Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

iluvmysephia1

oldfarmer50 - I will demand a CarFax from the dealer. That and an old-school test drive will be my litmus test on the Scion. Incidentally, I would rather buy this '16 Scion iA than a new Toyota Yaris iA anyway - there's something authentic about it that pleases me.

stickguy

the price is not that low to be all red alert over it. If a new 2018 version is selling for 15K, a 2 year old one has to be enough below that to make sense.

nice little car. I could have gotten something like that instead to sit around for spare time duty. Fine for an around town errand runner.

iluvmysephia1

The dealer's not fly-by-night, either. They won't offer much for my 2011 Kia Soul, but with a price like $9,999 we've both got plenty of wiggle room. I'll trade with them if they offer at least $3,500. Lower kills the deal for us.

abacomike

carnaught said:

@abacomike, Mike, after a busy several days in catching up on posts I was freaked to see the punch (posted on the CCBA board earlier), yet not surprised, after you rationalized keeping your 740i. After all, this is what we car lovers do!

Anyways, let me extend my congrats for your enjoyment and safe miles with that new beauty! Thinking about where you were in your life a year ago, I say you deserve it, and I am delighted for you. Keep us informed with your experience with it.

Thanks, Will. Much appreciated. Yes, it was an impulsive decision, but I've always been impulsive when it comes to cars - what can I say?

abacomike

graphicguy said:

Wait....what? I checked out of Edmunds less than 24 hours ago.

Check in this a.m. and Mike has turned his 740i in for an S class.

Beautiful car, Mike. Big congrats!

Thanks, GG. I do believe that the S Class this year is probably the most beautiful car in mass production. Car drives like a dream.

qbrozen

The iA is priced right at auction value

abacomike

I had to drive up to West Palm Beach to drop off the other two keys to the 740i at the Benz dealership this morning. I had my first opportunity - going and coming back - to use the autonomous Adaptive Cruise Control and auto-steering. The one-way trip is about 45 miles. On the way back, I pulled up the fuel economy screen and at 65 mph, I was getting 35.6 mpg. The average since I took delivery of the car is 27.2 mpg which includes stop and go driving for the first 5 miles.

Driving this car is truly effortless compared to the 740i. The BMW required much more driver input in terms of steering and maneuvering. But that's what BMW's are for - more "feel of the road" type of driving. I really like the wheels on this car and the fact that these are 20" wheels as opposed to the 18" or 19" I am accustomed to.

A week from Tuesday, I am driving up to my brother's place for Thanksgiving so I will have a lot of opportunity to "play with all the nanny technology" on this car. More impressions on the car to come as I go through the break-in period.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

I had to drive up to West Palm Beach to drop off the other two keys to the 740i at the Benz dealership this morning. I had my first opportunity - going and coming back - to use the autonomous Adaptive Cruise Control and auto-steering. The one-way trip is about 45 miles. On the way back, I pulled up the fuel economy screen and at 65 mph, I was getting 35.6 mpg. The average since I took delivery of the car is 27.2 mpg which includes stop and go driving for the first 5 miles.

Driving this car is truly effortless compared to the 740i. The BMW required much more driver input in terms of steering and maneuvering. But that's what BMW's are for - more "feel of the road" type of driving. I really like the wheels on this car and the fact that these are 20" wheels as opposed to the 18" or 19" I am accustomed to.

A week from Tuesday, I am driving up to my brother's place for Thanksgiving so I will have a lot of opportunity to "play with all the nanny technology" on this car. More impressions on the car to come as I go through the break-in period.

Very cool! Mike, I’d be interested to find out how long it took for the new car orientation given it has all the options as you point out.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

houdini1 said:

To all you Veterans out there, a heartfelt thank you, and I hope you have a great Veterans Day.

All the men in my family served but I think it's great that young people have a choice now.

I have to admit that had I had a choice I wouldn't have signed up. Not with Vietnam going on!

