Toyota Matrix

rljaco

Hi, we are trying to buy a 4 wheel drive xr but are finding only 2 wheel drives to test drive. Supposedly the weight is the same. Does anybody know if the ride (suspension, power etc.) is pretty much the same with the 4 wheel drive? Thanks.

lngtonge18

For those who are looking hard for this combo, I found one. It's a cosmic blue XRS 6 speed with nav system and side door decals. Sticker was 21k. It's located in Tallahassee, Florida at Team Toyota. They had 3 other Matrix, all Ink Blue with automatic, 1 was base and the other 2 were XR. The salesman was a pleasure to talk to. He didn't pressure me and was appreciative of my knowledge of the car. He said he did have a waiting list for special options and that Toyota was difficult to deal with as far as orders go. I loved the design of the Matrix and couldn't believe how comfortable, easy to get in and out of, and roomy the rear seat was. Legroom for short drivers is a bit low. You have to sit relatively close to the dashboard to reach the console-mounted gear shift, which put my legs within banging distance of the lower dash. This was the only disappointing thing I could find, though I didn't drive it as I wanted to drive an XR with a 5 speed. So far, the Matrix is in the front running for my next car.

civicw

I think Toyota has made it a HUGE hassle to get the vehicle one wants by constantly changing the combination of options that may be available on a particular trim level. Not only that, even within the same state the combinations can be different. This is all done under the guise of being flexible to meet customer needs. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that by having hundreds of possible combinations of options on a low volume (6K/month) vehicle the chances that one can find the right vehicle on the dealer lot are nil. IMHO, Toyota's real motive is to increase margins by packing popular vehicles with high profit accessories and frills, rather than providing sensible options like side airbags and ABS.

I like the way Honda packages their options in 2-3 trim levels. At least you know up front what you can or cannot DEFINITELY get. And they leave it to the dealer to put on the accessories that the customer wants.

Incidentally, I think the Matrix is a terrific car, but am disappointed that I can't get the clean look of the base model on the XR, because all XRs come with the busy look of the "optional" spoilers and skirts.

phankane

After every time I fill the gas tank, I have a big grin,now my face is flatter than ever.

nhepker1

Wow, you can't find any AWD models? I'm kinda annoyed because all my local dealer has is 2 XRS and 4 XR AWD. They've only had 2 FWD XR's and they both were loaded with options I didn't want. What kinda of allocation is everyone else seeing?

scott31

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the XRS is NOT worth the $1200 premium over the XR.

izfuney

>>I've said it before and I'll say it again, the >>XRS is NOT worth the $1200 premium over the XR.

well u r entitled to your opinion . but its like comparing Apples to Oranges. The XRS is awhole different ball game with the manual 6 speed.

the fact that u can get the Celica GTS drive train with the best brakes in the business for a paltry 1200 !!!! over a base corolla drive train is a no brainer for those that want a Matrix with zip.( or like me who wanted a Celica GTS with functionaity )

As to those who quibble over the Second set of cams at 6k - i have only one piece of advice - drive one . there is hardly a sweeter rev happy engine then this one. its a blast to hit lift and keep it there through a shift
plus the brakes are simply great . gives u confidence to push this car/xuv/wagon.

yes there is a price to pay (albiet a very modest one if one considers what a Celica GTS costs over aCelica GT )

in fuel costs (10 cents a gallon more at the most for premium ) + all the extra fuel u r going to burn by driving it in Lift

plus the $2-3k premium for a XRS over XR ( keeping all the extra Knick Knacks Toyota tries to unload on u ).

In the end however its only u and your pocketbook that need to make the choice.I made mine and am the proud owner of a XRS .

xr_matrix

I agree, the XR vs XRS decision is certainly a personal choice. I can't stop thinking about Motor Trend's quote "opt for the 180hp engine or you will be stuck in the slow lane...". Granted these are performance car people and I am sure the 130hp still allows for plenty of left lane travel!

I seem to be getting conflicting reports on the upgrade, because I mean lets face it...we as a group know a lot more about this vehicle than the salespeople! Because our American cousins get a lot more option choices including the moonroof (grrr...I want that!), I guess this is more for you Canadians...Can you confirm we get the following additional features with the XRS over the XR?

