Chevrolet C6 Corvette

Mr_Shiftright

Well an automatic transmission and a sofa-like suspension with gimbled cupholders attached aren't going to save you from the ravages of pot holes. I think the Detroit News is having a hard time believing America can make a real sports car.
Or maybe they are getting old and crotchedy about shifting gears in public, I dunno.

YES, a manual transmission is a drag in heavy hot traffic, blah, blah....

starrow68

http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_news56/

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...I'd believe GM claims, but the only thing I'd question is whether 1 out of 1000 new Corvette buyers are qualified to drive 186 mph around a track (a bit different than mashing the gas in a straight line). Or maybe 1 out of 10,000 now that I think of it. Ferrari gives you a ultra high speed driving course with a pro as part of your package. Not a bad idea, don't you think? Of course, you're paying a lot more.

I used to advocate that for cars rated over 140mph drivers should be required to have a special license (like for trucks over a certain weight) but I got booed down and had rotten vegetables thrown at me so I rarely bring the subject up anymore.

starrow68

Just between us I wasn't comfortable going very fast until I'd gotten a couple classes and now I know how quick things happen at high speeds which lends itself to leaving larger margins for error. Empty roads are hard to find. As to the 186mph, I'm betting that it is only possible in a straight line, even if some race cars can do more than that on ovals the rest of the setup is not going to get there is my bet. And even my trips to Nevada have had too much traffic and that goes for the back roads as well.
   Also note that the only model that does that speed is the 6sp, Z51 coupe. Verts are over 50% of the build when they start shipping, autos are over 50% of the build and Z51 in 2003 was 11% of Coupes for a total less than 1500 cars out of 35k+ produced. BTW, Corvettes are 1/10th% of car production for NA and EU. Not many people get the opportunity to go 120-140 much less 186mph. As to qualified, I think you're still being generous at 1 out of 10k. Many that try maximum speed, whatever that might be, seem to turn it into a 'fatal' mistake.

Mr_Shiftright

I wouldn't try it. That's out of my league, even with some training that I've had. That 186 mph world is a whole other universe--an altered state if you will.

WEll, maybe on a windless smooth flat surface that's 25 miles long, yeah, you might make 186. But hit a golf ball and you're dead.

avolvofan

If I could drive at a higher speed (say, up to maybe 80 mph on the freeway) and not get ticketed, I would sign up for the special license in a heart beat. However, I still wouldn't drive 186 (or anywhere near that speed) on the street - there is too much variation on road surfaces. The most that I would push a car on the street is probably around 90 for any extended period of time. Brief sprints to 100 or 110, but no way at 120 or higher for an extended run. There is just too much that can go wrong on a road surface that is not continually prepped for speed. Maybe on the autobahn; but not in the U.S. At 120, things happen too fast to be able to react with any reliability.

Mr_Shiftright

One of the car magazines once did a survey and asked professional drivers (I mean BIG TIME drivers) a question something like this: "At what speed, on public roads, in your own high performance personal car, do you stop talking, fiddling with the radio, etc. and start to CONCENTRATE"?

Answer (averaged out) About 93 mph.

starrow68

They comment that base pricing is down but note also that it is expected that 75% of the models delivered will cost more.
http://www.nypost.com/wealth/29126.htm

starrow68

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=2&article_- id=1458

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=8423

For those like me that wait for the web.

bigmike5

Hey Graphic--Just got back from the Woodward Dream Cruise. I put about 900 miles on the 04 Vette making that trek. The Detroit on-ramps and roads generally put it to the suspension system, but the Magnetic Selective Ride [F-55]was up to the challenge and she rode pretty well in spite of the roads. Just thought you might want to hear what the gas mileage was? I averaged 30.4 miles per gallon running 65-72 highway, and that included about 100 local miles for trips and cruising Woodward on Saturday. I thought never having to be second off a light was great, but now after filling the tank and looking at the message center I have to break into a smile when I see a "Range 535 miles." Quit "stalling," [pun]dump that RX-8 and get a Vette, there are still great deals out there on the 04's and with F-55 it runs smooth. No back seat, but lots of storage space.

cvrinc

In regard to the comment on the "rocking seat" problem with the C5, what exactly is the problem and what years are effected?

