Jeep Liberty

huck6

I spec'd out a 2003 5 spd. 6 cyl. a few weeks ago, no problem. Was not ready to order, but dealer said we could get it in about 6 weeks from the day the deposit was cashed. I am wondering if it is because you are looking for a 2wd?

As for a manual preference, that's simply style and taste. I love shifting gears, even in traffic, it makes it feel as if I am actually doing something. But, I fear in the near future, only sport cars will come with a manual option. Shame.

remy23

I hope your dealer has good information. The standard line that I was getting before I ordered was 6- 8 weeks delivery. I figured 10-12 weeks. Well I ordered a 2003 (V6 5 speed 26 B offroad and towing ) last week of August (5 weeks ago)... There is still no confirmed manufacturing date. I wouldn't bet on 6 weeks, but I will be really disappointed if I don't see my new Liberty by end of November. Good luck !

mrgallup

If you go to Jeep.com - at the bottom 1/3rd of the page there is a series of boxes like "Most Award Winning", "7/70" etc.

The first box says "'03 Sneak Preview" - click on that - and you can see the whole gambit - from build your own to locate a dealer and request a brochure.

There you can get a look at the 17" tires.

mrgallup

There might be another difference between the 02's and 03s. My 03 - 27G package came with a rearview mirror which automatically dims. The driver side outside mirror also dims (which I thought was a very cool touch).

A coworker just got an 02 - 27G and doesn't have that option.

Just one more thing to add to the list for those that feel Jeep is de-contenting the Lib.

clever1

mrgallup: The "auto-dimming" feature is new on a variety of DC products. The heated, folding power mirrors on '02s use optical coatings to diminish glare, whereas auto-dimming technology uses electronics to do the same. In practice, I haven't noticed any problem with glare in any of my '02 Ltd's mirrors -- most potential sources being lower than the side and rear-view positions. This is a nice new feature, but strikes me as much more valuable in sedans and coups.

71charger

Had a new Sport for about 10 days. It's the wife's new car and so far she flat loves the thing. I've driven it once and was impressed. Feels solid as a rock. Love the tailgate. Huge improvement over our Cherokee. Almost didn't buy another Jeep as our 94 is kind of a piece of crap but took the plunge anyway. So far it's looking like a winner.

shill3

I did try the '03 sneak peak on the Jeep site and when you build your vehicle, the 5 spd trans is not available on the Sport. Tried '02 and it was still available there.

Hoping its a glitch. If not, used Cherokee or Xterra here I come.

mrgallup

I am looking to add a few things to my Liberty - just wondering what is out there that I don't have to drill to add.

I understand the rear window deflector requires drilling into the roof. How about sunroof deflector or mud flaps? Aren't the mudflap holes already there?

Are there step rails that don't need new holes drilled?

Thanks

clever1

shill3: The sneak peek on the website is still under construction and lots of things are still missing in the "build it" section. Here's a better way to go about this: from Jeep's home page, locate a dealer (punch in whatever zip code you want -- larger markets will show more diverse inventory); you will notice various configurations that are actually available at dealerships, and can click thru to general descriptions as well as "view the sticker", which is an exact replication of that found on each vehicle. Of course, you may have to poke around a bit before finding a 3.7L/5spd, but you will indeed find them, locally and otherwise.

mrgallup: On '02s, the mud flaps required one hole to be drilled out of three per flap. I'm guessing that you could secure them by using two pre-existing holes and a little ingenuity. I think the sunroof deflector is a pop-on part, but you have to be careful about any contact points that may degrade the paint over time. (I'm less worried about air deflection than bird poo from with my sliding sunroof.) The rear deflector is painted to match the body and should be considered a permanent installation. I'm not sure about step rail installations, but know they definitely need to be installed with screws strong enough to bear lots of weight. Best to call your dealer to get some input on any of these. And, as always, please let us know how it goes.

paddler23

The DC website for Canada has been updated for 2003 Jeep Liberty 'build it' since Oct 2nd. I have a 5 speed manual on order and the discussions on this forum had caused me some concern about availability. Yes, you can order a 5 speed manual with the Sport 3.7 L engine, and also get trailer tow package. You can check out the Canadian DC site http://www.daimlerchrysler.ca/

BUT don't pay attention to the prices

shill3

Thanks for the feedback on the 5 spd. There are very few 5 spds/3.7's on any of the Phoenix lots (that I can find) so it looks like I will be ordering (and waiting). I am grateful that they still give us the option, but it seems most customers just aren't interested. We did have a local dealer with a 5 spd./3.7 on the lot, but I doubt it's still there.

