Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

roadburner

fintail said:

One can find similar, if less verbose, gripes in MBCA and other MB club chatter, too. It can be summed up with the new car being inferior to the model it replaced, that the brand is racing to the bottom, the sky is falling, etc. Those types have been on that track for 50 or more years, complaining about the new model being terrible.

roadburner said:

I think that the degree of "back patting" depends on the club. I don't think you would find much in the BMW Car Club of America; just one quick scan at the letter column of their monthly Roundel magazine would more than confirm it. Here are some excerpts from an article I wrote back in 2015- my editor printed them verbatim:

Well, I also wrote a sidebar on the latest X5M in January- here's an excerpt:

What's it like to drive? Well, it reminds me of my M235i in that you can leave the steering, suspension, and throttle mapping in Comfort mode and the X5 M will serve as a comfortable cruiser. Ramp the settings up to Sport or Sport+ and the big truck is ready to play. As with almost any BMW, it is deceptively fast; stay in the throttle too long and you will find yourself merging on to I-85 at 100+ mph- at least that's what someone told me. I tried to goad the driver of a new Raptor into an impromptu acceleration test, but he wasn't having any- methinks he knew he would get humiliated. As for fuel economy, I was lucky to see 14 mpg. Bottom line? I'd love to have an X5 M in my garage if I had the money and the garage space- just for giggles and posterity- I suspect that we won't see the like of these steroid-infused behemoths again.

Yes, there are some members who who hold the view that all new BMWs are bad while others love every new Bimmer regardless- but most members aren't so philosophically rigid. One of my friends has a 2002 Turbo, an E30 M3, and an i8. The biggest fan of the 2002 in the club bought an E36 M3 as soon as it came on the market- and followed up with a Mini Cooper S.
Me, I could not stand participating in a club with members that all held the same monolithic view of a particular marque- positive OR negative.

houdini1

stickguy said:

tbirdmarco said:

 Wow Mike that’s messed up with the insurance companies are doing the shooting victims families 

they aren't actually doing anything. Just paying out what the district paid for. Policies have terms. You want a bigger payout, you need to pay a bigger premium.

I am very surprised they don't have at least a 5 or 10 million dollar umbrella above that basic limit. Maybe they are not being fully forthcoming about total limits? In some states you do not have to divulge your limits, etc.. Not sure about Florida.

At any rate, unless there are some local rules in Florida to the contrary, insurance limits have no bearing on what you can sue for or be sued for. It just means you are self insured for the amount of any judgment in excess of your insured limits, so you pay that amount out of pocket. Those victim families can sue for 50 million each if they want to.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

The owner picked up the phone at the second place and told me 2 things that sold me on the Speed Queen;  1) They are the factory service center for SQ.  If something does happen, you call their store, not the 800 number.  2) The owner told me that’s what he has in his own house.

So I’m telling our friends this and the husband says to me, “do you read CR?”  

“No.  Why?”

”They rated the Speed Queen with a 12.”

”Im taking the advice of my friends & the guy who owns the appliance store over a publication that thinks the Prius is one of the greatest vehicles ever made.”

Hah! I see CR rates a Samsung as their top-rated washer. They don't seem to like SQ very much. The SQ is much the same machine they have built forever although I did see a reference that it was just redesigned, so I dunno if that changes things. I guess it comes down to what you want, a long-lived machine that doesn't break down much but also doesn't have all the latest and greatest gee-whiz features, or a machine that looks sexy and claims to do things you never knew you needed as long as it works, which may or may not be very long.

imidazol97

At least we don't have pictures of washing machines on fire. And GM is no longer connected to the now foreign brand frigidaire.
The frigidaire plant became the s10 plant in Moraine, them blazer, now fuyao glass.

imidazol97

Oh, wait...

sda

Weekend clean up. Wife happy.

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

 Wow Mike that’s messed up with the insurance companies are doing the shooting victims families 

I wonder if the media is reporting the whole story. Most organizations have a basic insurance with an umbrella policy once the primary limits are reached. The umbrella covers catastrophic but unlikely events. If the school really only carried $300K on thousands of students it would be worse than incompetent, it would be criminal.

I guess that’s the amount of liability coverage for negligence.  The 34 killed and injured is considered one occurrence, not 34.  The insurance coverage is the maximum per incident.

