Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

henryn

xx

driver100 said:

explorerx4 said:

Next spring one of my kids is going to be looking for a new car. CR-V was pretty high on the list, but now it's off. Don't see the point of buying an AWD vehicle where the AWD doesn't work, or if enabled will break. Probably will look at a Subi, Escape, and Rav4. They grew up driving a CUV and that's what they like driving due to the higher seating position.

I read recent reviews for the CR-V and RAV4. Reviewer said they were fine cars, but the Escape was a lot more fun to drive.

In fairness to Honda's CR-V, that AWD was tried in one very unusual situation, probably no one has come across that situation in real life.

AWD systems do vary though. I just read a review for the A3 and they praised the car highly, said it was superior to a Mercedes CLA in many respects, the AWD Quattro system being a major one.

The "problem" with AWD on the CR-V only occurred when you had complete loss of traction to the front wheels. The software engineer who programmed this probably assumed that if you had complete, 100% loss of traction in the front wheels that you had driven off a cliff and were hanging on the edge. And in that case, I would agree. Remember the old proverb, "When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging."

The story also mentioned that this could be re-programmed, if you didn't like it. Before marking the CR-V off your list, check with the dealer.

In regards to "the Escape was a lot more fun to drive", that's true, but the CR-V provides a lot more space for the driver. If you're bigger (height or width) than the norm, the CR-V will fit you MUCH better than the Escape.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carefully assembled.
... this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.
If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

Great to hear all the good about a GM store and vehicle.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

graphicguy said:

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carefully assembled.
... this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.
If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

Great to hear all the good about a GM store and vehicle.

Give me a day or two, and I may have a bit of a counterbalance, unfortunately.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Quick update in the CTS saga......

Didn't buy anything yet. So, the good news here, the original dealership is really bending over backwards to find something I want.

I think I've established I like the way the car drives. I really like the 4 cyl turbo motor....lots more torque off the line than my TL V6 Vtech (which really doesn't start chugging until about 4K RPMs, but still is no slouch). Suspension and steering is where the car really shines. Tip of the cap to Cadillac engineers. They did a great job, out doing the other competitors in the segment in that regard.

Cadillac seems to have cleaned up the CUE glitches. It is responsive, throws up gorgeous graphics on the screen, and the voice recognition is simple to use and more accurate than anything I've ever experienced on any car.

The Bose stereo is still not the equal of the ELS in my TL. But, it sounds as good as anything else I've heard in Audis, Infinitis, Benzs or BMW.....better than most, actually.

Lots of tech......Blind spot monitoring in the side mirrors, accident avoidance (when set will automatically brake the car to prevent you rear ending another vehicle), lane keep assist, and a whole lot more. All works well. While I really don't like the nannies, and they are defeat able, Cadillac did a good job with them.

It makes more of an aggressive "growl" than the smooth sound of the Acura's motor. Not sure which is better, but they're both just different. Nothing beat the sound of the S/C V6 in my S4. But, that engine sound was "piped in via that car's stereo". So, not sure that counts.

I've been dealing mostly with the owner's son (and dealership GM). Great guy. genuinely interested in winning me back as a customer. As an aside, I asked him what had happened to the GSM who gave my late Mother and me so much grief all those years ago. While he told me some long and drawn out details, bottom line, apparently the guy was an alcoholic and prone to angry outbursts, not only with the sales guys, but also with some customers as well. I had felt he took advantage of my late Mother, and told the owner's son about his outbursts with me when I called him out on the deceptions he heaped upon my mother and the subsequent lack of support when they sold her was a lemon.

The last straw with him came after a dealership get-together in which the old GSM had been drinking too much, and went off on a curse filled tirade on the dealer's owner. GSM came in the next day and was promptly fired, but he didn't leave until he had damaged some of the cars in the showroom.

Crazy story.

That brings us to right now.

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carfeully assembled.

Owner's son has given me his daily driver.....red CTS 2.0 with tan interior, all loaded up, to see if they can find something by tomorrow.

I have not given them any money, nor have I even signed any sort of agreement stipulating if I wrecked their car, I was responsible. He just gave me his keys.

If we come to terms, this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.

If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

They're winning me over, for sure.

More tomorrow.

