Land Rover Freelander

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Comments

  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The Freelander does not offer power seats in any model, so the SE would not have given you that. Most of what you pay extra for in Land Rover products are not the convenience features you can see or touch, they are the body structure and ability to go places that other vehicles can't. Freelander is not marketed as a luxury SUV, but rather a premium SUV. The premium is the additions you cannot see and the features no one else offers, the extremely rigid body shell, HDC, True off-road 4 wheel ABS, 4 wheel traction control, etc.
  • elfieelfie Member Posts: 47
    Once you are in the X plan website were you generate your PIN number, look at the FAQ's and it states there and I quote "Fees for documentation or similar administration services are not allowed."

    I printed a copy of the FAQ's and brought it with me to the dealership. They said they didn't know they weren't allowed to charge a document fee so I gave them a copy of the print out and they sent me a refund check. Of course it was only a $45.00 fee and I told them I didn't care about it, but I also didn't want them getting dinged by Ford.

    I hope this helps, but I can cut/paste and e-mail you a copy if needed.

    Jackie
  • cpr3cpr3 Member Posts: 16
    Just picked up our Freelander SE last week and am, for the most part, very pleased with it. Our Dealer experience was a bit convolouted and delayed as the FL are, seemingl,y flying out the doors here in the SF bay area, but for the most part our salesman was terrific. I've heard that the delivery on certain SE color combos are now taking a month or more + a price mark-up.

    I've noticed a couple of "problems" driving it this first week - trouble shifting between 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd...any one have any idea of what might be going on?

    Secondly, it appears as if the antenna is too tall for parking lots here in SF with it hitting against the ceiling = worrisome!

    And thirdly, I have to admit that this is the WORST radio that I have ever had in a car ( and if this is the upgrade, I would hate to see the basic model = all static!). I expected better from Landrover, as our other car is an Audi with a Bose system ( which was just a couple of hundred $$$ more) hmmmmm.........
  • kaf1kaf1 Member Posts: 7
    Which website are you referring regarding the xplan and documentation fees? I discussed at length my refusal to pay documentation fees (my dealer charged 150) and finally negotiated the deal by having them "give" me the rubber floor mats and loadspace liner.
    I got my xplan through the shareholder services at ford and can't log on to the web page of partner recognition which I assume would have similar information.
    Any help would be appreciated?

    Going to pick up the owners manual today. Hopefully will inform me how to set my clock on the radio!
    Have had a great week with the car so far. No trouble noted with shifting of the gears- in fact, surprisingly smooth. I normally drive manual and have not particularly liked automatics in the past. Looking forward to exploring this weekend!
  • elfieelfie Member Posts: 47
    If you had to generate a PIN number to receive X plan pricing then that website should have the information.


    There is something on the main Ford website about X plan and the REACH program.


    http://www.ford.com/en/support/faq/reachBuyingProgram.htm#17


    That site clearly states that no document fee can be charged.


    Otherwise, you can call 1-877-XPLAN-00 for more information. They should be able to send you something detailing the requirements of the plan. If nothing else, let them know that your dealership charged you a document fee which is not allowed under the X plan.


    Ford doesn't like it when their dealerships mess around with the plan rules :-)


    The only website I can access the information is:

    http://www.fordpartner.com/index.asp

    which requires a partnership code.


    I hope this has been of some help to you. Let me know if there is something specific you want me to find.


