Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Plastic bags are a pretty big expense for retailers. As much as there is a “green” aspect to it I am sure any retailer that drops them instantly adds to the bottom line.

Plastic costs me 1.3 cents retail. Paper will cost me 5 times that plus the five cent tax. Not a big expense but combine it with all the other regulatory costs and taxes imposed on my business and my profit is nil.

They say that big business loves over regulation because it kills off competition.

ab348

When my employer was buying them in bulk, plastic was costing us $0.008 apiece (we did something like 18 million transactions a year though obvs. not all of those resulted in a bag being used). Paper was 4 or 5 times more expensive and far less good for the intended purpose. We managed to annoy our customers twice too - before we left plastic entirely, the marketing mavens decided to change to an opaque white plastic bag because it let them print our logo on it in full color. Prior to that we used a transparent blue plastic bag which was very popular as many people used it to put out their recyclables.

driver100

ab348 said:

When my employer was buying them in bulk, plastic was costing us $0.008 apiece (we did something like 18 million transactions a year though obvs. not all of those resulted in a bag being used). Paper was 4 or 5 times more expensive and far less good for the intended purpose.

The way I look at it is don't see it as 18 million transactions. See it as one transaction, 1 plastic bag costs .008 cents, biodegradable bags may cost 50% more....not a big extra cost per transaction. If customers ask, it is nice being able to tell them our plastic bags are biodegradable - and we are doing our bit.

I don't get overly concerned about these things....because we will find ways to solve these problems. These guys have developed biodegradable bags that will only cost a fraction more than plastic bags. CycleWood’s bags are expected to cost roughly 1.5 cents per unit compared with 1.2 cents for traditional plastic bags, which could become more expensive amid rising oil prices.
Cyclewood Biodegradable Plastic Bags
We usually come up with solutions....where there is a WILL, money, there is a way to solve the problem.

dino001

oldfarmer50 said:

They say that big business loves over regulation because it kills off competition.

This is part many people don’t understand. Big regulation is a variable cost, but with diminishing with volume, i.e. compliance costs large company much less in proportion to its sales than a small one, which means high regulation generally means advantage to large established players. It is always sold as protection of a little guy, but in the long run it always protects the big one even more. However, it needs also be said that small business is not as benovelent as many people would like us to believe. Sometimes you just need to tell people they can’t dump s$#@t to the ground water and air no matter how small or large they are.

ab348

driver100 said:

These guys have developed biodegradable bags that will only cost a fraction more than plastic bags. CycleWood’s bags are expected to cost roughly 1.5 cents per unit compared with 1.2 cents for traditional plastic bags, which could become more expensive amid rising oil prices.
Cyclewood Biodegradable Plastic Bags
We usually come up with solutions....where there is a WILL, money, there is a way to solve the problem.

You must have missed my post where I said that those kind of bags are banned here because they do not compost fast enough in our municipal facilities. Apparently they make compost out of beef and chicken bones in 30 days.

https://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/how-halifax-composts-50000-tonnes-of-material-a-year/Content?oid=22662995

When I was traveling a few years ago I got a few of those bags with purchases and brought them home. Coincidentally I used one for storing some printed material I picked up on the trip. A year ago I dug it out after not touching the bag for 5 years and it dissolved into tiny little bits when you tried to pick it up. Made a real mess! Even the Dyson vacuum had trouble picking all that up.

imidazol97

The reusable bags have handles that start coming off after they're laundered using soap and bleach that goes into the waste treatment plant stream to pollute the waterways. We've had a few for years because my wife liked that she could have more in one than in a couple plastic bags at Kroger.

The problem with the green folks is they don't include the total cost in estimating the "savings." Example is the government subsidy for solar cells and windmills aren't included in the usual examples of cost, making them much more expensive than the current fuels. We just went through this with the cancellation of mandated large increases in fees in electric bills solely to subsidize solar cells in Ohio. Oh the squeaky wheels trying to be so loud.

Paper bags are renewable materials. They decompose. I recall when the control folks demanded plastic bags because paper bags were killing trees. The free market and common sense folks usually end up with answers if big government doesn't get to interfere.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

bwia said:

Oops! I believe @abacomike can be forgiven since he lives in a condo and probably does not have the setup for fast charging.

