I hardly know where to begin...I guess the short answer is that if reliability vs the Japanese is a primary consideration, you should stick with the Japanese competition.
Over the years, I've owned 50+ cars since 1962, fourteen MBs among them, and nearly as many Toyotas. At the moment, our one and only car is an '02 C240. Apart from a couple of minor problems early on [wheel alignment and a differential leak] that were competently handled by the dealer, we have been very happy with this car. But I would never compare its long-term costs and reliability outlook with anything from Toyota [I am much less impressed with Mazda in this regard].
Nothing from the Japanese in this price category combines the ride, handling, refinement, safety, and overall touring competence of a C or a BMW 3er. But you have to be prepared for the fact that it will be a higher maintenance companion than its Japanese counterparts.
Frankly, if this issue is really important to you, and you can afford a C230SS, you should be looking at the Lexus IS and the Infiniti G as well. Both ride too firmly for my taste, but then so does the C230 vs our C240, so they are more direct competitors for you than they were for me. The IS is tighter inside than the C, but the G has more room, if that is a tie-breaker.
As for "going downhill", in my VERY extensive experience, the difference in reliability between the Germans and Japanese has always been there, and probably always will be, mostly because of the extreme differences in philosophy at the corporate level. The Japanese are fanatical about managing supplier relationships and fixing problems before they get out of hand, and the Germans leave too much of that responsibility to their subcontractors [Bosch, Siemens, etc.], who don't have to deal with the end customer.
You buy German because the cars are different and you want the difference enough to accept this fact of life...if not, stick with Toyota or Nissan or Honda.
Thanks for your thoughts. I had a similar impression. It does seem like Toyotas, Hondas, Nissan's are the more reliable cars based on some literature I've read, but frankly their designs don't really appeal to me.
I love the designs from MB, BMW, and Audi and I loved the reliability of my old Toyota Supra. I'm willing to accept that these German cars aren't quite as reliable as Toyotas, but I just don't want to buy some POS car that needs an engine rebuild at 50,000. My supra didn't really need any non-maintenance work until it was near 120K.
The MB C230SS is going to be for my fiance. Actually, I might wait out for the 06 or 07. Rumor has it, they'll have a completely redesigned model. My Supra blew a head gasket at about 155K then I bought an 03 Mazda 6s. I also knew that Mazda's didn't have the reliability of Toyota/Honda/Nissan, but I liked it for other reasons.
What type of problems have you faced with your older MBs, BMWs or Audis? Minor stuff like starter, alternator, radiator, cooling, or bigger things like engine/transmissions?
...the news is better. Drivetrains, bodies, suspensions are all nearly bulletproof. There will be the occasional engine that develops a particular problem [example - the now-discontinued straight 6 had a weakness for head gaskets at high mileages], but PLENTY of Japanese cars are known for drivetrain weaknesses as the miles pile up [Toyota's oil sludge scandal, head gaskets on the T100] as well. In this regard, I would actually give a bit of the edge to MB over nearly everybody except Honda and maybe Nissan.
No, the problems that have built this air of "crisis" that you read about are nearly all electronics. The Germans went through a period where their engineers decided that because something was "possible", it ought to be put into production. The result was a series of in-the-field failures that have been a lesson for all concerned. I deliberately avoided any car from a German firm that smacked of reaching too far, too fast - our C240 does not have memory seats [the seat/key interface was a big bugaboo], a cell phone, a nav system, or any of the doo-dads that people seem to think must be in a car these days. BMW has come to grief over their infamous integrated control system, that nearly everybody in the world hates trying to use, and which fails at a high rate.
If you keep the car simple, after the usual debugging period of the first couple of thousand miles, its long-term prospects for being solid and strong are still good. In this respect, as the miles pile on, MBs still feel more rock-like and quiet than anything from the Japanese except maybe a Lexus LS [that car has been an extraordinary piece of work from Day One].
My 1982 Supra was a very satisfying car - but it got traded for an '84 MB 190E...in the end, I've always wound up migrating back to MB.
I put BMW [depending on the model, though] on a roughly equal footing with Mercedes....but not VW/Audi. Their cars have been even more trouble-prone, and there it can get serious real fast, because the dealers [especially VW dealers] have too often shown they are not up to the task.
If you keep a Mercedes properly maintained [which is actually no more demanding than doing the same for a Japanese car, but more expensive by a factor of 2x], the reward is a car that will feel good many miles down the road. They don't make rattletraps, as a rule. But you pay a big price for neglect if you try to take shortcuts with maintenance.