Proving negligence on the part of the school district is not impossible, but difficult.  But there are other possibly negligent acts that occurred - namely the Broward County Sheriff’s Department - the assigned police deputy was derelict in his duties, from what I understand.  Additionally, the Sheriff’s Department made scores of calls to the home of the perpetrator, but nothing happened to identify the young man’s mental state like a referral to a psychiatric intake clinic or hospital.  Thus, the Sheriff’s Department might/could be sued for negligence, I would think.  DCFS might be another.

But I agree that it is criminal to carry only $300,000 in liability, per incident.  I’m sure all schools in the county have the same carrier.

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

 Wow Mike that’s messed up with the insurance companies are doing the shooting victims families 

I wonder if the media is reporting the whole story. Most organizations have a basic insurance with an umbrella policy once the primary limits are reached. The umbrella covers catastrophic but unlikely events. If the school really only carried $300K on thousands of students it would be worse than incompetent, it would be criminal.

Even I carry a 1 million dollar umbrella policy for liability.  It covers most liability claims above my auto ($250,000) or my homeowner’s ($300,000) insurance depending on the type of claim - auto involved or personal liability involved.  The cost - $276 per year - is worth the yearly premium.

explorerx4

@fintail,
Geez, thanks a lot, now here come the Pinto pictures.

driver100

It wasn't you Marco.

That ad was a good find. I wonder if anyone responded? Must be sent in from Russia.

ab348

Did some more digging on Speed Queen. Seems not all is the same as it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8H8vFd2ONg&feature=youtu.be

and this comparison to the earlier model:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js8d82dvkmE

FWIW, this same guy recommends this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpsrrjSXw5o

So really, who knows...

oldfarmer50

My wife always did ok with the old washing system:



But being the nice guy I am, I recently got her an updated version:

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

Post didn't say "A car was on fire", it said an "MB" was on fire.
I think that implies it was brand specific....but, then I am extra sensitive.

The pic was blurry and the original source used the same terminology so I just repeated it.

I'll accept that. This one was interesting....not sure of the brand;


Or this one


You can google any brand...."picture______________on fire".

Always picking on GM. Aren't there other car companies with cars on fire?

Not like abs :@

ab348

As the Law of Holes states, "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging."

driver100

ab348 said:

As the Law of Holes states, "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is to stop digging."

Does that apply to the A types too?

OK, I won't say any particular brand of car could be on fire;

tjc78

I’ll just say this... today’s washers while being high tech and energy efficient just don’t get the clothes as clean as the older stuff.   

Ive got two sets in my house.  Downstairs a 7-8 year old Maytag high efficiency top loader.  Upstairs a very high line Maytag set.  

We have young children and there are inevitable potty accidents.   I’m not entirely happy that the upstairs Maytag won’t completely eliminate the residual odor all the time.   We use good Laundry soap (Tide).  For whatever reason the older one gets them clean all the time.  I’m comparing both machines equal wash cycles with cold water.  I end up pre treating things that go upstairs.  

The upstairs one sure are pretty though lol. 

Mr_Shiftright

Well perhaps I did overload it a little bit:

explorerx4

The newer washers don't seem to use as much water to clean the clothes.
I think it also wears them out quicker, too.

Mr_Shiftright

I've always heard that front-loaders are more efficient for water use.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

I've always heard that front-loaders are more efficient for water use.

They are, and apparently now your federal govt is mandating that even top-loaders need to use less water, which is why some of them don't clean as well as they used to.

tjc78

Ours has a “deep water wash”. Using that makes it perform more like a traditional washer.   For 90% of what we put through they work great.  It’s just with certain things you can tell the older (water wasters) work better.   

My mom (who lives with us) hates them and told me she preferred her 10 year old entry level Kenmore she had at her house.  

fintail

You should have seen the crying and hand-wringing when the CLA was introduced. Suddenly MB was going to have the same cachet as a Kia Rio with no wheels. Funny thing, it has been nearly half a decade since the announcement, and things are still just fine. Weird how the crybabies were wrong.

roadburner said:

Yes, there are some members who who hold the view that all new BMWs are bad while others love every new Bimmer regardless- but most members aren't so philosophically rigid. One of my friends has a 2002 Turbo, an E30 M3, and an i8. The biggest fan of the 2002 in the club bought an E36 M3 as soon as it came on the market- and followed up with a Mini Cooper S.
Me, I could not stand participating in a club with members that all held the same monolithic view of a particular marque- positive OR negative.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well perhaps I did overload it a little bit:

You probably scorched your underwear real good!

imidazol97

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Well perhaps I did overload it a little bit:

You probably scorched your underwear real good!

