*Driver, I am going to play Devil's advocate and defend Audi on this one. Audi spent the better part of 20 years rehabilitating its reputation that was tainted by 60 minutes. And here you come taking them down that road again.
An automobile is a complex machine and like all machines (especially a clutch that is exposed to frequent and unorthodox use) will break down, be it at 10K or 100K miles. Furthermore, the driver input has a lot to do with how long a clutch lasts. I remember driving with two guys (mechanical engineers to boot) who destroyed clutches (Saab 9-3) with impunity although they claimed to be good drivers. Not because someone can drive a standard shift vehicle are they an expert on all models.
Besides, unless you can prove that the clutch was defective and as a result failed prematurely it would not be covered by a standard warranty; it is a simply considered normal wear and tear like brakes or tires. So suck it up lick your wounds and ask your spouse and daughter to take driver-ed classes. (just joking.)
With that said I would pay the $1,650 and insist that the replacement clutch be covered by a warranty for as long as you own the car.
I don't mind anyone playing devil's avocate......when it makes sense! I often do that myself, I like to do it because it draws out new ideas or different ways to look at something.
In this case, all the evidence points to the car. My wife and daughter used the bmw the same way, and that car went 40K miles without a clutch proble, My wife had a 92 Saab 9-3, MG, Volvos, all standards, and our daughter drove them as well......never a problem.
She is not racing, starting fast, double clutching on curves or anything out of the ordinary. I agree there is maybe a 5% chance one of them did it somehow, but, I say since the only variable is the car....it is an Audi defect. And, I am very surprised that they consider you are guilty as soon as the car comes in....it can't be a manufacturing defect! And yet, there are lots of cases where clutches have failed, one poor guy at under 2000 miles.
I think they should pay for it all, but, i think I am being more than reasonable in offering to pay 50%, for what 99% of the people would say, is a manufacturing problem.
What if you bought a new car and the automatic transmission burned up. And, the manufacturer said it can't be us, it must have been the way you drove the car. How can you defend yourself?
In my case, I think the clutch plate didn't go back properly...probably a broken spring or however they work. I am sure they have replaced the part on my old parts. Now, all I really have left is common sense.....unless you still want to play devil's advocate
I could understand your position regarding Audi if Mrs. Driver had gone through clutches quickly on her 335xi and/or her Passat. But there I no evidence of that. There is no excuse for a clutch to malfunction after only 10,000 miles and in just a year's time. It had to be a defective clutch!
I have not heard of anyone going through a clutch in just 10,000 miles in my entire life. It has to be an embarrassment for an Audi technician to have to replace a clutch in a brand new car so soon. There are many cases of clutch failures on Audi vehicles in the past 2 years as evidenced by the research many of our posters have undertaken on Driver's behalf.
If this was truly the owner's fault, why was Audi so quick to cut the cost to $1650 (which is outrageous to begin with)? As I mentioned in a previous post, if the dealership went to bat 100% for Driver, the clutch would have been replaced under warranty.
My dealership went to bat for me and was able to get my replacement car built with an upgraded Driver Assistance Package whether Mercedes paid for it or not. Additionally, my dealer is losing a few thousand on my trade by keeping the ACV at the October levels for mid December for my trade. It has everything to do with the dealership and what they do for their customers.
Exactly Mike....and I think bwia is just having some fun! Which isn't a problem....just getting a reaction.
I think in your case your MB dealer has a lot more clout than my little Audi dealer. I really do think they tried. They sounded like they were on my side, I think they got Audi to pay for the 50% off parts, and they took a hit on the 10% labor charge. But, Audi H.O. has left them out to dry, which is a shame because I liked that dealership, but, they could lose a good customer.
If I really believed there was a chance we are responsible for the clutch meltdown I would just pay it. I think the possibility is so small, that Ican't just pay up.
Your MB dealer has probably gone out of their way to keep you happy. They have a personal relationship with you, and they want to keep you. I get the impression MB is really trying to build relationships and a loyal following....I have been treated like a king at my MB dealership. I won't know until I really need them, but, so far they have been helpful in every way. Even offered to come to the house to install the manual. Free car wash 6 days a week from 9 to 5. That's how to really win and keep customers. My wife and I are thinking C Class for her, though I kind of like to have two different brands.....not too many eggs in one basket.
Of all manufacturer's to act that way, the last I would have considered would be Audi given how they had to climb back from the brink after the 60 Minutes blood bath. You'd think they'd be much more tuned into their customer to retain them after that fiasco.
Let us know how it turns out.
Well, remember that the 60 Minutes piece aired in 1986. I can just about guarantee that nobody at Audi in senior management was with the company 28 years ago. I was struck in my time at my last job in a senior exec role how little any of us knew about the past history of the place. We all came in from elsewhere and the past was not something any of them cared about very much. I would be tempted to say they are oblivious to that '80s event.
Driver, I would not even pay 50% of the cost of the clutch replacement. I am more of a stickler for demanding what is fair and expected from a car and its manufacturer. It's like your brakes wearing out in 10,000 miles - something that is unheard of in today's vehicles - even in constant use in an inner-city with stop and go driving.
The clutch was bad or installed at manufacture improperly or adjusted incorrectly. It was definitely not worn out or burned up by your wife - not in 10,000 miles and in just one year of ownership.
If I was told by my service department that I burned out my clutch, I would have taken it to a second Audi dealership's service department and asked them to tell you how you could have burned out a clutch in just 10,000 miles before the clutch was tampered with by the other service department.
