Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

ronsteve

bwia said:

Hey guys, Sirius/xm is having a flash sale.

I just got this amazing offer of $4.99 a month for 12 months. One small caveat though, a credit card is required for this purchase.This offer is so enticing I might re-sign after a one year hiatus. 

It really doesn't pay to keep your service anymore! Whether it's phone, cable/satellite/internet (especially!) or satellite radio, loyal customers get the privilege of subsidizing these deals for newbies!

driver100

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

Can’t say I care much for the strange paint job.

What happened to the Stinger?

I found the size of the blackout camo they had to use on the grille emblem amusing. Do ya think maybe it's a bit too big, Acura?

Those are some serious boy-racer exhaust pipes. And some of the most rubber-band-like tires I have seen in a while on a sedan. Makes me wonder how practical it would be for regular use.

The basic design looks about the same as the current model. Are those exhaust pipes silver tipped? Most makes now cover them up or have them neatly inset....almost think they haven't finished that part of the design. The grill badge could be huge, but why cover it up....like we don't know that is an Acura?

xwesx

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

Man, that is one homely looking car. I think they missed the memo that auto bras went out of style in the 1990s.

xwesx

henryn said:

https://moderntiredealer.com/article/726284/tpms-volkswagen-passat-2012-2017

The tire pressure monitoring system (TPMS) in the 2012-2017 Volkswagen Passat is the indirect type, and is included in the software of the anti-lock braking system (ABS) control module.

The system will recognize a slow and gradual decrease in tire pressure on a wheel. The diagnostic trouble code (DTC) memory faults for tire pressure monitoring are stored in the ABS control module. With the help of the ABS speed sensor, the TPMS compares the speed and rolling circumference of the individual wheels. There are no sensors installed in the vehicle’s tires.

Rolling circumference of a tire may change due to:

Insufficient tire pressure.
Structural damage on tires.
The vehicle is loaded heavily on one side.
One axle is heavily loaded (i.e., when pulling a trailer).
When snow chains are used.
When a spare tire is installed.
One wheel is replaced.

The system definitely has drawbacks, such as no individual pressure readings, temperature, etc. Since most vehicles don't display that stuff anyway, that part isn't much of an issue. The benefit? The driver has a lot of control over the system, so if the warning pops due to a use situation (heavy load, spare, chains, etc), it takes only a moment to store the new parameters in the system for that duration.

However, I have used mine in most of those scenarios (heavy load, chains, uneven loads), and the system is durable enough to not offer false positives.

henryn

I think the biggest advantage here is that you don't have to buy a second complete set of TPMS senders if you buy a second set of wheels and tires for winter use.

But my new F150 does give me the tire pressure readings for all 4 wheels, and I rather like that. Not sure about @abacomike and his Mercedes showing the temperatures. Might be useful, but I wouldn't pay $100k for a car just to get that feature.

explorerx4

@bwia,
That is basically the deal I signed up for. One fairly recent change is that renewals are billed monthly, so you don't get charged the whole 6 months or a year immediately.

abacomike

pensfan83 said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for.... https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

cdnpinhead

henryn said:

I think the biggest advantage here is that you don't have to buy a second complete set of TPMS senders if you buy a second set of wheels and tires for winter use.

Good point. The stock wheels and TPMSs I took off yesterday have been in service for 10.5 years, so figured I needed to bite the bullet on the winter tire/wheels. When I put the stocks back on in the Spring I'll go ahead and put new sensors on then.

[Deleted User]

oldfarmer50 said:

Oh you naughty Tesla drivers.

https://bgr.com/2018/12/03/tesla-autopilot-drunk-driver-fell-asleep-arrested/

LOL. I've been waiting for something like that to happen. It was a matter of time and human nature.

[Deleted User]

This is a huge statement from VW:

https://yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-next-generation-combustion-engine-cars-last-201413027.html

Essentially they'll be wrapping up their ICE R&D very soon and transitioning to other technologies. I didn't think a major manufacturer like VW would move so fast.

graphicguy

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

So, this time next year the S-Type should hit the dealers. However, last time Acura did that was 2008. The big redesign of the TL (the “beak” period) was right around the corner and better in every way to the previous S-Type.

