Subaru Crew: Official SOA Presence (aka Patti)

subaru_team

do with Market Devel., but I can put them in touch with the folks that do - --you can have them give me a call? FWIW - we have a lot of dealers that are "dualed" or carry more than one franchise, so that shouldn't be a roadblock. I wonder why he wasn't taken up on his offer? Please feel free to ask him to call me and we'll see what we find!

Thanks!

Patti

lark6

...but I wish there were more stand-alone Subaru dealerships in this country. I've had my car serviced at three different dealers; the sales and service staff at two of the three (VW/Subaru, Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep/Suzuki/Subaru) don't seem to make as much of an effort to understand the idiosyncracies (sp?) of the cars as they do at the third (Subaru only).

BTW a Krispy Kreme franchise (the first in PA IIRC) opened up about 4 miles from my house two weeks ago. KKs are my weakness; I lived for them when I was in grad school in Atlanta but they can only be a rare treat for me now. :-(

Ed

damish003

Ed,

Sorry to tell you that yours isn't the first in PA. We've had one in Erie now for about a year now. You would have sworn the Beatles had gotten together and come to town from the local reaction, it was NUTS! They are nice, though, aren't they?

-Dan-

rsholland

... we have a lot of birds dying up here....they have a canarial disease called chirpies and they can't tweet it....

My mother, aunts and uncle grew up in Ironwood MI. My great grandfather worked there in the iron-ore mines in the late 19th century, and my grandfather was a safety inspector in the mines in the early 20th century. They were somewhat like pioneers back then, and there's even a street name after them in Ironwood, Stevens St. At family get togethers, the meal of choice are pasties.

When my mother was growing up, Ironwood was prosperous. Not sure what it's like now.

Bob

lark6

hondafriek

On knock sensor, the advisor called the morning and after speaking with the manager and SOC as a goodwill gesture they would supply the sensor and I pay labour.

I am not happy, for one, the reason given is because I do my own servicing they would not cover labour.

The amount of labour is one hour and by itself is not a big deal it is the principle, the car is low milage and one week out of warranty.
The big thing though Is the implication you do your own servicing so when the time comes don't look for any favours.

 I know a lot of the crew do their own servicing and I would hope that this is not Subaru thinking, this is the second tacit warning I have had about doing my own servicing, I have owned both Honda and Toyota and needed warranty work the fact did my own servicing was never an issue.

  This has left such a bad feeling that I would seriously consider another make when the time comes. I do my own servicing for 3 reasons. (1) I get a lot of satisfaction in being still able to do it in spite of physical challenges.(2) I know it's done right, and (3)finance, my income is a reduced disability pension so if I can save by doing my own servicing why not.

  In conclusion this car is actually over serviced the oil and filter are changed every 3000 miles and thats using synthetic, if it was serviced by the book it would be serviced half as often, plus I buy all my parts at the dealers so he is making money off of me there.

  Cheers Pat.

ozman62

Is this a package deal? They'll give you the sensor if they can install it? That's pretty weak. Why don't you accept the part, and then install it yourself. I'm sure it's within your abilities. I too would be tempted to tell them to go pound salt...
Owen

locke2c

I would really try to find another dealer, Pat, if there is another within anything close to a reasonable drive.

sometimes relationships with dealers just can't be helped. this is actually the one fear I have in buying a new Legacy-- I hate my local dealer and there isn't another for 90 miles.

~c

joybell

That's not the point. For a car a week out of warranty with such low mileage I too would expect parts and labour to be covered.

ateixeira

We need a canadian Patti.

Dealers often lose money on new car sales and recover it on service. I can see them going the extra mile for a customer that brings them a lot of service business (i.e. profits).

That's probably their rationale. But it doesn't mean they should alienate buyers this close to being under warranty.