    Jackie

  • troyy2ktroyy2k Member Posts: 91
    The Freelander has been out for many years in Europe. Is there any data relating to its reliability and its crashworhthiness? Any links would be appreciated. Also. has the engine that is being used in the U.S. been used before in Europe?
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The version in the U.S. with the V-6 has only been available for the last year in Europe. Any info on crashworthiness in older models would not represent the current model, as there have been signifigant changes to strengthen the chassis for the V-6 version, only about 30% of parts interchange with pre 2001 versions. The V-6 engine has been available in the Rover 75 for several years.
  • blueflbluefl Member Posts: 9
    Does anyone know what accessories are(will be) available for the Freelander? I ordered a towing package and am still waiting for it to "come in" to the dealer. Also, was wondering about being able to add front foglights and, since I have the S model, I would like to add roof rails and cross rails.
    I also have a quirky thing going on with my HDC which they still haven't figured out yet. The heated windshield has been great! The car has some quirky euro things but the more I drive it, the more I love it.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The towing package should br available shortly, there were a few minor issues that needed last minute signoffs from engineering. The roof rails and crossbars are available, part number is LRK20100. There are only going to be valance mounted fog lights available, I'm not sure of the part number on them since I am home now. The accessory guides should be to the dealers soon.
  • whitepigwhitepig Member Posts: 1
    Hi,
    I heard from a friend that the chassis of Freelander is the same as CRV. Is this true?
    Thanks for any info.
    WP.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The chassis of the Freelander is not the same as the CRV. They are totally different vehicles with no parts commonality.
  • freelanderpafreelanderpa Member Posts: 20
    LR lists three FL kits on their web site - Adventure, Edge and San Fransisco. Use the Craft a Land Rover link off the LR home page. Select the FL and move through the options and Step 5 shows the kits with pictures on the color of FL you select. No safari kit with the read ladder that the Disovery has.

    Adventure Kit
    Black wrap-around brush bar, black side protection rails, full-length roof rails with cross bars and rear lamp guards.

    Edge Kit
    Black protection bar with stainless steel inserts, twin lamp pods(auxiliary fog and driving lamps), full-length roof rails with cross bars and bodyside rubbing strips.

    San Francisco Kit
    Polished stainless steel A- frame brush bar, stainless steal side protection rails and full-length roof rails and cross bars.

    Cheers, John
  • countsmackula1countsmackula1 Member Posts: 61
    Land Rover diluted its heritage as well as its brand image by offering an all wheel drive grocery buggy CRV wanna be. My God, it doesn't take rocket science to know that you'd get stuck in a flat minute without low range(Yes, I know it has a viscious coupling differential). But of course, it's all about LOOKING like it's capable, even though it's not. Why would anyone pay that kind of money for an all wheel driver witha weka 2.5 engine with 175 weak horsepower and limited space when you coud buy a capable 210 horse Jeep liberty for less with set-it-and-forget-it Selec-Trac and STILL have the capability IF and WHEN you need it? What a joke. If Jeep ever creates an all wheel driver, I'll leave the fold.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Check out the Detroit Auto show coverage, and the Jeep Compass. While you may need a hard core off-road machine, 95% of the people who buy SUV's don't. If you ran a company that produced SUV's who would you target your product too, the 95% who don't need or care if a vehicle is a full out rock hopper, or the 5% that is left. I can assure you that the Freelander is very capable off road. Also low range is just one of many attributes that make a vehicle competent off road. I think the Liberty is a fine vehicle, but in some circles it is criticized for having independent front suspension.
    Having access to the opinions to several ex-camel trophy drivers, and having driven the vehicle off-road myself, I can assure everyone the Freelander is more than a CRV wannabe. Try it yourself, it will surprise you.
  • smichsmich Member Posts: 31
    I'm looking for wheel locks for my FL.I have some on order with the dealer but i've waited almost a month now so,I'm looking elsewhere.
    What size are the lug nuts or thread size?
    and where can I get them?
    Stan
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Getting these aftermarket is difficult. The problem is with the supplier Mcgard, they are the number one supplier to both the manufacturers and the aftermarket. The good thing is that Land Rover Freelander wheels will only fit another Freelander, so the chances of someone stealing them are slight.
  • blueflbluefl Member Posts: 9
    $1500 for parts not including labor OUCH! I'm mostly interested in the Extended Roof rails and crossbars and side rub guards. My dealer said they were available separately and will price it out for me. Dealer said tow package won't be available till the end of Feb. Thanks tincup for all the useful info.

    Countsmacula1; I admit I'll haul more groceries than anything but I also drive a much higher hp sport type sedan and I am really amazed how (in sport mode) this thing moves. The transmission is smooth and peppy. As tincup said...you might be surprised.
  • blueflbluefl Member Posts: 9
    I keep reading that the FL lacks cargo space compared to the competition but I just don't see it (or feel it). I've been in the Liberty and the rear cargo area seems smaller to me, the seats don't seem to fold as easily or flatly. I haven't been in the CRV but it does look a tad longer from the outside. Not enough to account for the vast differnce in the published dimensions for cargo space. So far I'm not feeling "pinched" for space but I might be partial because I (happily-so far) own the FL. Anyway...safe driving in whatever you own!
  • troyy2ktroyy2k Member Posts: 91
    Interesting that a vehicle priced around $30,000 has no One-Touch Window-Open feature, nor seat height adjustment, nor power seats. Even the Hyundai Santa Fe, priced $10,000 cheaper, has these features.
  • elfieelfie Member Posts: 47
    Actually, my FL does have the one touch feature. The key is to not hold the button down, just hit it an let go.

