Toyota Engine Sludge Problem

john339

Hi Carlito,

I would not give in too easily, from what you have indicated so far, I think the facts are on your side (dealerships changed oil every 5000 miles, '97 Camry still sludged). Toyota, in my opinion, is well known now for their hard-ball tactics.

Can you clarify, is Toyota saying they will not reimburse you because you CURRENTLY do not own the car, or because you do not have proof that you owned the Camry when it sludged? Also, what year did the car sludge?

Your situation is an interesting one, and provides us another example of why I think Toyota's SPA (and customer service) is seriously flawed.

Examples like yours, combined with the other shortcomings of the SPA, means this Toyota sludge issue has a long, long way to go before it reaches closure, in my opinion.

zielinw

Carlito,

I agree with John, don't give up so quickly. You must some have reasonable proof of ownership of your Toyota during the time period from the sludging, through the fixing, through the subsequent sale.

Let me give some suggestions:

1. Oil receipts with your car (it probably indicates the make, model, mileage, and license number).

2. Vehicle registration, since you keep most of your receipts, I bet you also have your old state registration documents.

3. Loan papers, if you had a loan on the car, that would indicate ownership.

4. Vehicle insurance, again does that not indicate who owns the car, and include the VIN?

I could probably come up with some other examples, but again a reasonable person (we are assuming Toyota rep being reasonable), would review these data and conclude that you owned this vehicle during the period covered by the SPA.

If not, call the BBB and file a complaint, but you should not have to good that far.

Cliffy -- What do you think Toyota's response would be to Carlito's SPA ownership coverage request?

john339

Carlito,
since you are new to the board, you may not have seen some of the media articles on the Toyota sludge issue.

The main Automotive Industry journal, Automotive News was first with the story (and was probably the impetus for the SPA).

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=38302

Also, the LA Times:

http://cgi.latimes.com/class/highway1/yourwheels/20020313/t000018575.html"

megawattblues

How many miles were on your Camry when it sludged? Was it still within the warranty period? Possible out-of-warranty bad head gasket, causing the sludge?

Reason I ask, is if my car gets all work done by the dealer, and I have receipts, and am still within the warranty period, and the car gets sludge or anything, then the dealer will have to fix it on their dime!

If not, then watch for me on the evening news!

innovations

I have to agree with zeilnw, john and megawatt..

Make sure you bring Joselito with you and let Toyota know that you've met all their conditions.

I'd imagine it would be easy enough to show proof of ownership. Not to mention, your other records showing that maintenance was performed at the dealerships.

losangelesemt

Thanks for filling in the blanks. I suppose failing to tell you that the original filter was on your car earlier on, does seem a little weird. I think it just punctuates the whole theme of this discussion ... the fact of feeling left out or not informed. I'm not so sure the main beef in here is the actual sludge problem itself, but moreso of how Toyota has handled the problem. I don't think anyone in this thread feels like Toyota has let them in or everything they know. Not too many Americans like the feeling of wool over their eyes, we'll see.

jj35

Carlito - you have the wrong person. I said NOTHING about wanting to see your receipts. That was someone else. I said that the SPA requires that you provide proof of ownership but thought it was worth the effort to give the 800 number a call. If the SPA is a fair policy, you should be reimbursed for your repair costs if:

- You had one of the vehicles covered under the SPA.
- It sludged.
- You have proof that you owned the vehicle when it sludged.
- You have proof that you paid for sludge repairs when you owned it.
- You have proof that you changed the oil at least once per year prior to developing sludge.

If all of the above apply then it would be very unfair for Toyota not to reimburse you for your repair costs.

