Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

nyccarguy

@fezo‌

I say get what you want, new. Toyota is leasing these things super cheap. You deserve it. Then you buy it out in 3 years.

driver100

nyccarguy said:

@fezo‌

I say get what you want, new. Toyota is leasing these things super cheap. You deserve it. Then you buy it out in 3 years.

Great idea nyc. Lease for 3 years and then buy it if you really like it...that way you get exactly the car you want, with a full warranty, and it should be good to last at least 10 years.....could cost less in the long run.

qbrozen

But then you are stuck for 3 years if you don't like it. Ask me how I know.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

But then you are stuck for 3 years if you don't like it. Ask me how I know.

Leaf.

qbrozen

Leaf was just 2 years and I was stuck with that, too!
You can add my 2006 Accord and my wife's Galant she leased for 4 years before we got together.

stickguy

Only 33 more months on my lease!

driver100

qbrozen said:

But then you are stuck for 3 years if you don't like it. Ask me how I know.

Not necessarily. Lease Busters if you are really stuck!

Still might be better than buying one and then selling it again.

qbrozen

is that a lease takeover service? Doesn't work for every manufacturer. Nissan doesn't allow it, for instance. I don't believe Honda does, either. Not sure about that one.

driver100

qbrozen said:

is that a lease takeover service? Doesn't work for every manufacturer. Nissan doesn't allow it, for instance. I don't believe Honda does, either. Not sure about that one.

It is a takeover service. Just out of curiosity.....what car did you lease and then not like, and why? I am sure any person could test drive a car, think they like it, buy or lease it, and then find out they don't like it - easy to happen...happens when some people get married too!

But, what happened to you?

graphicguy

qbrozen said:

Leaf was just 2 years and I was stuck with that, too!
You can add my 2006 Accord and my wife's Galant she leased for 4 years before we got together.

Q...I remember those Gallants being hot little numbers ar one point in time, with AWD and turbo motors way before that all became the rage (like now).

qbrozen

Well, the Leaf was one. It was actually my wife, not me. I never would have gotten that car for myself. It wasn't a bad car, as cars go. But she had too much range anxiety and refused to drive it. I turned it back in with I think 2-3 mos remaining just to get it out of my garage. Out of the 30k miles we were allowed on the 2-yr lease, we used 9500.

As for my '06 Accord... well, I was taken with the idea of saving money on my payment and gas and getting back to a stick shift (traded a Lincoln LS v8 on it). Seemed sporty, comfy, and a elegant on the test drive. Long-term ownership proved it to be otherwise. Extreme understeer when pushed hard, noisy, and uncomfortable for more than 90 mins at a time. That experience made me determine that Honda is very good at making cars that seem to be more than they are long enough to get through a test drive. Kind of like Bose stereos.

As for that Mitsu... that was a young girl getting herself her first new car. She was going WAY over on the miles, was out of warranty, and I hated the car (hated driving it, riding in it, and working on it). She got into that just before we started dating, so it was probably around our 1st wedding anniversary that we had to set that car aside and let it sit for 8 mos or so to avoid going over the mileage. Mitsu wouldn't allow early turn-in for some reason, even if I made the remaining payments.

[Deleted User]

Michaell said:

Subaru update - just got off the phone with the dealer. The Outback is in a railyard here in Colorado and is expected to be at the dealer a week from today (3/3/15). Guess I'll get the CX-7 cleaned up and take it to CarFax on Saturday for an estimate.

Salesman said he would email me a copy of the window sticker - which will be quite useful when planning our offer.

Good to hear. If I can make a recommendation, it would be to target 3% below invoice, going no higher than 2% below invoice including dealer fees. We did just that with our 2015 Outback and haggling was almost nonexistent. Okay, one more recommendation. The newer environmentally friendly paints have been super sensitive to rock chips and marring, so a quality clear bra will keep the front end protected.

boomchek

imidazol97 said:

fezo said:

Oh, right from the start that was a big attraction. I'm a big hatchback fan and the cargo space for a car that size is immense. Lots of passenger room, too.

Is it me or is this "blue" car black or grey?

The carfax shows and accident 12/4/2012 and it was in dealer inventory in August. Then went to auction in November. Odd that it didn't sell? Now it is at a used car lot. That would be enough to concern me. What do some others think that it didn't sell in August through February?