By pure luck and high test scores I managed to get into an Army Reserve unit just as I was about to get drafted. I wore the uniform, did the Basic Training thing. Weekend meetings and two week summer camps for six years but somehow I don't refer to myself as a "veteran". That term applies to the others that REALLY served!

isellhondas

abacomike said:

Here's my post from just a few days ago - I must be a pathological liar or something:

"...By the way, you disbelievers out there. My BMW 740 just turned 11,000 miles and is 11 months old (new?). Every time I look at some of the cars out there, the more I know I will be staying with the 740i. I don't feel like taking the big depreciation hit like I am used to taking - and for what it's worth - there really isn't anything out there that is "better than" what I now have. It still rides like a new car and handles like a new car. It has all the creature comforts one would want in a car and its safety features are top-notch.

I'm driving up to my brother's for Thanksgiving and my BMW is a great road car. I don't think I've owned a car with 11,000+ miles on it for over 20 years. It's already had one oil and filter change and will be due for another in 6500 miles. My Michelin tires still have lots of tread on them, so tires won't be a problem for quite some time."

When I posted the above, I really had no intention of getting a new car. But when you are thrown an unbelievable deal and you sniff it out, one becomes helpless. I'm a sucker for new cars, what can I say.

Did you get the paint and fab too? Congratulations!

Mr_Shiftright

iluvmysephia1 said:

oldfarmer50 - I will demand a CarFax from the dealer. That and an old-school test drive will be my litmus test on the Scion. Incidentally, I would rather buy this '16 Scion iA than a new Toyota Yaris iA anyway - there's something authentic about it that pleases me.

Post the VIN if you have it.

ab348

roadburner said:

I build cars that we can sell.

Up here at most of our dealers that means black, white or silver paint, all with black interiors. Please don't do that.

roadburner

ab348 said:

roadburner said:

I build cars that we can sell.

Up here at most of our dealers that means black, white or silver paint, all with black interiors. Please don't do that.

Nope, I built several in red as well as several shades of blue.

explorerx4

Mike,
Congrats on the Mercedes, although I wasn't sure what model it was.
It does look great.

Took a test drive this morning. Drove an hour and half to the dealer, got lost and showed up 45 minutes late for my appointment.
Drove the car for 20 minutes, didn't like it, then drove 1 1/2 hours home.
Different outcome than you!

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

Mike, Congrats on the Mercedes, although I wasn't sure what model it was. It does look great. Took a test drive this morning. Drove an hour and half to the dealer, got lost and showed up 45 minutes late for my appointment. Drove the car for 20 minutes, didn't like it, then drove 1 1/2 hours home. Different outcome than you!

I won't go that far for a car I have never driven. I'll find the closest one to home, regardless of price, and use it for a test drive before seeking out the right deal.

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
There were basically none very close, so I took a shot at the one I liked the best.

driver100

stickguy said:

roadburner said:

Well, the NCM gave me a new responsibility- ordering cars and modifying existing orders if necessary(and still possible). So today, in between a lease return, two deliveries, and a demonstration of the new X3 I modified the builds of 40 cars. Lots of fun, actually.

well, he is going to be really ticked off in a couple months when he has a lot full of RWD, manual trans, track package, moonroof delete, manual seat cars that he can't sell.

And all 2 Series bimmers.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

I had to drive up to West Palm Beach to drop off the other two keys to the 740i at the Benz dealership this morning. I had my first opportunity - going and coming back - to use the autonomous Adaptive Cruise Control and auto-steering. The one-way trip is about 45 miles. On the way back, I pulled up the fuel economy screen and at 65 mph, I was getting 35.6 mpg. The average since I took delivery of the car is 27.2 mpg which includes stop and go driving for the first 5 miles. Driving this car is truly effortless compared to the 740i. The BMW required much more driver input in terms of steering and maneuvering. But that's what BMW's are for - more "feel of the road" type of driving. I really like the wheels on this car and the fact that these are 20" wheels as opposed to the 18" or 19" I am accustomed to. A week from Tuesday, I am driving up to my brother's place for Thanksgiving so I will have a lot of opportunity to "play with all the nanny technology" on this car. More impressions on the car to come as I go through the break-in period.

Very cool! Mike, I’d be interested to find out how long it took for the new car orientation given it has all the options as you point out.

They had a young man spend 45 minutes with me. Then, this morning, another 30 minutes.  I still have a few items, but I am noting these questions on my iPhone so the next time i’m Up in Palm Beach, i’ll Have another orientation.