I also suggested earlier that you file a complaint with the NHTSA at www.nhtsa.gov. I also think that you should contact the Federal Trade Commission. You can file an on-line complaint at www.ftc.gov. They investigate unfair warranty practices.

carlitosway

I am really sorry that I posted that inquiry because I think I opened another can of enchilada here. However, to inform everyone here, my 97 Toyota Camry Sludged up last year around january with about 55,000 miles. To make it short, one of the Toyota dealership here in SoCal( name will remain anonymous) refused to acknowledge warranty work since according to them its not part of the warranty. I am not a wrench turner myself and I am not very good with these mechanical things. I am just a regular guy who happened to had a problem with a car. I would not call myself naive or stupid either because I sold that car after I got it fixed and traded it in for a Honda Accord(maybe a smart move or maybe not, time will tell). If Toyota feels that I don't deserve that SPA well I would not waste my time trying to recover what I lost, my time is more important than chasing a few thousand dollars. However, I am not a type of person who likes being screwed upon and if Toyota feels that they can screw me, so be it, that Camry will be my last Toyota.
If people here thinks that I deserve more than what Toyota gave me or not give me, many thanks and I truly appreciate it. But life goes on and there's more to life than a sludge engine.

jj35

Carlito - Even if you don't want to pursue getting your thousands of dollars back, you may want to file a report at www.ftc.gov so that they can determine if this is a common practice with Toyota. It may help someone else out even if you are not wanting to pursue it.

Good luck.

canc

"0K between changes is great, is that synthetic oil?"

To my knowledge, Lexus puts in Toyota regular engine oil in their cars.

carlitosway

Please accept my apologies, I mistakenly typed in your name from my previous postings. I will try to do what you recommended but I don't think it will make alot of difference, plus I don't like being involved with government inquiries and such.
jj35,john339, I have a feeling that there are probably alot of Toyota owners out there who had the same problem that I had who either are not being informed or just apathetic. Life is just too hectic these days.

zielinw

Carlito,

It is always better to get out of a bad situation by trading the problem, and moving on. You have added valuable information to this posting area, and I am sure many of the other readers agree.

But, for many of us trading is not a viable option. What we are looking for is a fair and reasonable response to valid warranty problems from the manufacture. From reading your response, it appears that Toyota is still trying to obfuscate their obligations.

And lets look at it another way. Most of us are not buying late model Toyotas so we can be part-time auto mechanics. Nor, are we trying to become part-time lawyers. Nor, wild-eyed consumer advocates.

We just want a reliable car, that we can depend on with a normal maintenance schedule. And, it appears that some of the current Toyota engines may have a maintenance reliability problem.

john339

carlito-

I forgot who asked for the receipts but I think it was an innocent rhetorical question that tied into some previous discussions on this board.

Many people here have felt that Toyota has been 'demeaning' to their customers on this issue. For example:

The HEAD of Toyota Customer Sevice actually made the following statement, its even in the Toyota Sludge press release:

"Toyota understands that customers can sometimes be confused about how to properly maintain their vehicles," commented Daly.

It would appear that the head honcho of Toyota's Customer Service thinks some of his customers are too stupid, excuse me, some customers are 'confused' about how to maintain their Camry/Sienna/Avalon/Highlander. I wonder if he thinks owners of the non-sludging Corollas are brilliant rocket scientists who are not confused by those scientific oil change intervals.

Frankly I think Toyota is "confused" about how to write a maintenance schedule that reflects the realities of their "maintenance sensitive" vehicles like the Camry/Sienna/Avalon/Highlander, in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing you experiences with us Carlito!

lichtenberger

We just purchased a 1998 Sienna about a month ago. On our way home (a 4 hour drive) we stopped for dinner. When we started the engine, it smoked. We drove home and the next morning it did the same thing. We checked the oil and it was down 1 quart. I took it to the our Toyota Dealer who told me we had sludge in the engine. They said we would have to wait for a Regional Rep. to come look at it to see if Toyota would pay for it. A week and a half later they approved the work under the SPA. We were told that the SPA was set up for "people like us who bought a car that had problems resulting from previous owner lack of maintenance". I have learned different from the postings here. They have had it apart for 1 month and are waiting on the bearings. The service manager informs me that the car still had on the original oil filter. How can that be? The previous owner sent us a letter stating that he had changed the oil changed every 5,000 miles at various oil change businesses. Would these businesses actually change the oil without replacing the oil filter even once? This car also had a 35K maintenance check and everything checked out okay. How is that possible? The service manager says they may not have seen anything at that time. The car only has 37,000 miles now. But we were supposed to see something before we bought it? It never smoked when we test drove it and the oil looked clean at that time. After it is fixed, will we have more problems down the road? I will have the dealership change the oil every 3,000 miles. My husband has always changed the oil on our cars every 3,000 miles. But this time I want receipts from a Toyota dealership in case we have any more problems. Should we try to get rid of this car as soon as we can or keep it and hope for the best? The reason we bought a Toyota van was because we previously owned a Supra before getting our current Voyager, which we have had nothing but problems with. The Supra never had any problems and we knew Toyota had a good reputation for their engines. At least they did before this all came up.

fxashun

is starting to sound all too familiar. Anyone hit google with that phrase yet?

