Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

graphicguy

stickguy

Very snazzy. I like it. Colors too.

Kirstie_H

@GG - I just popped in to see if you still need help, and happy to see you've figured it out. I like the exterior, but the interior shot and your description of the somewhat over-the-top features has me drooling. It seems like Cadillac has really done a great job of catering to the buyer who appreciates the luxury features.

graphicguy

Kirstie....I knew that electric cup holder feature would put you in a state of ecstasy......

ab348

Damn! My ATS doesn't have electric cup holders. Maybe I'll have to upgrade at trade-in time...

I"ll be interested in your reactions to CUE. I thought I would hate it, but so far I actually like it.

Beautiful car. If I could afford one I would have gotten one. I love the interior colors in yours. I see Caddy has a new blue paint this year, an attractive dark blue color I saw yesterday on the lot when I picked up my car. I see they also changed the white from the former gold metal flake to what I guess is a silver flake - it looks like a pearl white, rather frosty.

jayrider

After seeing the pics on the Cadillacs, my Buick told me that's what it wants to be when it grows up. Just put new carpet, hardwood and shutters in my house so he is willing to be patient. Congrats to all the happy new owners.

bwia

graphicguy said:

Hard to really tell in pictures how well these are assembled and how high quality the materials are. Wood, suede, sculpted aluminum, leather, real double French stitching abound. Even the automatic shifter feels like you are moving it through silk. While a little overboard (OK, a lot overboard), even the cup holder cover is motorized...you know, in case you're so feeble you can't open or close it without assistance.

Smells like new....very intoxicating

mako1a

This place is really going upscale. Used to be Hondas, Fords and Hyundais. Now we're into Caddys, Benzes and actually leaving BMWs behind like leftovers at a Turkey Day table.

driver100

driver100

abacomike

Beautiful car, driver.  I wish many years of enjoyment.

Welcome to the club.

stickguy

Nice looking car Driver. Very stylish interior. And I like the house too.

Man, am I going to feel left out in a couple of months when I bring home a stripped out compact because it was cheap!

graphicguy

Driver....ooohhhh, baby!

ab348

Not bad, Driver, not bad...

explorerx4

@stickguy, You are in a different part of your life. I'm few years ahead of you, both kids recently graduated from college, but I wouldn't trade it for any of those new cars, although they are all greats cars.

[Deleted User]

Very nice, Driver. I hope you enjoy every minute of ownership.

I was surprised to see you have tags already. Canada DMV must operate much more efficiently than Colorado.

stickguy

I'm just sorry I didn't force the duaghter to take up field hockey in middle school and devote all her time from that. 1/2 the team in her HS gets a scholarship.

explorerx4

@stickguy, One of my daughters loved field hockey and was really good as a crew rower, but she decided that school came first, so a varsity sport was out. She played 4 years of field hockey on a club level in college and loved it.

houdini1

graphicguy said:

Kirstie....I knew that electric cup holder feature would put you in a state of ecstasy......

Congrats GG, beautiful car. Enjoy !

houdini1

ab348 said:

Damn! My ATS doesn't have electric cup holders. Maybe I'll have to upgrade at trade-in time...

I"ll be interested in your reactions to CUE. I thought I would hate it, but so far I actually like it.

Beautiful car. If I could afford one I would have gotten one. I love the interior colors in yours. I see Caddy has a new blue paint this year, an attractive dark blue color I saw yesterday on the lot when I picked up my car. I see they also changed the white from the former gold metal flake to what I guess is a silver flake - it looks like a pearl white, rather frosty.

Very nice car AB. Congratulations and enjoy !

driver100

Thanks guys - much appreciated.

Out IT person came and got my music transferred and the garage door openers working. Also hooked up our U.S. cell phone because we took it to the dealers. He also took the pictures and put them on Edmunds for me - I cheated

Ty, when we bought the car on August 12th they took all the paperwork for licenses and insurance. Basically, we signed a few papers, went to the "new car delivery area" for a lesson, and drove away. Salesman said if we financed there would be about20 papers we signed. We could put $5000 on VISA so we could get air miles, and the rest a bank draft.