    As for cargo space, I have more than enough room. The seats fold much easier than other SUV's making loading and unloading a breeze. During Christmas with all the mailing and receiving, I loaded my FL to the max and was amazed at how much fit and how easy it was.

    I don't care what anyone says about low range and the FL not being a true off roader, I will disagree with that opinion every time. I may not run the Rubicon but I live on 10 acres with hills, creeks, gophers, bridges, mud and ice. So far, the FL has sailed through everything without a problem.

    Jackie
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    Are you sure about your info? I've checked the equipt. listing on Edmunds and they do not list power seats or height adjustable seats on the Santa Fe. Part of the price diiference has to do with the strengths of the different currencies. The strength of the pound is making car production in the UK very high compared to the US, and even more so compared to Korea.
  • sirgilligansirgilligan Member Posts: 14
    I attended an auto show this last weekend (Jan, 19,2002). I wanted to compare interior comfort on the Freelander, Saturn VUE, Jeep Liberty, and Nissan XTerra. My rankings are:
    1st Place: Freelander
    2nd Place: Saturn VUE
    3rd Place: Jeep Liberty
    4th Place: Nissan XTerra

    Freelander-front and rear seats very comfortable. I am 6'3" tall. Everyone enjoyed the crab like pincers of the rear armrest cupholders. Fit and finish was very nice. One thing I look for is a place to rest my right foot when cruise is engaged. Freelander gave plenty of room.

    VUE-seats were comfortable but could be better. Too much plastic on door panels, gave cheap impression. Large space in rear. Nice folding seats. Good room for right foot for cruise control driving.

    Liberty-seats uncomfortable. No room for right foot for cruise control driving. Nice and tall. Interior looks were o.k. Good ground clearance.

    XTerra-front seat o.k. Rear seat terrible. You have to disassemble rear seat bottom to fold the seat down. No right front foot room for cruise control driving. Good ground clearance. Super charger will probably toast the engine in the long run.

    When you get any of these vehicles similarly equipped, their prices are about the same.

    P.S. Friend has Honda CRV and it is puny, gutless, weak, made light and flimsy. If it wasn't a Honda you couldn't outsell Huyndae! Ford Escape is not too bad.

    Any opinions on how Landrover treats their customer? Saturn is probably impossible to beat. I wish GM would leave Saturn alone.
  • elfieelfie Member Posts: 47
    My LR dealership has been great. There was no pressure, no hassle involved. Of course, I already knew what I wanted, called and asked if they had it in stock and made an appointment to test drive & buy. The staff is friendly and you get a service person assigned to you, which is nice. The sales manager gave me a breakdown of all the costs before I ever hit the F & I office so there were no surprises.

    There have only been two downsides for me with my Land Rover. One is that they don't have loaner cars and their service department is not open on weekends, so if your car needs work, you have to make other arrangements. Not too bad if there was a dealership in practically every city like some, but for me it's an hour and a half drive each way.

    The second is the gas cap. I don't like that I have to hold the darn thing while filling up. If LR is going to make any future changes, I would suggest that they have a place to hold the gas cap.

    Other than that, the car and overall experience has been wonderful. By far the best and easiest car buying I have ever done. Land Rover has won a lifetime customer in me.

    Jackie
  • teaboy1teaboy1 Member Posts: 1
    I've noticed recently on my wife's FL that the gear change from 2nd to 3rd is a little rough, definitely not as smooth as the others. Anybody else notice this?

    Besides this, we love it. It performed very well on snow covered mountain roads on a ski trip last weekend. I even got to check out the HDC feature... very handy when you need it.
  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    There may be a recall on the hard shift.
  • freelanderpafreelanderpa Member Posts: 20
    Yes, my FL experienced rough shifting from 2nd to 3rd. It seemed to last for about 500 miles and has since disappeared. It's been shifting smoothly for about 1,000 miles now. I've put 2,000 miles on in six weeks.