Al people with this engine should go and buy a Mobile 1 oil filter. They are $10 a piece. There's no way any oil change facility just keeps them around. Just for insurance though rotate between the Mobile 1 and a PureOne. These are some of the top rated filters AND you'll know at least the filter has been changed.

thewolverine

K & N and Wix are two other high quality alternatives.

bobistheoilguy

"bob: I've just had my engine rebuilt by Toyota and it has been smoking upon startup ever since. I driven it 1000 miles in the last three weeks (see above) and it is still smoking. Any ideas?"

The valve stem seals are what normally causes puffs of smoke when starting after sitting for a period of time. Oil sits in the head and this is the only place that it can leak from into the cyl so when first starting it would puff.

My suggestion would be to take it back and get a service writer to have it looked at and maintain all paperwork showing that you are having this done. This will document your complaint/ problem and hold toyota responsible for this problem if goes on.

It is quite possible that to save time, that dealership may have done nothing more than pull the heads and oil pan, washed them down and reinstalled it depending on the severity of your engine and sludge.

I have also found a local company that has a machine that can completely desludge and engine with in hours. They charge 300.00 to the dealer for this service. Now my question about this is, since it does a good job removing sludge, what kind of chemical is being used and how does it react to the seals. A harsh chemical can dry out and cause a seal to crack thus causing leaks, this would include the valvestems.

Jamie, If they had used this type of cleaning on your engine, I'd also watch out for and evidence of oil leaks from your front and back main seals as well. This type of thing would take a while for it to become evident since the seals would need some time to start to dry out.

A prime example of a chemical affecting a seal is a very popular penetrating oil called PB Blaster. spray this on a seal and you'll see it will cause it to crack after a short time.

Bob

bobistheoilguy

Ed,
When checking the oil change place for what they are using in your vehicle, API is no longer using SJ, you need to now start looking for the SL oil.

Just thought you'd like to know.

regards,
bob

jjbula2

Been reading the posts wondering if I should sell a 2001 Camry. My Camry has 8500 miles and I like to change my own oil (no receipts). The options I have considered include selling the car and sucking up 2K+ in transaction costs/lost residual value or doing everything I can to avoid sludge and hope for the best. Before you think I'm sticking my head in the sand I can say that before this sludge problem I have been happy with Toyota products. I think as Toyota and the public get smarter on the problem Toyota will be more reasonable in covering damage. Just a hunch. (I am pissed at Toyota for blaming owners, but this unusual problem creates symptoms that are the same as infrequent changing) Besides I really like my Camry

My plan--

Use only AMSOIL or Mobil 1 5W30
Use high quality filter--Purolator or Mobil 1

Synthetic oils (AMSOIL seems best) have less volatility and oxidize less. Regular oils have polymers and 'enhancers' that tend to boil off (and oxidize) during use. With the sludge problem appearing to come from boil off that cannot escape the crank case and oxidized oil, synthetic oil should significantly reduce the sludge effect. I think synthetic oil use is a cheap alternative (see 2K+ in costs) to selling a car I really like. 6K oil changes with a synthetic may be better for the engine than 3K changes with a regular oil. I'll let you know in about 50K miles.

canc

I'm not sure if there are outstanding benefits to using synthetic oil in your Camry over dino oil. Maybe Bobistheoilguy would have a better answer for this than I would.

The synthetic oil thread has been weighing the overall advantages of synthetic oil vs. SL- grade oil. My conclusion is that there isn't a significant advantage for a mass-market synthetic (Mobil 1) over the SL-grade oil, especially if you consider the extra costs. Maybe you'd be better off doing 3,000 mile oil changes with SL oil.

Want to step in here Bobistheoilguy?

canc

Interesting...