It washes and dries things both. Well, maybe they get a little beyond "dried."

tbirdmarco

 Agreed with you old farmer 

tbirdmarco

 Glad it wasn’t me driver 100 ha ha 

tbirdmarco

 Wow the damn government regulating wash repeat washing machines to getting their hands in everything and we too much that’s a dormant for you no good just my two cents 

tbirdmarco

 Through over regulating cars too much which he been doing for years putting all these unnecessary safety features to meet him play more expensive although some of them are good yes on believable how much we could do ha ha Ha again just my two cents hall 

tbirdmarco

 Enjoyed reading everything throughout the day everyone 

driver100

My brother hasn't driven his Hyundai Accent for 2 months...so he wanted to make sure it would start and run so we can take it to the dealers tomorrow.

It started right away and it ran fine. It has a spirited little engine for in the city. Not great on the highway. It has a great suspension, hits bumps with a nice thud and it feels very solid. I do find the steering a bit loosey goosey.

I don't feel that safe driving it on the highway, it feels light and not very powerful. It is not satisfying - just basic transportation getting you from A to B, no fun element at all. Then again, for $6000 it seems to hum along not too badly.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

My brother hasn't driven his Hyundai Accent for 2 months...so he wanted to make sure it would start and run so we can take it to the dealers tomorrow.

It started right away and it ran fine. It has a spirited little engine for in the city. Not great on the highway. It has a great suspension, hits bumps with a nice thud and it feels very solid. I do find the steering a bit loosey goosey.

I don't feel that safe driving it on the highway, it feels light and not very powerful. It is not satisfying - just basic transportation getting you from A to B, no fun element at all. Then again, for $6000 it seems to hum along not too badly.

But what about the rear legroom? We need a report on that? LOL

On a serious note, I believe that tires have a big role to play in how stuck-to-the-road the steering feels. The green tires that roll easily for better gas mileage don't give a connected feeling. Higher quality tires give a better feeling. I drove a 2014 Malibu that was a loaner from the dealer when they serviced son's Cruze. It had replacement Firestone tires on 16 inch rims, maybe 17 inch, that the dealer had put on. As an LS it may have come with that same brand and type tire. Compared to the higher quality tires from Goodyear (Eagle LS2?) on my Malibu, those were squishy.

On most car lines, when you opt for a higher cost model, the tire quality goes up which is part of the cost for the jump to the next higher model.

28firefighter

Agreed regarding tires playing a huge role in feeling confident and safe driving a car. 

My Dad always told me growing up that good tires would save your life. 

jmonroe

sda said:

Weekend clean up. Wife happy.

That looks pretty good from here but it is only supposed to warm up to about 66 F here the Burgh today. For me that is still too cold to wash cars outside. If I could get them washed I could get them in the garage for a good waxing. I always wax in the garage, especially in the heat of the Summer because the garage is much cooler, even has some A/C.

This weather is starting to get to me. A guy can't even take care of his cars with the weather we've had around here. If I could only get my hands on Punxsutawney Phil I know I can get him to change his mind. :@

jmonroe

jmonroe

tjc78 said:

I’ll just say this... today’s washers while being high tech and energy efficient just don’t get the clothes as clean as the older stuff.   

Ive got two sets in my house.  Downstairs a 7-8 year old Maytag high efficiency top loader.  Upstairs a very high line Maytag set.  

We have young children and there are inevitable potty accidents.   I’m not entirely happy that the upstairs Maytag won’t completely eliminate the residual odor all the time.   We use good Laundry soap (Tide).  For whatever reason the older one gets them clean all the time.  I’m comparing both machines equal wash cycles with cold water.  I end up pre treating things that go upstairs.  

The upstairs one sure are pretty though lol. 

I agree that your washer and dryer are pretty but that is not why you bought them.