>> 180hp vs 130hp
>> 6sp vs 5spd
>> Full ground effects pkg
>> Fog lights
>> 17" alloy wheels vs 16" alloy wheels
>> 6 speaker CD with Cassette VS 4 speaker CD (no cassette)
>> Security System (brochure says anti-theft?!)
>> 4 wheel disc brakes with ABS VS disc/drum no ABS
>> 115 volt recpt on the dash
>> Leather wrapped shift knob

Am I missing anything?

Is the Anti-Theft system a true remote style complete with chirp and lights flash? How does it work?

petl

Sounds right. However, the XR (Auto tranny only) and XRS have a leather wrapped shift knob and both have a leather wrapped steering wheel. Not sure how the Anti-Theft system works. Good Luck again with your decision.

alexiskai

Rumor in some corners has it that Toyota and GM are developing a supercharger for the 130 HP engine that would give it 180 HP and a more linear powerband and greater torque than the current 180 HP option. (A supercharger essentially acts like a jet turbine, using engine power to compress incoming air to maximize subsequent engine power.) This would probably be available both as an option and in aftermarket, costing a couple grand at least. Given Toyota's admitted intent to position the Matrix as their premiere customizable vehicle, I give this one a 70% chance, and I have few regrets about going with my base model engine until a supercharger arrives.

ed_scott0013

I wouldn't be surprised if Toyota's TRD division was working on something like that. I once visited the TRD (USA) Website and they had a little pop-up about Matrix parts. The pop-up is now gone, but there are no mentions about it in the online catalog. I guess "See your dealer for details" applies here...

Just for reference purposes, TRD does have superchargers for V6 engines (trucks and some cars) but I'm not sure if they will develop one for an inline 4.

Annex to original message: The pop-up image can be found here, but it does not have any supercharger related stuff...

rljaco

Alexiskai and others, have you found the power of the base engine adequate for freeway driving; does anyone have experience with adequacy of the base engine specifically in the XR with AWD.

alexiskai

They haven't actually delivered the car yet for me, so no idea. However, in doing my research, I read virtually every review published on the car, and critical consensus seemed to be that the base engine w/2-wheel drive was OK for normal use. Those who complained were (a) driving the AWD version and (b) not understanding why a $17,000 car did not come with a 2.0L 240-HP engine. They also seemed to think that the AWD had been included to put some extra Gs on the turns rather than to negotiate icy roads.

The fact is that Toyota brought this on itself by using the word "sporty" to describe the car and distributing AWD models to critics, which has caused it to come under fire from people to whom sporty means high performance. The same thing happened to DaimlerChrysler; reviews of the PT Cruiser uniformly dissed its engine, which hasn't stopped Chrysler selling out their production capacity.

My take on it is that the car is probably sporty _relative_ to the econoboxes that a lot of Toyota's target audience was previously using. When a company with Toyota's reputation for forethought bets its future on courting young buyers with models like the Matrix, I would hope they'd have accounted for things like highway driving.

southpaw1

Don't forget, the 17 inch alloy wheels and the intrusion systems are options on the XRS, not standard.

rpgroppe

alexiskai,

I agree with you about the reviews, they have their place in evaluating any vehicle, but the folks who review cars for a living take two seat sports cars as the ideal and judge all cars as compared to that standard.

According to Road & Track, Car & Driver etc. just about everything that can't cruise the autobahn at 120 MPH is underpowered. Kind of a shame because there are some consumer cars out there that REALLY ARE underpowered, but you can't tell those cars from the ones that just don't measure up to a Porsche by reading the reviews.

For what it's worth, I have a base Matrix with Auto, I haven't had anything heavier than my wife on board, but I have had to keep a close eye on the speedometer to make sure I haven't gone over 55 during the break in period (500 miles and counting).

I live in NYC and a 65-70 MPH cruising speed is all I need, I don't think the Matrix will have any trouble delivering that.

petl

We should be receiving our XR 4WD within the next couple weeks (vehicle completion date is April 23, 2002). Trading our 1998 RAV (auto) for the Matrix. We were impressed with the ride and "feel" quality of the Matrix (auto) during a test run. It seemed peppier than the RAV. Ironically, the Matrix we purchased has approx. the same HP and weight as our 1994 Camry. The Camry zips along pretty darn good. Can't really compare it to the RAV. The RAV's system delivers power to all 4 wheels all the time. Will report back after delivery.