Oh yeah, you're buying that car.

explorerx4

@driver100,
The CR-V test was not unusual. Could happen any time you have to get over a frozen snow berm. At, this point, as far as the CR-V goes, I'm from Missouri. Honda has to prove their system works and doesn't overheat if engaged for more than a few seconds.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@driver100,
The CR-V test was not unusual. Could happen any time you have to get over a frozen snow berm. At, this point, as far as the CR-V goes, I'm from Missouri. Honda has to prove their system works and doesn't overheat if engaged for more than a few seconds.

Fair enough, but, I know of at least 3 people who have CR-Vs, and I read more information about cars than most of the population, and I have never heard of this happening in "real life".

dino001

abacomike said:

The issue is that Mercedes Benz built a car incorrectly and then, after passing quality control inspections in both Germany and at the vehicle preparation center in Brunswick Georgie, delivered it to the dealership for sale to a customer.

Mike, being engineer myself, I'm almost sure the QC process they have is multilayered, but does not involve checking everything over and over. The equipment config miss is probably a result of a specific single team miss, when wrong things were programmed into production and then signed off by supervisor, QC person. After that nobody would look at it again, they'd focus primarily on fit and finish execution and damage. Same at the port of entry. As somebody mentioned, this is likely an early model probllem, which only confirms my general policy of never buying new models of anything in early production. I never felt a need to be first kid on the block with a new toy, this only strengthens my resolve. It's a black eye, for sure, but I'd let them make it right first before writing them off. I'm a generally a forgiving person, as long as mistakes are acknowledged and timely corrected. I know, I make them, so I don't demand 100% error-free performance, but 100% error correction.

roadburner

Mike, if Mercedes is anything like BMW, US and Canadian spec models come with standard equipment that is optional in Europe- so the lack of a particular feature can be explained- but it is not excusable, in my opinion. I too would be upset if a standard feature I expected to be present was MIA.

Fortunately, this is a moot point for me; the last Mercedes I seriously considered purchasing was the 190E 2.3-16

roadburner

And file this under REALLY depressing news- my son came home from college for fall break and informed us that he is now almost certain that he wants to become a lawyer.

Where did I go wrong? I thought I had done a better job of raising him...

dino001

driver100 said:

In the meantime, I have a car under full warranty protection, so I won't have any huge payouts for some repair.....like my friend with a 2007 Mercedes ML350, that needs a $7000 transmission job.

It's the probability game. If you keep cars say couple of years beyond warranty, only one out of several will likely result in such a costly repair.

The statistics are absolutely clear - the highest cost is depreciation, not repair. The only difference is, with loans or leases, the depreciation is systematic and planned, even if infrequent and not as high in aggregate, so it doesn't hurt when paid. Repair is random and unplanned, so when it occurs, it hurts, usually much more than its actual finances, leading us to invent phoney metrics, allowing us to financially justify making new purchases and believe we are saving money. In other words, one $7000 transmission job every three or five times feels horrible and unaffordable, but $10000 in depreciation paid every purchase cycle is OK, because we have a payment plan. It's similar to situation, when investment loss hurts more than same investment gain bring joy, so we sell at the bottom and buy at the top.

BTW, a good gauge of how much one may expect to spend past warranty is cost of extended warranty. Knowing how profitable those are, the aggregate value should only be a fraction of that. So if extra two years of warranty of those luxury models cost 3 grand or so, with small deductible, even after adding maintenance, which is more for 4-6 year-old car, it's still not even close vs. new depreciation costs. The anectotal costs experienced by somebody we might know, or heard about, are surely frightening, but in aggregate it simply does not add up.

explorerx4

@driver100, We have several CR-V's at work. They don't come to work when it snows.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

In the meantime, I have a car under full warranty protection, so I won't have any huge payouts for some repair.....like my friend with a 2007 Mercedes ML350, that needs a $7000 transmission job.

It's the probability game. If you keep cars say couple of years beyond warranty, only one out of several will likely result in such a costly repair.

The statistics are absolutely clear - the highest cost is depreciation, not repair. The only difference is, with loans or leases, the depreciation is systematic and planned, even if infrequent and not as high in aggregate, so it doesn't hurt when paid. Repair is random and unplanned, so when it occurs, it hurts, usually much more than its actual finances, leading us to invent phoney metrics, allowing us to financially justify making new purchases and believe we are saving money. In other words, one $7000 transmission job every three or five times feels horrible and unaffordable, but $10000 in depreciation paid every purchase cycle is OK, because we have a payment plan. It's similar to situation, when investment loss hurts more than same investment gain bring joy, so we sell at the bottom and buy at the top.