I've had enough with all this energy savings thingy that really doesn't save energy. I'll list just a few:

(1) Toilets that need flushed more than once. No water savings there.

(2) Washers that need to wash clothes twice, sometimes. Again no water savings there.

(3) Dryers that don't have the same heat as the old dryers. A little story about this:

When we thought we had to replace the inherited 1987 Maytag a couple years ago because I wrongly thought it was leaking (it turned out to be an intermittent leak from the Watts single handle shut off valve) we were told by a salesman that the washers today spin the cloths much dryer. Therefore, you save energy because you don't need as much heat to dry them. When I questioned that by asking what happens when you have an old washer that still works and the cloths are not as dry when they are plunked into the dryer, his response was, "dry them again" and in our case the 20 year old dryer needs replaced anyhow so, "bite the bullet now, why wait for it to quit with a load of wet clothes in them"? That almost sounds like a car salesman pointing out why cars are better today. I guess if I were selling dryers, I'd say that too. Again no real energy savings.

(4) Last one and this one bugs me the most. Water heaters tout how much energy you save with them compared to the old ones. Well guess what; I didn't buy that SOB to save energy. I bought it for HOT water and the more the merrier.

I better stop now before this turns into a rant.

jmonroe

28firefighter

@jmonroe, you need your own column in the newspaper.

tbirdmarco

 Agreed with all above 

Michaell

jmonroe said:

I better stop now before this turns into a rant.

jmonroe

Too late!

dino001

I just bought a new dishwasher. My old one was 12 years old, Frigidaire Gallery. $500 or so model sold on at a closeout/clearance pricing, so it was quite a bargain (around $300+). It worked well for a while, wasn't particularly noisy and it cleaned well, until.. it stopped (cleaning well). It still worked (in nominal terms), but dishes were a bit dim, glass was certainly not shiny, etc. Rather than trying to fix it, I decided it was time. I wanted something nice and clever enough, third rack for silverware and large spoons/ladles, flexible setup on the racks (can push them up and down, as needed). All new ones are also very quiet in comparison to the old ones, so I didn't even care to look for a particular decibel level. Selected this LG, it was sold at a great discount at Costco, with installation included (albeit on weekdays only), all was good. The price point is certainly higher than my old one, but I can see where it went - features, design, etc. It was $1000 list price, I got it at $710 with installation (plus tax). Still well below those pricey Bosch or Kitchenaid "premium" items. Looks quite sharp, it's really quiet, even has a wifi, but the app is so basic, I don't see the point. However...
It falls short in the most important department - the cleaning. It does the basics alright - takes the big stuff out, no food particles left, but the glass have some solid spots and the dishes have streaks. I think it's the shine finish application (and rinsing) that is not really that good. Maybe it's my water? Also drying is just sub par. I learned to my surprise that many of those new fancy dishwashers no longer have heating elements (my old one did), so how in the world can it really dry anything well, unless you wait forever? I guess you pay more for the "green energy", mostly seems it just not to put something on. So, when I take stuff out, the dishes and glass is dry, but the pots are essentially wet, with big drops of water on their large flat surfaces (those facing bottom). If I keep those long enough, they'll also turn into spots.

I'm frankly quite disappointed. I expected much more at $1000+/- list price level (minus nice discount from Costco). If it were as simple as grabbing it and bringing to a store for a refund, I would have done it. I feel stuck and a bit cheated with the hype. Perhaps I'm unreasonable... Am I?

fezo

jmonroe said:

tjc78 said:

I’ll just say this... today’s washers while being high tech and energy efficient just don’t get the clothes as clean as the older stuff.   

Ive got two sets in my house.  Downstairs a 7-8 year old Maytag high efficiency top loader.  Upstairs a very high line Maytag set.  

We have young children and there are inevitable potty accidents.   I’m not entirely happy that the upstairs Maytag won’t completely eliminate the residual odor all the time.   We use good Laundry soap (Tide).  For whatever reason the older one gets them clean all the time.  I’m comparing both machines equal wash cycles with cold water.  I end up pre treating things that go upstairs.  

The upstairs one sure are pretty though lol. 

I agree that your washer and dryer are pretty but that is not why you bought them.

