Subaru Crew: Official SOA Presence (aka Patti)

jfl

Check out this site.

www.epicurious.com/g_gourmet/g06_feature/james_beard/dough.html

Very interesting & educational read.

Jim

volkov

jcabin

In answer to the question, is it a knocking sound or just a tapping sound? Starts as a heavy knock and then sounds like a sewing machine until warm with a tap, tap tapping that increases with speed.

What oil analysis lab has been used successfully?

rsholland

Those who partake in this practice do it at the expense of others. It's a selfish act, and just because others do it doesn't make it right.

Bob

subarusaleshou

but no different than the person who drives the same route every day and knows they need in the far lane but rather than get in the lane and take their place they pass by 50-60 cars and force their way in. It's still someone who thinks they are better than others and deserve a special place and in truth are less than others who are polite and take their turn.

locke2c

jcabin, are you certain that noise isn't coming from the front of the engine? listen around the timing cover area, to the driver's side and down from the alternator.

~c

subearu

could be timing belt tensioner. You're a pro at installing those, right?

-Brian

subearu

did you get my email Friday?

-Brian

locke2c

done it a few times, Brian.

~colin

kens

I know we're getting OT here, but tipping and bribery is a long stretch of gray. I don't think there is any clear right or wrong.

For example, in some countries and cultures, it's considered normal and acceptable practice. The bribing of a foreign public official has been and continues to be a tax-deductible expense in many countries:
http://www.mac.doc.gov/tcc/anti_b/oecd2001/html/ch04.html

And what about expedite/priority fees? Very little differentiates them from a tip/bribe other than the fact that the fee is advertised up front.

While bribery is frowned upon in the US, it's ironic that the US culture is what drove tipping into the mainstream. Apparently, the word "tip" is an acronym for "To Insure Promptitude". Strange, isn't it?

Right or wrong, the one thing that a person should keep in mind is setting a precedent. Once you offer a sum of money to insure a level of service, you've pretty much tied yourself into having to pay that amount. Imagine how poor the service could become if you didn't tip the next time.

Ken

mrk610

If your car sounds like a sewing machine, you probable don't have piston slap . The slap noise is a distinct metallic knocking sound .
I use www.blackstonelabs.com

Mike k

paisan

I tip the service writer since they essentially are the ones who decide "hmm this is a close, call do we cover this under warranty off the bat, or do we get SOA involved or outright decline it" So by tipping the service writer, it's a good way to insure that when warranty time comes about, the grey areas will fall in your favor. Same as when you tip at a resturant, etc. etc.

Heck I just had Faulken Azenis mounted and balanced for the Legacy @ Costco. Bill was $43, I tossed the guys in the back doing the work $10 on it, why? Well cause they did em quickly, balanced them properly, and torqued my lug nuts to a T. I a perfect world, no tipping would be necessary, but since we don't live in a perfect world...sometimes it's easier to tip than not to...

-mike

snowbelter

I don't tip people for doing their job properly. Thats why they are being paid. We trip waitstaff because they are paid minimally by their employer with the expectation that a component of their salary comes from a happy customer. I often tip the person who rotates my tires when its being done for "free" as I sense that person isn't being fully compensated for taking care of me. I have no problem with providing a gift of money at the holiday season for a service writer or tech who has gone out of their way for you over the course of the year. I'd like to think that even in NYC service work can get done without the expectation of a gratuity. And paisan, don't ever let me find out that you've moved up ahead of me of a restaurant waiting list by greasing someone's palm.

paisan

Quite entertaining. I guess it's just me, I like to tip just about everyone if they do an outstanding job, or if I expect to come back to the same place to get service done again. For me my time is worth more than the few $ that I'll drop on tipping someone. As for jumping ahead of you in line.... Capitalism at it's best just like expedited service from shipping companies!

-mike

rsholland

As for jumping ahead of you in line.... Capitalism at it's best

Sometimes your statements are so off the wall, I don't even know where to begin.

Bob

kullenberg

My wife tips with chocolate (she makes the the best truffles in Christendom). It seems to work.

rsholland

I don't think anyone object to tipping. Greasing the palms of waiters, etc.—at the expense of others—now that's a different story...