BTW, a good gauge of how much one may expect to spend past warranty is cost of extended warranty. Knowing how profitable those are, the aggregate value should only be a fraction of that. So if extra two years of warranty of those luxury models cost 3 grand or so, with small deductible, even after adding maintenance, which is more for 4-6 year-old car, it's still not even close vs. new depreciation costs. The anectotal costs experienced by somebody we might know, or heard about, are surely frightening, but in aggregate it simply does not add up.

Briefly;

It may cost less to keep riving an older car, and chances are you will come out slightly ahead financially, but some of us like getting a new car more often.

Getting a new car every 3 or 4 years is forced savings plan for me. I won't have a huge price gap to cover, when I do need a new car.

Yes, odds are only a few people will have a huge repair bill in any given year, but not nice if it is me. I hate paying out a big lump sum with nothing really to show for it.

I calculate it may cost me $5 or $6 a year to drive a new car that is under warranty than an older car. I don't belong to a golf club, don't own a boat, I don't own a cottage, I don't drink 2 bottles of wine a day, I don't go to the track or casino,........it is my one and only sin.

Owning a newer car isn't the most economical way to go, it is just worth it to me.

stickguy

roadie, he either decided that is the way to make the most money, or he likes college so much he wanted to make sure it extends an extra 3 years. One problem with business school is you have to go to work for a few years before you can get into a good one.

Could be worse. he could have told you he was changing to a Poetry major.

stickguy

Driver, pretty much how most people justify a new car: I just want one. Numbers are cold and impersonal.

One beef I have with some of the new vs. used analysis. it ignores reliability and the hassle factor. I don't care if it is cheaper to keep fixing my old car. I don't want to have to deal with a car that I have to keep fixing, and no way in Hades am I willing to take a chance on breaking down on the highway. Of course any car could, but at a certain point it becomes a lot more likely.

jayrider

roadburner said:

And file this under REALLY depressing news- my son came home from college for fall break and informed us that he is now almost certain that he wants to become a lawyer.

Where did I go wrong? I thought I had done a better job of raising him...

Smart kid . With his brains and you as a mentor -- I like his chances in a tough arena. Congrats.

dino001

When I want a new car, I know I want it just because. I don't invent metrics to make it appear it's financially sound, because I know it's just not true. I'm in a process of wanting a new 435 Grand Coupe in place of my three years old 328 wagon. Probably in next six months. If I do that, it's going to be financial lunacy and I know it, but if/when I do it, I won't care. I would rather call it for what it is than pretend to myself that it's a great move, but that's just me. I file it under my few vices.

BTW, hassle factor is certainly important and its value is probably straight proportional to amount of disposable income one has.

stickguy

my wife has a 1 strike rule for being stranded. Goes back to the early 90s when she was driving on the highway and the crankshaft went, and she ended up in the median with a dead car waiting on a tow truck.

If that happened again today, I would have orders to replace it, because she would never trust it again.

dino001

stickguy said:

I don't want to have to deal with a car that I have to keep fixing, and no way in Hades am I willing to take a chance on breaking down on the highway. Of course any car could, but at a certain point it becomes a lot more likely.

It's certainly true, but prices of extended warranties say that up to 100k miles it's not very high. Mind you, those products have around 50 percent margins, so true expected breakdowns are quite low. I do understand aversion to hassle, but the way people talk about it is like cars with 60 thousand miles are breaking down left and right, so plows have to be dispatched to push their wreckages of roads five times a day. Oh, I can't take a chance... pleaaase. You are taking chances with much worse odds every single day, not even knowing it. I don't know statistics on that, but I would not be surprised if odds of being involved in an a serious life-threatening accident were much higher than breaking down in a car with 60 or even 80 thousand miles. If one say they can't take a chance they should stay home.

roadburner

dino001 said:

When I want a new car, I know I want it just because. I don't invent metrics to make it appear it's financially sound, because I know it's just not true. I'm in a process of wanting a new 435 Grand Coupe in place of my three years old 328 wagon. Probably in next six months. If I do that, it's going to be financial lunacy and I know it, but if/when I do it, I won't care. I would rather call it for what it is than pretend to myself that it's a great move, but that's just me. I file it under my few vices.

BTW, hassle factor is certainly important and its value is probably straight proportional to amount of disposable income one has.