I've had enough with all this energy savings thingy that really doesn't save energy. I'll list just a few:

(1) Toilets that need flushed more than once. No water savings there.

(2) Washers that need to wash clothes twice, sometimes. Again no water savings there.

(3) Dryers that don't have the same heat as the old dryers. A little story about this:

When we thought we had to replace the inherited 1987 Maytag a couple years ago because I wrongly thought it was leaking (it turned out to be an intermittent leak from the Watts single handle shut off valve) we were told by a salesman that the washers today spin the cloths much dryer. Therefore, you save energy because you don't need as much heat to dry them. When I questioned that by asking what happens when you have an old washer that still works and the cloths are not as dry when they are plunked into the dryer, his response was, "dry them again" and in our case the 20 year old dryer needs replaced anyhow so, "bite the bullet now, why wait for it to quit with a load of wet clothes in them"? That almost sounds like a car salesman pointing out why cars are better today. I guess if I were selling dryers, I'd say that too. Again no real energy savings.

(4) Last one and this one bugs me the most. Water heaters tout how much energy you save with them compared to the old ones. Well guess what; I didn't buy that SOB to save energy. I bought it for HOT water and the more the merrier.

I better stop now before this turns into a rant.

jmonroe

What would it take for you to buy a new dryer today?

Glad to see we're back into kitchen appliances where we belong.

Same old same old on me. Still pretty recovered but still not entirely 6 years post-transplant. Slightly compromised immune system and iron level still not down to normal range (all those transfusions really did a number on that). Now, it started going up again after 6 years of going down. I'm kind of stumped on that one.

driver100

Well, not a very good day for the Hyundai Accent buy back! (longer than a JMonroe but way more interesting)
Remember, dealer said they would give us $6000. I didn't expect that, I was hoping for $5400 and my bottom line was $5000.
When I got the $6000 offer, I didn't know there was a split from an minor accident on the back bumper. I also spotted a ding in the side panel near the rear door.
But, salesman asked a million questions and I found out a lot of things I didn't know about. Apparently the ding in the rear bumper was from a guy rear ending the Accent, and then the trunk opens with a bit of a thud because of it.
My brother didn't tell me he hit a pylon and did $500 damage to the front end, bumper and headlight area.
The salesman pointed out one wheel disc was mangled and the wheel badly scraped and also the tires are almost bald and would have to be replaced.
After, I didn't see it in the dark garage, but, my brother said the rear door got scraped and dented when a brick was thrown at the car parked next to him, it was being broken into, and the brick slammed into his car.
Anyway, there offer was for $4000.
I was upset and I stormed out....but on looking back on it, I was willing to accept $5000 before I knoe about the accidents and the brick and the tires....so maybe it was fair.

I told my brother I want to check with the indie used car lot just to see, I think he could give us $4500 to $4800 because he wouldn't have to fix the car up to the same degree.
We got about half way there, about 4 miles and my brother was upset, he just wanted his money. He said he would be happy with $3000 so $4000 was like a bonus.
I wanted to go to the used car lot because I don't like to be taken advantage of. I feel they played the usual dealer crap and I would rather keep going until I got at least $4500....anything not to give in to the usual car dealer crap.
He pleaded with me to take it to the legitimate dealer.....get his check, he didn't have the energy to mess around. One point that was true....it was his car and he could sell it for what he wanted.
When I stormed out the salesman and his manager stayed calm, although they were in disbelief when I said I was leaving, I didn't have the time or patience for their games. They did say if you come back we will still give you $4000.
We went back, against my better judgement.
The manager said he couldn't give us a check for $4000 today because it was the end of the month....if we come back Wednesday he will give us the check.
My brother was afraid the indie guys check would bounce and he believed the dealership was honest etc...this was almost as bad as going to the used car lot.
I have to go back to get the check for $4000. He wanted to hold onto the ownership and give us a copy....but, I insisted we get the real one and they get the copy, I don't want them tying us up for weeks to get our money.

What a day! Makes me want to take a shower.....and glad I don't have to deal with Hyundai dealers.

fezo

Meanwhile, is Ford trying to go out of business?