Thanks.

starrow68

Not sure what years but my '02 was included, there is a 'tech service bulletin' on the problem and here is how I understand it. There is a motor that moves the seat forward/back and up/down and it has to hold it's position, it gets loose over time and starts to allow a rocking that is most noticable when accelerating or braking but not so much if you just try to do it when sitting still, also causes a skweak sound.

starrow68

http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan26e_20040826.htm

But in line with Shifty, another skip shift ding!

Then I read about pulling the kid daydreaming ad and get all the bleeding heart reports until I came across this:
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100700
When did it become too dangerous to daydream?

Ok this is worth a look too, resale value prediction:
http://www.wjactv.com/automotive/3683444/detail.html

starrow68

Los Angeles Times (subscription), CA - 15 hours ago
My wife and I saw that commercial, and we both thought it was cute. I was amazed by the protests by consumer and safety groups. For gosh sakes, lighten up! ...

   Since I don't subscribe to the LA Times I can't say what the rest of the article thought of the ad. Seems this is making the press in the UK and Ireland as well, not sure but that GM is getting more coverage out of pulling the ad than they got from the ad itself. Kids should be able to have innocent fantasies. How else did most of the these Baby Boomers end up with a Vette!

blacktalon

You can view the ad here:

http://www.vette-net.com/movies/ABoysDream-High.mov

It's definitely the best Corvette ad I've ever seen, and one of the best car ads. Those Consumers Union bozos should go back to their minivans...

bigmike5

Just got a recall notice for my 04 and a lot of other Caddy models for defective washers and nuts on the control rods. This sounds like the same problem area that DC is having with the new 300. I am not happy about a repair that might take up to 6 hrs. They should lynch the part supplier on this one.

graphicguy

I'm a fan of the Corvette. That said, I'm also a big fan of my RX8, as you know.

I think GM has done a wonderful job in the Corvette evolution.

I'm addicted to the 9K redline and the "whirl" of the rotary. I like the RX8s blend of comfort, speed, performance, handling, room and style. It's also built very well. Off the line performance is obviously much better with the 'Vette than with the RX8. The RX8 is still fast, though. In addition to that, I just read that Kelly Blue Book rated the RX8 one of the top ten of all makes and models in resale value.

That in no way takes anything away from the 'Vette. To me, it's the standard bearer in the class (vs a 911, M3, etc).

While I was mighty tempted with the deals going on for the C5, from what I'm reading, the C6 sounds like it's going to be the edition that may put me in the owner category with the upgrade in ride, styling and interior upgrades. I came close to buying the C5 when I was shopping. The RX8 was mezmerizing to me and I am very happy I bought it.

OF course, now there's talk of the RX8 coming out in '06 with a 330 HP version. I usually keep my cars to the 100K mi mark. Given the '06 'Vette will have most of the C6 teething pains taken care of (and the dealers will have had time to "get over" their new model price gouging) and the ~100HP upgrade for the RX8, I may break my own rules.

There's nothing I've seen coming down the pike from anyone else that would make me think I would look at any other cars other than the C6 or '06 RX8 that would have me look anywhere else for my next purchase.

There's nothing like being totally happy with your sports car purchase. It sounds like you like your new 'Vette as much as I like my (now, one year old) RX8. That's a good thing.

One thing's for certain, it's a great time to be a sports car afficianado, no matter which one you choose to park in your driveway.

bigmike5

Definitely a buyer's paradise for sports car afficiaonados. Now how can we get the darn SUVs and Mini-vans off the highways so we can drive these puppies the way they need to be exercised? lol

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe we can order sports cars with a snow plow option?

Have you Corvette freaks ever noticed how much a C5 is like a Porsche 928 in configuration? I wonder if C5 engineers looked at that car at some point. There aren't too many cars with front engine V8, torque tube and rear trans/diff. And let's not forget the big butt necessitated to some extent by the exhaust system and some of the suspension linking.

starrow68

Getting the rest of the Highways clear is as futile and it sounds. OTOH, taking it to the track is just what a performance car, and driver who thinks they know how to drive one, needs! Can't believe how much smoother I am in the Vette having spent the last year and a half getting instruction and practice.
   Almost had to laugh when another Corvette driver asked why he needed an instructor for his first track day. You can't believe what you don't know until you try to go fast and you don't have the basics that are required to get there, safely. One instructor noted that he doesn't teach, he just tries to break bad habits one by one so the student doesn't hurt themself or more importantly, the teacher. Not a job for everyone.