I agree 100%- in 25 years I haven't had any of my cars strand me on the roadside(fingers crossed). The X3 has required two immediate repairs, but in both cases the car was over eight years old and had over 136k on the clock.

Flipping a 3-5 year old car with less than 100k miles because you need to is akin to buying a car to "save money on gas." Just admit you want a new car and don't attempt to justify it from a financial standpoint...

driver100

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

The issue is that Mercedes Benz built a car incorrectly and then, after passing quality control inspections in both Germany and at the vehicle preparation center in Brunswick Georgie, delivered it to the dealership for sale to a customer.

I never felt a need to be first kid on the block with a new toy, this only strengthens my resolve. It's a black eye, for sure, but I'd let them make it right first before writing them off. I'm a generally a forgiving person, as long as mistakes are acknowledged and timely corrected. I know, I make them, so I don't demand 100% error-free performance, but 100% error correction.

All true Dino. I do like to get a car when they first come out so I get a full years depreciation value when it is time to trade in 3 or 4 years. I would be more hesitant if it is a completely new model, though I don't think that is a huge problem these days.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@driver100, We have several CR-V's at work. They don't come to work when it snows.

You've had more experience than me in that department. In Southern Ontario we usually get 4 to 6 snow storms a year that would require AWD or snow tires. I have never heard a complaint about a CR-V being stuck....and I have seen them get through whatever snow is on the ground. However, if you are in an area that has more snow you know best under those conditions.

driver100

stickguy said:

Driver, pretty much how most people justify a new car: I just want one. Numbers are cold and impersonal.

One beef I have with some of the new vs. used analysis. it ignores reliability and the hassle factor. I don't care if it is cheaper to keep fixing my old car. I don't want to have to deal with a car that I have to keep fixing, and no way in Hades am I willing to take a chance on breaking down on the highway. Of course any car could, but at a certain point it becomes a lot more likely.

Reliability is a big factor for me. I have had my share of breakdowns and having down time with older cars. I just don't have the patience, time, or aptitude to try to get broken down cars fixed......not to mention being late for appointments, weddings, work or any other activity. Then handing your life over to a mechanic who you have to trust. I'd rather pay more for the luxury and peace of mind of having a newer car.

And, like you said, it isn't fun breaking down on the side of the highway, especially in the left shoulder with cars going by at 80 mph. That alone makes a newer car worthwhile for me.

driver100

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

When I want a new car, I know I want it just because. I don't invent metrics to make it appear it's financially sound, because I know it's just not true. I'm in a process of wanting a new 435 Grand Coupe in place of my three years old 328 wagon. Probably in next six months. If I do that, it's going to be financial lunacy and I know it, but if/when I do it, I won't care. I would rather call it for what it is than pretend to myself that it's a great move, but that's just me. I file it under my few vices.

BTW, hassle factor is certainly important and its value is probably straight proportional to amount of disposable income one has.

I agree 100%- in 25 years I haven't had any of my cars strand me on the roadside(fingers crossed). The X3 has required two immediate repairs, but in both cases the car was over eight years old and had over 136k on the clock.

Flipping a 3-5 year old car with less than 100k miles because you need to is akin to buying a car to "save money on gas." Just admit you want a new car and don't attempt to justify it from a financial standpoint...

I'd really like to see statistics on the cost of driving a new X3 say every 4 years, compared to keeping the same car for 8 or 10 years. Using the "Driver Method of Justification" I would imagine it will be less than $4k or $5K a year.

For that $4k or $5k a year you are getting the latest safety devices, latest engineering, better quality, less down time, less stress if you go on a trip, etc.

Like I say, for me it is forced savings too, when the day comes their isn't sticker shock, getting very little for my trade-in, while the new cars have gone up in price.

driver100

roadburner said:

And file this under REALLY depressing news- my son came home from college for fall break and informed us that he is now almost certain that he wants to become a lawyer.

Where did I go wrong? I thought I had done a better job of raising him...

Not a bad idea having a lawyer in the family. You never know.

abacomike

stickguy said:

Driver, pretty much how most people justify a new car: I just want one. Numbers are cold and impersonal. One beef I have with some of the new vs. used analysis. it ignores reliability and the hassle factor. I don't care if it is cheaper to keep fixing my old car. I don't want to have to deal with a car that I have to keep fixing, and no way in Hades am I willing to take a chance on breaking down on the highway. Of course any car could, but at a certain point it becomes a lot more likely.