So, the question for me, the refresh of the TLX happened in 2018. If the S-Type hits as a 2020 model, I am expecting the 2021 TLX to be the total redesign (3 years after the refresh).

Anyway, excited to see what the upcoming S-Type will be.

explorerx4

Bwhaha!
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/tesla-model-100d-sun-moonroof/6760758758.html

stickguy

must be fun with the Hemi option.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

Bwhaha!
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/d/tesla-model-100d-sun-moonroof/6760758758.html

I don't get it.

stickguy

look at the features. an 8 cylinder gas engine.

xwesx

stickguy said:

look at the features. an 8 cylinder gas engine.

Oh, yes. Hahaha I thought at first, "Okay, well, other than being an absolutely terrible ad for asking $78,000, what's so funny here?"

Mr_Shiftright

Well that's still 22 years away before the final curtain. Lots of things can change before then.

I think the ICE is like the ol' B-52 bomber. It's going to be around a lot longer than people think.

driver100

stickguy said:

look at the features. an 8 cylinder gas engine.

What's next a Tesla, with.............a manual transmission!

Mr_Shiftright

I actually drove a prototype EV with a manual transmission, and I quite enjoyed it. It had limited range, as most EVs did some ten years ago, but I found it fun to drive.

I'd seriously consider a "shiftable" EV of some sort. Engineers might deem it unnecessary, though.

qbrozen

Didn't the first Insight come with a manual option? Granted, not an EV.

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

It always seemed a shame to return a lease without utilizing the full mileage allowance. That must happen quite often but I think I’d spend my last day driving in circles around the dealer until I rolled the last tenth mile as I pulled into the lot.

oldfarmer50

tyguy said:

This is a huge statement from VW:

https://yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-next-generation-combustion-engine-cars-last-201413027.html

Essentially they'll be wrapping up their ICE R&D very soon and transitioning to other technologies. I didn't think a major manufacturer like VW would move so fast.

Europe is going big time into carbon taxes which may shrink the gap in operating costs between EV and ICE enough to balance out the initial cost difference. Charging infrastructure will be the key to VW’s success.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

look at the features. an 8 cylinder gas engine.

Makes you wonder if CL has a selection list for EVs. The seller may have had to select 8 cyl. and gas from a limited menu in order to post.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

I can't imagine why a knowledgeable mechanic would say that Nissans are junk. Very few mainstream cars built today are junk.

"Junk" is a vague and relative word that can mean different things to different people. What someone might consider junk today might have been considered top of the line 50 years ago. It's pretty much a judgment call but almost any car today will hold up for some time and deliver decent service for many years.

snakeweasel

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I’m not a fan of the Pirellis that came on the Ford (P Zero). After only 10k miles they developed a pronounced whine which is really irritating.

Aside from some of the old Cinturatos you would see on Euro imports, Pirelli always seemed a bit of a specialty/performance brand to me. But ever since they were bought by the Chinese a few years ago and started manufacturing there and in Eastern Europe, they have tried to break into the more mainstream market. I almost bought a set of Pirelli winter tires last year for the ATS because they seemed a good deal and only shipping issues with them led me to get the Michelins instead. I still am not totally convinced I would want them on my car.

I have Michelines on my bike, and by bike I mean bicycle. Not happy with them as they have a tendency to lose grip in turns if I lean to hard. Almost took me out a time or two.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

I think the biggest advantage here is that you don't have to buy a second complete set of TPMS senders if you buy a second set of wheels and tires for winter use.

But my new F150 does give me the tire pressure readings for all 4 wheels, and I rather like that. Not sure about @abacomike and his Mercedes showing the temperatures. Might be useful, but I wouldn't pay $100k for a car just to get that feature.

Might be useful only if you can interpret the data, for 98% of the driving public it would be just numbers on the screen.

snakeweasel

tyguy said:

This is a huge statement from VW:

https://yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-next-generation-combustion-engine-cars-last-201413027.html

Essentially they'll be wrapping up their ICE R&D very soon and transitioning to other technologies. I didn't think a major manufacturer like VW would move so fast.