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/bm/97-01camry.htm

bobistheoilguy

"I will say none of the vehicles I personally examined for the sludge condition, were in my opinion properly maintained, and oil sample analysis bore this out"

There is no way an oil analysis can determine that an engine was not properly maintained UNLESS, you do what we term as a trend analysis which I'm quite sure you only did one AFTER the failure had occured which in MOST ALL cases cannot tell you WHAT CAUSED the failure but what the END RESULT of that failure has produced.

Oil analysis when used properly helps you see what is happening between oil cylce changes but for it to show anything this must be done during each oil change to trend out the condition of the oil and THAT engine since each engine and driver is different not all of them will show the same results.

I have analysis that shows where the oil has been sheared down one complete level of viscosity from 30wt to 20wt in a period between 3-4000 miles on the toyota motors and that in my opinion tells me that even a properly maintained engine according to toyotas 5 and 7500 mile drains would / can still result in the sludge.

Now in this case the oil was not sludged up but thinned down. If we were to have left that oil in there for an on going 5,000 mile drain, I'd speculate the oil would then become increasingly thicker and the start of gellation would have been eminant. The oil analysis would have show a higher visc and the additive levels would have been exceedingly low and wear metals increasing.

This is a problem with oil analysis. Most people who do this, Think that one sample would tell you what caused this when in fact it shows nothing but end results. Take for example of a sludged engine which showed glycol in the oil(like in gimps case). since one sample was only taken after the engine failed, question would be, did the engine sludge first then overheated the engine such that it created a leaking head gasket thus glycol got into the system or did the glycol leak in prior and caused the oil to gell up? This cannot be determined with after the fact oil analysis.

bob

theiceman

Your post indicated...

the vehicle had its 35k maintenance done
after that maintenance, it was found to have been sludged
you were informed that the original oil filter was still on it

Did you get the 35k service done or was this something the seller did? Was this service done at a Toyota dealer? Do you have the receipt and does it indicate that the oil and filter were changed?

Canc - Consistent with what you say, I've heard and read that, provided you use a good quality dino oil and replace it frequently, there are no discernable advantages to using synthetic. Except one - on start-ups. Particularly for engines left cold for several hours between start-ups. And that, apparently is due to synth's apparent superiority in adhering to vertical surfaces for long periods. Sounds good to me.

Perhaps another advantage is that, when you ask for synth, you'll be getting a good quality oil. Going to an unknown or even bulk-barrel dino oil raises the question of the quality of the oil.

I'll stick with synth - if I turn out to be wrong, I'll only be out about an extra $85/year over 5 oil changes. And that's Canadian dollars too!

bobistheoilguy

A synth can offer a slight advantage over the standard conventional SL oil in respect of VI improvers. Conventional oil lots of times rely more on the VI improvers whereas synths don't. Since Toyota is the only car company to my knowledge that seems to have an inherent problem with the sludge moreso than others, and they are the only company that has actuall GEARS in there engines, This tends to be the biggest problem is the shearing of the vi's.

Now let me state though, If you want to run to 5,000 miles between drains, I would strongly recomment a synth. (preffably one that is API certified). If you are willing to do 3,000 mile drains, Then a good SL grade dino will work with no problems as many people that follow this have proven out with no problem.

The real advantage of the new SL over the SJ is the SL can handle the heat better to such a point of being near as good as a synth and will not experience the thickening as much as the sj oil did do to burnoff.

ICEMAN... synths do not adhere to walls better than dino and protect better on start up. It will pump easier in colder weather but that's the only way it protects better during startup is by better flow in cold weather, not by adhereing to the walls. We covered that issue in the synth thread a while back.

canc

Thanks guys for the info... so I guess synth would be a good choice, judging from both of your posts. I was considering synth way before this thread appeared, since winters here (and I know iceman here can relate) can be rough. Having the low temp pour point is just an added benefit. Hope this means the car can heat up more quickly too!

theiceman

I guess another myth that I bought into. hmmm.