Stick, I totally agree with you.  For me, buying a new car every year is something I treat myself to because I love new cars.  In most other things in my life, I am very frugal (buying new cars is expensive and uses quite a bit of my annual capital).

I love the smell and the feel of new cars.  When I get tired of them, I get another.  I was out of my mind to buy the CLS because of its low stance and poor visibility.  But I loved that engine and already miss it.  But this new E400, even though it lacks 2 features I consider essential for me as an older driver, is as close to a perfect vehicle for me as anything else I have owned.  I sit up higher, visibility is outstanding, and 330 horsepower is sufficient to get any car moving nicely onto an interstate.

Once I get this problem solved with Mercedes, I can hopefully enjoy my replacement car and enter my contented zone.  Until then, I'll struggle with my new car that is not what I expected - at least for the next 11-12 months.

stickguy

well, somewhere in between a car a year and 15 years/250,000 miles is where I fall! either extreme has risks or is just too expensive.

5 years/60k to me is still a "new" car in terms of just using every day, going anywhere you want, etc. Once you get over 10 years or 100ishk, they just naturally get more needy, and things wear out or fail. Just a matter of when and where.

I think a good rule of thumb for many people (at least that are reasonably comfortable financially) is to buy something reasonable and slightly below your means, pay it off in 3 years, keep it 6 years, then replace it. That way you get the prime reliable years out of it, drive for "free" for 3 years, and should still have something with good value at 6 years/75K or so. Plus, other than routine oil changes and a set of tires, maybe brake pads, you never have to deal with repairs. And on a premium brand, probably always under some kind of warranty.

roadburner

driver100 said:

For that $4k or $5k a year you are getting the latest safety devices, latest engineering, better quality, less down time, less stress if you go on a trip, etc.

Latest and greatest? You mean more nannies, added weight, and numb steering?

The X3's increased down time over the first 7-8 years? Just scheduled maintenance.

Stress? the only time I've come remotely close to being stranded on a trip was when I hit a pothole with the Club Sport(when it was NINE years old, BTW) and I had to buy a new tire when we arrived at Hilton Head.

I'd agree that not everyone can or should own a car past five years and/or 120k miles, but flipping a car every three years can't be justified for any reason other than that you are tired of your "old" car and want something different. And that is fine; there's no need to justify your habit- just enjoy it

dino001

I'm with you, stick. 6 years/100 k miles is just about what I think person with means should do, if their objective is to optimize enjoyment and cost at the same time, unfortunately I got close only once, with my WRX. Next STI I knew was a short term proposition, as a transition to the BMW, but the mitigating factor was ridiculously low depreciation I experienced on it (35 percent in 3 years, including taxes and fees, driven by superhigh discount in end of 2008 when dealerships were visited mostly by wind, followed by the tsunami and severe supply constraints in 2011). If I do same thing with the 328, it will be more like 50% or so, maybe a bit less if the dealer gives me a good price.

stickguy

actually, that fits with my other theory, that I called the 3/6 plan. Buy a 3 YO car with normal to low miles (30-40K) and keep it for 3 years. Lather, rinse, repeat. Works especially well if you don't put a lot of miles on (say for the 2nd car in the family that does not get travel duty).

worked a lot better before used car prices got out of hand. Lots of times the buy new, keep 6 years option ends up being comparable. and much easier to do.

dino001

BTW, machines like cars tend to break down more frequently very early in their life than after a few miles. Then of course it reverses. I'd risk to say that a brand new car you just picked up is more likely to strand you on a highway due to a production defect than a three years old car you own and maintain from new due to similar defect, or wear. I don't know that for sure, but it would not surprise me, if that actually were true. Machine's reliability is climbing in its first couple of years, as production defects reveal themselves in early usage cycles, then it starts falling, as some parts start experiencing wear and possible design flaws, or as some claim, predesigned lifespan of some components show up.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Quick update in the CTS saga......

Didn't buy anything yet. So, the good news here, the original dealership is really bending over backwards to find something I want.

I think I've established I like the way the car drives. I really like the 4 cyl turbo motor....lots more torque off the line than my TL V6 Vtech (which really doesn't start chugging until about 4K RPMs, but still is no slouch). Suspension and steering is where the car really shines. Tip of the cap to Cadillac engineers. They did a great job, out doing the other competitors in the segment in that regard.

