Pontiac GTO

exzur

The manual has two more extra gears than the auto. The top(sixth) gear ratio of the manual is 0.57 vs the auto’s top(fourth) of 0.7, both trans axle ratio is 3.46. Plus the efficiency in transferring engine power to the drive wheels is much better with the manual, I think..

Where did you hear that the 05’s auto will be faster than the manual? Both trans is mated to the same engine. I think the manual is better and faster. IMO, The manual tramsmission is one of the attributes of a true sports car.

white6

Disagree. Xenons and Nav only drive price up; price has been one of the problems GTO has not been able to overcome. Xenons are semi-useful but are, in my opinion, unnecessary complexities and are VERY expensive to fix/repair. I know the Lincoln drivers are getting tired of replacing $900 "bulbs" every 30,000 miles. Nav is fine, but requires extensive dashboard changes. Adding these "options" only gives the dealers more opportunities to gouge customers. "Sure it's an option, but that's the only way we stock 'em." GTO is not about competing with Cadillac or Mercedes; it's about horsepower, torque, and reasonable price.

exzur

I agree with white6 to disagree. Unless the body shell is replaced, this GTO is a mid $20k car.

sputterguy

For what it's worth, I just paid $877 for six months for my 98 GTP, my wife's 2001 Pathfinder, and my new GTO. I don't know how much each one is individually. That price seems reasonable to me. I will be getting rid of the GTP eventually but for now I can't pass up having an extra car (and a supercharged one at that) around for less than $600 a year (the insurance). I'm insured with Allstate...

exalteddragon1

if you can get Nav and Xenon in say... a 350Z, for the same price as a GTO without these features, then why not?

And yes, these features do make dealers gouge prices, instead of offering profit eating, resale killing rebates. Why? because these features are relatively new and very cool, bottom line.

and you know what, the sales show it. Personally, i will not buy an over 30K car if it does not have these features, i don't care if it has 1000hp. It does not impress.

and as for the lincoln bulbs, thats fords fault for crappy design/supplier part. Look, I just don't understand if these features are available in a 25K nissan ALTIMA, why not a 35K Pontiac GTO?

pompilius

>>>Xenons and Nav only drive price up; price has been one of the problems GTO has not been able to overcome.<<<

Well, if GM did something about keeping the price the same AND including the NAV and HIDs... that would be something.

Currently they are losing money on rebates and slow sales AND are being badmouthed for not inlcluding these features. Instead they could be getting more people interested in the car, maybe they would lose some money initially, but it would pay off in the long run.

andy

having more standard equipment is exactly what the GTO does not need. The problem is the price for a "pontiac".

Features are not what make a car great. You can probably get a hyundai with xenons and navigation, but it sure won't stir the passion like a gto would.

jrock80

The 05 with the LS6 with an automatic will do 0-60 in 4.6 seconds and the 6-speed will do 0-60 in 4.8.

sukinsyn

>>>What do you guys think, would modern features help the GTO? New Cadillacs all have these features, i mean style and marketing helped but these features are there, its no coincidence IMHO, that without these features the new caddy's would retain the old mans car image.<<<

I am looking at the GTO, the 2005 Mustang, a Infiniti G35 Manual and an Acura TL Manual transmission...

The Acura and Infiniti come fully loaded for $33k...and you work them down from there.

Plus you get a sunroof...

I am looking at all four....my current lease is up in 60 days and I have wiggle room on which one to go with.

I test drove the GTO today...it was nice, however, spare as far as amenities.

I have to see the Mustang to make my decision. The pics look great.

Two four door *sport* sedans vs. two muscle cars...I just don't know what to do!

exzur

From MEDIA.GM.COM, &#147;&#147;The car is capable of 186 mph (300 km/h), faster than any production Corvette in history. It reaches zero to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 4.2 seconds, and in 4.1 seconds with the optional Z51 Performance Package, and covers the quarter-mile in 12.6 seconds at 114 mph (183 km/h)&#148;&#148;

The automatic is not available with the Z51 Performance Package, the above figure is for 2005 Corvette with the Tremec six speed manual, I bet.

Again, where did you get your info? Maybe the driver who tested the car, who provided your 0 to 60 numbers is not good enough to drive a manual shift.

bigdaddycoats

The 0-60 numbers were released from GM. I can not remember where, I will look for them later. They did list the auto as being .2 seconds faster than the manual.

exzur

The auto trans in the GTO has the same gear ratios, but without the performance algorithm shifting of the vette. The six speed manual in the GTO has similar gear ratios as the vette six speed with the Z51 sport package.