They didn't load the onboard manual. Salesman said he would come to the house in the morning, but, I said I would bring it in. Free car washes Mon to Sat from 9 to 6.

My wife got $100 gift certificate to use at their spa....I asked if I could use it...hmmmm.
She said she isn't going to use it, it's just a trapto get you to spend way more than that.

houdini1

driver100 said:

Beautiful car driver. I love that upright stance.

nyccarguy

@driver100‌

Mazel-Tov on your beautiful, new E400 4Matic. I do love it in white. That's your home in Canada? Where is the snow?

@abacomike‌

It really stinks that your car came in with features missing. But your dealer and MBUSA seem to be doing everything they can to ensure your happiness. They are treating you how each one of us would want to be treated if we were in the same situation.

@graphicguy‌

Well, well, well. Congratulations my friend. I know you know a great car and a screaming deal when you see it. I hope your Caddy ownership experience is just as excellent as your Acura and BMW ownership experiences have been. If you post on CCBA, that'll give us 30 punches on the year!

venture

THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT

I was picking the kids up at school today and was talking to a friend who lives near the school while waiting for the little monsters to be released.

He said he just got a truck to haul their camper. It was sitting along the curb behind their convertible. A 2014 RAM 1500 Hemi. He bought it at a local used car place that sells over 800 vehicles a month.

His wife came out and said they were going to buy a new 2014 Ford F150, but ran into a snag at the Ford dealer.

Now here's the weird part. She said they had a price negotiated which was awesome what with end of year pricing, customer cash, etc. When they told the saleslady that they were not trading in their convertible nor financing the truck, the price went up $3,000.

That's when they left and bought the RAM.

That doesn't sound right. I have a friend who works at that Ford store so I'm going to ask him tomorrow what really happened.

Comments?

jwilliams2

Some really nice cars, both the Cadillac and the Mercedes. Congratulations, GG, Driver, and Mike. Enjoy them!

abacomike

venture said:

THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT I was picking the kids up at school today and was talking to a friend who lives near the school while waiting for the little monsters to be released. He said he just got a truck to haul their camper. It was sitting along the curb behind their convertible. A 2014 RAM 1500 Hemi. He bought it at a local used car place that sells over 800 vehicles a month. His wife came out and said they were going to buy a new 2014 Ford F150, but ran into a snag at the Ford dealer. Now here's the weird part. She said they had a price negotiated which was awesome what with end of year pricing, customer cash, etc. When they told the saleslady that they were not trading in their convertible nor financing the truck, the price went up $3,000. That's when they left and bought the RAM. That doesn't sound right. I have a friend who works at that Ford store so I'm going to ask him tomorrow what really happened. Comments?

Sounds about right to me - for a typical cutthroat US dealership!!!  

The dealership probably was counting on making at least $2000 on the trade and another $1000 or so on back-end finance profit on the loan (add 1 or 2 points to the interest buy rate).  When that disappeared, they had to make it up somewhere - like add $3000 to the price!

OOPS!

stickguy

well, the financing aspect could be some sort of FMC credit for financing that they no longer qualified for. The convertible, only way that makes sense is if they got wires crossed, thought it was being traded in, and had a lowball on that factored in. though I suppose they could also have written the deal with an inflated APR and took that profit out too.

dealers just make it so much harder on themselves trying to play shell games. You wonder how many deals they lose, and if the times they take a patsy to the cleaners makes up for it.

venture

Sounds about right to me - for a typical cutthroat US dealership!!!  

The dealership probably was counting on making at least $2000 on the trade and another $1000 or so on back-end finance profit on the loan (add 1 or 2 points to the interest buy rate).  When that disappeared, they had to make it up somewhere - like add $3000 to the price!

OOPS!

I see how that could happen then Mike. Sounds like someone was counting their chickens too soon. I know they would never consider trading the convertible. It's "her car" and she loves it. I know these people very well and they would never indicate that they were going to trade and then pull it out of the deal at the last minute.

Cutthroat sounds about right. (Hopefully I get this quote thing right some day. Not today, but some day...lol)

graphicguy

Thanks Bradd and Houdini!

