Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

roadburner said:

dino001 said:

isellhondas said:

My point at the time was the fact that no matter how low we priced a car, people still wanted more. Very seldom did we hear " Wow, that's a great price, write it up!"

It's a great story. This was a classic situation, when uninformed buyer had a streak of luck, but they wouldn't know it. Their lifetime experience told them salespeople never say what they mean and always create that false urgency, so it just can't the one time it is real. They of course didn't understand the actual pricing components, what would be a typical expected discount. All the "know" is "dealers make a lot of money", so who knows, maybe this one they got for free from Honda, or who knows, right?

On the hindsight all they needed to do is look around for similar Odysseys on your lot and make a few quick comparison calculations, like this one sticker is 25K, red tag is 22K, this one has a sticked 30K, but the red tag is 25K. But this would require a quick decision. People get paralyzed by greed, especially when things are different from what they were prepared to face. Like a mistake on a tag.

Another salesperson told a similar story from a Mazda dealership. IIRC, they sold all their inventory for essentially invoice, except for the new(at that time) Mazdaspeed Protege- which they sold at MSRP. Again, a green pea wrote up a deal for a Mazdaspeed Protege at invoice. The sales manager went ahead and honored it. The car hadn't been through PDI yet so the customer was going to pick it up the following day. Lo and behold, the next day the customer calls the sales manager; "I talked with my friends and they think you all are screwing me over, so if you won't take off another $500 just tear up the deal." The manager gladly ripped up the deal.
Of course you know the rest of the story- the customer shops around and comes back with his tail between his legs asking the store to honor the original deal.
Fat chance, moron.

As you all know, I started in the car business as a salesman at a Lexus dealership back in 2001 when I moved here from California. I believe I related this car story years ago, but your post, @roadburner, reminded me of this true story.

I was working the late shift at the dealership. It was my first month as a car salesman and I was far from burned out by the long hours and significant stress that usually accompanies auto sales, especially in a large dealership. There were 6 salesmen working that night and they were all in their offices making follow-up calls to customers. Since I did not have many customers and I was still new to the business, I was holding down the fort in the main new car showroom. It was about 8:15 PM, about 45 minutes from the time we closed. This guy walks in, comes right up to me, shakes my hand and tells me he was going to buy a car from me that night. Well, even though I was new to car sales, I'd experienced several other times when a customer would tell me he was going to buy a car from me that day and of course it never happened. I merely smiled, thanked him in advance for his business, and asked him several questions. He said he wanted to skip the pleasantries and get right to the point. I said that would be fine with me and then asked what he had in mind.

It seems he had been shopping other dealers from Palm Beach to South Miami, trying to buy a new ES 300 (they are now called ES 350's). He has to have burgundy exterior and beige interior. I took him out back and found several cars that fit his description and option needs. He pointed to one of the cars and said that was the one he wanted. I pulled the keys, drove the car up front and he refused to take a demo ride with me. I said fine, but at least sit in the car to make sure it is precisely what you wanted. He accepted my offer and sat in the car, played with the radio and a few knobs, adjusted his seat, and again reiterated that this is the car he wanted.

We went inside to my office and I wrote up the order. I took the order to my manager on the other side of the showroom. It was almost 9:00 PM when I entered the manager's office. He looked at the stock number of the car, pulled up the cost data on his computer, and put a price on the order form of MSRP. I told him he was not going to be happy with this. The manager merely asked me to present the price and ask him for his offer. I did what I was told to do. I asked him if he had a figure in mind, which he did after shopping 4 dealerships, and wrote down on the order form a number that I knew was at least $2500 behind invoice on the car. I brought the offer to the manager. He said that this guy is a tire kicker and just wasting our time. He further stated that the customer was never going to buy a car that night, so he sent me back with a number that was about $1500+ behind invoice. I showed him the number and he shook my hand, signed the order form, and said he wants to write a check for the full amount. I took the signed order to the manager. The manager asked if the guy had left so he could lock up the showroom and we could all go home. I responded to him, "...no, he didn't leave. In fact, he has his checkbook out and wants to write a check for the full amount. All he needs is the number out the door so he could call his wife to drive home in the car he came with.

The manager that night was the son of the General Manager of the Dealership. He looked at me, turned red in the face, and said, "...good God, my dad is going to kill me. Is there any way we can get a "bump" out of this guy?" I told him no, he was in a hurry and wanted to write the check. The manager then filled out the buyers order with all the fees and title charges including taxes, and I went out and had him sign at the bottom, write the check, and I got his driver's license, insurance, etc., and printed up the paperwork. I took the car to detail to get the car ready and he left with his new car about 45 minutes later. The manager of course had already left and I had to close up the showroom.

