Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

snakeweasel

Michaell said:

That year born plus age thing doesn't work for me. I'm 54, born in 1963, so 2017. Guess that makes me special.

it just means you haven't had your birthday yet this year.

snakeweasel

dino001 said:

They had done one thing which I had not seen before. For all of their vehicles, they took the window sticker and laminated it, along with an extra piece with the dealer add ons, all laminated together to look like one document. I guess they think this will make the add ons look more “official”.

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold), but they could have developed a process of laminating if from the outsider with that junk sticker. The regulars here know that Southeastern Toyota (and Gulf, too IIRC) has a "better" way, i.e. even more obnoxious. Since they control the distribution, they put the add-on stuff there, so the sticker really is official. I'm sure they share the profit with the dealers, or you'd hear them complaining about it to the media. The SET stickers can sometimes add as much as a grand of that valuable stuff. Then you of course have a "customary" fee, already crossed $1000 at those megadealers ($600 are now "low fee" dealers). So, the starting position is around two grand markup for a can of this, can of that, pimply teenagers spraying it (or not), some paperwork, sometimes first oil change.

That's why the kids in Florida want to come up here when they are going to buy their next new car.

fintail

Can't believe I forgot that. I think Corsair was the upper middle in 58, Ranger-Pacer-Corsair-Citation (all names re-used). 59 and 60 both lost names.

berri said:

Well Shifty, wasn't Corsair the premiere upscale Edsel?

Mr_Shiftright

In 1959 Corsair was the premier model, after Citation got dropped I think.
In any event, reminding anyone of either the Corvair or the Edsel could be tricky. Of course, you'd have to be in a fairly old demographic to have any kind of emotional reaction to those names.

graphicguy

henryn said:

graphicguy said:

karhill1 said:

Why would any knowledgeable car buyer allow a car sales person to engage them in a discussion which the sales person intends to use to eliminate and/or identify perceived "objections"?

The single most important component of a solid buying strategy is for the buyer to assume control of the process. An essential part of assuming control is control of the discussion.

Old school thinking. The old “I’ll control the sales process”. If control is what you want, roll into the showroom with a wad of Benjamins and yell to anyone who will listen “who wants to sell me a car?”.

You want to waste time? Keep trying to work towards controlling instead of getting the car you want at the deal you want.

I’ve said this time and again, if you walk into the dealership thinking you’re going to grind, you’ll lose.

1. You don’t know the price you’re going to pay before you walk in the door because you’re focused on grinding that last $50 instead of what you’ll be spending overall

2. What you save on the front end, you’ll give away on the back end.

For the last 15-20 years, I figure out what the car is worth and what it can be sold for. I add in my “pre-figured” tax, title and license fees. And, then present that number to the sales person/manager. They can either accept it or reject it. If they reject it, I move on. If they accept it, I just bought a car.

They get ONE NUMBER. I don’t care what their doc fee is. I don’t care what addies they may try to charge for. There’s no bumping for extraneous fees in F&I. The number is the number.

Negotions are easy. No stress. I’m happy with the deal (since I penciled it) and the dealer is happy with the deal (since they accepted it). It’s quick, too.

I work from a similar standpoint. I usually get my numbers off TrueCar, add 6.25% sales tax, and $300 for license plates, doc fees, etc. That is the number, take it or leave it, thank you very much.

The last new truck I bought actually wound up lower than TrueCar. The dealership had an online sales price which was several hundred lower than TrueCar. When I came in, they wanted to add about $1,000 for “dealer add ons” (wheel locks, door edge guards, etc). I politely declined, said, “I will pay your advertised price, plus 6.25%, plus $300. End of story.” After a few minutes of hedging around, they agreed, the deal was made.

They had done one thing which I had not seen before. For all of their vehicles, they took the window sticker and laminated it, along with an extra piece with the dealer add ons, all laminated together to look like one document. I guess they think this will make the add ons look more “official”.

