Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

mako1a said:

Driver, I'd take them to Judge Judy. I think I heard her say something about living in Ft Meyers, FL.

It's my assessment that she's much harder on men in her court than on the women. She seems to have an inherent dislike for men and appears to take a dislike to certain ones because of an intuition she feels that she has. She's probably blame drive100 for the problem because someone else was driving the car and he couldn't possible know if they were abusing the clutch or not. I'm saying that's an example of the radical position she might latch onto; it's not what I would think based on Driver's description of his daughter's abilities...

imidazol97

Everybody wants to go to Canada.
Happy Thanksgiving.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

@oldfarmer50‌

I wish I could say I was thankful that you had finally bought a Mustang after all the hard work and effort you have put into this process, but alas, I cannot.

OF, for the sake of all of us, buy a Mustang already so we can read your commentary as an owner rather than a "drooler"!  We'd all be thankful to know you are a happy new Mustang owner.

Go ahead, OF, make my day!

Nag, nag, nag.

Happy Thanksgiving.

oldfarmer50

houdini1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I'm invited to the relatives house tomorrow so no work involved....sweet

We were talking about pre delivery damage a while back and I noticed that the new 2015 Mustang in front of my apathetic dealer now has the back panel broken in half. Wonder how that happened?

That's the car before the damage.

farmer, have you ever considered a Miata?

I joked about it but Shifty slapped me back to reality by reminding me that a 6'2" individual was not made for that car.

Mr_Shiftright

Just to verify my own bias in this regard I actually went and sat in a 2007 Miata and a 2010 (local dealer's lot) and no, I cannot possibly drive that car without jamming my left knee into the steering wheel every time I shift.

There was a time, long, long ago, in a far off place peppered with tawny brown sunlit uplands, when you could get a freakin' steering wheel that both tilted AND telescoped!

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

Nag, nag, nag.

The Mustang hardly deserves to be called a nag.

driver100

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Nag, nag, nag.

The Mustang hardly deserves to be called a nag.

Mustangs are horses aren't they?

driver100

bwia said:

Hey Driver,  perhaps you should threaten them of taking your case to the court of public opinion--a la 60 minutes. 

Seriously though,  there are many consumer oriented TV shows that would be more than happy to do an expose'. But you should be prepared for the publicity and the aggressive push back from Audi. 

Thanks bwia....maybe I should threaten Audi that I will be going on 60 Minutes. Just the threat may be enough.

Mako said: take them to Judge Judy.

Or Lowell the Hammer.

Since I could be going to an arbitration hearing I would rely on any expert opinions. It seems nothing I find says you can wear out a clutch in 10k miles, you would have to be totally incompetent. Let me know of any experts if you think they would give me an opinion. I have one from my local newspaper back home....he said a clutch should last 150k miles.

Imid about Judge Judy It's my assessment that she's much harder on men in her court than on the women.

My wife is a very honest likeable person. I'll let her present the case. When we went to try to get large customers with our business I always went with my wife. Buyers trust me because I just tell the truth, but they really trust her........she won't even tell a white lie.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that saying a clutch will last 150,000 miles has no more basis in fact than saying that many clutches fail at 10,000 miles. Both claims can be easily dismissed.

You could say that a clutch failure at 10,000 miles, in a household of mature and experienced manual shift drivers is best explained by a defect, not by driver error. In other words, ask the arbitrator "which scenario is the most likely, that mature adults burn out a clutch in 10,000 miles by abusive driving or that a defective clutch failed on a practically brand new car driven responsibly?"

If Audi is denying warranty, it is then up to Audi to PROVE the basis for denying warranty. Near as I can tell, the basis for denial is founded on wording, not evidence. Audi declares a clutch a "wearable item". Is it reasonable to say that "no item deemed a wearable item by Audi is therefore, in capable of being defective?"

A windshield wiper blade is a "wearable item". If I buy a new one and the rubber splits on it in 3 weeks, is that defective or not?

Anyway, you get the idea. That's how I'd approach it if I were in your shoes.

1. argument to reason
2. argument to evidence

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Hey Driver,  perhaps you should threaten them of taking your case to the court of public opinion--a la 60 minutes. 

Seriously though,  there are many consumer oriented TV shows that would be more than happy to do an expose'. But you should be prepared for the publicity and the aggressive push back from Audi. 

