Ford Focus SVT

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  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I just test drove an SVT Focus. Nice ride. A question about pricing, though. This car had the audio and cold wx packages, and a fee of about $1400 for "SVT Allocation Fee" or something like that. That brought the price to just over $21,000 MSRP.

    So two questions:

    1) Am I going to have to pay around MSRP if I want this car?

    2) Have others had to pay this allocation fee? Seems like alot of money.

    Thanks in advance for any responses.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    That's just another way to say "extra dealer profit" - it is totally bogus. You may or may not have to pay near MSRP - that's your choice - but I'd tell the dealer to lose the allocation fee or else.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    that doesn't sound right. Most of the deals I've seen people discuss were around MSRP or below. If there is another SVT dealer around, I'd check with them. Another option would be to contact a SVT dealer in another area (preferably somewhere where sport-compacts are not hot) and order it through them and they can ship it to your local dealer.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    also, check over on focaljet.com and you can find out information from SVT owners and some people from SVT itself.


    The following link goes to the SVT section of the forums


    http://www.teamfocaljet.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=36

  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    Thanks. I figured it was just mark-up. Quite frankly, at that kind of a mark-up, the car doesn't look that attractive IMO - it puts it too close to an Acura RSX-S.

    Of course I haven't started haggling on price yet, but their marked-up "sticker price" is an indication of where they want to be when the dust settles, and I don't know that I want to go there.

    There's another SVT dealer near by. I will check them out.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Ford is on its butt right now - they just posted another losing month, and their stock price is still slipping. Make an offer, and walk if you don't like what you hear. My local dealer had a $3K "Market Adjustment" sticker on an SVT Focus, and the salesman asked me what he could do to interest me in the car. I said "forget the second sticker" and he said "consider it gone". Remember - they need to sell the car, but you don't need to buy it. There are LOTS of cars out there, and no one "needs" an SVT car.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    actually at that price it makes the WRX look tempting. I don't think the RSX looks temping at its own price ;-)
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I'd take "my" $23K to the Suby dealer before I'd buy an ugly RSX - the Acura does nothing for me at all. If you want a Honda, buy an Si hatch and save yourself some $$.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    $21k strikes me as being a bit ambitious on the part of the dealer given the competition near that price.

    So the RSX is ugly, and the WRX, what? ... isn't? Hmm. Beauty is in the eye ... I'd call the RSX plain looking, and the WRX ugly, but that's just me. Besides, who cares about looks? Focus SVT buyers? ;-)
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Yeah, the WRX is nothing to shout about, you're right... but at least it is distinctive :) The RSX is bland in comparison. Heck, I find the SVT to be passable, but certainly nothing to get all breathless about.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    I agree - passable, but in this case as with the WRX and RSX performance "value" is what has my interest, not looks. I suspect this is true with many folks.

    Although I have heard rumors that there are some people who actually think the WRX is good looking. ;-)
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    Still think you should be able to get into a SVT Focus for roughly 18K-19K depending on how equiped. I'd tell them that I can get a Civic Si for less than that.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    The rumor is true. I think there is something ruggedly handsome about the WRX. It is not a pretty car, but it looks good in a totally different way. I also much prefer the look of the sedan with the flared fenders over the slab sided wagon. But the performance/practicality factor is so great on the wagon, if I was buying one, I would have a hard time choosing.

    The SVT I tested the other day was fully loaded and the sticker price wasn't too much over 18k.
  • alf3alf3 Member Posts: 83
    hey - can't take credit for finding this..read about it on a BMW discussion board....but good news....SVT is building a SVT ZX5 for 2003 - see link.....


    http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=12515

  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    That's good news for us family folks. With the unfortunate demise of the SVT Contour (good car!), there isn't a family car SVT anymore.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Ford Adds Five-Door SVT Focus. What do you think? ;-)

    image

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I think the five door Focus looks really awkward compared to the three door. I'm glad Ford is giving people a choice, but to be honest, SVT production seems to be about zero right now - there are barely any cars available at this time. I'd consider a three door IF I could get one without the sunroof and audiophile nonsense, and at a decent discount from MSRP.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    There are several SVT dealers here in Phx. and each has a couple.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    for the 2003 Ford (5- door) SVT Focus. Feel free to join us over there. Thanks for your participation.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Btw, to make it convenient for everyone, you'll now find a direct link to the new 5-door SVT Focus discussion in the Helpful Links on the left side of the page.