Some dealers just don't keep stuff over 90 days old. Some cars will do better in one part of a city compared to others hence the no sale at the original dealer lot. Used car lot picked it up in November, so it's common that it didn't sell from then until now as it's a typically slower time of the year for used cars.

Michaell

tyguy said:

Michaell said:

Subaru update - just got off the phone with the dealer. The Outback is in a railyard here in Colorado and is expected to be at the dealer a week from today (3/3/15). Guess I'll get the CX-7 cleaned up and take it to CarFax on Saturday for an estimate.

Salesman said he would email me a copy of the window sticker - which will be quite useful when planning our offer.

Good to hear. If I can make a recommendation, it would be to target 3% below invoice, going no higher than 2% below invoice including dealer fees. We did just that with our 2015 Outback and haggling was almost nonexistent. Okay, one more recommendation. The newer environmentally friendly paints have been super sensitive to rock chips and marring, so a quality clear bra will keep the front end protected.

Recommendation(s) received.

3% under invoice is $33,966 - I'm happy to round it up to an even $34K. If I include the dealer fee, then the offer drops to $33,500 ($499 dealer fee - ouch).

I will look into having a clear bra applied to protect the paint. We've had it on several cars in the past - always good to have, given that Colorado uses lots of gravel to deal with the snow.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? First time Subaru owner, so any tips would be appreciated.

stever

Let's see - you have dogs, so you're covered there. A kayak would be good. How are you fixed for bumper stickers? Like vegan pizzas?

Michaell

stever said:

Let's see - you have dogs, so you're covered there. A kayak would be good. How are you fixed for bumper stickers? Like vegan pizzas?

The wife is against bumper stickers - I put a K&N window clingy on the Mazda and she threw a fit.

Neither one of us are the outdoor type - unless you count the time walking from the car to the mall. The roof rails may never get used.

Which is a shame, cuz for 2015 they now swing out to make the cross bars. Very cool feature.

stever

A few years back they really messed up the roof racks - forget exactly what now, but they made it difficult to haul canoes on one model. Ironic, since the Am. Canoe Association is one of their "partner" clubs. The swing out ones do sound nice - tuck 'em out of the way and keep the noise down when not in use, but there when you hit the big box store and decide to buy a ladder or something at the last minute.

venture

Michaell said:

tyguy said:

Michaell said:

Subaru update - just got off the phone with the dealer. The Outback is in a railyard here in Colorado and is expected to be at the dealer a week from today (3/3/15). Guess I'll get the CX-7 cleaned up and take it to CarFax on Saturday for an estimate.

Salesman said he would email me a copy of the window sticker - which will be quite useful when planning our offer.

Good to hear. If I can make a recommendation, it would be to target 3% below invoice, going no higher than 2% below invoice including dealer fees. We did just that with our 2015 Outback and haggling was almost nonexistent. Okay, one more recommendation. The newer environmentally friendly paints have been super sensitive to rock chips and marring, so a quality clear bra will keep the front end protected.

Recommendation(s) received.

3% under invoice is $33,966 - I'm happy to round it up to an even $34K. If I include the dealer fee, then the offer drops to $33,500 ($499 dealer fee - ouch).

I will look into having a clear bra applied to protect the paint. We've had it on several cars in the past - always good to have, given that Colorado uses lots of gravel to deal with the snow.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? First time Subaru owner, so any tips would be appreciated.

I don't know if the navigation system is like the Forester (which I don't think it is, but) have the dealer geek show you how it works. The one in my wife's '15 Forester is horrible.

fezo

Hey, stick! We got screwed. Holman sold that one. At least they sold it before I asked as opposed to the other place. Am leaning to new. Would look about leasing then buying it. Have never done a lease. Will look about.

[Deleted User]

Michaell said:

3% under invoice is $33,966 - I'm happy to round it up to an even $34K. If I include the dealer fee, then the offer drops to $33,500 ($499 dealer fee - ouch).

I will look into having a clear bra applied to protect the paint. We've had it on several cars in the past - always good to have, given that Colorado uses lots of gravel to deal with the snow.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? First time Subaru owner, so any tips would be appreciated.

I hear ya' about the Colorado gravel. That's exactly what I had in mind when I had clear bra applied to our Subies.

