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Comments
You appear to have some dealer installed options that are difficult to assign value to because they are frequently either given away or are widely considered to be completely worthless gimmicks (sealant protection package).
You will probably get a lot of grief trying to back out of the deal at this point, but just for fun, you might consider looking at the new car pricing guide on this site, enter all of the options you purchased (less the sealant protection stuff and the other things that most folks on this site have put on their vehicles after market), then adding roughly $800 to the published INVOIVCE price of the truck. This price is attainable with no negotiations -- some on this site have done better than $800 over published invoice through hard nosed negotiation. Personally I have no stomach for such things, but the $800 over invoice internet/fleet price that I and many on this site have settled for is pretty good, and may be a couple thousand less than what you paid.
If you do the exercise, please log back in and let us know what you found and what you did about it.
license, and $45 doc. fee. $1000.00 less than all
the other internet bids from my local guys here in Orange County. It was well worth the 50 mile drive in bumper to bumper traffic. Also, no B.S. pressure of trying to sell me their finacing or extras. I highly recommend this dealership!
Since the late '80's all American automakers (the Japanese followed in the early '90's) have been making all the lower body panels out of galvanized sheet metal (except when they use plastic). This has made the 10 year rust out phenomenon that was ubiquitous in the mid-west a thing of the past.
I have an '89 F250 4x4 that has lost most of its paint and has been stored outside since I had it. It also has nearly 200K miles on it. I have used it for nothing but heavy work and recreation (beaches with boats, logging, etc.). The truck has suffered major abuse. I even cut a hole in the bed when I mounted a 5th wheel horse trailer hitch in it which has long since been removed.
The bed, roof, and those spots behind the doors that used to always rust out on all pick-up trucks have still not rusted through. Except for the hood and roof where the sun baked all of the paint off years ago, there is no rust at all. Just exposed gray galvanized steel.
If anyone out there is considering getting a undercoat of tar put on your new vehicle, don't waste your time or money (unless you just like the look of black goo overspray).
The reason I suggest that folks check out their dealer installed undercoating is that it is generally vapor ware. They warrantee it because the modern vehicles won't rust through in 10 years anyway. They have figured out that they can frequently get away without doing anything.
What other fees are added to the invoice price? Delivery fee? Doc fee? Ad fee?
Edmunds doesn't give floor mat option, but they show invoice on this vehicle as $37,600. The several dealers I've e-mailed all have invoice price at over $39K. What is the $2K difference?
thanks
Jim
This bugs me too.. Since your sending them an e-mail they should realize that you have a computer and most likely know the prices. You can e-mail them back and set your price.. Start at invoice and work your way up.. The ones that are serious will respond.. the ones that don't you don't want to know anyway. I had guys tell me.. good luck.. at $3K over invoice and other say $500 over invoice is doable. Just have to play the game..
He claims destination is an additional $35. He adds 6 gallons of gas ($15.25), port inspection ($34.65), DLR's ($32), a difference in rear spoiler price of $200, southeast regional admin fee of $575 and $500 of profit.
1. Located vehicle that I WANTED that would be coming to dealership in February. It had ALL the options that I wanted. Went in to just "look" at their stock.
2. They had an SR5 (4X2) with lots of options:
* Alloy Wheel Package #2
* Leather Package
* Sunroof
* 6 disc JBL
* Curtain Air Bags
* Tow Hitch
* Convience Package
* Keyless Entry
* Roof Rack
* Fog Lights...etc!
The MSRP was $39,953! I told them that the car was great, but that I wasn't interested in a Sunroof ($1000) or the curtain airbags ($500), but I was interested in a spoiler (right at $500). He agreed to put the spoiler on for "free" & sold the car to me at invoice.... for $35,593... The kick was that I told him I WILL PAY $36,000 for the vehicle! I don't haggle and I won't argue! If you'll sell it for this, let me know and he came back with this price $7 LESS. It was so easy I almost felt funny! I'm happy with the price and my hub says, "If we're happy than that is all that matters", but wondering what you all think! I didn't think I could find a car at invoice price, especially since they added a spoiler on!?
I love it though! Very happy with my choice so far!!!
National Base Price-----$31,625 $28,145 $29,345---------------------
Regional Adjustment--------------------------------------------------
for Zip Code Change-----$211----------------------------------------
Optional Equipment------$6,430---$5,138---$5,505---------------------
Alloy Wheel Package #2--$1,835---$1,468---$1,572---------------------
PM Preferred Package----$1,770---$1,416---$1,517---------------------
SR Sunroof--------------$1,000---$800-----$857----------------------- -
JBL 3-in-1 w/6 Disc-----$715-----$536-----$587-----------------------
Curtain and Side Airbag-$500-----$430-----$450-----------------------
CQ Convenience Package--$255-----$204-----$218-----------------------KE Keyless Entry--------$245-----$196-----$210-----------------------
Front Fog Driving Lamps-$110-----$88------$94------------------------
Color Adjustment ------ $12------------------------------------------Phantom Gray Pearl---------------------------------------------------Destinat- ion Charge------$540------$540-----$540--------------------
Total with Options------$38,595--$33,823--$35,167--------------------
You paid true market value according to Edmunds.