    Revka
    Host
    Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    How does everyone think that the SVTF will stand up? In 5 years will I be able to go to the parts store to fix those things that break? or will I need to pay expensive dealer prices? If the car will hold up the same as my 94 escort GT then I would be happy. But then I can go to any parts store and get the parts I need at a good price.
    Any opinions?
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    I would think so. 7500 SVT's for the first year, and probably somewhere around double that for 2003 is not too limited production. I would bet you would be able to get most things for it down the road at the local autozone-type store.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    It might be worth prowling the various SVT sites to see if owners of older SVT Mustang Cobras are having problems getting parts. The vast majority of parts in the SVT Focus are identical to the regular ZX3, but the drivetrain/suspension/trim parts that are unique to the SVT are probably going to be available mostly through dealers as opposed to the generic aftermarket.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    of course the tranny in the SVT Focus is the same as the one that goes into the MINI Cooper S, so that might help in the old parts department. Also the engine block is the same. I think the head, pistons and connecting rods are different though.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I don't know if the catalogues have it right or wrong, but the SVT and MINI brochures I have list the gearbox ratios, and they aren't the same. Both the SVT and the Cooper S use the Getrag twin output shaft 'box, but the actual gears seem to be different.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    interesting, last I heard it was the same exact box. Maybe that's wrong and they do have a different ratio?
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Ford says: overall ratios are 12.7, 7.7, 5.7, 4.6, 3.8 & 3.1:1

    MINI says: 11.43, 7.18, 5.40, 4.41, 3.66 & 2.97:1
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    I like the MINI's gearing a little better. Lowering first and second a little sounds good.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    I agree, but you need to look at gearing in combination with the power and torque characteristics of the engine... these two engines are probably quite different in how they make their power. As always, the engineers are playing a juggling game to extract maximum performance.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    If I do go with the SVT (and not the Si) the last thing I would want is a lack of parts down the road. I am not to concerned with the trans, as that is a quality piece. Its all those things that go wrong after the car gets 100K miles on it. I do plan on keeping the car for at least 6-8 years.
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    Boy, those are subtle differences. I too thought (from reading somewhere) that the Mini Cooper S and SVT Focus used to same transmission. I wonder if the external dimemsions are the same? The gearing differences are so small I wonder if you could really notice any difference? I figured out the ratio splits between the two and at most it's 2%. They are: SVT - 1st to 2nd 39%; 2nd to 3rd, 26%; 3rd to 4th, 16%; 4th to 5th, 17%, and 5th to 6th, 18%. The corresponding Mini splits are: 37%, 25%, 18%, 17%, and 19%. That's pretty darn close. If the mounting points and external dimensions are the same I think you'd need a pretty sensitive rear end and stop watch to tell the difference. I believe you have a choice of tire sizes on the Cooper S. I'm not sure what they are but I wouldn't be surprised if their overall circumferences didn't vary by one ot two percent. Speculation like this is what makes cars so fun. I remember when Fords had crank wind wings and Chevys were manual - which, of course, made for great arguements among the different camps.
  • silver_bulletsilver_bullet Member Posts: 1,339
    Someone should look up the ratios in the six speed Getrag fitted to the new Turbo S Beetle - this is supposed to be the same gearbox as the one in both the Cooper S and the SVT Focus, but as we've seen, the gears within the tranny aren't necessarily the same.
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    If either Road & Track or Car and Driver have tested the Turbo Beetle they should have the ratios of the 6-sp Getrag in there. Will have to do some research. Will report back if I come up with anything.
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    If Road&Track or Car and Driver has tested the Turbo S Beetle the ratios should be in there. Will check and report back. This should be interesting.
  • fgaydosfgaydos Member Posts: 319
    This has nothing to do with the SVT but not sure where else to ask?
    What effect does torque have on the power in driving?
    Here are four examples;
    Focus 130HP @5300, torque [email protected]
    Matrix 130HP @6000; torque [email protected]
    HyundaiGT [email protected]; torque [email protected]
    VibeGT; [email protected] 7600; torque [email protected] rpm

    Can someone break this information down and make a prediction of each cars performance?
    I'm curious about the Vibe with 180 Hp and 130FT Lbs. to all the others. Seems odd somehow?
    Also, is there an ideal HP to Torque ratio?
    TIA Frank
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,080
    There is still so much more to a car's performance. Just looking at these numbers won't help a tremendous amount. It just gives you a starting point. But a car's weight and gearing also play a major role.

    Is there an ideal ratio? Not sure about that one. I can tell you that I've found cars that have torque and hp numbers which are numerically similar to each other to be quite responsive. In other words, 180 hp and 180 ft.lbs. is a nice balance AS LONG AS (which brings me to another point) the hp and torque curve nicely along the RPM band. 180 hp all the way up at 7600 rpm isn't bad as long as I've got a good percentage of that number available at 2500. Personally, I like my torque down low and hp high. Seems like a nice balance for my driving habits. And it makes for a nice distribution of power throughout the band.