Thanks bwia....maybe I should threaten Audi that I will be going on 60 Minutes. Just the threat may be enough.

Mako said: take them to Judge Judy.

Or Lowell the Hammer.

Since I could be going to an arbitration hearing I would rely on any expert opinions. It seems nothing I find says you can wear out a clutch in 10k miles, you would have to be totally incompetent. Let me know of any experts if you think they would give me an opinion. I have one from my local newspaper back home....he said a clutch should last 150k miles.

Imid about Judge Judy It's my assessment that she's much harder on men in her court than on the women.

My wife is a very honest likeable person. I'll let her present the case. When we went to try to get large customers with our business I always went with my wife. Buyers trust me because I just tell the truth, but they really trust her........she won't even tell a white lie.

abacomike

@driver100‌

Driver, if you go to arbitration, I would certainly think you would want to bring a mechanic with you who spends a large percentage of his professional work time repairing/replacing clutches on German as well as American made vehicles. Secondly, that mechanic should inspect the parts of the clutch that were replaced.

I would think you would want the expert to testify as to the reasons a clutch on an Audi A4 should wear out/burn out after only 10,000 miles by owners/drivers who have driven manual transmissions their entire lives and who are mature adults (in your case, very old mature adults ) who own three cars (all German you should add) and who have never had a problem with a clutch in their entire lives.

That should solve the problem of whether this is a defective clutch or and abusive driver(s).

imidazol97

driver100 said:

My wife is a very honest likeable person. I'll let her present the case. When we went to try to get large customers with our business I always went with my wife. Buyers trust me because I just tell the truth, but they really trust her........she won't even tell a white lie.

Perfect.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think that saying a clutch will last 150,000 miles has no more basis in fact than saying that many clutches fail at 10,000 miles. Both claims can be easily dismissed.

You could say that a clutch failure at 10,000 miles, in a household of mature and experienced manual shift drivers is best explained by a defect, not by driver error. In other words, ask the arbitrator "which scenario is the most likely, that mature adults burn out a clutch in 10,000 miles by abusive driving or that a defective clutch failed on a practically brand new car driven responsibly?"

If Audi is denying warranty, it is then up to Audi to PROVE the basis for denying warranty. Near as I can tell, the basis for denial is founded on wording, not evidence. Audi declares a clutch a "wearable item". Is it reasonable to say that "no item deemed a wearable item by Audi is therefore, in capable of being defective?"

A windshield wiper blade is a "wearable item". If I buy a new one and the rubber splits on it in 3 weeks, is that defective or not?

Anyway, you get the idea. That's how I'd approach it if I were in your shoes.

1. argument to reason
2. argument to evidence

driver100 said:

bwia said:

Hey Driver,  perhaps you should threaten them of taking your case to the court of public opinion--a la 60 minutes. 

Seriously though,  there are many consumer oriented TV shows that would be more than happy to do an expose'. But you should be prepared for the publicity and the aggressive push back from Audi. 

Thanks bwia....maybe I should threaten Audi that I will be going on 60 Minutes. Just the threat may be enough.

Mako said: take them to Judge Judy.

Or Lowell the Hammer.

Since I could be going to an arbitration hearing I would rely on any expert opinions. It seems nothing I find says you can wear out a clutch in 10k miles, you would have to be totally incompetent. Let me know of any experts if you think they would give me an opinion. I have one from my local newspaper back home....he said a clutch should last 150k miles.

Imid about Judge Judy It's my assessment that she's much harder on men in her court than on the women.

My wife is a very honest likeable person. I'll let her present the case. When we went to try to get large customers with our business I always went with my wife. Buyers trust me because I just tell the truth, but they really trust her........she won't even tell a white lie.







Who other than Mr Shiftright should know about clutches. Your arguement is very well taken...I have copied it into my notes word for word. When you see it spelled out that way, it is very difficult to argue the Audi side. I love that arguement.

I will also email a copy of it to my Gmail so if my laptop gets stolen I can still get at it.

btw....do you take on criminal cases....just wanted to know in case, you never know?

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

Driver, if you go to arbitration, I would certainly think you would want to bring a mechanic with you who spends a large percentage of his professional work time repairing/replacing clutches on German as well as American made vehicles. Secondly, that mechanic should inspect the parts of the clutch that were replaced.