I do have a couple of other minor suggestions:
1. If you plan to use the cargo area for anything messy, the optional Subaru seat back protectors are very, very handy. They're inexpensive and add a cargo liner level of protection to prevent stains and tears. I was using our Outback to haul a door this week and those protectors saved the seats from damage by taking the abuse. Handy little things.
2. The splash guards aren't worth it. They're tiny and do very little to protect the vehicle.
3. Subaru's soft and grippy all weather mats are really nice under the feet, but they don't protect the carpet all that well. If you want to keep your carpet dry and clean, then the WeatherTech or Husky custom formed liners are much better.
4. Subaru paint is softer than some other makes. A lot like Honda. It's easier to correct but it does build up spider webs and halos easier. A paint coating can help prevent that from occurring by adding a super hard and clear layer on top of the paint. If you're new to it, we can meet up at my place and use my detailing tools to correct the paint before applying a coating this summer.
5. The manual will recommend "checking" the rear differential oil at 30,000 miles. Instead, drain it at 15,000 miles and replace it with a full synthetic, then again at 30,000 miles. After that you can stick to a 30,000 mile schedule. Like all rear diffs, the fluid contaminates pretty quickly during break-in and waiting to 30,000 is a bit too long in my opinion.
6. Once you break it in a bit, find a parking lot after a good snow storm and let loose. I'm betting you'll be amazed at how well the Subaru AWD system and electronic nannies prevent you from getting too far out of control. And then after you're amazed, turn off all those nannies and really have some fun

Michaell

tyguy said:

Michaell said:

3% under invoice is $33,966 - I'm happy to round it up to an even $34K. If I include the dealer fee, then the offer drops to $33,500 ($499 dealer fee - ouch).

I will look into having a clear bra applied to protect the paint. We've had it on several cars in the past - always good to have, given that Colorado uses lots of gravel to deal with the snow.

Any other thoughts or suggestions? First time Subaru owner, so any tips would be appreciated.

I hear ya' about the Colorado gravel. That's exactly what I had in mind when I had clear bra applied to our Subies.

I do have a couple of other minor suggestions:
1. If you plan to use the cargo area for anything messy, the optional Subaru seat back protectors are very, very handy. They're inexpensive and add a cargo liner level of protection to prevent stains and tears. I was using our Outback to haul a door this week and those protectors saved the seats from damage by taking the abuse. Handy little things.
2. The splash guards aren't worth it. They're tiny and do very little to protect the vehicle.
3. Subaru's soft and grippy all weather mats are really nice under the feet, but they don't protect the carpet all that well. If you want to keep your carpet dry and clean, then the WeatherTech or Husky custom formed liners are much better.
4. Subaru paint is softer than some other makes. A lot like Honda. It's easier to correct but it does build up spider webs and halos easier. A paint coating can help prevent that from occurring by adding a super hard and clear layer on top of the paint. If you're new to it, we can meet up at my place and use my detailing tools to correct the paint before applying a coating this summer.
5. The manual will recommend "checking" the rear differential oil at 30,000 miles. Instead, drain it at 15,000 miles and replace it with a full synthetic, then again at 30,000 miles. After that you can stick to a 30,000 mile schedule. Like all rear diffs, the fluid contaminates pretty quickly during break-in and waiting to 30,000 is a bit too long in my opinion.
6. Once you break it in a bit, find a parking lot after a good snow storm and let loose. I'm betting you'll be amazed at how well the Subaru AWD system and electronic nannies prevent you from getting too far out of control. And then after you're amazed, turn off all those nannies and really have some fun

1. The car is equipped with the seat back protectors. They were in the car we test drove and the wife really liked them. We have the rear seats down a lot and it will be nice not to mar the carpet
2. Splash guards are also part of the car. We'll manage. The Mazda doesn't have anything and the sides get filthy.
3. We've used the WeatherTech floor mats in her last two cars - we may consider it for the Subaru as well
4. Road trip! I may have to take you up on that offer .. I've never been real good at waxing or other paint protection, but the wife has said she wants to keep this car for 15 years, so it may be worth the time and expense.
5. Do you do this yourself or have the dealer do it? I'm not much of a wrench, either.
6. That sounds like fun - though I'm not 100% certain the wife would agree.

verdugo

fezo said:

Hey, stick! We got screwed. Holman sold that one. At least they sold it before I asked as opposed to the other place. Am leaning to new. Would look about leasing then buying it. Have never done a lease. Will look about.

Having gone through the lease process right now, I like it when it makes sense.