Voice recognition is much better in the 7 series BMW than in the S450.  At least that is my opinion at this point.

driver100

iluvmysephia1 said:

The dealer's not fly-by-night, either. They won't offer much for my 2011 Kia Soul, but with a price like $9,999 we've both got plenty of wiggle room. I'll trade with them if they offer at least $3,500. Lower kills the deal for us.

Stick once again makes an excellent point:
the price is not that low to be all red alert over it. If a new 2018 version is selling for 15K, a 2 year old one has to be enough below that to make sense.

$10000 for a new cars sounds terrific...but, everything is relative. It has well over one years worth of driving, and it is 2 years old.

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

Mike, Congrats on the Mercedes, although I wasn't sure what model it was. It does look great. Took a test drive this morning. Drove an hour and half to the dealer, got lost and showed up 45 minutes late for my appointment. Drove the car for 20 minutes, didn't like it, then drove 1 1/2 hours home. Different outcome than you!

I didn’t have an appointment but I also didn’t expect to get a new car.  

abacomike

isellhondas said:

Here's my post from just a few days ago - I must be a pathological liar or something: "...By the way, you disbelievers out there. My BMW 740 just turned 11,000 miles and is 11 months old (new?). Every time I look at some of the cars out there, the more I know I will be staying with the 740i. I don't feel like taking the big depreciation hit like I am used to taking - and for what it's worth - there really isn't anything out there that is "better than" what I now have. It still rides like a new car and handles like a new car. It has all the creature comforts one would want in a car and its safety features are top-notch. I'm driving up to my brother's for Thanksgiving and my BMW is a great road car. I don't think I've owned a car with 11,000+ miles on it for over 20 years. It's already had one oil and filter change and will be due for another in 6500 miles. My Michelin tires still have lots of tread on them, so tires won't be a problem for quite some time." When I posted the above, I really had no intention of getting a new car. But when you are thrown an unbelievable deal and you sniff it out, one becomes helpless. I'm a sucker for new cars, what can I say.

Did you get the paint and fab too? Congratulations!

Thanks, isel.

driver100

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

abacomike said:

I had to drive up to West Palm Beach to drop off the other two keys to the 740i at the Benz dealership this morning. I had my first opportunity - going and coming back - to use the autonomous Adaptive Cruise Control and auto-steering. The one-way trip is about 45 miles. On the way back, I pulled up the fuel economy screen and at 65 mph, I was getting 35.6 mpg. The average since I took delivery of the car is 27.2 mpg which includes stop and go driving for the first 5 miles.

Driving this car is truly effortless compared to the 740i. The BMW required much more driver input in terms of steering and maneuvering. But that's what BMW's are for - more "feel of the road" type of driving. I really like the wheels on this car and the fact that these are 20" wheels as opposed to the 18" or 19" I am accustomed to.

A week from Tuesday, I am driving up to my brother's place for Thanksgiving so I will have a lot of opportunity to "play with all the nanny technology" on this car. More impressions on the car to come as I go through the break-in period.

Very cool! Mike, I’d be interested to find out how long it took for the new car orientation given it has all the options as you point out.

They had a young man spend 45 minutes with me. Then, this morning, another 30 minutes.  I still have a few items, but I am noting these questions on my iPhone so the next time i’m Up in Palm Beach, i’ll Have another orientation.

Voice recognition is much better in the 7 series BMW than in the S450.  At least that is my opinion at this point.

BMWs are built in more Northerly Germany, you need to pick up a Southern German drawl.

cdnpinhead

abacomike said:

The BMW required much more driver input in terms of steering and maneuvering.

Imagine.

As we (some of us more than others) continue the journey to self-driving vehicles.

cdnpinhead

driver100 said:

BMWs are built in more Northerly Germany, you need to pick up a Southern German drawl.

Hmmm. Who knew? I thought Bavaria was in Southern Germany.

You can learn something new every day on the internet.

stickguy

BMW is Bavaria. Guess MB is more North.

jmonroe

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

Mike, for the record...I think that gray is a great color for that car. Most S's are black. The gray looks formal but adds some life to the car. That car is special..............so nicely designed.

I'm going to try to convince myself that, "The gray looks formal but adds some life to the car". Once I'm convinced, I'll try it on Mrs. j and see if her imagination can play tricks on her too.

jmonroe

The Mercedes can pull it off....the wannabe, not so much.