I would think you would want the expert to testify as to the reasons a clutch on an Audi A4 should wear out/burn out after only 10,000 miles by owners/drivers who have driven manual transmissions their entire lives and who are mature adults (in your case, very old mature adults ) who own three cars (all German you should add) and who have never had a problem with a clutch in their entire lives.

That should solve the problem of whether this is a defective clutch or and abusive driver(s).

I may need an opinion here. I am not very mechanically astute, but, it would seem to me if there was a failure in the clutch, it could be something that was fixed when it was removed.....like a spring or something that needed an adjustment. It could even have been greased and oiled since it was removed. On the other hand, something could be still broken, but, I doubt they would have left it like that. Any thoughts?

Expert testimony would help, but I would have to pay a mechanic for his time, which could be more than the award. The arbitration people allow you $100 toward an expert. For that price I would like to get a few mechanics who would examine the parts and write down their opinions.

I think the fact as stated " Audi A4 should wear out/burn out after only 10,000 miles by owners/drivers who have driven manual transmissions their entire lives and who are mature adults (in your case, very old mature adults ) who own three cars (all German you should add) and who have never had a problem with a clutch in their entire lives" is important and I am going to add that to my notes.

Much appreciated...hows that turkey coming along?.

We are going to the tennis club with friends for a fantastic Thanksgiving buffet...$18 p.p.

abacomike

@driver100‌

I I will put it in the oven at 325 degrees for 1-1/2 to 2 hours.  When the little popper pops, it's done.  I let it sit for 1/2 hour while I heat up the stuffing, string beans and gravy.

I'll it it up at 4:00 PM - we'll eat at 6:00 PM.

It warmed up nicely today - 73 degrees now, no clouds and no humidity.  This weekend, up near 80 degrees.

imidazol97

@abaco It warmed up nicely today - 73 degrees now, no clouds and no humidity. This weekend, up near 80 degrees.'

Stop.

stever

67 and sunny here. Had to buy a humidifier yesterday; the little butcher block we drug out here from Michigan is cracking like the OEM sidewalls on a '49 Ford. Got a chicken in the oven and made cornbread dressing (with an ounce or two of chorizo in it) but decided to grill a rainbow trout for lunch. May just eat the bird tomorrow.

@driver100, re" but I would have to pay a mechanic for his time, which could be more than the award". Welcome to the real world where justice is readily obtainable if you can afford it.

It would be great if a mechanic could examine the parts in your trunk and say that they are defective and not simply worn (bushings?). My guess is that Audi will say that clutches are wear items and people can burn them out if they don't know how to use a manual transmission, and that's why the warranty period is relatively short. That's when you jump up and say the warranty only expired on time. Then you'll be asked who drives the car. You, your wife, your daughter....er, maybe the kid grandson.

Does the current offer to forgive some of the cost go away if you decide to go to arbitration?

driver100

stever said:

@driver100, re" but I would have to pay a mechanic for his time, which could be more than the award". Welcome to the real world where justice is readily obtainable if you can afford it.

It would be great if a mechanic could examine the parts in your trunk and say that they are defective and not simply worn (bushings?). My guess is that Audi will say that clutches are wear items and people can burn them out if they don't know how to use a manual transmission, and that's why the warranty period is relatively short. That's when you jump up and say the warranty only expired on time. Then you'll be asked who drives the car. You, your wife, your daughter....er, maybe the kid grandson.

Does the current offer to forgive some of the cost go away if you decide to go to arbitration?

As far as I know I really doubt if our grandson would have driven it....it is technically possible since our daughter is using it. But, he has no interest in driving a manual car and it wouldn't make sense for him to attampt it. It is technically possible, but probability is extremely unlikely.
I think we have to go with what makes sense. A car jockey or mechanic at Audi could have done something to it too.

As to the last question, the original bill was $2350. The dealer discounted parts 50%, labor 10%, and my bill is $1650. I told the dealer if they wanted to charge me the full amount go ahead because I will be taking it to arbitration. The service manager said no, your price is $1650. Service Manager was really trying for us, and I think by doing that he is almost saying we think it is the car....but, our hands are tied, that is all we can do for you. Now you have to deal with Audi Canada. I have paid as much as I would have to pay........the arbitrators could only make it lower or stay the same.

abacomike

Next year, God willing, we are going out for Thanksgiving Dinner.  Even though all I had to do was heat the turkey in the oven for 90 minutes, I still had to carve the bird, heat up gravy, stuffing, potatoes, etc., but I also had to clean up, put everything in containers or Saran Wrap, and tolerate my Dad driving me nuts about when I should do things, how I should do things, and what I should do.  Not much fun!

