Tried to teach the kids a bit of "pilotage" using general geography/topography before they started driving. Important to know generally where you are and what's around you. So we live in a pretty wide valley between some significant ridges and pretty close to one of the ridges. So if you are east/north of home and keep "those mountains" on your left, you ought to get close enough to where you start to recognize the area around home...
So one day I have them out and inform them that THEY are going to get us back home. I'm the driver, but you two will tell me where to turn. I'll follow any directions you give me. (They were about 7 and 11 years old at the time) First intersection, they choose poorly, and we're off on an adventure. I played it out... about 2 hours later they admit they're lost (they DID start to follow a route to Grandma's house so they thought they were going SOMEWHERE) so I "come back online" and we have a nice trip to Gettysburg!
After that, they paid more attention to their surroundings... and anytime we'd say "Get in the car" they'd ask where we were going and I'd say Gettysburg. Dad jokes never grow old...LOL
Here is my NAV story (I think I told this way back when we were on NAV systems the first time).
Not too long after I got my '09 Genny, I was helping Son #1 with a plumbing job at his first house. He needed a part that the big boxes didn't have so he called this well stocked plumbing place about a mile and a half from him. The good news was they had the part but they moved about two weeks ago and were now about 12 miles away in an area we both knew about but not the out of the way street where it was now located.
My Genny was blocking his car so he said, "this will be a good time to find out how good your NAV system is, so lets take your car". That was fine with me and I told him he could drive. I set up the NAV system and off we go. I don't think we were even two miles out of his driveway and he says, "where the hell is this thing trying to take me? I know a better way get to that area than what she is trying tell me". So, he doesn't do what she said and the NAV lady says, "recalculating". This had to happen at least 6 or 7 times. Finally we are in the area that neither of us knows so we had to do what she said. We are now about 2 blocks from our destination, if she is right, so we keep following her directions. As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. For a while there I thought she was going to say, "since you seem to know more than me...GOOD BYE" !!! :@ However, she was a very courteous girl and didn't say that but if it was me in that NAV thingy, that's what I would have said.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
Sucks to use — and dangerous — when you’re the sole driver. Many of them are out of date too. I prefer my phone or Nav with voice directions.
The voice directions are probably pretty safe to use while driving but I find looking at the map screen on the ATS is pretty distracting, partly because it takes some time to orient yourself to what it is showing vs what you see through the windshield.
As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
And they always work right in the non-wannabe cars?
I've looked into getting an update, but for as much as we drive the car (and use the NAV), it doesn't seem worth it.
We have an old TomTom that we sometimes use and the map they use has a copyright trap in it, a residential road that I often use is shown on the map as not going through. The darn thing keeps trying to route me around it which is great when I have the John Cleese voice running.
If the TomTom drives you off a cliff would you sue TomTom?
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
It's funny timing, a guy at work that I usually take a walk with every day, told his TomTom wouldn't connect when he went to use it the other day. It's old, so he replaced it with a Garmin.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
And they always work right in the non-wannabe cars?
They work about 87% of the time. A few days ago it told me to go right and the place I programmed was on that street, but it was to the left. How does that happen?
But, probably more accurate in the real car than the wannabe car.
It's funny timing, a guy at work that I usually take a walk with every day, told his TomTom wouldn't connect when he went to use it the other day. It's old, so he replaced it with a Garmin.
When they get old they get disoriented, just like us.
As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
And they always work right in the non-wannabe cars?
They work about 87% of the time. A few days ago it told me to go right and the place I programmed was on that street, but it was to the left. How does that happen?
But, probably more accurate in the real car than the wannabe car.
How does that happen? Probably a recessive wannabe gene snuck into your Benz one night when you unknowingly left your garage door wide open.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I ignore Navi all the time if I prefer going a different way. At least when I know where I am
...and how many times does the Nav voice tell you to make a U-Turn before she gives you a "recalculating" ?
Following some of the old timers at work can be very stressful on GPS. They all seem to know various “secret” ways to any destination. My Garmin keeps telling me to turn around before finally giving up as we near the objective. One guy, an ex-long haul trucker knows so many alternate routes that some of them are paved in dirt. When he goes that way I just turn the GPS off.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
And they always work right in the non-wannabe cars?
