Honda Civic Si / SiR 2005 and earlier

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  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    The people I know who favors hatches are generally born after 1970. Though there are exceptions and among them, I can think of a couple who dislikes hatches.

    But a majority of the people I know who are > 30 wouldn't be caught dead in a hatch. In the Celica/RSX/Cougar hatches, it is not so much a problem. Just not the Metros/GTi/Si hatches.

    So, the 1970 guideline is pretty accurate.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Now you are grouping a Metro with a GTI and SI? okaaayy...... Slight difference between 'em don't ya think?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I'm a big fan of rear window wipers. Gotta have a hatch.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    The average joe or jane on the street who has no clue what an Si is (these are probably the same ones who are die hard V8 fans of the 60s and 70s) will see a cheapo car when seeing the Si esp. in its current shape.

    Don't get me wrong. I like the Si but at least I know what other people perceives it as. To me, it will be (once I buy it) a cheap commuter for me on my daily 60miles trip to and back from work. That's all. It is afterall just a car that depreciates daily. Unless of course I buy a rare 2000 Si and I might be able to sell it for more than what I paid for it :P and we all know this is the truth, don't we now?
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    One of the bigger one in Metro Detroit. I tell you, this particular Honda dealer really pissed me off. Despite buying cars from them in the past, I thought they would give me a deal. At least better than what they are offering everyone else. The price on 02 SIs are $15,988 + dest + tax etc. The price I offered them was $15,600 which including dest and tax would come up to about $17k. The sales manager said in a loud voice, making sure I could hear it sitting in the internet sales person's office, "ask him what he has been smoking".

    They wanted about $17.5k out the door. Or at least they present to me as if it is out the door. I know they'll throw in the doc fee ($40 in MI) at the last minute just to make extra $$.

    $17.5k is a good price considering the invoice price. But it is late in the year and the Si as we know is not selling. 03s are here. Will see how long they'll stick to their guns.

    Fortunately for me, I'm not desperate to buy yet.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    I think that even someone who doesn't know much about cars will be able to tell that a SI/GTI are well beyond a Metro. And hatchbacks aren't as "cheap" as they used to be. MB has the C230 and BMW had the 318TI. Porsche is also working on a hatchback type car to sell here. The only reason I can see to group the Metro/SI/GTI together is because they both have 4 wheels, a steering wheel, and an engine (or in the Metro's case 1/2 an engine).
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    The metro actually turned into a decent car, in europe. Here it suffered from a distinct lack of evolution. GM didn't develop this car at all and so it remained a very cynical expression of the use in America for a small car. No wonder people think they hate small hatchbacks.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    The GTi and SI and Metro have 1 common design feature. The rear hatch is almost vertical making it wagon like. From a far, w/o seeing the emblem or anything, it looks like a cheap hatch.

    Again, the hatchback of the C230, 381ti and RSX are VERY DIFFERENT from the hatchback of the Si/GTi/Metro. Can't you tell?? The c230 and RSX look almost like 2 door coupes as well as the defunct Cougar except they all have rear wipers.

    Btw, you can't call that half baked c230 a real MB. The inside seats are comparable to a Neon. Seriously! Who would buy a c230? It's a wannabe car.
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    That "cheap" design feature makes the car downright practical whereas other hatches (like celica and RSX) use up that practical feature to try and look sexy. Seriously, how can you knock a design element for being functional? Thats like disliking trucks for the ability to carry things in the bed or tow heavy loads...
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Si's are selling in the Chicago area for about $16K. Detroit is not very far away. If you want to have a copy of an add to show your dealer then you can click here http://www.communityhonda.com/New-Car-Specials.htm


    The prices are genuine and include destination. No way would I pay more than $16K for a Si.

  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    over that of the RSX/GTS. Sure it might *cheapen* the looks for those of us born before 1970 (I'm in 1972 but I don't really care), but like you said, functionality is important to some and looks are to others.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    The reason I put in the 00 Civic hatch is because the CTR in JapAN is based on a hatch style not the SI. Since there's a freshening style change for the 02 hatch for Civic compared to 00 hatch and there's none for the 00 Metro, I figured it is only fair to see the years I included.