That works for me. I'll usually look at TrueCar. Look at their online ads. Nose around their lot after hours to see what their stock situation is (that tells me if they have a little or a lot of what I'm looking at).

I don't care how they divy up my number either. Not so much any more, but I used to hear the dealers say that their "doc fee" was required by law. Every time I asked them which law they could point me to outlining that fee, they backed off.

I don't even argue with them any more. I make the one offer. That's it.

graphicguy

Lincoln Nautilus....makes me think of a wallowing vehicle. Not sure that's the marketing impression they were going for.

stickguy

No worse than Armada. I saw one today. The name fits.

henryn

dino001 said:

henryn said:

They had done one thing which I had not seen before. For all of their vehicles, they took the window sticker and laminated it, along with an extra piece with the dealer add ons, all laminated together to look like one document. I guess they think this will make the add ons look more “official”.

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold), but they could have developed a process of laminating if from the outsider with that junk sticker. The regulars here know that Southeastern Toyota (and Gulf, too IIRC) has a "better" way, i.e. even more obnoxious. Since they control the distribution, they put the add-on stuff there, so the sticker really is official. I'm sure they share the profit with the dealers, or you'd hear them complaining about it to the media.

I don't know about the law, but the window stickers had been removed, laminated (with the additions), and set back inside the vehicles. That was true on several vehicles I looked at, at that particular dealer.

ab348

venture said:

I liked right up to the time a girl t-boned it and totaled it.

What model/year Regal was it?

ab348

dino001 said:

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold)

Unfortunately we have no such laws up here. Some dealers don't mind the stickers and leave them on, but many have the lot attendants remove them. You will often see them on the back seat or rear floor. Sometimes you can still read them, sometimes not. Usually they are destroyed before delivery.

houdini2

My question is, who just walks in off the street and decides to buy a car on the spot? If I want/need a car, I know the car I want and how I want it equipped and a good idea of a fair price before I ever talk to a salesman. The only variable we have to nail down is the price. Fair price and I'm sold, whether I'm dealing with a super salesman or a newbe.

venture

ab348 said:

venture said:

I liked right up to the time a girl t-boned it and totaled it.

What model/year Regal was it?

It was a 2011 or 2012 (I forget) CXL Turbo. It was black with a black interior. I added that so you would cringe a little.

dino001

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold)

Unfortunately we have no such laws up here. Some dealers don't mind the stickers and leave them on, but many have the lot attendants remove them. You will often see them on the back seat or rear floor. Sometimes you can still read them, sometimes not. Usually they are destroyed before delivery.

The law is federal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

So the only way for them to do it is lawfully, if the sticker was generated at port/distribution center (when the vehicle is technically still in the possession of the manufacturer or his agent), or the lamination on the outside. Removal by anybody else than the owner is against the law. Kind of like that mattress sticker. If what you say is happening and they get removed before the customer signs papers, somebody should call the state AG.

dino001

houdini2 said:

My question is, who just walks in off the street and decides to buy a car on the spot? If I want/need a car, I know the car I want and how I want it equipped and a good idea of a fair price before I ever talk to a salesman. The only variable we have to nail down is the price. Fair price and I'm sold, whether I'm dealing with a super salesman or a newbe.

Lots of people don't really know what they want or need and they can be talked into buying stuff they didn't even think.

graphicguy

houdini2 said:

My question is, who just walks in off the street and decides to buy a car on the spot? If I want/need a car, I know the car I want and how I want it equipped and a good idea of a fair price before I ever talk to a salesman. The only variable we have to nail down is the price. Fair price and I'm sold, whether I'm dealing with a super salesman or a newbe.

Have you met @breld?

stickguy

the dealer always takes the sticker off. I have never had a car delivered with it still on the window. Though they always give it to me with the rest of the paperwork.