-juice

ozman62

I understand the point. The dealer is being a little difficult. Maybe the question is whether the knock sensor is actually covered under the 5/ 100 powertrain warranty. Sometimes banging your head against a really big wall isn't worth it, there might be an easier way around it. It seems like Pat's dealer has already alienated him, he could get what he can from them, and say goodbye. Not trying to start an argument here, though, just my opinion.
O

bluesubie

Maybe the question is whether the knock sensor is actually covered under the 5/ 100 powertrain warranty.

According to SoA, it's not. I tried getting the knock sensor replaced on my 97 OBS that was out of the 3/36. I was in the middle of a clutch/dealer fiasco and SoA told me that the sensor wasn't part of the powertrain warranty.

-Dennis

volkov

I've always wondered in these situations how much relates to the dealer versus the company. SOC may well give leeway to the dealer, but I know in other businesses, that the regional/national reps take a firm position which can be changed by a dealer who goes to bat for you, and very rarely by a customer who won't accept what he's offered. The average service manager will spend more of his time trying to get you covered if you are a good customer. A good customer to him is someone who gives him business. If you do your own service, what does he stand to gain by fostering your loyalty? If you are lucky you get someone who will do everything for anyone who walks into their shop, but those people are rare indeed. It's an unfortunate reality in most customer service today.
I can really sympathise, and can go you one better (or worse) with our Nissan Pathfinder in the mid 90's. The heater selector broke one month before warranty expired. It was stuck on def/heat or windshield/feet, (you get the idea) which was where it stayed most of the time anyway, so I didn't bother rushing it in. Went away on vacation and when I returned, called to book an appointment with 6 days left on the warranty. Earliest appointment was 2 days after my purchases date. No problem says the person on the phone, 2 days doesn't matter. I wasn't too worried since 2 years earlier, Honda had covered a problem under warranty a month after expiry without me even asking.
So guess what happens. The @#%@#%$'s won't cover it. Say it required an entire unit at cost of $250 + 2 hrs labour. I was still training at that time (my wife was working) and that was real $$ to us. I raised Hell, but all I got from the service manager was "What was the name of the person you spoke to who said it was okay to come late?" and "Claim it was broken for a month, why didn't you bring it in immediatley?" Complained to the regional rep, and even to national customer service, where the person on the phone actually said, "I'm afraid sir that a warranty is like a light switch, once it's past its turned off." "So is customer loyalty" was my reply. Swore that Nissan Canada would never see a dime of my money ever again.
 
The story actually gets better. 2 years later (had all my service done independantly for that time) we moved, and there was a service centre for Nissan in my new town run by the chief wrench from the dealership which went out of business. Asked about the heater unit which I hadn't touched for all that time and they said it was a common problem, usually meant that the spring had fallen off the arm. One of their guys had a knack for fishing it back on, and $15 later my heater selector worked again!!

ateixeira

My Escort had some weather stripping falling off, this just a year after I bought it, and just over 12k miles. The warranty back then was 12/12 so I was outta luck.

At least the warranties are a little longer now. Plus Subaru is rumored to make it longer still for 2005.

-juice

rangerron7

Hi Patti,
I spent the morning at Bredemann Subaru in Park Ridge, IL where they attempted to fix my chronic problem with:

Pinging under acceleration
Rotten egg exhaust smell
Poor gas mileage

This is on our 2002 Forester with 19,445 miles. They replaced the front oxygen sensor to no avail. The tech said that he drove it after replacing the oxygen sensor and realizes that it still pings and still has bad smelling exhaust. The service writer asked if I could leave it since there were other things that they wanted to test out and also consult with SOA. Unfortunately, I had no means for alternate transportation. I have scheduled another appointment for Monday morning to leave it all day.
I just spoke to Petra and updated her on the latest developments and asked her if she would show my case file to you. I would greatly appreciate it if you or someone at headquarters could work with the dealer tech to attempt to diagnose the problem.
On another note, please pass along my appreciation to Samir. He has been very responsive throughout all of this.
Thank You,
Ron
Case# 544173

hondafriek

Yes the deal was they install it or I am out of luck.
 Colin we have one other dealer in the area who is worse.