Mr_Shiftright

Watching "hotshots" at their first day of driving school is MOST amusing.

Seems that anybody can go fast in a straight line, but then.....

With these super high HP cars you really have to respect the throttle, especially exiting turns.

starrow68

I don't know the Porsche lineup but I seem to remember one book/mag article that listed the 928 and 944(?) as vehicles that were tested during the creation of the C5. Seems they tore apart a 911, don't know which model, during the C6 development. Really can't wait to try a C6 on the track and it seems the old Bragg-Smith school in NV which is now Spring Mountain Motorsports Park is going to add C6 Z51 cars to their lineup.

starrow68

From a guy that went to watch 4 events before I ever signed up for one, I agree, seeing the first timers who know it all is really scary. I've had instructors ask if they could ride with me a few times and I knew that the alternative looked a whole lot riskier, so I still didn't think I had it down yet, but it was encouraging. Not sure if my current goal of under 2.00 at Sears point in a stock engined, street tire Vette is realistic but I'm getting closer. Carrying more speed through places where I was slow before may just do the trick.
   Of course watching the SCCA qualifying on Saturday after running in an Autocross in San Francisco, I timed an open wheel car during warmups at 1.35.x for three laps in a row with lots of traffic. Now that was amazing.

bigmike5

Starrow68-- Did you get a recall notice on the control rod washers and nuts for your new ride? I got one Saturday--made out of the "wrong kind of steel"...???--anyway, she goes in tomorrow to see the dealer and get it done. Only had the car since 1 July and would have thought they would have done it already before the sale, but then again I don't know when the build date was, so it could have been on the lot for a while. Anyway, I will try to test drive a CTS-V while I'm waiting for the fix on the Vette.

starrow68

Going to have to check, I think I got the steering column lock recall on the '02 and I read about the '04's getting recalled on a part but don't think we got that one. The wife's got built in early June almost at the end of production so don't know if it has the fix.
Randy

Mr_Shiftright

The 944 is a fabulous handling car. Much under-rated, but one of equal power to a 911 would dust it on a track I think. It's one of the best handling street cars I ever drove. So if Chevy looked at it, good for them. I couldn't think of a better choice for study in building a gentleman's express.

Sears Point is a very technical track. It's a good place to learn but there aren't many "breathers" out there. You are concentrating all the time (or you'd better be, I mean). At Laguna you can rest a little more.

bigmike5

Just back at work from having the control rod nuts replaced. Took 4 hours to do the repair and re-check the alignment. I was the first Vette they had, and the first one in the door at 0-dark 30 this a.m. They thought it would be 1.5-2.0 hours to do the work, but no such luck. While I was there a 2nd Vette and an XLR rolled in for the same recall. Got to see a new STS while I was there and it was parked next to a CTS and the fronts were almost identical except for a clear fog light area on the STS instead of yellow, and some mesh along the bottom of the STS grill. Even about the same size. Someone already bought it and picked it up while I was there.

starrow68

Interesting that Sears Point is recognized as the more technical track while Laguna is more well know by the public. The close walls at 1, 2, 3a, 6, 7, 8(ask Dale Jr.), 10(ask the 3 cars I've seen into the wall there in about 15 visits) and 11 keep you very focused. Turn 11 is interesting twice, will the brakes work since I've gotten it over 100mph, and then how far can I push the throttle as you unwind up against the wall of pit row. Turn 3 is more fun all the time at a faster pace once you figure out how to exit 3a blind and get the right line. Turn 4 I still don't get and it ought to be an easy one, while 5 isn't really a turn at least in the Vette, WOT from the exit of 4, almost. Turn 9 is WOT as well, fun place to pass when they open it up, but getting lined up for 10 with brief brake to set up so you don't early apex is taking lots of practice to do it at real speed, over 80mph in the Vette.
   I have taken a breather a few times and lived to regret it in all cases, last few visits I've learned to pull off if I even have a hint that the focus is starting to waver.
   Next month to Buttonwillow and then to Thunderhill a few weeks after that, Sears really does stay busy all year round. Love that track!

starrow68

http://www.sfexaminer.com/article/index.cfm/i/083104c_scoop

See item under Car Wars

Then there is this little item about leasing:
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2004/Aug/1069263.htm

Mr_Shiftright

My best turn at Laguna was always the corkscrew. I respected it but never feared it. I knew I was getting good in that turn because I was getting light headed going through it.