Something is rotten in Denmark, Driver, and it certainly isn't Hamlet!
Driver, I would not even pay 50% of the cost of the clutch replacement. I am more of a stickler for demanding what is fair and expected from a car and its manufacturer. It's like your brakes wearing out in 10,000 miles - something that is unheard of in today's vehicles - even in constant use in an inner-city with stop and go driving.
The clutch was bad or installed at manufacture improperly or adjusted incorrectly. It was definitely not worn out or burned up by your wife - not in 10,000 miles and in just one year of ownership.
If I was told by my service department that I burned out my clutch, I would have taken it to a second Audi dealership's service department and asked them to tell you how you could have burned out a clutch in just 10,000 miles before the clutch was tampered with by the other service department.
Something is rotten in Denmark, Driver, and it certainly isn't Hamlet!
I have fought these kind of battles before and I usually do win...not 100% but enough to make it acceptable. I once won an arguement with Bell telephone, they wanted to charge $250 in roaming charges. I got to upper management and then a light came on...I said I could prove I didn't talk on the phone for 5 hours. He said, oh yeh, how you going to do that? This was a few years ago when phones weren't efficient, I said my phone won't last on roaming for more than 20 minutes. He said then let's split the bill. I said no, it's all or nothing or I go to the government. I said I would pay for 15 minutes, though the call was for about 4 minutes. He said he'd make it zero, but, if it happened again I'd be charged. I switched companies and they pleaded with me to come back.
It is very difficult to go to court or even the free mediation service. I'll do it if I have to. If they don't give me half, that is what I will do....just as a matter of principle, and if I do that I would go for the full amount.
However, if they settle for half I'll save myself the aggravation. I think I would have won the moral victory and that's more important for now.
When I was in high school a classmate was given a brand new VW by his parents. He managed to destroy his clutch in the first month he owned the car.
I went on numerous demo drives with people who had no business buying a car with a manual transmission. They would sllllllip the clutch taking off and they would shift too soon and slip the heck out of the clutch between gears. I would sit there and cringe.
That said, since the drivers of this Audi were experienced with manuals and had not had problems like this in the past I doubt if this is what has happened in this case.
40,000 miles? I would blame it on the driver but not 10,000.
Audi should eat this 100%.
The store where I worked got to the point where they would NOT resell certain makes of cars that were taken as trades. Audis are on that list along with Land Rovers, most Volvos and most Volkswagens. Still, I can't remember a clutch problem with Audis. Mostly electrical niggling (EXPENSIVE TO FIX) and engine problems on higher mileage ones.
BMWS and Mercedes were CAREFULLY inspected and if they were exceptional they usually were just fine.
We just didn't want the headaches and unhappy customers.
I have a friend who is one of the SF Bay Area's recognized Audi experts. This guy fixes Audis that Audi can't fix. I will ask him his opinion on this.
Oh that would be a really big help. If I go to arbitration I will need as much material as possible.
I am almost hoping they don't accept my offer to pay half and they pay half. Arbitration is held in a hotel or similar fascility as close to home as possible. You can have a lawyer but not necessary. Apparently Audi won't be represented by a lawyer. It sounds like there is no cost, and you just discuss the problem, and the monitor rules.
Might be an interesting experience. I wonder if Audi lets it go that far.
Well they'll have to pay somebody to be there. Arbitration is tricky because many arbitrators tend to split things down the middle. Also, are you allowed to choose, or vote on, the arbitrator, to make sure he is not in Audi's pocket? You really want an impartial person with impeccable credentials. He / She does not have to be an automotive expert.
You might also review the rules--is the arbitration binding or can you refuse the judgment and go from there?
Well they'll have to pay somebody to be there. Arbitration is tricky because many arbitrators tend to split things down the middle. Also, are you allowed to choose, or vote on, the arbitrator, to make sure he is not in Audi's pocket? You really want an impartial person with impeccable credentials. He / She does not have to be an automotive expert.
You might also review the rules--is the arbitration binding or can you refuse the judgment and go from there?
CAMVAP (Canadian Automobile Motor Vehicle Arbitration Program) is run by the government and is free.
Your right, the arbitrator does not have to be an expert but can call on experts for advice.
Yes, the ruling is binding. To quote, "The arbitrator’s written decision is called an Award. Once the arbitrator gives an Award, the case is over. Neither you nor the manufacturer can appeal the decision and both of you must do what is necessary to carry out the arbitrator’s decision"
Your dispute must either be about manufacturing defects or where you feel the manufacturer is not honouring the new vehicle warranty.
An arbitrator can order that the manufacturer do one or more of the following:
Repair your vehicle at its expense; Buy your vehicle back at a price set by a formula (with or without a reduction for use); Reimburse you for previous repairs; Reimburse you up to $500 for diagnostic testing of your vehicle done prior to the date of your hearing; Reimburse you for certain out-of-pocket expenses up to $500; Reimburse you up to $100 of your total costs to summons witnesses.
You can't use CAMVAP and go to court. It's one or the other. You don't get paid for emotional stress etc. But, this seems to suit my purposes. We aren't back until April, so hopefully there isn't some time limit. I suppose I could fly back and claim $500 out of pocket expenses. I'll have to see what the filing limits are.
I'd like to read what goes on in some of these cases. It would be interesting to know some statistics...like which manufacturers are called up most often. What problems have people had?
Audi will have to send a representative, that could cost more than the $500 I am trying to get off of them!!!!!! Also, they will be gambling, I may get my $500 I would settle for, or I may get the full $2350 covered. Kind of like a poker game, or chicken!
