How does gas at $4 and higher impact you?

imidazol97

Thanks for the review link. Interesting. I had wondered about those.

imidazol97

Does she have access to natural gas? Is that cheaper? On This Old House they hook up boxes on the wall for water circulation heat that heats the house and provides heat for hot water on demand.

stever

Boise is a banana belt. Have to drive to the snow, it's rare for it to snow in town or stay more than a couple of days. 45 for the high there today and bright sun, heading for 55 by the weekend. It's not the winter fuel bills that you have to worry about, it's keeping cool on those 105 degree afternoons. Even then, it usually drops nicely in the evening.

The in-laws just got one of those whole house hot water furnace gizmos and they are real happy with it. They are on propane though; natural gas would be cheaper.

Here in the UP I stay warm shoveling snow. :shades:

Gas popped another dime here to $3.89.

larsb

My garage is usually 10 degrees cooler to 20 degrees warmer than the outside air. Difference is usually greater in the winter - It can be 60 in the garage when it's 40 outside. Summer, I'm usually closer to 10 degrees cooler than outside.

xwesx

Okay, thanks. Even still, you're going to see temps as high as what, maybe 110 in there? That said, you also mentioned you never once turned on the electric elements in the Marathon, so it must do well in those cooler temps, too.

Do you notice any appreciable difference in the garage's room temperature as a result of the pump? You noted the output air is "cold." Also, what is the approximate size of the room? I apologize for all the questions... you've piqued my interest! I read all through your blog during lunch today!

My wife wants us to buy a place down in Pennsylvania soon, and reading through your solar panel story makes me wonder if that might not be a good idea for that place. With only being there for two to three months a year, we might be able to sell significant watt-hours back to the grid. She's talking about seeing if her uncle would like to live there full-time so that the place is occupied year-round, which would be a doubly-good fit since he is really "into" that sort of thing.

explorerx4

I just told someone today about how wood warms you 5 times.
You cut it, split it, stack it, carry it into the house, then burn it.

stever

It also heats my wife up as I complain about it. Had a wood stove in Boise and after ~7 years, I pulled it out and stuffed it in the garage. :-)

Don't forget cleaning out the ashes, and falling off the roof trying to keep the creosote down with the chimney scrubber.

Heading down the road at 6 am, assuming the plows are out early. Be curious to see how traffic is - from the Wisconsin webcams, traffic seems to be pretty steady around Milwaukee and Madison (going the western route south this trip).

andres3

For the 91 octane I need to run best and most efficiently.

I suppose these high gas prices make me want to cut my horsepower cravings. Instead of an S4 the A4 suddenly looks more appealing.

andre1969

Does she have access to natural gas? Is that cheaper?

I don't know how much natural gas prices are around here, but I've heard that it is a lot cheaper. The house next door to mine has natural gas (or at least, the real estate listing said it did when it was last on the market), but I don't know if that's a mis-print or not. But, it's on the other side of the road from my grandmother's place, and about 300 feet away, so I'm sure that getting her hooked up wouldn't be cheap!

Once upon a time, they used to use a wood burning stove in the basement that would keep the whole house nice and toasty. That helped keep the oil bill down. But, Granddad died back in 1990, and at the age of 88 and with macular degeneration, I don't think it's a good idea to have Grandmom chopping wood and playing with fire! :surprise:

larsb

Yep it's been as hot as 110 in there on occasion. But in the summer, we don't really need "hot" showers. I set the temp on the AirTap to 120 degrees, and we hardly ever run the shower on "all the way hot" in the summer.

As far as the cold air the AirTap produces, it's minimal at best. It might drop the front half of the garage (my garage is a 2-car garage, so about 8'h x 20'd by 15' w) a degree or two, if it runs for three hours. Not much impact there.

I used SolarCity and got a cheapo lease, so it's really a good deal for me, being that Phoenix has 300-310 sunny days every year. So do the math and see if solar would work for you. Many times it does not, but sometimes it does !!! :shades:

xwesx

Hahah; maybe that punctured fuel tank was a metaphor. :P

imidazol97

I don't know how much the heat units that hang on the wall for water and heating cost, but it might be worth the changeover for efficiency as well as lowering her cost for natural gas if the oil boiler is old.