I need help. Battery died, since power source was interrupted, the radio needs the code entered. But it says the code from the card is incorrect! I can go to the dealer I guess, but is there something I'm missing that the book isn't telling me?
jrct9454 thanks for your help. I had the dealer work on my car and it seems OK now at high speeds (Hwy), but at low speeds it still feels the same slightly pull to the right (if taken the hands off the wheel just for testing purposes). I'm I being too sensitive or picky about this or it's normal?
High speed, low speed, any speed - assuming the road is not graded to the right [many are for drainage purposes], the car should track straight and true. Ours does, but only because the tech was willing to go outside the box and vary the caster a bit from one side vs the other. Caster has become an issue on the new Chrysler 300, as well, with a lot of early cars drifting to the right, and the solution being a caster adjustment kit that allows the tech to "tune" the alignment to solve the problem.
I recently purchased a '99 c230 Kompressor and have been experiencing a tremendous amount of problems with the gas tank. When I go to certain gas stations to fill up, the gas hose will automatically shut off while I'm filling up. I am assuming that the auto shut off senses that the gas level is where it needs to be and turns itself off. The gas is no where NEAR full, not even 1/8 tank! I have to run it extremely slow and takes upwards of 15 minutes to fill a tank completely. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there anything I can do? PLEASE HELP, MY SANITY DEPENDS ON IT!
I purchased a 2002 C320 and it came with the phone cradle for a Motorola V60. It is right underneath the armrest. I think it is an extra option to have the cradle, so it may not have it even though the controls are on the steering wheel. You also have to purchase a Mercedes Motorola V60, which is pricey (I think around $700!). I bought mine on ebay for under $250. I already had had a v60, but it was not Mercedes, so I had to purchase the Mercedes phone. I use verizon, so I just had to activate the phone. Then you can dial or pick up calls with the buttons on the steering wheel or the radio.
I bought a used 2002 C320 sedan in December, and now have 20k miles on it. I just had the flexible service done it last month (forgot if it was A or B, but they said it was the minor one). They did the usual things, oil changes, top off fluids, check belts, etc. I know that the dashboard light will come on when I need service, but do I need to have oil changes done more often, in between these services?
Also, I have the java (light tan) leather interior. I use the Meguiar's gold class cleaner/conditioner for regular cleaning. But does anyone have suggestions on what to use and & how to clean the nitty gritty crevices in the leather, like on the armrest and steering wheel? I am talking about those natural grains in the leather...can't seem to penetrate into those spots and it's starting to look kind of dirty.
I also had the brakes changed during my last visit, they told me there was 20% left until it hit the sensor. Did I get it changed too early, I mean it's only at 20k miles. They also had to change the power steering pump because it was making a whining noise when I turned. Luckily it was under warranty. Anyone else had this problem? I also have heard a click coming from the passenger dash. I thought it might have been the passenger side mirror or seats, but the dealership said it was probably the "step motor" and replaced it. It still makes the noise. It's really just a low-sounding click and I will hear it maybe once during my hour commute. I remember when they gave me a loaner 2004 C230 hatchback, I also heard the click, so I'm wondering what this could be, and whether or not I should take it back for the same problem.
It may be the purge valve for the evaporator canister as this was a pretty well-know issue. It sounds like a valve tick in some ways but it comes more from the 'outside' rather than inisde of the car.
Re: the leather a lot of folks use Lexol with good results it may be worht a shot.
On the brakes, it does seem a bit early but you never know what the car was driven like before you got it. I left mine til the sensors kicked in because it is not at all uncommon for MB to need rotors at the same time. They are 'soft' and often need to be changed so I figure why do it early as the reason to change pads early was to save the rotors in my experience.
Thanks for the info JR. You mention the purge valve for the evaporator canister, is this is normal, and nothing for me to worry about? I am not familiar with this.
I will try the Lexol and will wait till the sensor comes on next time for the brakes. Dealers are always recommending something to be done earlier than necessary, but I figure the car will let you know.
My 99' C230 kompressor hesitate when I take off...I have to step on it and then it takes off o.k.I went to a see someone to have it check He told me that it has something to do with the air intake or air sensor...after I spent a few hundred $$ on spark plugs and ignition coils.I work all my life on my cars but this one is more than I can handle....I believe the part he referred too cost over $300.so I am reluctant to go and change it...any idea/
I feel the same way. I bought a 2001 C240 and have had nothing but trouble with it. I have actually had it in for service 16 times in three years. Mostly for electrical crap that keeps failing and they cant seem to fix. I've talked to several people who have purchased MB's in the last three years (C / M / S classes) and all tell the same story. Constant problems. I thought I was getting a good car, but sadly this seems to be untrue. I'm selling it and going BMW!