 Volkov, as regards loyalty I buy all my parts and accessories from this dealer, I have sent two buyers of 03 Foresters his way in the last year and was about to steer my neice there, they had every incentive to go the extra yard in this case.

 Cheers Pat.

p0926

I buy all my parts and accessories from this dealer, I have sent two buyers of 03 Foresters his way in the last year and was about to steer my niece there, they had every incentive to go the extra yard in this case.

This might be a stupid question but was/is the service manager aware of that? But honestly it might not make much difference since sales, parts and service are separate depts that all have to make money on their own. However you could try the GM/owner who should be a little more understanding. I'm also surprised that SOC isn't helping out (you really do need you own Patti). Of course there's the very valid points that Volkov made regarding the current state of customer service. In any case, this is largely a dealer issue, which you can just as easily run into with another brand so I hardly see why it should sour you on Subarus in general. Finally, I guess the Crew let you down, we should have insisted that you take it in immediately and get the problem documented while you were still under warranty. In our defense, more often than not it's you that is offering the sage advice so we're unaccustomed to having to return the favor :-)

-Frank P.

hondafriek

Frank in this instance I was naive for sure. One thing you can be sure of it will never happen again.To answer your question yes they were aware.

Actually its a number of things that have annoyed me Frank. I have owned Hondas and Toyotas in the past and have always done my own servicing and it was never a problem even when I required warranty work.

One of the reasons given here for denying labour coverage was supposed to have been directed from SOC, and the reason given was that I do my own servicing.

 The reality is that from what I can see SOA seems willing to go the distance in many instances to keep an owner happy, from what I am hearing and based on my own experience SOC does not seem to get it.
I know in most instances you could run into problems with most makes in this instance as far as I am concerned it was just plain cheap.

 The service department was made aware of it and steered me wrong, and either the dealer or SOC should have stepped up to the plate end of story.I still think that with a car one week out warranty and only having 18K we should'nt even need this conversation. Subaru should have said fix it and thats the real reason I have soured at the minute.

 Cheers Pat.

w8ifi

Patti and Holland:
I talked to the dealer today about the franchise and gave him your 800 number and showed him your column here. I think he'll be contacting you. It's out of my hands now. Hope it works out well for both of you. I really thank you for your guiding me on this.
Bob, I was born and raised in Ironwood and lived there almost 35 years. I probably went to school with your mother. It seems all I did there was shovel snow. Now that all the mines have closed the town is getting kind of decrepit. Sad. Money magazine had an article on Joe's pasty shop two years ago. Best Pastys in the world. I live 100 miles east of there and we get 1/3 rd the snow, still too much. See you on the "Cafe" site or somewhere. I enjoy all the posts.
Take care....Jim

volkov

I hope you didn't misunderstand what I said to mean that you don't deserve to be treated properly. This kind of thing really bugs me. I can tell you that I am a partner in a business, and poor customer service on the part of my employees drives me to distraction.
You deserve better treatment than this, regardless of the business you've brought them. The fact that you have been a loyal customer simply makes it worse. The value of your future business far outweighs the small cost of covering the whole claim. That just underscores that the people making the decisions are morons with no business insight. Bigger question is whether the morons making the decisions are at your local dealer or Subaru Canada.

joybell

I am wondering if anyone has had that "coolant conditioner" added to their 2003 or 2004 Subaru and automatically got the warranty extension to 8 years or 100K as have the owners of 99-02 2.5L engines. I don't want my dealer to add it "on the sly" and not give me the same warranty.

hondafriek

No, I understood what you were saying, and yes I did wonder did Subaru actually have any input or was It a dealer decision.

 Hopefully we will get an answer to this as I sent a letter to the service manager expressing my disgust and CCd it to Subaru Canada.

  Cheers Pat.

hondafriek

The Canadian programme for the coolant conditioner has still to be initiated, no owners have been contacted yet to have it done, but it is in the works.

The campaign only applies to the model years 99 to 02. So you do not qualify in any case.