Cadillac seems to have cleaned up the CUE glitches. It is responsive, throws up gorgeous graphics on the screen, and the voice recognition is simple to use and more accurate than anything I've ever experienced on any car.

The Bose stereo is still not the equal of the ELS in my TL. But, it sounds as good as anything else I've heard in Audis, Infinitis, Benzs or BMW.....better than most, actually.

Lots of tech......Blind spot monitoring in the side mirrors, accident avoidance (when set will automatically brake the car to prevent you rear ending another vehicle), lane keep assist, and a whole lot more. All works well. While I really don't like the nannies, and they are defeat able, Cadillac did a good job with them.

It makes more of an aggressive "growl" than the smooth sound of the Acura's motor. Not sure which is better, but they're both just different. Nothing beat the sound of the S/C V6 in my S4. But, that engine sound was "piped in via that car's stereo". So, not sure that counts.

I've been dealing mostly with the owner's son (and dealership GM). Great guy. genuinely interested in winning me back as a customer. As an aside, I asked him what had happened to the GSM who gave my late Mother and me so much grief all those years ago. While he told me some long and drawn out details, bottom line, apparently the guy was an alcoholic and prone to angry outbursts, not only with the sales guys, but also with some customers as well. I had felt he took advantage of my late Mother, and told the owner's son about his outbursts with me when I called him out on the deceptions he heaped upon my mother and the subsequent lack of support when they sold her was a lemon.

The last straw with him came after a dealership get-together in which the old GSM had been drinking too much, and went off on a curse filled tirade on the dealer's owner. GSM came in the next day and was promptly fired, but he didn't leave until he had damaged some of the cars in the showroom.

Crazy story.

That brings us to right now.

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carfeully assembled.

Owner's son has given me his daily driver.....red CTS 2.0 with tan interior, all loaded up, to see if they can find something by tomorrow.

I have not given them any money, nor have I even signed any sort of agreement stipulating if I wrecked their car, I was responsible. He just gave me his keys.

If we come to terms, this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.

If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

They're winning me over, for sure.

More tomorrow.

Oh yeah, you're buying that car.

Kinda sounding that way, eh?

Got any bites on your end?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Quick update in the CTS saga......

Didn't buy anything yet. So, the good news here, the original dealership is really bending over backwards to find something I want.

I think I've established I like the way the car drives. I really like the 4 cyl turbo motor....lots more torque off the line than my TL V6 Vtech (which really doesn't start chugging until about 4K RPMs, but still is no slouch). Suspension and steering is where the car really shines. Tip of the cap to Cadillac engineers. They did a great job, out doing the other competitors in the segment in that regard.

Cadillac seems to have cleaned up the CUE glitches. It is responsive, throws up gorgeous graphics on the screen, and the voice recognition is simple to use and more accurate than anything I've ever experienced on any car.

The Bose stereo is still not the equal of the ELS in my TL. But, it sounds as good as anything else I've heard in Audis, Infinitis, Benzs or BMW.....better than most, actually.

Lots of tech......Blind spot monitoring in the side mirrors, accident avoidance (when set will automatically brake the car to prevent you rear ending another vehicle), lane keep assist, and a whole lot more. All works well. While I really don't like the nannies, and they are defeat able, Cadillac did a good job with them.

It makes more of an aggressive "growl" than the smooth sound of the Acura's motor. Not sure which is better, but they're both just different. Nothing beat the sound of the S/C V6 in my S4. But, that engine sound was "piped in via that car's stereo". So, not sure that counts.

I've been dealing mostly with the owner's son (and dealership GM). Great guy. genuinely interested in winning me back as a customer. As an aside, I asked him what had happened to the GSM who gave my late Mother and me so much grief all those years ago. While he told me some long and drawn out details, bottom line, apparently the guy was an alcoholic and prone to angry outbursts, not only with the sales guys, but also with some customers as well. I had felt he took advantage of my late Mother, and told the owner's son about his outbursts with me when I called him out on the deceptions he heaped upon my mother and the subsequent lack of support when they sold her was a lemon.

The last straw with him came after a dealership get-together in which the old GSM had been drinking too much, and went off on a curse filled tirade on the dealer's owner. GSM came in the next day and was promptly fired, but he didn't leave until he had damaged some of the cars in the showroom.

Crazy story.

That brings us to right now.