Bob

paisan

It's as simple as a resturant does is not required to give out tables in order of arrivals, are they? So by paying a little for expedited service, you are seated first I'm sure if you out-bid me on it, you'll be seated first.

-mike

c_hunter

I always tip 20% at a restaurant if the service is good. We tipped our movers $20 each because they did a great job and I felt like we got the best end of the deal. In other situations, I write a letter or give a verbal "tip" to management if one of their workers did good work or something impressive. For instance, the guys who installed my gutters (for $450 no less) did such a good and fast job that I called the company and gave them a big thank-you. Their boss seemed surprised and grateful at the same time. In the long run, feedback like that goes further than $10.

I think tips and kudos are appropriate if it makes you feel better. If you're expecting future dividends, that's another story!

Craig

hondafriek

I am a little confused here, you wrote.
 
(I tip the service writer since they essentially are the ones who decide "hmm this is a close, call do we cover this under warranty off the bat, or do we get SOA involved or outright decline it" So by tipping the service writer, it's a good way to insure that when warranty time comes about, the grey areas will fall in your favor. Same as when you tip at a resturant, etc. etc)

Now this is an oxy moron If ever I read one, on the one hand you maintain the warranty should expire on the day it runs out. Then this is a later post were you advocate bribing the service writer just in case of grey areas.

You can't have it both ways Mike so which is it?

This is the post in question

(Well I'm gonna have to go out on a limb here and stand by the company on this...

1) It is out of warranty. There are limits on the time and milage totally upfront in your contract given at time of sale, etc. Where do you draw the line? 1 week? 1 month? 1 year? 1 Decade?

2) Servicing your own vehicle is less expensive for you and the dealer makes less money, do you expect them to bend over backward when it comes time that you need them? I dunno, maybe it's just my NY attitude, but from where I'm from you take care of me and I take care of you... Along the same lines what's everyone's ideas on tips and tipping your mechanics/service writers? I always tip my mechanics and service writers cause it helps them to be on your side when it can go either way)

  Cheers Pat.

paisan

Anything you get beyond the last day of warranty is a bonus. By tipping, there is a greater chance that you will be rewarded for your tipping by them covering it under warranty. So by having your service done at the dealer (where they make $$$$ off you) then they are more likely to extend that bonus out of warranty work for you. Alternately tipping for warranty work may help in your favor to either get it warrantied, warrantied out of warranty, or future warranty work w/o a hassle.

-mike

joybell

.....the dealer or Subaru Head Office? It is Subaru I think. Maybe the dealers just want their customers to think it is up to them to decide and that they are being the "good guys" authorizing work when it is actually up to Subaru, since Subaru will be paying for it. So really, what good is a bribe? Bribe the dealer to make a phone call to Subaru? Bribe the dealer to roll back the odo reading on the work order? Bribery breeds corruption.

njswamplands

hondafriek

Mike, in essence what you are saying here, is that anybody who does their own servicing which happens to be a good proportion of the Subaru crew, should expect to get shafted when they go to the dealer.

 Lets take this scenario one step further with an extreme example, say you or somebody else has a let's say a Subaru with
 58K still in warranty and it's running great.

  You decide to stick a turbo on it and at 59,995 miles the engine blows up, the mechanic decides that the turbo caused extra strain on the engine and caused the blowup, but because of your history of tipping the service writer and mechanic (Wink Wink Nod Nod)you would expect preferential treatment.

  To me this is totally unethical, and more ridiculous than asking for a warranty extension on a part that is one week over and well under the milage warranty.

 Cheers Pat.

paisan

However, I wouldn't be suprised if the service writer would put the claim through and cover it under warranty.

-mike

stevek

I go to a small shop (owner + 3 employees) and what I do is at Xmas time I give each employee an envelope wiht money. This way I don't have to keep giving them money when I go in and they get a nice lump sum when they need it most.

hondafriek

You say you wouldn't expect it, but with so called tipping, bribery, or whatever you want to call it this is the result you would hope for, and wouldn't be surprised at.