I've had things go wrong like the windows quit working randomly, lights burn out about every two months, the key remotes failed, the AC controls had no effect on where the cold air was coming from, etc. Over a three year period, I have had 13 unscheduled repairs. Not too good.
Several of these repairs have been repeated 3 or 4 times because they continue to fail. The thing that worries me is that when the warranty expires, this thing is going to get really expensive.
Is it normal for the engine of a C230 kompressor to be so loud when the A/C is on? I used drive Accords in the past and never heard such weird noise when the air was on. This is my first Benz so any advise will be welcome. Thanks!
In the last 3 months, I've had to put coolant in several times. The first time the coolant light came on, I checked it and it was indeed low. I filled it up and went another 2 months till the next coolant light indicator came on. In the last month it's been happening more often. The engine temp is not elevating however. Anyone have similar problems and if so, how were they fixed?
My check engine light came on recently and when driving my Transmission doesn't shift to the next gear - my speedometer just stays below 40MPH. I know the problem is not with my transmission ( i only have 108 miles on the car). I took my car to a local mechanic shop- they checked it on their computer and i was told my transmission sensor is back and need to be replaced. I was referred to Transmission mechanic specialist for a second opinion- the so call specialist said the problem is with my Transmission computer. Can any one enlighten me what the transmission sensor or computer is all about. I want to get as much info i can before sending the car to a mercedes dealership. Thanks guys
There is a drivetrain computer that allows the transmission and engine to communicate with each other - such things as throttle position, rate of change in throttle demand, outside temp, recent history of driver behavior, all contribute to how the transmission shifts and responds to driver inputs. It also controls the most basic function of all - shifting from one gear to the next. When this chip fails, the transmission defaults to so-called "limp-home" mode [and yes, the CEL will be lit], and the trans will not shift out of second gear. The diagnosis is a good one - the chip needs to be replaced, and will not be cheap out of warranty. Sorry about that...
My 1 month old C230K can only be locked/unlocked by pointing the smartkey directly and close to the driver side sensor. The dealer tried to blame the tint put on rear glass window. After the tint was removed and problem still persisted, they replaced the so called SAM control module. To my disappointment, the glass and part of the headliner had to be removed to do this. Anyone has running into this problem? I knew there was another C230 that had same problem.
I have a 2004 C230K with only 1,514 miles on it and while driving on a hwy this weekend I got two small rock chips on the right rear door. I'm not even counting the already replaced windshield chipped on the 3rd day of ownership. Am I better off leaving the chips as they are or apply touch up paint?
does anyone have this issue? my 2005 C320's sunroof is not level. Dealer is looking into the problem. however, I noticed several others brand new C-class have the same issue that one side of sunroof is slightly UP and not fully flat when closed.
on mine, the right side is slight up and is so easily noticeable.
Thanks for reply. The transmission specialist fixed it , solution - per specialist the transmission computer was reset to default to its original setting from MB factory. Cost $150 for diagnosis, $75 for eletrical disagnosis/reset PC TOTAL $232 with taxs. What a deal - Luck me !
- Different lamps over the car went out more than 10 times, - Gas tank was empty, but the gauge showed I still have half tank of gas, which caused the car stopped in the middle of the high way. A couple of days ago, after I refill the gas, the gauge showed I have only 1/4 gas. - If I open the driver side door by pulling the handle from inside, sometimes, it opens one door, sometimes it opens all four doors. The above are the existing problem. Anyone have the same experience?
My 1 month old C230K can only be locked/unlocked by pointing the smartkey directly and close to the driver side sensor.
On my 02 C230K Coupe, my smartkey range is usually over 100ft when approaching from the "way down the row" (10 o'clock position).
When I have to park in the remote lot, I walk up on the car from behind, but don't typically bother to trigger it nearly as early. But it still easily has 30-50ft of range.
The dealer tried to blame the tint put on rear glass window. After the tint was removed and problem still persisted...
If the tint aftermarket, it was a convenient excuse for a lazy dealership to try to welch out on. I hope you're pressing them to pay to have the window re-tinted since its removal didn't solve the problem as they had claimed.
...I'd wager, than anyone on this board [14 since 1968], so I obviously think they make a good car. However, if you want something that won't "nickel and dime you to death", you are looking on the wrong continent by looking at ANY European brand....most definitely including Saab.
Buy a used MB because you like the way the car behaves on the road compared to the competition, but never under the illusion that it will be a car that is low-cost to own. If you want low-maintenance, you must buy Japanese.