Well they'll have to pay somebody to be there. Arbitration is tricky because many arbitrators tend to split things down the middle. Also, are you allowed to choose, or vote on, the arbitrator, to make sure he is not in Audi's pocket? You really want an impartial person with impeccable credentials. He / She does not have to be an automotive expert.
You might also review the rules--is the arbitration binding or can you refuse the judgment and go from there?
CAMVAP (Canadian Automobile Motor Vehicle Arbitration Program) is run by the government and is free.
Your right, the arbitrator does not have to be an expert but can call on experts for advice.
Yes, the ruling is binding. To quote, "The arbitrator’s written decision is called an Award. Once the arbitrator gives an Award, the case is over. Neither you nor the manufacturer can appeal the decision and both of you must do what is necessary to carry out the arbitrator’s decision"
Your dispute must either be about manufacturing defects or where you feel the manufacturer is not honouring the new vehicle warranty.
An arbitrator can order that the manufacturer do one or more of the following:
Repair your vehicle at its expense; Buy your vehicle back at a price set by a formula (with or without a reduction for use); Reimburse you for previous repairs; Reimburse you up to $500 for diagnostic testing of your vehicle done prior to the date of your hearing; Reimburse you for certain out-of-pocket expenses up to $500; Reimburse you up to $100 of your total costs to summons witnesses.
You can't use CAMVAP and go to court. It's one or the other. You don't get paid for emotional stress etc. But, this seems to suit my purposes. We aren't back until April, so hopefully there isn't some time limit. I suppose I could fly back and claim $500 out of pocket expenses. I'll have to see what the filing limits are.
I'd like to read what goes on in some of these cases. It would be interesting to know some statistics...like which manufacturers are called up most often. What problems have people had?
Audi will have to send a representative, that could cost more than the $500 I am trying to get off of them!!!!!! Also, they will be gambling, I may get my $500 I would settle for, or I may get the full $2350 covered. Kind of like a poker game, or chicken!
If you want to find out more, Goggle CAMVAP statistics. CAMVAP Ontario also brings up statistics and a few other interesting items.
Given that the arbitrator in this case has quite a bit of power, I think I'd be comfortable with a binding arbitration. He/she can essentially do the same thing as a court can command.
As for advice, all I can say about that is to avoid hysterics at any cost
Well they'll have to pay somebody to be there. Arbitration is tricky because many arbitrators tend to split things down the middle. Also, are you allowed to choose, or vote on, the arbitrator, to make sure he is not in Audi's pocket? You really want an impartial person with impeccable credentials. He / She does not have to be an automotive expert.
You might also review the rules--is the arbitration binding or can you refuse the judgment and go from there?
CAMVAP (Canadian Automobile Motor Vehicle Arbitration Program) is run by the government and is free.
Your right, the arbitrator does not have to be an expert but can call on experts for advice.
Yes, the ruling is binding. To quote, "The arbitrator’s written decision is called an Award. Once the arbitrator gives an Award, the case is over. Neither you nor the manufacturer can appeal the decision and both of you must do what is necessary to carry out the arbitrator’s decision"
Your dispute must either be about manufacturing defects or where you feel the manufacturer is not honouring the new vehicle warranty.
An arbitrator can order that the manufacturer do one or more of the following:
Repair your vehicle at its expense; Buy your vehicle back at a price set by a formula (with or without a reduction for use); Reimburse you for previous repairs; Reimburse you up to $500 for diagnostic testing of your vehicle done prior to the date of your hearing; Reimburse you for certain out-of-pocket expenses up to $500; Reimburse you up to $100 of your total costs to summons witnesses.
You can't use CAMVAP and go to court. It's one or the other. You don't get paid for emotional stress etc. But, this seems to suit my purposes. We aren't back until April, so hopefully there isn't some time limit. I suppose I could fly back and claim $500 out of pocket expenses. I'll have to see what the filing limits are.
I'd like to read what goes on in some of these cases. It would be interesting to know some statistics...like which manufacturers are called up most often. What problems have people had?
Audi will have to send a representative, that could cost more than the $500 I am trying to get off of them!!!!!! Also, they will be gambling, I may get my $500 I would settle for, or I may get the full $2350 covered. Kind of like a poker game, or chicken!
If you want to find out more, Goggle CAMVAP statistics. CAMVAP Ontario also brings up statistics and a few other interesting items.
Thanks venture and ab. Those are really good articles and should be very helpful. I will read more but I read about the guy who fought Toyota and won...it seems pretty easily.
I was thinking, in the Toyota case, in GGs case and in my case, the car companies would be way further ahead if they just helped fix the problem. They actually lost by being stubborn and not taking a sensible approach, and admitting they were at fault.
GGs case highlights this perfectly. They should have taken back his lemon immediately, it didn't take much to see the car was never going to get fixed. Given him another one and he may be driving it happily today....and if it is as good as they think it is he may buy another one, and tell his friends how much he likes it.
The Toyota guy's problem could have been solved if they fixed the car in the first place, but, they had to go through the whole process and still lost.
In my case they may win, but, something will have to go seriously wrong for them to win this one. I'll have to have a really bad day, or mess up the paperwork. And, what have they done, just alienated a customer and by the time I tell people well over 100 possible customers will be lost.
There is a rule in retail: It is much easier to keep a current customer, than it is to obtain a new customer. Look at the $100 spent on free test drives to lure a new buyer...all Audi has to do is do the right thing.