    Now, I suggest you print this page and show it to your friends who are *brand* minded. Those who drives Bummer and MB. See what they think of hatches and if any of these look any different to them? Do they convey the feeling of CHEAP?

    Photos courtesy of Edmunds.

    00 Metro:
    image

    00 Civic Hatch
    image

    SI:
    image

    Daewoo Lanos
    image
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    03 for $15,995 is great! But I can't see the fine print on the bottom to see if the sales price include dest. But you said the price does include dest. Do you know this for a fact?

    Also, just underneath the 03 SI ad. I can almost read what it says "V6, AUTO, MODEL#xxxxxx"

    Obviously the SI is 4 cylinder w/ a stick. But I'm not willing to go to Chicago just to buy a Civic, though it is 4hrs. away.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    A circle is round, a square is square and a hatch does not have a truck. Can we discuss the Si and not Daewoos and Geo's please?

    The Si will go 130 mph, has four wheel disc brakes same as Acura RSX, weighs the same as the RSX, has electric steering, great seats and is available for $16K right now which in my opinion makes it a bargain. Compared to the RSX and other sporty similar cars the Si shines.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I bought one for $15,995 last week. Including dest. and excluding tax, title and doc fee.
    Yes I know this for a fact.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    and I'm sure you've done it once or twice too ;)

    In anycase, the reason why Metros and Daewoos came up is because of the similar of their looks and I just want to make the point that the SI, looking from a far looks pretty much like any other hatches out there. Something which anonymous post disagrees.

    Back to our regular scheduled programming...

    Just read your post. That's an awesome price for an 03. Thanks again for the info. I just need to wrestle the Honda dealers here in Metro Detroit some more.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The styling of the Si does blend in. To me this is a good thing. Less chance of getting noticed and getting a ticket.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    I wonder how it was that your dealer was able to sell a 2003 Civic Si for $15,995.00. Apparently, there is no factory money for the 2003 Civic Si so the dealer(s), that I am negotiating with, would not honor such a price. Oh well, I am happy that you got a great deal, though. Have fun with your new ride.
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    Comments about Town Hall hosts/policies are not appropriate for these discussions.


    Please communicate with me by email if you'd like to discuss off topic issues that are policy related. Believe it or not, I'd be willing to listen to your side... and discuss any problems you're experiencing here. Revka@edmunds.com

    You can also contact our Town Hall manager: sylvia@edmunds.com

    And now back to the subject of Honda Civic Si / SiR. Thanks for your participation.


    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host

  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    Saw an issue at my local grocery before I proceed on to my shopping duties. :) A dealership in CA, Diamond Bar Honda, sells Civic Sis that are already customized. They showed the transformation of a Silver one being added with 18" rims, lowering springs, camber kit, AEM CAI, and cat-back exhaust. It added about $3K to the price (which I'm sure can be lower/higher depending on where one shops). Everyone, take a look and see what the Civic Si can transform into. I like the way it looked after with the 18" rims and lowered profile. I would get different rims, though, but that's a personal preference. :)
  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Ok, somebody can't take a joke.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The $15,995 Si I have was for 2002. Dealer advertised 2003 but I think all they have in stock is 2002. Several other dealers all priced the Si at $17,500. And there is Honda money to dealer on the 2002's. Don't let the greedy dealers fool you.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    thanks for the clarification.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    WITH dest. thrown in coz' it is $460. Now, how to I get this deal from local dealers? Are you a relative of the owner of that dealership by any chance? Did you have a trade? Did you finance through them? They didn't reel you in with an 18% loan did they?
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    A couple of posts back, I said that a dealer is offering $16,450 (including destination) + tax + tag + $400 dealer fee for a 2003 Si, which is just a difference of $455 (not counting dealer fee) on moparbad's deal. I'm trying to get the dealer fee off and if I do, I think it's as good as it may get on a 2003.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    I thought I saw that recently. This would make a 2002 a better deal.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    In MI, it is a standard $40. Any dealership that charges more is just trying to make more money from the clueless customers. However this fee varies from state to state. So it might very well be in your state, it cost $400. I believe in CA, it cost about $200?? Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Where abouts are you at Crikey?

