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I printed a copy of the FAQ's and brought it with me to the dealership. They said they didn't know they weren't allowed to charge a document fee so I gave them a copy of the print out and they sent me a refund check. Of course it was only a $45.00 fee and I told them I didn't care about it, but I also didn't want them getting dinged by Ford.
I hope this helps, but I can cut/paste and e-mail you a copy if needed.
Jackie
I've noticed a couple of "problems" driving it this first week - trouble shifting between 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd...any one have any idea of what might be going on?
Secondly, it appears as if the antenna is too tall for parking lots here in SF with it hitting against the ceiling = worrisome!
And thirdly, I have to admit that this is the WORST radio that I have ever had in a car ( and if this is the upgrade, I would hate to see the basic model = all static!). I expected better from Landrover, as our other car is an Audi with a Bose system ( which was just a couple of hundred $$$ more) hmmmmm.........
I got my xplan through the shareholder services at ford and can't log on to the web page of partner recognition which I assume would have similar information.
Any help would be appreciated?
Going to pick up the owners manual today. Hopefully will inform me how to set my clock on the radio!
Have had a great week with the car so far. No trouble noted with shifting of the gears- in fact, surprisingly smooth. I normally drive manual and have not particularly liked automatics in the past. Looking forward to exploring this weekend!
There is something on the main Ford website about X plan and the REACH program.
http://www.ford.com/en/support/faq/reachBuyingProgram.htm#17
That site clearly states that no document fee can be charged.
Otherwise, you can call 1-877-XPLAN-00 for more information. They should be able to send you something detailing the requirements of the plan. If nothing else, let them know that your dealership charged you a document fee which is not allowed under the X plan.
Ford doesn't like it when their dealerships mess around with the plan rules :-)
The only website I can access the information is:
http://www.fordpartner.com/index.asp
which requires a partnership code.
I hope this has been of some help to you. Let me know if there is something specific you want me to find.
Jackie
I also have a quirky thing going on with my HDC which they still haven't figured out yet. The heated windshield has been great! The car has some quirky euro things but the more I drive it, the more I love it.
I heard from a friend that the chassis of Freelander is the same as CRV. Is this true?
Thanks for any info.
WP.
Adventure Kit
Black wrap-around brush bar, black side protection rails, full-length roof rails with cross bars and rear lamp guards.
Edge Kit
Black protection bar with stainless steel inserts, twin lamp pods(auxiliary fog and driving lamps), full-length roof rails with cross bars and bodyside rubbing strips.
San Francisco Kit
Polished stainless steel A- frame brush bar, stainless steal side protection rails and full-length roof rails and cross bars.
Cheers, John
Having access to the opinions to several ex-camel trophy drivers, and having driven the vehicle off-road myself, I can assure everyone the Freelander is more than a CRV wannabe. Try it yourself, it will surprise you.
What size are the lug nuts or thread size?
and where can I get them?
Stan
Countsmacula1; I admit I'll haul more groceries than anything but I also drive a much higher hp sport type sedan and I am really amazed how (in sport mode) this thing moves. The transmission is smooth and peppy. As tincup said...you might be surprised.
As for cargo space, I have more than enough room. The seats fold much easier than other SUV's making loading and unloading a breeze. During Christmas with all the mailing and receiving, I loaded my FL to the max and was amazed at how much fit and how easy it was.
I don't care what anyone says about low range and the FL not being a true off roader, I will disagree with that opinion every time. I may not run the Rubicon but I live on 10 acres with hills, creeks, gophers, bridges, mud and ice. So far, the FL has sailed through everything without a problem.
Jackie
1st Place: Freelander
2nd Place: Saturn VUE
3rd Place: Jeep Liberty
4th Place: Nissan XTerra
Freelander-front and rear seats very comfortable. I am 6'3" tall. Everyone enjoyed the crab like pincers of the rear armrest cupholders. Fit and finish was very nice. One thing I look for is a place to rest my right foot when cruise is engaged. Freelander gave plenty of room.