sinjin_dog

Related to Toyota, you mention about Previa being hotter engine due to the location.?????
Can you tell me more about it? You can e mail me at sinjin_dog@yahoo.com
I have 2000 Camry (4cy) no sludge, 96 Previa, no sludge
Thanks

lichtenberger

I just posted above regarding the '98 Sienna we just bought. The same day we took our van to be serviced a well known couple in our community was trading in their 2000 Sienna (exactly the same otherwise) into the dealership. Well, I know she had the oil changed every 3,000 at a Toyota dealership and had all maintenance done. She was experiencing no problems but wanted a Camry instead. We were considering trading in the one we just bought for this one. I had the feeling from the posts that cars that had oil changes every 3,000 were okay, but those that changed their oil every 5,000 to 7,500 were experiencing sludge. But, now I'm reading that Toyota's oil is one of the worst out there. So, this 2000 having oil changes at the dealership may not have been the best thing. Anyone have a suggestion? Should we keep the van after having it rebuilt and see how it goes? Should we trade it in for this other that had oil changes every 3,000 at a dealership?

johnmcdan

> The service manager informs me that the car still had on the original
> oil filter. How can that be?

ATTENTION EVERYONE:

Upon hearing this line from a service manager, you should IMMEDIATELY demand to see the oil filter. Offer to dive into the dumpster with (or without ) him/her to retrieve it. Do not accept any excuse for why the oil filter is "not available." Ask them to provide a personal written statement attesting to the "fact" that the oil filter removed from the car was the original filter. "Oh, and by the way, I'd like a personal statement from the mechanic who removed it as well. And please don't sign them yet because I'll be back in 1/2 an hour with a notary to witness the signature."

Sounds like this may be becoming another "how do you know they really changed your oil?" line. Another arrow in the quiver to shoot down the customer.

Don't buy it without proof. Don't back down. If the filter can't be produced then there is no conclusive evidence.

Period.

j

lichtenberger

The maintenance check was really a 30K check. It was done at a Toyota Dealership. We only have a print out with brief descriptions of what was done
Electrical Instr
Lamp Sys Diagnos
Door Lock System
Wheels and Tires
30000 mil speci

There was a receipt from an independent service center, specializing in Honda,Toyota & Subaru, that shows a lube, oil and filter change at 36,849. This was done by the used car dealer where we bought the van.

dtownfb

I don't understand how toyota can justify paying for your repair, just because you bought it used (trust me I am happy it was covered) and not accept an owner's request. Did you buy the car from a dealership or private party? If you bought it private party, I can't understand why they covered the repairs. BTW, i would continue to have your husband change the oil and filter but have him keep the receipts of the oil purchases and mark on the oil filter with a black marker the date he installed it.

It appears to me that the original oil filter thing could be some kind of ploy by the dealership. (I have very little faith Toyota right now) I find it hard to believe that the original filter would even last that long (rust, leaking, etc). If you change your oil and filter every 3k-5k miles, I would think any major oil filter is sufficient for the job. I can't see spending $10 on an oil filter when a $2 Fram or Purolator will do just fine. Again, this is assuming you change the filter every time you change the oil.

I have a 1996 Explorer (V8) with 123,000 miles on it (no problems with the engine except for oxygen sensor had to be replaced). And I followed the 5k miles service for this vehicle (for oil changes). Granted I did sometimes go over this limit but never more then 7k miles in between oil and filter changes. I guess my point is why would the Camry and other Toyotas require more stringent maintenance then a SUV or even more then it's main competitors, the Accord, Taurus, Altima, etc.? To me Toyota has not answered that question and it's a very important question to answer. It could open up a can of worms (or enchiladas) for Toyota but to restore and maintain consumer confidence, it has to to be answered.

dtownfb

Never mind lichtenberger. I think you answered my question in post 4919. Was the used car dealer affiliated with Toyota at all?

The 30k mile checkup did not include much. I can see why they missed this problem.

theiceman

Thanks.

I wonder if that "30000 mil speci" that the Toyota dealer did include an oil change. Probably does. A call to that dealer with a "what does your 30000 mile special include?" would answer that I suppose. Not that there's anything in it for you to find out - after all, you're covered and that's the main thing. Congrats on that BTW.

jimmuh1

Did you buy your Sienna from a Toyota dealership? If you did then they should have performed the certification inspection.

Basically, is the van a certified pre-owned vehicle?