Personal recommendation from experience? Look for a good used Acura RL or TL, or Lexus ES if you want something in this neck of the woods that will be less expensive to maintain. Or stick with the obvious, like a 2-year-old Accord. [I'm assuming FWD is OK since a Saab is apparently OK].
Understand, there is nothing inherently wrong with a '99 C280 at the price and miles you mention....just keep your expectations realistic about maintenance costs down the line, warranty or no warranty.
i have a 2003 Accord EX-V6. have experience with late model VW's as well. basically, got the Accord so i wouldn't have the Euro reliability problems.
but, the Accord has its own set of reliability problems. i have now decided that if whatever i own is going to be in the shop, might as well enjoy what i have
that said, i wouldn't want a 99 C280 if there are huge known issues. is the engine/transmission in the 99 C280 good and sturdy? what should one look at on a used model? anything out of the ordinary, or just basic car stuff? anything C280 specific?
This was the 3rd year for the transmission, and the second year for the engine, both of which have proven to be good and solid. Just make sure you can find the maintenance records -NEVER BUY A USED MB /BMW /AUDI /FILL-IN-THE-BLANK WITHOUT COMPLETE SERVICE RECORDS. If you're buying from an MB dealer, you can call the records up from their computer system. If a private party, the seller should have these records in his possession. Absent these records, I would never touch one of these cars whose history is unknown.
Otherwise, electronic gremlins are always the prime suspects in these cars, but the '99s were pretty well sorted in this respect - this is the 6th [and next-to-last] year of the W202 body, so there shouldn't be any big issues.
I've owned 4 Accords and they've all been trouble-free [absent the usual wear and tear as the miles pile up]...same with all but one of our 10+ Toyota products.
[I'm] looking to get a solid car that won't nickel and dime me, with a little style and tank-like build quality built in
In general, European cars tend to need more "care and feeding", which you very well may consider to be being nickeled and dimed.
I think that its just a different design philosophy: many old USA and contemporary Japanese cars are built with the idea that you could abuse them for a long time with nothing bad happening...but they then would need a lot of work to be pulled back.
The difference seems to me to be in the 3-7 year time period since it was new. For a Euro car, you very well might need a "major" system here or there worked on which would be a rarity on a Japanese car. The difference is that you're not going to have the "Toyota Phenominon" where after many months of zero costs, you're suddenly hit with 3 failures in a row that sum to $4K within two credit card billing cycles.
looking at Saab 9-5's too.
My car prior to my MB was a Saab. It was a disaster, and the first car that I've ever gotten rid of with less than 50K miles. It was a great car...when it ran. Between that and a heavy dose of Dealer Service Department Bullhockey over why the failures were occurring, I'll never recommend that car brand to anyone.
If you're nevertheless still thinking about a 9-5, recommend that you go find out which reskinned Opel (GM Europe) it is, and check on the Opel's reliability in conjunction with the 9-5. Just remember that a lot of the JD Power quality junk is just that: junk: the things that they measure such as "Initial Quality" are generally meaningless after the vehicle's a year old. What you really want to know is the vehicle's reliability at 4-6 years after it was built.
I agree with most of what you say, however I don't think that a Merc is 2x as expensive to maintain. Case in point of the cost of a "B" service when compared to fixed intervals at Honda or Toyota. Not only that, basic things like driveshaft boots that crack very early, and are quite expensive to replace are always things that seem to be overlooked when people mention Japanese cost of ownership.
I just purchased a new C230 sedan. So far, so good. What is the experience on the extended warranty and the cost. I didn't purchase it originally but I may in the future. Any thoughts
-It's almost an essential purchase if you plan to keep the car beyond the original warranty. Any significant failure can run up repair bills that can exceed $1000 at the drop of a hat.
-Absolutely DO NOT just buy the warranty from your selling dealer without shopping around and getting competitive bids. The warranty is like anything else in this business: there is a suggested MSRP, a dealer cost, and a markup. Many dealers will settle for less profit to build a business in the warranties. Call or e-mail every dealer in the MBUSA website until you get the price you want. [In our case, our selling dealer agreed to match the lowest price I could find, which came from the dealer in Chico CA - the F & I mgr there has made a career of discounting the extended warranty and selling a gazillion of them to savvy internet buyers.]
Understand, I'm only referring to the official MBUSA factory-backed extended warranty, not the dozens of third-party warranties sold by brokers and others.
Our 7/100 extension for the '02 C240 was discounted at least 20% from the going price at the time.
I just purchased a C230. Really love to drive it, but not even 3000 miles yet and had to have it serviced for malfunctioning emission coil. Not once, but twice. Do you know if I can purchase an extended warranty towards the end of the manufacturers warranty. (Next 4.5 years?)