  So explain to me the difference here, having a questionable warranty claim approved because you have a history of dropping a few bucks to the service writer and Mechanic or a part thats just out of warranty and under the milage.

  Now I understand that to the letter the last day of warranty is the last day but few if any car maker would have turned the warranty request down.

 Honda who are usually very strict as regards warranty would probably have approved a warranty extension in my case, I know of a number of instances were they have.

 And I will give you case in point, a very good friend bought new an 88 Accord after several years he had rust perforation on both rear quarter panels.

  He was under the warranty in time but well over the warranty in miles. He took it in to have the rust repaired fully expecting to pay, when he got it back Honda had covered it. He has still to this day all his servicing done at a small independent Mechanic, the only time he uses the dealer is for warranty repairs.

  Cheers Pat.

paisan

I don't expect any dealer/mfg to extend the warranty past the last day/milage of the coverage. However, if you tip on warranty service or you get the dealer to do your non warranty service (both ways you are putting $ in their pocket before your warranty is up) I would not be suprised if they extend the courtesy to you and give you extra special service after the warranty is up. Also if they were to cover your warranty part just out of warranty I would consider it a bonus as well. However I never expect anything beyond what is written in the contract.

-mike

bat1161

Patti,

To echo Frank P., any word on if and when we can do the plant tour? Just trying to work out vaction schedules with my co-workers. Thanks.

Mark

p0926

We're starting to go in circles here and I'm sure Patti's eyes are starting to cross :-)

So to sum it up:

a. Neither a dealer not the manufacturer is under any legal obligation to perform warranty work once the vehicle is 1 day or 1 mile out of warranty.

b. As a show of goodwill, manufacturers do sometimes cover part or all of an out-of-warranty claim but strictly on a case by case basis.

c. The circumstances that determine whether such a repair will be covered are too numerous to mention and certainly human nature plays a roll (I.e. politeness or rudeness)

d. Pat erred when he failed to get his CEL error code documented in writing prior to the warranty expiration date.

e. Regardless, "most" crew members agree that the repair should be covered because of the extenuating circumstances.

f. Unfortunately, none of us get a vote in the matter :-(

I think that about covers it. Now hopefully SOC will do the right thing and authorize the repair (just remember Pat, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar).

-Frank P.

hondafriek

Frank, I agree with your sentiments, Mike and I will have to agree to disagree as we have opposing points of view. I admit I should have had the first CEL documented even if it meant being considered a PITA. at the dealership.At that time there was no question it was in warranty.

  Cheers Pat.

paisan

What Frank said. Basically for the most part I agree, they should fix it, and if it were MY business I would do it. However my arguement was there is no REQUIREMENT for them to do it and that by having had it serviced there, you might have had/have a better shot at that grey area.

-mike

ateixeira

I liked the suggestion about giving positive feedback. You'd be amazed at what kind of good will that establishes.

I'm sure 99% of the calls to a manager are to complain about something.

So call them up and say, "your staff did an excellent job with my last service, I'll make sure to give a great review if I get a survey."

That's free and might garner the same results as tipping. Everyone wins.

-juice

hondafriek

Always give positive feedback, any time I have had anything done at the dealers there is always a survey form to rate the service

I have consistently given them a nine or ten in all areas because they deserved it. I have always taken pains to thank the service advisor for good service.

I believe in giving praise for good service, just as quickly as I would let you know about bad service.

  Cheers Pat.

joybell

I've been to the dealer twice for warranty repairs and haven't seen this survey form.

nygreg

I typically get them in the mail a week or two after the service. BTW - got my letter in the mail for the additive. I'll have them do a flush before adding as I will hit the big 6-0 within a week or two.

Greg

nctrnlrdhd

What is "piston slap". I am looking at buying an Outback here in the Houston area. I keep seeing the postings about piston slap, leaking oil, and wind noise. What does all this mean? I need a trouble free car. This is the first "new" car I am buying.

Also, does anyone know how service is here in Houston, TX. There are only four Subaru dealers in the metro area. This two concerns me. Overall, I like the Outback. The four cyl. seems a bit slow with the A/C on, but I am impressed by its emergency handling ability.