    The fine print on one of the dealership here in metro Detroit says you have to give up the special AHFC financing in lieu of the dealer cash. However, I do believe it is all too late now. I believe the 1.9/2y, 3.9/3y etc. financing terms ended 10/31.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    The $15,995 price was negotiated over the phone before I went to the dealer. It was price w/o trade. The price was not advertised at the time so I was emailing many dealers and offering $16K for a Si. I did finance thru Honda. When I went to the dealership I already had financing arranged thru my CU but the dealership beat the rate. A doc fee of less than $50 was added and that was only added fee other than tax, title and license. Two other dealers called later in the day and offered me the same deal.
  • crikeycrikey Member Posts: 1,041
    I'm in FL. Dealers here charge so much on fees -- built-in profit.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    when you go in w/ an agreed upon price of $16k, they'll spring the dest. charge $460 when you sign papers. What can you do? This is Detroit :(
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    You can look at the pictures that you posted and see that even though all 4 cars are hatchbacks the Civic's are obviously bigger and definitely not as cheap looking as the Daewoo and Metro. IMO somebody who puts a SI in the same class as a Metro, just because of the number of doors and the design of them, doesn't deserve to drive a SI.

    4 hours isn't too far to drive if it's a car you want and the price is right. And look at it this way, at least by the time you get home the break-in period will almost be over and you won't have to baby the car as long. Those first few weeks were a drag when I had to shift at 3500 RPM every time.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    I usually shift around 3-4k RPM. But maybe that's coz' it has enough torque and I don't see the reason to redline it. Either that or I'm just looking to get to work.

    You and I know that the SI looks way better than the Metro or Lanos. But you got to admit the previous CTR in JapAN has always been a hatchback and it looks like the 00 Civic Hatch. Now that bears a strong similarity to the Metros.

    I'm not trying to put down the SI. I like the styling despite it looking like a Metro or mini-Odyssey. But at least I admit the average joes and janes (and I do have a lot of those where I work - big 3 auto maker) will not know the difference from a CTR (if it is sold in US) from a Metro let alone the SI. But I don't care.

    4 hrs. isn't far to drive. Chicago is about 280 miles away. Maybe you can give me a ride to Chicago? No? The problem is how the heck do I get there? Bus, train, plane?? Seem so much hassle just to save $460 on the dest. The price in metro Detroit is $15988 + dest. Price in Chicago is $15995 w/ dest.

    Ok.. now I don't have a car officially. Strange feeling.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    The SI has plenty of torque especially after driving a 00 SI for a few months. That doesn't mean that it isn't fun to redline it or even rev to 6000 RPM. It's such a smooth engine it makes you want to do it.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    At speeds of 60 mph or above I am hearing an annoying wind noise. Sounds like wind blowing over the top of a tin can. Area of origin is the rear of the car maybe the hatch, spoiler, antenna area. Do other owners of the Si have this noise?
  • visionxpvisionxp Member Posts: 45
    on the new Si.
    i like the old one better even though the nw one has better performance ... the 2003 looks wayyy tooo ugly for a 16 k compact.

    anyway ... just my $.02
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    Will be picking it up on Monday. Had to drive about 50 miles away to a dealership but it was worth it. Not only the price was good but I don't have to buy it from the various dealers in suburb. of metro Detroit who thinks the SI is such a *hot* car.

    Anyway, I'm happy to report I got the car for $15,995 (this price includes destination). No DOC fee which is the first for me buying a car in Michigan (usually it is $40). Floor mats included ($70). So, the car is actually $15,535 + $460 dest + tax + title + plate transfer (from my previous car).

    I had to settle for white though since that's the only color it was left.

