How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

lemko

Yeah, my wife was just complaining about the price of food. I never heard her complain about it before.

lemko

If I were to commute a long distance, the Buick Verano looks like a good choice. Don't yet know enough about the Cadillac ATS. I live about 10 minutes from my job. I could walk there in 45 minutes or take the bus if I feel like it.

One good thing about high fuel prices is that it makes real estate in the city look more attractive. Neighborhoods close to center city that were once slums are starting to be redeveloped in Philly.

dieselone

If I were to commute a long distance, the Buick Verano looks like a good choice.

Or for a similar price you could get a Passat TDI and get well over 40mpg. Hard to beat a diesel on the hwy. The year and a half that I had a Jetta TDI I averaged about 45mpg over 35k miles. I think it was on auto blog, they averaged 44mpg over 700 miles in a Passat TDI 6 speed manual. IIRC, they got 730 miles on a single tank.

If mileage is a primary goal, you'd be better off with a Cruze Eco over a Verano. IMO, the mileage of the Verano isn't all that impressive. I've read it's comfortable and is very quiet, but there is a cost for that in extra weight.

michaellno

If I had to get a new car, I'd probably consider the Mazda 3 SkyActiv. Can get with a 6-speed manual and the EPA numbers are 28/38 (39?). Plus a bit of driving personality that doesn't exist with the Prius or Cruze Eco.

I spec'd out a Golf TDi and it was almost $28K. The Mazda, in top spec, runs about $25K sticker and there is a dealer in the Springs offering them for $21-22K.

But, I'm still getting 25-26 MPG out of my '06 Saturn ION (65K, 4-speed auto) in mostly city driving, so dropping $20K + on a new ride doesn't make much sense.

Even if I could get 35MPG from the Mazda, it would take a good long time to recoup the costs:

15,000 miles per year / 26 MPG = 577 gallons @ $3.79 = $2187
15,000 miles per year / 35 MPG = 429 gallons @ $3.79 = $1626

$561 saved in a year .. pish posh.

explorerx4

Lars, you crack me up, you never change.
Where does the power for your EV come from?
Lots of it is from coal.
I guess the fact that you can't directly see that is good enough justification for you.

larsb

Well, in "MY" personal case, since I have solar power, at least 24 kwh daily of MY EV charging would come from the Sun.

lemko

Check out those gas prices!

stever

And the guy checking the oil was making $3,855 a year if his salary was average.

gagrice

Those were the good old days. I was in HS and just got my license. Gas in CA was 22 cents a gallon back then. Lots of price wars dropped price to 18 cents a gallon. That was good because my Pontiac did not get over 10 MPG.

gagrice

Not likely in CA where minimum wage was $1.25. I went to work for the phone company in 1961 at $3250 per year and that was way above minimum wage.

stever

The average salary in 2010 was $41,600. I'm hoping someone will do the math and figure out the percentage of income that gas cost in the 50s vs now.

.29.9 may have been a ripoff.

dieselone

according to dollartimes.com 30 cents in 1956 is the equivalent to $2.53 today. Considering current cars are far more efficient the actual cost to fuel a car today is probably pretty close to what it was in the '50's only we do drive more etc.

gagrice

Gas is not the problem. Minimum wage should be $9.75 to stay up with inflation since 1959. Housing is the real killer. I sold my parents home in 1962 for $17,000. I started paying rent of $60 per month. That same home today according to Zillow is worth $265,900. Well over twice the rate of inflation. That home peaked at $500k in 2005. And if rents stayed with buying power, I should be able to rent a place for $450 per month. You cannot rent a room in San Diego for $450 per month. A two BR apt in a drug infested neighborhood is $1200 per month.

Even with the low interest rates on mortgages the average $41k income family today could not afford that home we lived in back in the late 1950s. And my dad made well below the national average working two jobs. We did not have new cars, cell service, Cable tv etc etc either.

If $4 gas messes up a person's budget, they are way over extended.

fintail

The perils of easy money. Debt is slavery. Look how powerful the FIRE industry cabal has become in those 50 years - virtually dictating national policy.