I'm going to take a close-up of a couple of Renegades this weekend. Still kinda iffy on the make-up, but the lights are nice and it does stand out. The green is OK, but the silver really looks sharp.

clever1

shill3: You may find it worthwhile to search outside your market, and to even take a trip to pick something up elsewhere. Check out carmax.com, for example (I haven't, but their prices are generally good and they deliver to closer locations for a reasonable fee that often comes in well under other market prices). Otherwise, I'm guessing that Jeep has recently been focusing on producing Renegades with the 3.7L/5spd, so you may want to investigate the recent updates -- I saw one in black and another in khaki and they were quite handsome (not as aggressively extroverted looking as earlier versions). Otherwise, if you order a Sport now you'll probably see one without waiting way too long. Have fun shopping!

shill3

Thanks clever1, I plugged my preferences into carsdirect.com (the 5 spd. trans would not let me click it, but that might be a fault of their software) and got a price nearly 1,000 below invoice on an '03 Renegade. I am considering trying this option rather than placing an order, but I am curious if they are actually able to find the vehicle that you specify or if they just come close. Buying a car online is a big jump from buying books or airline tickets, but if it will save $1,000, why not give it a shot. It beats waiting 8-10 weeks for a special order.

What do folks think of the new roof rack and basket on the Renegade? It looks like it will rule out a sunroof unless it is removable (like the Xterra). I am warming up to the Renegade. If you build a Sport with all of the options that the Renegade offers (or those that are available) it will cost more. Looks like the lights are operational when the vehicle is moving. That might sound silly, but the Subaru Baja's lights require the car to be off before they will light.

clever1

shill3: I just did a quick check of carmax.com and found 5spd/6cyl '03 Sports in stock via their Atlanta Southlake division. I didn't bother to check their other locations, but think you may find something there. I am not affiliated with them in the least, but do see people driving vehicles with their logos around here often, and they have developed a strong reputation for fair dealing and always seem to sell vehicles at the lowest prices. Another reason I recommend checking them out is that they are an official Jeep dealer, and their website shows actual pictures of each vehicle *in stock*.

Overall, I think the Renegade looks great (you should see the '03 brochure -- very nice!) The (new?) aluminum brushguard-ish bumper is something I would like on my Ltd. The sunroof is available on the Renegade, and the beefed-up roof rack and light assembly is more likely to diminish wind noise and glare than to get in the way of loading.

adkim

We've had 14,000 trouble-free miles on the Lib since last September. I've been wondering for a long time about upgrading the shocks. Periodic inquiries to Monroe, Bilstein, etc. lead nowhere. Anyone know of aftermarket shocks for the Liberty.

Also, I spoke to my local dealer about lowering the Lib to be like the '03 models. Presumably all it would take would be shorter springs. Natch, he "didn't know anything about it." Can anyone point me in the direction of some proof? The '02 specs give a height of 70.9"; I can't seem to find any specs for the '03 on jeep.com, let alone anything more definitive. Help appreciated.

clever1

adkim: Can't help you with the shock thing. According to the '03 brochure, total overall height without roof rails is 70.2 inches. Hopefully, you are aware that having a pre-lowered Liberty increases it's desirability (and probably ease of resale, whenever you do that) -- mine drives wonderfully, no handling problems, can't imagine the 3/4 inch lowering really is making that much of a difference to anyone except those who want higher ground clearance.

mrgallup

I have a chance to buy an extra pair of Liberty keyless remotes from an associate from an 02 Liberty. The FCC Id on the back of the remote is: GQ43VT9T On mine the id is GQ43VT17T. That is the only unique identifying info I can find. Any idea if these remotes will be compatible? No way to test them before the sale. Whats on the back of your 02's anyone?
Thanks

mrgallup

Clever1 - you say that pre-lowered Libertys are more desirable and will have a higher resale value (or easier resale anyway). I have read previous posts that dealers have pre-lowered Libs they are negotiating less on etc. I can't believe that these are THAT much different. Reports are you can't easily see the difference. Reviewers say the ride is slightly smoother, may explain the +1 mpg rating on the 03's - and it eliminates the "Isuzu Issue" on what DC must view as a key vehicle in Jeeps future (considering they have built a new state of the art plant in Toledo for it's manufacture)

Just curious how the Pre-lowereds are so much better? I guess I would think that those who really care - will be doing more mods / raising of the Lib anyway. Would you really search high and low for a Pre- 03/2002 Liberty if you had a choice?

clever1

mrgallup: First, Liberty keys and related questions are best handled by your favorite dealer. Many have the Sentry security encoding, which means a person can't just have a key copy and start your engine -- it must have some sort of encoded microprocessor specifically assigned to your vehicle. Even if those '02 fobs are of the same standard as your '03, the dealer will still have to encode them for you, which likely entails a fee.

