Ford Explorer Mercury Mountaineer 2005 and earlier

vishs

I just experienced power loss on the road when making a low-speed right turn into my development. Lost power steering and braking. Fortunately there were no cars at the corner. Managed to stop within 100 yards on the side. Upon shutoff and restart everything was fine. System check revealed no problems. Checked oil OK. Anyone experienced this and any causes/resolution? 22 months and 18K miles only. :mad:

fitguy

Regarding U-Haul, they are idiots. I sent a very well written email to their corporate office, asking for an explanation of this "No Explorer" policy and what data they had found linking Explorer's to be more prone to problems while towing; and proof that the accepted data regarding rollovers was directly attributable to tire make, low inflation, and high speeds- NOT vehicle design, what had they found to the contrary. I rec'd a reply form some know-nothing drone that basically stated: "this is our policy to minimze potential liability; end of story" As someone that has rented U-Trailers for over 15 yrs, and has considerable expertise moving and shipping heavy equipment via rented trailers, trucks, vans, and common carrier I frequently get asked for advice regarding small truck rentals- I now steer everyone away from U-Haul; the company has been in decline for years and is just plain screwed-up. Over 50% of the trailers we rented had light problems or tire issues; now I simply spend an extra $15/day and rent a van from Enterprise when I need small bulk item transport. Saves the miles on my Explorer and they give me unlimited mileage via our company account. I always had used Ryder for box truck rentals; much nicer trucks for less money, with better service. Sorry for the long post but you struck a nerve with the U-Haul thing!

explorerx4

i agree. uhaul sucks. it is not totally the fault of the local renter. they get basically no money from renting a trailer. corporate gets it all.
everthing i everything i have ever rented from them has been below standards.

daryll44

Just read in the WSJ that "automakers return to deep discounts". I said Explorer would sell for $10,000 below sticker by Xmas. See....I told you so!

explorerx4

it remains to be seen. gm's red tag program is a 'no haggle' price. it does not mean the discounts are huge.

mschmal

This post is not correct. It is not a "no haggle" price program.

The red tag is the max. price a dealer may charge.

Mark

explorerx4

you are correct, but that is not how the program is being presented. it is always possible for someone to negotiate a lower price. i doubt it could be a lot lower, in general.

mschmal

The "Keep It Simple" program runs 11/16/05 through 1/3/06. Includes all 05s and 06s except for Fusion/Milan/Zephyr, GT, Mustang. I'm sure the will add hybrids.

This is a Max price plan. The price is calculated as x-plan price + $100. This is basically invoice or less than 50 to 100 over invoice. A deal a savy consumer could have negotiated on their own in most cases.

This leaves the consumer with hold back plus $400 dealer cash to try to get from the dealer.

Its clear that Detriot seems bent on forcing the dealers to sell at a fixed profit.

Mark

daryll44

What's clear is that Ford and GM have to squeeze everyone...suppliers, dealers, workers...just to maybe stay alive. Looks very grim for GM. The big SUV gamble paid off in the short run but the long term has arrived.

explorerx4

in march '04 i bought an escape limited for better than x-plan price, for which i am elegible.
some are taken in by something marketed as 'Red Tag' or 'Keep It Simple'.

mschmal

A lot of people put off doing things that are unenjoyable, uncomfortable, or even down right scary.

Negotating the price of a car is one of those things. This is just a marketing attempt to try to get some show room traffic.

When my sister baught her first new car, she got a good price and she was so happy. Then some jerk at work told her she got ripped off? She was in tears and the whole new car thing was ruined for her until I showed her that she did get a good price.

People HATE buying cars. If marketing can convince people that its not so bad. Then I say GREAT!

Mark.

marsha7

most folks HATE buying a car, often because they cannot, or do not enjoy, the negotiating process...so, they often get stuck with MSRP less $500, and grumble about the price, but cannot stand up and offer $1000 less...

So, these Red Tag, Employee pricing, rebates, etc., offer "guaranteed" discounts off MSRP that the majority of folks would NEVER NEVER get on their own...so, it is a true discount to them...the fact that a hard negotiator may do better does not matter...what matters is that with a $5K rebate, or whatever the gimmick, they can buy the car for much less than they ordinarily would have paid...

jeepem

You can go anywhere without hearing about how the 05/06 Explorer and Mountaineer prices are dropping, but I'm looking at either a 2003 or 2004 Mountaineer (b/c of price), and can't help but wonder if the used prices will fall also.
I read somewhere on this board that it "should" happen, but would like others opinions also.

mschmal

In NJ, an 03 or 04 with less than 36k miles on it should retail for less than 20k, unless its an Eddie Bauer or Limited which might be up to 22k.