The next morning, I was in to work at around 8:15 AM to book the deal and take it up to accounting. The manager was already in the GM's office (his father's office) and you could hear, through the closed door, the yelling, screaming, cursing, etc. The manager came out of the office, red faced again, and said he was going home for the day - he needed some time to recuperate from the ordeal last night and this morning. The GM came out, pointed to me and waved me into his office. He asked me what had happened last night and that I had to make sure I didn't skip any part of what happened. I told he exactly what happened. The GM asked me if I had cautioned his son to not make the offer, to which I responded, "...several times, sir. But he was in a hurry to get out of the dealership and to go home." He shook my hand, told me he was putting me in for a $500 bonus because the commission on the sale the night before netted me only $100.

And that was the end of that. I laughed like heck after that. I found out a few days later that the dealership had taken a $2800 loss on the deal. All the salesmen in the dealership heard about what had happened and came over to hear my story over and over again. I was a star for at least a week. But, after that week, I became just another salesman.

abacomike

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Ditto. The interior is exquisite. The only thing that would turn me off is the white interior. I had an off-white interior on my CLS400. It soiled very quickly.

The seats in the picture are similar in shape to the seats in my BMW. Very rich looking, to be sure.

jmonroe

roadburner said:

I can't talk about the details right now, but there's a guy we are working with who is being offered a great deal but still wants to chip away another $200. I told the SM that if I had the money I would be all over that deal.

You shouldn't have said that. Now he knows he has another buyer.

jmonroe

driver100

dino001 said:

I would not mind to participate in one of those in-depth surveys, as long as they're really honest. However, the data shows most of the time the questions are structured in such a way that God save they'd actually learn what you think. Most of the time they either want you to tell everything is peachy, or they want to confirm the executive's "gut feel" on whatever they ask for. Another "class" of its own are political surveys done by some lobbying group, where questions are structured to make you answer "yes" on the question that you wouldn't understand, even if you had PhD majoring in the subject matter.

I don't mind an honest survey...how was your salesman, how was your maintenance work, how was your cars buying experience? But this is just marketing stuff.

My SIL had his company install a phone line for us. He said an independent company will ask you to take a survey about my companies work (which was done for free). He said be sure to answer very positive. Just so he can use it to show new perspective customers.

driver100

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

I consider mop 'n glo more an annoyance than anything. Those things are relatively easy to negotiate out or simply walk away from. I'm talking true criminal acts, like switching paperwork, or dishonest gouging, like "four-square" plays without proper disclosures. Paint sealant or scotch guard seats are in different league. I don't like them "preinstalled" (it's fine with me if the F&I guy comes with an offer that I simply say no to), unfortunately dealers of Japanese brands are notorious for putting s..t here in Tampa (or sometimes it's their distributor), but it's not that hard to ignore the stickers, act like they're not there and just move on. BTW, that SET (Southeastern Toyota) sticker, with integrated "Toyoguard" package on the guard is a remnant of the by-gone era - but if you're a serious buyer with money and credit, they won't let you walk if you refuse to pay it.

The dealer group where I bought my last 2 cars does two things that drive me nuts. All of their inventoried new cars have VIN etching in the glass, and all get dealer-installed locking lug nuts. I forget what those two things add up to but it is a few hundred dollars total. It is just presented as a fait accompli. I don't know where my next car is coming from but those things are no longer going to be paid for by me.

Those are just phony money makers for the dealer. Cost next to nothing....cost $100s!

abacomike

tjc78 said:

dino001 said:

Here is example of what I'm talking about. It's a picture of 22K Corolla in my local dealership. "Toyoguard Platinum". Wow: whole two oil changes, roadside assistance, rental assistance (only if the car is broken), exterior/interior "protection": $699, true value, about $300 at best (compare roadside assistance with three years of AAA, can of this, can of that) But wait there is more: they put another extra-extra paint protector. So sealant is not enough, now you get paint protection film on the hood and doors. And it's only $618. Who wouldn't want that? And of course $699 dealer fee. So now we just raised the price by over 10 percent adding about 2 percent of actual value. That's how we do it here, in Florida. Of course then you get a "discount" and they sold it to you "at invoice" with fat 2 grand of add-ons. BTW, same website has a 60-month lease on it. LEASE. I see those kind of things and the place is crossed out of my list.