Window Sticker is $41,718
options:pm, ag(#2), sr, gy, cq, ke, dr, lf, rl
Edmunds comes in about $500 over the window sticker($42,205) and I cannot figure out why--
The prices I have gotten are $38,969 and $37,961 plus TTL.
Any advice would be great--Thanks
None of the dealerships around here have any Sequoias on the lot. This means that they cannot well serve the impulse buyers that visit the dealership on a whim and want to buy one for $2,000 off of list price with some floor mats thrown in. You are not an impulse buyer (or perhaps your impulses are long lived and well thought out). Having no stock for the impulse buyer is a problem for them. If everyone was like us (research vehicles, determine a price, and simply buy a truck with no assistance from a salesman) the auto manufacturers would sell all of their vehicles over the internet and we would pickup the vehicles from regional distribution centers.
For the truck that I just bought, I paid the deposit in late September, and didn’t hear from the dealership again until they confirmed that my truck and made it on to the production schedule in November. Then I got antsy in late December and called the dealership – they had nothing to tell me. They then called in early January and told me that the drop dead date for delivery was January 25 (strange because this was a Sunday and the dealership is closed). I called back last week, and they told me that there was a delay, but I would receive the truck before the end of the month. They called me on Friday last week with the VIN number, but no word on the delivery. They then called my yesterday morning and told me that we could go pick up the truck.
We went in yesterday, and in two hours they told me how everything on the truck works (less the more complicated aspects of the AWD system and temperature controls, etc.), we took a test drive, paid the balance, and were on our way.
I drove the truck to work in the snow this morning, and it was fun.
Pay them the deposit and wait for the truck to be delivered. If they haven’t or won’t take your deposit, then they are probably trying to get out of the deal. Otherwise, if you are paying them more than invoice, they have nothing to lose, but may not want to take a truck off of the lot that they could otherwise make a couple thousand more on from an impulse buyer.
With regard to finance or lease, I have some personal opinions on this. I am an officer of an S corporation with only two share holders (myself and an old friend). My partner an I have a very good relationship and bend the company to benefit us individually as we see fit (home office expenses, boondoggles at company expense, etc.). Based on your previous posts, I assume that you are either a sole proprietorship, an LLC, or sole shareholder of an S corp. Probably one of the first two because there would be no reason to be an S corporation without more shareholders.
When we first started the company in ’94 we investigated with our accountant the idea of company owned cars (leases or outright purchase). The issue as explained to us was that many of the loop holes that were used in the past were patched up in the ’87 revamp of the tax law. The issue is that company cars are owned by the company. Personal use of them is considered non-monetary compensation that must (or should) be accounted for. If I use my personal vehicle for company business I expense the mileage at the currently posted government approved mileage rate, which would reimburse me for a vehicle like the Sequoia in roughly 100,000 miles. If the company owns the vehicle we have to carry it as a depreciating asset (we can immediately expense the taxes and other expenses incurred in the initial purchase), and we still have to keep credible records (particularly for a vehicle like a Sequoia Limited versus a base F-150 with no radio, etc.) to indicate that the 15,000 miles that were logged on the vehicle were primarily applied to company business (and driving to and from work is not a valid company expense even for an officer). Any mileage not attributable to company business has to be accounted for in my personal tax return as compensation, probably at the same rate as the expense mileage rate – I’m not sure how this would work.
If the company leases the vehicle, the lease is completely expensed, but I still have to keep records to indicate that it is used almost exclusively for company business. I know sole proprietors who do this, but they spend their days dreaming up business reasons to go to Spooner, WI or Florida with their families, and frequently even stop into a shop or pick up some little part while there so that they can demonstrate the business purpose to the IRS. They even do this stuff for every shopping trip their wives take in the vehicle. Some of them talk about it like it is actually fun, but in an audit it would seem like a headache to me. Audits are not fun or fast even when all of your records are completely legitimate.
I prefer to keep the business completely separate from my personal finances to the degree possible. This makes my personal tax returns clean, simple, and free of audit triggers. My personal situation is that my car use for business purposes is less than 10% of the total vehicle mileage. On a good year, I may expense $3,000 to $6,000 of personal car mileage to the company. This is not enough to legitimately justify a company owned vehicle.
If you are contemplating leasing the vehicle, read the lease terms carefully. The MBAs that dream up the leases are not stupid. They are designed to make money for the finance company and to limit downside risk. They charge an extremely high premium for miles over the miles specified in the terms of the lease. After the lease expires, you don’t own the vehicle, and the purchase price (should you wish to keep the truck) are set by the lease. Again, this is a difficult thing to balance into your planned use of the truck over the term of the lease. I would consider a lease only under the following conditions:
I fully intend to use the primarily for legitimate company business (at least 50%).
My Business is predictable enough to make a good estimate of how many miles I will put on the truck over the term of the lease.
I don’t want the truck after the lease is expired.
With all of these factors satisfied, I would feel good about using the truck without worrying too much about scheduled maintenance, then unloading it at the end of the lease and getting something new.