They work about 87% of the time. A few days ago it told me to go right and the place I programmed was on that street, but it was to the left. How does that happen?
But, probably more accurate in the real car than the wannabe car.
How does that happen? Probably a recessive wannabe gene snuck into your Benz one night when you unknowingly left your garage door wide open.
jmonroe
Maybe Hyundai sends agents out to sabotage Mercedes. Part of wannabe marketing program. The MB is not perfect, but seems much improved over other units I have used, but WAZE is probably more accurate overall.
I will say one thing, the 2017 has much better voice recognition than the 2015.
I'm not a bourbon drinker, so not really my kind of place, but it is pretty cool.
Didn’t know that!
I don't think it's been a gas station since the '50s or '60s. It was already a shoe store in the '80s. Sort of an independent DSW type of place. For probably 20 years, at least. Back when there was retail in small city downtowns.
Interesting...I’ve spent quite a bit of time recently down in Newport. The local bands I follow play at the Mansion Hill Bar. Plus, knowing the owners of Newberry’s, I seem to stop and visit them once every couple of weeks. Just did Taste of Newport a couple of weeks ago. Not nearly as big as Cincinnati’s, but a nice start nonetheless. Then, there’s all the entertainment with the Aquarium and the Levy. Nice job by Newport.
I like what they’re doing with that area....sort of keeping it’s “old town” feel while revitalizing and redirecting it’s core.
The town I grew up in (Hamilton, OHIO) is going through something similar right now....moving from a mainly industrial base and converting into an artists’ enclave.
I'm not a bourbon drinker, so not really my kind of place, but it is pretty cool.
Didn’t know that!
I don't think it's been a gas station since the '50s or '60s. It was already a shoe store in the '80s. Sort of an independent DSW type of place. For probably 20 years, at least. Back when there was retail in small city downtowns.
Interesting...I’ve spent quite a bit of time recently down in Newport. The local bands I follow play at the Mansion Hill Bar. Plus, knowing the owners of Newberry’s, I seem to stop and visit them once every couple of weeks. Just did Taste of Newport a couple of weeks ago. Not nearly as big as Cincinnati’s, but a nice start nonetheless. Then, there’s all the entertainment with the Aquarium and the Levy. Nice job by Newport.
I like what they’re doing with that area....sort of keeping it’s “old town” feel while revitalizing and redirecting it’s core.
The town I grew up in (Hamilton, OHIO) is going through something similar right now....moving from a mainly industrial base and converting into an artists’ enclave.
These were taken Tuesday....
Impressive. What is the last pic of the wonderfully restored Victorian?
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I like that Gothic house, very little of that architecture here as it was out of style by the time most of this region was settled and developing.
The C-pillar DLO fail on the new 3er irks me.
Congrats to the Blues, finally a breath of fresh air in what often seems like the darkest dumbest timeline. They worked harder for it and won it cleanly. Chara and Bergeron already have Cups, ratweasel Marchand and inheritance elite sleazeball (I mean bootstrapping second coming of Horatio Alger who built it all himself lolol) Jacobs don't deserve another.
Your quote reminds me of 12 hour trips taken in USAF KC 135 tankers, when navigation was done by sextant.
I did coastal navigation up and down the WA, BC & AK coasts back in my sailing days (mid '70s), so had a nice hand bearing compass, RDF and depth sounder. Finding the end of the breakwater in the fog at Alert Bay early one morning was highly satisfying. I even dabbled in celestial navigation and had the appropriate sight reduction tables. Now anyone with $250 to buy a GPS can do a better job with exactly zero knowledge of anything.
Just another useless skill, like knowing how to spell.
Did somebody hit that guy in the head with an axe...he has a cut on his forehead. He really likes to pronounce his words clearly. The car looks pretty good, 380 h.p. for $58k, and it is beautiful and sounds like a blast to drive. Another thing I wonder....do these guys make any money from these videos?
Several scenes of the tornado and straight line wind damage in the area have shown classic cars in garages and barns damaged by the building's being ripped open.
