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Comments
Stopped at the dealer where we bought our Avolon looking for a Tundra Access. None in stock. In fact, they only had one Tunda in stock.
I did get to drive a new 2002 Tacoma 4x4. At $28,000 this would be in my price range. A very, very well put together vehicle. Smooth engine. It felt like it would have a broader torque curve from my seat-of-the pants test drive. EPA rating of 14 city, 21 highway with the 3.4 engine. Has a manually controlled "traction lock," which locks both rear wheels.
Not sure about total comfort although I had no complaints driving it around some mixed suburban roads. It handles great. Very tight turning radius, moderate steering wheel input (just like our Avalon), braking was smooth.
The ride might be too stiff for long haul driving. This version had the off-road package with stiffer shocks. Don't need them in my opinion. Cabin is...well, let's say personal, like my Sentra. It doesn't feel cramped, but you know its not spacious either. I think Toyota has done an excellent job of arranging the interior to produce as much usable space in the alloted container that they had to work with.
The rear seat, however, was not very congenial to adult bulk. I'm 5'7" and my head just scraped the headliner. My kids wouldn't have a problem now, but as they advance in age they will not feel very comfortable, I'm sure. My seven-year-old is already the tallest kid in his class. The salesman said that there is actually more rear seat room in the Tacoma 4-door than there is in the Tundra (!?!).
I don't think I can get my ATV loaded into the bed and keep the tailgate closed. That probably disappoints me the most about this model.
I'm supposed to meet the Ford salesman tomorrow for a F150 test drive. He's arranged to bring in a 4-door Lariat in two-wheel drive from another store.
A good friend of the family who operates a auto repair center wants me to drive a F150 thats a few years old before I decide. He's appalled that I would consider a Ford product. He says they "really loosen up in a few years."
Of course, he's pretty much a GM guy so I think I know what's going on here. Still, it may not be a bad idea.
The gray (or is it 'grey'?) 2002 RAM 1500 at the Dodge dealer has been sold. I might have to try a different dealer. I wanted to try a 4-door Dakota but they didn't have a one in stock.
Dusty
In all honesty I haven't tested the market here in Rochester, NY for Dodge yet. My immediate Dodge Dealer has sold five of his seven 2002s in just over two weeks. We haven't talked price yet. I hope to get a test drive in a few days, but all that seems to be around at the moment are 4WDs. I'm looking for a 2WD. The closest Dodge dealer is low on 2001s, especially Dakotas which are very popular around here.
My Ford dealer seems anxious. His stock is spotty. He has a number of F150 conventional cabs, but few of the 4-door versions. He has a lot of 2001 Super Duty's.
I didn't count them, but the Chevy dealer seems to have a full street row of of Silverados. I haven't paid much attention to them because Chevy isn't on my list.
The nearest Toyota dealer only had one Tundra, a 2001 conventional cab, V6.
Everybody around here is offering big time deals, even Toyota had 0% on Tundra, although I don't know why. Nissan, too.
I got a call a little while ago from a broker. Anybody ever dealt with a broker before? I guess he'll do all the leg work in finding the best deal on anything I'd want. He gets a flat fee, which I think is $200. What do you think?
Dusty
It's about 25F in Rochester, New York today, probably even colder here by lake Ontario. The first thing I noticed about the Dodge is how well it started. Better than our 1999 Toyota Avalon has ever started! It seemed like it fired within a couple of hundred nanoseconds, despite being dead cold.
The two F150s started very, very well, but not quite as quick, in my opinion. The 4.6 seemed almost as quick as the Dodge. The 5.4 was different in this respect. Still, good by anybody's standards.
I drove the Dodge off immediately after start-up. I did this intentionally to see how much lag was in the transmission (a sign of low pump pressure). Despite not feeling it go into gear, it took right off without a hint of hesitation. The Fords were the equal in this area, however the 5.4 transmission engagement is definite and pronounced.
