Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

suydam

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

henryn said:

graphicguy said:

If a deal is made for a Sentra, at first blush, here’s the way I see it getting done, if you are really good at the negotiation table.

2018 Sentra base w/manual trans.....$15,000 (probably closer to $16,000 given the dealer will have to overallow on the trade)+ TTL.

2011 Kia Soul base w/manual trans (not sure the mileage, but let’s average 12K/year for 84K miles)......$2K trade (and you’re going to have to work hard to get that). I say the dealer comes in between $1,200 and $1,500 trade on first pencil.

It's a good deal worse then that. If I recall correctly, he owes about $5k on the Kia Soul, putting him upside down about $3k. And it doesn't sound like he has the money to pay off the Kia, so he will have to fold that into the next purchase.

A bad position to be in, all around.

Not sure where lending institutions are coming from these days, but that deal may not be approved without hefty out of pocket. Maybe subprime, but even there, a bad situation would be made even worse.

How's this for a complicated deal......my niece wants to buy her brother's 2017 Civic. Brother bought it in Maryland and rolled negative equity from his trade into the loan. Loan is from Maryland and in that state I understand the bank keeps the title. Indications are he owes $22k on a car worth maybe $16k. Niece has no credit history to speak of so her parents need to cosign. They have tier 1credit but are carrying a lot of debt.

I told them they might have to put in some cash but I'm not sure how much. Are credit unions loaning more than 100% on used cars these days?

He pays off the negative equity. Why would she pay more than the car is worth? Otherwise, run away. Lease a new Civic if necessary.

roadburner

Since 2001 I've covered four BMW press introductions for Roundel magazine; one was a US intro, the rest were International intros. In two cases I was able to drive a car home and keep it for 10 days. In addition I was loaned two additional cars for other Roundel stories I was writing.
It's no secret that BMW treats journalists very well. That said, it didn't keep Car and Driver from criticizing Munich's lurch towards isolation and away from communicative steering and competent suspensions. A BMW didn't even make the 10 Best list this year. Road & Track was decidedly lukewarm towards the M235i when it was introduced. My latest article covering the intro of the F16 X6 was less than complementary, but I have not been called to task by either my editor or BMW.

All of the above is a roundabout way of saying that I don't think the majority of automotive writers for the major car magazines have a bias against a particular marque. As dino001 correctly observed, most writers are car enthusiasts, and an average car at the rock bottom of the market that does not distinguish itself in any way is simply not going to receive enthusiastic plaudits. Some of my cars have been praised by one magazine and seriously criticized by others. That doesn't bother me- but when every enthusiast magazine I trust agrees that a vehicle is not at all impressive I almost certainly won't consider owning it.

And I can honestly state that I have never purchased a vehicle that finished last in a 5-6 car CD comparison test.
But that's just me

oldfarmer50

suydam said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

henryn said:

graphicguy said:

If a deal is made for a Sentra, at first blush, here’s the way I see it getting done, if you are really good at the negotiation table.

2018 Sentra base w/manual trans.....$15,000 (probably closer to $16,000 given the dealer will have to overallow on the trade)+ TTL.

2011 Kia Soul base w/manual trans (not sure the mileage, but let’s average 12K/year for 84K miles)......$2K trade (and you’re going to have to work hard to get that). I say the dealer comes in between $1,200 and $1,500 trade on first pencil.

It's a good deal worse then that. If I recall correctly, he owes about $5k on the Kia Soul, putting him upside down about $3k. And it doesn't sound like he has the money to pay off the Kia, so he will have to fold that into the next purchase.

A bad position to be in, all around.

Not sure where lending institutions are coming from these days, but that deal may not be approved without hefty out of pocket. Maybe subprime, but even there, a bad situation would be made even worse.

How's this for a complicated deal......my niece wants to buy her brother's 2017 Civic. Brother bought it in Maryland and rolled negative equity from his trade into the loan. Loan is from Maryland and in that state I understand the bank keeps the title. Indications are he owes $22k on a car worth maybe $16k. Niece has no credit history to speak of so her parents need to cosign. They have tier 1credit but are carrying a lot of debt.