Only drove Sears on demo runs, etc. I would need a lot of practice there!

starrow68

Have to admit, turn 6 carousel is the most fun on that track, followed by the 1, 2, 3 sequence. When you compare those to the lefts and rights with one blind drop over at Laguna the gap in fun is rather large. My current problem with turn 6 is that with stock seats and belt I think the car can go faster than I can hold on, do I see a harness bar in the near future?
   Also, have you ever been to Spring Mountain? Turn 6 carousel at Sears is just over 180 degrees, I think. Admittedly, down hill and a little bank on entry. At Spring Mtn. they have flat sweepers but back to back with the second being maybe 200+ degrees and you come out about 85 mph at the apex to WOT. It is another E ticket I recommend. They also are expanding from all Z06's to C6 Z51 coupe's and they are going to have Radical classes as well. A future idea for Job Well Done!

carguy04

Does anyone know what the official introductory date will be for the 2005 Vette? Or will dealers start displaying them whenever they get one in stock? Thanks.

starrow68

The official intro date was back in Jan. at the Detroit auto show, the production started in late July and they announced shipments to dealers about two weeks ago. Those would most likely be early ordered vehicles but some dealers that want more than MSRP will start getting units for the show room in the next few weeks I expect. I saw one demo unit in San Jose a couple weeks ago. Look on the web and you can already find some dealers who will take discounts or at least MSRP with no markups. Local dealers have been noted asking up to $10k over and I expect some will get it from those with more money than shopping ability.

dabush2

I stopped at the Chevrolet dealer in Schaumburg, IL (suburb of Chicago) yesterday while driving my '98 C5 coupe, and they have a red on black C6 sitting on the showroom floor. The perimeter of the car is "secured" with a velvet rope, although I was able to sit inside it. The sales-weasel informed me that it's normally locked and that I shouldn't be sitting in it...

The car had navigation, polished wheels, and the 1SB package, so it stickered around $53K. The sales-weasel was kind enough to inform me that the car was selling for no less than "$5K over sticker," too.

In doing vehicle search of other larger dealers in the suburban Chicago and Milwaukee areas, it appears that there are more out there.

The car looked great and I can't wait to see more of them on the road.

carguy04

Hi Everyone. I am new to this board, and wanted to share that I spotted my first C6 on the road here this evening in Colorado Springs. It was Magnetic Red with the chrome polished wheels. I didn't get close enough to see the interior color, as it was a couple of lanes over from me. But wow... what a thrill to see this car in person for the first time. It is gorgeous. Does anyone know if the rear taillamps are LEDs?

bigmike5

Saw hundreds of C-6's yesterday and today. Course I toured the plant in Bowling Green yesterday and have been helping with the parking for the Labor Day Museum 10-year anniversary celebration yesterday and today. Seen lots of C-6's around that place, and saw a truck load of them on I-65 heading north on the way down there this a.m. The production line is much more casual than the DC line that made the 300M's at Brampton, Ontario. They really go slow comparatively, and the plant is whisper quiet by comparison--no earplugs neeeded. I only had a couple of comments on the C6. The Daytona Sunrise orange [?] did not look as bad as I thought it would. Not sure if it is a color you love for 2 weeks and then say: Why did I do it? Anyway it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and the new red color wasn't bad either, but I'm not heavy into red-except I liked the Guard's red alot--so red is red with me. Some others in my tour group weren't as enamored with the change. The other comment was: Who didn't put a front plate opening/bracket into the planning? They told me that issue was still being worked. But cars are already going out on trucks!!! Anyway nice one hour tour. Now if I can just win the drawing for the last C-5 coupe on Sunday, or the C-6 they are also raffling, it will be a good weekend.

graphicguy

Since I live in Cincinnati, I've often thought of driving down to Bowling Green for that tour. It's only a 3 hour drive for me. How did you book it?

bigmike5

The Museum had a bunch of slots for the anniversary weekend attendees, but if you go to the Corvette Museum website they have subject of "assembly plant tours." They are open to the public, and it is no big deal. Just remember that they are on central time in Bowling Green so they are one hour behind Cincinnati. Wish I could have got my Vette via the Museum Pick-up program--option R8C I think it is. That would have really been a nice deal, but mine was already on the dealer's lot.

starrow68

From another forum:

"Its a Precision Red with all the options marked up an extra $30,000."