Would this be a prediction like the flying cars we were supposed to have by now? I really don't see the ICE going away anytime soon.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

tyguy said:

This is a huge statement from VW:

https://yahoo.com/news/volkswagen-says-next-generation-combustion-engine-cars-last-201413027.html

Essentially they'll be wrapping up their ICE R&D very soon and transitioning to other technologies. I didn't think a major manufacturer like VW would move so fast.

Europe is going big time into carbon taxes which may shrink the gap in operating costs between EV and ICE enough to balance out the initial cost difference. Charging infrastructure will be the key to VW’s success.

That cost depends on whether the cost of electricity is included in the comparison. That cost will vary with the source of the electricity, which is from fossil fuels in most cases.

The real cost comparison for life to life of building and deconstruction and recycling the ICE product vs the electric product is usually slanted in favor of the electrics. I have, however, seen articles that compare the whole cost.

The current 3-4 week battle in France on the streets over a leader's implementation of his global warming plitical beliefs and applying a high carbon tax will set a trend.

snakeweasel

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

It always seemed a shame to return a lease without utilizing the full mileage allowance. That must happen quite often but I think I’d spend my last day driving in circles around the dealer until I rolled the last tenth mile as I pulled into the lot.


I would pull in with 1 excess mile and insist that I pay the 25 cents for being over the allotment.

While it looks like a waste not to use all the allotted miles I would think that the number of people that actually drive close enough to that number is somewhat small. I would think that most people would go over or be well under.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

I can't imagine why a knowledgeable mechanic would say that Nissans are junk. Very few mainstream cars built today are junk.

"Junk" is a vague and relative word that can mean different things to different people. What someone might consider junk today might have been considered top of the line 50 years ago. It's pretty much a judgment call but almost any car today will hold up for some time and deliver decent service for many years.

Making a blanket statement that a Nissan is "junk"is disrespectful to a brand of car that many people buy and like. I don't think a really good mechanic would make such a statement. People buy cars for various reasons. He has his preconceived ideas about Nissans and MBs, I don't think the kind of mechanic I would be looking for would make these sweeping unsubstantiated claims....how many Nissans has he worked on and how many Mercedes for one thing?

One car I would never buy is a Fiat....they seem to be flimsy and the past record has not been sterling. My friend got one as a winter beater when he didn't want to drive his Maserati in the snow. He loved that it could turn on a dime, easy to find a parking space, didn't worry about where he parked it. I wouldn't call a Fiat junk, there are people who buy them and like them.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

It always seemed a shame to return a lease without utilizing the full mileage allowance. That must happen quite often but I think I’d spend my last day driving in circles around the dealer until I rolled the last tenth mile as I pulled into the lot.

While it looks like a waste not to use all the allotted miles I would think that the number of people that actually drive close enough to that number is somewhat small. I would think that most people would go over or be well under.

If you know you are only going to go 5000 miles a year can't you get a lease that will take that into consideration and get a lower payment? Of course, the value of a low mileage car isn't that great.....you do get more for it but not that much more.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

I can't imagine why a knowledgeable mechanic would say that Nissans are junk. Very few mainstream cars built today are junk.

"Junk" is a vague and relative word that can mean different things to different people. What someone might consider junk today might have been considered top of the line 50 years ago. It's pretty much a judgment call but almost any car today will hold up for some time and deliver decent service for many years.

Making a blanket statement that a Nissan is "junk"is disrespectful to a brand of car that many people buy and like. I don't think a really good mechanic would make such a statement. People buy cars for various reasons. He has his preconceived ideas about Nissans and MBs, I don't think the kind of mechanic I would be looking for would make these sweeping unsubstantiated claims....how many Nissans has he worked on and how many Mercedes for one thing? One car I would never buy is a Fiat....they seem to be flimsy and the past record has not been sterling. My friend got one as a winter beater when he didn't want to drive his Maserati in the snow. He loved that it could turn on a dime, easy to find a parking space, didn't worry about where he parked it. I wouldn't call a Fiat junk, there are people who buy them and like them.

It's simply an opinion and he like everyone else has it and he like everyone else has a right to publically state said opinion. If you do have an issue with his opinion contact him and have him support it. 

Mechanics do get people asking their opinion on cars, are mechanics not supposed to respond?

stickguy

Driver, for mainstream cars, the lowest I recall seeing is 7,500 miles. Acura uses that as their base to get artificially low payments to advertise. I doubt many people take it, though I could have on my Sonata and still stayed under!