You are correct, bwia! I have no way to charge an EV. I would consider one if I could easily charge the batteries.

You should be able to put up one of these. And have it provide enough charge for the amount of driving you do typically, with the winds caused by the ocean nearby.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

When my employer was buying them in bulk, plastic was costing us $0.008 apiece (we did something like 18 million transactions a year though obvs. not all of those resulted in a bag being used). Paper was 4 or 5 times more expensive and far less good for the intended purpose.

The way I look at it is don't see it as 18 million transactions. See it as one transaction, 1 plastic bag costs .008 cents, biodegradable bags may cost 50% more....not a big extra cost per transaction. If customers ask, it is nice being able to tell them our plastic bags are biodegradable - and we are doing our bit.

I don't get overly concerned about these things....because we will find ways to solve these problems. These guys have developed biodegradable bags that will only cost a fraction more than plastic bags. CycleWood’s bags are expected to cost roughly 1.5 cents per unit compared with 1.2 cents for traditional plastic bags, which could become more expensive amid rising oil prices.
Cyclewood Biodegradable Plastic Bags
We usually come up with solutions....where there is a WILL, money, there is a way to solve the problem.

Those biodegradable bags would still be illegal in NY because, in my opinion, it’s not about the environment. It’s about power, and control while pandering to certain voter demographics.

oldfarmer50

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

They say that big business loves over regulation because it kills off competition.

This is part many people don’t understand. Big regulation is a variable cost, but with diminishing with volume, i.e. compliance costs large company much less in proportion to its sales than a small one, which means high regulation generally means advantage to large established players. It is always sold as protection of a little guy, but in the long run it always protects the big one even more. However, it needs also be said that small business is not as benovelent as many people would like us to believe. Sometimes you just need to tell people they can’t dump s$#@t to the ground water and air no matter how small or large they are.

Oh believe me I understand what you’re saying. Personally, I recycle plastic bags and I’ve adapted to stores where they’re not provided.

But sometimes regulations seem almost punitive, like the EPA making me post worker protection pesticide warnings in my barn and keep records of worker safety training even though I don’t have any employees and don’t use pesticides.

I still remember when I wanted to hang a sign from a tree for my folding table vegetables stand and was ordered by the town to hire a surveyor to document that the sign was so many feet from the “legal” edge of the road. When I protested about the regulatory over-kill the bureaucrat said “well Walmart has to do the same thing”.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

They say that big business loves over regulation because it kills off competition.

This is part many people don’t understand. Big regulation is a variable cost, but with diminishing with volume, i.e. compliance costs large company much less in proportion to its sales than a small one, which means high regulation generally means advantage to large established players. It is always sold as protection of a little guy, but in the long run it always protects the big one even more. However, it needs also be said that small business is not as benovelent as many people would like us to believe. Sometimes you just need to tell people they can’t dump s$#@t to the ground water and air no matter how small or large they are.

Oh believe me I understand what you’re saying. Personally, I recycle plastic bags and I’ve adapted to stores where they’re not provided.

But sometimes regulations seem almost punitive, like the EPA making me post worker protection pesticide warnings in my barn and keep records of worker safety training even though I don’t have any employees and don’t use pesticides.

I still remember when I wanted to hang a sign from a tree for my folding table vegetables stand and was ordered by the town to hire a surveyor to document that the sign was so many feet from the “legal” edge of the road. When I protested about the regulatory over-kill the bureaucrat said “well Walmart has to do the same thing”.

Sounds like someone's BIL or cousin is a surveyor.

jmonroe

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

These guys have developed biodegradable bags that will only cost a fraction more than plastic bags. CycleWood’s bags are expected to cost roughly 1.5 cents per unit compared with 1.2 cents for traditional plastic bags, which could become more expensive amid rising oil prices.
Cyclewood Biodegradable Plastic Bags
We usually come up with solutions....where there is a WILL, money, there is a way to solve the problem.

You must have missed my post where I said that those kind of bags are banned here because they do not compost fast enough in our municipal facilities. Apparently they make compost out of beef and chicken bones in 30 days.

https://www.thecoast.ca/halifax/how-halifax-composts-50000-tonnes-of-material-a-year/Content?oid=22662995
.