VUE-seats were comfortable but could be better. Too much plastic on door panels, gave cheap impression. Large space in rear. Nice folding seats. Good room for right foot for cruise control driving.
Liberty-seats uncomfortable. No room for right foot for cruise control driving. Nice and tall. Interior looks were o.k. Good ground clearance.
XTerra-front seat o.k. Rear seat terrible. You have to disassemble rear seat bottom to fold the seat down. No right front foot room for cruise control driving. Good ground clearance. Super charger will probably toast the engine in the long run.
When you get any of these vehicles similarly equipped, their prices are about the same.
P.S. Friend has Honda CRV and it is puny, gutless, weak, made light and flimsy. If it wasn't a Honda you couldn't outsell Huyndae! Ford Escape is not too bad.
Any opinions on how Landrover treats their customer? Saturn is probably impossible to beat. I wish GM would leave Saturn alone.
There have only been two downsides for me with my Land Rover. One is that they don't have loaner cars and their service department is not open on weekends, so if your car needs work, you have to make other arrangements. Not too bad if there was a dealership in practically every city like some, but for me it's an hour and a half drive each way.
The second is the gas cap. I don't like that I have to hold the darn thing while filling up. If LR is going to make any future changes, I would suggest that they have a place to hold the gas cap.
Other than that, the car and overall experience has been wonderful. By far the best and easiest car buying I have ever done. Land Rover has won a lifetime customer in me.
Jackie
Besides this, we love it. It performed very well on snow covered mountain roads on a ski trip last weekend. I even got to check out the HDC feature... very handy when you need it.
John
This information is located on a particular website which list various businesses that have gone, or may go under. Due to Edmunds.com terms of service, and profanity in the website address I am unable to list the website address here.
Thanks
Don't sweat it. :-)
There you will find the news.
- 449 of 482: My FL seems to shifting a little rough going from 2nd to 3rd. All the other shifts are very smooth. Anyone else experiencing this?
- #453 of 482: trouble shifting between 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd...any one have any idea of what might be going on?
- #474 of 482: I've noticed recently on my wife's FL that the gear change from 2nd to 3rd is a little rough, definitely not as smooth as the others. Anybody else notice this?
Some comments I heard were: "you could put duct tape over the logo and write Suzuki on the hood with a magic marker and people would believe it." "looks like Daewoo and the Ford Escape had an illegitamate child."
Anybody else here this?
Unfortunately the folks in Detroit don't have enough respect to refrain from monkeying with and causing damage to a vehicle they don't own. That is their fault not Land Rover's.
If you want a Suzuki on your hood go right ahead, but don't feel bad because you can't afford the Freelander and feel the need to attempt to create doubt in otherwise satisfied Land Rover owners' minds.
#235 in "Jeep Liberty problems" ...by colorado1974
....I am a Jeep salesman who just bought a Liberty for my wife.
I don't blame him, Liberty is an excellent vehicle in its own way. FL is good in its own way. I think its more upto the buyer to decide what exactly he wants in his vehicle which should sway him towards one vehicle or other. Liberty is more practical, less expensive, gives more off-road confidence but FL is more prestige, status, style and smooth engine.
Judging a vehicle at an Auto Show is not really fair. During the Chicago 2001 Auto Show, the Land Rover folks had the Freelander locked,so I could not sit inside,only look through the windows. The condition of other vehicles on display were kinda shabby.Some had shifter knobs and other control knobs missing from people stealing them or dealers removing them to prevent theft!
P.S. thanks for the tip on the auto driver side window. I was pressing the button too long.