Given that the arbitrator in this case has quite a bit of power, I think I'd be comfortable with a binding arbitration. He/she can essentially do the same thing as a court can command.
As for advice, all I can say about that is to avoid hysterics at any cost
I agree 100%. I think you have to be very business like. Almost act like the case is open and shut...why be hysterical when any idiot can see there is no reason a car company shouldn't honor their warranty if a part wears out way before it should.
I'll be just like Perry Mason or the Lincoln Lawyer, no shouting about what kind of fool do they take me for. Selling me a junky cars that falls apart after 10k miles! Don't worry...although that would be fun!
Yesterday I bit the bullet and sold my beloved 2002 Tacoma 4-door 4X4 pick-up. Just didn't need it any more and hated to see it just languish in the garage and taking up space. I had a dealer offer me $6500, Carmax about the same. Too many miles they said (157,000). I had it for 4 years and it has been a great little truck.
I had never sold anything on Craigslist but decided to give it a try. My wife wanted me to take the $6500. and not risk getting killed by some crazy on C/L. Posted an ad asking $10,500. and immediately started getting emails, etc. I began corresponding with a guy who sent me the first email. He seemed intelligent and polite. We settled on a price of $10,000.
Long story short, he and his wife showed up yesterday with a certified check for the $10,000. They were extremely nice, took about a 30 minute test drive, came back gave me the check and I signed over the title.
I bought the truck 4 years ago for $9,000 and spend another $1100. on brakes, timing chain and water pump. The young man who bought the truck was very knowledgeable about Tacoma's and would have paid the full asking price. I just gave him $500. off for being so nice and easy to deal with.
Darn it, the only problem is that I MISS MY TRUCK !!! But I do know it is in good hands.
Which just reinforces what I have been saying. Used car prices are too high, used truck prices are even worse, and the price for a used Tacoma is absolutely insane. If at all possible, and I mean any way at all possible, just buy new.
On 2nd thought, there is an exception, that being for luxury cars which depreciate like crazy. But then who in their right mind would want to own a used Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc, once it is out of warranty? (ducking for cover and donning flame retardant suit... )
Yesterday I bit the bullet and sold my beloved 2002 Tacoma 4-door 4X4 pick-up. Just didn't need it any more and hated to see it just languish in the garage and taking up space. I had a dealer offer me $6500, Carmax about the same. Too many miles they said (157,000). I had it for 4 years and it has been a great little truck.
I had never sold anything on Craigslist but decided to give it a try. My wife wanted me to take the $6500. and not risk getting killed by some crazy on C/L. Posted an ad asking $10,500. and immediately started getting emails, etc. I began corresponding with a guy who sent me the first email. He seemed intelligent and polite. We settled on a price of $10,000.
Long story short, he and his wife showed up yesterday with a certified check for the $10,000. They were extremely nice, took about a 30 minute test drive, came back gave me the check and I signed over the title.
I bought the truck 4 years ago for $9,000 and spend another $1100. on brakes, timing chain and water pump. The young man who bought the truck was very knowledgeable about Tacoma's and would have paid the full asking price. I just gave him $500. off for being so nice and easy to deal with.
Darn it, the only problem is that I MISS MY TRUCK !!! But I do know it is in good hands.
Henryn has a point. I just checked and you can get a new Tacoma for about $21K. I suppose a 4 door with some options would come to say $30K...maybe a bit more.
Someone is paying $10K for a 2002 with about 3/4s of the life gone and with no warranty. Tires, battery etc that will all need replacing. I am betting it will be cheaper to buy a new Tacoma and drive it for 10 years, pay it off, and get 5 or 6 bonus years of no payment driving....save up for your next one.
I would have to say that you got ALL the money for your truck.
Used Toyota trucks do bring crazy money and there are people who aren't afraid of high miles on a well maintained car. It could easily do another 100K.
I would have to say that you got ALL the money for your truck.
Used Toyota trucks do bring crazy money and there are people who aren't afraid of high miles on a well maintained car. It could easily do another 100K.
I think the right buyer fell in your lap!
Hey, give the houdini some credit.....he did write the ad and he did the sales con job.
Thanks venture and ab. Those are really good articles and should be very helpful. I will read more but I read about the guy who fought Toyota and won...it seems pretty easily.
I was thinking, in the Toyota case, in GGs case and in my case, the car companies would be way further ahead if they just helped fix the problem. They actually lost by being stubborn and not taking a sensible approach, and admitting they were at fault.
GGs case highlights this perfectly. They should have taken back his lemon immediately, it didn't take much to see the car was never going to get fixed. Given him another one and he may be driving it happily today....and if it is as good as they think it is he may buy another one, and tell his friends how much he likes it.
The Toyota guy's problem could have been solved if they fixed the car in the first place, but, they had to go through the whole process and still lost.
In my case they may win, but, something will have to go seriously wrong for them to win this one. I'll have to have a really bad day, or mess up the paperwork. And, what have they done, just alienated a customer and by the time I tell people well over 100 possible customers will be lost.
There is a rule in retail: It is much easier to keep a current customer, than it is to obtain a new customer. Look at the $100 spent on free test drives to lure a new buyer...all Audi has to do is do the right thing.
Oh, the irony of this saga. Why would Audi want to settle when it was rated by both Consumer Reports and J.D. Power Associates as the number ONE European marque in quality and reliability?
New 2015 Lexus RC F. Does anyone else think that front end looks a little, hmm, "industrial"?