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

pensfan83 said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for.... https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

It always seemed a shame to return a lease without utilizing the full mileage allowance. That must happen quite often but I think I’d spend my last day driving in circles around the dealer until I rolled the last tenth mile as I pulled into the lot.

While it looks like a waste not to use all the allotted miles I would think that the number of people that actually drive close enough to that number is somewhat small. I would think that most people would go over or be well under.

If you know you are only going to go 5000 miles a year can't you get a lease that will take that into consideration and get a lower payment? Of course, the value of a low mileage car isn't that great.....you do get more for it but not that much more.

While I know you can negotiate a higher allowance I am not sure about getting it lower or if it will save you much money. Nor would I want to try to get a lower allowance as the future is uncertain and the 5k a year could go up in a year or two.

Right now I could do a lease as I do 1k or less a month in my car. But I know that the instant I sign that lease my employer will announce that they are moving 10 miles further from my house. 

dino001

driver100 said:

One car I would never buy is a Fiat....they seem to be flimsy and the past record has not been sterling. My friend got one as a winter beater when he didn't want to drive his Maserati in the snow. He loved that it could turn on a dime, easy to find a parking space, didn't worry about where he parked it. I wouldn't call a Fiat junk, there are people who buy them and like them.

Problem with Fiat in the US is its market positioning. They are one of the cheapest brands in Europe, so they have very large "economy" audience. However, vehicle prices in Europe are much higher, due to taxation (among others), both direct (transaction price) and indirect (labor/payroll taxes, additional taxes on business, etc.) and state protection they get in exchange of keeping local (expensive) labor, allowing them for monopolistic and anti-consumer practices (short warranties, unreasonable restrictions for those warranties, monopolistic sales/ and service networks, etc.). European Union is trying to break these practices, but they have only limited success, as their commissioners are ultimately designated by their home governments, who are deeply entrenched with automotive manufacturers. That's definitely the case for Germany, Italy and France are worst actors in that arena, for obvious reasons. Those all factor into making these cars very uncompetitive vs. their peers in this market, so they'll try to push their image up the ladder to justify the price. But you can do that only so far with the marketing if the product is what it is. This is also a reason why French cars didn't make it in the US.

bwia

My son in law, who owns a Tesla Model X is pressuring me to join the EV bandwagon. He sends me tons of materials on the Jaguar I-Pace and says it is the perfect vehicle for a retired gent like myself as it is a perfect example of Jaguar's slogan: grace, space and pace.

Not withstanding its fugly front end and boxy styling I told him that a Hyundai Kona EV was a better deal than the I-Pace in terms of price, range and quicker charging times. Was I flippant in my response or was I making a convincing case for the Kona?

abacomike

While I know you can negotiate a higher allowance I am not sure about getting it lower or if it will save you much money. Nor would I want to try to get a lower allowance as the future is uncertain and the 5k a year could go up in a year or two.

Right now I could do a lease as I do 1k or less a month in my car. But I know that the instant I sign that lease my employer will announce that they are moving 10 miles further from my house. 

Even though I have a 36,000 mile/3 year lease on the S450, the monthly payment is based upon the residual at the end of the lease which is $58,000 and what the cap cost of the car was at the onset of the lease. If I turn in a 3 year old car with 25,000 miles on it, the car will be worth more than the residual which means I will have some equity. I researched this and it would seem that if I tried to get out of my lease right now, they would allow me $78,000 for my car which is about $8,000 more than the payoff to buy the car from the leasing company. So I would have about $8,000 to use toward the lease or purchase of another Mercedes. But because I put a large down payment (cap cost reduction) into the lease to reduce my monthly payments to $588 a month + tax, if I got out of my lease now, I would have a net loss of about $17,000. That is why it pays me to keep the car for the full term of the lease (or 5 months prior to take advantage of the pull-ahead program) or extend the lease at the end of the 36 months for another 12 months.

Right now, I am just enjoying this car and expect to keep it at least until November, 2020.

dino001

This must be hard, Mike. I feel for you, man... I wonder what kind of mental damage a tire change will do to you... Two or three oil changes - shiver. Small smudge on a seat, little scratch on a hood, wow that will be unbearable...