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/04/30/ford-ceo-jim-hacketts-decision-to-dump-cars-may-prove-fatal.html

I mean, we've seen this movie before. When gas starts popping up in price, these things will again be bargains for the people who really want such things, while the good mileage sedans will be hot commodities and Ford won't have anything on the drawing board, let alone production ready.

Even forgetting before this announcement, given a field that includes Camry, Accord, Legacy, Mazda 6, Altima, even a friggin Malibu, what on earth would possess one to buy a Fusion? Now, you're going to buy a car that they promise to stop next year? The Focus will stop production next month.

When you drop the bread and butter segment for come makers, is this not basically surrender?

stickguy

Driver, the $4,000 sounds like a gift anyway. You said he paid that much a few years ago, and since then has basically trashed the car. Yet he got to drive for free all that time?

I would not get made at the dealer. They gave you a number based on a description which sounds like you told them it was basically clean and ready to go. And that the # was subject to adjustment for problems they did not know about. So seems more than fair to me.

coldinohio

dino001 said:

I just bought a new dishwasher. My old one was 12 years old, Frigidaire Gallery. $500 or so model sold on at a closeout/clearance pricing, so it was quite a bargain (around $300+). It worked well for a while, wasn't particularly noisy and it cleaned well, until.. it stopped (cleaning well). It still worked (in nominal terms), but dishes were a bit dim, glass was certainly not shiny, etc. Rather than trying to fix it, I decided it was time. I wanted something nice and clever enough, third rack for silverware and large spoons/ladles, flexible setup on the racks (can push them up and down, as needed). All new ones are also very quiet in comparison to the old ones, so I didn't even care to look for a particular decibel level. Selected this LG, it was sold at a great discount at Costco, with installation included (albeit on weekdays only), all was good. The price point is certainly higher than my old one, but I can see where it went - features, design, etc. It was $1000 list price, I got it at $710 with installation (plus tax). Still well below those pricey Bosch or Kitchenaid "premium" items. Looks quite sharp, it's really quiet, even has a wifi, but the app is so basic, I don't see the point. However...
It falls short in the most important department - the cleaning. It does the basics alright - takes the big stuff out, no food particles left, but the glass have some solid spots and the dishes have streaks. I think it's the shine finish application (and rinsing) that is not really that good. Maybe it's my water? Also drying is just sub par. I learned to my surprise that many of those new fancy dishwashers no longer have heating elements (my old one did), so how in the world can it really dry anything well, unless you wait forever? I guess you pay more for the "green energy", mostly seems it just not to put something on. So, when I take stuff out, the dishes and glass is dry, but the pots are essentially wet, with big drops of water on their large flat surfaces (those facing bottom). If I keep those long enough, they'll also turn into spots.

I'm frankly quite disappointed. I expected much more at $1000+/- list price level (minus nice discount from Costco). If it were as simple as grabbing it and bringing to a store for a refund, I would have done it. I feel stuck and a bit cheated with the hype. Perhaps I'm unreasonable... Am I?

we are in the great DW chase to replace 10 y/o kitchenaid -KA-(high end whirlpool IIRC)

wife wanted miele-- very expensive but all our repair guys say it is a 20y DW-- all German -- but very sensitive to water pressure on installation

so down to KA , Bosch, Kenmore -- we ruled out LG and Samsung due to issues with repairs/parts unavailable for repairs/ and the repair guys and older appliance stores selling but not liking them

anyway, we will end up with a mid-level bosch (built in US) in the next few weeks

we will see how it does....

explorerx4

@dino001,
We have an LG dishwasher,
It's quiet, musical and has some nice blue lights that blink.
maybe change the soap you are using?
We use those Cascade soap/conditioner pods and the dishes don't have any spots after drying.
Usually wash the pans, as we use them several times between dishwasher runs.

fezo

We have a Samsung washing machine - top load without an agitator - essentially a horizontal front-load. It's been the best thing we've had in that department. Its predecessor had been a front load Kenmore that was instant junk. Our dryer, which predates the fall of Kenmore is a Kenmore as is our dishwasher which we've had for better than a decade with no issues.

imidazol97

@dino001
I suggest Bubble Bandit for dishwasher soap. Available on the internet, Ebay, elsewhere.

Is your water hot enough since what I think you said is the dishwasher does not have it's own heater
to save energy?