Not to mention back in those days, gas prices actually helped support a first world road network, unlike the crumbling nightmare we have now.

andre1969

And the guy checking the oil was making $3,855 a year if his salary was average.

Yeah, but just a year before, my grandparents sold a house, for about $5800, so it's all good! :P And it even had indoor plumbing!

berri

I agree that car and gas prices are not really correlated in a linear manner to the past. Today's cars have way more features and technology. As for gasoline prices, today we have OPEC, commodity paper speculators and it cost way more to get at a lot of the oil while EPA regs and costs are stressing refinery profitability which leads to shutdowns and consolidation.

explorerx4

exactly. you don't look at the overall picture.

stever

"Drill, baby, drill" and other hogwash designed to make Americans think the country can drill its way to cheaper pump prices gets a blast from reality when you consider one pesky fact: Domestic crude-oil production has reached historically high levels yet gas costs haven't come down to earth.

But despite the rhetoric, America appears to be over-supplied with oil. The story starts with a recent tale of a 940-foot tanker that returned to Valdez recently with 300,000 barrels of oil it couldn't deliver to Washington refineries because onshore storage tanks there were full."

At this rate they'll have to shut the Alaska Pipeline down. Crazy.

Refineries full, tanker sent back to Valdez with oil (Alaska Dispatch)

berri

Speculators and derivatives! If these people had to actually either sell or take title at some point I think gasoline would probably be at least 50 cents/gallon cheaper. It isn't just Wall Street because London is just as guilty.

gagrice

Don't forget margins. When you can tie up a million barrels of oil for less than 10% of its value, it is a speculators dream. Congress was going to do something about that in 2008 and did nothing.

I don't see oil going back much below $100 a barrel. Drilling will increase our own supply. But it takes at least 10 years to develop and start production on a new field. I think there are many factors involved in keeping the price high.

berri

Good point and so very true

hpmctorque

Interesting, but not surprising, how there are a lot more comments when the price of gas goes up than when it declines, as it's been doing recently.

Question - not that anyone knows, because you'd have to know when the next big crisis occurs, but just for fun - when will unleaded regular first top $5.00 per gallon? Let's see who comes closest. I'm going to guess July 2013. Your guess?

fintail

Just like how prices shoot up at the first hint of any issue (real or speculated), then slowly fall.

In WA state, prices are not falling, due to "refinery issues" or some such nonsense. Still seeing premium around $4.50 often.

michaellno

In WA state, prices are not falling, due to "refinery issues" or some such nonsense. Still seeing premium around $4.50 often.

Same here in Colorado .. RUG at my local station has been at $3.799 for several weeks now, despite the fall in crude oil prices.

hpmctorque

A lag between when pump prices decline after a drop in crude prices isn't unusual, but you should start to experience price relief at the pump fairly soon.

The reason I selected July '13 for $5 RUG is that it's unlikely to happen this year. Two thousand twelve is almost half over, which reduces the probablity that prices will spike this year. Global commodity prices in general are weak due to economic weakness and slowdowns in all major economies. For example, each of the BRICS is experiencing growth slowdowns, and they were the major drivers of increasing demand. For this reason, I expect oil to remain below $100 for the remainder of this year, and probably drop some from here.

I think there's ~50% chance that there'll be a military, political, financial or terrorist crisis sometime in '13 that'll cause a disruption in oil supplies, resulting in a spike to $5+ at the pump. Why July? Well, if you have to pick a month, gas prices generally rise during the heaviest driving season. That would be a minor factor compared to a crisis, but a factor, nevertheless. So, that's my shot in the dark, but I would put only small odds on the timing.

gagrice

I just topped my PU at Shell $4.39. ARCo is also $4.39. Costco jumped from $4.03 to $4.15 in the last two days. Diesel is selling for less than RUG. Most places you can get diesel at $4.11.

motorcity6

In Venice, Fla all the snowbirds have left and gas prices have swooned..Switched from Shell to Sunoco due to lack of incentives. The deal at Sun is no big deal but it is cheaper than Shell and delivers better mileage..Filled up last Wednesday w/premium@$3.90.. Maybe the engine is finally getting broken in @70k..Buy my smokes at Murphy Oil and the price for a carton went up $1.00..Tough to get ahead!!!!