AB.....interesting about CUE. When Cadillac had one of those "here's a gift card, cone drive our cars" last year I drove an ATS with CUE. It was slow to respond, although it did have beautiful graphics, great voice recognition and simple controls. I liked the haptic feedback.

Not sure what they did, but this version of CUE is much snappier. I liked iDrive in my BMW, MMI in the Audi was a bit behind the BMW. The SYNCH I tried briefly in the Lincoln a couple of weeks ago was better, but needs one more revision to compete. Acura may not go with tne clean look with their interfaces, but everything always works.

I will say that CUE voice recognition is so accurate, I'm hardly using any money.

So far, that's my impression. CUE is at the forefront of these types of systems, and I haven't yet explored ½ of what it can do, yet. Seems easy to,use so far, though.

stickguy

venture said:

Sounds about right to me - for a typical cutthroat US dealership!!!  

The dealership probably was counting on making at least $2000 on the trade and another $1000 or so on back-end finance profit on the loan (add 1 or 2 points to the interest buy rate).  When that disappeared, they had to make it up somewhere - like add $3000 to the price!

OOPS!

I see how that could happen then Mike. Sounds like someone was counting their chickens too soon. I know they would never consider trading the convertible. It's "her car" and she loves it. I know these people very well and they would never indicate that they were going to trade and then pull it out of the deal at the last minute.

Cutthroat sounds about right. (Hopefully I get this quote thing right some day. Not today, but some day...lol)

easy to do. On the post you want to quote, just click "quote". Make sure that the cursor is on a new line after the last blockquote and type away.

I think you got into problems with quoting a quoted post. If the little codies get screwed up, you lose the blue box.

venture

I tried that. It ended up just like yours.

stickguy

well, I fixed mine. Just had to take out the extra blockquote tags. I think one of the earlier posts got out of whack. pretty sure if you hit quote on this "clean" one it would come out fine.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Man, am I going to feel left out in a couple of months when I bring home a stripped out compact because it was cheap!

Hey, don't forget about me and my base model subcompact.

venture

stickguy said:

well, I fixed mine. Just had to take out the extra blockquote tags. I think one of the earlier posts got out of whack. pretty sure if you hit quote on this "clean" one it would come out fine.

Let's see how this is.

That's better.

stickguy

You have the mustang to make up for it. I actually like that idea at some point. Something basic/cheap (new or used) and a toy for the good weather and fun use.

Stopped and drove a 2008 Stang convertible Saturday (I posted link last week). Drove OK. Wife said it smelled funny (musty maybe). Did not excite me enough to lay out money. I am leery of committing to a convertible as my only car, so will probably hold off on that idea until it is time for a toy.

venture

stickguy said:

well, the financing aspect could be some sort of FMC credit for financing that they no longer qualified for. The convertible, only way that makes sense is if they got wires crossed, thought it was being traded in, and had a lowball on that factored in. though I suppose they could also have written the deal with an inflated APR and took that profit out too.

dealers just make it so much harder on themselves trying to play shell games. You wonder how many deals they lose, and if the times they take a patsy to the cleaners makes up for it.

I went to the Ford site to look at the incentives. Wow! There's a lot of them for the 2014's. Hard to figure out, but I didn't see any Ford Finance money. Not that it's not there, but I didn't see it.

I'm sure they qualified for some of the other trunk money. The salesperson should have explained it to them, but $3,000??

I'll get the real scoop tomorrow.

abacomike

@venture‌

FMC, GM, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc., will advertise a 1.99% or 2.99% interest rate for highly qualified buyers.  In reality, the buy rate is at least 1% lower than the advertised rate.  I am sure of this since my experience in the car business has given me this insight after seeing it firsthand for many years.  

Let's say a buyer takes out a 60 month loan of $20,000 at 2.49%.  The dealership earns 1%.  That is $1000 back-end profit.  Often, more will be borrowed or the dealer bumps the rate another 1/2 percent.

As for the salesperson explaining it?  That rarely happens.  It's the withholding of information or downright "lying" that angers me about the typical run-of-the-mill dealership.