I would say this is fatal? No buffing it out.
The green and white Ohio license plate is probably from the model year for the Corvette. I don't recall what year that was. I searched and found 1912, 1961, and 1973 had green backgrounds. I'll go with 1973... LOL
Several scenes of the tornado and straight line wind damage in the area have shown classic cars in garages and barns damaged by the building's being ripped open.
I would say this is fatal? No buffing it out.
The green and white Ohio license plate is probably from the model year for the Corvette. I don't recall what year that was. I searched and found 1912, 1961, and 1973 had green backgrounds. I'll go with 1973... LOL
Oh man, that's enough to make a grown man cry !!
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Your quote reminds me of 12 hour trips taken in USAF KC 135 tankers, when navigation was done by sextant.
I did coastal navigation up and down the WA, BC & AK coasts back in my sailing days (mid '70s), so had a nice hand bearing compass, RDF and depth sounder. Finding the end of the breakwater in the fog at Alert Bay early one morning was highly satisfying. I even dabbled in celestial navigation and had the appropriate sight reduction tables. Now anyone with $250 to buy a GPS can do a better job with exactly zero knowledge of anything.
Just another useless skill, like knowing how to spell.
Why so steep $’s? Indeed zero knowledge! However once being in the biz, I look at the historical (navigation) context, albeit more deeply.
Just another useless skill? Sup dude/etc? It may be a metaphor as to why current day generations can be more useless? 🎭
@graphicguy Mansion Hill Tavern. Good music. But, we don't frequent bars that allow smoking.
We were also at Taste of Newport. They've never been able to get any traction with that, it seems. We used to frequent Newport Pizza.
Speaking of blues, have you seen Sonny Moorman?
Yeah...was shocked to walk into Mansion Hill and remember what it was like when they still allowed smoking in bars. No one was smoking while we were there (about an hour) but you could still smell it.
Just saw Sonny last night. He was doing a solo gig at one of my favorite restaurants on the "other side" of the river....www.meritagecincy.com. He just released a new album. He plays 7 days a week. I talked to him briefly during a break. He's teaching during the day and playing every night. Great guitar player....as good as any of the "big names". He just never caught a break.
Did somebody hit that guy in the head with an axe...he has a cut on his forehead. He really likes to pronounce his words clearly. The car looks pretty good, 380 h.p. for $58k, and it is beautiful and sounds like a blast to drive. Another thing I wonder....do these guys make any money from these videos?
@driver100 ...they do make good money doing the videos. I read somewhere that a subscriber to a Youtube video series is worth $1. You have 10 subscribers, you get $10. You have 100,000 subscribers, you get $100,000. You have 1,000,000 subscribers, you get a cool million dollars.
I noticed his head "gash", too. He also writes for Autotrader.
@graphicguy Mansion Hill Tavern. Good music. But, we don't frequent bars that allow smoking.
We were also at Taste of Newport. They've never been able to get any traction with that, it seems. We used to frequent Newport Pizza.
Speaking of blues, have you seen Sonny Moorman?
Yeah...was shocked to walk into Mansion Hill and remember what it was like when they still allowed smoking in bars. No one was smoking while we were there (about an hour) but you could still smell it.
Just saw Sonny last night. He was doing a solo gig at one of my favorite restaurants on the "other side" of the river....www.meritagecincy.com. He just released a new album. He plays 7 days a week. I talked to him briefly during a break. He's teaching during the day and playing every night. Great guitar player....as good as any of the "big names". He just never caught a break.
We saw him at the Taste of Cincinnati. He was on fire. Makes me want to go see him.
Does he play with his band at the Meritage? We've never been there.
I'm not a bourbon drinker, so not really my kind of place, but it is pretty cool.
Didn’t know that!
I don't think it's been a gas station since the '50s or '60s. It was already a shoe store in the '80s. Sort of an independent DSW type of place. For probably 20 years, at least. Back when there was retail in small city downtowns.