In my humble opinion Toyota has bastardized the Lexus line with its polarizing spindle grill design language. It has ruined an otherwise beautiful car. Come to think of it, they are trying to mimic Audi, the masters of the ostentatious grill fetish. Go figure.
Houdini pulls off a great "trick". Congrats! I would have guessed about $8500.
I am telling you guys, there is something magical about Tacomas. People really like some of those older smaller models. The guy who bought mine already owned a '98 model extended cab with 260,000 miles on it. He has had it for several years. They have a new baby and the car seat will not fit in the small back seat of the extended cab. He is an accountant and his wife is a physician, just finishing her residency.
People are asking $13/$14,000. on Autotrader for trucks similar to mine. It took me 30 minutes to answer all the emails and let them know the truck had been sold. I took the ad down immediately. It is the 4 door 4x4 v6 that everyone wants...and this was the right time of year to sell.
So season learned. Light goes on, go get gas. Thank-you ladies & gentlemen, I'll be here all night. Don't forget to tip your waitress. You've been a wonderful audience.
OK I have been away for a while so forgive the lat response to this.
My father was the champion of getting to the gas station on fumes. More times than I care to remember he would finish filling up and state that he put in more gas than the tank could supposively hold and must have just got there on fumes. I only recall him running out of gas once.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Figure at 10,000 miles a year, the guy is going to paying $1,000 a year to drive the Taco for the next decade, likely with minimal expense.
I don't think you "hosed" him at all. But I bet your seller's remorse will hang around for a while.
No, I don't think I hosed him either. If anything, I gave him a good deal. I did tell him that if he ever decided to sell it, call me first. It was a win win, both happy.
Yesterday I bit the bullet and sold my beloved 2002 Tacoma 4-door 4X4 pick-up. Just didn't need it any more and hated to see it just languish in the garage and taking up space. I had a dealer offer me $6500, Carmax about the same. Too many miles they said (157,000). I had it for 4 years and it has been a great little truck.
I had never sold anything on Craigslist but decided to give it a try. My wife wanted me to take the $6500. and not risk getting killed by some crazy on C/L. Posted an ad asking $10,500. and immediately started getting emails, etc. I began corresponding with a guy who sent me the first email. He seemed intelligent and polite. We settled on a price of $10,000.
Long story short, he and his wife showed up yesterday with a certified check for the $10,000. They were extremely nice, took about a 30 minute test drive, came back gave me the check and I signed over the title.
I bought the truck 4 years ago for $9,000 and spend another $1100. on brakes, timing chain and water pump. The young man who bought the truck was very knowledgeable about Tacoma's and would have paid the full asking price. I just gave him $500. off for being so nice and easy to deal with.
Darn it, the only problem is that I MISS MY TRUCK !!! But I do know it is in good hands.
$10k for a 12 yo truck with 157,000 miles? Holly Moley! Not to knock your truck but I wouldn't pay over a thousand for a vehicle with that kind of miles. Is it because it's a Toyota?
I couldn't even get a nibble on my Mitsu at that price even though it's 5 years newer and 110k lighter.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I paid a bit more than that for an '09 minivan with 125k on it, and a domestic at that. It's already saved me three to four thousand bucks on moving expenses.
Your Mitsu is fun and all, but can you even carry golf clubs in it?
Figure at 10,000 miles a year, the guy is going to paying $1,000 a year to drive the Taco for the next decade, likely with minimal expense.
I don't think you "hosed" him at all. But I bet your seller's remorse will hang around for a while.
No, I don't think I hosed him either. If anything, I gave him a good deal. I did tell him that if he ever decided to sell it, call me first. It was a win win, both happy.
He'll probably sell it back to you today...........for $10,900!
I paid a bit more than that for an '09 minivan with 125k on it, and a domestic at that. It's already saved me three to four thousand bucks on moving expenses.
Your Mitsu is fun and all, but can you even carry golf clubs in it?
My 86 Toyota pickup was a completely shot rusted hulk by 120k miles and I sold it to a neighbor for $200. Was nothing but trouble. I guess it soured me to the brand.
Golf clubs in the Eclipse? Sure. It's built on that big Project America platform so it's as wide as a SUV. 16.5 cu ft. trunk.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
157,000 is getting up near "scary miles" but for a Toyota it's still (obviously) a salable item. But when a vehicle rolls over 200,000, one has to wonder if it's worth anything more than parts---risky, risky.
Do engines blow up at 150K? Yes. Do transmissions give up the ghost at 150K? Yep. And you couldn't fault the truck if it did---that's close to a vehicle's statistical life.
Naturally, how a vehicle is maintained makes all the difference.
Yesterday I bit the bullet and sold my beloved 2002 Tacoma 4-door 4X4 pick-up. Just didn't need it any more and hated to see it just languish in the garage and taking up space. I had a dealer offer me $6500, Carmax about the same. Too many miles they said (157,000). I had it for 4 years and it has been a great little truck.
I had never sold anything on Craigslist but decided to give it a try. My wife wanted me to take the $6500. and not risk getting killed by some crazy on C/L. Posted an ad asking $10,500. and immediately started getting emails, etc. I began corresponding with a guy who sent me the first email. He seemed intelligent and polite. We settled on a price of $10,000.
Long story short, he and his wife showed up yesterday with a certified check for the $10,000. They were extremely nice, took about a 30 minute test drive, came back gave me the check and I signed over the title.