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carfeully assembled.

Owner's son has given me his daily driver.....red CTS 2.0 with tan interior, all loaded up, to see if they can find something by tomorrow.

I have not given them any money, nor have I even signed any sort of agreement stipulating if I wrecked their car, I was responsible. He just gave me his keys.

If we come to terms, this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.

If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

They're winning me over, for sure.

More tomorrow.

Oh yeah, you're buying that car.

Kinda sounding that way, eh?

Got any bites on your end?

Zip. So far.

cdnpinhead

roadburner said:

Where did I go wrong? I thought I had done a better job of raising him...

I feel your pain. I've been an engineer in a huge conglomerate for most of the past 45 years, and until the past 5 it's been quite an ordeal. All three sons have an engineering degree, and two are practicing. Apparently they have no powers of observation.

The good news is that I'm now considered a "resource," so I'm treated quite differently than I was ten or twenty years ago.

cdnpinhead

". . . flipping a car every three years can't be justified for any reason other than that you are tired of your "old" car and want something different. And that is fine; there's no need to justify your habit- just enjoy it."

Amen

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Quick update in the CTS saga......

Didn't buy anything yet. So, the good news here, the original dealership is really bending over backwards to find something I want.

I think I've established I like the way the car drives. I really like the 4 cyl turbo motor....lots more torque off the line than my TL V6 Vtech (which really doesn't start chugging until about 4K RPMs, but still is no slouch). Suspension and steering is where the car really shines. Tip of the cap to Cadillac engineers. They did a great job, out doing the other competitors in the segment in that regard.

Cadillac seems to have cleaned up the CUE glitches. It is responsive, throws up gorgeous graphics on the screen, and the voice recognition is simple to use and more accurate than anything I've ever experienced on any car.

The Bose stereo is still not the equal of the ELS in my TL. But, it sounds as good as anything else I've heard in Audis, Infinitis, Benzs or BMW.....better than most, actually.

Lots of tech......Blind spot monitoring in the side mirrors, accident avoidance (when set will automatically brake the car to prevent you rear ending another vehicle), lane keep assist, and a whole lot more. All works well. While I really don't like the nannies, and they are defeat able, Cadillac did a good job with them.

It makes more of an aggressive "growl" than the smooth sound of the Acura's motor. Not sure which is better, but they're both just different. Nothing beat the sound of the S/C V6 in my S4. But, that engine sound was "piped in via that car's stereo". So, not sure that counts.

I've been dealing mostly with the owner's son (and dealership GM). Great guy. genuinely interested in winning me back as a customer. As an aside, I asked him what had happened to the GSM who gave my late Mother and me so much grief all those years ago. While he told me some long and drawn out details, bottom line, apparently the guy was an alcoholic and prone to angry outbursts, not only with the sales guys, but also with some customers as well. I had felt he took advantage of my late Mother, and told the owner's son about his outbursts with me when I called him out on the deceptions he heaped upon my mother and the subsequent lack of support when they sold her was a lemon.

The last straw with him came after a dealership get-together in which the old GSM had been drinking too much, and went off on a curse filled tirade on the dealer's owner. GSM came in the next day and was promptly fired, but he didn't leave until he had damaged some of the cars in the showroom.

Crazy story.

That brings us to right now.

I've sort of decided on a 2.0 AWD Performance edition that's dark grey metallic with silver interior, wood inserts, including heated/cooled soft leather seats, real aluminum and chrome, as well as suede inserts....just beautifully done....carfeully assembled.

Owner's son has given me his daily driver.....red CTS 2.0 with tan interior, all loaded up, to see if they can find something by tomorrow.

I have not given them any money, nor have I even signed any sort of agreement stipulating if I wrecked their car, I was responsible. He just gave me his keys.

If we come to terms, this may be the best buying experience I've ever had, for any car, for any manufacturer.

If I buy, any service, even simple oil changes, they'll pick up my car, leave me with a loaner, take my car for service, and return it washed and cleaned.

They're winning me over, for sure.

More tomorrow.

Oh yeah, you're buying that car.

Kinda sounding that way, eh?

Got any bites on your end?

Zip. So far.