SET is known for these crazy add on packages.  They are installed at the port before the dealers even get the cars. I believe the dealers have no choice but to accept the cars that way per agreements.  

@abacomike, any more insight to this?

Southeast Toyota is owned by the Moran Family, known as JM Family Enterprises.  The Lexus dealership I worked at was owned by JM Family.  Jim Moran was the owner and founder.  Their headquarters are in Deerfield Beach - both SET and JM Family.

SET is well-known for adding "add-ons" to every car they distribute to Toyota dealerships throughout the southeastern USA.  The add-ons are put right on the Monroney Sticker (MSRP Factory sticker).  These range from paint protection, rust-protection, fabric protection, wheel locks, window tinting, to name a few.  I have not seen a Toyota down here that did not have add-ons from SET.

It's just a profit generating practice.

Jim Moran started in Chicago at Coutesy Ford.  "Jim Moran - The Coutesy Man!"  I knew him quite well - he had a huge yacht named Lady Luck and then bought another and better one named Lady Luck II.  I was on board many times.  He got in on the ground floor with Toyota and ended up buying the distributorship (SET) back in the 1960's.  It's the most profitable distributor of Toyota/Lexus worldwide.

Personally, if I saw a new car with a sticker showing those add-ons, I'd either tell them to remove them from the car or I'd refuse to pay a dime for them.  It's "highway robbery!"

fintail

Steelies

jmonroe said:

What would you expect a throw away to have?

jmonroe

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Did you get that 2016 Lexus LS yet?

As for the G90, my '15 Genny is now called a G80 and the interior is so much like the G90 I'd have to see them side by side to see the difference. The G90 is a good 11 grand more than my car but I don't need or want all of the extra stuff it has. Especially the rear seat entertainment system and the head rest screens on the rear of the front seats. My rear seats are almost never used and for sure they ain't used by me. I don't play with what I have now so for me a G90 would not be worth the money difference.

FWIW, when I got my first oil change last summer at the dealership near me, I sat in the 2017 G90 and it felt just like mine. To me the leather wasn't any softer but I imagine that it is quieter on the road but until I take a test drive, which I don't plan to do, I'm not positive that it is. Mine is pretty darn quiet. And I'm not allowed to get another car for who knows how long.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

pensfan83

dino001 said:

Now, I remember an opposite happening. These were times when Mini was just introduced to the market and the car was so hot, people could sell them used and make profit vs. MSRP (really early days). My buddy and I went to this local new Mini dealer, just curious what the hubbub was all about. We see they got a batch and there was a line for a test drive. We noticed all of them with this really expensive clear plastic protection stuff on the hood (really hideous, IMHO). So we talk to the salesman, what's up with that, he fully honestly says we add it to them all. So the friend asks what if I don't want it? Oh, they all have it, so you can take it off, but you'll pay anyway. So the friend, what if I order one without this. The guy says with a straight face, and I'm not kidding, yeah, we can skip it at the port, but we will still charge you for it. Just beautiful. This is what happens when anybody gets just a little more power than they usually have - they get drunk. The arrogance of the statement by this salesman is beyond the pale. This exchange was by the way one of the reasons I feel no sympathy to this industry, whatsoever. I generally get along with the salespeople just fine. It's not personal for me one way or another, but I do want to respect their time, if I can, but if needed I will take their time without the transaction, cause it is their job after all.

If it comes to pricing, I'd be all about whatever the market says, so if you have to discount the car deep into your cost just to sell it, don't expect me feeling sorry for you or your owner, just like I don't expect you feel sorry for me, if I had to pay full sticker (or more) to get something in short supply (assuming I would be so inclined, which I'm usually not). I honestly would prefer no Turkish bazaar environment, but more like grocery supermarket, where price is the price, but whatever - if that's how it's got to be, then I'll adapt. Only one time I felt like the salesman crossed a little line, when he got indignant on my suggestion that I could buy the car anywhere, if all he could offer was the list price on my ED BMW. He went on how nice he was and all blah, blah his time. I essentially said, I spent similar time in other places, too and that's the way the industry plays the game. BTW, after I left he wouldn't even follow up with a short email confirming that I didn't give him fake data and saying here is my phone number if you needed me. Anyway, I digressed.