So next year, no matter what, we eat out - unless I meet someone who cooks Thanksgiving Dinners in her own home! That would be ideal.

roadburner

abacomike said:

Next year, God willing, we are going out for Thanksgiving Dinner.  Even though all I had to do was heat the turkey in the oven for 90 minutes, I still had to carve the bird, heat up gravy, stuffing, potatoes, etc., but I also had to clean up, put everything in containers or Saran Wrap, and tolerate my Dad driving me nuts about when I should do things, how I should do things, and what I should do.  Not much fun!

So next year, no matter what, we eat out - unless I meet someone who cooks Thanksgiving Dinners in her own home! That would be ideal.

We get a smoked turkey from a local restaurant. It's delicious and we can pick it up on Thanksgiving before noon.

graphicguy

Shifty..like you, the couple of people I know who have Volts, love them. Both came from Priuses (Prii?), too.

Mr_Shiftright

“After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relations.”


― Oscar Wilde

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

Next year, God willing, we are going out for Thanksgiving Dinner.  Even though all I had to do was heat the turkey in the oven for 90 minutes, I still had to carve the bird, heat up gravy, stuffing, potatoes, etc., but I also had to clean up, put everything in containers or Saran Wrap, and tolerate my Dad driving me nuts about when I should do things, how I should do things, and what I should do.  Not much fun!

So next year, no matter what, we eat out - unless I meet someone who cooks Thanksgiving Dinners in her own home! That would be ideal.

We get a smoked turkey from a local restaurant. It's delicious and we can pick it up on Thanksgiving before noon.

Mr_Shiftright

What I'd really like is a Tesla body with Tesla horsepower but with the Volt EV/ICE technology and the Prius's window sticker.

graphicguy said:

Shifty..like you, the couple of people I know who have Volts, love them. Both came from Priuses (Prii?), too.

driver100

abacomike said:

Next year, God willing, we are going out for Thanksgiving Dinner.  Even though all I had to do was heat the turkey in the oven for 90 minutes, I still had to carve the bird, heat up gravy, stuffing, potatoes, etc., but I also had to clean up, put everything in containers or Saran Wrap, and tolerate my Dad driving me nuts about when I should do things, how I should do things, and what I should do.  Not much fun!

So next year, no matter what, we eat out - unless I meet someone who cooks Thanksgiving Dinners in her own home! That would be ideal.

That's the way I see it too. Our tennis club had a beautiful buffet with real turkey and all the fixings for $18 each. Bob Evans had a full turkey dinner with stuffing and including dessert for $10.99. Unless your a gluten for punishment why put yourself through all that torture.

Too many Thanksgiving dinners would go something like this, including mine, if my SIL was there.


Mike, this sounds like it might describe yours:

abacomike

@driver100‌

Yes, it's no treat preparing a Thanksgiving Dinner, even if most of the elements are pre-cooked.  You still have lots of preparation.

Next year, if my Dad is still around and able, I am going to Denny's if necessary, but I am not cooking.  I am going to mark my calendar for September and try to make reservations at the Ritz Carlton in Ft. Lauderdale or West Palm Beach.  Even at $75.00 a person, it's better than cooking.

I tried this year to get a seating at the Ritz buffet, but they were sold out.  They said I have to make reservations 2 months In advance - so that's what I am going to do.  If not there, then it's at any restaurant that serves turkey and the trimmings.

At least I won't be nagged all day long about how to cook or when to cook!

stickguy

Driver, thinking about your situation, you can actually use the fact that the dealer discounted your price against Audi in the arbitration hearing. Because effectively they admitted that it should not have happened.

jayrider

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

Yes, it's no treat preparing a Thanksgiving Dinner, even if most of the elements are pre-cooked.  You still have lots of preparation.

Next year, if my Dad is still around and able, I am going to Denny's if necessary, but I am not cooking.  I am going to mark my calendar for September and try to make reservations at the Ritz Carlton in Ft. Lauderdale or West Palm Beach.  Even at $75.00 a person, it's better than cooking.

I tried this year to get a seating at the Ritz buffet, but they were sold out.  They said I have to make reservations 2 months In advance - so that's what I am going to do.  If not there, then it's at any restaurant that serves turkey and the trimmings.

At least I won't be nagged all day long about how to cook or when to cook!

How about the Casino ?

abacomike

@jayrider‌

I tried there, but they didn't have anything special for Thanksgiving.  I would think with all the retired folks down here they would do some great business at one of their restaurants.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

Yes, it's no treat preparing a Thanksgiving Dinner, even if most of the elements are pre-cooked.  You still have lots of preparation.

I have to say this, I love cooking a full thanksgiving dinner. Sure it's lot of work but I find it enjoyable and rewarding.

Mr_Shiftright

maybe you should cook for his dad next year

driver100

stickguy said:

Driver, thinking about your situation, you can actually use the fact that the dealer discounted your price against Audi in the arbitration hearing. Because effectively they admitted that it should not have happened.

Sounds like a good idea. It does make sense, why would the dealer have discounted the price - and insist that I take their discount even though I gave them a chance to get out of it - if they thought we were at fault. They probably believed us and they know we are reasonable people, and they fixed it without making a profit on the repairs.

The dealer didn't reply to 2 emails I sent to the sales manager and general manager. I don't think they want to be called in to a hearing or small claims court, they did everything they could do. Very similar to Mike in that respect, the dealer is really trying to please, but corporate does not like to give in.

The dealer did the right thing, but, may have implicated the manufacturer I guess...but, that's a good point to record for future use.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

maybe you should cook for his dad next year

Or all of us.....Thankgiving is at snakes next year everyone!

driver100

jayrider said:

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

Yes, it's no treat preparing a Thanksgiving Dinner, even if most of the elements are pre-cooked.  You still have lots of preparation.

Next year, if my Dad is still around and able, I am going to Denny's if necessary, but I am not cooking.  I am going to mark my calendar for September and try to make reservations at the Ritz Carlton in Ft. Lauderdale or West Palm Beach.  Even at $75.00 a person, it's better than cooking.

I tried this year to get a seating at the Ritz buffet, but they were sold out.  They said I have to make reservations 2 months In advance - so that's what I am going to do.  If not there, then it's at any restaurant that serves turkey and the trimmings.

At least I won't be nagged all day long about how to cook or when to cook!

How about the Casino ?

Surprised many restaurants are closed on Thanksgiving....which I guess is good for employees and owners. But restaurants that are open are packed, especially if they have a Thanksgiving dinner special.

Friends wanted us to go to this fancy place in Florida that has a huge buffet....$75 a person. I know the food is fantastic, the view of Tampa Bay will be magnificent.....but, there's no way I could come close to eating $75 worth of food, we declined. The tennis club was $18 p.p., excellent, more than enough food, and I still ate more than I should - ended up having a much better time.

oldfarmer50

Sometimes snow can be nice.

thebean

I have a question about how you handle test drives.  Do you contact the Internet manager to arrange for a test drive and bypass the salesmen?  I am going to do the "e-mail dealerships for their best price" method, so I don't want to have a salesman have my info as a prospect.  But I want to take test drives to be sure about my choice.  I didn't know if the Internet manager could let you do a test drive.  Thanks for your experiences here.  

abacomike

thebean said:

I have a question about how you handle test drives.  Do you contact the Internet manager to arrange for a test drive and bypass the salesmen?  I am going to do the "e-mail dealerships for their best price" method, so I don't want to have a salesman have my info as a prospect.  But I want to take test drives to be sure about my choice.  I didn't know if the Internet manager could let you do a test drive.  Thanks for your experiences here.  

If you take a test drive, you will be required to submit your license so they can make a copy.  So, they will get your name, address, zip, etc.  there is no way around that.

Go to a salesman because that's what the Internet manager is going to do anyway - turn you over to a sales professional to drive with you.  So, you might as well pick the salesman rather than have one assigned.

thebean

abacomike said:

thebean said:

I have a question about how you handle test drives.  Do you contact the Internet manager to arrange for a test drive and bypass the salesmen?  I am going to do the "e-mail dealerships for their best price" method, so I don't want to have a salesman have my info as a prospect.  But I want to take test drives to be sure about my choice.  I didn't know if the Internet manager could let you do a test drive.  Thanks for your experiences here.  

If you take a test drive, you will be required to submit your license so they can make a copy.  So, they will get your name, address, zip, etc.  there is no way around that.

Go to a salesman because that's what the Internet manager is going to do anyway - turn you over to a sales professional to drive with you.  So, you might as well pick the salesman rather than have one assigned.

Thanks for the quick reply.  So, how do you do the deal with the Internet manager, which I assume does not include a normal commission to the salesman?  If the salesman does the test drive with you, he/she is going to want to get a commission.  Sorry for being obtuse, but I can't envision how it works with the Internet manager and a normal salesman.  

abacomike

@thebean‌

Bean, the Internet manager is very often just a salesman assigned to the Internet department.  In my dealership, everyone was a manager in the Internet department.  The manager of that department just distributed Internet inquiries to the other personnel in his department.

Every sale of a car in a dealership is assigned to a salesman.  In the case of "house deals" (usually s car sold at or very near cost) they are still assigned to salesmen, but the commission is a "mini" which means the minimum commission as listed in that dealership's policy manual.  It's about $100 in a typical low to mid-priced dealership like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, etc., but varies to as much as $200-$250.  In an upscale dealership like Mercedes, it ranges from $200-$250.

So, someone is still going to make a commission, no matter what.  Remember, someone has to get all the paperwork done and someone still must deliver the car.

thebean

abacomike said:

@thebean‌

Bean, the Internet manager is very often just a salesman assigned to the Internet department.  In my dealership, everyone was a manager in the Internet department.  The manager of that department just distributed Internet inquiries to the other personnel in his department.

Every sale of a car in a dealership is assigned to a salesman.  In the case of "house deals" (usually s car sold at or very near cost) they are still assigned to salesmen, but the commission is a "mini" which means the minimum commission as listed in that dealership's policy manual.  It's about $100 in a typical low to mid-priced dealership like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, etc., but varies to as much as $200-$250.  In an upscale dealership like Mercedes, it ranges from $200-$250.

So, someone is still going to make a commission, no matter what.  Remember, someone has to get all the paperwork done and someone still must deliver the car.

Got it.  That clears things up very well.  Thank you for the info and for your patience in explaining it.  I really appreciate it!  Now for the test drives and decision making

abacomike

@thebean‌

You are most welcome, bean. That's what we do here (besides talk about everything else in the world) - help people like yourself get the best deals possible when searching for a new car.

I just want to clear one more thing up for you. Not all dealerships operate the same way when it comes to internet sales.

The Mercedes Dealership where I buy my cars has one salesman who does nothing but respond to internet inquiries, even on instant messaging. But once he has a prospect, he turns it over to salesmen on the floor who have been identified as internet sales personnel by the sales managers and are eligible to handle customers who come into the dealership as internet customers.

Some dealerships have a totally different approach. Some have an internet manager with internet sales people in that office. They price their own deals and never deal with the sales manager on the floor. It all depends how the General Manager of the dealership want things run.

Good luck on your search for a new car. Today is one of the busiest days of the year for car sales. All personnel are working today and tomorrow. So, next to Christmas Eve Day and New Years Eve Day, this is the busiest day of the year.

imidazol97

When shopping and buying my Chevrolet Malibu, I noticed that one younger salesman was the internet sales guy. He was always on the computer doing what looked like emails. He seemed to be a different "spirit" than the other, more typical salespeople populating the showroom. I never saw him outside looking for an "up."

I did see him with what I would stereotype as a businesswoman in her 30s and he was getting her a diesel Cruze to test as soon as she entered the showroom. That's when I was certain he was their internet contact: she came in with a briefcase ready to lay it out as soon as she hit his desk. I guessed she was just test driving to be sure the car was okay.

nyccarguy

@thebean‌

Don't worry about who gets commission, how much, if it gets split between the internet guy & the sales dude. Just focus on getting the right car at a great price.

abacomike

nyccarguy said:

@thebean‌

Don't worry about who gets commission, how much, if it gets split between the internet guy & the sales dude. Just focus on getting the right car at a great price.

I think "thebean" was wondering if he did business with the internet manager would he save even more money since the "internet manager" does not get paid a commission. I was just informing him that every sale in a dealership, no matter where it is generated from (the floor, ads, internet, friends of the owner, etc.) is assigned to a salesman. The reason for this is to get all the preparatory paperwork completed (copies of insurance, driver's licences, umpteen different forms signed, buyers order, etc.) prior to the deal going into the finance department. Once the finance department is finished, the car has to be delivered and someone has to go over the car with the buyer to teach the buyer all the options, how to use specific features, etc.