You can buy the factory extended warranty from any dealer [as noted in my post above] any time during the FIRST YEAR after a new car purchase.
If you wait until 366 days after the car goes into service, then you have to look for one of the many 3rd party warranties out there that are not sponsored by MBUSA - dealers generally sell them, too, and the internet is teaming with them. But the factory extension has to be purchased within 12 months of the original new-car sale....you can't wait until the end of the new-car warranty, as you can with some other makes.
I was shocked when I checked the pressure for the first time since I bought the car a few months ago. The front tires had 35 psi and 45 psi for the rear. Way over the recommended pressures.
Word of advice to all new owners. Check your tires pressure!!!
after getting the oil changed saturday, the car stalls when going from R to D. it seems to drop idle and shut off. it did it to me once sat., and twice to my wife yesterday. Is this an oil pressure issue? I had an independant (chain tire store) change it. they have been doing all my oil changes for the last ten years, and did this car the last time. I took them an OEM filter and watched the whole process. Not sure what to think. Car is a 95 with 39800 original miles.
And I'm not sure that your symptoms have anything to do with the oil change. You need to get the car to [gasp?] an MB specialist and get a diagnosis. The problem you describe could literally have a dozen possible causes, and this medium isn't an ideal one to do a diagnosis.
I always suspect electronics whenever a car refuses to run smoothly - the drivetrain computer comes to mind given your symptoms - but who knows without hooking it up to the diagnostic system in the shop?
Thanks for your response Re: Extended warranty. I was wondering if you or anyone have heard of a faulty emission coil being a common problem. My C230 is at the dealer for the 3rd time. It only has 3000 miles. The problem was fixed the first two times, but that lasted about 1 to 2 weeks each time. What happens is the car begins to ride rough and the engine light goes on. First trip to the dealer they replaced a faulty emission coil and removed and cleaned a spark plug. Second visit the replaced a faulty emission coil and replaced a spark plug. Any ideas?
Nope, that's a new one. Aside from the relatively rare possibility of multiple failures of the same part, my next focus in your case would be the rest of the electrical system, and what might be causing the coils to fail. Check voltages and amps being fed to the ignition system.
Need some help resolving a headlight problem on a 98 C230.
The problem is with the low beams...they are inordinately dim. High beams appear normal. The headlight problem light on the dash comes on momentarily after turning the lights on.
I am suspecting a faulty switch BUT have not checked any voltage drops at the headlights because the high beams are normal. I also do not see any difference in the low beam intensity when I pull the switch to the out (up) position although the internal switch light does illuminate.
I am looking at purchasing a 2002 C320 Wagon with approx. 85K miles on it for $19K. All scheduled maintanance has been performed, records show no major problems. Cutting to the chase, the mileage scares me. What is the long term reliability potential of this drivetrain? I don't mind having a few minor problems here and there, but generally like them contained to things that don't stop me in my tracks.
Other cars in the running are a 2001 Volvo V70 T5 58K miles, 2002 Outback Wagon 39K miles, 2001 Saab 9-5 Wagon 45K miles, and a new Mazda6 wagon. All are around $17-19K, Suburu a little less, the Mazda more, of course.
...I'd probably take the Mazda. All of the others, including the Subaru, have their own set of issues, both big and small. Absent an extended, comprehensive warranty, I would never touch any used MB with over 50k miles on it, unless you are a skilled mechanic or closely allied with one. We love our '02 C240 sedan, but the financial risk of all of the things that can go wrong with a higher mileage MB seems pretty steep to me.
I have a 2001 C320 with 58K miles. Yesterday I received the above malfunction message. Does this mean that my battery is dieing or is it something more complicated?
It could mean that, but the question is why? What component is draining the system? The only way to know that is to get it to a service dept and find out.
Help, my 98 C230 with only 78,000 miles has been a wonderful car since we bought it new but lately has been having serious window problems. A year ago we were told by our dealer that the rear windows were "out of synch" and a free service (thank you very much Fletcher Jones MB!) solved the problem. Lately, and I must point out we hardly ever have anyone in the back seat so these windows sit dormant 99.5% of the time, the windows go down in one push of the button but must be tricked into coming back up. This means pushing the button twenty or more times and usually grabbing the window between your palms and lifting while someone works the button.
Not exactly a pretty sight for such a fine automobile.
I am told the motors are worn out (as a person with over 25 years of electro-mechanical and electronics experience lack of use will NOT wear out a motor!) and they need to be replaced. I think this is a latent design defect related to the pinch sensor as I understand this same problem abounds on other MB models of the 97-2000 vintage just by looking around my own neighborhood.