I didn't have the full amount to pay cash, so I'd have to finance. Jeep was offering 0.9% for 36 months. The lease rate was half of that. I also don't drive a lot, got a 10,000 miles/year lease, which makes it cheaper. Finally, I like getting new cars.

I wouldn't have leased if the numbers didn't make sense though. Ask in the appropriate Edmunds forum to get the specific MF and residual numbers. It made a big difference for me. I saved $130/month compared to the dealer's first offer.

driver100

qbrozen said:

Well, the Leaf was one. It was actually my wife, not me. I never would have gotten that car for myself. It wasn't a bad car, as cars go. But she had too much range anxiety and refused to drive it. I turned it back in with I think 2-3 mos remaining just to get it out of my garage..

As for my '06 Accord... ). Seemed sporty, comfy, and a elegant on the test drive. Long-term ownership proved it to be otherwise. Extreme understeer when pushed hard, noisy, and uncomfortable for more than 90 mins at a time. That experience made me determine that Honda is very good at

As for that Mitsu.. She was going WAY over on the miles, was out of warranty, and I hated the car (hated driving it, riding in it, and working on it). .

I can understand how the Leaf would sound better in theory than in practice. When I hear people think they want one I really think....don't get something until it has been proven in the real world.

Accords should be good cars but long distance driving is different from a test drive. I like th eA4 but I wouldn't want to travel in it 1500 miles from Canada to Florida.

The Mitsu...well, if you don't like it not much you can do, especially if you can't turn it in with a penalty.

Those are reasons I find it hard to change brands...once I like a brand I am pretty sure it will be of a certain quality and standard. I wouldn't change unless there was a real reason to change...like, in the case of the A4.

nyccarguy

@Michaell‌

I've got the Subaru All Weather Floor Mats and am happy with them. I recently bought a set of HUSKY floor liners for my Dad's 2015 Tahoe and am really impressed with how well they fit and how much floor they cover. I think HUSKY makes a better product than weather tech. Much easier to deal with as well. Everything ships at the same time from the same place (WT has different factories & fulfillment centers around the country).

The AWD system is very sophisticated and works amazingly well, no matter what the road conditions. I'm pretty picky and can honestly say that I'm happy with my Legacy. I'd recommend a Subaru to anybody.

stickguy

Fezo, I did a spreadsheet when I was looking at leases. Made it handy to estimate payments, with the info from the fine hosts here. I added a piece for a buy vs. lease & buy-out at the end. That was illuminating.

but, if you are pretty sure that this is going to be a long term (10+ years) keeper, it most likely will be better to just buy it and take the cheap financing for 60 or 72 months. Largely because to get the cheap lease, they likely inflated the residual. So once you add in the buyout amount, the perceived savings may not be there. Plus you will still be paying the acquisition fee, so that is another $699 that could be applied to the down payment. And maybe the disposition fee (and anything else they hit you up for at the end).

and of course, you pay another round of DMV and doc fees, since it has to get re-registered.

funny thing, when I was in finance at the Hyundai dealer, I mentioned thinking about this option, and the finance car flat out said don't do it, because it almost never makes sense!

fezo

Thanks, Stick. There is a big part of me that wants to stay away from leases.

One place I emailed about a new one called me up. I told him the price I had on a new one already he's all over me that it can't be because the price is below invoice. I tell him that happens all the time and that I know a thing or two. He starts an "invoice is what we really pay" spiel and I said, look it's obvious I'm not buying from you. Have a nice day.

stickguy

just go to the place you got the great deal on the table from. Put it in ink, and get your wife the nice new wheels.

fezo

Our current likely candidates -

1 - http://sussmanhonda.com/Philadelphia/For-Sale/Used/Toyota/Prius/2011-5dr-HB-III-Silver-Car/34648569/

2 - http://sussmanhonda.com/Philadelphia/For-Sale/Used/Toyota/Prius/2011-5dr-HB-III-Silver-Car/34648569/

Have at it...

fezo

Oops! I hit the same car twice. Here's the other one - http://kennedyauto.com/Philadelphia/For-Sale/Used/Toyota/Prius/2010-IVFWD-Blue-Car/36946380/

driver100

fezo said:

Oops! I hit the same car twice. Here's the other one - http://kennedyauto.com/Philadelphia/For-Sale/Used/Toyota/Prius/2010-IVFWD-Blue-Car/36946380/

They both look pretty nice and prices are similar, though one is an 11 and one a 10.