I think you are saying the plastic in your city has to disintegrate in 30 days, biodegradable bags can take 180 days to biodegrade. Back home, we put out plastic bags in a separate bag....they can be recycled. If your city doesn't do that many stores have a bag return bin.

When they are recycled plastic bags and wraps can made into plastic lumber that is used to make park benches, backyard decks and fences – even playground equipment. They also can be recycled into new plastic bags – and then recycled again.

Almost every problem has a solution......the easy way out is to just ban them - try to make themselves look like they are being proactive!

suydam

We can’t recycle plastic bags as China is no longer accepting them. And no plastic that has ever had food in it. Tote bags do not have much of a cost — I just throw them in occasionally with my regular laundry. I don’t use bleach. All of mine have lasted for years, so that’s how many plastic bags I didn’t need to use? I think I’ve had one bag’s handles break. It’s kind of weird the excuses people come up with when in my opinion tote and mesh bags are actually sturdier and superior to cheap plastic bags. Some green practices are much harder and i am slow to adopt some of them, but these changes are easy.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

dino001 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

They say that big business loves over regulation because it kills off competition.

This is part many people don’t understand. Big regulation is a variable cost, but with diminishing with volume, i.e. compliance costs large company much less in proportion to its sales than a small one, which means high regulation generally means advantage to large established players. It is always sold as protection of a little guy, but in the long run it always protects the big one even more. However, it needs also be said that small business is not as benovelent as many people would like us to believe. Sometimes you just need to tell people they can’t dump s$#@t to the ground water and air no matter how small or large they are.

But sometimes regulations seem almost punitive, like the EPA making me post worker protection pesticide warnings in my barn and keep records of worker safety training even though I don’t have any employees and don’t use pesticides.

When we had our warehouse we had peaked at about 15 employees. One day a small business association came in and told me if I didn't hang up an official notice about employees rights I could be fined $25000. I hung up the notice immediately, but, how could I possibly know this rule even existed? When we incorporated there was an extra license you are supposed to obtain. No one tells me, so I had to pay $50 late fee for not getting a $100 license. It is hard enough just running your business without trying to figure out how they will try to get you anyway they can.

driver100

suydam said:

We can’t recycle plastic bags as China is no longer accepting them. And no plastic that has ever had food in it. Tote bags do not have much of a cost — I just throw them in occasionally with my regular laundry. I don’t use bleach. All of mine have lasted for years, so that’s how many plastic bags I didn’t need to use? I think I’ve had one bag’s handles break. It’s kind of weird the excuses people come up with when in my opinion tote and mesh bags are actually sturdier and superior to cheap plastic bags. Some green practices are much harder and i am slow to adopt some of them, but these changes are easy.

Tote bags could be made by illegal child workers working in 3rd world countries
Then there is all the processing and growing needed to make the cotton or whatever.
We recycle plastic bags back home...in Florida they accept them at Publix.

ab348

driver100 said:

I think you are saying the plastic in your city has to disintegrate in 30 days, biodegradable bags can take 180 days to biodegrade. Back home, we put out plastic bags in a separate bag....they can be recycled. If your city doesn't do that many stores have a bag return bin.

When they are recycled plastic bags and wraps can made into plastic lumber that is used to make park benches, backyard decks and fences – even playground equipment. They also can be recycled into new plastic bags – and then recycled again.

Almost every problem has a solution......the easy way out is to just ban them - try to make themselves look like they are being proactive!

We have been recycling them for 20 years. Originally it was a boondoggle pushed by the enviro activists because there was no market for them and many were secretly landfilled, with no consequence to those responsible for lying to the public. Then China started taking them until a couple of years ago when they refused to do so any longer. But by then there were markets for them locally as I posted, making plastic lumber and other things. Plus many bags were made with recycled plastic anyway - the Sobeys chain that is getting rid of them next week used bags that contained 30% recycled plastic. But none of that mattered as the govt listened to the social media noise that they were killing turtles in the Pacific Rim and banned them.

pensfan83

Doing away with plastic bags is low hanging fruit for retailers and grocers. As was noted earlier in the conversation there is still the matter of all the plastics used by the bakery, produce, deli, etc.