I bought the truck 4 years ago for $9,000 and spend another $1100. on brakes, timing chain and water pump. The young man who bought the truck was very knowledgeable about Tacoma's and would have paid the full asking price. I just gave him $500. off for being so nice and easy to deal with.
Darn it, the only problem is that I MISS MY TRUCK !!! But I do know it is in good hands.
$10k for a 12 yo truck with 157,000 miles? Holly Moley! Not to knock your truck but I wouldn't pay over a thousand for a vehicle with that kind of miles. Is it because it's a Toyota?
I couldn't even get a nibble on my Mitsu at that price even though it's 5 years newer and 110k lighter.
Nothing wrong with Mitsu trucks but compared to Toyotas they have lousy resale. Mitsu cars are even worse. Not bad cars by any means just not popular and they have a very weak dealer network. So, yes, it IS because it's a Toyota. Both parties are happy a that's all that matters.
Those of you who follow the CCBA thread know that I went to look at a 2010 CPO Challenger SRT8 yesterday, it was advertised as having the high-zoot Kicker audio system but it turns out it has the base Boston Acoustics system.I was pretty disgusted since I won't settle for a vehicle that isn't equipped the way I want it(see: the M Sport 540i that lacked the CWP or the E46 M3 w/o Xenons). Anyway, I did a bit of research and found that Mopar offers a relatively inexpensive($950) retrofit kit that lets you install the entire Kicker system. In an afternoon.So here's my plan...
The sled has been on the lot since late July; I credit the presence of three pedals and the lack of a hole in the roof- which are major pluses for me. If it is still there on Black Friday I'm making them a take it or leave it offer- and part of the deal will be that they sell me the upgrade kit at dealer cost. If they take it, fine. If not? Well, my latest oil analysis shows the Mazda's engine is in excellent shape after 146k miles- so I'll wait until something else strikes my fancy...
Those of you who follow the CCBA thread know that I went to look at a 2010 CPO Challenger SRT8 yesterday, it was advertised as having the high-zoot Kicker audio system but it turns out it has the base Boston Acoustics system.I was pretty disgusted since I won't settle for a vehicle that isn't equipped the way I want it(see: the M Sport 540i that lacked the CWP or the E46 M3 w/o Xenons). Anyway, I did a bit of research and found that Mopar offers a relatively inexpensive($950) retrofit kit that lets you install the entire Kicker system. In an afternoon.So here's my plan...
The sled has been on the lot since late July; I credit the presence of three pedals and the lack of a hole in the roof- which are major pluses for me. If it is still there on Black Friday I'm making them a take it or leave it offer- and part of the deal will be that they sell me the upgrade kit at dealer cost. If they take it, fine. If not? Well, my latest oil analysis shows the Mazda's engine is in excellent shape after 146k miles- so I'll wait until something else strikes my fancy...
Good luck! Hope you get it so we can hear all about it...and move another car this year. I think it is a bumper year for us B&S Cars people.
Rain, my foot. We've been hit with the White Death--snow. Three-4 inches through last night. Tonight it may go down into the teens. All the folks were out Sunday to buy bread, milk, eggs, and life insurance before the Great Storm hit overnight. I hate being out when they are all running around like heads with their chickens cut off.
I don't want to hear any laughing about the cold and snow from the folks south of the Maxon-Dixon Line. This cold may hit you soon (although Boca Raton is a long, long way for the cold to travel).
Rain, my foot. We've been hit with the White Death--snow. Three-4 inches through last night. Tonight it may go down into the teens. All the folks were out Sunday to buy bread, milk, eggs, and life insurance before the Great Storm hit overnight. I hate being out when they are all running around like heads with their chickens cut off.
I don't want to hear any laughing about the cold and snow from the folks south of the Maxon-Dixon Line. This cold may hit you soon (although Boca Raton is a long, long way for the cold to travel).
What about the folks south of the MASON-DIXON LINE?
It's 86 degrees out and partly cloudy right now. But over the rest of this week, temps are supposed to dip into the low 60's at night and low 70's during the day. A downright cold spell!
What about the folks south of the MASON-DIXON LINE?
It's 86 degrees out and partly cloudy right now. But over the rest of this week, temps are supposed to dip into the low 60's at night and low 70's during the day. A downright cold spell!
I hope you're not wanting sympathy. I keep telling myself that people in Florida have hurricanes and sink holes to deal with.
And there are the little old ladies driving who shouldn't be out driving in the snow. They act like they are so afraid to move their big SUV over 25 mph. They sit at the stop sign and watch you approach and come to complete stop before they will move. They are afraid you might slide through the intersection and into them I guess.
So I end up waiting while they slowly creep across the four-way stop. Why can't they go when they see someone is slowing down to stop on the cross street. They could have been across while I was still slowing down and stopping. Sheeeesh. Do people do that in Florida?
Comments
In this case, all the evidence points to the car. My wife and daughter used the bmw the same way, and that car went 40K miles without a clutch proble, My wife had a 92 Saab 9-3, MG, Volvos, all standards, and our daughter drove them as well......never a problem.
She is not racing, starting fast, double clutching on curves or anything out of the ordinary. I agree there is maybe a 5% chance one of them did it somehow, but, I say since the only variable is the car....it is an Audi defect. And, I am very surprised that they consider you are guilty as soon as the car comes in....it can't be a manufacturing defect! And yet, there are lots of cases where clutches have failed, one poor guy at under 2000 miles.
I think they should pay for it all, but, i think I am being more than reasonable in offering to pay 50%, for what 99% of the people would say, is a manufacturing problem.