I told them they might have to put in some cash but I'm not sure how much. Are credit unions loaning more than 100% on used cars these days?

He pays off the negative equity. Why would she pay more than the car is worth? Otherwise, run away. Lease a new Civic if necessary.

Good point. I think having brother pay off the negitive equity is in the plan somewhere.

venture

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

Doesn't matter, if he likes the car what does it matter what the reviews are. Drive what you like.

I agree, but I'm always surprised at how a person can lust after a vehicle that most every reviewer thinks is uninspiring at best.
Well, they say that there's a butt for every seat...

The Sentra certainly is uninspiring, That said, that's what I bought for my son when he started college. He didn't want anything "flashy". It served him well for 5 years of college and his first year of work. All we did to it was an occasional oil change and threw a couple of tires on it.

When he was finished with it, it looked tired and a little ragged. He traded it on a new BMW.

If anyone expects any more than that out of a Sentra, they will be disappointed.

roadburner

venture said:

The Sentra certainly is uninspiring, That said, that's what I bought for my son when he started college. He didn't want anything "flashy". It served him well for 5 years of college and his first year of work. All we did to it was an occasional oil change and threw a couple of tires on it.

When he was finished with it, it looked tired and a little ragged. He traded it on a new BMW.

If anyone expects any more than that out of a Sentra, they will be disappointed.

Precisely, it's an appliance; if you know that going in you won't be disappointed(much).

venture

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

The “...he said when would you like to come in...” line is part of the curriculum for all new car salesmen!  He didn’t say, “...$13,999 out the door is a deal.  When would you like to come in?...” means something totally different!” 

Which is why I wouldn't last long at 99% of the mass market dealerships. The deals I made over the phone and via email were solid- with no surprises for the customer when he/she came to pick up the car.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when/if iluv actually shows up in person.

I have the same problem going to those. Since I bought my 2003 WRX, I was spoiled by a straightforward experience I got in both Subaru and BMW dealerships. I didn't always hear what I wanted to hear, but I never had anybody going back on anything. On the other hand, stories I heard from others about their experiences buying their "mainstream" cars were just appalling. Korean and Japanese seem to be worst offenders, by far - at least anecdotally. I truly abhor Honda places - they give me real creeps, every time I step in. More even so than Hyundai or Kia. Don't even know exactly why. Perhaps it's those shameless worthless add-ons and ADM stickers still lingering there on some vehicles. Recently our new employee, a young UF masters grad bought a new CRV (nice vehicle) with one of those "packages" and the thing wasn't even put on the vehicle. Won't even mention how the whole "dealing" went when he was buying. It took him to go to a manager to execute on that stuff. His salesman wouldn't take a call and was gone within couple of weeks, anyway. Just plain awful stuff, but they get away with it, because... you guessed it, "it's a Honda".

I just learned to limit my exposure to those places to bare minimum, which ended up being four-five times in last 15 years, when I thought I was shopping for something (then changed my mind). Lucky me, I can afford to be picky.

Right before I bought the Legacy I stopped at the Honda dealer to look at the Civic. The place made my skin crawl. I thought it was just me.

I didn't get more than 10 feet inside the door. I was supposed to meet the manager, but he was on the phone. I slinked out and went away.

oldfarmer50

Ok, figured out how to update. Never mind.

jmonroe1

explorerx4 said:

I think I burned out the scroll wheel.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It doesn't take much to get them smoking. That's when I back off and let it cool down. No sense ruining good hardware on a post that changes tomorrow.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

venture said:

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

The “...he said when would you like to come in...” line is part of the curriculum for all new car salesmen!  He didn’t say, “...$13,999 out the door is a deal.  When would you like to come in?...” means something totally different!” 

Which is why I wouldn't last long at 99% of the mass market dealerships. The deals I made over the phone and via email were solid- with no surprises for the customer when he/she came to pick up the car.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when/if iluv actually shows up in person.