I have been quite lucky to have found a dealership that levels with me on every aspect of buying a car.  I am informed of the net buy rate of money if I want to finance, the net vehicle cost, actual wholesale values of trades (which they always add 1,000 - 2,000 dollars), and am kept in the loop rather than out of the loop.

But your friend's experiences are not uncommon in this business.  Dealership management will do everything it can to make as big a profit as possible even if it means lying through their teeth.

I don't understand how buyers can go into a dealership thinking that everything is on the up and up,

That's why I like Edmunds.  At least you can go into a dealership with enough ammunition to walk out with a reasonably good deal on a new car.

roadburner

stickguy said:

That's a prestigious name. Like bose. People know it and associate it with high quality, expensive stuff. Even if it is a lower end product the name still carries weight

You mean "No highs, no lows- it MUST be Bose?"

stickguy

didn't say it was good. Just that large numbers of non-audiophiles have heard of it, know it is expensive, and assume it is good stuff.

oldfarmer50

"..2014 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD, Obsession Red Tintcoat, black interior, sunroof, polished wheels, CUE, surround sound Bose. Awesome car so far. Smaller than the Buick and not as practical in terms of space, but it seems to fit me well and drives wonderfully. I always wanted to have a Cadillac some day and now I do. ."

Beautiful color on that car. Your purchase should get GG motivated to get his own. Maybe you can get together and race.

venture

abacomike said:

@venture‌

FMC, GM, Chrysler, Mercedes, etc., will advertise a 1.99% or 2.99% interest rate for highly qualified buyers.  In reality, the buy rate is at least 1% lower than the advertised rate.  I am sure of this since my experience in the car business has given me this insight after seeing it firsthand for many years.  

Let's say a buyer takes out a 60 month loan of $20,000 at 2.49%.  The dealership earns 1%.  That is $1000 back-end profit.  Often, more will be borrowed or the dealer bumps the rate another 1/2 percent.

As for the salesperson explaining it?  That rarely happens.  It's the withholding of information or downright "lying" that angers me about the typical run-of-the-mill dealership.

I have been quite lucky to have found a dealership that levels with me on every aspect of buying a car.  I am informed of the net buy rate of money if I want to finance, the net vehicle cost, actual wholesale values of trades (which they always add 1,000 - 2,000 dollars), and am kept in the loop rather than out of the loop.

But your friend's experiences are not uncommon in this business.  Dealership management will do everything it can to make as big a profit as possible even if it means lying through their teeth.

I don't understand how buyers can go into a dealership thinking that everything is on the up and up,

That's why I like Edmunds.  At least you can go into a dealership with enough ammunition to walk out with a reasonably good deal on a new car.

You are fortunate to have found a dealer who treats you like that. Of course you know how all that stuff works. Most people are lambs who go to meet with the lions when it comes time to buy a vehicle.

The dealer should make a profit or, obviously, they wouldn't be in business very long. I think, and maybe I'm wrong, that most reasonable people would understand and agree that money has to be made. The more information the customer can get, assuming they even care, would lead to fewer surprises, less hurt feelings and more sales.

bwia

driver100 said:

Congrats and nice car. The interior is gorgeous, angular and clean. The flat bottom steering wheel is different but elegant. Enjoy!

driver100

nyccarguy said:

@driver100‌

Mazel-Tov on your beautiful, new E400 4Matic. I do love it in white. That's your home in Canada? Where is the snow?

Thanks for Mazel-Tov wishes! I just tried the "quote" feature as explained...we'll see if I got it. Yes, that's our Canadian home and it was unusually warm for late October...70 F (20 Celsius). Today it will be back to normal, around 50F. Our weather is similar to yours, but you seem to get more snow than we do each year.

It was hard to find a ranch style house in this area, but, we found one that was just built in a mature neighborhood. We had to stretch the budget, 6 years ago, but glad we did. Houses here are up about 20% from that time....it would be hard for us to buy this house today.

I am never sorry I bought a new car or a new house....though there were always sleepless nights wondering how we would pay for them when we did buy them.

driver100

venture said:

THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT

Now here's the weird part. She said they had a price negotiated which was awesome what with end of year pricing, customer cash, etc. When they told the saleslady that they were not trading in their convertible nor financing the truck, the price went up $3,000.