Jamie

dtownfb

If you don't mind, could you call the dealer (the one who performed the 30k service) to see what is included in the 30k service. Their answer will answer a lot of questions I have.

If in fact they did change the oil during that service, I'm guessing that the dealership lied to you about the original oil filter still being on your Sienna. And it goes back to something might be wrong with the engine which the dealership/service manager/regional manager is trying to hide.

I'm not convinced yet that it is one single cause for the sludge problem. But I do think the modifications they did to the engines in 1997 to meet LEV has something to do with it. It's likely a combination of things that may or may not have been thoroughly thought out during the design process. Happens all the time. So many parts and computer items in cars nowadays. The true problem with the sludge is how Toyota is handling it.

bob57

Has anyone given any thought to the computer control module on the engine years involved on this post? That system controls a lot of "happenings" inside there......

johnmcdan

Our dutiful HOST writes:

> Did someone answer the new kid on the block? Is Toyota offering to
> compensate people who paid out of pocket for sludge repairs prior to
> this Help Program?

YES.

To freshen the collective memory:

We paid to have our engine replaced with a used engine and Toyota sent me a check for $3600 and change as reimbursement under the SPA program (I submitted documentation of oil changes that the dealer originally refused to even consider casting a glance at back in Q1 of 2001). Sludge @ approx. 32k miles diagnosed at the 30k service visit.

Been using Mobile 1 @ 3k intervals since.

Gonna have the "easy to get to" valve cover pulled to have a look sometime soon.

regards, j

zielinw

I cut this from then Lexus RX300 site. You may want to jump over there and read the follow-ups.

4826 of 4831 RX 300 Sludge by rmnixon Mar 27, 2002 (04:03 pm)

Town hall readers, just a word of warning about sludge. The wife had our 1999 RX 300 to the dealer today for a couple of minor things (whine in the radio and a right front side window that would not close on the "express up", while it was there I asked to have them check for sludge since we bought it used at a Toyota dealership. Well guess what, they found sludge. We had no signs of any problems such as smoking, oil consumption, or dash lights coming on. They (Lexus) are going to perform their fix under warranty. The fix seems to involve new valve covers / gaskets plus cleaning out as much of the top end as they can. They will then drop the oil pan and do the same thing from the botton end of the motor. The service manager did indicate to me that this was a mild case (a 3 on a scale of 1 -10, 10 being totally siezed). When I inquired about whether I should keep the car or not (my wife drives it with our two young children) he stated he would be able to give me a better opinion after he has the motor opened up. He was also recommending 3000 mile oil changes which as we all know is not what is in the manual. I must say Lexus has been very accomadating so far. My wife is a little upset because she really likes the car. I'll let you all know more next Wednesday after it gets cleaned up

lichtenberger

No, the used car dealer we bought it from was not affiliated with Toyota.

lichtenberger

I just called the dealership that did the 30K maintenance and YES it includes a lube, oil and filter change. I noticed the 2002's have a V6 with VVT-i. I know nothing about engines, but was told by the dealership that it has something to do with letting the engine breathe. Do you know if Toyota made this change in 2002 to get rid of this sludge problem? I'm seriously considering trading in this '98 for a 2002 to avoid further problems down the road.

zielinw

If Toyota did the 30k maintenance the oil and filter would have been changed as part of their normal servicing. At least that is what my owner's manual says (for the RX300). So, the likelihood of having the original filter just does not seem credible. Toyota needs to come up with a better excuse.

But, it is good that the SPA is in place as your car is getting fixed.

Mr_Shiftright

Any mention of this 's maintenance records/intervals/etc?

john339

The excuse used by some Toyota dealers that the vehicle still had the original oil filter is starting to wear a little thin, pardon the pun.

The following is a statement from Honda's owners manual for the 2002 Accord. I found this online at their website. This passage is in reference to maintenance being performed outside a dealership and the affect on the warranty.

"The only way your warranty may be affected is if it can be shown that misuse or improper (or lack of) maintenance caused or contributed to the malfunction."

According to Honda, the ONLY way the warranty can be denied is if THEY, Honda, can show ('PROVE') that improper maintenance was done.

The burden of 'proof' to deny a warranty claim lies with the auto manufacturer, at least in the case of Honda.

