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DC might as well lower her another inch and swap out the rear axle for a RIS set-up. Join the rest of them out there and abandon their distinctivness.
Sorry, just venting.
BTW, this is huck6. For some reason I have to use a different sign-in name when pinging from work. Yeah, I do some of this at work, but I figure it is healthier than a smoke break.
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
ok, huck, clever- i see what you mean. but no, all the '03's i've seen look exactly like my new '02. same black/charcoal sport trim around the fenders and bumpers. only limiteds get painted trim. and it's metal all the way down the doors (excluding the trim piece). just the plastic flares and bumper covers are plastic. this is how you distinguish between sports and limiteds.
i was talking about the inside door trim. for '03, it's just flat black plastic. no matching trim to match the seats. cheap and decontented. thank god for my new non-lowered '02.
Perhaps shill3/huck6 is the Sybil of the Edmonds board. You never know which personality you are dealing with: the dark, brooding, mysterious shill3 or the friendly, warm huck6.
The scary part is he/they probably have eight or nine more personalities to throw at us.
I am relieved to read that the exterior cladding was an anonamly. Maybe it was some sort of custom job, but man it looked cheap. Our dealer had some '03's on his lot and they looked just like the '02's. But, they did not have the tire cover on the spare. Is that no longer included? Fine with me, I like a bare spare.
"The Element should be frugal with fuel compared to a thirsty SUV, as mileage ratings range from 20 mpg city/23 mpg highway for an AWD with manual to 21 city/25 highway for a FWD with the automatic."
20/23 is frugal? Yet EVERY single review I have ever read on the Liberty (Edmunds, Carpoint, C&D, Consumer Reports etc) lists the Libs 16/21 gas mileage as terrible. Heck, half the posts in this forum are asking about gas mileage - complaining about it, etc.
Working the math a bit - the Element should see about 22 mpg in combined driving. The Lib owners here report about 19 mpg combined. Driving 100,000 miles and assuming $2 a gal for gas (I know way high) you are looking at a cost to own difference of $1436. Figure that 100,000 miles is 5 years of driving - that works out to an extra $287 a year in gas to own a real 4x4, with a 6 cyl engine, legitimate towing capacity etc. etc.
Mileage figures for the Ford Escape, Subaru Forester etc come out in the same neighborhood.
My point is simply - work the numbers and remember that the reviewers who want to harp on the Libs poor gas mileage are just assuming that because the truck is a little stylish (I won't say cute) it should get 30 mph.
Before you scratch the Liberty off your "buy list" work the numbers and see if the impact is really that much.
I found it wasn't
Of course, the tire cover can be put into play as a bargaining chip.
I paid the extra $45 for a special tire cover.
Dallas News (registration required).
Internet car entrepreneurs regard Texas as the toughest nut to crack
Or the Liberty could just be in high demand in your area :-)
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
I think it has to do primarily with the clutch vs. torque converter issue.
Clutches are not designed to slip that much, and if you double the mass of the vehicle, the clutch is going to need some extra work (which will generate a large amount of heat and blow the clutch up...literally).
Manual transmission gears see much more "jerk" (engineering term) than do automatic planetary sets. Automatics don't have cogs in order to engage/disengage gears either, adding to their reliability (although much more difficult to work on).
In any event, while sitting in the car, I checked out the owner's manual, to look up towing. Most SUV/trucks manufacturers now put restrictions on *unbraked* trailers, and it appears Jeep is no different. Here's how it's worded in the manual:
• Jeep *recommends* trailer brakes on any trailer weighing over 1000 pounds.
• Jeep *requires* trailer brakes on any trailer being pulled by a Liberty equipped with ABS.
This ABS restriction is a new one for me. I've never heard of that before. The 1000 pound restriction is almost universal these days, for small/mid-size SUVs. Full-size trucks usually have a 2000 pound trailer brake restriction, except for Fords. I don't think Ford puts any trailer brake restrictions on any of their SUV/trucks.