Comments?

I don't know if the dealer was entirely in the wrong. Is it possible these people led the dealer to believe they were trading in their car, and they were going to finance the truck?....or, possibly the dealer assumed they would do that. These nice people may have misled the salesperson too, or done a bait and switch themselves.

Sometimes money off has to come from somewhere. There may be $1000s off, but higher finance rate or lower trade-in amounts. My guess is most people probably don't know what an extra 1% could add up to over time, and most people have no idea what their trade in is really worth.

nyccarguy

My best friend's Dad is buying an S550 4matic. He's owned a number of Mercedes over the years starting with a 1989 420 SEL. He has pretty much bought all of them, except for 1 at the dealership closest to his house. For a number of years, he dealt with the dealership's General manager who always took care of him and did the right thing (Give him good money for his trade, gave him a spectacular deal on the new car...). My friend's Dad serviced the car there exclusively too. The GM of the MB dealership did such a good job there that he was transferred to their group's BMW store.

Then the MB dealership changed ownership, The service department wasn't as good and got A LOT more expensive.

The lease is up on his current 2012 S550 4Matic and he went into the dealership (where he now knows nobody) to buy a new 2014 (or 2015, whatever is out now).

"This new S-Class is a hot car. The best I can do for you is $1500 off sticker."

"OK, the car has really gotten expensive over the years and even this one is MUCH more expensive than my current leased S550. I'm really going to have to think about what I want to do. Maybe I'll buy out my current lease or switch to another brand."

So he went and drove an A8L. Liked it A LOT, it was MUCH cheaper than the S, but ultimately didn't LOVE it.

Just for kicks, he went to another dealer in NJ (not too far from his house). They offer him $7500 off sticker. He's floored. He can't believe the difference in price. He's also kinda POd because the dealer he's been doing business with for so many years told him they could only give him $1500 off sticker.

So he calls back the dealer closest to his house. Tells the sales guy he's dealing with that he wants to talk to the manager. Manager gets on the phone. My friend's Dad is nice to the guy, but very stern and tells him to look up on the computer how many cars I've bought from you (as well as my son and my daughter). I got a much better price from the dealer in NJ. Don't make me buy the car there.

The manager from his local MB dealership calls him back.

"Take the car by the end of the month."

He gives him a price of $3500 less than the dealership in NJ.

venture

driver100 said:

venture said:

THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT

Now here's the weird part. She said they had a price negotiated which was awesome what with end of year pricing, customer cash, etc. When they told the saleslady that they were not trading in their convertible nor financing the truck, the price went up $3,000.

Comments?

I don't know if the dealer was entirely in the wrong. Is it possible these people led the dealer to believe they were trading in their car, and they were going to finance the truck?....or, possibly the dealer assumed they would do that. These nice people may have misled the salesperson too, or done a bait and switch themselves.

Sometimes money off has to come from somewhere. There may be $1000s off, but higher finance rate or lower trade-in amounts. My guess is most people probably don't know what an extra 1% could add up to over time, and most people have no idea what their trade in is really worth.

They didn't lead the dealer to believe they were going to trade nor did they say they were going to finance the truck. I already mentioned that. If the saleslady assumed that, she shouldn't have. Many people who sell cars, at least some of the ones I know, are nice people and pretty smart. Then there are the others.

I doubt very much they misled the dealer at all or did a bait and switch.

Take a few minutes and look at the incentives on 2014 Fords. It's enough to cross your eyes.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

"..2014 Cadillac ATS 2.0T AWD, Obsession Red Tintcoat, black interior, sunroof, polished wheels, CUE, surround sound Bose. Awesome car so far. Smaller than the Buick and not as practical in terms of space, but it seems to fit me well and drives wonderfully. I always wanted to have a Cadillac some day and now I do. ."

Beautiful color on that car. Your purchase should get GG motivated to get his own. Maybe you can get together and race.