I had to do this to convince myself.

I gave the Genny a quick wash and micro cloth dry in the garage (it was pretty cool here in the Burgh today) then I quickly took it outside while the sun was still shining at about noon time. Amazingly the Genny looked pretty damn nice today. I'm thinking this head game thing is starting to working. As I'm walking around the car inspecting it, my neighbor from across the street comes over and wants to know if I'm looking for scratches. I told him the story about the color and he said, "are you kidding? I liked this color from the first time I saw it when you got this car a couple years ago. You're being way to critical about the color. If you don't like it, I'll be happy to put this car in my driveway, right now". OK that did it, I think I'm now totally convinced that there is no problem with the color.

Now how do you think I should go about telling Mrs. j she is all wet?

jmonroe

stickguy

if your car is the same color as Mike's new S class, you can tell her that I said it. Heck, she won't drive all the way over past Philly to whack me with a fry pan. Right?

I am really happy so far with getting the white on my new car. really wanted something outside of the silver/gray family. Really debated the red, which looked sharp on the Sport, but was worried that it would grow old.

abacomike

jmonroe said:

Mike, for the record...I think that gray is a great color for that car. Most S's are black. The gray looks formal but adds some life to the car. That car is special..............so nicely designed.

I'm going to try to convince myself that, "The gray looks formal but adds some life to the car". Once I'm convinced, I'll try it on Mrs. j and see if her imagination can play tricks on her too. jmonroe

The Mercedes can pull it off....the wannabe, not so much.

I had to do this to convince myself. I gave the Genny a quick wash and micro cloth dry in the garage (it was pretty cool here in the Burgh today) then I quickly took it outside while the sun was still shining at about noon time. Amazingly the Genny looked pretty damn nice today. I'm thinking this head game thing is starting to working. As I'm walking around the car inspecting it, my neighbor from across the street comes over and wants to know if I'm looking for scratches. I told him the story about the color and he said, "are you kidding? I liked this color from the first time I saw it when you got this car a couple years ago. You're being way to critical about the color. If you don't like it, I'll be happy to put this car in my driveway, right now". OK that did it, I think I'm now totally convinced that there is no problem with the color. Now how do you think I should go about telling Mrs. j she is all wet? jmonroe

I would first take her out for a nice candlelight dinner and make sure the waiter keeps the “bubbly” coming.  Then, drive home and put on the movie, “Fifty Shades Of Gray”!  After the movie, pour her a glass of the “bubbly” and spring on her the fact that GRAY or GREY are rich and distinguished looking colors.  I think she’ll come around nicely to your way of thinking! 

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Took a test drive this morning. Drove an hour and half to the dealer, got lost and showed up 45 minutes late for my appointment.
Drove the car for 20 minutes, didn't like it, then drove 1 1/2 hours home.

What did you drive?

iluvmysephia1

shifty - the 2016 Scion iA's VIN # is 3MYDLBZV6GY130837.

cdnpinhead

stickguy said:

BMW is Bavaria. Guess MB is more North.

Well, not exactly. While BMW hails from Bavaria (Munich), MB delivers most of their cars in Sindelfingen, not far from Stuttgart, admittedly north of Munich. Both are in southern Germany.

I stumbled into Sindelfingn one Friday because of the excellent weekend deal the Mariott offered and learned about the MB connection. In any event, I've spent a fair amount of time in southern Germany, and not so much in the north. My first visit to Germany was to Hamburg, but haven't been much north of Dusseldorf since.

explorerx4

@cdnpinhead,
Do you have Gephyrophobia? Hamburg has around 2500.

Mr_Shiftright

Damn! I think I caught that itch from Mike:

http://www.carprices.com/details/Used+2007+Porsche+Cayman+2D Coupe+WP0AA29867U761768?id=porscheoflivermore&city=sfbay.craigslist.org&confsource=CraigsList

Mr_Shiftright

iluvmysephia1 said:

shifty - the 2016 Scion iA's VIN # is 3MYDLBZV6GY130837.