How much power do drivers actually need? I guess it gets them a fraction of second quicker to the next stop sign or red light. Oh I forgot they need that merging and passing power. Never had a problem in these respects with the Camry or the RAV (the RAV is somewhat noisy). Where is the power thing going to end? Giving additional power to some individuals is a scary thought.

One positive article stated that the 4WD auto felt zippy and responsive. Another reviewer said that the automatic transmission (with lock-up converter) was well mated to AWD system. It made the most out of the available power. Some have mentioned that the vehicle is noisy while others have said that it is quiet. It seemed fairly quiet in our test drive. I guess we will soon find out.

samsvr6

I own a Vibe not a Matrix but the engine is the same. I have read the owner's manual. It never mentioned not to go over 55mph. The manual stated that for the first 1000 miles, vary the speed, not to tow, and not to redline when the engine is cold. Why won't you go over 55mph. Did thay mention it in the Matrix's owner manual?

As for the power of the Vibe/Matrix, I have the base and automatic and I find the power adequate. Important thing is to know your expectation. Remember, this is only a 1.8L 4 banger, don't expect it to win any drag races. If you are looking for power, then you should shop for something else. Vibe/Matrix gives a good blend of good handling, adequate power and decent utility. If you have this expectation then, you won't be disappointed.
I have got 160 miles after 2 days of ownership and I can cruise 85mph all day long with no problem in my Vibe. At this speed the Vibe is extremely stable and quiet. Comparable to my other car which is a VW Passat. Of course, the Passat wins hand down in terms of power. After all, it has the 170hp turbo.

Sam

rpgroppe

The Matrix manual does say not to go over 55 for the first 1,000 miles, I'm trying to go along with that.

I wonder if Toyota is a bit gun-shy after all the bad publicity over the "sludge" issue?

petl

I've bought 7 new Toyotas since 1984. They have always recommended not going over 55 for the first 1,000 miles (1,600 kms.) They also recommend that you fluctuate speeds in order to properly break in the motor. This, according to Toyota, will help your vehicle last longer and promote better gas mileage. Maybe - maybe not. I figure why take a chance... Short term pain for long term gain (possibly).

xr_matrix

RE: Don't forget, the 17 inch alloy wheels and the intrusion systems are options on the XRS, not standard.

>>We Canadians have it a little different, both 17" wheels and intrusion systems are standard on the XRS. We cannot get 16" wheels on the XRS, side air bags, Nav system, etc. We are pigeon holed into Base, Base with pkg B, XR and XRS. Our only options are color and whether or not we want an automatic or standard...pretty different huh? (geez and to think we canadians are building the damm car for the americans ;-) )

samsvr6

I have read the Vibe owner's manual again and again. Never did it say to drive under 55 mph. I wonder why. Both Vibe and Matrix share the same engine. Furthermore, if I drive 55mph on I-75 (90% of my commuting) in Michigan, I will be killed for driving too slow. Even semis do 70mph here.

Sam

southpaw1

I'm still in my break in period but I am not keeping the car under 55 mph. Here in the DC area it is too dangerous to drive that slowly on the beltway. I find it hard to believe it will make that much difference in the long run but it doesn't matter because I did not feel safe with the cars running up behind me and tailgating.

barresa62

say to keep the speeds kind of low but to vary them a bit for the first "x" number of miles. I've never heard something like only doing 55mph for the first 1000 miles before. Heck...that's not even the freeway speed limit around congested Seattle (60mph). I, too, would think that would be dangerous to go that slow. My WRX had a break-in procedure to keep it below 4000 rpms for the first 1000 miles and to vary the mph within this restriction.

Stephen

samsvr6

Here is my opinion on break-in procedure. We should be watching the RPM rather than MPH during break-in. Here is the reason:
You can be going 55mph but reving at the redline if you are in 2nd gear. Or, you could be going at 70mph and reving at 2500rpm if you are in top gear. Which one is more straining on the engine? Of course, the former.
This is why the WRX manual states not to exceed 4000rpm during break in.