If you are waiting for prices to drop below 15k, you will have to wait along time, or accept more millage.

Assuming you don't drive over 15k miles a year, you should really consider a lease. You can be in the low 400s a month with little out of pocket. Explorers depreciate so fast, its almost a shame to buy one. (this depreciation is a result of the huge numbers of Explorers produced, not necessarily a function of the Explorer's quality.)

Mark.

chuck1

"In NJ, an 03 or 04 with less than 36k miles on it should retail for less than 20k, unless its an Eddie Bauer or Limited which might be up to 22k."

In California they are going for much less than that. You can a new XLS for around 20K!

mschmal

sorry, I was refering to XLTs. Who wants an XLS? hehehe good luck wtih your shopping.

chuck1

"The redesigned Ford Explorer, on sale for only three months, is in line for redesigned interior trim panels to make it easier to pull the doors closed.
The reason: In a quest for top safety ratings, the door handle is mounted under the arm rest, near the front of the door. That makes the handle hard to reach, which has auto reviewers and consumers complaining."

I can't believe that a mistake like this would be made on their top-selling model. They have only been building cars for 100 plus years. If you and I made a mistake of this proportion, we would be out of a job!

tidester

They have only been building cars for 100 plus years.

If it's any solace, they weren't making today's models a hundred years ago!

tidester, host

chuck1

In regards to todays models....

Yea, your right. But you would think they would know where the best place for a door handle is!!

tidester

Agreed - one would think that!

tidester, host

nvbanker

I have to agree, Chuck. In fact, the door handles are so quirky, it could cause me to look elsewhere....unless my wife insists on another one.

mschmal

No one ever said "i can't buy this truck with the door handle like that" to me after I explained that there was a 4" thick foam block in the usual spot thus there was no hardware in that part of the door to attach a handle to...

Of course, putting a cup in the arm rest really makes way more sense.

One thing that is even more annoying for me is that Ford choose to make the 6 disc changer optional on the XLT and Eddiebauer...HELLO this is a $30K plus truck! Especially since the 6 disc changer is standard in a $17k Focus SES.

I know why they did this, there is double the markup in options verse standard equipment. But then they should build them all with that optional equipment.

Mark

nvbanker

Yeah, but that's a cooky door handle, you have to admit it. It's wierd....

The CD changer would be another sticky point. It needs to have one for me. OTOH, a woman who works for me has a Mountaineer - and has never used the CD changer in it. Only radio.

marsha7

placing a door handle where it can't be reached???...this is the same Ford Motor Company that, in my 1983 Grand Marquis, MOVED the horn button from the center of the steering wheel to...get this...the TURN SIGNAL STALK...you had to press the signal stalk into the steering column to get the horn to blow...I would not mind if they put it there as an ADDED place the blow the horn, but to remove it from the center and place it on the stalk, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING???...after 75 years (at that time) of making cars, who was the idiot that sat around and said " why don't we move the horn button, and therefore be the ONLY CARMAKER IN THE ENTIRE WORLD that does not have the horn on the wheel...obviously, in panic, doesn't everybody reach for the signal stalk instead of the center of the wheel???...truly, the most ignorant thing I have ever seen...if Ford goes bankrupt, I hope that engineer, if he still works there, gets fired, loses his pension, excluded from Medicare, and has his Social Security application processed by FEMA... :shades:

lateralg

I hope you don't live in a glass house.

marsha7

Are you aware that the Ford HQ in Dearborn is referred to as "the Glass House"???...just thought your comment was ironic...

BTW, to this day, I still wonder what it was that made them sit around and think, "where can we put the horn this year???"

lateralg

I worked for Ford for 28 years, so I'm aware that more than 15 years ago there was an official Company announcemnet to refrain from referring to it as the glass house. It is Ford World Headquarters (WHQ)

nvbanker

Ok then - why DID you guys move the horn button? I tolerated it on my 81 Fairmont, but never liked it was was thrilled to see it moved back where it belonged in my 84 T-Bird.....

daryll44

Come to think of it, we had an '82 Zephyr (Fairmont clone) and it had that goofy horn thing too. But to give Ford SOME credit, 1981/82 was about the time they came up with the keypad on the outer door. That keypad is still the best entry system on the market. Lexus and the high end guys have the no-key thingie but you have to be carrying the credit-card-thingie in your pocket for it to work. The simple keypad is the best. You can lock your keys in the car and not have to be bothered with anything. My suggestion would be a keypad to start the car too! So while the horn on the turn signal was truly a brainfart, sometimes genius does show itself.

bhmr59

A friend leased an '04 Mountaineer, loaded in March '04, for three years with a couple Grand down. He's tired of the ride on anything other than short hauls trips and the 13 MPG.