2nd: If you are ever in a situation where ground clearance is an issue an inch is a big difference. Remember that the clearance on similar vehicles is at best about eight inches versus 4 or 5 for most sedans and coupes -- in other words, there's only about three or four inches difference between the average sedan and better SUVs. A lot of people pay plenty of good money to add just two or so inches more clearance, if that gives you any indication of value. We're definitely not talking the extreme 4x4 stuff here... just people who don't want to crunch or hang up the underside of their vehicles on rough forest paths or get bunched up in dense snow, mud, sand or whatever (think about rural and mountain folk, too). People seem generally pleased when they happen to find a pre-lowered Liberty, although the lowered ones are still better than a lot of alternatives for off-road flexibility.

I felt lucky to find a pre-lowered '02 for some of the places I need to drive -- I really wasn't planning to go to the trouble of modifying anything, and wasn't happy at all that Jeep lowered the thing as a PR move. I've been very pleased with the handling and cornering of my Jeep. After a little experience behind its wheel (as with any new vehicle), it feels rock solid and predictable even on curvy high-speed exit ramps and in relatively tight manuevers. Also, I'm now averaging about 21mpg in suburban stop-and-go driving, and can easily get more on highways. Apparently, I'm not alone. In the balance, lowering the Liberty was an unnecessary "take away".

mrgallup

You make good points - thanks for the reasoned response.

What are you doing to get 21 in the city? Any modifications or just driving style and technique? My Limited is going to be a commuter so any assistance with mileage would be helpful.

Regarding programming key fobs - you actually don't need to see a dealer to program them. Provided you have the overhead mini-console. Detailed instructions are in the owners manual - but if you have 2 good remotes - you can program up to 4 total. Same thing with the sentry keys. As long as you have 2 good ones - you can program additional ones. Again the owners manual will go into specifics.

clever1

mrgallup: I've been hearing that those little remotes have not been that easy to program. In a way, I would hope they're not -- otherwise, I could program my remote to open a range of other Liberties pretty easily. Others have been leaving it to the service department (faster, and ready to cut and encode the extra keys for the fobs, which is what most people want). Regardless, your dealership should be able to confirm whether the remotes are compatible. Also, why didn't the original owner want their remote entry fobs? Bonus for you, but kind of odd for them.

As far as getting good mileage, apparently mine is not unusual after break-in. I drive with a steady foot and tend not to put myself in situations where I'm slamming the brakes a lot. Driving exclusively in the worst urban traffic, I'm getting just under 19mpg (that's more surprising to me than the 23+ highway). In mixed suburban, 21.5mpg lately.

I drive somewhat by engine/transmission sound, and my Liberty seems to like gentle starts from which it reacts smoothly and responsively up to speed (I've probably "trained" that into the system). On occasion when I've really punched it, it quickly seems to be analyzing the best way to escalate based on my "usual range". Erratic pedal force appears to confuse it's peak efficiency calculations -- I'm sure that's a computer thing. I wonder how multiple driver versus solo driver vehicles compare re: fuel efficiency.

huck6

After searching PHX via the internet, I found almost exactly the Liberty I was looking for right hear in Flagstaff (everything except side curtain airbags).

I saw that Jeep has a $1000 cash rebate on '03 Liberty's, so with any luck, I can post Saturday and tell you of my new KJ. I have already cleaned up my KIA, how's that for optimism.

oldntired1950

I've had my 02 Sport 3.7L since mid-March and now have 10.5K miles on the clock. It's been true love from the start. This is the first new vehicle I've purchased that hasn't had even one thing wrong with it. If you're interested in the pros and cons of the lowered model vs the original engineering check out the Consumer Reports web site. They've tested 3 different models of the Liberty - an early 4WD Sport was the first. In reaction to the Auto Week comotion regarding roll over they tested a 2WD Sport, and then when DC lowered the Lib they tested a later model 4WD. In no case could they duplicate the roll over problem. They said that the handling was great, but that the ride and handling was better in the earlier higher model than in the later lower model, especially when fully loaded.

lemon75

Hi,

For those of you that have opted for the chrome tires, have you noticed an improvement in the ride of the vehicle or is it more of an aesthetic option.