I have the same problem going to those. Since I bought my 2003 WRX, I was spoiled by a straightforward experience I got in both Subaru and BMW dealerships. I didn't always hear what I wanted to hear, but I never had anybody going back on anything. On the other hand, stories I heard from others about their experiences buying their "mainstream" cars were just appalling. Korean and Japanese seem to be worst offenders, by far - at least anecdotally. I truly abhor Honda places - they give me real creeps, every time I step in. More even so than Hyundai or Kia. Don't even know exactly why. Perhaps it's those shameless worthless add-ons and ADM stickers still lingering there on some vehicles. Recently our new employee, a young UF masters grad bought a new CRV (nice vehicle) with one of those "packages" and the thing wasn't even put on the vehicle. Won't even mention how the whole "dealing" went when he was buying. It took him to go to a manager to execute on that stuff. His salesman wouldn't take a call and was gone within couple of weeks, anyway. Just plain awful stuff, but they get away with it, because... you guessed it, "it's a Honda".

I just learned to limit my exposure to those places to bare minimum, which ended up being four-five times in last 15 years, when I thought I was shopping for something (then changed my mind). Lucky me, I can afford to be picky.

Right before I bought the Legacy I stopped at the Honda dealer to look at the Civic. The place made my skin crawl. I thought it was just me.

I didn't get more than 10 feet inside the door. I was supposed to meet the manager, but he was on the phone. I slinked out and went away.

Never even got that far. Got the stink eye from a salesman at the auto show for daring to ask to sit inside an Accord. It seems i was not considered Honda material.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

dino001 said:

roadburner said:

abacomike said:

The “...he said when would you like to come in...” line is part of the curriculum for all new car salesmen!  He didn’t say, “...$13,999 out the door is a deal.  When would you like to come in?...” means something totally different!” 

Which is why I wouldn't last long at 99% of the mass market dealerships. The deals I made over the phone and via email were solid- with no surprises for the customer when he/she came to pick up the car.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall when/if iluv actually shows up in person.

I have the same problem going to those. Since I bought my 2003 WRX, I was spoiled by a straightforward experience I got in both Subaru and BMW dealerships. I didn't always hear what I wanted to hear, but I never had anybody going back on anything. On the other hand, stories I heard from others about their experiences buying their "mainstream" cars were just appalling. Korean and Japanese seem to be worst offenders, by far - at least anecdotally. I truly abhor Honda places - they give me real creeps, every time I step in. More even so than Hyundai or Kia. Don't even know exactly why. Perhaps it's those shameless worthless add-ons and ADM stickers still lingering there on some vehicles. Recently our new employee, a young UF masters grad bought a new CRV (nice vehicle) with one of those "packages" and the thing wasn't even put on the vehicle. Won't even mention how the whole "dealing" went when he was buying. It took him to go to a manager to execute on that stuff. His salesman wouldn't take a call and was gone within couple of weeks, anyway. Just plain awful stuff, but they get away with it, because... you guessed it, "it's a Honda".

I just learned to limit my exposure to those places to bare minimum, which ended up being four-five times in last 15 years, when I thought I was shopping for something (then changed my mind). Lucky me, I can afford to be picky.

Right before I bought the Legacy I stopped at the Honda dealer to look at the Civic. The place made my skin crawl. I thought it was just me.

I didn't get more than 10 feet inside the door. I was supposed to meet the manager, but he was on the phone. I slinked out and went away.

Never even got that far. Got the stink eye from a salesman at the auto show for daring to ask to sit inside an Accord. It seems i was not considered Honda material.

Hell, I could have told you that OF (j/k).

Iluv...yes, by all means get what you want.

But, that dealership offering the Sentra for $13,9....that sounds like one of those read the fine print sort of deals. If it’s a legit price without something like a $2K doc fee or other BS charge, then they’re going to really hose you on the trade.

Salesman and Sales Manager might be willing to take a hit to make a mini. But, the GM and/or principal is not.