Gas prices will sink farther, but in the long run they will rise again, it's part of the agenda, smaller cars, better mileage, and less consumption overall plus the "Global Warming" BS, and the dollar's value sinking, all combined to equal higher future prices..Just look at the future economy regulations that the auto guys blessed, the fix is on the table..

I remember the 18 cent/gallon petrol I was feeding my 2 Porsches back in the late-50s..

stever

July 2013?

I dunno, seems way too early, considering that our economy is still sputtering and the EU is in crater mode. China is still growing but even they have slacked off.

I filled up for $3.67 today, so that's down about .40 cents from the recent highs.

Maybe 2018 but I bet we won't see $5 a gallon gas until after the twenty-teens.

xwesx

I think that's probably a fairly accurate guess for a first-time, wide-spread spike.

I think April 2014 is when we'll see $5.00 RUG as the norm, with prices unlikely to drop below that regularly from there (or widespread).

My thinking is that, from what I have seen over the last decade, we get these quick $0.50 to $0.80 rises, everybody complains, bemoans the price of fuel, knee-jerks in one way or another, and then gets used to it. Prices fluctuate around that new level for a while, settle in $0.20 to $0.30 lower than the high, and then stay that way for a year before spiking again the next year.

The only time that varied significantly was in 2008, when prices mirrored those we currently see, then dropped a full dollar before settling in and slowly climbing back up.

So, this year we received our spike, prices will continue to go back up before settling in at about $4.20, we'll get another spike next year that will likely see the first serious round of $5 RUG, they'll settle in around $4.70 to $4.80, and then in April 2014 they will spike to a dollar more than the prices we see now and settle in to around $5.20 to stay. :sick:

bobw3

I don't believe in any gas price "agenda" or any other conspiracy theory. As the economy improves, so will the demand for gas, especially as more and more folks in China and India buy cars. Regardless of global warming theories or any environmental concerns, the less dependent on gas we (the USA) become now, the less the impact when gas prices do go up. Gas is a global commodity and what goes on outside of the USA will impact the price of gas much more then on USA rules and regulations. If you're driving a car getting 50mpg, then the financial impact of paying $4, $5, or $6/gal will be less than if you're only averaging 25mpg. Basic math.

hpmctorque

The article linked below from today's New York Times supports what you wrote about gas prices in your area...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/25/us/in-western-washington-drivers-see-gasoline-- prices-heading-the-wrong-way.html?smid=pl-share

fintail

I guess when you can't get away with a national gouge, some regions get picked off. As this place has historically tolerated high gas taxes, maybe they knew this would fly too.

I mean, it's all supply and demand.

michaellno

RUG has come down .12 in the past week or two here in Colorado. Now at 3.679.

mmccloskey

While up in C'ville shopping, I stopped by the Sam's club for gas. The local morning news has a 'gas price watch' segment and they posted the lowest prices in C'ville with Sam's being $3.25 point 9 for RUG. Well, when I drove up to the station, the guy was changing (lowering) the price by 5 cents on the sandwich sign in front. So, I saved a whopping 35 cents on the 7 gallons I filled up the Frontier with. I filled up my Venza there last week and the price was $3.39 point 9 so the price has dropped nearly 20 cents in a week. IIRC, the highest price at Sam's earlier this year was $3.78 point 9 so the price per gallon has dropped nearly 50 cents at least at this station anyway.

Happy and safe motoring this busy holiday weekend.

M. J. McCloskey

stever

How is it this week?

"Gas also fell below $3 in Harrisonburg, Va. It could hit $2.99 or lower in Georgia, Missouri and Oklahoma perhaps as soon as this weekend, according to Tom Kloza, chief oil analyst at Oil Price Information Service.

Gas hasn't been below $3 per gallon anywhere in at least two months."