Sam

filod

i personally agree that rpm is a better way to follow than speed. avoid over reving and vary at various rpm. that is how i always interpret the breakin procedure...

petl

Toyota is pretty specific with the break-in procedures and reasons why. (I get the feeling that most don't even read the owners manual.) How you interpret them is up to the individual. I am not a "techy" type person so I won't comment on the observations concerning the RPMs. There may or not be a connection. If you do not wish to or feel you cannot follow the recommended break-in procedures is a personal decision. To the best of my recollection, they are recommended to maximize gas mileage and also contribute to longer engine life. It's your vehicle; it's your choice.

samsvr6

I agree that we should follow recommended break in procedures. It is all spelled out in the owner's manual. What I don't understand is why Pontiac and Toyota differs in their break in procedure when both uses the same engine. Which one is more credible? Some would say Toyota because it is their engine. However, there is no way I can follow Toyota's recommendation of going below 55 mph for the first 1000 miles. I will be killed going this slow on a freeway.
Again, the Vibe break in procedure never mention not to exceed 55 mph.

Sam

barresa62

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that going 55mph in 2nd gear is over revving = BAD and 65mph in an OD gear where rpms would be low is OK. I suggest those that blindly follow the manual to educate themselves. Even a stout, reliable Toyota deserves a knowledgeable owner...jeesh!

Stephen

raven18

imo break in procedures are a good thing to follow, however, you should use common sense along with this. If you are freeway driving, by all means, keep up with the flow of traffic. Break in procedures are a suggestion to you by the automaker, and when at all possible, use these guidelines. The funny thing about it, is whenever i test drove a matrix, the salesman told me to take it out on the freeway, and see how it excellerates. So, if you buy one from a dealership, are you buying damaged goods? I don't think so. As far as why toyota and gm have different break in procedures-they probably have different philosophies on how it should be done. Maybe toyota wants their cars to last longer, for reputation, and maybe gm doesn't, perhaps they want you to have to buy another car after 100k? But it is imo probably more just a rule of thumb to follow the break in procedures. If i buy a matrix, i'll follow the break in procedures to the best extent that I can, without endangering myself.

joelis

Obviously you don't want to redline the engine during the break in period. BUT, you also need to consider the rest of the drivetrain as well.

You could have it in 6th gear on the freeway doing 3500 rpms, in this case you are not going to hurt the engine, but at 80 mph, what about the tranny, axles, differential, etc. They also need a break in period.

Now, having said all that, and having to break in many new vehicles in my time, my best advice is to just use common sense, and don't be anal about it. First, I think 500 miles is plenty for a break in period. Second, try to stay under halfway of your redline in any gear during this time. Third, posted freeway speeds are NOT going to hurt your new car, just don't go over them too much during the first 500. And yes, 55 mph is a joke I think most manufacturers play to see how many people actually read the manuals.

alexiskai

Found a general auto break-in procedure on the web at http://www.driversedge.com/breakin.htm

This is a little more involved than "<55 for 1,000 miles" and seems to be flexible as well.

johnclineii

I like to get very specific option mixes on my cars. My last several cars have all been dealer exchanges. The dealer sends a driver to the dealership where my desired vehicle is and gets it, taking one of my dealer's cars to exchange. Do you think for one minute that the driver observes the break-in 'rules?'

My cars have included a Nissan Maxima SE, a Chrysler Concorde, Pontiac Grand Prix GTP, Olds LSS and Chevrolet Impala LS. I keep cars til about 70-80 thousand miles, generally. And when I got these cars, they each had 300-600 miles on the clock, miles the dealer's driver had put on them when s/he went to get the car, that I am SURE were not driven like the break in says. Problems with any of these cars? None, except the Chrysler, which was problem child from day one. And since the problems with it were with the rear suspension, I doubt the break in contributed.

I also once owned a Toyota Corolla disguised as a Chevy Nova but it came with about 30,000 miles on it! My mother currently has a Prizm playing the same masquerade, bought new with 4 miles on it and now having about 65,000, but I can't tell you the effect of break in procedures on it, as my mother drives gently and in observance of the break in rules all the time!

