current Chevy, all of our cars and trucks were over 100,000 miles when we passed them on.
As to the comment about the F150 being "long-in-the-tooth," I couldn't disagree more. The F150 is probably the most overall competent truck on the market today. I have the occasional displeasure of riding in Silverados and have on more than one occasion driven one. There is no doubt in my mind that the F150 of a few years ago is more than twice the truck of the new Chevy. And I think the new RAM could darn well be the F150s equal. With the noisy interiors, abysmal assembly quality and extremely poor reliability, the Chevy and GMC counterpart are the only vehicles on my list to completely avoid.
Dusty
"Past General Motors employee." 'Nuff said. LOL!
my dad has owned three new gm trucks over the last decade and each of them was fine overall except for one area. it seems gm has a problem trying to figure out how to eliminate interior rattles. all three of my dad's trucks starting rattling rather early in their existence. therefore i found it kinda odd what your gm buddy said about fords loosening up...
I think he was referring to the truck's overall, not just interiors. He claims that front-end components, steering, driveline, bodywork, etc. I don't think he was being specific to interiors.
What's the weather been like in South Dakota?
Dusty
as far as fords loosening up...i can't really relate much. i haven't had mine long enough, but i sure don't remember ever hearing that from anybody else. guess i'll find out as i plan to keep the current truck for quite some time.
Growing up in SD is the main reason I still drive a 4X4 (even though I live in Houston now). I put on the Autotrac when it rains, but only needed 4X4 2 times in the last 10 years -
i live in the cold northeast part of the state...aberdeen to be specific.
Both had high praise for the 4.7 engine with the new 45RFE transmission. One had traded a 2000 Silverado 6.1 and the other a 2001 RAM 360 V8 and both felt the 4.7 engine was equal to their previous trucks.
Just starting to see some 2002 RAMs on the road. We saw 4 today.
Dusty
you better hurry up...the extended powertrain warranty ends 12-31!!!
Nope. Haven't made up my mind yet. And anyways, I need to wait until April or later.
Cold snap hit here today. No snow, but it appears to be in the forecast. Buffalo to the west has received two feet in some areas.
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Dusty
Hello all. First visit to this site and I'm looking for feedback on the 2002 Dodge 1500. Saltysack, bc01cls, Magilla and others, I would appreciate a listing of exactly what you bought, discussion of the merits of various engine, trans, options etc. Quad-cab v. standard and so on. I am seriously considering buying a Ram 1500 which will be my first pick-up truck. This will be used as a third vehicle, light-duty (no towing) used by my multiple kids coming up as new drivers and me occasionally for odd-jobs. Given this use, my first inclination is to buy a "stripper" as cheap as possible. I have other vehicles for people-moving and driving fast so, as attractive as a deluxe Q-Cab looks, I don't think I really need it. So, after looking at the Auto show, checking out various web sites and reviews, I'm getting serious enough to tromp off to a dealer and test drive. I am leaning toward a basic Regular cab, vinyl interior, manual transmission....maybe 4.7 V-8 short bed. As much as I'd like to have a Sport with all the goodies and 20" tires, I'm trying really hard to keep the "new-car-fever" to a minimum and spend under $20K instead of $35K. Input from you 2002 owners is greatly appreciated.
Auto vs. manual trans
Did you go with vinyl interior? How do you like it vs. cloth?
Did you get the limited slip diff? If not, why do you think it is not a must have option in a truck?
Penrose....of the RAM 1500 Quad Cabs that I've looked at, I'd say better than half had a limited slip differential. Of course, we're in snow country. A good portion of these 2002's also have the trailer towing option. Of the F150 Super Crews that I have looked at, none had limited slip and only two had the trailer towing package.
By the way, on the F150 you don't get the auxilary transmission cooler with trailer towing, I just found out.
Myself, I don't find the looks of the new RAM 1500 anywhere near appealing as the previous style. Dodge is apparently carrying over the same 2001 in anything over 1/2 ton. Looks aren't that important to me, anyway.
Over the holidays we noticed four or five on the road around here. Judging from what I've observed from the two Dodge dealers I visited, Dakota and Durango units were moving much better than 2002 RAM, although both dealers were sold out of 2001 RAMs. Still, they just started to get 2002 RAMs in this area. My local dealer had sold the first three he got in less than a week.
Regards,
Dusty
Regarding styling, of course its totally subjective so your opinion has as much weight as anyones. I kind of like it and I'm not a "truck-guy" (at least not yet!). But at the auto show this week, I noticed a distinct rip-off by both Ford and Chevy of the "peterbilt" lines of the Dodge. Both had distinct raised portions of the hood that weren't there in previous versions. I think the sales leaders have noticed and are worried about number 3!
if you opt for the 5.4l ford engine, you get axilliary tranny cooling...
And I agree as to style and looks. At the moment I'd say the Tundra is the overall better looking truck at the moment, and the F150 is second. I remember when the last generation RAM was introduced, I thought they were the ugliest thing around. I now think they are the best looking. Still. Same for the Ford, but now I like the looks. Sometimes it takes a while to grow on you.
I noticed that a small manufacturing firm just up the road from my office has just gotten two new RAM 1500 conventional cabs. This may sound funny to you, but when it comes to the 2002 RAM, I think the four-door version is actually more appealing aesthetically than the conventional cab.
I do like the grill on the Sport model better than the chrome SLT.
Dusty
My oldest son says I'd look real good in it, but plastic surgery is still probably cheaper!!!
Dusty
Oh......excuse me......fell asleep there for a moment....was having a great dream.....
Also, I would be interested in an extension of the shift lever.
Any way - do you plan to put the snow tires on the stock wheels or do you plan on putting the snow tires on a second set of wheels?
245 75 16 tires are almost the exact same size as 245 70 17. Not sure 16 wheels will fit the new Ram but this could solve your problem (if you plan on getting wheels for the snow tires)
4x2
ST = P245/70R17 BSW all season
SLT= P265/70R17 BSW all season
SLT+=P265/70R17 OWL all season
4x4
same as above but on/off road tires with all P265's OWL
LT275/70R17 OWL all terrain optional on SLT, SLT+
and the 20 inchers:
P275/55R20 BSW Performance (4x2)
P275/60R20 BSW on/off road (4x4)
I have noticed from walking one dealer lot (so this may not be the case across the board) that the P245 all seasons on the ST's are Michelins and everything else is Goodyear.
As far as "dealing with dealerships", visit once or twice to establish yourself as a serious buyer. Time is your best ally....they are the one's in a hurry to do a deal, not you. Wait to see what Dodge does to respond to GM's 2002 rebate...they'll eventually match it. Get your money set up in advance so you can truthfully tell the salesman that you'll pay "cash" or your financing is already arranged. Once they understand you're serious tell them, "here's the deal. I'm going to buy a truck with exactly these options. I'll order from the factory if necessary, I'm in no hurry. I'm going to pay invoice less any incentives. If you aren't interested, I understand, but I know I will find a willing dealer in this town who needs to move a unit at this price." I have used this for every domestic vehicle I've ever purchased and it always works. The dealer makes at least 3% (you have to let them make something) and you get about 10% off the sticker.
Dusty
Bob