    Seems to me the starting point of the Vibe isn't a good one. That is a wide margin between hp and torque and both peaks are WAY up in the RPM band. It would make normal around town driving pretty darned sluggish. HOWEVER, if you had those numbers in a 2200 lb. car, it would probably be pretty quick. Am I helping at all?

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • clayman1000clayman1000 Member Posts: 69
    Yes, that is what I thought about the Vibe.
    Seems they really messed up with the engine. Nothing makes sense.
    Seems the 130HP Matrix above would be more responsive around town? But, not on the highway.
    Meanwhile the AWD feature is coupled with a 123Hp engine when it should have the 180Hp. The result of rushing a product to market?
    Thanks for the feedback.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 30,080
    Yeah, it does seem odd. The base matrix/vibe probably isn't too far off the GT/XRS model when it comes to performance (like we said, being that the torque is found lower in the power band). Does the GT/XRS come with a 6-speed? That might be its only help. The extra 100 pounds found in the GT/XRS more than likely sucks up any power advantage it has.

    '21 Wrangler 4xE, '07 ML63, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '14 Town&Country Limited, '10 Escape XLT v6. 56-car history and counting!

  • gmilsomgmilsom Member Posts: 1
    I was just down to my local SVT dealer on the weekend to drive the new Focus SVT, as they had a bunch in stock. I currently own a 2000 ZX3 5sp and after reading all the hype in Car and Driver and Road and Track, I was anticipating a car that would blow my socks off and leave me wanting to trade in my ZX3 on the spot. Well, I'm still driving my ZX3, sure the SVT looks great, has all the options, but the performance around town was about par with my ZX3. There was lots of traffic that day, and I was only able to get it over 4000 rpm briefly and you could feel a bit of a surge in power at that level, I thought maybe it had a bad tank of gas ? but then sales manager was telling me you have to really rev it, (no doubt I see the 170HP is @7000 rpm !) leaves me wondering if one has to rev it to 6-7k to really get it moving, how long is the engine, tranny, clutch going to last ?
    Anyone have a similar / different experience I am not inclined after this experience to upgrade, and am going to look at the GTI 1.8T.

    thanks,
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    I too owned a 2000 ZX3 5-sp and enjoyed it very much. Traded it in on an SVT after reading all the hype extolling its virtues. Indeed, the horsepower peak on the ZX3 was (is) at 5,300 rpm while the SVT is at 7,000 which suggests you really have to "crank it up" to get it to scoot. I think the 6-sp transmisson with its closer ratios compensates for this higher rpm rating pretty well. It does rev to 7,200 very easily but when I drive it "normally" (95 % of the time) shifting at 3-4,000 rpm as I did in the ZX3 it seems peppier than the ZX3. The ZX3 was adequately peppy for me, but even around town the SVT seems more responsive when I accelerate. When you get on the freeway you obviously notice the extra 40 horses a lot more. The down side, of course, is that you have to use premium fuel and the gas mileage is down, though not nearly what the respective (ZX3 ['02] 25/33, SVT 21/25) EPA ratings would suggest. I'm averaging ~ 27 mpg overall which is higher than the SVT's highway rating and I never even reached the 33 mph highway rating for my ZX3. The highest I ever got with my ZX3 was 32.1 mpg, while averaging ~30 mpg in 21K miles I had it. The SVT does seem to be more adversely affected by using the a/c and traffic than my ZX3. Nothing has changed in the type of driving I do. This past weekend I used up a whole tank on the open road (no significant traffic, no a/c, averaged ~ 70 mph) and got 29.3 mpg so was pleasantly surprised. The 21/25 EPA ratings for the SVT really put me off when I first saw them. Sure glad to see that, at least in the type of driving I do, they were quite pessimistic, whereas the ratings for my ZX3 were optimistic. Anyway, I enjoyed my ZX3 (in fact it's still sitting on the dealers lot after three months - not much of a market for '02 ZX3's with manual transmission, casette player, manual winndows, side air bags, and abs I guess) very much. I'm enjoying my SVT even more. Happy shopping.
  • dsm6dsm6 Member Posts: 813
    The biggest difference to me seemed not to be the engine, but the handling - especially near/at the limit handling. This of course is something you won't notice and can't exploit in traffic.