Arrogance and professional immaturity on the part of the sales staff, including the managers, are two ways a dealer gets a quick hook.

roadburner

I always liked the boat tail Rivs; my favorites are the 1971 and 1972- before they got hamstrung with those chrome guardrail bumpers. My favorite Riv is the 1967 GS:

stickguy

Farmer, not that I would buy something like this, but no question if I had to take one, it would be the Riv.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

I like the cleaner lines, no big bumpers or power sapping smog controls on the Lincoln than the Riv. Sharp looking interior in the Mark as well, reminds me of the Mark 'Cannon' drove, just doesn't have a silver exterior. Everything being relative, I bet the Riv, even with the smogged engine and big bumpers handles better however.

driver100

abacomike said:

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Ditto. The interior is exquisite. The only thing that would turn me off is the white interior. I had an off-white interior on my CLS400. It soiled very quickly.

The seats in the picture are similar in shape to the seats in my BMW. Very rich looking, to be sure.

Interior looks great but it looks like my 2012 BMW 535....I think they copied it!

driver100

I read this story in today's newspaper....about a woman's bad experiencing buying a used car....kind of what happened to isell;

Only a few days into my search, I began to understand why the used car industry had a shady reputation. After spotting a Toyota Corolla on Auto Trader, I drove to a dealership in a nearby city just before closing time, and took the car for a test-drive. I told the salesperson how very interested I was in the car, and said I'd call him at a set time the next day; I needed to think about it over night. I gave him my phone number and asked him to call me if anyone else was interested in the car before I got back to him the following day.

By the next morning, I had decided to purchase the Corolla, and I was excited about my decision. I drove to the dealership. That's when I saw the sign stretched across the Corolla's windshield that read, "Sold to a very nice person." I was stunned. I hunted down the salesperson and asked him why he hadn't contacted me as he had agreed to do. He said, "A lady came in with a wad of cash as a down payment for the car and the manager said to let it go." He told me, "That's the way this business is." I would hear that phrase a few more times over the next four weeks of car hunting.

Well, what did she expect...........if she really wanted the car she could have saved it with a refundable deposit to show how serious she was. Instead, she wants to think about it.....a real customer comes in and puts a down payment on the car, and buys it. What universe does she live in.....thinks car dealers are shady because someone comes in and actually puts a d.p. on the car! :@

FULL STORY

cdnpinhead

Strike while the iron is hot -- if you snooze, you lose. And on and on and on.

Mr_Shiftright

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

Oh the RIV. No contest. You don't want the Nimitz.

stickguy

The seats in that G90 are the same design as in my Sonata. A pretty unique bottom cushion shape.

For that Corolla lady, that happened to me many years ago. Looked at a used Infinity at the Lexus dealer, said I wanted it, but had to confirm wife was OK with it (this was also in the evening). By next day when I called back to say it was officially a go, they had sold it, and never bothered to call me first. I seem to recall being quite annoyed, and was basically told that "if you liked it you should have put a ring on it" (to borrow a line from Beyonce!)

suydam

Happened to me too. The dealership was 50 miles away and I had told the salesman I'd be there the next morning. When I got there I wasn't annoyed that they sold the car, c'est la vie. But I was pretty ticked that the salesperson didn't call me to let me know it had been sold. If he had, I might have driven in and looked at another vehicle, but by not calling me there was no way I would ever set foot in that place again.

tjc78

@abacomike
Thanks for the clarification on SET

@oldfarmer50
I would take the Lincoln because I love those old boats.  Grand pop had a RIV very similar to that one.  Burnt orange over brown....

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

The seats in that G90 are the same design as in my Sonata. A pretty unique bottom cushion shape.

For that Corolla lady, that happened to me many years ago. Looked at a used Infinity at the Lexus dealer, said I wanted it, but had to confirm wife was OK with it (this was also in the evening). By next day when I called back to say it was officially a go, they had sold it, and never bothered to call me first. I seem to recall being quite annoyed, and was basically told that "if you liked it you should have put a ring on it" (to borrow a line from Beyonce!)

I think there's a bit of passive-aggressive behavior there on the part of the salesperson in those cases. Almost like saying "you wasted my time so that's what you get". Understandable seeing how many strokes they must go through to make a sale.

I had an experience like that years ago when I bought my 86' Toyota. Salesman gave me a price and I left to think about it. (Think about spending that much money, not to shop price elsewhere). Returned the next day to complete the sale but found "that was yesterday's price". Should have walked but I was a car buying greenpea back then.