So, fezo, have you actually driven a Prius or are you going by.....gut instinct? If you drove one what do you like about it? I'm wondering what the attraction is, since they seem so expensive.

I was a passenger in one in Vancouver, they use them a lot as taxi's there. They are unique, very large backseat area and a nice solid quiet ride. Not sure about actually driving one......

stickguy

the silver one might not be your color, but definitely looks like a better deal. newer, fresh sneakers, lower miles, and cheaper.

venture

fezo said:

Thanks, Stick. There is a big part of me that wants to stay away from leases.

One place I emailed about a new one called me up. I told him the price I had on a new one already he's all over me that it can't be because the price is below invoice. I tell him that happens all the time and that I know a thing or two. He starts an "invoice is what we really pay" spiel and I said, look it's obvious I'm not buying from you. Have a nice day.

Heh heh. When I was buying my Fusion I told the guy I would give him invoice for his car if he gave me what I wanted for my car.

He said, "Yes, I'll sell you the Fusion for what we paid for it." I replied, "For what you paid for it or at invoice?"

He suddenly looked like the cat that ate the canary and quietly said, "At invoice."

verdugo

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell‌

I think HUSKY makes a better product than weather tech. Much easier to deal with as well. Everything ships at the same time from the same place (WT has different factories & fulfillment centers around the country).

I had Weathertec in my old Grand Cherokee, but I bought Husky's X-act Contour for the new one after reading reviews on another forum.

I like that the Husky has a higher edge than the WT and that it feels less slippery than the WT.

Michaell

verdugo said:

nyccarguy said:

@Michaell‌

I think HUSKY makes a better product than weather tech. Much easier to deal with as well. Everything ships at the same time from the same place (WT has different factories & fulfillment centers around the country).

I had Weathertec in my old Grand Cherokee, but I bought Husky's X-act Contour for the new one after reading reviews on another forum.

I like that the Husky has a higher edge than the WT and that it feels less slippery than the WT.

Timely discussion about the mats. Wife called me this morning, asking that I look into getting all weather mats for the daughters MINI - it only came with the carpeted mats.

She wants WT but now I'm going to look at the Husky brand as well.

fezo

It's cheaper but it's a III and the other is a IV. Better niceties. Upgraded stereo, leather, heated front seats, things like that. I'm seeing id I can get them to come down the $700 on the blue one. If not the grey one goes into play. I don't care too much leather or cloth is fine and with cloth the lack of heated seats isn't the issue it is with leather. I'd miss the upgraded stereo though... I mean at times the car itself is virtually silent so you want good sound...

I've got a few hooks in the water one of them will bite.

Driver - we did a pretty extensive test drive. Highway, back streets, twisty roads - the car holds its own and is amazingly quiet. Tons of both passenger room and cargo space. It won't beat many off the line - 0 - 60 in 9 seconds but playing the how much can I squeeze out of a gallon of gas trick is very entertaining. If I'm just poking in my neighborhood I wouldn't need gas at all.

stever

My wife wants the V. Well the five in a V. Something like that. The Prii naming conventions are as bad as they get.

Michaell

stever said:

My wife wants the V. Well the five in a V. Something like that. The Prii naming conventions are as bad as they get.

Wouldn't that be a "Prius V V"?

imidazol97

Michaell said:

stever said:

My wife wants the V. Well the five in a V. Something like that. The Prii naming conventions are as bad as they get.

Wouldn't that be a "Prius V V"?

Maybe a Prius 5 V as opposed to a 4 V or a 5 IV? LOL

I tried looking up a used Prius 4 for Fezo in this area.
Whichever was the category of the red 2012. Some autotrader
listings were clear as to which option package was on the
particular model. Looks like Fezo could fly into Dayton
International Airport, buy a new car he wants in the area and
drive back to his home happy as a lark.

nyccarguy

@fezo‌

I think my Legacy is rated at 0 - 60 in the high 8 sec or low 9 sec range. It isn't a rocket, but it is far from a slug. There used to be a guy that posted here @ateixeria who said the Prius is not a slow car. It might have slow drivers, but the car will go if you stomp on it.

stickguy

What ever happened to Juice?

stever

Mostly his work firewalled "outside" sites, and he's doing a lot of stuff with kids. @rsholland gives the Crew an update on Juice now and then.

imidazol97

nyccarguy said:

said the Prius is not a slow car. It might have slow drivers, but the car will go if you stomp on it.