    John
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    There is no recall on hard shifting.
  • jkulp42757jkulp42757 Member Posts: 83
    "Rumor has it British automotive company Land Rover risks shutdown cuz the company that supplies the chassis for its vehicles has gone bankrupt, and its administrators (KPMG) are asking for millions of pounds of "goodwill". 1,400 jobs possibly affected."

    This information is located on a particular website which list various businesses that have gone, or may go under. Due to Edmunds.com terms of service, and profanity in the website address I am unable to list the website address here.

    Thanks
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    This seems terribly unlikely since Ford owns LR completely. More then likely it is just the frame company trying to bully some dough out of Ford since the next Discovery uses an Explorer platform and this company will lose a lot of money when that happens.

    Don't sweat it. :-)
  • csebasticsebasti Member Posts: 8
    Trying to decide among these three...any thoughts would be helpful. To play devil's advocate, my initial concerns about the FL are quality/reliability and price. All the posts about the hardshifting also doesn't sound so great. Thanks
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    All the posts? teaboy is the only post complaining about that. There were two posts in response.
  • jkulp42757jkulp42757 Member Posts: 83
  • csebasticsebasti Member Posts: 8
    No, there were at least three "complaints" about shifting in the last 20 or so posts that I checked...here they are:

    - 449 of 482: My FL seems to shifting a little rough going from 2nd to 3rd. All the other shifts are very smooth. Anyone else experiencing this?
    - #453 of 482: trouble shifting between 1st and 2nd and then 2nd and 3rd...any one have any idea of what might be going on?
    - #474 of 482: I've noticed recently on my wife's FL that the gear change from 2nd to 3rd is a little rough, definitely not as smooth as the others. Anybody else notice this?
  • smichsmich Member Posts: 31
    About these "complaints" of hard shifting: Does it happen in sport mode or regular mode? I think sport mode shifts smoother than regular mode but I have no serious complaints about this vehicle so far.Well....the $12.00 cost of a dealer oil filter is a bit steep!
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    I was sadly disappointed at the first day of the Detroit Auto Show. Upon sitting in the FreeLander, I noticed that the cheap Ford interior had already failed in many places. The awkward cupholder on the dash near the windshield had already broken and required manual assistance to open fully, the driver's seat tracks were already out of place and one side of the seat was unable to move, lastly, the knee bolster under the steering wheel had stripped out its screws and was held in place by a bungee cord. In fact people were leaving as fast as they could so they wouldn't get blamed for the damage.

    Some comments I heard were: "you could put duct tape over the logo and write Suzuki on the hood with a magic marker and people would believe it." "looks like Daewoo and the Ford Escape had an illegitamate child."

    Anybody else here this?
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    Car and Drive states that the FL front end is actually one full inch lower than a Subaru's.
  • joshjjoshj Member Posts: 3
    Ford interior? I guess if you want to put the blame on Ford that is fine but this vehicle is engineered in England by the same Brits who make the Range Rover.

    Unfortunately the folks in Detroit don't have enough respect to refrain from monkeying with and causing damage to a vehicle they don't own. That is their fault not Land Rover's.

    If you want a Suzuki on your hood go right ahead, but don't feel bad because you can't afford the Freelander and feel the need to attempt to create doubt in otherwise satisfied Land Rover owners' minds.
  • junaidjunaid Member Posts: 18
    I understand why colorado1974 has used such strong comments against FL. After all he is a Jeep salesman.

    #235 in "Jeep Liberty problems" ...by colorado1974
    ....I am a Jeep salesman who just bought a Liberty for my wife.