Now it could have been that they gave me a better initial deal because of some quota/bonus thing on the first visit that expired but I always thought they were sticking it to me for not buying TODAY. These days I would have walked.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

Well, what did she expect...........if she really wanted the car she could have saved it with a refundable deposit to show how serious she was. Instead, she wants to think about it.....a real customer comes in and puts a down payment on the car, and buys it. What universe does she live in.....thinks car dealers are shady because someone comes in and actually puts a d.p. on the car!

On the other hand, I wonder how many car salesmen have been told to save a car for me but I just need to think about it until tomorrow to be sure I'm doing the right thing...only to never hear from that person again.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Returned the next day to complete the sale but found "that was yesterday's price". Should have walked but I was a car buying greenpea back then.

I'd suspect it's that the salesman knew it was likely as a youthful buyer you wouldn't walk but would buckle under to a higher price--a bump.

graphicguy

OF....I like the Riv, too. Only problem, they don't show a pic of the front seat. Maybe nothing, but that tells me it may have rips or tears somewhere, or a big hole where the radio used to be.

RB....I REALLY like the '67 GS Boat Tail. Agree with you....my fave!

Never got caught in the whole "let me think about it" car buying decision. Usually, if I'm out of the showroom without a test drive, I'm not interested enough to make an offer.

But, if I am interested enough that I will probably make an offer, I'll put a Benjamin on the table to have them hold the car for me. Only one time I regretted doing that. This was a long time ago. I agreed to leave a deposit on a Camaro Z28 (early '90s, me thinks). Sales Manager accepted the deposit but said he needed me to sign a blank buyers order to hold the car, also.

I needed to double check figures (going to the bank to see what loan value was). Didn't have access to the info we do today. So, I did my manual calculations, wrote them down, figured tax and license and included those, too (early days of my "one offer" strategy).

Went to the dealership the next day, presented my offer. Salesman brings the previously signed buyers order, this time it was all filled out. MSRP with a dealer pack for "mop and glo". I told the sales person this wasn't the deal I agreed to. He called the sales manager to meet with me, who immediately points to my signature at the bottom of the order.

I was livid. I stormed out of the dealership repeating "these guys are sleaze balls" on my way out. Lost the $100 bill, but I wasn't going to be bullied into that kind of trickery. Sales person called me a couple of times apologetically wanting me to come back in to negotiate. I told him I wouldn't even talk to them without getting my $100 bill back. Never bought that car, but 3-4 months later I got a check from them for $100, nothing else in the envelope.

These days, I'm reminded why I should only do business with people I know and trust. My Acura sales person knew I was interested in the Red on Red TLX. He knew I was going to do my due diligence on it (easier these days), and that I had to put money in my checking account to do the deal. It would take me at least a day. I told him to hold the car for me and asked him if he wanted a $100 to hold it.

His reply...."Your handshake is good enough. I know you'll be back if you say you will".

That's how I like to do business.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

In some ways I like those big tanks...but, in other ways, they are almost the worst in American designed cars. All that chrome, it is a stupid use of space with a huge hood and tiny trunk, and small interior room for the size of the car. The Lincoln is shaped like a giant brick and the Buick has so many curves and bulges that don't really go together, especially around that rear side window and trunk.

I know my review will bother the fans. I think this design from the same period is much nicer and it will always be tasteful:


I think it is the memories the Lincoln and the Buick remind us of.....nice big fancy cars, more than the actual design of the cars that make us desire them.

fintail

Both of those land yachts look like nice old cars, and don't seem insanely priced. The Lincoln sure looks better as a 72 than later ones with railroad tie bumpers. I assume it would have a 460, and the Riv a 455, so fairly similar, although different cars.

The MB has a style to it as well, very much of the early 70s, and those are still quite affordable. A nice 114 coupe shouldn't pass 10K or so, only the best of the best bringing more.

The real top of the line MB coupe then was the SLC, these had an MSRP of 19K in 1973:

abacomike

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

In some ways I like those big tanks...but, in other ways, they are almost the worst in American designed cars. All that chrome, it is a stupid use of space with a huge hood and tiny trunk, and small interior room for the size of the car. The Lincoln is shaped like a giant brick and the Buick has so many curves and bulges that don't really go together, especially around that rear side window and trunk.

I know my review will bother the fans. I think this design from the same period is much nicer and it will always be tasteful:


I think it is the memories the Lincoln and the Buick remind us of.....nice big fancy cars, more than the actual design of the cars that make us desire them.