That is why every sale goes through a salesman. But the commissions are minimum deals commissions - very small - just a way of compensating a salesman for his time and expertise.

robr2

Nothing like spending a family holiday lying in bed. Got up at 8 AM to get to the HS football game. Left at halftime. Got home and laid down for a while. Got up at 1:30 to welcome guests and eat. Went back to bed at 3:30 and got up at 8:30. Went back to back at midnight and slept until 7:30.

I feel much better today. My head cold from 2 weeks ago that never really ran it's course decided to become a chest cold earlier this week.

abacomike

robr2 said:

Nothing like spending a family holiday lying in bed. Got up at 8 AM to get to the HS football game. Left at halftime. Got home and laid down for a while. Got up at 1:30 to welcome guests and eat. Went back to bed at 3:30 and got up at 8:30. Went back to back at midnight and slept until 7:30. I feel much better today. My head cold from 2 weeks ago that never really ran it's course decided to become a chest cold earlier this week.

Feel better, Robr.  Nothing worse than being sick during the holidays.  Good time to take care of yourself.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

maybe you should cook for his dad next year

If he wants to come over here and join us fine.

robr2

abacomike said:

Feel better, Robr.  Nothing worse than being sick during the holidays.  Good time to take care of yourself.

Thanks. Luckily nobody wants to see sales reps over the next few weeks. So it's a good time to just clean the office and make plans for 2015.

abacomike

I was up at my Mercedes Dealership this morning for a car wash and to get an update on the status of my reordered E 400 Sport Sedan.

The car is on a ship somewhere in the central Atlantic Ocean and is scheduled to make the Port of Brunswick in Georgia on Wednesday of next week (Dec. 3rd).  Their best guess is that the car should be at the dealership on or about Wednesday, December 10th.

The first E 400 that was delivered to me is still in the back of the dealership.  They are waiting for Mercedes USA to determine what the are going to do with it.  Whoever buys that car is going to get a great deal because it has to be sold with an amended Monroney Sticker indicating that it does not have two standard features - Lane Tracking and Blindspot Monitors.  Should be interesting!

imidazol97

abacomike said:

The first E 400 that was delivered to me is still in the back of the dealership.  They are waiting for Mercedes USA to determine what the are going to do with it.  Whoever buys that car is going to get a great deal because it has to be sold with an amended Monroney Sticker indicating that it does not have two standard features - Lane Tracking and Blindspot Monitors.  Should be interesting!

Does the dealership have it listed on their internet inventory of new cars available for sale?

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

The first E 400 that was delivered to me is still in the back of the dealership.  They are waiting for Mercedes USA to determine what the are going to do with it.  Whoever buys that car is going to get a great deal because it has to be sold with an amended Monroney Sticker indicating that it does not have two standard features - Lane Tracking and Blindspot Monitors.  Should be interesting!

Does the dealership have it listed on their internet inventory of new cars available for sale?

Yes, Imid.  I saw it yesterday on their web site as an inventory car.  MSRP $69275, I believe.  Gray w/Black leather, E400.  Wonder if they are allowed to sell it or not?

driver100

thebean said:

abacomike said:

@thebean‌

Bean, the Internet manager is very often just a salesman assigned to the Internet department.  In my dealership, everyone was a manager in the Internet department.  The manager of that department just distributed Internet inquiries to the other personnel in his department.

Every sale of a car in a dealership is assigned to a salesman.  In the case of "house deals" (usually s car sold at or very near cost) they are still assigned to salesmen, but the commission is a "mini" which means the minimum commission as listed in that dealership's policy manual.  It's about $100 in a typical low to mid-priced dealership like Chevy, Ford, Chrysler, etc., but varies to as much as $200-$250.  In an upscale dealership like Mercedes, it ranges from $200-$250.

So, someone is still going to make a commission, no matter what.  Remember, someone has to get all the paperwork done and someone still must deliver the car.

Got it.  That clears things up very well.  Thank you for the info and for your patience in explaining it.  I really appreciate it!  Now for the test drives and decision making

I am glad you asked the question "the bean", and Mikes fine and complete answer was interesting to know. I hadn't thought about that before, but it does clarify matters if I am ever in that situation.