    I don't blame him, Liberty is an excellent vehicle in its own way. FL is good in its own way. I think its more upto the buyer to decide what exactly he wants in his vehicle which should sway him towards one vehicle or other. Liberty is more practical, less expensive, gives more off-road confidence but FL is more prestige, status, style and smooth engine.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    I apologize for coming off so harshly. That wasn't my intent. Since in my area, the Freelander is competition for me, I was curious to see if people were having those problems. I sell numerous brands and did get my wife a Liberty based on a lot of things. It's ride is not as smooth or refined as the LR FL but other things swayed the decision. I digress...Has anybody had the fit and finish problems that I have witnessed first hand from the show and one very limited test drive?
  • blueflbluefl Member Posts: 9
    I have owned the Fl for 1 month and I feel very comfortable with the interior and its workings. The radio controls, heating controls, blinker, windshield washer controls have a nice feel to me. I have a little trouble with the window controls in the center though. It's a clumsy location to me since my other car had them on the door. Nothing in the interior is broken yet and I don't expect anything to break unless it is subjected to some severe abuse. The chunky steering wheel is very comfortable to handle and everyone loves the cup holder on the dashboard as well as the one in the back seat. I have ridden in the Liberty Sport and I think the interior of the FL S trim is of equal quality. The backseats flip so easily and the roll down rear window, as opposed to the flip up window, was a selling point along with the 5 speed trans, sport shifter and Hill Descent Control. I admit, LR might want to add some more storage, especially a place for sunglasses, cds (the center console cubby is too small for cd case) and give this thing power seats with height adjustment. As far as the quality of the interior, I'm satisfied. If it's true that the FL on display at the auto show was really in such bad shape, it must have undergone some serious abuse. I can't believe casual inspection by show goers could have resulted in that kind of damage. Just MHO.
  • smichsmich Member Posts: 31
    I too have owned my FL for just over a month now and feel good about this vehicle and the buying process. I test drove both the Liberty and the FL. Ultimately, I went with Land Rover.
    Judging a vehicle at an Auto Show is not really fair. During the Chicago 2001 Auto Show, the Land Rover folks had the Freelander locked,so I could not sit inside,only look through the windows. The condition of other vehicles on display were kinda shabby.Some had shifter knobs and other control knobs missing from people stealing them or dealers removing them to prevent theft!
  • sirgilligansirgilligan Member Posts: 14
    At the Salt Lake City auto show, the Freelander was in good shape. Everything working, all parts in their place. It seem that some people enjoy damaging cars. Many cars at the show were missing their shifter knobs, some cars had every dash control switch or knob damaged. I think some people swipe them to replace broken ones on their personal vehicles.
  • cubemancubeman Member Posts: 3
    I just purchased my FL S 2 weeks ago and am very happy with it. However does anyone know when the hitch receiver, roof rack and locking lugs will be available in the NY/NJ area. This is one of the down sides to purchasing a new model vehicle.

    P.S. thanks for the tip on the auto driver side window. I was pressing the button too long.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    The full length roof rails with crossbars are available, unfortunately there has been a delay in the accessory catalog so the retailers aren't aware of this. The Part number is LRK20100. If you have an SE model, it will have the rails but not the crossbars, which are LRK20150. The trailer hitches should be available in the next few weeks, while there is a supplier problem on the wheel locks. Freelander wheels will not fit any other vehicles, so the chances of them being stolen is minimal.
  • landlover2176landlover2176 Member Posts: 4
    I have been a Land Rover owner for many years and have extensive knowledge of the product. After reading the messages posted, I can see that most of you guys have no idea what your talking about. The first thing I would like to clear up,
    Ford owns Land Rover. However, Land Rover is a seperate division inside Ford as well as Jaguar and Astin Martin. Land Rovers have been built in England since 1948. It is a very european vehicle and has not even a hint of ford design. I have never heard anybody say " I wish ford would have done a better job on the jaguar or i wish ford would have put a bigger engine in that $255,000 Aston Martin. If you don't like the design blame Land Rover, not ford. To clear another ludicrous statement up. By no means will Land Rover use the ford explorer frame in It's next design. Land Rover is world renound for its rigid vehicles whether it is a unibody (Freelander , 03 Range Rover) or a body on frame ( Discovery, 02 Range Rover) Land Rover frames are twice the size of most cars. It is two C- section frames seam welded together. If you want to talk about shared technology get you facts straight. Honda has a similar unibody construction to freelander. They were designed together, but the Freelander frame is much more rigid. The engine in the new Range Rover will be from the BMW X5 with a few off road improvements. Most of the electronics in the car have been designed with the help of BMW. Lastly, to the jeep salesman. That wasn't very bussiness like bashing the Freelander like you did, especialy when you just put your wife in one of the most dangerous SUV's available. 40% chance of rollover in any single collision, crash tests were only marginal. That's one step above Poor. To respond to cubeman's question about parts. I would stay in regular contact with you parts department. Most of the kits for Freelander should be coming soon.
  • spookypuffspookypuff Member Posts: 10
    I'm seriously debating between the Xterra SE & the Freelander S.