Both the Ford 4.6, 5.4 and the Dodge 4.7 ran exceptionally smooth. Unlike more recent 318 RAMs I've driven, the 4.7 didn't seem to launch with the same feeling of power. However, this 4.7 seems to have a wider torque band since it seemed more responsive at higher speeds. The Ford 4.6 is not the equivalent to the Dodge as far as low or mid-range power, in my opinion. The 5.4 was noticeably more responsive, especially in the 45-60mph range. However, I would rate the Dodge 4.7 not far behind the 5.4 Ford. There was a big difference in full throttle response. The 4.7 Dodge comes immediately to life. Full throttle downshifts were crisp. The 4.6 Ford above 50 did not kick down for me a couple of times. It seemed like I had to mash the pedal right into the carpet in order to get a downshift. The 5.4 was better in this respect, but still not as responsive as the RAM.
The F150s are spacious in the front. The Lariat had leather interior, a material I have no appreciation for. Comparatively to the RAM and the Lariat, the XLT has the better seats. They are more plush and more comfortable. In the rear the Ford definitely has the edge, in fact, a superior edge. The rear seats are more reclined, thickly padded like the fronts, and offers more room for rear passengers.
The RAMs driver's position is very spacious and the cabin seemed more airy compared to the F150s. There is a noticeably better driver's view as well. The seats are better than the average truck, better by a margin compared to a Silverado. They are somewhat firmer and I was comfortable all during my 19 mile trip. There is much more drivers room in the RAM. Taller people than myself might find the difference between Ford and Dodge to be worth something. At 5'7" I wish the rear seating had more room in the Dodge, however.
The RAM had next to no perceptible engine noise at low speeds and the cabin was completely tight, the only real noise being a pronounced exhaust note. Over bumps you could tell that the frame was extremely rigid and there was no hint of body shutter. There was an amazing absence of tire noise. I did detect some wind noise that appeared to be coming from the "A" pillars. It wasn't very pronounced.
Both F150s were very quiet as well, but not as quiet as the RAM. Engine noise was noticeable, but not objectionable. There was a hint of wind noise but I could not tell from where. What bothered me the most was an occasional druming sound from the dash on both F150s over broken pavement and tar strips. The XLT had a rattle low in the instrument panel as well as the driver's door. The Lariat had a buzz in the "A" pillar area. On the same road that I had driven the Dodge, I noticed on de-acceleration a hint of body shutter.
Handling. This is a tough one. Both the F150s and the RAM handle great, just differently. The F150 seems to have a slightly better low speed response and turning rate. The RAM seemed a little slower in the parking lot. At speeds over 15mph, the RAM has an almost sports car like response. This was even more noticeable at highway speeds. In the RAM there is a complete absence of the need to feed input into the steering wheel. I think you could hold a course all day without ever having to make a hint of a correction. At highway speeds the F150s seem a tad numb. Both offered about the same road input.
As far as ride I'd have to rate them as dead equals. On the road they are both smooth and compliant. Both absorbed various size pavement aberrations quietly and transmitted little harshness to the passengers. Pothole noise may be just a tad more noticeable in the Fords.
Fit and finish was excellent on the Dodge. I looked at four RAM Quads while I was there and would have to give them all a perfect score of 100 for assembly quality. The paint work, which has been criticized on past RAMs, was almost show car finish on the examples I saw. Very impressive. The only thing I could criticize on the RAM was what I thought was a slightly -- very slightly -- cheesy carpet material. Material wise, everything else seemed first rate.
The two F150s I inspected had flawed paint. Both had a significant amount of orange peel just above the taillights. Low on the driver's door of the XLT the paint was thin. The dash materials seem cheaper, and a panel just to the right of the steering column was loose fitting. Closing the cup holder produced a little 'ting' sound in the dash.
Driving impressions of the Dodge and Ford are both favorable. This is a tough call.
btw, imo, leather rules...especially the untreated saddle leather that graces the interior of the king ranch f150.