It would be worth a check with the gas company to see if lines do run in front of her home. Our home was built when gas hookups were forbidden in the 70s. Some people got together and ran a gas line for 4 or 5 of them near us, but not to us. Changing a heat pump on a slab to gas would require some concrete cutting, but I would have considered it then and now to get a double sourcce unit with gas for colder periods and heat pump for the warmer days.

explorerx4

Since you left already, I'll take your next post to mean you made it ok.

andres3

In California you'd probably have to do 1 million dollars worth of Environmental, wildlife, economic, and green impact studies before they'd let you build a big gasoline Tank on your OWN property.

However, if I lived in a State that wasn't Totalitarian I'd of probably bet on fuel rising when it went down to about $3/gallon and bought a 1,000 gallon tank of gas to bury in my backyard or mount on the roof :P. Would have been a good bet right now.

stever

Just a couple of hours of driving 45 to 50 until the roads cleared. :-)

Mileage is just so-so. Hope the canoe on top is enjoying the ride. Gas isn't much cheaper yet - in Southern Illinois tonight, so easy ~7 hour drive tomorrow.

The odometer rolled over 170,000 and I missed it. :sick:

xwesx

170? That's the mileage of my Caravan when I bought it. It had 196,000 on it when we left for our 2009 trip to Pennsylvania and 210,000 when we arrived home. :shades:

Congrats! Maybe you'll be fortunate enough to catch the 180,000 roll.

dieselone

The odometer rolled over 170,000 and I missed it. :sick:

I hate it when that happens;)

dieselone

It had 196,000 on it when we left for our 2009 trip to Pennsylvania and 210,000 when we arrived home. :shades:

I know a GPS can take you out of the way, but wow;)

fezo

Ages ago, in the days of real odometers, a guy I knew had promised another friend that when his car was ready to roll over he'd pick him up so they could both watch it. He realized it was going to roll a few miles before he had the chance to get him - so he drove maybe 4 or 5 miles in reverse to go pick up his buddy.

dieselone

so he drove maybe 4 or 5 miles in reverse to go pick up his buddy.

Awesome, it's like "groundhogs day" you can do it over and over!

In HS a friend of mine would pick me up in his mom's Cadillac Cimarron. I know, I know... Anyway, she'd check the odometer to try to limit our driving around. Well, we figured out you could disconnect the speedometer cable from the cruise control box and presto, no more miles. Granted we didn't have a speedometer, but he'd just use the tach. God only knows how many miles we put on it with out her knowing;) Damn kids!

xwesx

Hahahaha! Well, we put about 10K on it just in the drive there and back (we live in Fairbanks, Alaska), plus my wife and children were there for six weeks visiting friends and family. They didn't sit idle....

gagrice

explorerx4

You can try to catch 171717. :shades:

berri

A friend of mine in high school had an older sister that lived with them who bought a 65 Mustang convertible. She worked in the Loop and took the train, so after school the convertible was in the garage. Of course, we would hot wire it for some top down spins. My buddy was very good at figuring how much gas to put in it so the needle would return to where it was. Luckily it wasn't his old man's car because he was an engineer and would have paid attention to odometer instead of the fuel gage placement.

dieselone

Well, we finally his $4/gal yesterday. I new I should have filled up on Thursday. The Expedition is on fumes, may be close to a $100 fill up when I head out today.

stever

A car wreck shuts down a pipeline for a few days.

Enbridge says no timeline for Illinois pipeline restart after deadly vehicle accident (Calgary Herald)

And the Keystone Pipeline is getting back on track. Moving more crude through the US will ironically have the effect of raising gas prices.