Will anyone hazard a guess as to what the dealer pack is on a base Sentra?

stickguy

a 100k mile Soul is a terrible trade option to start with. Much better to try and sell privately. Even if it means buying a new car w/o the trade, then paying off and selling the old one privately.

dealers don't want something like that, but at a reasonable asking price, there is always a ready market for clean, reliable cheap wheels.

nyccarguy

“I should have taken a left turn at Albuquerque.”

stickguy

wonder how Pismo Beach is these days?

sda

A local dealer is advertising new Chevy Cruze LS for $11k. Then $800 admin, plus mop and glo and other extras that aren't disclosed. It still may be a good buy but I think the teaser price creates a poor overall experience.

snakeweasel

pensfan83 said:

I'm just going to keep on keeping on...

Oh that takes me back...

stickguy

If the van is rocking...

you know the rest.

driver100

iluv: I'll bet that priest would gladly take your tithe on Sunday morning, yet he wouldn't stop and help a man beaten and left for dead on the side of the road.

Yes, there are such people, but I know people who volunteer at food banks, who drive people to their medical appointments, who drive people for Red Cross, who volunteer to run organizations, who have companies and pay salaries and taxes, who offer to teach others and many other great things. I try to avoid the kind of person who doesn't make the world a better place.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

If the van is rocking... 

...I need new shocks.

...we're having an earthquake.

... I've been sideswiped by Iluv in a Sentra.

roadburner

graphicguy said:

Will anyone hazard a guess as to what the dealer pack is on a base Sentra?

Wheels? Carpets? Heater? Passenger side rear view mirror?

abacomike

I just downloaded the new Apple IOS 12.0 for iPhones.  My iPhone 7+ is no longer sluggish and Apps load super fast.  New fonts and a more simplified keyboard that is more user friendly.

My guess is that this new operating system fixed a lot of the bugs they were accused of creating last year.  My phone responds like a brand new smartphone.

Unfortunately, my right index finger is becoming arthritic because of all this scrolling.  Iluv - buy a car and help my right index finger heal up - PLEASE!  Pretty Please.  This has become a soap opera which is expanding exponentially.  Buy what you want secretly and then just surprise us on Friday.  

stickguy

well, he might buy it Thursday, but his wife will knock him out before he will be able to post about it.

roadburner

The Sentra Saga is much like a terrible automotive accident; you can't help but look...

abacomike

stickguy said:

well, he might buy it Thursday, but his wife will knock him out before he will be able to post about it.

Thursday-Friday - tomato-tamato - 6 of one or half dozen of the other.....doesn’t matter which day - just buy something and surprise us all and let my index finger rest and heal!  Thanks. 

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

henryn said:

graphicguy said:

If a deal is made for a Sentra, at first blush, here’s the way I see it getting done, if you are really good at the negotiation table.

2018 Sentra base w/manual trans.....$15,000 (probably closer to $16,000 given the dealer will have to overallow on the trade)+ TTL.

2011 Kia Soul base w/manual trans (not sure the mileage, but let’s average 12K/year for 84K miles)......$2K trade (and you’re going to have to work hard to get that). I say the dealer comes in between $1,200 and $1,500 trade on first pencil.

It's a good deal worse then that. If I recall correctly, he owes about $5k on the Kia Soul, putting him upside down about $3k. And it doesn't sound like he has the money to pay off the Kia, so he will have to fold that into the next purchase.

A bad position to be in, all around.

Not sure where lending institutions are coming from these days, but that deal may not be approved without hefty out of pocket. Maybe subprime, but even there, a bad situation would be made even worse.

How's this for a complicated deal......my niece wants to buy her brother's 2017 Civic. Brother bought it in Maryland and rolled negative equity from his trade into the loan. Loan is from Maryland and in that state I understand the bank keeps the title. Indications are he owes $22k on a car worth maybe $16k. Niece has no credit history to speak of so her parents need to cosign. They have tier 1credit but are carrying a lot of debt.

I told them they might have to put in some cash but I'm not sure how much. Are credit unions loaning more than 100% on used cars these days?

Not sure how that works, especially since the banks tightened credit qualifications. But, some of the predatory lending practices have been reinstated. So, maybe very high, sub prime interest rates are now possible again.