What if you bought a new car and the automatic transmission burned up. And, the manufacturer said it can't be us, it must have been the way you drove the car. How can you defend yourself?
In my case, I think the clutch plate didn't go back properly...probably a broken spring or however they work. I am sure they have replaced the part on my old parts. Now, all I really have left is common sense.....unless you still want to play devil's advocate
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think in your case your MB dealer has a lot more clout than my little Audi dealer. I really do think they tried. They sounded like they were on my side, I think they got Audi to pay for the 50% off parts, and they took a hit on the 10% labor charge. But, Audi H.O. has left them out to dry, which is a shame because I liked that dealership, but, they could lose a good customer.
If I really believed there was a chance we are responsible for the clutch meltdown I would just pay it. I think the possibility is so small, that Ican't just pay up.
Your MB dealer has probably gone out of their way to keep you happy. They have a personal relationship with you, and they want to keep you. I get the impression MB is really trying to build relationships and a loyal following....I have been treated like a king at my MB dealership.
I won't know until I really need them, but, so far they have been helpful in every way. Even offered to come to the house to install the manual. Free car wash 6 days a week from 9 to 5. That's how to really win and keep customers. My wife and I are thinking C Class for her, though I kind of like to have two different brands.....not too many eggs in one basket.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Driver, I would not even pay 50% of the cost of the clutch replacement. I am more of a stickler for demanding what is fair and expected from a car and its manufacturer. It's like your brakes wearing out in 10,000 miles - something that is unheard of in today's vehicles - even in constant use in an inner-city with stop and go driving.
The clutch was bad or installed at manufacture improperly or adjusted incorrectly. It was definitely not worn out or burned up by your wife - not in 10,000 miles and in just one year of ownership.
If I was told by my service department that I burned out my clutch, I would have taken it to a second Audi dealership's service department and asked them to tell you how you could have burned out a clutch in just 10,000 miles before the clutch was tampered with by the other service department.
Something is rotten in Denmark, Driver, and it certainly isn't Hamlet!
2021 Genesis G90
This was a few years ago when phones weren't efficient, I said my phone won't last on roaming for more than 20 minutes. He said then let's split the bill. I said no, it's all or nothing or I go to the government. I said I would pay for 15 minutes, though the call was for about 4 minutes. He said he'd make it zero, but, if it happened again I'd be charged. I switched companies and they pleaded with me to come back.
It is very difficult to go to court or even the free mediation service. I'll do it if I have to. If they don't give me half, that is what I will do....just as a matter of principle, and if I do that I would go for the full amount.
However, if they settle for half I'll save myself the aggravation. I think I would have won the moral victory and that's more important for now.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I went on numerous demo drives with people who had no business buying a car with a manual transmission. They would sllllllip the clutch taking off and they would shift too soon and slip the heck out of the clutch between gears. I would sit there and cringe.
That said, since the drivers of this Audi were experienced with manuals and had not had problems like this in the past I doubt if this is what has happened in this case.
40,000 miles? I would blame it on the driver but not 10,000.
Audi should eat this 100%.
The store where I worked got to the point where they would NOT resell certain makes of cars that were taken as trades. Audis are on that list along with Land Rovers, most Volvos and most Volkswagens. Still, I can't remember a clutch problem with Audis. Mostly electrical niggling (EXPENSIVE TO FIX) and engine problems on higher mileage ones.
BMWS and Mercedes were CAREFULLY inspected and if they were exceptional they usually were just fine.
We just didn't want the headaches and unhappy customers.
I am almost hoping they don't accept my offer to pay half and they pay half. Arbitration is held in a hotel or similar fascility as close to home as possible. You can have a lawyer but not necessary. Apparently Audi won't be represented by a lawyer. It sounds like there is no cost, and you just discuss the problem, and the monitor rules.
Might be an interesting experience. I wonder if Audi lets it go that far.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You might also review the rules--is the arbitration binding or can you refuse the judgment and go from there?
Your right, the arbitrator does not have to be an expert but can call on experts for advice.
Yes, the ruling is binding. To quote, "The arbitrator’s written decision is called an Award. Once the arbitrator gives an Award, the case is over. Neither you nor the manufacturer can appeal the decision and both of you must do what is necessary to carry out the arbitrator’s decision"
Your dispute must either be about manufacturing defects or where you feel the manufacturer is not honouring the new vehicle warranty.
An arbitrator can order that the manufacturer do one or more of the following:
Repair your vehicle at its expense;
Buy your vehicle back at a price set by a formula (with or without a reduction for use);
Reimburse you for previous repairs;
Reimburse you up to $500 for diagnostic testing of your vehicle done prior to the date of your hearing;
Reimburse you for certain out-of-pocket expenses up to $500;
Reimburse you up to $100 of your total costs to summons witnesses.
You can't use CAMVAP and go to court. It's one or the other. You don't get paid for emotional stress etc. But, this seems to suit my purposes. We aren't back until April, so hopefully there isn't some time limit. I suppose I could fly back and claim $500 out of pocket expenses. I'll have to see what the filing limits are.
I'd like to read what goes on in some of these cases. It would be interesting to know some statistics...like which manufacturers are called up most often. What problems have people had?
Audi will have to send a representative, that could cost more than the $500 I am trying to get off of them!!!!!! Also, they will be gambling, I may get my $500 I would settle for, or I may get the full $2350 covered. Kind of like a poker game, or chicken!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
http://camvap.blogspot.com/2007/06/how-i-won-at-camvap.html
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
http://camvap.blogspot.ca/
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As for advice, all I can say about that is to avoid hysterics at any cost
I was thinking, in the Toyota case, in GGs case and in my case, the car companies would be way further ahead if they just helped fix the problem. They actually lost by being stubborn and not taking a sensible approach, and admitting they were at fault.