Keystone Oil Pipeline Seen Raising Gas Prices in Midwest (Bloomberg)

gagrice

What would you expect from a backward state like Illinois. I imagine the different Unions fought over who gets the work repairing the pipelines. :P

berri

I always see California and Illinois as two in the same except for climate and topography - tax and spend.

gagrice

CA & IL seem to have a death wish on running off business and taxing whoever is left to death. I think IL leads on property taxes and CA on job killing regulations. I thought my property taxes were bad until I talked to a friend in Illinois. Other states are over the top on prop tax as well. And CA is usually number one on gas tax.

http://www.commonsensejunction.com/notes/gas-tax-rate.html

gagrice

andres3

I worked in construction management in CA, and god forbid you allow some dirt to get off your site when it rains and down the storm drain.

The amount of time, effort, cost, and training spent on not letting a bit of dust enter the storm drains is LUDICROUS.

I understand not letting oil and gasoline down the drain, but natural erosion?

xwesx

Wow. Alaska has the lowest combined rate, yet among the highest total PPG. That's what monopolies do! :sick:

andre1969

I understand not letting oil and gasoline down the drain, but natural erosion?

They probably like to make the argument that erosion from a construction site isn't natural, but man-made.

See, now if you'd spray down that soil on the construction site with used motor oil, it would cut down on the dust, and probably help out some with erosion control, too! :P

Plus, I guess if enough dirt goes down the storm drain, eventually it might hit a spot in the system somewhere, where the water slows down and the silt settles out to the bottom. And over time, that could catch debris and crap, and eventually, theoretically, make a clog in the storm drain?

gagrice

I could never understand that. You have a refinery in FBKs and still gas was always over priced. I think it has to do with the fact that they bring finished product up in the tankers as ballast. So that has to be sold. It was always horrible out in the villages. Like Nuiqsut that has no barge service. All had to be flown in by Everett's DC6 tankers.

xwesx

The only reason for the high price is the monopoly. The refinery pulls its product right out of the pipeline, takes what it needs, and the rest goes right back in. Many of the products aren't refined at all - they are distilled. Heating oil, which is distilled, should cost maybe $3 per gallon to the end consumer building in profit for the refinery and the distributor (the distributors fill up at the refinery and deliver to the consumer's home). Instead, it's running at $4.40 last I heard, and the distributor (who is also paying for diesel to run the trucks, etc) marks it up $0.50. So, who's the bandit here? :sick:

The villages - that's just a nightmare. Did you hear about the winter fuel delivery to Nome fiasco?

stever

Thank goodness for the Russians eh?

gagrice

The years I maintained phone service in our 9 Arctic Villages diesel and gas was usually double the in town price. From 1981 till I retired in 2006 the villagers transitioned from just 3/4 wheelers and snowmachines to almost exclulively using PU trucks and SUVs. I don't ever remember filling up our company trucks for less than $4 per gallon even in the 1980s.

xwesx

I don't ever remember filling up our company trucks for less than $4 per gallon even in the 1980s.

Yeah, I can believe it. Right now, fuel (RUG) in Nome is around $6/gal, Bethel is $6.50, and most of the small towns/villages are between $7 and $10 (many closer to $10). I haven't heard anyone mention a price north of ten yet, though, probably because the fuel they're using now was the stuff purchased in September (which makes the price relatively stable over the winter). They won't get shipments again until the rivers open, which means June deliveries at most locations.

That was the issue with Nome. It wasn't that they were out of fuel, just that they projected they would run out by the time the first barges arrived in a few months (from now).

Personally, I think they should have just sweat it out: Ration the supplies at the standard price and charge a massive premium for any quantities in excess of that amount. That would certainly teach them not to wait until the last moment to order the final Fall shipment. Oh well; we all need a grand publicity stunt now and again! :P

gagrice

The Nome fuel delivery was a massive fiasco, equal to Saving the whale on the ice in Barrow a while back. That got the Russians involved as well. Fuel supplies are something the villages should not take chances on. It does keep Everetts making money with his old DC6 I believe it is tankers. A few villages like Anaktuvik Pass have no real choice but air service. I spent a lot of time in that village waiting for planes and parts.

lemko

...in Alaska? Here's a clip from a "Chilly Willy" cartoon from the 1950s:



Notice, the tab for a stack of pancakes is $60!