Credit Unions are usually more strict in their lending policies. I don’t think they’d be a target to give lend money on a sub prime risk.

My late Father drilled it into my head from an early age.....if you can’t afford something easily, don’t buy it.

With that as a guide, I’ve found that rolling over negative equity into another loan (especially on a depreciating asset....like a car) is a downward spiral. You are essentially trying to fix a broken financial situation by breaking it even more. You’re going in the wrong direction. You’re adding more negative equity to an already poor financial situation.

I will never give any financial advice, as I’m not qualified to do so. Just making some common sense observations.

iluvmysephia1

All right, you guys. Maybe I'll just hold on to the Soul and forget about trading in at all. Are you all satisfied now? Just kidding. Hey, aren't you guys appreciating that I'm discussing each and every detail of my car search with you? I thought we were all friends.

BTW - I did not like the show 'Friends' starring Jennifer Aniston and David Schwimmer. I was pretty neutral on it. I thought it was kind of a dopey show that garnered way too much praise.


I'll leave you with this, because the '17 Nissan Sentra SR Turbo 6-speed has entered in to the mix once again.

jmonroe1

I don't know about you guys but I'm shocked.

jmonroe

iluvmysephia1

I think these wheels are vantastic.

It's all Nissan - Nissan - Nissan!

iluvmysephia1

Gunmetal grey does this car well - slant-spoke wheels are sweet from Nissan. Turn up the Foghat dudes! Jacksonville's Molly Hatchet will do, too.

It's raining Nissan's, dudes!

Nissan - Nissan - Nissan - Nissan - Nissan!!!!

iluvmysephia1

Nissan!

driver100

I think these wheels are vantastic.


It's all Nissan - Nissan - Nissan!

Last week it was FOCUS - FOCUS - FOCUS

iluvmysephia1

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/america’s-most-stolen-new-cars/ss-BBNwvI1?li=BBnb7Kz#image=15

The 12th most stolen new car in America is Nissan's Sentra. The car stolen the most in America? Nissan's Altima - for it's nice mix of style, comfort and fuel economy.

ab348

Back in the '80s/'90s Chrysler products used to be the most stolen not because they were good or valuable cars, but because their locks were the easiest to overcome. So there's that.

dino001

This statistic is meaningless in terms of actual theft risk assessment without comparison to number of registered vehicles of each model. If 1 Ferrari is stolen out of 100 registered, the risk of theft is 100 times higher than say 100 stolen Civics out of 1 million registered.

dino001

driver100 said:

I think these wheels are vantastic.
It's all Nissan - Nissan - Nissan!

Last week it was FOCUS - FOCUS - FOCUS

LOL. As I recall, before that we had several other installments of The Saga: Impreza, Rio (or was it Spectra?), I think there were several more. By now Mike would have already traded at least three cars . It's got long it the tooth, for sure, especially it seems it may be just like Tesla's buyout (funding is not secured) and the Higher Authority did not give it a green light, either.

iluvmysephia1

Do any of you have Liberty Auto Insurance? If so, are you happy with it as far as cost and service? Have you ever had a bad accident in which Liberty Insurance helped you out? Just curious - they're really hitting us with all sorts of advertisements - but I'm curious if they really deliver.

We have State Farm Auto Insurance - so far it's affordable and, thankfully, we haven't had to use it.

dino001

Every time I asked for a quote, Liberty came with some outlandish price. I have Progressive, in the past I have used Travelers, Ameriprise and old GMAC (not sure what it is now) in the past.

iluvmysephia1

What did you think about Traveler's Car Insurance, dino001?

fintail

If you must have a Sentra, try for the turbo over the base car. There might be a reason they have so many still in stock - not a huge demand, and fleets (a key consumer of these, I believe) generally won't take a manual. I have to imagine residual values on one would be dicey.

graphicguy

Had State Farm. They were fine.....until I had a claim. Then, they became the spawn of a demon. Wouldn’t pay up. Their adjusters were....let’s be kind and say.....DISHONEST. I’m sure they get paid by the number of claims they deny.

Dropped them like a hot potato.