  Cheers Pat.

joybell

Then I can refuse to have them put it in my 2003 Forester. I just found out that the "extended warranty" is only "if it leaks again" and nothing else. Correct me if I have the wrong info. I would rather have them fix/replace/repair the gaskets in the first place if they are faulty. That's what a warranty is for after all.

rsholland

Bob, I was born and raised in Ironwood and lived there almost 35 years. I probably went to school with your mother.

Unlikely, as she was born in 1905, which would make her 99 if she were still alive. I think the last time I was in Ironwood was perhaps 50 years ago.

Bob

joybell

I should post this on the Canadian board but since you are here.........call SOC and ask to speak to Ray Thornburn. He is the PR person there and I've talked to him a couple of times. I found him reasonable and informative.

hondafriek

I have written to SOC so we will see from there. As for the conditioner I would add it it cannot do any harm.As to the head gaskets I think they were improved after the 02 model year so should not have the leaking problem in the first place.

  Cheers Pat.

subearu

I sent you a package back in mid-February or so, have you received it yet? I haven't heard anything regarding it. I can try emailing you as well (no attachments).

-Brian

subaru_team

Thanks!!

Patti

jcabin

I posted this problem on another Subaru board here, but I thought I would post a condensed version here.

2000 Outback, 51K miles. Piston slap (car sounds like a noisy sewing machine until warm.) In winter, this can be 15 minutes and 6 or so miles. I have taken it in to my dealer and have been told that this is normal and "not to worry no damage will be caused". okay. The dealer first said my oil wasn't changed frequently enough. Every 3-5K miles isn't frequently enough? This is a leased vehicle that Iw ould like to buy when the lease is up, but would you buy a car that sounds like this? I bet not. If you have an email address or a way to contact you outside of the public board, I would be glad to give you more info.

I did call 1-800-Subaru3 and got the same, "don't worry about it" message. I am sorry, but I just don't buy that statement without legitimate proof.

I will take the car back to the dealer another time. I am not optimistic.

subearu

thanks Patti, message received!

jcabin: does the noise go away after the vehicle warms? it's nothing to worry about. if it's present ALL the time, then it's something to worry about.

-Brian

kens

Can you actually hear the slap (a definite knocking noise) or is the engine just noisy?

Ken

volkov

"car sounds like a noisy sewing machine"

Something you must do to check this out is to use a flat blade scredriver and pry up the Subaru emblem on your hood. If you find a circle surrounding a V sitting on top of a W, that's the reason for your problem.

Okay, it's lame but you gotta give some latitude on April 1st.

paisan

Well I'm gonna have to go out on a limb here and stand by the company on this...

1) It is out of warranty. There are limits on the time and milage totally upfront in your contract given at time of sale, etc. Where do you draw the line? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? 1 Decade?

2) Servicing your own vehicle is less expensive for you and the dealer makes less money, do you expect them to bend over backward when it comes time that you need them? I dunno, maybe it's just my NY attitude, but from where I'm from you take care of me and I take care of you... Along the same lines what's everyone's ideas on tips and tipping your mechanics/service writers? I always tip my mechanics and service writers cause it helps them to be on your side when it can go either way.

Sorry about going against the rest of the group on this but you know me...

-mike

paisan

If you can get them to warranty it, then great for you. I'm all for them helping people out, but in no way would I expect anything beyond the day and milege of my warranty.

-mike

jay_24

if yours sounds like a sewing machine thats not too bad. Like Brian said if the noise goes away don't worry. My 2001 sounded like a diesel for about 20 minutes (10 miles), after two pistons were replaced it sounds like a well lubed sewing machine.

Actually it wasn't quite as loud as a diesel. The day before I took mine in to get it fixed a VW Jetta pulled up behind me and I no longer could here the subie slap.... just diesel noise fromthe VW. Note however it was about -20F.

I asked to see the pistons, but they had allread sent them to SOA. The service manager mention there was slight wear on the piston skirts, but no wear (visible or measurable) on the cylinder walls.
So is piston slap really a problem or just noise? I don't know, but I'm guessing just a noise.