At least you will have something to tell about to your grandkids. Children, I had a three-year-old car. It had 25 thousand miles!!! It was...

jmonroe1

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

For Acura fans....this is the one I’m keeping my eyes open for....

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1120244_2020-acura-tlx-type-s-spy-shots

That would be great if they stay on that timeline. My lease matures in September 2020 and my understanding is Acura will fully waive (as in not roll over) up to 3 payments which means I could make a move as early as June if I wanted.

My lease on the S450 is up on 11/10/20.  It’s a 3 year - 12K per year lease.  At the rate I am going, at the end of the lease the car will have only 25,000 miles on it.  Since the warranty is 4 years 50,000 miles, I could extend the lease for 12 more months (48 months total) and still be under warranty, if I wanted.

Mercedes Financial Services has a 5 month pull ahead program on its leases if I lease or buy another Mercedes.  That is doubtful so I will either walk away from the lease after 36 months or extend the lease for 12 months.  Those are my plans for now.

It always seemed a shame to return a lease without utilizing the full mileage allowance. That must happen quite often but I think I’d spend my last day driving in circles around the dealer until I rolled the last tenth mile as I pulled into the lot.

While it looks like a waste not to use all the allotted miles I would think that the number of people that actually drive close enough to that number is somewhat small. I would think that most people would go over or be well under.

If you know you are only going to go 5000 miles a year can't you get a lease that will take that into consideration and get a lower payment? Of course, the value of a low mileage car isn't that great.....you do get more for it but not that much more.

While I know you can negotiate a higher allowance I am not sure about getting it lower or if it will save you much money. Nor would I want to try to get a lower allowance as the future is uncertain and the 5k a year could go up in a year or two.

Right now I could do a lease as I do 1k or less a month in my car. But I know that the instant I sign that lease my employer will announce that they are moving 10 miles further from my house. 

That's because your employer also owns the dealership that leased the car to you.

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

bwia said:

My son in law, who owns a Tesla Model X is pressuring me to join the EV bandwagon. He sends me tons of materials on the Jaguar I-Pace and says it is the perfect vehicle for a retired gent like myself as it is a perfect example of Jaguar's slogan: grace, space and pace.

Not withstanding its fugly front end and boxy styling I told him that a Hyundai Kona EV was a better deal than the I-Pace in terms of price, range and quicker charging times. Was I flippant in my response or was I making a convincing case for the Kona?

I think your argument was right on the money. The Kona EV is a real player in this game. Everyone is hyping the Jaguar I-Pace because it is the first real competition for Tesla in the so-called "luxury" SUV-EV class. So the I-Pace is Tesla's wake-up call. But the Kona EV hits the sweet spot for most Americans who don't want to, or can't, spend $100K on an SUV that wouldn't pay itself back in fuel costs even if you drove it to Jupiter and back.

225-250 miles of range is more than enough for 99% of drivers. You don't need supercharger stations and you don't need $100K EVs to get the job done, and done well.

jmonroe1

Mr_Shiftright said:

bwia said:

My son in law, who owns a Tesla Model X is pressuring me to join the EV bandwagon. He sends me tons of materials on the Jaguar I-Pace and says it is the perfect vehicle for a retired gent like myself as it is a perfect example of Jaguar's slogan: grace, space and pace.

Not withstanding its fugly front end and boxy styling I told him that a Hyundai Kona EV was a better deal than the I-Pace in terms of price, range and quicker charging times. Was I flippant in my response or was I making a convincing case for the Kona?

I think your argument was right on the money. The Kona EV is a real player in this game. Everyone is hyping the Jaguar I-Pace because it is the first real competition for Tesla in the so-called "luxury" SUV-EV class. So the I-Pace is Tesla's wake-up call. But the Kona EV hits the sweet spot for most Americans who don't want to, or can't, spend $100K on an SUV that wouldn't pay itself back in fuel costs even if you drove it to Jupiter and back.

225-250 miles of range is more than enough for 99% of drivers. You don't need supercharger stations and you don't need $100K EVs to get the job done, and done well.