If this is a sensor related issue a trim-pot adjustment to the control board or the addition of an external resistor in parallel can recalibrate the circuit and save me a $1000 repair bill for an item that in now way should be worn out. As a quick reference, the front driver's window must go up and down 10 times a day and has never had any issues.
Any suggestions? Anyone have experience with MB USA supporting a repair/replacement? My call to MB USA was not handled well at all.
Would like to know your experienced opinion on changing the oil at 13K miles. I have heard some MB owners changed it at mid point (around 5 - 6 K miles).
Comments
Over the years, I've owned 50+ cars since 1962, fourteen MBs among them, and nearly as many Toyotas. At the moment, our one and only car is an '02 C240. Apart from a couple of minor problems early on [wheel alignment and a differential leak] that were competently handled by the dealer, we have been very happy with this car. But I would never compare its long-term costs and reliability outlook with anything from Toyota [I am much less impressed with Mazda in this regard].
Nothing from the Japanese in this price category combines the ride, handling, refinement, safety, and overall touring competence of a C or a BMW 3er. But you have to be prepared for the fact that it will be a higher maintenance companion than its Japanese counterparts.
Frankly, if this issue is really important to you, and you can afford a C230SS, you should be looking at the Lexus IS and the Infiniti G as well. Both ride too firmly for my taste, but then so does the C230 vs our C240, so they are more direct competitors for you than they were for me. The IS is tighter inside than the C, but the G has more room, if that is a tie-breaker.
As for "going downhill", in my VERY extensive experience, the difference in reliability between the Germans and Japanese has always been there, and probably always will be, mostly because of the extreme differences in philosophy at the corporate level. The Japanese are fanatical about managing supplier relationships and fixing problems before they get out of hand, and the Germans leave too much of that responsibility to their subcontractors [Bosch, Siemens, etc.], who don't have to deal with the end customer.
You buy German because the cars are different and you want the difference enough to accept this fact of life...if not, stick with Toyota or Nissan or Honda.
I love the designs from MB, BMW, and Audi and I loved the reliability of my old Toyota Supra. I'm willing to accept that these German cars aren't quite as reliable as Toyotas, but I just don't want to buy some POS car that needs an engine rebuild at 50,000. My supra didn't really need any non-maintenance work until it was near 120K.
The MB C230SS is going to be for my fiance. Actually, I might wait out for the 06 or 07. Rumor has it, they'll have a completely redesigned model. My Supra blew a head gasket at about 155K then I bought an 03 Mazda 6s. I also knew that Mazda's didn't have the reliability of Toyota/Honda/Nissan, but I liked it for other reasons.
What type of problems have you faced with your older MBs, BMWs or Audis? Minor stuff like starter, alternator, radiator, cooling, or bigger things like engine/transmissions?
No, the problems that have built this air of "crisis" that you read about are nearly all electronics. The Germans went through a period where their engineers decided that because something was "possible", it ought to be put into production. The result was a series of in-the-field failures that have been a lesson for all concerned. I deliberately avoided any car from a German firm that smacked of reaching too far, too fast - our C240 does not have memory seats [the seat/key interface was a big bugaboo], a cell phone, a nav system, or any of the doo-dads that people seem to think must be in a car these days. BMW has come to grief over their infamous integrated control system, that nearly everybody in the world hates trying to use, and which fails at a high rate.
If you keep the car simple, after the usual debugging period of the first couple of thousand miles, its long-term prospects for being solid and strong are still good. In this respect, as the miles pile on, MBs still feel more rock-like and quiet than anything from the Japanese except maybe a Lexus LS [that car has been an extraordinary piece of work from Day One].
My 1982 Supra was a very satisfying car - but it got traded for an '84 MB 190E...in the end, I've always wound up migrating back to MB.
I put BMW [depending on the model, though] on a roughly equal footing with Mercedes....but not VW/Audi. Their cars have been even more trouble-prone, and there it can get serious real fast, because the dealers [especially VW dealers] have too often shown they are not up to the task.
If you keep a Mercedes properly maintained [which is actually no more demanding than doing the same for a Japanese car, but more expensive by a factor of 2x], the reward is a car that will feel good many miles down the road. They don't make rattletraps, as a rule. But you pay a big price for neglect if you try to take shortcuts with maintenance.
This is my first posting so please be kind!