All of them were 2-wheel drive and that's what I'm looking for. Yes, there would be times when a 4x4 would be nice, especially during hunting season in the Southern Tier where I own my property. But I do not consider it essential. You are paying for the increased cost of additional power-robbing drive line friction and weight for every linear foot the truck moves. A limited-slip axle will suit my purposes. I think you said you're in South Dakota and there I would probably have a different mind set about 4x4.
I'm not even interested in the bigger V8s since the vast majority of my vehicles use will be moving people, not cargo. I have an appreciation for the power, don't get me wrong. But I have a little more practical character that drives me to consider long term cost. I (we) usually keep our vehicles 10 years or more. With the exception of our current Chevy, all of our cars and trucks were over 100,000 miles when we passed them on.
As to the comment about the F150 being "long-in-the-tooth," I couldn't disagree more. The F150 is probably the most overall competent truck on the market today. I have the occasional displeasure of riding in Silverados and have on more than one occasion driven one. There is no doubt in my mind that the F150 of a few years ago is more than twice the truck of the new Chevy. And I think the new RAM could darn well be the F150s equal. With the noisy interiors, abysmal assembly quality and extremely poor reliability, the Chevy and GMC counterpart are the only vehicles on my list to completely avoid.
Dusty
"Past General Motors employee." 'Nuff said. LOL!
my dad has owned three new gm trucks over the last decade and each of them was fine overall except for one area. it seems gm has a problem trying to figure out how to eliminate interior rattles. all three of my dad's trucks starting rattling rather early in their existence. therefore i found it kinda odd what your gm buddy said about fords loosening up...
I think he was referring to the truck's overall, not just interiors. He claims that front-end components, steering, driveline, bodywork, etc. I don't think he was being specific to interiors.
What's the weather been like in South Dakota?
Dusty
as far as fords loosening up...i can't really relate much. i haven't had mine long enough, but i sure don't remember ever hearing that from anybody else. guess i'll find out as i plan to keep the current truck for quite some time.
Growing up in SD is the main reason I still drive a 4X4 (even though I live in Houston now). I put on the Autotrac when it rains, but only needed 4X4 2 times in the last 10 years -
i live in the cold northeast part of the state...aberdeen to be specific.
Both had high praise for the 4.7 engine with the new 45RFE transmission. One had traded a 2000 Silverado 6.1 and the other a 2001 RAM 360 V8 and both felt the 4.7 engine was equal to their previous trucks.
Just starting to see some 2002 RAMs on the road. We saw 4 today.
Dusty
you better hurry up...the extended powertrain warranty ends 12-31!!!
Nope. Haven't made up my mind yet. And anyways, I need to wait until April or later.
Cold snap hit here today. No snow, but it appears to be in the forecast. Buffalo to the west has received two feet in some areas.
Merry Christmas to you and your family!
Dusty
Hello all. First visit to this site and I'm looking for feedback on the 2002 Dodge 1500. Saltysack, bc01cls, Magilla and others, I would appreciate a listing of exactly what you bought, discussion of the merits of various engine, trans, options etc. Quad-cab v. standard and so on. I am seriously considering buying a Ram 1500 which will be my first pick-up truck. This will be used as a third vehicle, light-duty (no towing) used by my multiple kids coming up as new drivers and me occasionally for odd-jobs. Given this use, my first inclination is to buy a "stripper" as cheap as possible. I have other vehicles for people-moving and driving fast so, as attractive as a deluxe Q-Cab looks, I don't think I really need it. So, after looking at the Auto show, checking out various web sites and reviews, I'm getting serious enough to tromp off to a dealer and test drive. I am leaning toward a basic Regular cab, vinyl interior, manual transmission....maybe 4.7 V-8 short bed. As much as I'd like to have a Sport with all the goodies and 20" tires, I'm trying really hard to keep the "new-car-fever" to a minimum and spend under $20K instead of $35K. Input from you 2002 owners is greatly appreciated.
Auto vs. manual trans
Did you go with vinyl interior? How do you like it vs. cloth?