GGs case highlights this perfectly. They should have taken back his lemon immediately, it didn't take much to see the car was never going to get fixed. Given him another one and he may be driving it happily today....and if it is as good as they think it is he may buy another one, and tell his friends how much he likes it.
The Toyota guy's problem could have been solved if they fixed the car in the first place, but, they had to go through the whole process and still lost.
In my case they may win, but, something will have to go seriously wrong for them to win this one. I'll have to have a really bad day, or mess up the paperwork. And, what have they done, just alienated a customer and by the time I tell people well over 100 possible customers will be lost.
There is a rule in retail: It is much easier to keep a current customer, than it is to obtain a new customer. Look at the $100 spent on free test drives to lure a new buyer...all Audi has to do is do the right thing.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I'll be just like Perry Mason or the Lincoln Lawyer, no shouting about what kind of fool do they take me for. Selling me a junky cars that falls apart after 10k miles! Don't worry...although that would be fun!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I had never sold anything on Craigslist but decided to give it a try. My wife wanted me to take the $6500. and not risk getting killed by some crazy on C/L. Posted an ad asking $10,500. and immediately started getting emails, etc. I began corresponding with a guy who sent me the first email. He seemed intelligent and polite. We settled on a price of $10,000.
Long story short, he and his wife showed up yesterday with a certified check for the $10,000. They were extremely nice, took about a 30 minute test drive, came back gave me the check and I signed over the title.
I bought the truck 4 years ago for $9,000 and spend another $1100. on brakes, timing chain and water pump. The young man who bought the truck was very knowledgeable about Tacoma's and would have paid the full asking price. I just gave him $500. off for being so nice and easy to deal with.
Darn it, the only problem is that I MISS MY TRUCK !!! But I do know it is in good hands.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
On 2nd thought, there is an exception, that being for luxury cars which depreciate like crazy. But then who in their right mind would want to own a used Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc, once it is out of warranty? (ducking for cover and donning flame retardant suit... )
Someone is paying $10K for a 2002 with about 3/4s of the life gone and with no warranty. Tires, battery etc that will all need replacing. I am betting it will be cheaper to buy a new Tacoma and drive it for 10 years, pay it off, and get 5 or 6 bonus years of no payment driving....save up for your next one.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Used Toyota trucks do bring crazy money and there are people who aren't afraid of high miles on a well maintained car. It could easily do another 100K.
I think the right buyer fell in your lap!
con2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Oh, the irony of this saga. Why would Audi want to settle when it was rated by both Consumer Reports and J.D. Power Associates as the number ONE European marque in quality and reliability?
I wonder what a bank would have loaned on that miled up truck?
People are asking $13/$14,000. on Autotrader for trucks similar to mine. It took me 30 minutes to answer all the emails and let them know the truck had been sold. I took the ad down immediately. It is the 4 door 4x4 v6 that everyone wants...and this was the right time of year to sell.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
My father was the champion of getting to the gas station on fumes. More times than I care to remember he would finish filling up and state that he put in more gas than the tank could supposively hold and must have just got there on fumes. I only recall him running out of gas once.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't think you "hosed" him at all. But I bet your seller's remorse will hang around for a while.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I couldn't even get a nibble on my Mitsu at that price even though it's 5 years newer and 110k lighter.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Your Mitsu is fun and all, but can you even carry golf clubs in it?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Golf clubs in the Eclipse? Sure. It's built on that big Project America platform so it's as wide as a SUV. 16.5 cu ft. trunk.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Do engines blow up at 150K? Yes. Do transmissions give up the ghost at 150K? Yep. And you couldn't fault the truck if it did---that's close to a vehicle's statistical life.
Naturally, how a vehicle is maintained makes all the difference.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
The sled has been on the lot since late July; I credit the presence of three pedals and the lack of a hole in the roof- which are major pluses for me. If it is still there on Black Friday I'm making them a take it or leave it offer- and part of the deal will be that they sell me the upgrade kit at dealer cost. If they take it, fine. If not? Well, my latest oil analysis shows the Mazda's engine is in excellent shape after 146k miles- so I'll wait until something else strikes my fancy...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-2021 Sahara 4xe-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2015 X1 xDrive28i
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2021 Genesis G90
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't want to hear any laughing about the cold and snow from the folks south of the Maxon-Dixon Line. This cold may hit you soon (although Boca Raton is a long, long way for the cold to travel).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's 86 degrees out and partly cloudy right now. But over the rest of this week, temps are supposed to dip into the low 60's at night and low 70's during the day. A downright cold spell!
2021 Genesis G90
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
"The frozen tundra of the northern wastelands"
And there are the little old ladies driving who shouldn't be out driving in the snow. They act like they are so afraid to move their big SUV over 25 mph. They sit at the stop sign and watch you approach and come to complete stop before they will move. They are afraid you might slide through the intersection and into them I guess.
So I end up waiting while they slowly creep across the four-way stop. Why can't they go when they see someone is slowing down to stop on the cross street. They could have been across while I was still slowing down and stopping. Sheeeesh.
Do people do that in Florida?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do they? Of course they do - this is the octinagerian capital of the world!!! They all are zombies - the driving dead!
2021 Genesis G90