I recently purchased a '99 c230 Kompressor and have been experiencing a tremendous amount of problems with the gas tank. When I go to certain gas stations to fill up, the gas hose will automatically shut off while I'm filling up. I am assuming that the auto shut off senses that the gas level is where it needs to be and turns itself off. The gas is no where NEAR full, not even 1/8 tank! I have to run it extremely slow and takes upwards of 15 minutes to fill a tank completely. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there anything I can do? PLEASE HELP, MY SANITY DEPENDS ON IT!
I just bought a '99 c230 Kompressor' and the driver side window stopped rolling up or down, Is there any setting that got turned on , etc.
Also, I am looking into putting in a CD changer but heard about FP limitations, Can any one elaborate on it.
Thanks
Also, I have the java (light tan) leather interior. I use the Meguiar's gold class cleaner/conditioner for regular cleaning. But does anyone have suggestions on what to use and & how to clean the nitty gritty crevices in the leather, like on the armrest and steering wheel? I am talking about those natural grains in the leather...can't seem to penetrate into those spots and it's starting to look kind of dirty.
I also had the brakes changed during my last visit, they told me there was 20% left until it hit the sensor. Did I get it changed too early, I mean it's only at 20k miles. They also had to change the power steering pump because it was making a whining noise when I turned. Luckily it was under warranty. Anyone else had this problem? I also have heard a click coming from the passenger dash. I thought it might have been the passenger side mirror or seats, but the dealership said it was probably the "step motor" and replaced it. It still makes the noise. It's really just a low-sounding click and I will hear it maybe once during my hour commute. I remember when they gave me a loaner 2004 C230 hatchback, I also heard the click, so I'm wondering what this could be, and whether or not I should take it back for the same problem.
Any input would be appreciated...thanks!
Re: the leather a lot of folks use Lexol with good results it may be worht a shot.
On the brakes, it does seem a bit early but you never know what the car was driven like before you got it. I left mine til the sensors kicked in because it is not at all uncommon for MB to need rotors at the same time. They are 'soft' and often need to be changed so I figure why do it early as the reason to change pads early was to save the rotors in my experience.
JR
I will try the Lexol and will wait till the sensor comes on next time for the brakes. Dealers are always recommending something to be done earlier than necessary, but I figure the car will let you know.
Glad to be of help.
JR
Several of these repairs have been repeated 3 or 4 times because they continue to fail. The thing that worries me is that when the warranty expires, this thing is going to get really expensive.
Anyone has running into this problem? I knew there was another C230 that had same problem.
on mine, the right side is slight up and is so easily noticeable.
takeoutboy
- Gas tank was empty, but the gauge showed I still have half tank of gas, which caused the car stopped in the middle of the high way. A couple of days ago, after I refill the gas, the gauge showed I have only 1/4 gas.
- If I open the driver side door by pulling the handle from inside, sometimes, it opens one door, sometimes it opens all four doors.
The above are the existing problem. Anyone have the same experience?
On my 02 C230K Coupe, my smartkey range is usually over 100ft when approaching from the "way down the row" (10 o'clock position).
When I have to park in the remote lot, I walk up on the car from behind, but don't typically bother to trigger it nearly as early. But it still easily has 30-50ft of range.
The dealer tried to blame the tint put on rear glass window. After the tint was removed and problem still persisted...
If the tint aftermarket, it was a convenient excuse for a lazy dealership to try to welch out on. I hope you're pressing them to pay to have the window re-tinted since its removal didn't solve the problem as they had claimed.
-hh
would a 99 C280 Sport with 49k miles be a bad decision? can get an extended warranty though my credit union. price is $16k.
i will post in Maint and Repair forum too.
looking to get a solid car that won't nickel and dime me, with a little style and tank-like build quality built in
looking at Saab 9-5's too.
Thanks!
Buy a used MB because you like the way the car behaves on the road compared to the competition, but never under the illusion that it will be a car that is low-cost to own. If you want low-maintenance, you must buy Japanese.
Personal recommendation from experience? Look for a good used Acura RL or TL, or Lexus ES if you want something in this neck of the woods that will be less expensive to maintain. Or stick with the obvious, like a 2-year-old Accord. [I'm assuming FWD is OK since a Saab is apparently OK].
Understand, there is nothing inherently wrong with a '99 C280 at the price and miles you mention....just keep your expectations realistic about maintenance costs down the line, warranty or no warranty.
but, the Accord has its own set of reliability problems. i have now decided that if whatever i own is going to be in the shop, might as well enjoy what i have
that said, i wouldn't want a 99 C280 if there are huge known issues. is the engine/transmission in the 99 C280 good and sturdy? what should one look at on a used model? anything out of the ordinary, or just basic car stuff? anything C280 specific?
thanks for the reply!