Zero to 60 is not really where most people need acceleration. It's more like 40-60. Some
cars can really dig out at the zero end but it's that ability to speed up to merge
that can disappoint.

If you need speed, the McLaren 360S I posted does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Should be able to fit into any opening on a busy expressway merge. :grin

Michaell

Well, the Husky site wouldn''t allow me to pull the specific make / model, so I ordered the mats from WT.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

stever said:

My wife wants the V. Well the five in a V. Something like that. The Prii naming conventions are as bad as they get.

Wouldn't that be a "Prius V V"?

Prius X

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

stever said:

My wife wants the V. Well the five in a V. Something like that. The Prii naming conventions are as bad as they get.

Wouldn't that be a "Prius V V"?

Prius X

Or Prius XXV (if you square the V)

qbrozen

ha! thought of that same thing.

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

nyccarguy said:

said the Prius is not a slow car. It might have slow drivers, but the car will go if you stomp on it.

Zero to 60 is not really where most people need acceleration. It's more like 40-60. Some
cars can really dig out at the zero end but it's that ability to speed up to merge
that can disappoint.

If you need speed, the McLaren 360S I posted does 0-60 in 3 seconds.
Should be able to fit into any opening on a busy expressway merge. :grin

Midrange acceleration is where my Mazdaspeed really shines; 50-70 in 6th gear only takes 6.7 seconds. With my intake and tune that drops to 5.9. The only reason to downshift above 50 mph is to totally humiliate someone in a "faster" car...

[Deleted User]

Michaell said:

4. Road trip! I may have to take you up on that offer .. I've never been real good at waxing or other paint protection, but the wife has said she wants to keep this car for 15 years, so it may be worth the time and expense.
5. Do you do this yourself or have the dealer do it? I'm not much of a wrench, either.

I'd be happy to help with the paint work. I have a dual action rotary polisher that will remove swirls and other defects before locking in the paint with a coating. Once the coating is on you can go two or three years with just normal washes and still protect the paint as if it was freshly waxed. Paint coatings are changing the detailing world. It needs to be done right, though, so working with someone who's had experience is a big plus.

I do my own wrenching as well. The Subaru rear differentials are a breeze, even easier than an oil change. There's a drain plug and a fill plug, and they're both easily accessed without ramps or lifts due to our Outbacks' tall clearance. You remove both, re-install the drain plug with a new washer, pump in fresh gear oil through the fill hole until it's flowing out the hole, then re-install the fill plug with a gasket. When you get to that point, and if you decide to try it yourself, give me a heads-up and we can meet up.

Good luck with the purchase! I hope everything goes according to plan.

[Deleted User]

Michaell said:

Well, the Husky site wouldn''t allow me to pull the specific make / model, so I ordered the mats from WT.

I have the WT installed and love them. Great protection and grippy when they're wet.

Michaell

tyguy said:

Michaell said:

4. Road trip! I may have to take you up on that offer .. I've never been real good at waxing or other paint protection, but the wife has said she wants to keep this car for 15 years, so it may be worth the time and expense.
5. Do you do this yourself or have the dealer do it? I'm not much of a wrench, either.

I'd be happy to help with the paint work. I have a dual action rotary polisher that will remove swirls and other defects before locking in the paint with a coating. Once the coating is on you can go two or three years with just normal washes and still protect the paint as if it was freshly waxed. Paint coatings are changing the detailing world. It needs to be done right, though, so working with someone who's had experience is a big plus.

I do my own wrenching as well. The Subaru rear differentials are a breeze, even easier than an oil change. There's a drain plug and a fill plug, and they're both easily accessed without ramps or lifts due to our Outbacks' tall clearance. You remove both, re-install the drain plug with a new washer, pump in fresh gear oil through the fill hole until it's flowing out the hole, then re-install the fill plug with a gasket. When you get to that point, and if you decide to try it yourself, give me a heads-up and we can meet up.

Good luck with the purchase! I hope everything goes according to plan.

The paint protectant is something I feel confident about .. the rear diff work is another story. But, if I can convince the wife that with an expert watching over me I can do this and save a trip to the dealer, perhaps.

If the deal happens next week, I'd like to find a Saturday where I could come up and do the paint sealant.