I'm really kinda surprised by that. I thought for sure your Eclipse would be snatched up by some young guy jonesing for a sports car. Price is right. It looks great. Someone's going to jump on it.

stickguy

Young guys don't often have 11k to blow on one.

qbrozen

I predict it will be a tough sell. Just look at new mitsu sales. It isn't a much loved brand, and the latter Eclipses weren't very sporty. I'm actually quite surprised by its value. No offense to oldfarmer, of course.

jayrider

Loan value is the big issue for private sales if the buyer doesn't have cash.

graphicguy

I thought those Eclipse's (along with the Civic coupes) were hot numbers with the young'uns who like to cruise down the boulevard in something sporty?

Admittedly, I don't know diddly about Mitubishis. Fact is, I don't know that they have any other models but the Eclipse, and really don't even know where the nearest dealer is around here.

robr2

graphicguy said:

I thought those Eclipse's (along with the Civic coupes) were hot numbers with the young'uns who like to cruise down the boulevard in something sporty?

Maybe 10 years ago. Today is Jetta Mk IV's and brodozers.

mako1a

My buddy's wife had a Mitsu SUV a few years back which she gave to her daughter. It is now called Mister Bi#chy.

qbrozen

pretty sure the eclipse is long-since dead. They have the Evo, an SUV, and a couple of econo boxes.

robr2

qbrozen said:

pretty sure the eclipse is long-since dead. They have the Evo, an SUV, and a couple of econo boxes.

Per their US website:

Mirage
Lancer
Lancer Sportback
Lancer Evo
Outlander
Outlander Sport
i-MiEV

fezo

roadburner said:

And file this under REALLY depressing news- my son came home from college for fall break and informed us that he is now almost certain that he wants to become a lawyer.

Where did I go wrong? I thought I had done a better job of raising him...

My sympathies. There's only so much a dad can do, leading by bad example.....

ab348

So the Galant I got from Dollar Rent a Car at Norfolk airport a year ago was the last of the line? Thank dog for that.

fezo

The Galant may have killed Mitsubishi in the American market. You can't succeed without a competitive basic family sedan.

isellhondas

explorerx4 said:

Next spring one of my kids is going to be looking for a new car. CR-V was pretty high on the list, but now it's off. Don't see the point of buying an AWD vehicle where the AWD doesn't work, or if enabled will break. Probably will look at a Subi, Escape, and Rav4. They grew up driving a CUV and that's what they like driving due to the higher seating position.

I'm telling you, that video is total BS. We currently own two 4WD CRV's and have owned two others in the past and the 4WD systems do work and work well! Until I saw that video I NEVER ONCE hear of this!

robr2

fezo said:

The Galant may have killed Mitsubishi in the American market. You can't succeed without a competitive basic family sedan.

AFAIK, they don't offer a midsize sedan anywhere in the world. I wonder if outside the US it doesn't matter.

isellhondas

roadburner said:

driver100 said:

For that $4k or $5k a year you are getting the latest safety devices, latest engineering, better quality, less down time, less stress if you go on a trip, etc.

Latest and greatest? You mean more nannies, added weight, and numb steering?

The X3's increased down time over the first 7-8 years? Just scheduled maintenance.

Stress? the only time I've come remotely close to being stranded on a trip was when I hit a pothole with the Club Sport(when it was NINE years old, BTW) and I had to buy a new tire when we arrived at Hilton Head.

I'd agree that not everyone can or should own a car past five years and/or 120k miles, but flipping a car every three years can't be justified for any reason other than that you are tired of your "old" car and want something different. And that is fine; there's no need to justify your habit- just enjoy it

Did you say "numb steering"

The CRV I drive everyday is the 80,000 mile 2003 that we bought new. My wife drives the 2013 and I don't drive it very often at all.

In a word, I HATE the electric steering! You don't steer this car, you "point" it. It's like driving with a joystick! I also HATE the thick pillars that make the car hard to see out of. Oh, I know, it's because of rollover protection and that it gives the car five star safety ratings.

The car is quicker, and quieter and it has a lot more features but I just don't like driving it.

To be fair, those things don't seem to bother my wife one bit and were I to drive it on a daily basis I would probably get used to it.

graphicguy

robr2 said:

qbrozen said:

pretty sure the eclipse is long-since dead. They have the Evo, an SUV, and a couple of econo boxes.

Per their US website:

Mirage
Lancer
Lancer Sportback
Lancer Evo
Outlander
Outlander Sport
i-MiEV

So, I'm a self proclaimed car guy, and didn't know Mitsu was still selling cars here. That can't be good for the brand.