@iluvmysephia1 ...obviously following your ongoing quest. Curious....at one point you were talking about drawing from your pension to help with buying a car. You don’t have to give me an exact number, but generally, how old are you?

That affects all sorts of things...including how dealerships perceive you.

stickguy

I just switched to Allstate. Liberty was a close second. Cheaper on homeowners though. Never had a claim, so can’t comment their.

Had liberty in the past. No issues. They just really did not want to insure my kids. For a couple in their late 50s, no kids, they want that.

bwia

iluvmysephia1 said:

Do any of you have Liberty Auto Insurance? If so, are you happy with it as far as cost and service? Have you ever had a bad accident in which Liberty Insurance helped you out? Just curious - they're really hitting us with all sorts of advertisements - but I'm curious if they really deliver.

Liberty Mutual is a great. We had a claim a few years ago and it was settled quickly and to our satisfaction. With one phone, somebody showed up with a brand new rental and took our car away. A few days later he returned our car nicely fixed, polished and looking showroom new.

roadburner

iluvmysephia1 said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/america’s-most-stolen-new-cars/ss-BBNwvI1?li=BBnb7Kz#image=15

The 12th most stolen new car in America is Nissan's Sentra. The car stolen the most in America? Nissan's Altima - for it's nice mix of style, comfort and fuel economy.

I was stuck in an Altima rental for a couple of days. No thanks.

roadburner

dino001 said:

This statistic is meaningless in terms of actual theft risk assessment without comparison to number of registered vehicles of each model. If 1 Ferrari is stolen out of 100 registered, the risk of theft is 100 times higher than say 100 stolen Civics out of 1 million registered.

Not to mention the fact that most stolen mass market cars are sent to a chop shop for parts- not because the thief actually likes them.

28firefighter

We’ve been with Safeco for a few years now and have been very happy. We had Allstate but after my wife’s little incident with the neighbor’s house, they jacked up our rates beyond belief. Safeco on the other hand was still high, but much more reasonable. And now since the accident fell off our rates have gone back to normal. 

dino001

iluvmysephia1 said:

What did you think about Traveler's Car Insurance, dino001?

It was fine. It's been some time. In Florida it was actually their subsidiary, First Floridian.

iluvmysephia1

graphicguy - I just turned 59. The pension plan idea is a decent one, we may just go with it.

Could switch to Traveler's Insurance. I got a quote that's $15 a month cheaper than State Farm, but didn't switch to it. Barely worth doing, but, $15 is $15. It's a meal for 3 at McDonald's, right? Unless you have a family of 6.

dino001

iluvmysephia1 said:

graphicguy - I just turned 59. The pension plan idea is a decent one, we may just go with it.

Could switch to Traveler's Insurance. I got a quote that's $15 a month cheaper than State Farm, but didn't switch to it. Barely worth doing, but, $15 is $15. It's a meal for 3 at McDonald's, right? Unless you have a family of 6.

$15/month is a lot! It's $180/year. In my case, that would be more than 15 percent of the premium. I never think it terms "per month". All you need to do is move that dot one place to get a real idea how much it actually is. I pay in full for my insurance every six months. Progressive gives me over 20 percent discount for that. Generally, I hate installments, unless they are at true no interest, no fee.

nyccarguy

iluvmysephia1 said:

graphicguy - I just turned 59. The pension plan idea is a decent one, we may just go with it.

Could switch to Traveler's Insurance. I got a quote that's $15 a month cheaper than State Farm, but didn't switch to it. Barely worth doing, but, $15 is $15. It's a meal for 3 at McDonald's, right? Unless you have a family of 6.

$15 per month x 12 months = $180 in my warped world.  Your Mileage May Vary

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

$15/month is a lot! It's $180/year. 

That's like 2 small lattes at Starbucks.

snakeweasel

We have had state farm for around 20 years. Never had an issue with claims and everytime we shop around we cant find anyone with enough of a difference to switch.

The only issue was for the motorcycle, they didnt offer a discount for taking the MSF class which made them somewhat pricey compared to others.