I have seem them taken off on demos, etc. But still in the car, and sometimes stuck back on the window. I think the dealer can also print out a replacement as needed.

houdini2

dino001 said:

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold)

Unfortunately we have no such laws up here. Some dealers don't mind the stickers and leave them on, but many have the lot attendants remove them. You will often see them on the back seat or rear floor. Sometimes you can still read them, sometimes not. Usually they are destroyed before delivery.

The law is federal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

So the only way for them to do it is lawfully, if the sticker was generated at port/distribution center (when the vehicle is technically still in the possession of the manufacturer or his agent), or the lamination on the outside. Removal by anybody else than the owner is against the law. Kind of like that mattress sticker. If what you say is happening and they get removed before the customer signs papers, somebody should call the state AG.

I don't think we have annexed Canada just yet.

snakeweasel

houdini2 said:

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold)

Unfortunately we have no such laws up here. Some dealers don't mind the stickers and leave them on, but many have the lot attendants remove them. You will often see them on the back seat or rear floor. Sometimes you can still read them, sometimes not. Usually they are destroyed before delivery.

The law is federal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker So the only way for them to do it is lawfully, if the sticker was generated at port/distribution center (when the vehicle is technically still in the possession of the manufacturer or his agent), or the lamination on the outside. Removal by anybody else than the owner is against the law. Kind of like that mattress sticker. If what you say is happening and they get removed before the customer signs papers, somebody should call the state AG.

I don't think we have annexed Canada just yet.

We could always resurrect General Hull.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Lincoln Nautilus....makes me think of a wallowing vehicle. Not sure that's the marketing impression they were going for.

Sounds too much like the Lincoln Nauseous.

dino001

stickguy said:

the dealer always takes the sticker off. I have never had a car delivered with it still on the window. Though they always give it to me with the rest of the paperwork.

I have seem them taken off on demos, etc. But still in the car, and sometimes stuck back on the window. I think the dealer can also print out a replacement as needed.

The'd take it off at the time of prep. At this point you presumably signed your papers, the car is your and they have your implied permission to take it off, as you obviously don't want to drive with it. They hand it to you, so by law "you" took it off and they were just your agent at that point. (you got your dealer's fee worth ).

Demo is different - most of the time it's a used car, already titled. Sometimes not, but then it's a bit tricky. There may be some exemptions for that, as it's covered by the manufacturer's. Never bought one, so I don't know. Not even sure how the original warranty works on an untitled demo with 5K miles on it. I don't think they can print replacements at the dealerships. The Monroney sticker law was aimed to prevent exactly that, as in the past dealers would do all kinds of shenanigans, making consumers think the MSRP was different.

dino001

houdini2 said:

dino001 said:

ab348 said:

dino001 said:

I'm sure they didn't take the sticker off the car (I think this would be illegal, stickers are supposed to be put in the distribution center/port and stay glued to the car until sold)

Unfortunately we have no such laws up here. Some dealers don't mind the stickers and leave them on, but many have the lot attendants remove them. You will often see them on the back seat or rear floor. Sometimes you can still read them, sometimes not. Usually they are destroyed before delivery.

The law is federal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

So the only way for them to do it is lawfully, if the sticker was generated at port/distribution center (when the vehicle is technically still in the possession of the manufacturer or his agent), or the lamination on the outside. Removal by anybody else than the owner is against the law. Kind of like that mattress sticker. If what you say is happening and they get removed before the customer signs papers, somebody should call the state AG.

I don't think we have annexed Canada just yet.

Oh, I forgot he's not from "here". Oh, well.

dino001

driver100 said:

graphicguy said:

Lincoln Nautilus....makes me think of a wallowing vehicle. Not sure that's the marketing impression they were going for.

Sounds too much like the Lincoln Nauseous.

Really? Never read Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea?

berri

IIRC, only issue with the nuclear USS Nautilus was that it was too noisy to Sonar. Nuclear sub sounds good for an adventurous lux SUV; Noisy maybe not so much. If the vehicle is good it will sell and also likely remembered better than MK... whatever.

explorerx4

@dino001,
Sometimes the snark here is pretty aggravating, but you just move on.

tjc78

So I was all primed to use WAZE with CarPlay! Downloaded IOS12, did all updates on the phone and gave it a shot in the Elantra.... FAIL!

The app isn’t recognized by the car. I’ll have to do some Google action to see what’s up. Hopefully, there is a software update for the car I can install.

dino001

explorerx4 said:

@dino001,
Sometimes the snark here is pretty aggravating, but you just move on.

I wasn’s snarky. It was an honest question. Or did you mean the nauseous?

stickguy

tjc78 said:

So I was all primed to use WAZE with CarPlay! Downloaded IOS12, did all updates on the phone and gave it a shot in the Elantra.... FAIL!

The app isn’t recognized by the car. I’ll have to do some Google action to see what’s up. Hopefully, there is a software update for the car I can install.

when you find out, let me know! Not that I care about waze. though at some point, if they do add Google maps, that I would want.

explorerx4

@dino001,
The Nautilus submarine is about an hour away from where I live, so I my comment was not a response to your post.

stickguy

nice to see names ago then.

ab348

venture said:

I liked right up to the time a girl t-boned it and totaled it.

What model/year Regal was it?

It was a 2011 or 2012 (I forget) CXL Turbo. It was black with a black interior. I added that so you would cringe a little.

Aside from the colours that is what I had (a 2011). I really liked the car but it had 2 problems that annoyed me. The transmission was slow to find a gear when you slowed down and then went to accelerate, and the center console was creaky when I leaned on it. But I loved the looks (mine was white over beige) and it was a fabulous highway car. 

ab348

dino001 said

If what you say is happening and they get removed before the customer signs papers, somebody should call the state AG.

I’m in Canada!

driver100

explorerx4 said:

@dino001,
Sometimes the snark here is pretty aggravating, but you just move on.

Picture of a Nautilus.


nautilus(Noun)
A marine mollusc, of the family Nautilidae native to the Pacific Ocean and Indian Ocean, which has tentacles and a spiral shell with a series of air-filled chambers.

Is that a good image for a car?

suydam

I really doubt that’s what pops into many peoples heads. I think submarine or Jules Verne.

jmonroe1

suydam said:

I really doubt that’s what pops into many peoples heads. I think submarine or Jules Verne.

I take it one step further and think Nuclear Navy.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

suydam said:

I really doubt that’s what pops into many peoples heads. I think submarine or Jules Verne.

I think this; 

suydam

But in the end if it’s a good car it won’t matter. Lots of cars have dumb names. What the hell is an Encore or an Enclave?!

tjc78

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:

So I was all primed to use WAZE with CarPlay! Downloaded IOS12, did all updates on the phone and gave it a shot in the Elantra.... FAIL!

The app isn’t recognized by the car. I’ll have to do some Google action to see what’s up. Hopefully, there is a software update for the car I can install.

when you find out, let me know! Not that I care about waze. though at some point, if they do add Google maps, that I would want.

From what I read, WAZE needs to issue an update. Google maps should be working now, I’ll try that one today.

venture

ab348 said:

venture said:

ab348 said:

venture said:

I liked right up to the time a girl t-boned it and totaled it.

What model/year Regal was it?

It was a 2011 or 2012 (I forget) CXL Turbo. It was black with a black interior. I added that so you would cringe a little.

Aside from the colours that is what I had (a 2011). I really liked the car but it had 2 problems that annoyed me. The transmission was slow to find a gear when you slowed down and then went to accelerate, and the center console was creaky when I leaned on it. But I loved the looks (mine was white over beige) and it was a fabulous highway car. 

I had forgotten about the not being able to find a gear thing. I remember almost being broadsided by a truck when it was trying to decide what gear to be in. That was right after I got it. I learned to be a little more cautious after that.

I thought it was a nice looking car too. I wasn't quite ready to send it on it's way when the girl got me.

qbrozen

suydam said:

But in the end if it’s a good car it won’t matter. Lots of cars have dumb names. What the hell is an Encore or an Enclave?!

Well, encore is an extra entertaining bit that may happen spontaneoulsy after the real show is over. To me, as for a car name, I think "afterthought." So the Buick baby suv is merely an afterthought.

An enclave is kind of synonymous with sanctuary; an individualized space separated from the crowd. So that actually makes sense.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

tjc78 said:

So I was all primed to use WAZE with CarPlay! Downloaded IOS12, did all updates on the phone and gave it a shot in the Elantra.... FAIL!

The app isn’t recognized by the car. I’ll have to do some Google action to see what’s up. Hopefully, there is a software update for the car I can install.

when you find out, let me know! Not that I care about waze. though at some point, if they do add Google maps, that I would want.

Hmmm....Waze is working with my iPhone X running iSO 12 in my TLX. Tried Google Maps yesterday. It’s working fine, too. But, I had to upgrade to do an upgrade of Google Maps.

While the graphics of both Waze and Google Maps is no better (or worse) than Apple Maps, Waze does show construction, police speed traps, speed limit, etc data on my Acura’s screen. Acura’s NAV maps look better, but their voice command leaves a lot to be desired vs Apple Maps.

So far, so good!

stickguy

I’ve actually been fine using apple maps thru CarPlay. I’m just used to google maps!

Mostly just happy to have free Navi. Can’t stand in the Acura not having any Navi at all.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

My question is, who just walks in off the street and decides to buy a car on the spot? If I want/need a car, I know the car I want and how I want it equipped and a good idea of a fair price before I ever talk to a salesman. The only variable we have to nail down is the price. Fair price and I'm sold, whether I'm dealing with a super salesman or a newbe.

Have you met @breld?

Have you met Mike? 

abacomike

graphicguy said:

Why would any knowledgeable car buyer allow a car sales person to engage them in a discussion which the sales person intends to use to eliminate and/or identify perceived "objections"? The single most important component of a solid buying strategy is for the buyer to assume control of the process. An essential part of assuming control is control of the discussion.

Old school thinking. The old “I’ll control the sales process”. If control is what you want, roll into the showroom with a wad of Benjamins and yell to anyone who will listen “who wants to sell me a car?”. You want to waste time? Keep trying to work towards controlling instead of getting the car you want at the deal you want. I’ve said this time and again, if you walk into the dealership thinking you’re going to grind, you’ll lose. 1. You don’t know the price you’re going to pay before you walk in the door because you’re focused on grinding that last $50 instead of what you’ll be spending overall 2. What you save on the front end, you’ll give away on the back end. For the last 15-20 years, I figure out what the car is worth and what it can be sold for. I add in my “pre-figured” tax, title and license fees. And, then present that number to the sales person/manager. They can either accept it or reject it. If they reject it, I move on. If they accept it, I just bought a car. They get ONE NUMBER. I don’t care what their doc fee is. I don’t care what addies they may try to charge for. There’s no bumping for extraneous fees in F&I. The number is the number. Negotions are easy. No stress. I’m happy with the deal (since I penciled it) and the dealer is happy with the deal (since they accepted it). It’s quick, too.

I work from a similar standpoint. I usually get my numbers off TrueCar, add 6.25% sales tax, and $300 for license plates, doc fees, etc. That is the number, take it or leave it, thank you very much. The last new truck I bought actually wound up lower than TrueCar. The dealership had an online sales price which was several hundred lower than TrueCar. When I came in, they wanted to add about $1,000 for “dealer add ons” (wheel locks, door edge guards, etc). I politely declined, said, “I will pay your advertised price, plus 6.25%, plus $300. End of story.” After a few minutes of hedging around, they agreed, the deal was made. They had done one thing which I had not seen before. For all of their vehicles, they took the window sticker and laminated it, along with an extra piece with the dealer add ons, all laminated together to look like one document. I guess they think this will make the add ons look more “official”.

That works for me. I'll usually look at TrueCar. Look at their online ads. Nose around their lot after hours to see what their stock situation is (that tells me if they have a little or a lot of what I'm looking at). I don't care how they divy up my number either. Not so much any more, but I used to hear the dealers say that their "doc fee" was required by law. Every time I asked them which law they could point me to outlining that fee, they backed off. I don't even argue with them any more. I make the one offer. That's it.

The “law” is stated: “If you charge a dealer fee, it must be pre-printed on all buyer’s orders and bills of sales and charged to ALL buyers.”  There are no State laws that require dealer fees.

The way a dealer can bypass that fee is to lower the selling price by the amount of the fee.

abacomike

Guys, the only reason I presented the “overcoming buyer’s objections” is to educate you as to how salesmen are trained.  This way, you enter the new car showroom well prepared for the “modus operandi” of the well-trained salesman.

The question was asked: “How quickly or early on can you tell if a customer is truly a buyer or just a tire kicker?”  If the salesman follows his training model, I would presume he will know who is a buyer or not when there is more than one objection, other than price, that cannot be overcome.

All I was doing was to present to you what to look out for when working with a well-trained professional salesman.  Hope it was informative. 

venture

abacomike said:

graphicguy said:

Why would any knowledgeable car buyer allow a car sales person to engage them in a discussion which the sales person intends to use to eliminate and/or identify perceived "objections"?

The single most important component of a solid buying strategy is for the buyer to assume control of the process. An essential part of assuming control is control of the discussion.

Old school thinking. The old “I’ll control the sales process”. If control is what you want, roll into the showroom with a wad of Benjamins and yell to anyone who will listen “who wants to sell me a car?”.

You want to waste time? Keep trying to work towards controlling instead of getting the car you want at the deal you want.

I’ve said this time and again, if you walk into the dealership thinking you’re going to grind, you’ll lose.

1. You don’t know the price you’re going to pay before you walk in the door because you’re focused on grinding that last $50 instead of what you’ll be spending overall

2. What you save on the front end, you’ll give away on the back end.

For the last 15-20 years, I figure out what the car is worth and what it can be sold for. I add in my “pre-figured” tax, title and license fees. And, then present that number to the sales person/manager. They can either accept it or reject it. If they reject it, I move on. If they accept it, I just bought a car.

They get ONE NUMBER. I don’t care what their doc fee is. I don’t care what addies they may try to charge for. There’s no bumping for extraneous fees in F&I. The number is the number.

Negotions are easy. No stress. I’m happy with the deal (since I penciled it) and the dealer is happy with the deal (since they accepted it). It’s quick, too.

I work from a similar standpoint. I usually get my numbers off TrueCar, add 6.25% sales tax, and $300 for license plates, doc fees, etc. That is the number, take it or leave it, thank you very much.

The last new truck I bought actually wound up lower than TrueCar. The dealership had an online sales price which was several hundred lower than TrueCar. When I came in, they wanted to add about $1,000 for “dealer add ons” (wheel locks, door edge guards, etc). I politely declined, said, “I will pay your advertised price, plus 6.25%, plus $300. End of story.” After a few minutes of hedging around, they agreed, the deal was made.

They had done one thing which I had not seen before. For all of their vehicles, they took the window sticker and laminated it, along with an extra piece with the dealer add ons, all laminated together to look like one document. I guess they think this will make the add ons look more “official”.


That works for me. I'll usually look at TrueCar. Look at their online ads. Nose around their lot after hours to see what their stock situation is (that tells me if they have a little or a lot of what I'm looking at).

I don't care how they divy up my number either. Not so much any more, but I used to hear the dealers say that their "doc fee" was required by law. Every time I asked them which law they could point me to outlining that fee, they backed off.

I don't even argue with them any more. I make the one offer. That's it.

The “law” is stated: “If you charge a dealer fee, it must be pre-printed on all buyer’s orders and bills of sales and charged to ALL buyers.”  There are no State laws that require dealer fees.

The way a dealer can bypass that fee is to lower the selling price by the amount of the fee.

Not to be argumentative, but I have never been able to find a law that says that. I understand the dealers are protecting themselves from being labeled as discriminatory if they don't charge everyone since, evidently, there have been lawsuits about it.

ab348

suydam said:

But in the end if it’s a good car it won’t matter. Lots of cars have dumb names. What the hell is an Encore or an Enclave?!

Neither are marine slugs though.

ab348

venture said:

I had forgotten about the not being able to find a gear thing. I remember almost being broadsided by a truck when it was trying to decide what gear to be in. That was right after I got it. I learned to be a little more cautious after that.

I thought it was a nice looking car too. I wasn't quite ready to send it on it's way when the girl got me.

The Turbo model in those years used a Japanese Aisin transmission for some reason, not a THM like the others. Perhaps the programming for the computer lost something in translation.

Here's a pic of mine:

dino001

abacomike said:

The “law” is stated: “If you charge a dealer fee, it must be pre-printed on all buyer’s orders and bills of sales and charged to ALL buyers.”  There are no State laws that require dealer fees.

The way a dealer can bypass that fee is to lower the selling price by the amount of the fee.

Of course, Mike. It's good to know the fee value before, so you can prepare yourself to lower the "price" accordingly, if you're talking in that particular format.

My beef is mostly with the truth in advertising, not whether price is too high, too low, or if they "deserve" their "money for nothing" fee. You open newspaper with a screaming "starting at", "you pay", or whatever and you have to make all that math. I think it crossed the line where it's no longer just a "format", it's a clear lie. Screaming "you pay", then you need to add $3000 in trade (you still pay it, just in a different form, i.e. barter), $1000 in fee, sometimes another $1000 in manufacturer's destination, as it was excluded from "you pay" shout, THEN of course add all the taxes and registration. At some point it becomes ridiculous and completely useless.

Airlines used to do that, too (Fly New York from $59, one way fare based on round trip, taxes, fees not included), but they were finally prohibited. Today they have to advertise OTD price, they might be allowed break it into one-way I believe, but that's it. It's time similar laws are passed for the car industry, as it clearly has no interest in clearing itself from all that BS, if anything it keeps ratcheting it up. It may be a bit harder, but I still think they can manage - it's not that hard to add all the fees and even state government taxes and registration fees, based on a common scenario prescribed by the legislator, e.g. taxes, title and 1 year registration at jurisdiction specific to the dealer with disclaimer that people outside of the county may pay more or less. Same thing can be done with lease or loan payments - clearly stated jurisdiction, interest rate, down payment and other assumptions. But wait... people would be shocked cars are so expensive. People can't know how much they are actually paying. They'd stay home and the economy would collapse. We can't have that - deception is the only way to keep the economy rolling.

bwia

So does that make Google CarPlay and Android Auto obsolete?

DETROIT (AP) — "The Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance, one of the world’s top-selling automakers, has decided to go with Google’s Android operating system to run its dashboard information and entertainment features.
The change, which won’t roll out until 2021, means that users will get Android features such as Google Maps, Waze and the hands-free Google Assistant, without having to connect a phone. They’ll also be able to download auto-specific apps, such as those that find and pay for parking spaces, from the Google Play Store."

Read full article at https://www.boston.com/cars/car-news/2018/09/20/renault-nissan-mitsubishi-to-use-android-system-in-its-dashboards?s_campaign=bg:hp:well:cars

stickguy

Can’t read article now, but I assume this will require paying for a data subscription for that access.