I like to own my cars, maintain them well, and keep them until they are nearly completely worthless. Then maybe I will give them to my kids.
But don't feel too bad - I have read stories where people have made 60 payments on a car "loan" only to find out that 5 years ago they really signed a lease agreement and that if they want to buy the car they need to pay thousands of dollars more. The dealership uses a contract that they wrote - who do you think it is going to protect?
I always ask if I can have some time alone to read over the paperwork - I also bring a calculator and run the numbers myself. One time I added up the numbers and it was $50 off. I pointed this out - but on the pre-printed contract - in print so small I did not even notice it - document fee $50.
We could sure use some advice, our lease is up on our Expedition in 2 weeks! Thanks!
At those prices go with the dealer who gives the best service or is closest to your house, or whom you have delt with before.
Like I said its not always about the money, the dealer has to make money to stay in business, but their reputation in the community, their service after sale, and their willingness to work with you and not "hide or mislead" you thru the purchase is important. I would feel bad if I worked a salesman for hours to get the best price then went next door and asked the other dealer to beat this price and in five minutes he did for $100. Who deserves the sale???
Financing that $100 over the life of the loan is insignificant.
Sorry don't mean to ramble but the best price is not always the best deal.
In my situation, I spent a total of about 2 hours with one dealership, along with many e-mails. The Internet Manager happens to be a friend of mine from high school, although I had not seen him in 10 years. This is a high volume dealership near me. I later learned that a friend of a friend was part owner of a dealership about 40 minutes away. The volume dealership's offer was about $1000 over invoice, no mention of doc fees which I assume would have been about $300, and then offered me a pitance on my trade.
In the meantime, I talked to the owner, he said $500 over invoice, no other fees. I am going to sell me car on my own. He said he would do a courtesy trade to help on sales tax, but I may not do that so that he does not have any liability if something goes wrong with my car after the sale. Finally, he said if my car sells before the Sequoia comes in he would give me something to drive until it does come in.
What did I do? I elected to buy from the dealer 40 minutes away. Yes I may have gotten the volume dealer to meet the price, and yes I had spent time with them, but I appreciated the level of service and commitment I felt that I got by dealing with the owner. I will probably have most minor service done in town so that did not matter, I just liked the way the owner handled the situation.
I suppose that I could have gotten the 2 dealers pitted against each other, but like you said, at this point the last $200 is probably not worth that.
decide to go see the Sequoia LTD at the local Toyota dealer in Myrtle Beach.. MSRP 48381.. buy price 45621.. that's 94%...are they on drugs or what... then I ask about the $1000 Cash Back on Sequoias.. it's right on the Toyota site.. he says there is none.. not nice.. the Toyota site shows invoice prices ruff-lee 89.7% of MSRP... figuring adding in their ripoff Advertising fees of about 300-500 so the dealer is trying to rip me off for more than 4% over invoice .. or about $2200+ .. he must get people in there falling off sweet potato trucks..
he then gives me a 36 month lease price of $727.. with a Lease rate of 3.34%.. yeah right.. residual is 55% but he said he can only base it on 46700 of the 48381 MSRP..that's a new one for me.. so right away I know he built in some ADP( addition dealer profit) that Toyota won't let him use ...
all the above prices are without Taxes, tags, etc...
we decided to drive a 2wd Limited version as no 4wd's on the lot... nice but nothing special.. same-same as an Expedition in our opinion....
we now have two '01 Subn 4wd's.. had a 99 Subn also had a '97 Expedition...plus a couple of Limited Explorers before that...all 4wd's .. so we know what to look for...and how to deal especially on how to figure lease prices..
after that non-experience, I sent out a couple of emails to other dealers for prices on Sequoias .. one in Wilmington, NC and one in Charleston, SC.. we'll see what develops..
we laughed as I walked out the showroom.... a wasted day..
I'll give that dealer in Raleigh an email for a price... .I'm only 3 hrs away down here near Myrtle..don't know where you are in NY..lived on Long Island for 43 years before retiring and transplanting here 14 years ago.... used to deal with Riverhead Toyota.. probably not enuff competition down this way... most are the 'only game in town'...
I stand corrected from the Toyota site.. in small print in the addendum they list the $1K rebate for the 2003 Sequoia Limited not the 2004...
We've just started negotiating with local dealers to acquire a 4x4 ltd here in the houston metro area. Am willing to wait for the right truck at the right price and would travel if neccessary.
TMV shows $27,509 trade, $29,102 private sale, $32,224 dealer retail.
We stopped at a Cadillac dealer in Florida, and when he told me the best he could do was $28k I struggled not to smile. I chewed him down another $500, played stupid on the silly $499 "dealer fee" (included in the $28k), and decided not to push my luck any further.
They had gotten the truck in the night before as a trade in for an Escalade, and it hadn't been prepped for resale yet. I have to take it back to get it detailed, etc. They did not want the Toyota on their lot, and it was due to be shipped to a local Toyota dealer the next day.
Was the last day in February...guess they still had to get their numbers for the month. I will never shop for a car on another day of the month again. heh