He's considering the new Hyundai Azera sedan, after having seen and ridden in my '05 Sonata.

Went to the local Mercury/Hyundai dealership and talked with the same salesman who arranged his lease 20 months age and knows he has a chance to sell a new Azera.

Salesman asked how many miles on Mountaineer?...27K. "oh, that's a lot in one year." I can figure your lease buy out if you like. Friend said, "no, that's OK, I know it's between 25 & 26 K." Sales guy says it'll cost you another $6K to turn in the lease now.

So, sales guy is saying that a Mountaineer that listed for over $40K is now worth under $20K after only 27K miles; plus, he'll want full retail + BS dealer fees for a new Azera.

Has the Mountaineer really depreciated that badly or do we just have a case of a super greedy salesman? He already lost a sale to me on the Sonata...I told him he was at least $1K too high, more like $1800. My parents are in Florida, contacted a Hyundai dealer there and he gave me a good price. After flying to FL and driving home to CT including all travel expenses, I still saved about $1500 compared to the "special deal" this guy was going to do.

I guess the bottom line is, has the Mountaineer depreciated that much after 27K miles in 20 months, or is this salesman just too greedy?

marsha7

Officially, Ford World HQ...NOBODY, but nobody ever referred to it like that...Glass House...maybe in management or union meetings FWHQ...in the real world, every Ford worker I ever knew, and many there were, called it Glass House... :shades:

stever

So, what do the workers call the Ford factory with the sod roof?

Steve, Host

marsha7

Uh, ya got me on that one...is this a riddle or a trick question???...OK, it's...choice E...None of the Above???

stever

Just curious; I was thinking that Lateralg might know.

Steve, Host

chuck1

Marsha7 is right on. That post is calling it like you see it! The same goes for the previous redesign of the Taurus (the oval joke). I can't believe a bunch of people sat around and said, "Man this thing looks fantastic! We are going to set the world on fire!On another note, saw a new Fusion on the freeway today, the thing looks Japanese!

daryll44

place "The Grass House".

As to Explorer/Mtr depreciation...your story sounds like it's half true (Explorer MTR and all SUVs have experienced depreciation meltdown) and half dealer greed on the new vehicle. Every time you trade a vehicle there is huge juice, known in the investment world as "friction". Your friend should just keep his Mtr until the end of the lease. Gas prices are easing (at least for now) and there is no way he'll ever recoup even at $3/gallon. At least he leased and knows exactly when he can walk away "for free". Truthfully it sounds more like a case of car boredom than a case of any burning need to get a new vehicle. My MTR is almost 40 months old and rides fine. Surely your friends isn't that bad either. Tell him to focus on making money, not on car boredom (which ALWAYS COSTS money).

nvbanker

Grass House! LOL!! Good one!!!

explorerx4

'glass house' isn't that the 'gm' house now?
i found the door harder to close than open in the '06 explorer. is that what everyone else is refering to?

nvbanker

Well, I'm talking about the open handle on the front of the armrest, inside..... It's goofy. But perhaps I could get used to it.

explorerx4

opening the door, i don't find it too bad. lift up the front of the armrest and push the door open with your elbow or forearm. closing the door, i find more difficult.

nvbanker

Ah, yes, I believe I did as well. It may be the best Explorer yet - I haven't driven one - but style wise - I don't see much if any improvement.

tidester

place "The Grass House"

And two demerits for the first person offering admonishments to people who live in them!

tidester, host

lateralg

AWD V8 Luxury 7-passenger

Just turned over 1,000 miles. More than 250 of this on NASTY dirt/mountain roads. 45-50 MPH over washboard surfaces. Descending & ascending gnarly, twisty, rutted, rocky grades at 5 MPH. Still no rattles. AWD needed at times, and works great.

Nav. guidance voice still sounds like Lilith (Frazer's ex-wife) gargling. Street name spoken way too rapidly.

Location of the Nav. screen above the climate control registers is a subtle but significant safety factor because it's now at the same level as the instruments, and much closer to the line of sight to the road.

Getting adjusted to inside door handles, but still not happy with them.

Tongue-depressor fix for overdrive button location is essential if a person uses it much. I use it often for engine braking on highway downgrades.