Ford owns Land Rover. However, Land Rover is a seperate division inside Ford as well as Jaguar and Astin Martin. Land Rovers have been built in England since 1948. It is a very european vehicle and has not even a hint of ford design. I have never heard anybody say " I wish ford would have done a better job on the jaguar or i wish ford would have put a bigger engine in that $255,000 Aston Martin. If you don't like the design blame Land Rover, not ford. To clear another ludicrous statement up. By no means will Land Rover use the ford explorer frame in It's next design. Land Rover is world renound for its rigid vehicles whether it is a unibody (Freelander , 03 Range Rover) or a body on frame ( Discovery, 02 Range Rover) Land Rover frames are twice the size of most cars. It is two C- section frames seam welded together. If you want to talk about shared technology get you facts straight. Honda has a similar unibody construction to freelander. They were designed together, but the Freelander frame is much more rigid. The engine in the new Range Rover will be from the BMW X5 with a few off road improvements. Most of the electronics in the car have been designed with the help of BMW. Lastly, to the jeep salesman. That wasn't very bussiness like bashing the Freelander like you did, especialy when you just put your wife in one of the most dangerous SUV's available. 40% chance of rollover in any single collision, crash tests were only marginal. That's one step above Poor. To respond to cubeman's question about parts. I would stay in regular contact with you parts department. Most of the kits for Freelander should be coming soon.
I am in the market for a small to mid sized SUV that handles good on pavement but has the off-road capabilities I need for weekend excusions.
I'd like opinions from those actually OWN a Freelander.
I think the Xterra might be a better deal w/ more capapbilities for the price, but I'm concerned about it's on-pavement handling.
However, the Freelander is "new" for the US & thus "unproven" here. But it seems to have the "on pavement" handling/less roll-over risk that I'm looking for.
Please don't suggest a Ford since they are my arch-enemy in life (for reasons too numerous to count). I am having a hard enough time reconciling that Ford owns LR.
I do know what I am talking about since P.A.G. is a client of my firms. The Explorer-based Discovery is NOT a done deal, as I said above, but it IS in strong consideration.
Also, since you know so much, you should know already that JUST because the Explorer platform is used as a base does NOT mean that LR won't tweak it and strengthen it for thier own use.
Luckily, P.A.G. has seen from the Jag X-type mess that having too much Ford blood under a prestigious nameplate CAN and WILL effect sales and image. It is for this reason that I would expect that the Explorer-based Discovery would vary a great deal from the Explorer even if it does use the basic chassis and some other underpinnings.
No one wants to see LR change, but the fact is they are going too. How much and in what ways... nobody knows yet.
FYI...I am not knocking LR in stating that. I apologized for the way I came off in my first posting here as I was just looking for comments from FL owners. Land Rover has a great reputation and are attractive vehicles.
You know the sun visor labels that warn SUV owners that such vehicles don’t handle like cars in emergency maneuvers? AutoWeek contributing editor and test-track driver Pete Albrecht experienced firsthand the seriousness of that warning on Oct. 16. He was driving a Jeep Liberty in a slalom test when it rolled over twice, landing back on its wheels.
The Liberty was bent on almost every body panel; Albrecht suffered cuts to his hands and still has a sore neck a month later. He was evaluating the new-for-2002 compact SUV for an AutoFile road test, driving a 490-foot slalom laid out in a level parking lot at California Speedway. The course uses eight traffic cones in a straight line, 70 feet apart, for seven gates.
DaimlerChrysler officials question the test methodology, its applicability to the way owners drive, the suitability of the test site and the driving technique. They also say no other testing agency or customer has reported an accident like this one.
Albrecht’s speed in the rear-drive 3.7-liter Jeep Liberty Sport was around 40 mph, comparable to the best-handling compact SUVs tested previously.
“I remember rounding the seventh cone and thinking I had this one in the bag,” said Albrecht. “The next thing I remember is an impact, and being tossed back and forth.” AW West Coast Editor Mark Vaughn, the other AutoFile test driver, was observing and timing the run from about 300 feet away from the center of the course.
“On the second-to-last cone, the Liberty lifted its driver-side wheels off the pavement, then settled back down, and Pete made the move for the last cone,” Vaughn reported. The Liberty rolled, driver-side first, the A-pillar and roof first contacting the pavement just past the last cone.
Albrecht earned his master’s degree in mechanical engineering from Northwestern University and was employed in engine programs at both Bosch and Porsche AG before entering journalism as Road & Track’s engineering editor in 1987. He has been freelancing since 1988 and a consultant to AW’s test program since 1992.