Use common sense, don't be stupid, and don't worry yourself silly. At the end of the day, it's just a car. I think GM realises that, and so do most of its owners. Toyota owners as a rule seem to be more precise people than GM owners in general, may expect more rigid rules, and once having followed them, OH WHAT A FEELING (to drive a Toyota---1970's and 1980's ad campaign)!

subzero206

they dont just make them for the v6's but also the 4 cylinder 2.4(i think) and 2.7 in the tacoma.

rfruth

I've read http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_news.shtml there will be a hybrid Matrix next year, yea ! really like the Matrix would love a hybrid version !

izfuney

On the same note : it does mention that the revs should be kept within 2 - 4k for normal driving plus the 55 speed limit

. Plus it does include "recommended" shift points for the manual for "longevity" of the drive train.

I agree with the fact that driving less then 60 -65 on ahighway is a safety concern .And pretty much if u keep the car within the rev range and around less then 70 u r aok .


Caveat emptor : After the car is broken in **however** if u do drive with the "recommended" shift points even the old ladies in GEO metro's
will be giving u the finger

peace

echowrangler

The little light sensor located in the left corner of the windshield has started to act a little weird - yesterday I drove under a cloud, bright sunshine all around, but it turned the lights on full brightness, and turned down the instrument lights, which made them difficult to see.

This morning I headed to work, and the lights came on and stayed on full brightness - this is at 8 am, full sun, not a cloud in the sky. They stayed on bright (and instruments dim) until sunlight directly struck the sensor. Then they went normal, but only until I turned, and the sensor was shaded by the A pillar, and the headlights came on bright again. Then after I turned again so that full sun struck the sensor and stayed on it for a while, the headlights went and remained dim.

Anyone else having similar problems? Sounds like my barely month-old Matrix might be heading to the shop.

strager

I'm assuming that people from TMS read this board occasionally. If so, here is a request from some of your target young customers.

Please make those side skirts and ground effects on the Matrix TRULY optional. I know at least 2 young co-workers who really liked the Matrix, but were turned off because the mid-level Matrix XR is ONLY available with ground effects. The best looking Matrix (the base model) doesn't have those ground effects, but unfortunately is not available with several basic features such as power mirrors, seat height adjuster, rear window wiper/washer, etc. So the only way to get a reasonably equipped Matrix is to buy the XR model, and then pay a body shop to take off those busy looking ground effects. DUH!

I think Toyota is trying too hard to appeal to younger people, by assuming that EVERY young buyer will want to customize their Matrix with those ground effects. Why is Toyota waiting for their new brand for young people, Scion, to stop this absurd options game? They should stop this game with the Matrix!

samsvr6

Or get a Vibe if you cannot stand the looks of the Matrix side skirts and ground effects.

johnclineii

By the way, part of the appeal of CUSTOMIZING a Honda Civic or such is that they do NOT come from the factory that way and every Josh, Jennifer and Heather doesn't have one that looks like every Ian's.

Somehow, Toyota didn't get that. They are running off the youth market (not to mention you don't have to pay as much aftermarket for this groundeffects stuff if you DO want it and you get exactly what you want). They are running off the older market (I don't want to drive something with all that stuff on it). Once all the got to have it now people have bought, we will see what happens.

By the way, Vibe is hardly pure in this regard. Want to NOT have that contrasting gray plastic cladding? GM has the nerve to charge $500 MORE to paint it the same as the rest of the car.

I thought Bob Lutz over at GM was going to do away with extra cost items that don't thrill and delight the customer! (One mis-step, poorly handled PR wise...was announcing that ABS was becoming optional...you should have seen the back-pedaling (bad pun) on that one!)

edpfs

I'm talking about the small red rectangle that displays odometer and outside temp. I find it is not highly visible. I have the most trouble with it during bright days when I'm wearing polarized shades. My wife has complained about it as well.

A small thing - just wondered if anyone else had noticed it.

And the radio is different than my last 3 Toyotas, so it is taking me a bit longer to get used to it.