Did you get the limited slip diff? If not, why do you think it is not a must have option in a truck?
Penrose....of the RAM 1500 Quad Cabs that I've looked at, I'd say better than half had a limited slip differential. Of course, we're in snow country. A good portion of these 2002's also have the trailer towing option. Of the F150 Super Crews that I have looked at, none had limited slip and only two had the trailer towing package.
By the way, on the F150 you don't get the auxilary transmission cooler with trailer towing, I just found out.
Myself, I don't find the looks of the new RAM 1500 anywhere near appealing as the previous style. Dodge is apparently carrying over the same 2001 in anything over 1/2 ton. Looks aren't that important to me, anyway.
Over the holidays we noticed four or five on the road around here. Judging from what I've observed from the two Dodge dealers I visited, Dakota and Durango units were moving much better than 2002 RAM, although both dealers were sold out of 2001 RAMs. Still, they just started to get 2002 RAMs in this area. My local dealer had sold the first three he got in less than a week.
Regards,
Dusty
Regarding styling, of course its totally subjective so your opinion has as much weight as anyones. I kind of like it and I'm not a "truck-guy" (at least not yet!). But at the auto show this week, I noticed a distinct rip-off by both Ford and Chevy of the "peterbilt" lines of the Dodge. Both had distinct raised portions of the hood that weren't there in previous versions. I think the sales leaders have noticed and are worried about number 3!
if you opt for the 5.4l ford engine, you get axilliary tranny cooling...
And I agree as to style and looks. At the moment I'd say the Tundra is the overall better looking truck at the moment, and the F150 is second. I remember when the last generation RAM was introduced, I thought they were the ugliest thing around. I now think they are the best looking. Still. Same for the Ford, but now I like the looks. Sometimes it takes a while to grow on you.
I noticed that a small manufacturing firm just up the road from my office has just gotten two new RAM 1500 conventional cabs. This may sound funny to you, but when it comes to the 2002 RAM, I think the four-door version is actually more appealing aesthetically than the conventional cab.
I do like the grill on the Sport model better than the chrome SLT.
Dusty
My oldest son says I'd look real good in it, but plastic surgery is still probably cheaper!!!
Dusty
Oh......excuse me......fell asleep there for a moment....was having a great dream.....
Also, I would be interested in an extension of the shift lever.
Any way - do you plan to put the snow tires on the stock wheels or do you plan on putting the snow tires on a second set of wheels?
245 75 16 tires are almost the exact same size as 245 70 17. Not sure 16 wheels will fit the new Ram but this could solve your problem (if you plan on getting wheels for the snow tires)
4x2
ST = P245/70R17 BSW all season
SLT= P265/70R17 BSW all season
SLT+=P265/70R17 OWL all season
4x4
same as above but on/off road tires with all P265's OWL
LT275/70R17 OWL all terrain optional on SLT, SLT+
and the 20 inchers:
P275/55R20 BSW Performance (4x2)
P275/60R20 BSW on/off road (4x4)
I have noticed from walking one dealer lot (so this may not be the case across the board) that the P245 all seasons on the ST's are Michelins and everything else is Goodyear.
As far as "dealing with dealerships", visit once or twice to establish yourself as a serious buyer. Time is your best ally....they are the one's in a hurry to do a deal, not you. Wait to see what Dodge does to respond to GM's 2002 rebate...they'll eventually match it. Get your money set up in advance so you can truthfully tell the salesman that you'll pay "cash" or your financing is already arranged. Once they understand you're serious tell them, "here's the deal. I'm going to buy a truck with exactly these options. I'll order from the factory if necessary, I'm in no hurry. I'm going to pay invoice less any incentives. If you aren't interested, I understand, but I know I will find a willing dealer in this town who needs to move a unit at this price." I have used this for every domestic vehicle I've ever purchased and it always works. The dealer makes at least 3% (you have to let them make something) and you get about 10% off the sticker.
Dusty
Bob