Thanks OF. I don't think GG needed any motivation from me given the incredible deal he got on his CTS. Now we just need to get your Eclipse sold so you can join in the fun.

graphicguy

NYC....see, you're sales story points out something I've always felt, if a dealer wants to play games on the buying end, they're going to play games on the servicing end, and certainly on the trade=in end. Why do business with them. I understand they're local, but still, why trust them?

As most of you know, I went all the way to Chicago from Cincinnait to buy any Audi. While the car itself was a headache, the dealer and the deal I got, was not. There was a $4K delta in price from the Chicago dealer vs the two Cincinnati Audi dealers. To me, that's worth the 5.5hour trip.

I relayed my dealership experience with the Caddy dealer closest to me. The owner started out about 30 years ago with a small, rural Chevy dealer. His tag like was "Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country". Must have worked out because now he has at least 5 stores he operates, in addition to the original Chevrolet store.

Since he has a Nissan dealer right next to the Cadillac store, I've tried a couple of times to deal with him on a Z car. It's been awhile, but he had a sweet Nismo Z I liked when I was shopping for my BMW a few years ago. Color was right, manual trans, etc.

I walk in. You know the feeling when you're in a grinder store, sales guys hanging around near the driveway getting in your face as soon as you pull into the lot. Guy is nice enough. Asks how he can help. I told him about the Z I was interested in. We go look at it.. I ask if I want to drive it (I do). He comes back with the Sales Manger. Understand, I'm far from being a teen, or even a 20 something, OK even a 30 something. In short, this isn't my first rodeo.

Sales Manger tells me since it's a Z, they need a deposit before I can test drive it.


Really?

Maybe if I was an 18 year old, I can see some joy riding. I thank them for their time, and begin to walk away. SM asks, don't you want to test drive it? No! You want me to put money down on a car that neither of us know if I even like it. You know where this is going. They wave the deposit.

I still take the test drive. Fun car. But, I was also looking at the BMW coupe, too. Again, without trying to find out if I even like the car, I'm informed since it's a Nismo, there is a $3K ADM sticker on it (yep, sure was). They're willing to wave it if I buy it today.

At that, I got into my car and left, but not before I was practically chased down the driveway. Sales person called me every day for the next 10 days (at which point, he probably quit the dealership). I don't blame him. It's a training thing with some of these dealerships. They train them that way.

Their Cadillac store isn't too different from that time. They did the can't find the trade in keys. I thought that trick was put to pasture.

I don't blame the sales people. It's the way the dealership is run, and the way they're managed to do things. I guess it still works. The owner has plenty of stores.

I'm hoping the Tesla sales model, or at least parts of it, will take hold. I just read that to get around the archaic dealership protests, Tesla car owners are offering test drives of their cars to prospective buyers (no doubt with some form of compensation from Tesla).

roadburner

graphicguy said:

NYC....see, you're sales story points out something I've always felt, if a dealer wants to play games on the buying end, they're going to play games on the servicing end, and certainly on the trade=in end. Why do business with them. I understand they're local, but still, why trust them?

As most of you know, I went all the way to Chicago from Cincinnait to buy any Audi. While the car itself was a headache, the dealer and the deal I got, was not. There was a $4K delta in price from the Chicago dealer vs the two Cincinnati Audi dealers. To me, that's worth the 5.5hour trip.

I relayed my dealership experience with the Caddy dealer closest to me. The owner started out about 30 years ago with a small, rural Chevy dealer. His tag like was "Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country". Must have worked out because now he has at least 5 stores he operates, in addition to the original Chevrolet store.

Since he has a Nissan dealer right next to the Cadillac store, I've tried a couple of times to deal with him on a Z car. It's been awhile, but he had a sweet Nismo Z I liked when I was shopping for my BMW a few years ago. Color was right, manual trans, etc.

I walk in. You know the feeling when you're in a grinder store, sales guys hanging around near the driveway getting in your face as soon as you pull into the lot. Guy is nice enough. Asks how he can help. I told him about the Z I was interested in. We go look at it.. I ask if I want to drive it (I do). He comes back with the Sales Manger. Understand, I'm far from being a teen, or even a 20 something, OK even a 30 something. In short, this isn't my first rodeo.