Over the weekend I was stopped about 1 car-lngth behind an SUV, waiting to merge into traffic leaving a gas station. Since it looked like it would be a few seconds, I was closely looking at the instruments - checking their visibility. All of a sudden in my peripheral vision I see the SUV quickly backing up towards me. Apparently he was fed up with waiting, and was backing up to turn and exit through the other side of the station. Apparently he had failed to check to see if anyone was behind him before slamming into reverse. I leaned on the horn (first time I heard it!) and he shuddered to a stop less than a foot from my car. Man, nothing like a simple trip to the gas station to elevate the old heart rate! And the jerk turned around and gestured at me as tho I had done something wrong!

Oh yeah - second tank of gas, 26 mpg. Pretty much all crappy in-town errand running. Up around 600 miles, and it has only been on the expressway once. So I have had no difficulty keeping it below 55!

Hauled my clubs in it Sat. Really nice popping the rear glass. That sure is a stubby little wiper on the back, ain't it?

Fun car. Still haven't seen another one on the road!

dogtrainer

I'm happy with the power on my XR fwd auto. I'm out of the breakin period, and have had no trouble entering an expressway. It is a little noisy when pushed hard to accelerate quickly, but after all, it's not a Mercedes or Lexus, and it quiets down when the overdrive kicks in. I find I have to check speed to keep from doing 80 in 4th gear.

lopers

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I happen to like the gray body cladding on the Vibe. How many cars with body-colored bumpers have you seen in parking lots that have a significant portion of the paint on the lower body panels flaking off? I'd rather have the plastic. Long live body cladding!

rpgroppe

The problem is not with brightness, it's with the polarized sunglasses. The nature of the Matrix display (a couple of other cars use the same technology) conflicts with polarized sunglasses and will make it difficult to impossible for you to see the gages.

I'm no scientist, but I know that polarized sunglasses work by filtering out light rays from a certain direction. Somehow that is a problem with the Matrix type display. The "problem' was mentioned in several reviews I have read.

petl

Not many. However, I think the whole vehicle should be made out of gladding. It's the only sure way to protect a vehicle.

raven18

I owned a '97 rav4-it had the gray lowerbody gray cladding on it, it was somewhat a new thing, I thought it was a pretty cool idea, it is true that your bumpers will be somewhat more protected, but I found certain problems with it as well-if you wax your vehicle, with any type wax or go through a carwash that has wax in the system, you may eventually notice that your gray cladding is beginning to dull and also stones will still pit the plastic. IMO, I think that the cladding is old school and paint looks so much cleaner, but to each their own. The chevy avalanche is a prime example of how bad cladding looks on a vehicle, i've seen a few with painted cladding, and IMO it makes the avalanche look 100% better, but hey, it's your vehicle, and if you like the gray cladding that's what's important.

microrepair

Yes. I have a difficult time reading the info in that little light red rectangle when in daylight. I don't know what Toyota designers were thinking of when they made that little patch so different from the rest of the instruments. The others are easy to read. Problem with the little patch is the lack of contrast and/or the thin lettering of the words.

We also have about 600 miles on ours and are about 1/3 into the third tank of gas. But of course I have no idea if the dealer really topped off the tank when we picked it up.

Others have been talking about side skirts and ground effects. I too have the XR and noticed the side skirts. But what are the ground effects add-ons? I need to understand that because I just ordered a trailer hitch and they asked if my Matrix had the ground effects. I stopped at my dealers and compared mine to the base Matrix and to the XRS and my XR's rear end looks like the base model. No rear skirts like on the XRS. Can someone clarify so I can call the hitch installer ASAP if necessary. Thanks........

raven18

the ground effects on the xr are an option. The front and rear underbody spoilers are part of the sport plus package, which also includes fog lamps.It sounds like you don't have that package, the xr still has side skirts though. Hope that helps- I would check on towing capacity for the xr also, if I were you. Also you might want to wait until break in period is over before you tow anything. Good luck.

leafguy2727

Talked to a friend who works at pontiac dealer. He advised they got a notice indicating any battery changes required on the vibe will take a gm one not a toyota one. It will be interesting to see what other notices come along and what other replacement parts would get gm instead of toyota.

lc9063

Does anyone have an XRS with Auto? Is the difference in cost worth it versus an XR with Auto? (Yes, I couldnt drive stick if my life depended on it.) I would be grateful if anyone can give me RPMs at different speeds for both (i.e. 50,60,70 MPH).

vkwheels

When do you get your new car? Haven't heard much from you lately, was just wondering.