Otherwise, electronic gremlins are always the prime suspects in these cars, but the '99s were pretty well sorted in this respect - this is the 6th [and next-to-last] year of the W202 body, so there shouldn't be any big issues.
I've owned 4 Accords and they've all been trouble-free [absent the usual wear and tear as the miles pile up]...same with all but one of our 10+ Toyota products.
In general, European cars tend to need more "care and feeding", which you very well may consider to be being nickeled and dimed.
I think that its just a different design philosophy: many old USA and contemporary Japanese cars are built with the idea that you could abuse them for a long time with nothing bad happening...but they then would need a lot of work to be pulled back.
The difference seems to me to be in the 3-7 year time period since it was new. For a Euro car, you very well might need a "major" system here or there worked on which would be a rarity on a Japanese car. The difference is that you're not going to have the "Toyota Phenominon" where after many months of zero costs, you're suddenly hit with 3 failures in a row that sum to $4K within two credit card billing cycles.
looking at Saab 9-5's too.
My car prior to my MB was a Saab. It was a disaster, and the first car that I've ever gotten rid of with less than 50K miles. It was a great car...when it ran. Between that and a heavy dose of Dealer Service Department Bullhockey over why the failures were occurring, I'll never recommend that car brand to anyone.
If you're nevertheless still thinking about a 9-5, recommend that you go find out which reskinned Opel (GM Europe) it is, and check on the Opel's reliability in conjunction with the 9-5. Just remember that a lot of the JD Power quality junk is just that: junk: the things that they measure such as "Initial Quality" are generally meaningless after the vehicle's a year old. What you really want to know is the vehicle's reliability at 4-6 years after it was built.
-hh
-It's almost an essential purchase if you plan to keep the car beyond the original warranty. Any significant failure can run up repair bills that can exceed $1000 at the drop of a hat.
-Absolutely DO NOT just buy the warranty from your selling dealer without shopping around and getting competitive bids. The warranty is like anything else in this business: there is a suggested MSRP, a dealer cost, and a markup. Many dealers will settle for less profit to build a business in the warranties. Call or e-mail every dealer in the MBUSA website until you get the price you want. [In our case, our selling dealer agreed to match the lowest price I could find, which came from the dealer in Chico CA - the F & I mgr there has made a career of discounting the extended warranty and selling a gazillion of them to savvy internet buyers.]
Understand, I'm only referring to the official MBUSA factory-backed extended warranty, not the dozens of third-party warranties sold by brokers and others.
Our 7/100 extension for the '02 C240 was discounted at least 20% from the going price at the time.
If you wait until 366 days after the car goes into service, then you have to look for one of the many 3rd party warranties out there that are not sponsored by MBUSA - dealers generally sell them, too, and the internet is teaming with them. But the factory extension has to be purchased within 12 months of the original new-car sale....you can't wait until the end of the new-car warranty, as you can with some other makes.
Word of advice to all new owners. Check your tires pressure!!!
I always suspect electronics whenever a car refuses to run smoothly - the drivetrain computer comes to mind given your symptoms - but who knows without hooking it up to the diagnostic system in the shop?
The problem is with the low beams...they are inordinately dim. High beams appear normal. The headlight problem light on the dash comes on momentarily after turning the lights on.
I am suspecting a faulty switch BUT have not checked any voltage drops at the headlights because the high beams are normal. I also do not see any difference in the low beam intensity when I pull the switch to the out (up) position although the internal switch light does illuminate.
Any inputs would be deeply appreciated.
Thanks......Dave
Other cars in the running are a 2001 Volvo V70 T5 58K miles, 2002 Outback Wagon 39K miles, 2001 Saab 9-5 Wagon 45K miles, and a new Mazda6 wagon. All are around $17-19K, Suburu a little less, the Mazda more, of course.
Not exactly a pretty sight for such a fine automobile.
I am told the motors are worn out (as a person with over 25 years of electro-mechanical and electronics experience lack of use will NOT wear out a motor!) and they need to be replaced. I think this is a latent design defect related to the pinch sensor as I understand this same problem abounds on other MB models of the 97-2000 vintage just by looking around my own neighborhood.
If this is a sensor related issue a trim-pot adjustment to the control board or the addition of an external resistor in parallel can recalibrate the circuit and save me a $1000 repair bill for an item that in now way should be worn out. As a quick reference, the front driver's window must go up and down 10 times a day and has never had any issues.
Any suggestions? Anyone have experience with MB USA supporting a repair/replacement? My call to MB USA was not handled well at all.
Thank you.
All opinions are very much appreciated.