stever

Depends on whether you are on the road system or not.

xwesx

Hah! No, not THAT expensive. I'm not sure what might make for reasonable comparisons, but here are a couple in line with the theme of that cartoon:

A typical lunch menu for, say, a burger, sandwich, etc., at a "sit-down" restaurant will run $10-12. Subway foot-longs are $7+. A medium specialty pizza at Pizza Hut is $16.00, large $18, and stuffed crust an extra $4. (I know that because I just happened to be there on Monday - what a shocker!) 10# of sugar at Sam's Club is just shy of $8, milk is about $3.50 for the plain-Jane variety, 10# of flour at Wal-Mart or other supermarket is $4.00-4.50, apples are generally $2/#, grapes $3.50/#.

The last time I was in America, I don't recall thinking the store prices were really that much cheaper, but restaurants sure seemed like a bargain! It wasn't hard to have lunch at one (a real one, not fast food) and leave paying $10-11 including tip. Here, not so much.

xwesx

Very true. Here's a link to the Cooperative Extension's food cost survey. It shows the cost of a set list of "basic" food items purchased at normal prices in various communities throughout Alaska on a quarterly basis.

gagrice

Prices here in San Diego have risen dramatically for food over the last 3 years. Coffee is up 50% at Costco, CH Sugar has doubled to about $7 for 10# at Costco. Apples are high this time of year at about $1.29 lb. Bananas are still the cheapest food you can buy. Just saw them for 59 cents a lb. Grapes are rarely less than $2lb. Just bought more tomatoes locally grown 2lbs for $1. We rarely pay more than a dollar for a head or bunch of lettuce. Milk is artificially held high by the State. Half gallon of 2% is $2.99. I don't drink milk but think you can buy two gallons at Costco and get it cheaper. Eating out is all over the place. Just had a so so burger out with friends and it was $11. Not worth more than $7. We can get a breakfast burrito that will fill up my wife and I $4. Subway is about 6 bucks with chips and drink. We always have pizza wars that make them pretty cheap. Seems everyone around here likes little Caesars pepperoni large $5 and 3 meat large for $8. Coupons come every week in the mail. So food staples are inflated produce not so bad.

Our local Boy Scouts were having a food drive and wanted canned goods for the Salvation Army. We have a Dollar Tree that sells name brand canned vegetables for 79 cents a can. We bought a dozen cans and dropped them off. Not big on canned veggies. Except beets.

fezo

Beets, huh?

Oddly I like canned asparagus....

gagrice

We have been getting the nicest fresh asparagus lately. From 77 cents to $1.29 per lb. The white asparagus is also good, but a lot more expensive.

We take the canned sliced beets and put them into Bread & Butter pickle juice with one habanero pepper cut in half (be very careful). After a couple weeks they are just perfect on salads. The B&B pickles are good that way as well. We grow beets but fight the critters for the greens.

Shell Gas is $4.49 and diesel $4.59 today. Not driving as much and getting more yard work done. That is the positive aspect of high gas prices.

xwesx

Asparagus isn't worth eating unless it is fresh. I have horrible memories of mush asparagus from childhood. Horrible. I think I paid $1.25 a pound (first four pounds only - after that it was $3.49!) last week. Oh, so tasty!

You're right, though, the basic goods (dried goods) are the stuff going up the fastest. I don't think the "TV dinner" crowd is feeling the pinch quite as badly yet. The vast majority of my monthly food consists of basic goods, though, so we keep having to cut, cut, cut in order to maintain budget (even allowing for reasonable increases).

Yard work?! Seriously? I probably burned fifteen gallons of fuel between Tuesday and Wednesday using my plow truck to clear snow in my neighborhood. I went out Tuesday morning and cleared 7", then that evening I cleared another 7 or 8. Wednesday evening I moved 5 or 6 more, and it mostly stopped coming down after that.

Haha, yard work. I still have another two months before I even consider such an endeavor. :P

gagrice

You think you have problems with snow. Try keeping the weeds out of flower beds like these.

xwesx

Oh! You just had to go there.

dieselone

I used to like you;)