Total Loss Vehicle--Branded Title 2/21/2017 Morton Washington. No other info.

iluvmysephia1

That does that, then. Holding on to the '11 Kia Soul. Thanks for finding that out, shifty.

abacomike

Mr_Shiftright said:

Damn! I think I caught that itch from Mike: http://www.carprices.com/details/Used+2007+Porsche+Cayman+2D Coupe+WP0AA29867U761768?id=porscheoflivermore&city=sfbay.craigslist.org&confsource=CraigsList

And I caught it from my Dad.  My brother caught it from Dad, too.  It’s a “chronic” itch that surfaces at least once a year, if not more.  

abacomike

I noticed this evening coming home from having dinner with an acquaintance that the new S450 also has that self-parking feature for parallel and pull-in parking.  I had my directional signal on and an alert flashed on my dash stating “searching for parking space”!  So I looked it up and sure enough, it can park itself.  No way am I letting my car park itself - no way in purgatory!

It also has the ability for remote starting.  I have the Mercedes App on my phone - one option is to send a signal to the car to start itself and heat or cool the car, depending on temperature.  No way am I letting my car start itself, but in wintry weather, that would be a great feature.

cdnpinhead

explorerx4 said:

Do you have Gephyrophobia? Hamburg has around 2500.

No, I love bridges. And yes, I had to look it up. What prompted you to ask?

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

driver100 said:

BMWs are built in more Northerly Germany, you need to pick up a Southern German drawl.

Hmmm. Who knew? I thought Bavaria was in Southern Germany.

You can learn something new every day on the internet.

Mercedes and BMWs are built in various cities in Germany. The Mercedes plant we toured was in Stuttgart, which is South of 2 cities where BMWs are made, Regensberg, and Leipzig. BMWs are made in Munich which would be South of Stuttgart.

Anyway, it was just an off the cuff remark, not to be taken literally.

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

stickguy said:

BMW is Bavaria. Guess MB is more North.

Well, not exactly. While BMW hails from Bavaria (Munich), MB delivers most of their cars in Sindelfingen, not far from Stuttgart, admittedly north of Munich. Both are in southern Germany.

I stumbled into Sindelfingn one Friday because of the excellent weekend deal the Mariott offered and learned about the MB connection. In any event, I've spent a fair amount of time in southern Germany, and not so much in the north. My first visit to Germany was to Hamburg, but haven't been much north of Dusseldorf since.

As stated below, at least 2 BMW plants are North of Stuttgart - where MBs come from. BMWs are also made in Dingolfing but I can't find it on the map.

driver100

cdnpinhead said:

explorerx4 said:

Do you have Gephyrophobia? Hamburg has around 2500.

No, I love bridges. And yes, I had to look it up. What prompted you to ask?

Hamburg has more bridges than......Venice....according to our tour guide.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

houdini1 said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

jmonroe said:

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just came back from the Credit Union which had offered me a lower rate on my car loan. The monthly figures the hey quoted indicated a savings of about $12 a month. I was half way through signing the papers when I noticed the term was for 36 months not the 33 months I had left on the old loan. When i had her recalculate the figures it turned out they were saving me 64 cents a month. She had almost pulled the old F & I trick of lowering the monthly by extending the term.

You can't trust anyone any more.

We had a dimwit come in with a pre-approved CU loan; the CU loan had a prepayment penalty AND charged a $199 "origination fee." We offered her a loan with no fees or penalties with a lower APR than the CU and she still insisted on using he CU.
You can't fix stupid.

In a way, I'm surprised a BMW Genius couldn't get through to her but even a Genius can't fix real stupid.

jmonroe

She wasn't my client; I heard about it later.

That should have been the time they called in their Genius.

Maybe the F&I guy ain't all that bright either.

jmonroe

I think I have mentioned before that my wife insists that we only pay cash when we buy a car. A few years ago as we were closing a transaction, the salesman said we could get 36 months financing at 0% interest. I said great, I can make a little interest for 3 years. Wife says nope, I don't want any payments and I don't want a lien on the car. We'll pay cash. I put my foot down and countered with, "Yes dear".

So how do you bring the money, in a shopping bag or a suitcase. I only pay cash under $5,000

That reminds me, the guy I bought the Mustang Cobra from wanted cash....not a cashier’s check....CASH. I told him to meet me at my bank, but for some reason, he said he couldn’t. So, here I go with a stack of Benjamins, tucked in a brown paper bag, from my bank to his house. Weird carrying that amount of money on me. I kept thinking...”what happens if I have an accident and have to go to the hospital and have my car towed? Will I remember having that money?”