    That's not to say there isn't a noticeable difference from the SVT engine tuning.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    I thought they weight in the steering wheel was a noticeable difference. The SVT has a nice feel at the helm. The zx3 is nice but on the light side.
  • seminole_kevseminole_kev Member Posts: 1,722
    the SVT focus has a different steering ratio if I remember correctly.
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    I believe seminole_key is correct, the SVT does have a quicker steering ratio and also I believe the boost has been lessened i.e. the effort to turn the wheel has been increased. One drawback of the larger tires/wheels is that you need a four lane highway to make a u-turn! OK, so I'm exaggerating a bit but the SVT sure doesn't turn as sharply as the ZX3. As an aside, I rented a Jaguar XJ8 last weekend and drove from LA to Prescott AZ. That thing had variable boost steering. It was very easy to turn at parking lot speeds but firmed up considerably once you got moving. Took some getting used to. Didn't want to subject my black SVT to August temperatures in the desert and the trip would have put it way over its first scheduled oil change. Didn't particularly like the Jag. It was very reluctant to down shift when stepping on the gas to pass someone and more cramped in the front seat than a Foci.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Where in LA did you rent the Jag from (and how much)? I'm going to need a few good rentals soon.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    Prescott Is beautiful! You should go there for the Prescott Forest Rally at the end of the month. Too much fun for all to have!
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    Actually I got the Jag from Hertz at the Long Beach Airport. I've found that Budget usually has a selection of "upscale" cars at several of their airport locations (and in West Hollywood) but for some reason Hertz at the LBA has a "fun bunch." What's neat is that all the cars from all the vendors (Alamo, National, Avis, Hertz and a couple of others I think) are parked in an open lot next to the trailer where you rent the things. So I just wander around and see what looks tempting. The previous weekend when I was snooping I saw an X-Type 3.0 Jag but it wasn't there when I rented the XJ8. Oh yeah, the price. I was quoted $125/day with unlimited mileage. I decided to splurge and went for it. As I mentioned the other day, I wasn't that impressed with the XJ8. Liked my SVTF much better but it was a good cruiser. It had 10K miles on it when I rented it. When I returned it on Sunday evening (having picked it up the previous morning) a different person at the counter said, "The total comes to $478." I about croaked! She explained that it was $125/day with 200 miles included each day. Since I'd driven over 900 miles I was being charged 30+ cents/mile for the extra 500+ miles I'd put on the car. Wouldn't you know it, I never even looked at the contract. Fortunately, she believed me when I told her the lady who rented it to me said I was entitled to unlimited mileage. With my AAA discount the total came out to be $208. I was much relieved. Moral: READ THE CONTRACT before you sign it! Anyway, check some of these rental places out though (particularly at airports- smaller ones where you can walk to the cars and not have to take a shuttle are best - as they usually have a pretty good selection) and have a good time. I tried a Volvo S80 on the Phoenix trip and liked it much better than the Jag.

    Prescott is indeed a beautiful place. I took the I-10 from LA then turned off on Arizona 60 and took it (and highways 71 and 89) to Prescott. All good SVT roads. Although I stayed at my sister's place in Prescott, the main reason I went was to pick up some of the excellent corn they grow in Dewey which is about 15 miles east of Prescott. If anyone is in the area, a really good drive is from Prescott to Clarkdale (via Jerome) then ride the Verde Canyon RR in Clarkdale. Great train ride (takes about 3 1/2 hrs) and the road is a great SVTF drive - though I've yet to take it in my SVT. Thanx for the suggestion to watch the rally. I think I'll have to miss it though since I'm taking time off to go to the USGP at Indy at the end of next month.

    Sorry to stray so far off topic. Keep the shiny side up and the rubber side down.
  • muffin_manmuffin_man Member Posts: 865
    Thanks for the report.

    I just got back to LA and I have got to stop by the exotic car rental by LAX where they have the Modena sitting out front. How much could a day in it possibly be...?
  • scootchscootch Member Posts: 70
    I can only imagine what a Modena would cost and I think they give you something like 50 miles/day with some absurb mileage charge after that.

    I also rented a Lincoln LSV8 and wasn't that impressed with it either. I think it and the XK8 use the same transmission (ZF? BMW?) and the LS didn't want to downshift either.
  • csurams85csurams85 Member Posts: 6
    I know it doesn't count as stock but check out this web site: http://www.ford-v8-focus.com/


    I talked to the owner and you can drop in a factory fresh 302/5.0L 325 hp stock, with this kit for about $10K. Even though it is a highly modified car, it can, by the owners words pull low 13's to high 12's in the 1/4 mile. Wouldn't you love to pull up next to a Mustang, Camaro or even a Vette and smoke them?

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