    Almost didn't buy it coz' of this buzzing sound coming from the steering column and glove compartment. The other car has a buzzing from the glove box. Sounded like a typical cheap JapANESE car. I was so used to those sounds when I had a 97 Civic. A big change from my 01 A4. But we figured out what caused the buzzing. Promptly removed the offending culprit (plastic sticker).

    Car is a little buzzier than my A4 but it's ok. Almost half the price of my car. What can I expect in terms of insulation, right?

    Will be my beater to drive to work from now on.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    coupe, I wouldn't have bought it. One of the main reason I wanted the SI is coz' of the hatch and it's cheap. Again, cheap is relative.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    What brings you over here from the BMW room vision? Did ya get beat by an SI on your way home from the repair shop?
  • revkarevka Member Posts: 1,750
    To moparbad- Post 1136. You may also want to post your question in our Honda Civic problems discussion. Someone there may be able to offer some feedback. Good luck.

    To hamproof - Congratulations on your new 02 Civic Si! We look forward to hearing about your delivery experience. Happy Motoring!

    Revka

    Hatchbacks & Wagons Host
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    really funny sound as you reverse? I'm picking up the car tonight and I want to make sure what I was told is accurate.

    When I did this in the SI - put the car in reverse, give it some gas and release the clutch and as the car is moving back (say 3-5mph), step on the clutch and release the gas - I hear this whinning sound coming from the transmission. It helps if you lower the windows and be in the quiet surrounding. I brought it up to the sales guy but he said it's normal. I told him to try it out on another SI and the same noise could be produced. He said all manual trans. Honda makes that sound.

    It is hard to describe the sound, but it sounds like "wear(ng)-wear(ng)-wear(ng)-wear(ng)". Like how you'll say wearing but w/o the i. Like wang wang wang. Not too loud but you can definitely hear it. Could someone try it out and let me know? Otherwise, I'll have to try it out on the 03 SI coz' this dealership had 2 02 SI left and both of them made the same sound.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I have the same sound, but I would say it is normal. I have driven nothing but manual trans and all have made a typical ocilating whine in reverse.
    (Knock on wood) my car has been very tight! No buzzez except the right rear speaker ( pop cover off with small screw driver and tighten down the screws) and my driver seat when turning right pops. wierd but nothing to scream about.
    Happy motoring and keep those RPM's below 4K!
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    Just returning the courtesy, unless you are Ms. or Mrs. GreenGuy :)

    Thanks for letting me know. The last manual car I drove was an 01 Audi A4. There's no sound when I reverse. So, it was a surprised to me that the salesperson says it is a common Honda 5 speed trait. I don't believe there was a sound when I reverse the 00 S2000 I was considering. But it was drizzing and I probably didn't pay too much attention. I asked my friend who has a Prelude (98??) and he says he doesn't remember hearing any sound in his car. But he has driven only Hondas and Acuras stick. So, maybe it is ingrained in his mind already.

    But since I was coming from driving the A4 the last 2 years, it sounded strange to me.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    I only hear it when backing out of my garage (car~hole!) but its nothing to be concerned about.
    BTW it is mr.:)
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Every Honda I've ever owned makes the sound when backing up. It won't do it if you are just backing out of a parking space but when I back up my driveway or another semi-long path they make the same sound. I wouldn't worry about it a bit.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    At the dealership, upon returning from the test drive, I decided to try the reverse. I know there were problems w/ Honda/Acura auto. trans. I do realize it doesn't apply to manual trans. But I thought I'll give it a try. So, basically I was on a flat ground, windows down, radio off. Sound could be heard. So, it is not just down driveway or semi-long path. However, I backed down from my driveway (slight inclide) this morning, but w/ the radio on, windows up and garage door closing down on me, I can't really hear anything.

    But I would want to know what is causing the sound though. Saying it is normal doesn't ease my concerns. Though it may not be a problem, I would like to know what the heck it is.