How about “someone saw me come out of the bank with a brown paper bag and assume I have cash it in and they try to Rob me?”.

Strange thoughts.

For the TLX, I took the check I got from Cadillac on the buy back, and signed it over to the dealership. They gave me another check back for the rest of the refunded amount.

You're lucky you didn't end up as part of his basement floor.

Meeting some one with cash is a standard CL robbery scenario. I've brought cash to some car transactions but leave it hidden in the car just in case. I've always met at the sellers home or workplace.

OF....you’re right. I thought about that...AFTER THE FACT!

There were plenty of ways that the deal could have gone sideways, and none of them good. Fortunately, it was a safe and smooth transaction.

I don’t know why, but having met the previous Mustang owner a few times previously, I didn’t get any sense of foreboding.

But, that’s what they say about most serial killers....”He was so nice. I never suspected he was a murderer.”

IIRC that transaction to

qbrozen said:

The iA is priced right at auction value

Ignore this glitching again.

roadburner

abacomike said:

I noticed this evening coming home from having dinner with an acquaintance that the new S450 also has that self-parking feature for parallel and pull-in parking.  I had my directional signal on and an alert flashed on my dash stating “searching for parking space”!  So I looked it up and sure enough, it can park itself.  No way am I letting my car park itself - no way in purgatory!

It also has the ability for remote starting.  I have the Mercedes App on my phone - one option is to send a signal to the car to start itself and heat or cool the car, depending on temperature.  No way am I letting my car start itself, but in wintry weather, that would be a great feature.

I've demonstrated the self-parking feature several times in 5ers and 7ers- both parallel and perpendicular. No issues yet.

As an aside, the i3 will parallel park itself, but to me it's akin to needing AWD to drive in the rain- if you can't parallel park a 157" car you should spend your money on public transit and don't subject other road users to your pathetic attempts at operating a motor vehicle.

suydam

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:

explorerx4 said:

Do you have Gephyrophobia? Hamburg has around 2500.

No, I love bridges. And yes, I had to look it up. What prompted you to ask?

Hamburg has more bridges than......Venice....according to our tour guide.

True, but nowhere near as picturesque.

explorerx4

@cdnpinhead,
It was part wise crack, part opportunity to educate.
Other than that, just a question.

oldfarmer50

ok let's see if I got rid of all the garbage.

Seems good now.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Damn! I think I caught that itch from Mike: http://www.carprices.com/details/Used+2007+Porsche+Cayman+2D Coupe+WP0AA29867U761768?id=porscheoflivermore&city=sfbay.craigslist.org&confsource=CraigsList

Even in CA, that is way overpriced. $7500 over auction, to be precise. That is more than 50% markup. Is that a car dealer or furniture store?!

28firefighter

You mean a base Cayman of that vintage is going across the blocks at $14k?  Wow. That’s a bargain. 

tifighter

cdnpinhead said:

stickguy said:

BMW is Bavaria. Guess MB is more North.

Well, not exactly. While BMW hails from Bavaria (Munich), MB delivers most of their cars in Sindelfingen, not far from Stuttgart, admittedly north of Munich. Both are in southern Germany.

I stumbled into Sindelfingn one Friday because of the excellent weekend deal the Mariott offered and learned about the MB connection. In any event, I've spent a fair amount of time in southern Germany, and not so much in the north. My first visit to Germany was to Hamburg, but haven't been much north of Dusseldorf since.

I've driven from Stuttgart to Munich. South and East. Well, I stopped in Ulm for a xmas festival. And I was in a VW Caravelle TDI, which it turns out can do about 115 on the autobahn.

Wait, what was my point again?

driver100

suydam said:

driver100 said:

cdnpinhead said:

explorerx4 said:

Do you have Gephyrophobia? Hamburg has around 2500.

No, I love bridges. And yes, I had to look it up. What prompted you to ask?

Hamburg has more bridges than......Venice....according to our tour guide.

True, but nowhere near as picturesque.

True, but I would rather go to Hamburg than Venice if I was to go back. Venice is nice to see, but been there done that, got lost like everyone else. Also crowds, high prices....tourist trap atmosphere. Hamburg is busy, energetic, with it, smart, and has Miniature Wunderland!