--jay

bluesubie

This is a leased vehicle that I would like to buy when the lease is up, but would you buy a car that sounds like this? I bet not.

I can answer that with an emphatic yes!
Like the others said if it goes away when the engine is warm, it is probably fine. Patti posted details a short time ago but I'm not sure where it is. My wife purchased her 99 OB at the end of the lease, even though the engine sounds like a diesel until warm.

-Dennis

joybell

I don't agree. The policy should be the same across the board for everyone. While I was sitting in the waiting room at my dealer's I heard the service manager on the phone get authorization to repair a heater for a lady whose Forester was out of warranty. She was so pleased! So now I would expect the same if it happened to me. We are SUBARU customers who can go to any dealer of our choosing. The decision to authorize work out of warranty should rest with Subaru head office and not individual dealers.

lfdal

If you want a definitive answer on whether or not the engine is wearing due to the piston slap, shell out some money for a lab to do an oil analysis. I've just done the one on my XT and last month did one on the wife's OBW. Very informative and doesn't cost much.

If the numbers are good, no worries. If the numbers are bad, your case should be well on its way to being made, I would think.

My 0.02

Larry

lfdal

A general comment, made here a number of times is that every time someone out of warranty gets something fixed for free, those of us who have shelled out the bucks for Subaru extended warranties wonder why we bothered.

Granted a week and low mileage is not like a year and 15k over.

But to Mike's point - where do you draw the line?

Larry

bluesubie

Larry,
Good point about oil analysis. Peace of mind for only $20. This is from the comments section of the analysis on the diesel sounding OB:

"Dennis: Everything looks very good in the initial sample from this engine. All wear read well below average, which is a good indication of normal wearing parts and careful operation. Insolubules (oil oxidation due to heat, use and blowby) were low at 0.4%, showing good oil filtration. No fuel dilution or anti-freeze was found. Silicon was not excessive at 11 ppm, so we think your air filtration is still getting the job done. At 70,848 total miles, this engine appears to be doing well."

ateixeira

Should you buy it at the end of the lease? I'm an enthusiast and feel that you should not buy a car that you do not love, so I'll be in the minority here and say no.

Go test drive one of the new turbos and you'll fall in love. The turbocharger actually smoothes out the exhaust note so they're even quieter.

Drive one of those, and buy it if you fall in love.

The H6 engine is also ultra-quiet, probably the smoothest Subie engine.

-juice

paisan

Do you tip for better service at a resturant or anywhere else? I always do, and it generally pays off. During the 48hrs of Tri-state subie drive, we had a rather large party for dinner @ Dave and Busters a resturant in philly one year and to get 25 people seated in a reasonable time frame I tipped the hostest $40, amazingly the 2hr wait became 10 minutes...

-mike

ateixeira

So *that's* why it takes me 2:20...

-juice

stever

That sounds more like a bribe than a reward for good service. But I give away donuts and candy bars at the ski hill and sometimes get shunted ahead in the lift line, free or discounted base waxing and rentals and I scored a free day pass for my sister. I'm way ahead.

My dealer hides his techs behind the no visitors sign in the shop - I haven't found an indy mechanic yet, but how do you br.. er, tip the dealer techs?

Steve, Host

p0926

Not to keep nagging you but some of us have to make vacation plans and June is only two months away...

-Frank P.

p0926

joybell

Tipping like that is Bribery, Bribery leads to Corruption, Corruption leads to Dictatorship.....

bigelm

People treat you good, you treat them good. And they remember you next time... no bribery! Just respect and appreciation. Money talks...... (you know the rest).

I remember when Paisan helped me towing my RS. Treated him good and he took advantage of it... "Paisan, you hungry?" :-D

ateixeira

It's important to have a good relationship with your dealer. I accomplish that by sending them references and spending time there, chatting once in a while.

I guess there are many ways to accomplish the same thing, but I've never tipped a mechanic.

-juice