   That post was followed by another with a $20k markup and even the GM build it program seems set up to indicate over MSRP according to some. Really insane that people will negotiate that down to maybe $5k or $something less than $10k over MSRP and spend a lot of time thinking they got a great deal. You can order a coupe tonight through the web based dealers and get MSRP without asking and from some get $500 or even $1000 off MSRP on a made to order unit, not what the dealer has on the floor. The market is amazing, truly!

bigmike5

Saw three more truckloads of C-6 leaving the Bowling Green plant onto I-65 this past weekend. Two were headed south and one headed north. Also saw several with regular state registration plates on them at the Museum, so somebody is getting the new ones now.

ndmike88

The tours at free. They start at 10:00(?) and again at 1:00. Limited to the first 60-70 people who show up. Check out the NCM web site for more info.

starrow68

http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/stories/public/200409/05/0e77- _news.html

Just FYI

bigmike5

Met some great folks from the local Bowling Green Corvette Club this past weekend as they do a lot of volunteer support for events held there. They have a lot of Club events and outings too, so I expect that I will probably join that club as soon as I clear it with the wife. Corvettes Limited of Bowling Green is their club name.

starrow68

"Ad watcher and Euro RSCG chief strategist Marian Salzman questions GM's quick decision to acquiesce. "How does General Motors have the time to steward a multinational company and listen to every lunatic fringe group that has a complaint?" "

    Ah, this is from a USAToday article discussing the decision to pull the ad. Then there was this which I think summed up the thoughts of many owners:

"A Corvette owner disagrees, saying the ad accurately reflects kids' sports car fantasies. "I didn't give it much thought that a kid was driving because I dreamed about having one since I was a kid." says Anthony Cruz, president of Bay Area Corvettes in California and owner of a classic 1964 Stingray."

jae5

Have actually seen a C6 up close. A place in my neck of the woods that's a hi-perf dealer has a red one park out front. This dealer mostly deals with corvettes of all years but also has hi-perf vehicles from the '50s on up. Recently has had a Maserati coupe (nice), Cobra replica, Chevy II Nova SS, Tri-five Chevy, a couple SSR.

Anyway, it lokked pretty decent; looks better than the pics in magazines. Still not crazy about the front headlights (too 360 Modena, Mistubishi 3000, kit-car-ish) and the rear is a little too wide for me, but not as wide as I had thought. Still, very nice piece.

bigmike5

Never saw the offending commercial, but at the big Museum event this past weekend we had about 100 varied Vettes all nicely parked and perfectly spaced on the grassy area near the museum, and as I watched a lot of people taking pictures of the assemblage, it crossed my mind that the appropriate caption for a picture would be "Field of Dreams." It really was.

rkelon

I would appreciate information about the sites where I can order a 05 Corvette and get a discount off of MSRP.

thanks

robert

starrow68

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/editorial/963879- 0.htm

Personally that summed it up for me.

Mr_Shiftright

I think this flap is tied indirectly to the recent storm of criticism over violent video games showing car-jacking and/or car theft (one was called "Grand Auto" wasn't it?). Also, the number of teenage deaths from car wrecks is gruesomely significant. It wasn't the best timing for GM.

IF they had the kid on the track with a helmet on, that would have flown WAY better and still made the point (I didn't see the video but I assume he was street-driving). And linking skate-board driving to car driving wasn't all that smart either.

Maybe if they hadn't pulled it, other advertisers would have done worse?

But I hardly think any young kid needs a TV commercial to stimulate his fantasies about a new Corvette! Besides, don't all kids nowadays get new Corvettes for improving their grades

avolvofan

It must be a generation gap kind of thing (kids getting new Corvettes for improving their grades). I sure wish that I had gotten a new Corvette for improving my grades - for me, it was a matter of getting the grades to be able to get into the college that I wanted to go to.

Like I said, it must be a generation gap kind of thing.