Those Mercedes cars (1970's and 1980's) are classic, IMHO. They will always catch my eye when I am driving and I see one on the road. I owned a 1987 Mercedes 420 SEL in Smoke Silver with brown interior. It was a beautiful car and handled like a dream. I believe I mentioned here on this forum that the reason I was able to drive a car like that was because the owner of the dealership's children attended my school and I was able to buy the car(s) for his invoice, which at the time, was 20% below MSRP. So, a $49,000 car would cost me $39,000 and change. That car, on the highway, was a true tank. It was smooth, handled beautifully, but sat back on its rear axle and cruised the interstates like it owned them.

fintail

Way back in the early part of the last decade, I had a 1989 300SE, the I6 variant of the 420SEL/560SEL. It was a lovely car:



This was the basic S-class then, MSRP 53K. I sold it after a few years as it was getting miled up, and I wanted something faster (I was still in my 20s).

imidazol97

Remember how upset some were at the idea of lifting an engine and tranmission enough to make repairs to wiring bundles and exhaust parts?




This is someone's Silverado.

imidazol97

All the parts on frame in the above picture USED to be on this frame.
You can see the 4-cab at top left of the picture and the motor is on a mobile sling in the picture at left of frame.

Service manager told me this happens some. Frame was damaged in accident. But airbags did not deploy--a major expense. Therefore it's cheaper to keep 'er and transfer the car truck to a new frame.ou.
Would you accept this as a repair from the opposition's insurance company representing the driver who hit you?

stickguy

I would fight this

imidazol97

A few years old but this is really and "off road" vehicle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U20_zL90pZc

tjc78

This is exactly what the shop did to my cousins late model Silverado 2500.   Long story short he was backing up behind a store, didn't see the drop off for the dock and put one tire in the dock.  Tweaked entire frame, bad enough the doors wouldn't open.  New frame ordered and swapped.  25k repair. 

28firefighter

All - lots of posts to try and catch up on. 

I am still in the hospital but have deteriorated rapidly and am in the intensive care unit. I'm on the mend and things are looking up, but of the 7 teams consulting on my case, none seem to have a true answer as to what is on. All diagnostic labs are negative for viruses and bacterial infections. That's good but for the fact that I had 106 fever for 4 hours yesterday. 

Current working theory is that a virus hit me and passed but in the process triggered my underlying auto-immune disease that I have thanks to Crohn's. A dose of steroids has helped immensely which supports that theory.

Stay tuned

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I would fight this

As long as an OEM frame is used, not some Chinese knock off.

thebean

Man, that sounds rough!  Good thoughts coming your way and I hope for a full recovery for you.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

In some ways I like those big tanks...but, in other ways, they are almost the worst in American designed cars. All that chrome, it is a stupid use of space with a huge hood and tiny trunk, and small interior room for the size of the car. The Lincoln is shaped like a giant brick and the Buick has so many curves and bulges that don't really go together, especially around that rear side window and trunk.

I know my review will bother the fans. I think this design from the same period is much nicer and it will always be tasteful:


I think it is the memories the Lincoln and the Buick remind us of.....nice big fancy cars, more than the actual design of the cars that make us desire them.

Too bad they stole their looks from Ford.

driver100

fintail said:

Way back in the early part of the last decade, I had a 1989 300SE, the I6 variant of the 420SEL/560SEL. It was a lovely car:



This was the basic S-class then, MSRP 53K. I sold it after a few years as it was getting miled up, and I wanted something faster (I was still in my 20s).

Beautiful! We bought our first Mercedes in 1999, it was the first year they made much lower price entry level cars, C230 I believe.

They gave us a loaner to use until the car came in, a 10 year old (1989) 300SE, it had such a smooth comfortable solid ride, like nothing I had ever experienced before. I thought the 10 year old Mercedes was better than any of the new cars at the time.

graphicguy

28FF....man-'o-man! Hang in there! That's crazy. Positive energy and thoughts coming your way.

graphicguy

imid....I'm assuming the Silverado is a newer model. But, once the frame is bent, regardless if they replace rather than repair the frame, I'd no longer want the truck. Insurance companies just get too crazy trying to save a nickel rather than doing what's best for their customers.

I think the vast majority of major insruance agencies have customers that don't make claims for many, many years. Those customers have been very, very profitable for the insurance companies. As soon as something happens like you describe, they become Ebenezer Scrooge. I'd fight the insurance company on this one.

houdini1

jmonroe said:

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Did you get that 2016 Lexus LS yet?