Thanks.

huck6

I saw that update. If I remember correctly, CR did not notice any difference in off-road performance and actually seemed pleased with the Liberty. I guess there is a first for everything.

geminigeek

Hello, I am overseas with U.S. Navy and ordered a Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in Europe) in my host nation (Europe version). I notice when I received it that they took the ashtray out and the cigarette lighter was on the right side and there was no power outlet in the front. However the power outlet in rear still exists. Does anyone out there with a Liberty 03 have a power outlet in the front? The 2002 models had the power outlet in the front. The ashtray now is a round removable flip top container that fits perfectly into the cup holder on the console. Please let me know, thanks. tedgale@otenet.gr

clever1

geminigeek: All '03s now have a "smoker's package" available, which replaces the little storage compartment with a "switched" cigarette lighter and ashtray. More people want a place for sunglasses, etc. than the ashtray and lighter, so DC changed it. You can still add the package after delivery (although it may not be readily available) -- better still, why not discourage smoking in your new Jeep? You'll maintain a higher resale value that way.

clever1

Jeep has *finally* updated it's website, everyone!

stever

I think Geminigeek is really wanting a power outlet up front like the old days when you'd pull the cigarette lighter out and use that socket. Come to think of it, my van doesn't have an ashtray, but it still has a power outlet in the dash.

Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

geminigeek

Thanks for the info. We do not smoke, I just like having an extra power source up front. The local dealer told me not to use the cigarrette lighter up front as a power source because it may burn the plastic in that area. Can the cig lighter be used as power source?. Thanks.

clever1

geminigeek: Glad to hear you don't smoke -- much healthier and sweeter smelling for all concerned. The '03 brochure indicates that an unswitched dc outlet is still standard below the climate controls. The "smoker's group" option adds the ashtray and switched dc outlet to that -- the tradeoff being the little storage compartment. There is no reason why a switched dc outlet would "burn plastic" while an unswitched one would not. Just in case you don't know, unswitched outlets are direct battery feeds that do not get switched on and off with the ignition (imagine leaving a mobile phone to charge overnight, or something like that).

adkim

clever1, oldntired, thanks for the responses. I didn't realize the change was less than 3/4". Can't see how that would make much difference -- and the CR update tends to confirms it.

tbunder1

the lowering of the liberty's is really more than 3/4". in some cases it is more than an inch. i have a non-lowered 4x4 sport, and the LLL, or liberty lift level which is the area from the ground to the frame rail between the doors is 13" with stock sized BFG a/t's. on some lowered ones, people are struggling to get even 12".

the LLL is a measurement i learned about on a jeep liberty forum. jeeps unlimited. com i believe. i can always tell whether the liberty i see is lowered or non lowered. and not just from looking at where the "4x4" emblem is. the lowered ones, dont get mad, sit like the escapes or santa fe's. still nice vehicles though and tons more capable than anything else in its class. but thank god for my '02 silver sport that is not lowered.

tbunder1

well, not really. but.....

i picked up some '03 brochures at the dealer the other day. tonight i was just looking at them and noticed a few numbers i really couldn't believe. but these numbers are straight out of the DC brochures.

running ground clearance:
Liberty 4x4- 8.9
Wrangler- 8.8
also, remember that these are lowered liberty's. add another 3/4 to an inch on pre-lowered ones. (i got one) )

approach/departure angles:
Liberty- 36/31.5 degrees
Wrangler- 41.8/31.3 degrees

breakover angles:
Liberty- 21.8 degrees
Wrangler- 22.3 degrees

track- front/rear
Liberty- 60/59.7
Wrangler- 57.6/57.8

transfer case:
Liberty- NV231
Wrangler (non rubicon)- NV231

what does all this mean? well, imo, it means that the liberty has a little wrangler blood in it. i didn't know they both shared the same t/c. also, interesting that the liberty has more ground clearance.

shill3

I think the biggest difference between the KJ and TJ off road will be the KJ's IFS. I am not sure about the ground clearence, it is pretty obvious on the lot that the Wranger's underneath is not nearly as flat at the Liberty, that might account for some of it.

BTW, went out to buy a Liberty and ended up with a Wrangler. I still like the Liberty, but I had trouble finding a five speed (dealer said that they were holding off on the five speeds in production). Anyway, at least I am still in the Jeep family.

vin_weasel

The other biggest difference is probably the wheelbase. The TJ is much smaller and it makes a difference in the types of obstacles both can take on.

71charger

I'm thinking of getting the accessory CD changer from Mopar for the Liberty. Anyone done this? They list for $410 but I have a couple of friends working at dealerships that can get me stuff at cost whatever that will work out to be. Where does it mount? Do I have to hack anything up? All cables just plug in? I'm also considering the one at Crutchfield that's about $300. Any experiences with these things in this vehicle would be appreciated.