Liberty went on sale only six months ago, so there are no meaningful statistics about its accident record as yet. It is rated at two of five stars in the NHTSA’s rollover resistance ratings, suggesting a 30 to 40 percent risk of rollover in a single-car accident. The ratings, with one star indicating the highest risk and five stars the least, have been controversial. They are not derived from dynamic tests but calculated based on the track and height of the center of gravity. Most SUVs rate two or three stars; the only SUV with four is the minivan-based Pontiac Aztek 4x4.
NHTSA notes that 90 percent of rollovers happen not on pavement, as in this test, but when the vehicle leaves the road. The agency is developing a dynamic test standard to measure susceptibility to on-road rollovers, mandated by Congress to be established by November 2003. Many testing protocols are being evaluated; none resembles AutoWeek’s slalom, which is intentionally unique to the magazine.
“Our slalom was not designed to induce a rollover, or even test for one,” said AutoWeek’s Detroit-based Road Test Editor Natalie Neff. “Its aim is to evaluate handling characteristics, especially in transitions. Typically, we find the limit when we hit a cone or spin out. We didn’t set out to roll the Jeep.”
On the run just before the one in which the vehicle rolled, Albrecht spun the Liberty. During a typical test each driver makes eight to 10 runs in pursuit of the fastest time—the two fastest are averaged for the number reported in the road test. Spinning is not uncommon as the testers try various techniques and then push the subject vehicles to find their limits.
Hundreds of cars and trucks have undergone this same test, with the same two drivers using the same methods, since 1992. Only the Liberty has rolled over, though one other SUV—the BMW X5 in July 2000 —lifted two wheels off the pavement, an event engineers refer to as TWL (two-wheel lift). the BMW were tested at Pomona Fairgrounds; testing moved to the California Speedway early this year, in part because the pavement is of better quality.
After the accident, the Jeep, which had been loaned to AW by DaimlerChrysler, was impounded and the company hired an accident reconstruction expert. Gregory Stephens, a partner in Collision Research and Analysis with offices in Gig Harbor, Washington, has 14 years experience.
Basing his evaluation on tire marks on the pavement and marks the vehicle made when it rolled over, Stephens determined it made two full rolls. He estimated the speeds involved at 37 to 42.8 mph. The yaw rate—its rotational motion around a vertical axis—was around 100 degrees/second when it rolled. That is, it was spinning out even as it tumbled.
He attributed the rollover to a “combination of circumstances” peculiar to the test. Nothing broke on the vehicle to cause the crash, he said. Stephens measured a variation in the pavement friction of up to 10 percent at crucial points beside the sixth and seventh cones. He suggested the Liberty may have slid on pavement with low grip and then hit the high-friction surface, helping to initiate the roll. A contributing element, Stephens said, could be the energy stored in the springs and chassis as the vehicle negotiated the extended slalom in a pendulum-like effect.
Above is a portion of the accident investigator's diagram. Darker area at mid-diagram indicates stain on pavement, one of several where traction may be lower than the norm.
Stephens presented his report to AutoWeek editors and Jeep engineers in a meeting Nov. 15 at Chrysler’s Chelsea, Michigan, Proving Grounds. Jeep vehicle development executive engineer Jack Broomall said he had driven a similar slalom without incident.
“We’ve laid out what we think is a duplicate of your course and, frankly, we haven’t been able to replicate the result of your test,” said Broomall. “We can’t even get two wheels up.” The track at Chelsea differed in only one respect: The coefficient of friction was consistent. Said Broomall of the parking lot where AW tests: “We would never test there.”
He and vehicle dynamics engineer Ian Sharp said that Liberty had been subjected to a wide array of tests in development. These included slaloms with cones spaced at a more typical 100 feet; Consumer Union’s double lane-change maneuver (which has generated controversy for years, most recently when Consumer Reports rated the Mitsubishi Montero Limited “unacceptable” because it tipped onto two wheels); and several alternatives proposed thus far for NHTSA’s
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