As for the G90, my '15 Genny is now called a G80 and the interior is so much like the G90 I'd have to see them side by side to see the difference. The G90 is a good 11 grand more than my car but I don't need or want all of the extra stuff it has. Especially the rear seat entertainment system and the head rest screens on the rear of the front seats. My rear seats are almost never used and for sure they ain't used by me. I don't play with what I have now so for me a G90 would not be worth the money difference.

FWIW, when I got my first oil change last summer at the dealership near me, I sat in the 2017 G90 and it felt just like mine. To me the leather wasn't any softer but I imagine that it is quieter on the road but until I take a test drive, which I don't plan to do, I'm not positive that it is. Mine is pretty darn quiet. And I'm not allowed to get another car for who knows how long.

jmonroe

jmonroe said:

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Did you get that 2016 Lexus LS yet?

As for the G90, my '15 Genny is now called a G80 and the interior is so much like the G90 I'd have to see them side by side to see the difference. The G90 is a good 11 grand more than my car but I don't need or want all of the extra stuff it has. Especially the rear seat entertainment system and the head rest screens on the rear of the front seats. My rear seats are almost never used and for sure they ain't used by me. I don't play with what I have now so for me a G90 would not be worth the money difference.

FWIW, when I got my first oil change last summer at the dealership near me, I sat in the 2017 G90 and it felt just like mine. To me the leather wasn't any softer but I imagine that it is quieter on the road but until I take a test drive, which I don't plan to do, I'm not positive that it is. Mine is pretty darn quiet. And I'm not allowed to get another car for who knows how long.

jmonroe

Yes. Brought it home Tuesday. They gave me $22,000. for my 2010 LS. Their price was $57,500. Plus $399. doc fee, so a diff. of about $36,000. The new one has 12,000 miles. I thought it was a pretty good deal for a 6 year upgrade. Three years still left on original warranty. Easy peasy deal. Love the car so far.

I tried to update my profile, and the 2016 shows there but not on my posts. I know this has happened to others but I don't remember how to fix it. Help.

jmonroe

@28firefighter

We hope by now you have turned the corner on this malady and you will be back to your old self very soon.

Just curious, I believe you said your parents are doctors so did they get any experts they know to confer with the doctors you are using now. I know this can get touchy but a lot of times the good doctors don't mind talking to another expert.

Anyway, good luck and start posting again soon.

jmonroe

fintail

My old car was also the best color, "Diamond Blue". I had seller's remorse for awhile, but it was time to move on.

Those cars are very much old school MB, kind of the last of the era. Insane build quality and solid feel, but they need by-the-book maintenance. If I ever go back to using an older car as a DD, certain 80s-90s MB will be at the top of the list.

driver100 said:

Beautiful! We bought our first Mercedes in 1999, it was the first year they made much lower price entry level cars, C230 I believe.

They gave us a loaner to use until the car came in, a 10 year old (1989) 300SE, it had such a smooth comfortable solid ride, like nothing I had ever experienced before. I thought the 10 year old Mercedes was better than any of the new cars at the time.

fintail

Congrats. Sounds like a deal, and nearly a new car.

houdini1 said:

Yes. Brought it home Tuesday. They gave me $22,000. for my 2010 LS. Their price was $57,500. Plus $399. doc fee, so a diff. of about $36,000. The new one has 12,000 miles. I thought it was a pretty good deal for a 6 year upgrade. Three years still left on original warranty. Easy peasy deal. Love the car so far.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

In some ways I like those big tanks...but, in other ways, they are almost the worst in American designed cars. All that chrome, it is a stupid use of space with a huge hood and tiny trunk, and small interior room for the size of the car. The Lincoln is shaped like a giant brick and the Buick has so many curves and bulges that don't really go together, especially around that rear side window and trunk.

I know my review will bother the fans. I think this design from the same period is much nicer and it will always be tasteful:


I think it is the memories the Lincoln and the Buick remind us of.....nice big fancy cars, more than the actual design of the cars that make us desire them.

Too bad they stole their looks from Ford.

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Which one?



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6207904996.html



https://albany.craigslist.org/cto/6216883303.html

In some ways I like those big tanks...but, in other ways, they are almost the worst in American designed cars. All that chrome, it is a stupid use of space with a huge hood and tiny trunk, and small interior room for the size of the car. The Lincoln is shaped like a giant brick and the Buick has so many curves and bulges that don't really go together, especially around that rear side window and trunk.