Not that I want a Kona but I looked at both Edmunds and the Hyundai site to see the Kona specs but neither site shows the Kona as an EV. I only see the 2.0 L 4 cyl. gas engine with a 6 speed auto tranny in both the FWD and AWD versions.

What am I missing?

jmonroe

Mr_Shiftright

The Kona EV won't be available until 2019.

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

Europe is going big time into carbon taxes which may shrink the gap in operating costs between EV and ICE enough to balance out the initial cost difference. Charging infrastructure will be the key to VW’s success.

I think if Tesla focused on becoming a battery, technology, software, and infrastructure provider for other auto manufacturers (such as, well, any of them), it would become a wildly profitable company. Manufacturing their own cars only drags them down.

Mr_Shiftright

I agree. Going into the car business was the stupidest move Musk ever made IMO.

stickguy

yes and no. no, if the car business let him establish the rest of that stuff.

maybe his LT play was to get it up and running, sell off the car making part to someone like GM, and then just support the whole industry. Makes sense to then license the supercharger technology to other makes too to leverage that network.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

I can't imagine why a knowledgeable mechanic would say that Nissans are junk. Very few mainstream cars built today are junk.

"Junk" is a vague and relative word that can mean different things to different people. What someone might consider junk today might have been considered top of the line 50 years ago. It's pretty much a judgment call but almost any car today will hold up for some time and deliver decent service for many years.

Making a blanket statement that a Nissan is "junk"is disrespectful to a brand of car that many people buy and like. I don't think a really good mechanic would make such a statement. People buy cars for various reasons. He has his preconceived ideas about Nissans and MBs, I don't think the kind of mechanic I would be looking for would make these sweeping unsubstantiated claims....how many Nissans has he worked on and how many Mercedes for one thing?

One car I would never buy is a Fiat....they seem to be flimsy and the past record has not been sterling. My friend got one as a winter beater when he didn't want to drive his Maserati in the snow. He loved that it could turn on a dime, easy to find a parking space, didn't worry about where he parked it. I wouldn't call a Fiat junk, there are people who buy them and like them.

Scotty Kilmer thinks Fiats are junk too. He cites initial sales figures of 50,000 units shrinking to 5,000 as proof.

As to Nissan, judge for yourself.

https://youtu.be/8h_r_OuJU-w

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Driver, for mainstream cars, the lowest I recall seeing is 7,500 miles. Acura uses that as their base to get artificially low payments to advertise. I doubt many people take it, though I could have on my Sonata and still stayed under!

I could live with 5000 miles a year since that’s more than we put on my wife's car. Between 4 vehicles I only drive about 12,000 miles a year.

ab348

As far as Fiat goes, I have low regard for what they are selling in North America at the moment. EXCEPT, I would love to drive a 500 Abarth. There are a couple zipping around here and I love the exhaust note and what seems like pretty good performance.

tifighter

bwia said:

My son in law, who owns a Tesla Model X is pressuring me to join the EV bandwagon. He sends me tons of materials on the Jaguar I-Pace and says it is the perfect vehicle for a retired gent like myself as it is a perfect example of Jaguar's slogan: grace, space and pace.

Not withstanding its fugly front end and boxy styling I told him that a Hyundai Kona EV was a better deal than the I-Pace in terms of price, range and quicker charging times. Was I flippant in my response or was I making a convincing case for the Kona?

I-Pace has a few issues. It's range is poor given the size of the battery. An electron-guzzler. JLR continues to struggle with infotainment. Laggy. Similar sized Model Y will certainly kill the I-Pace. And that's before you factor in the supercharger network, which can't be given kudos enough, IMO.

The Kona/Niro EV looks pretty competitive. Final pricing TBD. But given that they've already said there won't be nationwide inventory, I don't know that it can really change the game that much. Plus, until there is a better CCS network nationwide, charging will be hit or miss for trips. More miss than hit.

jmonroe1

Mr_Shiftright said:

The Kona EV won't be available until 2019.

You'll have to tell Hyundai about that. When I go to the Hyundai site and select 2019 Kona, they only show various gas engines for all Kona trim levels. Maybe Hyundai knows I don't buy Hyundai anymore since I dumped them when I moved up the chain to the Genesis company.

jmonroe