71charger

While neither my wife nor I smoke I wound up buying the "smoker's package" from parts for my 2000 Neon. My wife is a chewing gum junkie and I got tired of fishing the wrappers out of the cupholder. The little ash tray is nice for this. Ashtrays aren't just for smokers any more.

mrgallup

"Ashtrays aren't just for smokers any more."

I agree - I have had the habit of throwing my change from drive-thrus, parking garages, toll booths etc. in my ashtray. When I sold the car to get my Lib - in 2 month's I had acculated $16.00 in change. Biggest pet peeve about my Lib is there is no place to throw that kind of change - except in one of the cupholders and those are too valuable to use for change:)

mad0865

With our 2002 (prelowered) Liberty, the ashtray is used for spare change. I took the cigarette lighter out (in the junk drawer in the kitchen I think) and plug my radar detector in there. It's nice because when I shut the engine off, it also kills power to the radar detector. It also has the powered plug as well that'll stay on even after the power has been shut off, good for the cell phone.

rbkemp

hello, i have a 2003 liberty limited 4x4 with the trailer and off road group packages, from the factory. i noticed the other day that there was no rear tow hook on it, though. i noticed because when i was at a jeep dealer recently i saw a liberty renegade model that had two hooks on the front and one on the rear, and it also had the trailer package. so, i wanted to take a poll to see what other owners have out there. please let me know what you have on yours. thanks.

71charger

This is a little round unit with a flip up lid that fits in a cupholder. I forget how much it cost but eleven bucks rings a bell.

tarkus2k

The trailer hitch covers over the tow hook mount. You can add a rear shackle receiver to the tow hitch if you need one.

martee99

I've been shopping the used Liberty market for a couple of weeks now, haggling with the dealers. While mulling over a dealer's "final offer" ( which is honestly quite tempting ) on the way back home, it struck me.

As I undersstand it, '02's Libertys purchased before 7-9-02 do not have a transferable 7/70 powertrain manufacturer's warranty. I think this has the real potential to signficantly reduce the market price of used '02's beyond typical depreciation over the next couple of years, at least. Two years from now, why would anyone by a used '02 when they can buy and '03 and get a powertrain warranty?.

Any thoughts?

71charger

I've really got to question your timing. Why wouldn't you have purchased a brand new one a few weeks ago at zero percent financing instead of a used one at the used car financing rate? In the long run the new one probably would have been cheaper.

71charger

Still looking for feedback. Title says it all.

stockey

Sorry to tell you,but The Liberty is no match for the Sorento,off and on the road,as well as for quality.

paddler23

The Sorrento is good value but so is the Liberty.

Check out Edmonds comparison using compare vehicles

The Sorrento is even heavier than the Liberty making it somewhat under powered. Tow rating is less and it really isn't a large vehicle dimension wise. Space dimensions are relatively equal with the Sorrento have 2 cubic feet more cargo space.
I agree the Sorento is good value but so is the Liberty and it's a Jeep!

clever1

71charger: You probably haven't gotten much feedback because you are already on the right track re: shopping for a compatible CD changer. An OEM or specifically approved unit should plug in without much, if any, difficulty. I wouldn't recommend going with an auxiliary changer that isn't specifically designed to work with the main head unit -- sonics are indistinguishable, and the potential wiring and functional compatibility issues are not worth the hassle. Just use your friends' discount - "cost" on the Mopar unit is probably at or below the price of the Crutchfield alternative.

martee99: Are you planning on privately selling your vehicle after only a few years? 70,000 miles is more like four and one-half years of driving for most owners, not seven years -- what's left to tranfer? The 7/70 warranty is not really going to effect trade-in values, although it will make private resale a bit easier during it's term. In other words, while extended powertrain warranties are great for original owners, they are not likely to significantly reduce resale values for the average owner, who keeps a non-leased vehicle a minimum of six years.

stockey: What exactly are you basing your opinion upon? The Sorento seems like a good design, but it's not going to excel against the Liberty 4x4. According to Kia's own specificatons, the Sorento isn't as powerful, weighs more, gets lower mpg, can't tow as much, only offers full-time AWD in the top luxury trim (aprox. US$26,500), has lower approach/departure, etc., etc, etc. Oh... maybe you mean that the Liberty isn't a match because it's obviously more capable!

tarkus2k

Yes Mr. Stockey the Sorento is a nice car. Unfortunately the only benefit it has over the Liberty is more speakers and sun glass holders.

It weighs more than the Liberty, has less power and less towing capacity and also only comes with part time 4wd. It also appears to have even worse gas mileage than the Libby.