    I am in the market for a small to mid sized SUV that handles good on pavement but has the off-road capabilities I need for weekend excusions.

    I'd like opinions from those actually OWN a Freelander. :)

    I think the Xterra might be a better deal w/ more capapbilities for the price, but I'm concerned about it's on-pavement handling.

    However, the Freelander is "new" for the US & thus "unproven" here. But it seems to have the "on pavement" handling/less roll-over risk that I'm looking for.

    Please don't suggest a Ford since they are my arch-enemy in life (for reasons too numerous to count). I am having a hard enough time reconciling that Ford owns LR. :(
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    Am i the only one that read that little tirade in a snotty, English voice? :-)

    I do know what I am talking about since P.A.G. is a client of my firms. The Explorer-based Discovery is NOT a done deal, as I said above, but it IS in strong consideration.

    Also, since you know so much, you should know already that JUST because the Explorer platform is used as a base does NOT mean that LR won't tweak it and strengthen it for thier own use.

    Luckily, P.A.G. has seen from the Jag X-type mess that having too much Ford blood under a prestigious nameplate CAN and WILL effect sales and image. It is for this reason that I would expect that the Explorer-based Discovery would vary a great deal from the Explorer even if it does use the basic chassis and some other underpinnings.

    No one wants to see LR change, but the fact is they are going too. How much and in what ways... nobody knows yet.
  • colorado1974colorado1974 Member Posts: 177
    You must have mis-read what I wrote. I put her in a Jeep, not a Ford or Ford product. Jeep does have the disctinction of being the safest SUV. Statistically Jeep has fewer fatalities per accident than any other SUV on the road. Chrysler Minivans claim that title for every vehicle ever sold in America. You are talking to the wrong person about safety. Look at the pictures at www.iihs.org. The Liberty's rating was a marginal because the dummy's head leaned out the window after the crash test...not during...after. I don't understand how the indivual ratings are all above a marginal but yet that is what it received overall. Doesn't make sense. In looking at the pictures, it's arguable that Jeep performed in the top 10% with the Ford Escape being the worst performer. The Freelander was not tested as of yet.

    FYI...I am not knocking LR in stating that. I apologized for the way I came off in my first posting here as I was just looking for comments from FL owners. Land Rover has a great reputation and are attractive vehicles.
  • landlover2176landlover2176 Member Posts: 4
    i know you put her in a jeep. Thats what i am talking about. here is an article from auto week.

    You know the sun visor labels that warn SUV owners that such vehicles don’t handle like cars in emergency maneuvers? AutoWeek contributing editor and test-track driver Pete Albrecht experienced firsthand the seriousness of that warning on Oct. 16. He was driving a Jeep Liberty in a slalom test when it rolled over twice, landing back on its wheels.

    The Liberty was bent on almost every body panel; Albrecht suffered cuts to his hands and still has a sore neck a month later. He was evaluating the new-for-2002 compact SUV for an AutoFile road test, driving a 490-foot slalom laid out in a level parking lot at California Speedway. The course uses eight traffic cones in a straight line, 70 feet apart, for seven gates.

    DaimlerChrysler officials question the test methodology, its applicability to the way owners drive, the suitability of the test site and the driving technique. They also say no other testing agency or customer has reported an accident like this one.

    Albrecht’s speed in the rear-drive 3.7-liter Jeep Liberty Sport was around 40 mph, comparable to the best-handling compact SUVs tested previously.

    “I remember rounding the seventh cone and thinking I had this one in the bag,” said Albrecht. “The next thing I remember is an impact, and being tossed back and forth.” AW West Coast Editor Mark Vaughn, the other AutoFile test driver, was observing and timing the run from about 300 feet away from the center of the course.

    “On the second-to-last cone, the Liberty lifted its driver-side wheels off the pavement, then settled back down, and Pete made the move for the last cone,” Vaughn reported. The Liberty rolled, driver-side first, the A-pillar and roof first contacting the pavement just past the last cone.