Another wart is the lack of a "Cancel" button for the speed control. The only way to disengage it without losing the speed setting is to tap the brake pedal ... and it requires a firm tap. My '03 Lincoln LS had "Cancel", as well as my '06 Mazda 3. It should be easy to make the "Resume" button dual-mode.

Getting compliments on the styling from pre-teen boys, and young-married folks. My color is Cashmere ... VERY dusty at the moment.

mschmal

This post is completely wrong and the person who wrote it does not understand leasing.

When you turn in a lease EARLY, you are still responsible for ALL OUTSTANDING LEASE PAYMENTS.

In rare instances, the trade in value the lease vehicle will exceed the buyout on the lease. The buy out equals ALL REMAINING PAYMENTS and the RESIDUAL VALUE or PURCHASE OPTION of the lease. This only happens if the vehicle mileage is a lot lower than typical.

Most leases are calculated at 12k miles per year. Obviously, for your friend to be at 27k in 20 months, he is SUBSTANTIALLY OVER MILES which really accelerates the depreciation.

In regard to the price on the Sonata please keep in mind that ultimately it is the person who buys a car that determines its price. The price will reflect supply and demand. FL is a different market from CT with maybe more supply and/or less demand, hence the different price.

Not all auto sales people are not out to screw people over, they are trying to make a living too. Must auto sales people are trying to form a relationship that will lead to repeat business.

Mark

gorathlives

My wife are expecting our third child in March and need to go from our current Jeep Liberty to a larger vehicle. Other kids are 5 and 2 1/2. We are anti-minivan, and really like the looks and ride of the Mountaineer, and its a great value with current sales, but a little concerned about practicality. Love to hear from anyone out there who has a Mountaineer with more than two kids on the younger side. Thanks.

chuck1

You have very right to be concerned about practicality. With the 3rd seat up in the Mountaineer, there is no room for things you need for little ones. And believe me, you would want one of the little ones (probably the 5 year old) to sit in the 3rd seat, especially on long trips. Then there is no-room for luggage for those long trips. You or your spouse CANNOT access the 2nd and third rows without stopping the vehicle. You can in a mini-van. If you still want a SUV, you need to take a look at something larger, like an Expedition or Suburban. However, IMHO you be much better off in a Toyota or Honda mini van. And I won't even get into resale value.....
Then there is gas mpg to be concerned with. This of course is not to mention that this is FORDS FIRST YEAR of a new redesign. Their reputation is less than stellar on new models. I came out of an '02 Explorer with rear-end and issues with the transmission solenoid. I traded it in with 46K on the clock for a 4Runner. Let us know what you decide. Will practicality be more important than "appearance?"

nvbanker

Chuck is a known cynic here. His experience wasn't so great. We have had 1 Explorer and 4 Mountaineers, currently have an 04 Premier V8-AWD. What Chuck said about luggage room is correct generally. At least on the long trips, you may need a luggage carrier on the roof, and that will eat up your mileage. An Expedition would do better. As for Ford's new vehicle reputation - I disagree, and cite the introduction of the newest F-150,F-250 series - a flawless introduction. One can have a lemon anywhere. The new Mountaineer carries over their engines, and running gear, so I wouldn't be afraid of one.

Toyota has great products as well, but they are different in their characteristics, and less evolved in design - more old school.

marsha7

Hey, I just have the greatest admiration for you for traipsing around this long with 2 kids and 2 parents in a LIBERTY... :shades:

chuck1

"Chuck is a known cynic here. His experience wasn't so great."

NV, I felt I gave an accurate appraisal of the cons of the Explorer which you agreed with. Me being a cynic, I feel is not a necessary part of this conversation.

ANT14

"This of course is not to mention that this is FORDS FIRST YEAR of a new redesign. Their reputation is less than stellar on new models."

The Ford 500/Mercury Montego, both being newly engineered models, were built at a newly remodeled Ford plant, and have experienced no first year issues. If anything, it was one of the top 3 vehicles rated by JDPower's for initial quality...behind the Grand Marquis, and Buick LaSabre...didn't see the newly designed Avalon on that list heh...

The Freestyle itself, built in the same factory as the above mentioned vehicles, also had no issues come up on it's first year build.

The Mustang, another newly engineered vehicle was also built in a newly remodeled plant, was rated in the top 3 in initial quality by JDPower's with no first year issues.

The newly re-engineered Ford F-150, had it's introduction, with no recalls in it's first year.

The re-engineered Super Duty F-series, also debuted with no issues.

Etc.etc.