    My friend who has own Honda/Acuras doesn't remember the sound I described to him. I guess if you are so intuned to hearing it, you might think it is normal. I didn't hear it in my A4. So, I asked.
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    Anyone has hard-wired a V1 to the SI yet?? I know I've been asking this many times, but I'm sure someone has to have done it, right?

    I tried to do it last night upon driving home w/ the 02 SI I bought. I decided to use the ACC Cigarette Lighter fuse location (15A). But taking this out renders the lower cigarette outlet useless. I thought maybe it is for the upper cigarette outlet which I didn't pay to get installed. I wish I had though since it would make it easier for me now to use my V1 w/ the remote display.

    But my long term solution would be to hardwire it. I've a spade type connection on the V1 hardwire kit. It doesn't really fit in the fuse slot of the SI. So, even if I want to, I can't use that fuse location.

    Any DIYers out there who has an easy way?? I would hate to take out the trim and tap into the moonroof which btw, I think is a 20A from the fuse description. But I've seen people doing it this way.

    Last thing, how easy or hard it is to buy the extra cigarette accessory and DIY for the outlet on the dash?
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    So, I sold my 01 A4 1.8T Quattro sedan and went to a front drive 02 Si 2.0 NA hatch.

    The drive home (about 60 miles) was in some light rain. I got to say I'm pretty impressed w/ the Si handling. Even w/ all season in the wet, I could take on ramp at about the same speed I usually do w/ the A4. The A4 being AWD + summer tires. So, in that aspect it is good. But as the winter months approach, I might not have as much confidence as I had w/ the A4. Will see then. Winter tires might help as I've a set for the A4.

    The ride is a little stiffer. I'm surprised. But I think I might get that impression because the cabin is not as quiet as the A4. When I'm going 80-90 driving home, I felt the car was going fast. At those speed in the A4, it didn't feel so fast. Also, I could feel irregularies on the road in the Si. I guess the A4 has better sound deadening material and insulation. But hey, the A4 cost me $28k.

    The interior lighting is not too bad. I like the orange color though I wish the contrast is a little better. And yes, I did turn it all the way up. In the A4, it is white and red lighting. It looks really cool at night coz' everything lights up red. But I can live with it.

    I was disappointed in the halogen lights on the Si compared to the auto-leveling Xenons on the A4. But it is no comparison. One is halogen and one is high intensity discharge. On dark roads, I was struggling to see. The rain didn't help matters either. Wipers were bad. Kept streaking and making noise. I guess unless you have HID, you don't realize what you are missing. Since I've had it for 2 years, it'll take me some adjusting to do. Rain-X and new wipers will help solve the wiper problems. But I've to think about the direction I'm gonna take on the headlights. HID kits are about $500-800 on the Si (I believe) or I could get bulbs (not the fake painted silver/blue ones) for about $75.

    The floormats are really nice on the Si. But I bought a set of WeatherTechs for $80 (front and rear). It was sad to see the Si wording being covered. Now, I'm looking to buy some cargo liners and some sort of cargo net. Makes it easier when I do grocery so things don't go flying around.

    And I also de-badged. A common practise among euro car drivers. I took away the Civic lettering naturally. It looks pretty neat w/ just the H and Si.

    In all, I hope this car will serve as my beater for years to come unless I can get a job closer to home. 18k/year is a little too much to put on a car (Audi) that requires EXTRA TLC.
  • wazappawazappa Member Posts: 32
    Does anyone recall what rpm you are turning at 60 or 70 mph?
  • hamproofhamproof Member Posts: 241
    Upon further reading on other installs, I've decided to tap in into an existing switch power supply. Now, the big question is which one to use? I do not want to remove too many panels and having read the instructions on removing the lower dash panel where that 1 lone cigarette outlet is, I thinking maybe I'll tap into the power wire that powers that outlet. Anyone has any thoughts on this? I also need to find a ground bolt to attach the ground wire from the V1 car kit.
  • greenguygreenguy Member Posts: 78
    @ 80mph I am at just under 4Krpm.
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