Bob
Oh, get a VIN and the "out the door" price in writing before you hop on that plane, too.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
However, I am hoping that larger tires with more aggressive treads will help make up the difference. Eventually, I would like to go with a moderate lift (2.5") when I am ready for more challenging trails.
Has anyone had this happen, or heard of this happening? I'm waiting for the part to arrive from the states, and I've been with no Liberty now for almost two weeks.
Regards,
Rex
San Juan
Be aware that, in general, power supply irregulaties often cause computer failures/errors -- if any electonic/electrical accessories or modifications have been done to your Liberty, have those items checked for proper installation (especially re: wiring and grounding). Left untraced, an intermittent short or grounding problem can drive anyone nuts.
Get the Liberty for fun, off-road, or local use, but for distance drives, she may regret the KJ.
My opinion only, but let the flames fly.
If you are paying directly for anything above the base Limited:
4x4. Otherwise, might as well get a minivan.
Check out the G package, especially with regard to the leather seats which are more comfortable for most people, as well as easier to clean if your pet is allowed on them. Many of its features make longer drives more pleasant. If you are leaning toward the cloth seats, I strongly recommend trying both types at your dealer before committing -- some people find the cloth seats uncomfortable, but others think they're a-ok (depends on body type and weight). Also, the G package gives you the SelecTrac upgrade which allows you to use full-time 4WD (can't use CommandTrac in lots of situations without risking mechanical problems, including on slightly wet pavement).
The sunroof is very nice, but if there's anything you can functionally live without, that's probably it. Nice for ventilation, but it's otherwise an indulgence. Your dog might like the airflow.
If you ever need to tow, get the tow package -- it upgrades the cooling system and isn't very expensive.
If you ever intend to go off-road (the harsh stuff), get the off-road package. Otherwise, you can probably do just fine without the skidplates, etc.
Lots of owners swear by the ABS braking system. The '03s have four wheel disc brakes, which may be more than adequate. ABS is highly desirable for most owners, but has some issues with regard to off roading and such.
Side air bags are desirable. Your judgment is as good as anyone else's re: cost effectiveness.
Heated seats are very nice if you spend part of your year in very cold conditions (mountains). Nice to be cozy without the heater blasting, but they're another indulgence.
What are you considering so far?
ABS-Had cars without them, last two vehicles with them. Would never order another vehicle without ABS (because they're an option on the Liberty)
Good Luck!
You're going to have to listen to your options with whomever else is using the vehicle regularly, because everyone hears differently. If you're thinking of spending more than $500 to upgrade the stereo seperately, you definitely should check out a few alternatives for that reason alone. (Bring your own music when you go shopping.) Remember that aftermarket alternatives might not work with the steering wheel mounted stereo controls.
Is this due to the 1" lowering of the said SUV or did Jeep change something in the intake or emissions system??
Anyone know, and does the '03 really get better mileage??
1200 miles- 19 mpg.
All in all, in real-world driving, I highly doubt you would notice any difference.
It only has 1900 miles on it so far.
I don't have the board computer so this was measured simply by resetting the trip-counter to 0 with a full tank of gas, driving 285 miles and then filling up the tank again (59 liters used = 15.59 gallon)
BTW I have not experienced ANY problems so far. No strange sounds. Everything works.
I have the upgraded stereo which I think sounds great. I initially thought the controls on the steering wheel were a bit ridiculous, since the stereo really only is inches away from the steering wheel. Now that I have the 'remote control' - I love it. I do agree with the earlier post that the equalizer is a little silly. Makes me wonder what the standard stereo has to adjust the sound?
I also have the Sunroof.It's cool, works well. I don't know anyone who has a leaking sunroof unless they were aftermarket sunroofs from the 80s.
I don't have a tire cover - but don't want one. I got the nice rims on the car and the spare looks nice on the back without a cover. Why does everyone need a cover? So that the spare doesn't get dirty?
Happy Jeep owner.