Interesting...I’ve spent quite a bit of time recently down in Newport. The local bands I follow play at the Mansion Hill Bar. Plus, knowing the owners of Newberry’s, I seem to stop and visit them once every couple of weeks. Just did Taste of Newport a couple of weeks ago. Not nearly as big as Cincinnati’s, but a nice start nonetheless. Then, there’s all the entertainment with the Aquarium and the Levy. Nice job by Newport.
I like what they’re doing with that area....sort of keeping it’s “old town” feel while revitalizing and redirecting it’s core.
The town I grew up in (Hamilton, OHIO) is going through something similar right now....moving from a mainly industrial base and converting into an artists’ enclave.
These were taken Tuesday....
Impressive. What is the last pic of the wonderfully restored Victorian?
That house is now a museum. It's really beautiful as the pic does not do it justice.
@graphicguy Mansion Hill Tavern. Good music. But, we don't frequent bars that allow smoking.
We were also at Taste of Newport. They've never been able to get any traction with that, it seems. We used to frequent Newport Pizza.
Speaking of blues, have you seen Sonny Moorman?
Yeah...was shocked to walk into Mansion Hill and remember what it was like when they still allowed smoking in bars. No one was smoking while we were there (about an hour) but you could still smell it.
Just saw Sonny last night. He was doing a solo gig at one of my favorite restaurants on the "other side" of the river....www.meritagecincy.com. He just released a new album. He plays 7 days a week. I talked to him briefly during a break. He's teaching during the day and playing every night. Great guitar player....as good as any of the "big names". He just never caught a break.
Then I think it is best to enjoy Moorman in the venues that he chooses.
@graphicguy Mansion Hill Tavern. Good music. But, we don't frequent bars that allow smoking.
We were also at Taste of Newport. They've never been able to get any traction with that, it seems. We used to frequent Newport Pizza.
Speaking of blues, have you seen Sonny Moorman?
Yeah...was shocked to walk into Mansion Hill and remember what it was like when they still allowed smoking in bars. No one was smoking while we were there (about an hour) but you could still smell it.
Just saw Sonny last night. He was doing a solo gig at one of my favorite restaurants on the "other side" of the river....www.meritagecincy.com. He just released a new album. He plays 7 days a week. I talked to him briefly during a break. He's teaching during the day and playing every night. Great guitar player....as good as any of the "big names". He just never caught a break.
We saw him at the Taste of Cincinnati. He was on fire. Makes me want to go see him.
Does he play with his band at the Meritage? We've never been there.
He's solo at the Restaurant. It's a two story place with a restaurant on the first floor and a bourbon bar on the 2nd floor.
Comments
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
So one day I have them out and inform them that THEY are going to get us back home. I'm the driver, but you two will tell me where to turn. I'll follow any directions you give me. (They were about 7 and 11 years old at the time) First intersection, they choose poorly, and we're off on an adventure. I played it out... about 2 hours later they admit they're lost (they DID start to follow a route to Grandma's house so they thought they were going SOMEWHERE) so I "come back online" and we have a nice trip to Gettysburg!
After that, they paid more attention to their surroundings... and anytime we'd say "Get in the car" they'd ask where we were going and I'd say Gettysburg. Dad jokes never grow old...LOL
@ 333 hrs be @ 33rd & 3rd....😉 take 3 shots 🍸. Then E & E. Last ones hitting the club buys....
Touche sir. Touche.
Not too long after I got my '09 Genny, I was helping Son #1 with a plumbing job at his first house. He needed a part that the big boxes didn't have so he called this well stocked plumbing place about a mile and a half from him. The good news was they had the part but they moved about two weeks ago and were now about 12 miles away in an area we both knew about but not the out of the way street where it was now located.
My Genny was blocking his car so he said, "this will be a good time to find out how good your NAV system is, so lets take your car". That was fine with me and I told him he could drive. I set up the NAV system and off we go. I don't think we were even two miles out of his driveway and he says, "where the hell is this thing trying to take me? I know a better way get to that area than what she is trying tell me". So, he doesn't do what she said and the NAV lady says, "recalculating". This had to happen at least 6 or 7 times. Finally we are in the area that neither of us knows so we had to do what she said. We are now about 2 blocks from our destination, if she is right, so we keep following her directions. As we get about 100 feet from the place, my Son says, "oh, there it is". As he is about to make a LEFT turn into their parking lot, she says, "your destination is on your RIGHT. Your Navigation system is now off". He looks at me and says, "I should have known that girl didn't know her left from her right". Maybe so but she got us close enough and I thought she was very patient with him. For a while there I thought she was going to say, "since you seem to know more than me...GOOD BYE" !!! :@ However, she was a very courteous girl and didn't say that but if it was me in that NAV thingy, that's what I would have said.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
jmonroe
That is why I don't buy a wannabe car...they don't know their left from their right. Somethings just won't work the way they are supposed to.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
If the TomTom drives you off a cliff would you sue TomTom?
But, probably more accurate in the real car than the wannabe car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Speak for yourself.
...and how many times does the Nav voice tell you to make a U-Turn before she gives you a "recalculating" ?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I will say one thing, the 2017 has much better voice recognition than the 2015.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Interesting...I’ve spent quite a bit of time recently down in Newport. The local bands I follow play at the Mansion Hill Bar. Plus, knowing the owners of Newberry’s, I seem to stop and visit them once every couple of weeks. Just did Taste of Newport a couple of weeks ago. Not nearly as big as Cincinnati’s, but a nice start nonetheless. Then, there’s all the entertainment with the Aquarium and the Levy. Nice job by Newport.
I like what they’re doing with that area....sort of keeping it’s “old town” feel while revitalizing and redirecting it’s core.
The town I grew up in (Hamilton, OHIO) is going through something similar right now....moving from a mainly industrial base and converting into an artists’ enclave.
These were taken Tuesday....
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
The C-pillar DLO fail on the new 3er irks me.
Congrats to the Blues, finally a breath of fresh air in what often seems like the darkest dumbest timeline. They worked harder for it and won it cleanly. Chara and Bergeron already have Cups, ratweasel Marchand and inheritance elite sleazeball (I mean bootstrapping second coming of Horatio Alger who built it all himself lolol) Jacobs don't deserve another.
We were also at Taste of Newport. They've never been able to get any traction with that, it seems. We used to frequent Newport Pizza.
Speaking of blues, have you seen Sonny Moorman?
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Just another useless skill, like knowing how to spell.
Did somebody hit that guy in the head with an axe...he has a cut on his forehead. He really likes to pronounce his words clearly. The car looks pretty good, 380 h.p. for $58k, and it is beautiful and sounds like a blast to drive. Another thing I wonder....do these guys make any money from these videos?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I would say this is fatal? No buffing it out.
The green and white Ohio license plate is probably from the model year for the Corvette.
I don't recall what year that was. I searched and found 1912, 1961, and 1973 had green backgrounds.
I'll go with 1973... LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Probably a $3000 car, before the damage.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Does Scotty earn money from his videos?
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Just another useless skill? Sup dude/etc? It may be a metaphor as to why current day generations can be more useless? 🎭
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
1. Use cursive, even as a computer font
2. Outlaw automatic transmissions
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and let us know! Post a pic of your new purchase or lease!
MODERATOR
2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Yeah...was shocked to walk into Mansion Hill and remember what it was like when they still allowed smoking in bars. No one was smoking while we were there (about an hour) but you could still smell it.
Just saw Sonny last night. He was doing a solo gig at one of my favorite restaurants on the "other side" of the river....www.meritagecincy.com. He just released a new album. He plays 7 days a week. I talked to him briefly during a break. He's teaching during the day and playing every night. Great guitar player....as good as any of the "big names". He just never caught a break.
@driver100 ...they do make good money doing the videos. I read somewhere that a subscriber to a Youtube video series is worth $1. You have 10 subscribers, you get $10. You have 100,000 subscribers, you get $100,000. You have 1,000,000 subscribers, you get a cool million dollars.
I noticed his head "gash", too. He also writes for Autotrader.
Agree about that BMW.
Does he play with his band at the Meritage? We've never been there.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
He usually posts where he's playing.
http://sonnymoormangroup.com
Not to exclude anyone, this is who we're talking about....