    Albrecht earned his master’s degree in mechanical engineering from Northwestern University and was employed in engine programs at both Bosch and Porsche AG before entering journalism as Road & Track’s engineering editor in 1987. He has been freelancing since 1988 and a consultant to AW’s test program since 1992.

    Liberty went on sale only six months ago, so there are no meaningful statistics about its accident record as yet. It is rated at two of five stars in the NHTSA’s rollover resistance ratings, suggesting a 30 to 40 percent risk of rollover in a single-car accident. The ratings, with one star indicating the highest risk and five stars the least, have been controversial. They are not derived from dynamic tests but calculated based on the track and height of the center of gravity. Most SUVs rate two or three stars; the only SUV with four is the minivan-based Pontiac Aztek 4x4.

    NHTSA notes that 90 percent of rollovers happen not on pavement, as in this test, but when the vehicle leaves the road. The agency is developing a dynamic test standard to measure susceptibility to on-road rollovers, mandated by Congress to be established by November 2003. Many testing protocols are being evaluated; none resembles AutoWeek’s slalom, which is intentionally unique to the magazine.

    “Our slalom was not designed to induce a rollover, or even test for one,” said AutoWeek’s Detroit-based Road Test Editor Natalie Neff. “Its aim is to evaluate handling characteristics, especially in transitions. Typically, we find the limit when we hit a cone or spin out. We didn’t set out to roll the Jeep.”

    On the run just before the one in which the vehicle rolled, Albrecht spun the Liberty. During a typical test each driver makes eight to 10 runs in pursuit of the fastest time—the two fastest are averaged for the number reported in the road test. Spinning is not uncommon as the testers try various techniques and then push the subject vehicles to find their limits.

    Hundreds of cars and trucks have undergone this same test, with the same two drivers using the same methods, since 1992. Only the Liberty has rolled over, though one other SUV—the BMW X5 in July 2000 —lifted two wheels off the pavement, an event engineers refer to as TWL (two-wheel lift). the BMW were tested at Pomona Fairgrounds; testing moved to the California Speedway early this year, in part because the pavement is of better quality.

    After the accident, the Jeep, which had been loaned to AW by DaimlerChrysler, was impounded and the company hired an accident reconstruction expert. Gregory Stephens, a partner in Collision Research and Analysis with offices in Gig Harbor, Washington, has 14 years experience.

    Basing his evaluation on tire marks on the pavement and marks the vehicle made when it rolled over, Stephens determined it made two full rolls. He estimated the speeds involved at 37 to 42.8 mph. The yaw rate—its rotational motion around a vertical axis—was around 100 degrees/second when it rolled. That is, it was spinning out even as it tumbled.

    He attributed the rollover to a “combination of circumstances” peculiar to the test. Nothing broke on the vehicle to cause the crash, he said. Stephens measured a variation in the pavement friction of up to 10 percent at crucial points beside the sixth and seventh cones. He suggested the Liberty may have slid on pavement with low grip and then hit the high-friction surface, helping to initiate the roll. A contributing element, Stephens said, could be the energy stored in the springs and chassis as the vehicle negotiated the extended slalom in a pendulum-like effect.


    Above is a portion of the accident investigator's diagram. Darker area at mid-diagram indicates stain on pavement, one of several where traction may be lower than the norm.


    Stephens presented his report to AutoWeek editors and Jeep engineers in a meeting Nov. 15 at Chrysler’s Chelsea, Michigan, Proving Grounds. Jeep vehicle development executive engineer Jack Broomall said he had driven a similar slalom without incident.

    “We’ve laid out what we think is a duplicate of your course and, frankly, we haven’t been able to replicate the result of your test,” said Broomall. “We can’t even get two wheels up.” The track at Chelsea differed in only one respect: The coefficient of friction was consistent. Said Broomall of the parking lot where AW tests: “We would never test there.”

    He and vehicle dynamics engineer Ian Sharp said that Liberty had been subjected to a wide array of tests in development. These included slaloms with cones spaced at a more typical 100 feet; Consumer Union’s double lane-change maneuver (which has generated controversy for years, most recently when Consumer Reports rated the Mitsubishi Montero Limited “unacceptable” because it tipped onto two wheels); and several alternatives proposed thus far for NHTSA’s
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Let's refrain from posting full articles from copyrighted sources - excerpts and links would be just fine!

    Thanks.

    Tidester
    Host
    SUVs
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