Gas prices fall below $3 in two states (csmonitor.com)

mmccloskey

Update:

Up in C'ville again on 6/2/12 - price at Sam's was 3.18 point 9. Only a 2 cent drop from the week before but I'm sure buy the middle of the coming week it will be $3.10 or less. Not an incentive to drive more but with a drop of nearly 60 cents per gallon from it's peak (local prices of course), I don't hesitate to venture out and enjoy the drive. With a new Trader Joe's coming to C'ville in about 5 months, I won't have to drive to Short Pump (Richmond area) to load up on treats and provisons saving even more gas!!

Regards - M. J. McCloskey

stever

A journalist would like to speak to someone who fuels up with 85 octane and has experienced engine issues or a weaker performance at lower elevations because of it. If you use or have used 85 octane, and would like to share your story with a reporter, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, June 20 at 2 p.m. Pacific/5 p.m. Eastern.

gagrice

My only experience with 85 octane gas was on vacations to CO and NM. My best mileage ever in the Sequoia was with 85 octane gas. One tank 293 miles got 20.59 MPG and the next tank of 288 miles yielded 19.64 MPG. I have never gotten over 17.41 MPG with CA gas. Rot gut gas at the highest prices in the country.

gagrice

Will we see $4 gas by the end of the week???

(Reuters) - Oil surged on Friday in heavy trading to the fourth biggest daily gain on record, as a deal by European leaders to shore up euro zone banks triggered frantic short-covering by funds that had been riding crude's price collapse over the last quarter.

Oil's gains for the day came as part of a wider market rally, with the euro and world stocks rising after euro zone leaders agreed on measures to cut soaring borrowing costs in Italy and Spain and recapitalize regional banks.

Brent crude oil futures rose more than $6 a barrel to near $98 while U.S. crude jumped by more than $7 to settle just below $85 a barrel -- the fourth largest daily gains in dollar terms since the contracts were launched.

Crude drew further support from a strike in Norway that cut production of oil and natural gas liquids by 230,000 to 250,000 barrels per day, or up to 13 percent of the capacity of the world's No. 8 crude exporter.

"The NYMEX just went wild. It never looked back. Just up, up and away." said John Troland, an independent energy advisor in Houston, referring to the New York Mercantile Exchange where benchmark U.S. crude oil futures trade.

fintail

No actual supply and demand in all that, just speculation - same with the economic and currency news. What an economic system. Should be good bonuses in southern Manhattan this year.

gagrice

BELLINGHAM, Wash. -- It's dangerous, illegal and hard to imagine, but a Canadian man was recently caught filling up plastic garbage bags with gasoline.

It's no secret that lots of Canadians drive to Whatcom County Costco or Fred Meyer stores to fill up their tanks. One woman said she saves $17 on just one tank of gas by filling up in America.

While there's nothing wrong with wanting to save some money, Sgt. Mark Dennis of the Washington State Patrol said one man went too far when he filled plastic garbage bags with gas at a Bellingham Fred Meyer.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Man-caught-filling-garbage-bags-full-of-gasol- ine-166607636.html

xwesx

Hahaha; there' cheap, and there's that. :surprise:

fintail

Canadians in Bellingham...oh the stories that could be told.

Premium is well over $4 here now, hasn't changed my habits any as I simply don't drive a large mileage.

gagrice

The line of traffic coming from Mexico to shop in the USA is insane. 3-4 hour wait getting into the USA is not uncommon. I don't think many buy gas here though. Unless they ran low sitting at the border crossing.

stever

"Don't waste your wallet space with gas credit cards.

They tend to be costly with few rewards and don't have the flexibility of a general-purpose credit card, experts say."

Few Rewards With Gas Credit Cards (WSJ)

dieselone

I have a chase bp visa card which provides a 3% rebate from BP stations, 2% on dining and travel, and 1% on all other purchases. So it's worth having in my opinion. It used to be a 5% rebate but is was reduced this year.

stever

Annual fee?

dieselone

No annual fee.

stever

That could work. Don't think I drive enough annually to make it better than the 5/1% Chase rewards card I'm using now, but if you have a commute it'd make sense.

dieselone

How does your chase 5/1 card work? Now that BP reduced the gas rewards I'd certainly be open to other options. The other card I use is a discover more card which gives 5 percent rebate on different categories every 3 months.