I assume you're using a rinse aid as well to eliminate water spotting?

driver100

stickguy said:

Driver, the $4,000 sounds like a gift anyway. You said he paid that much a few years ago, and since then has basically trashed the car. Yet he got to drive for free all that time?

I would not get made at the dealer. They gave you a number based on a description which sounds like you told them it was basically clean and ready to go. And that the # was subject to adjustment for problems they did not know about. So seems more than fair to me.

Stick, it probably is a fair price. My brother said he paid $4000 difference between his 10 year old Civic and the Accent, but, got mixed up. By accident we came across his invoice yesterday....he paid $17000 for the Accent, and he got $4000 for his trade in.

The dealer said $6000, but if you subtract tires, the ding on the side and the bumper, wheel disc and wheel, the fact it was in two damaging accidents.......I think at least $4500 would make sense, but, my brother can't handle the tension. I guess the dealer doesn't have much choice but to give you an offer that gets you in the door, or we wouldn't have gone. When I walked out I didn't know about some of the damage...like the marks and scratches from the brick....so, $4000 isn't unreasonable....and 6 years of driving for $12000 is about as good as it gets.

It was particularly upsetting, that the sales rep told me $6000 on the phone, and then when the manager said $4000, the salesman said "I did tell you it would be between $5000 and $6000, take off the repairs it needs". He never mentioned $5000 on the phone.

Sleazy also making us go back....we can't write a check because it is the end of the month....is this a Mickey Mouse dealership?

driver100

coldinohio said:

dino001 said:

I just bought a new dishwasher. My old one was 12 years old, Frigidaire Gallery. $500 or so model sold on at a closeout/clearance pricing, so it was quite a bargain (around $300+). It worked well for a while, wasn't particularly noisy and it cleaned well, until.. it stopped (cleaning well). It still worked (in nominal terms), but dishes were a bit dim, glass was certainly not shiny, etc. Rather than trying to fix it, I decided it was time. I wanted something nice and clever enough, third rack for silverware and large spoons/ladles, flexible setup on the racks (can push them up and down, as needed). All new ones are also very quiet in comparison to the old ones, so I didn't even care to look for a particular decibel level. Selected this LG, it was sold at a great discount at Costco, with installation included (albeit on weekdays only), all was good. The price point is certainly higher than my old one, but I can see where it went - features, design, etc. It was $1000 list price, I got it at $710 with installation (plus tax). Still well below those pricey Bosch or Kitchenaid "premium" items. Looks quite sharp, it's really quiet, even has a wifi, but the app is so basic, I don't see the point. However...
It falls short in the most important department - the cleaning. It does the basics alright - takes the big stuff out, no food particles left, but the glass have some solid spots and the dishes have streaks. I think it's the shine finish application (and rinsing) that is not really that good. Maybe it's my water? Also drying is just sub par. I learned to my surprise that many of those new fancy dishwashers no longer have heating elements (my old one did), so how in the world can it really dry anything well, unless you wait forever? I guess you pay more for the "green energy", mostly seems it just not to put something on. So, when I take stuff out, the dishes and glass is dry, but the pots are essentially wet, with big drops of water on their large flat surfaces (those facing bottom). If I keep those long enough, they'll also turn into spots.

I'm frankly quite disappointed. I expected much more at $1000+/- list price level (minus nice discount from Costco). If it were as simple as grabbing it and bringing to a store for a refund, I would have done it. I feel stuck and a bit cheated with the hype. Perhaps I'm unreasonable... Am I?

we are in the great DW chase to replace 10 y/o kitchenaid -KA-(high end whirlpool IIRC)

wife wanted miele-- very expensive but all our repair guys say it is a 20y DW-- all German -- but very sensitive to water pressure on installation

so down to KA , Bosch, Kenmore -- we ruled out LG and Samsung due to issues with repairs/parts unavailable for repairs/ and the repair guys and older appliance stores selling but not liking them

anyway, we will end up with a mid-level bosch (built in US) in the next few weeks

we will see how it does....

Bosch is good....just don't stop it before the cycle is over or it will be a pain to get it going again. Other than that, they work great....we have one here and in Florida.

driver100

Hi (delete)

driver100

The salesman did say to my brother.......he should consider an Elantra Sport model that was in the showroom.....looked pretty nice: