Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

dino001

abacomike said:

Car salespeople are in a different class of salesmen than 10-20 years ago.  They are trained to listen to the customer, determine the features the customer desires, identify objections to buying and are trained how to overcome those objections in a mild-mannered approach.  They are more client oriented than they used to be.  But there are still thousands of old school salesmen still out there trying to make a sale no matter what the customer says.

Modern day dealerships spend a large amount of dollars investing in training of their salespeople.  One large conglomerate of auto sales down here have their own “school” where they employ trainers and technology along with classroom accommodations at their headquarters.

I used to attend conferences in Houston, Chicago, Dallas and Phoenix designed specifically to train trainers.  I attended several each year.

This sounds great, Mike. So far I see this attitude at premium brand and small dealeships, but the guys from local megadealer might talk the talk on CNBC (Autonation), but on the floor an old sweaty sleezeball is still often in charge. Since we see more and more consolidation, it’s proliferating, not receeding. What I see gone, is plain cheating (like paperwork switches, or other shenanigans), but the hardball hugh pressure tactics are still very muche present. Now, how do we rid of all those old school places and people?

stickguy

and plenty of places still churn and burn sales people, so odds of getting handed to a green pea are pretty high. and very transient.

abacomike

dino001 said:

Car salespeople are in a different class of salesmen than 10-20 years ago.  They are trained to listen to the customer, determine the features the customer desires, identify objections to buying and are trained how to overcome those objections in a mild-mannered approach.  They are more client oriented than they used to be.  But there are still thousands of old school salesmen still out there trying to make a sale no matter what the customer says.

Modern day dealerships spend a large amount of dollars investing in training of their salespeople.  One large conglomerate of auto sales down here have their own “school” where they employ trainers and technology along with classroom accommodations at their headquarters.

I used to attend conferences in Houston, Chicago, Dallas and Phoenix designed specifically to train trainers.  I attended several each year.

This sounds great, Mike. So far I see this attitude at premium brand and small dealeships, but the guys from local megadealer might talk the talk on CNBC (Autonation), but on the floor an old sweaty sleezeball is still often in charge. Since we see more and more consolidation, it’s proliferating, not receeding. What I see gone, is plain cheating (like paperwork switches, or other shenanigans), but the hardball hugh pressure tactics are still very muche present. Now, how do we rid of all those old school places and people?

Time heals all, Dino.  Thank goodness for mortality - eventually they will die off! 

dino001

Unkess they teach the newbies first.

snakeweasel

Got behind a manual Fiat today going out to dinner tonight. Some people need to stay away from the stick shift. At every light this car lurched as s/he tried to take off. One time it looked like like a bucking bronco and apparently stalled. 

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

dino001

snakeweasel said:

Got behind a manual Fiat today going out to dinner tonight. Some people need to stay away from the stick shift. At every light this car lurched as s/he tried to take off. One time it looked like like a bucking bronco and apparently stalled. 

My dad called that driving style “frog”.

qbrozen

Hmmm... wish I could find the commercial I saw because I swear it looked better, although this is still OK.

https://youtu.be/shXpslZ4EVs

tjc78

driver100 said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

IMO if your going to get a Camry or Avalon do so in black.  It takes the front end down considerably.   Toyota needs to do something with the front of just about everything... it can’t get much worse.  

stickguy

I walk past a house most days that has a new Camry. I believe it is an XLE. It's a super dark blue (looks almost black in dull light) that really pops in sunlight. Makes the rear look vastly better. The LE models are also tamer to start with than SE models. I only see it from the side and rear, but that model, in that color, is very attractive.

I can't speak to the nose on that particular car of course!

I do like the Corolla hatch though. Is that basically still the Mazda 2?

driver100

How can I like this?

after being raised admiring this?

driver100

Black helps the front end look better, but, you lose the contrasting pana roof affect for the rest of the car.

berri

Camry - I'm melting...

venture

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

Is it just me or does the 2019 Lexus UX look very ugly?

Oh My!!!!!!!!

graphicguy

roadburner said:

28firefighter said:

Am I the only one who is feeling withdrawal from the Sentra saga? I don't want to know, but I can't help it!

It's just so bizarre that I can't help but follow it...

Did you really think that deal was going to actually happen? I think you nailed it when you mentioned his wife would stop the purchase dead in its tracks. Besides, what would Dave RAmsey say if the deal actually happened?

graphicguy

Grill doesn’t look bad on the new ES350....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-lexus-es-our-first-in-person-impressions-2019-es-photos/

stickguy

if you say so.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Grill doesn’t look bad on the new ES350....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-lexus-es-our-first-in-person-impressions-2019-es-photos/

A lot depends on color and the angle....and some grills have a different weirder pattern:


And, it always looks worse with a white car.

driver100

venture said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

I think those are louvres for the air to flow through......not sure if real or fake.
They do look a bit like those old anti-electrostatic ribbons people dangled from the rear bumper.

Drivingfool

I've driven quite a few of the new Camry's at work and love 'em, like it better than the new Accord which is a great vehicle also. It's really a toss up but think I'd get the Camry if needed that size vehicle. But we've both gone down to the compact size so there's a lot to choose from. Just wish all the new features were available in that size as some of the better ones still haven't trickled down yet. A shame really as folks who buy compacts want all the good stuff also, especially the safety stuff!

The Driving Fool

roadburner

The Camry's best feature is its interior, because when you are seated in it you can't see the exterior.

jmonroe1

graphicguy said:

Grill doesn’t look bad on the new ES350....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-lexus-es-our-first-in-person-impressions-2019-es-photos/

Your right it doesn't look bad...it looks TERRIBLE. But we'd expect that from a guy who liked the "beak" on the Acura.

To be honest, I didn't think the "beak" was so bad. The Lexus, well, we part ways on it.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

I think those are louvres for the air to flow through......not sure if real or fake.
They do look a bit like those old anti-electrostatic ribbons people dangled from the rear bumper.

I don't think they are louvers. Louvers are for cooling and nothing back there needs cooling.

Bad guess. :@

jmonroe

fintail

I am surprised Lexus is still running with the Nike lights theme, but maybe their target market isn't the offended sensitive souls.

fintail

The jutting out headlights of the 57 Ford have always been a little off-putting to me, but not as bad as the Toyolex gaping maw. Those wire wheels though, not for me.

driver100 said:

How can I like this?
after being raised admiring this?

abacomike

Well, I made it to September 22, 2018 - two years to the day after my liver cancer surgery. I guess that qualifies as a "Cancer Survivor" in medical circles. I owe everything to my Primary Care Physician who, because of his diligence in screening me for liver problems due to my Hepatitis C viral infection, discovered a lesion in my liver after a routine 6 month ultrasound. After many tests and a biopsy, I was referred to the liver transplant team at Broward Medical Center and underwent a liver resection which ended up removing 3 malignant tumors. Those doctors and nurses are also the reason I am still alive.

My doctor continues to test for liver cancer with ultrasounds twice a year and a PET Scan once a year because this type of aggressive liver cancer has a tendency to re-establish itself in the liver. In other words, once you've had it, there's a good chance it can return. Thank God the Hepatitis C is no longer rampant in my body thanks to that new anti viral med, Epclusa.

I will admit that I have not really felt well since that liver resection. I have become overly tired, sluggish, and insomnia has become a big problem, even with strong sleeping pills. But at least I am alive and can watch my grandchildren grow up and become strong men and one of them a great athlete. Can't wait to see what they eventually become of themselves.

Now, back to cars!

The Camry and Avalon are quite good looking vehicles. I agree that the grille is a bit over the top in terms of design, as are most of the Lexus vehicles, but the most important aspects of a car are how it drives/handles, comfort, interior ergonomics, and safety features/technology.

I definitely would consider a Lexus ES350 or even a Camry or Avalon for my next car as I am definitely moving toward more economical purchases - no more Mercedes Benz or BMW - I've been there and done that. Now is the time for a nice car for basic transportation purposes only. So, over the next 2 years (until my lease is up), I will be looking at everything out there for my next car.

Here's hoping that I make it to 3 years cancer free!

stickguy

you are a fighter Mike. gotta give you that. so just keep on taking it one day at a time.

abacomike

stickguy said:

you are a fighter Mike. gotta give you that. so just keep on taking it one day at a time.

Thanks stick - I work on fighting every day of my life!

suydam

Congratulations on your 2 year anniversary, @abacomike ! I consider my transplant date as my new birthday, my second chance at life, and I celebrate each one. I also light a candle for my donor, as my life was made possible by someone else’s tragedy. I thank his family for their incredible generosity made at a difficult time.
Have you asked your doctor if your symptoms are typical for liver transplant recipients? Maybe joining a gym would provide some greater strength and endurance, in addition to the walking you do? Is it an effect of the meds you have to take for other conditions? It would be nice if you could feel a little more peppy!

tjc78

Congrats @abacomike !!! This October I’m at 10 years, it’s a good feeling to beat the big “C”.

Celebrate and trade in the S Class

tjc78

I just helped my SIL pick up a 2016 Yaris Hatchback. She had been limping along her 2000ish Corrolla and it finally gave up the ghost (Head gasket, two bad tires, front and rear brakes). Car had nearly 200K. Her neighbor gave $450 for it and is going to work on it himself and flip it. Good luck.

She had a little money saved but not enough for anything decent. My wife and I helped her form a budget for $300 / month with insurance.

She is only 22 and has a 600 credit score. So... high interest rate but we got it done. Car was an ex rental (I know) in decent shape for 9,000. Her first new car and she managed to get approved all on her own. With a limited budget she didn’t have many choices.

Price appeared fair (maybe a touch high but was a no-haggle place) and the dealer was straight up with nothing hidden. She hopes to knock out the loan in two years paying a little extra and dumping a good chunk of her income tax refund on it.

She wanted to buy out my Elantra’s lease but when I looked it up the buyout was $15,600 and that was not only too high for the car, but also out of her price range. Kind of a shame, because that would have meant new car shopping for me!! No doubt the Elantra is going to be around the whole lease. Hopelessly buried in that thing.

abacomike

suydam said:

Congratulations on your 2 year anniversary, @abacomike ! I consider my transplant date as my new birthday, my second chance at life, and I celebrate each one. I also light a candle for my donor, as my life was made possible by someone else’s tragedy. I thank his family for their incredible generosity made at a difficult time. Have you asked your doctor if your symptoms are typical for liver transplant recipients? Maybe joining a gym would provide some greater strength and endurance, in addition to the walking you do? Is it an effect of the meds you have to take for other conditions? It would be nice if you could feel a little more peppy!

Suydam, I did not have a liver transplant - the tumors were too large so I did not qualify.  They did a resection of my liver - excised part of my liver where the malignant tumors were encapsulated.  It was my right lobe that was compromised.

Congrats on continuing to be a transplant survivor.  Thank God for modern medicine!

jmonroe1

@Mike, we're very happy to hear the good news about your health but who do you think you're fooling about the car stuff? Do you really think we're a bunch of green peas?

jmonroe

berri

Stay tough guys!
My problem with the new Camry is that it went the Avalon route with a low platform to get in and out and a low headroom environment. But that really is a matter of an individual's physical and personal preferences. A maintained Camry will go many, many years without a ton of problems or maintenance requirements. The step up to an ES seems to be mostly a matter of a bit nicer interior and a quieter environment, but the Camry isn't a slouch here either. However, I still the think the Camry and ES are, shall we just say, not likely to be considered classic styling a decade or so out.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

I think those are louvres for the air to flow through......not sure if real or fake.
They do look a bit like those old anti-electrostatic ribbons people dangled from the rear bumper.

I don't think they are louvers. Louvers are for cooling and nothing back there needs cooling.

Bad guess. :@

jmonroe

Your just as argumentative as the original jmonroe. He not only drives a wannabe car....now, he has a wannabe impersonator.

The louvers aren't to cool anything at the back, they are to dissipate ( n dissipation of heat. Type of: chilling, cooling, temperature reduction. the process of becoming cooler; a falling temperature.) the heat created when braking...leaving an escape for the hot air.(so to speak)

driver100

Congratulations Mike. And all you guys who have overcome cancer and other ailments........amazing how many people, even in our little group, have been affected.

driver100

Fin, I always liked the covered lights on the 57 Ford.

The wire wheels are not attractive....I used the picture because it was a convertible and the red and white hilighted the tu-tone paint jobs of the day.

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

Guys, the only reason I presented the “overcoming buyer’s objections” is to educate you as to how salesmen are trained.  This way, you enter the new car showroom well prepared for the “modus operandi” of the well-trained salesman.

The question was asked: “How quickly or early on can you tell if a customer is truly a buyer or just a tire kicker?”  If the salesman follows his training model, I would presume he will know who is a buyer or not when there is more than one objection, other than price, that cannot be overcome.

All I was doing was to present to you what to look out for when working with a well-trained professional salesman.  Hope it was informative. 

When I last bought a new car I told the saleman that I wasn't buying that day as I was just curious about the new model. He offered a test drive just for fun which I appricated. Might have been a sales technique but it made me glad he didn't try to "sell" me.

When I came back months later ready to buy I asked for him specifically. I offered a final price which I had researched and thought fair. He balked on the price for the trade so I walked. Hecalled later and accepted the deal.

How much of that was show I don't know but I'd drive past my neighborhood dealer to give this one my business.

I wonder if salespeople are less likely to play games with us "mature" buyers.

LOL, "mature" guys can be dumb as rocks too. I think it depends on the salesperson's perception of how intelligent you are regardless of age.

houdini2

cdnpinhead said:

The carp nose has been taken to its limit . . . or perhaps not.

That's what I thought a couple of years ago, but.......

berri

Don't know that I ever saw wire wheels on a 57 Ford back while I was growing up.

As for jmonroe, he is jmonroe#1 now, so let's hope the championship win didn't go to his head

abacomike

jmonroe1 said:

@Mike, we're very happy to hear the good news about your health but who do you think you're fooling about the car stuff? Do you really think we're a bunch of green peas? jmonroe

Absolutely not!  You guys all know me quite well.  But, THIS IS THE NEW MIKE!  The abacomike who used to buy a new car whenever the floor carpets got dirty is no longer here.  He has been replaced by ECONOMICAL MIKE who discovered that a car does not have to be replaced before it hits 10,000 on the odometer.

I “GOT RELIGION”, jmonroe - pure and simple.  My next car two years from now will be for basic transportation.

I’m even going to join a “Compulsive Car Buyer’s” support group.  It meets every Wednesday evening at a different New Car Dealership - they even serve refreshments.  It’s a 13 step program - same 12 steps as Alcoholics Anonymous, but with one additional step called, “...if you get to this step, you may now buy a new car...!”  I can’t wait for the first meeting - it’s being held at a Mazzeratti Dealership.  They are serving lasagna with gelato for desert.

VIVA ITALIANO!    

houdini2

driver100 said:

Fin, I always liked the covered lights on the 57 Ford.

The wire wheels are not attractive....I used the picture because it was a convertible and the red and white hilighted the tu-tone paint jobs of the day.

I never noticed those bug eyes before, but now I am also offput or offputted?

berri

Better be careful with that program Mike - you may end up buying a "used" car to go with your newfound thriftiness

ab348

stickguy said:

if you say so.

It looks like the gaping maw of the planet-eating doomsday device in the original Star Trek.

ab348

driver100 said:

venture said:

driver100 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

qbrozen said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

I think those are louvres for the air to flow through......not sure if real or fake.
They do look a bit like those old anti-electrostatic ribbons people dangled from the rear bumper.

I always think they are rubber taillight gaskets that fell out.

Reading that link GG provided on the new ES350, it is lower than the outgoing model by a fair amount. Can't see that being a winning strategy for the senior citizens who seem to be their main market.

snakeweasel

venture said:

Saw a commercial today for a car. I thought "that's not bad looking." Then saw a Toyota badge and thought "nah. I gotta see it again. Must be ugly." As I saw more of the commercial, I decided it is likely the best looking Toyota car in their current lineup. Anybody wanna venture a guess?

2018 Supra?

Corolla.....and the new Camry can look pretty good - if you don't see the front.

I saw one just like that yesterday. I couldn't stop looking at the black things hanging down from both tail lights.

Yes it looks like it's mascara is running.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

Well, I made it to September 22, 2018 - two years to the day after my liver cancer surgery. I guess that qualifies as a "Cancer Survivor" in medical circles. I owe everything to my Primary Care Physician who, because of his diligence in screening me for liver problems due to my Hepatitis C viral infection, discovered a lesion in my liver after a routine 6 month ultrasound. After many tests and a biopsy, I was referred to the liver transplant team at Broward Medical Center and underwent a liver resection which ended up removing 3 malignant tumors. Those doctors and nurses are also the reason I am still alive. My doctor continues to test for liver cancer with ultrasounds twice a year and a PET Scan once a year because this type of aggressive liver cancer has a tendency to re-establish itself in the liver. In other words, once you've had it, there's a good chance it can return. Thank God the Hepatitis C is no longer rampant in my body thanks to that new anti viral med, Epclusa. I will admit that I have not really felt well since that liver resection. I have become overly tired, sluggish, and insomnia has become a big problem, even with strong sleeping pills. But at least I am alive and can watch my grandchildren grow up and become strong men and one of them a great athlete. Can't wait to see what they eventually become of themselves. Now, back to cars! The Camry and Avalon are quite good looking vehicles. I agree that the grille is a bit over the top in terms of design, as are most of the Lexus vehicles, but the most important aspects of a car are how it drives/handles, comfort, interior ergonomics, and safety features/technology. I definitely would consider a Lexus ES350 or even a Camry or Avalon for my next car as I am definitely moving toward more economical purchases - no more Mercedes Benz or BMW - I've been there and done that. Now is the time for a nice car for basic transportation purposes only. So, over the next 2 years (until my lease is up), I will be looking at everything out there for my next car. Here's hoping that I make it to 3 years cancer free!

Mike, keep the faith we are all pulling for you and have you in our prayers.

snakeweasel

took the bike to the dealer to get an oil change (man those are expensive) and a few minor things tuned up. As I was in the show room we watched the police pull people over across the street wholesale. I was there for an hour and a half and there was at least one person pulled over most of the time.

I left going the opposite way.