I know my review will bother the fans. I think this design from the same period is much nicer and it will always be tasteful:


I think it is the memories the Lincoln and the Buick remind us of.....nice big fancy cars, more than the actual design of the cars that make us desire them.

Too bad they stole their looks from Ford.

Who is copying whom?


The Mercedes is older.

jmonroe

houdini1 said:

jmonroe said:

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Did you get that 2016 Lexus LS yet?

As for the G90, my '15 Genny is now called a G80 and the interior is so much like the G90 I'd have to see them side by side to see the difference. The G90 is a good 11 grand more than my car but I don't need or want all of the extra stuff it has. Especially the rear seat entertainment system and the head rest screens on the rear of the front seats. My rear seats are almost never used and for sure they ain't used by me. I don't play with what I have now so for me a G90 would not be worth the money difference.

FWIW, when I got my first oil change last summer at the dealership near me, I sat in the 2017 G90 and it felt just like mine. To me the leather wasn't any softer but I imagine that it is quieter on the road but until I take a test drive, which I don't plan to do, I'm not positive that it is. Mine is pretty darn quiet. And I'm not allowed to get another car for who knows how long.

jmonroe

jmonroe said:

houdini1 said:

bwia said:

The G90's interior does indeed look sumptuous and a no excuse price tag to match.

I agree bwia. That is my idea of a very nice luxury automobile.

Did you get that 2016 Lexus LS yet?

As for the G90, my '15 Genny is now called a G80 and the interior is so much like the G90 I'd have to see them side by side to see the difference. The G90 is a good 11 grand more than my car but I don't need or want all of the extra stuff it has. Especially the rear seat entertainment system and the head rest screens on the rear of the front seats. My rear seats are almost never used and for sure they ain't used by me. I don't play with what I have now so for me a G90 would not be worth the money difference.

FWIW, when I got my first oil change last summer at the dealership near me, I sat in the 2017 G90 and it felt just like mine. To me the leather wasn't any softer but I imagine that it is quieter on the road but until I take a test drive, which I don't plan to do, I'm not positive that it is. Mine is pretty darn quiet. And I'm not allowed to get another car for who knows how long.

jmonroe

Yes. Brought it home Tuesday. They gave me $22,000. for my 2010 LS. Their price was $57,500. Plus $399. doc fee, so a diff. of about $36,000. The new one has 12,000 miles. I thought it was a pretty good deal for a 6 year upgrade. Three years still left on original warranty. Easy peasy deal. Love the car so far.

Good luck with it. It does sound like a good deal. Buying used is usually the best way to by a car. I otta know, I did that while raising a family. Not really sure why I don't do it anymore, maybe next time.

Since you have had a few Lexus before, you know what to expect and from what I have heard about them, 12,000 miles is barely past their break-in period.

Run the wheels off of it.

jmonroe

imidazol97

28firefighter said:

Current working theory is that a virus hit me and passed but in the process triggered my underlying auto-immune disease that I have thanks to Crohn's. A dose of steroids has helped immensely which supports that theory.

Stay tuned

Best of luck recovering.

imidazol97

houdini1 said:

I tried to update my profile, and the 2016 shows there but not on my posts. I know this has happened to others but I don't remember how to fix it. Help.

I believe I had to log off Edmunds. Then I rebooted my computer. Logged back onto Edmunds and Voila.

fintail

Good luck! You're able to waste time on here, that's a good sign Local medical care is pretty decent, I think, so hopefully they'll figure it out.

28firefighter said:

A dose of steroids has helped immensely which supports that theory.

Stay tuned

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

All - lots of posts to try and catch up on. 

I am still in the hospital but have deteriorated rapidly and am in the intensive care unit. I'm on the mend and things are looking up, but of the 7 teams consulting on my case, none seem to have a true answer as to what is on. All diagnostic labs are negative for viruses and bacterial infections. That's good but for the fact that I had 106 fever for 4 hours yesterday. 

Current working theory is that a virus hit me and passed but in the process triggered my underlying auto-immune disease that I have thanks to Crohn's. A dose of steroids has helped immensely which supports that theory.

Stay tuned

Wow! And you're a young guy. That's not supose to happen. Around here there is a problem with tick borne Lyme disease that's also tough to diagnose. Just yesterday someone got a tick bite and came down with some other virus that killed him. I assume your dictor's eliminated any tick related stuff.

Hope you get sprung soon.