For a dealer to just say your vehicle still had the original filter, and not offer some proof (like the actual filter) just doesn't fly in my book.

This same thinking would apply to the dealer not even looking at non-dealership receipts.

I have not seen a written policy on where the burden of proof lies for Toyota, but I think the fact that at least another manufacturer maintains the burden of proof for denying warranty claims speaks volumes.

pdalpsher

I'm taking my 01 Highlander V6 in for its third oil change (1k, 4k, 6.5k) a bit early due to some traveling next month. When I called to make the appointment I spoke with the service manager (not just the writer).

He's been working with Toyotas for over 20 years and claims to have only seen the sludge on engines where folks missed a service interval. This may be a 'standard response' but that is what he said. I asked how to get an oil analysis done to have a baseline just in case something happens down the road. They send the samples out to a lab and he said he will do it for me free of charge.

Thanks bob for the posts that made me think of getting an analysis before something happens. I'll probably do one once a year unless something unusual happens like oil consumption.

I feel my dealer is sensitive to this issue and that it pays to have a relationship with them. Yes it costs me a few dollars more for an oil change and service but that is my way of protecting my investment. I'd also hope that if I do get sludge, it will be caught before it goes critical.

I have no type of relationship with Toyota other than as an owner of my second Toyota...so don't assume I have a conflict of interest.

In my state you can get replaced parts back so if I had any worries about stuff not being done or being legitimate I'd get the parts. On my Camry I know got back a distributor cap and CV boots...can't remember what else but they will do it.

lichtenberger

"He's been working with Toyotas for over 20 years and claims to have only seen the sludge on engines where folks missed a service interval." I got the same line from our service manager when we took our Sienna in.

hlron

Lichtenberger, in your post #4917 regarding the subject of possibly trading for the 2000 Sienna you stated:

"... I know she had the oil changed every 3,000 at a Toyota dealership and had all maintenance done. She was experiencing no problems but wanted a Camry instead. We were considering trading in the one we just bought for this one. I had the feeling from theposts that cars that had oil changes every 3,000 were okay, but those that changed their oil every 5,000 to 7,500 were experiencing sludge. But, now I'm reading that Toyota's oil is one of the worst out there."

I have no clue about the quality of Toyota's oil, however not all dealer's use the same brand of oil. The Toyota dealer I use for my service uses Valvoline 10W 30 SL, which they get from a local (and reputable) petroluem product wholesaler here in our area. If you like, you can certainly ask the dealer at which the 2000 Sienna was serviced about the type of oil they have and do use for service. Just a thought.

catgem

Am I the only one who noticed the name, rmnixon...remember Former President Richard Milhous Nixon? Where IS this Lexus site anyway?

john339

jimmuh1 - would you mind posting the details of your vehicle's original problem? I've read the problems you have had since the 'repair' but I don't remember ever reading the details of the original problem.

Thanks

catgem - the board that post came off of can be found by searching Edmunds for RX300. His posts indicates he bought the Lexus used and the maintenance history shows oil changes at 4-5K mile intervals, the service manager is recommending 3000 intervals. He indicates his Lexus will be repaired next Wednesday and will post his findings then. Hey, maybe he'll tape record his conversations with the service manager

zielinw

Shifty here is what rmnixon said the maintenance interval was

#4830 of 4839 by rmnixon Mar 28, 2002 (04:09 am)
They pulled off the front valve cover. We bought the car used but the history in the owners manual seems to indicate oil changes were done every 4-5K. I would think that should be an acceptable interval, however, there is still some sludge in the motor. The service manager is recommending a 3K oil change interval. I'm going to play wait and see and find out what the service manager tells me on Wednesday after they take off both valve covers and drop the oil pan. I'll keep you all posted

Catgem, I to remember RMN, also LBJ, RFK, and vaguely remember a song from Hair that had way too many three letter initials in the lyrics!!

I don' know if the link below will work, but it is at the following location -- edmunds, townhall, owners club, lexus owners club, lexus RX300 owners, lexus RX300

"Lexus RX300 - Topic consolidation" Mar 28, 2002 8:19pm

lichtenberger

Thanks for the help. I will check with that dealership.