This 2005 Corvette 6 spd with the Z51 package has a top speed of 186 mph. It reaches 0 to 62 mph in 4.1 sec and covers the quarter mile in 12.sec. The GTO has 5 ft./lbs less torque, GTOs 5th gear ratio is 0.84 to vette&#146;s 0.71..

In view of the above, the only way, the automatic GTO can outspeed the manual counterpart, is if the driver does not know how to shift manually.

qbrozen

what about the rear differential? is that the same?

midwesttrader

Several months ago I raised the issue of rising gas prices and fuel mileage. Everyone flamed me then saying, this is a muscle car, if you have to ask the GTO is not for you.

exzur

Almost for the 6 speed. 3.42 for the vette, 3.46 for the GTO. Source is media.gm.com

sputterguy

If you absolutely need those features then you should buy the Altima. The GTO will never have those options. The GTO is about performance, not electronic gadgetry.

midwesttrader

September = 2678
YTD = 8229

A HUGE month indeed!

exzur

IMO, the purpose of the GTO is to give the consumers corvette performance without the vette price. Backseat is a bonus. If you keep adding expensive features, then it defeats the purpose
of the GTO.

What the GTO needs is a fresh body. A racy modern looking design combining the looks of the firebird and the old GTO. A body design that when you look at the car, no matter how racy or modern the styling is, you can see traces or DNA of the original GTO.

Though expensive at first. I believe GM will have good returns on the long run.

exzur

"A HUGE month indeed!"

Yeahh!!! Due to incentives.

If this scenario continues next year. I could smell the death of the GTO.

I am willing to pay no more than 25 grand for a cavalier on steroids. That is, next year If I can steal a 2005 6 speed GTO for $25,000, I'll do it.

andys120

If GM killed every model that was being subsidized by incentives they'd have nothing to sell.

ua01682

You may be right on the A4 v 6M... however regarding the 2005 GTO I asked the same question in several GTO forums... learned that the 2005 A4 GTO automatic has a "launch mode". I am not sure what that means exactly. Anyone else?

ua01682

Forgot to post earlier! Any news on incentives for October on the 2004 GTO?

bigdaddycoats

.9/1.9/2.9 or $3500 cash back.

bigdaddycoats

So, you do not like the styling but would buy one for $25k? Have you driven one yet? You must also remember that GM factors rebates into their pricing structures. They know that they are needed to move their cars. GTO will stay and be moved to the Zeta paltform in 07.

hammen2

Launch mode... my 04 A4 has this as well. Basically, when you put the car into gear, the rear suspension squats down a couple of inches... gets the adrenaline flowing :-)

hammen2

>.9/1.9/2.9 or $3500 cash back. <

If you finance at the low rates through GMAC, you also get the $3500 bonus. That's a no-brainer (assuming one qualifies)...

hammen2

>I am willing to pay no more than 25 grand for a cavalier on steroids<

If you had ever driven the car you'd know it's not even remotely close to a "Cavalier on steroids".

--Robert

exalteddragon1

While I agree with you that GTO could use a new body, I'm saying that the body we see today could sell if equipped right, and BTW, GM could add some of these features to the GTO without bumping th cost, for example, on the 500 forums, one poster figured out the difference between 500/montego (montego having xenon and LED) is actually like few hundred bucks.

And Xenons are very flashy, anyone looking at your lights will tell your driving a modern machine.

With a few hundred bucks, meybe GM could lower its incentives at least 500 bucks, be making 300 or so extra in profit and give us a better GTO.

Many of these features really are not that expensive, only the Nav really is, and that could be on the options list along with the lights. I do not think Xenons, even as options, are "Expensive" on a 35K car. And as options it means if you don't want then, you don't buy them and keep your GTO at a more reasonable price point...

bigdaddycoats

I agree that maybe the GTO is missing some options, but I believe that GM was trying to simplify the process and bring them over here without any options - just auto or manual.

The major options that do not exist are-

nenons
sunroof
nav
heated seats

That is about all I can think of. For me, I am glad it does not come with a sunroof (I do not fit in most cars with them). The rest of the options I could care less about. Heated seats would be nice since I live in Michigan but I can understand not offering them since most likely half of the buyers live in climates where they are not necessary.

From what I hear the 05 is only increasing price by very little - less than $1k.

ua01682

Pardon me bigdaddygoats... but didn't that expire 9/30? Dealer is telling me that it did... and Edmunds.com http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/RebateController?step=2&mod- - elId=100502928&setzip=77459&state=TX&tid=edmunds.n.in- - centivesindex.incentives.2.2.Pontiac* doesn't show ".9/1.9/2.9 or $3500 cash back.".