Sales Manger tells me since it's a Z, they need a deposit before I can test drive it.

That is exactly what happened to me at the Louisville Mazda dealer in 2007; they had an ADM sticker on all of their MS3s and wouldn't let you drive one without a signed buyer's order. Granted, at that time the car was very hot, but It's not like it's a Veyron. I wound up buying my MS3 from Kings Mazda in Cincinnati for MSRP, but they didn't charge me for trucking in the car I wanted from Cleveland, and I get free 5K mile oil changes for as long as I own the car. Best of all, the Kings sales and service staff are first-rate and have always treated me with respect. By the way, the other big Mazda dealer in Cincy was playing the same test drive deposit game.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

graphicguy said:

NYC....see, you're sales story points out something I've always felt, if a dealer wants to play games on the buying end, they're going to play games on the servicing end, and certainly on the trade=in end. Why do business with them. I understand they're local, but still, why trust them?

As most of you know, I went all the way to Chicago from Cincinnait to buy any Audi. While the car itself was a headache, the dealer and the deal I got, was not. There was a $4K delta in price from the Chicago dealer vs the two Cincinnati Audi dealers. To me, that's worth the 5.5hour trip.

I relayed my dealership experience with the Caddy dealer closest to me. The owner started out about 30 years ago with a small, rural Chevy dealer. His tag like was "Cars, like eggs, are cheaper in the country". Must have worked out because now he has at least 5 stores he operates, in addition to the original Chevrolet store.

Since he has a Nissan dealer right next to the Cadillac store, I've tried a couple of times to deal with him on a Z car. It's been awhile, but he had a sweet Nismo Z I liked when I was shopping for my BMW a few years ago. Color was right, manual trans, etc.

I walk in. You know the feeling when you're in a grinder store, sales guys hanging around near the driveway getting in your face as soon as you pull into the lot. Guy is nice enough. Asks how he can help. I told him about the Z I was interested in. We go look at it.. I ask if I want to drive it (I do). He comes back with the Sales Manger. Understand, I'm far from being a teen, or even a 20 something, OK even a 30 something. In short, this isn't my first rodeo.

Sales Manger tells me since it's a Z, they need a deposit before I can test drive it.

That is exactly what happened to me at the Louisville Mazda dealer in 2007; they had an ADM sticker on all of their MS3s and wouldn't let you drive one without a signed buyer's order. Granted, at that time the car was very hot, but It's not like it's a Veyron. I wound up buying my MS3 from Kings Mazda in Cincinnati for MSRP, but they didn't charge me for trucking in the car I wanted from Cleveland, and I get free 5K mile oil changes for as long as I own the car. Best of all, the Kings sales and service staff are first-rate and have always treated me with respect. By the way, the other big Mazda dealer in Cincy was playing the same test drive deposit game.

I think the other Mazda dealer you're speaking about is the same one who plays games at their Nissan and Caddy stores.

Love Kings, RB. I bought the first RX8 in the city (maybe the state) from them 11 years ago. Fun car. Troublesome. It would not start at different times as they were prone to flood. If you couldn't crank it to get it started, it would have to be towed and the engine pulled to physically clear the rotor chambers.

Happened a couple of times to me. They didn't even make me come to the dealership. They'd bring me a car to use wherever mine was disabled (at home for the most part) and flat bed mine to their service dept.

Mazda corporate knew they had RX8 problems, and never hesitated to take care of their customer. The Renesis rotary was supposed to have 240HP. When it finally got to the U.S., HP had dropped to something like 236HP. Not a big deal. But, Mazda offered to buy the car back at no charge to the owners, or send a $750 check, plus add another 2 years of bumper to bumper warranty.

There was a ton of speculation about the issues. Probably the most common (and probably correct assumption) was Mazda got them on the ship, and while doing PDI at the CA port, found some pollution control problems. Those initial cars were stuck at the port a long time. They had to fix them on the fly, which resulted in the drop in HP and all the drivability issues.

Kings went out of their way to soften the blow of a car that really wasn't quite ready for prime time. Loads of fun when it ran, though.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again, Fair dealer who really does care about their customers.