Thanks for any help you can give.
Conrad

hgutstein

Gillman North is the best service I think - Chris is the service manager. Did not buy there, bought from Billy at W. Houston. BTW, forget the Outback - Legacy handles better, basically same car for less $$. Don't need the extra ride height, even during flooding! I haven't floated away yet! Have had none of the above mentioned problems with either my Legacy or WRX

Hwoard

jay_24

just do a google search. There is lots of info on the web about it.

this is one article I think explains it well.

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/020320.htm

--Jay

hondafriek

My dealer leaves the survey form in the car after they have finished the servicing.

  Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

What does it mean? Take a thorough test drive. )

Listen to the engine before it warms up, you'd here any piston slap, it would be noticeable.

Drive the car on the highway and listen for wind leaks. The frameless windows are adjustable so it's not something they can't fix if there is a wind leak. Mine are quiet, and it's a '98, FWIW.

2003 and later EJ25 engines are treated from the factory and none of the Subaru Crew members have reported leaks on those newer cars.

Stick around, we have good resources here and the warranty covers 2 of those 3 issues for 5/60. The wind noise is covered under the B2B.

-juice

ozman62

Great link! I haven't seen that before. If you click on the 'Other articles by Jim Kerr' link, there's another excellent article, this one detailing the intricacies of the STI's DCCD system. A good read.
Owen

subaru_team

Goodwill decisions (any time the warranty is expired) are made by the dealer in most cases with funding (in most cases) from headquarters. Sometimes a dealer contributes for regular servicing customers. It makes sense for them to try to keep someones business. There are a lot of factors that come into play when the level of goodwill authority a dealer gets is decided. The dealer is the primary interface with the customer, so their input is important. I'm not sure how it works in Canada - or how Canadian customers are surveyed. It's not the same set-up as SOA.

But - you have to remember - it's just not fair to do things at 100% when someone didn't purchase an extended service agreement. We really hear all sides - folks that think they shouldn't have to pay anything for an out of warranty repair because the failure is "really rare - so it's the manuf. responsibility" or "it's really common, so it's the manuf. responsibility".

Either way - if you maintain a good relationship with a dealer, they will go to bat for you. When you contact the manuf., if you belittle the Rep. and become abusive, how hard is that Rep. going to work for you to convince the dealer to help? I try to work with our Reps. and ask time to keep the personality of the customer out of the equation, but it can be a real challenge. Sometimes you have to decide if you want to keep that particular owners business.

So - long and short of it - - as Juice always says - be polite. Have your facts and documents available and be reasonable. We'll do our best for you, but we cannot offer you the benefit of an extended service agreement if you haven't purchased one. That just wouldn't be fair.

Patti

subaru_team

I hope to have something solid (a few choices) tomorrow. I'll post here the moment I have them.

Patti

atomic_robot

Wanted to let you know that I've got a service appointment with my dealer this Friday to replace the plugs and fuel filter on my '01 OBW. While it's in the shop, they're going to take a look at the rust situation on the underside of the hood.

I talked to Fred at SOA last week and he said we should use the same case number from my head gasket work. I'll let you know what they have to say.

Thanks,

- Chad

jcabin

I have the knocking sound and then it turns into a loud sewing machine noise.

I have been in touch with SOA and they contacted me a week ago to say they were investigating the issue, but I have heard nothing since. Patti, I did put your name on the email!

leo2633

I was wondering if you were ever able to determine if the replacement wheel bearings the dealer put in my '01 Forester were the same as the one that was defective or if it was an upgraded or redesigned part. The case # for my head gasket problem was 585945, and Barry said the bearing issue was listed under the same #, even though it wasn't covered.

Thanks in advance,

Len

subaru_team

received the updated part - so....you shouldn't encounter problems in the future. If you do, you know where to find me!!! Sorry it took me a bit to post this. It kind of got away from me.

Thanks!
Patti

subaru_team

Hey all. It looks like things are leaning to the third weekend in June. The plant tour on the Friday or Monday around that weekend. Will that work? I haven't locked on anything until I read your feedback here. Let me know?

Thanks!

Patti

ladywclass

That should work fine for me ...
Brenda