28firefighter

Rest In Peace, Kobe Bryant. Wow.

driver100

It makes me glad I don't have a company any more. Imagine, everyone wants plastic bags, you make a company that sells plastic bags, you employ 100s maybe 1000s of people, and then the government wants to ban your product. They have nothing to lose, meanwhile your livelihood and the livelihood of your employees is taken away.....no working to phase out or grandfather in.....and their plan usually backfires.

tjc78

28firefighter said:

Rest In Peace, Kobe Bryant. Wow.

Stunner for sure.

pensfan83

I thought it was a joke at first...now news is coming out his 13 y/o daughter was on board. So very sad for all of the families affected.

qbrozen

Anybody have suggestions on touring Alaska? I thought maybe a cruise would be the way to go, although I had previously sworn off cruises. But, as some probably know, the advertised low prices seem to be all BS. Lowest I have found so far would be around $4500 for the 4 of us, not including airfare, which is at least another $1200. $6k for a vacation is a bit rich for us.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

Anybody have suggestions on touring Alaska? I thought maybe a cruise would be the way to go, although I had previously sworn off cruises. But, as some probably know, the advertised low prices seem to be all BS. Lowest I have found so far would be around $4500 for the 4 of us, not including airfare, which is at least another $1200. $6k for a vacation is a bit rich for us.

I’m sure more experienced folks can give feedback, but the challenging piece with Alaska is that not all parts of it are accessible by car, hence why cruising is so popular. You really want to get an opportunity to see the glaciers which are most accessible by boat.

You can do an Alaska cruise cheaper if you go in May or September at the beginning or end of the season. Peak rates are late June to early August. It’s still not cheap.

stickguy

just fly up to Anchorage, have XWesX pick you up, and stay with him for a week!

carnaught

Several small to medium size ships and cruise-lines do the Alaska cruise, round trip from Seattle or Vancouver, many of which are 7 day duration. Another option is a longer trip further north where you can go to Denali and usually these are 10 days or longer and often one way, flying back after a 4.5 hrs. car trip Anchorage. The 7-day I took went from Seattle to Juneau, Glacier Bay, Ketchikan, Sitka and Victoria, then back to Seattle. Very nice trip.

cdnpinhead

The Alaska State Ferries are what the locals use to get to and fro and offer a number of advantages over the cattle call cruise ships. A trip combining a ferry journey with a rental vehicle could be one solution. I've driven to AK twice and sailed to SE AK (Ketchikan, Wrangell) on my own 32 foot boat back in the '70s. It's a beautiful place, and the people up there are a breed of their own -- much more to my liking than those I've dealt with down here.

YMMV.

graphicguy

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Anybody have suggestions on touring Alaska? I thought maybe a cruise would be the way to go, although I had previously sworn off cruises. But, as some probably know, the advertised low prices seem to be all BS. Lowest I have found so far would be around $4500 for the 4 of us, not including airfare, which is at least another $1200. $6k for a vacation is a bit rich for us.

Three words: Alcan Winter Rally

stickguy

do it old school. The Iditarod.

ab348

graphicguy said:

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

As I’ve posted before I seem allergic to Nav systems so take this in that context, but I’ve never seen one with that sort of look before. Seems almost cartoonish.

jmonroe

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

As I’ve posted before I seem allergic to Nav systems so take this in that context, but I’ve never seen one with that sort of look before. Seems almost cartoonish.

Well, that's what NAV systems look like today. And that is where you view the highly coveted back up display, great invention.

jmonroe

stickguy

that looks good though. A lot like google maps. Even better than my Sonata, which was still light years better than the TLX.

abacomike

Speaking of NAV/GPS systems, I was driving north on I-95 Thursday when all of a sudden, my voice control system (female voice) alerts me that, "...there is a vehicular accident ahead - exit at Sample Road to avoid delays!"

That was mind boggling to me - totally unexpected. Interestingly, my GPS was not active at the time. I wonder how that was initiated and how that thing works.

abacomike

Kobe Bryant's death was a tremendous shock to me. I used to live about a mile from where the helicopter crashed near Calabasas. That is northwest of LA not far from Ventura Highway (101) and the Pacific Coast Highway. What a shame - and his 13 year old daughter was on board. RIP Kobe and daughter. 😩

snakeweasel

qbrozen said:

Anybody have suggestions on touring Alaska? I thought maybe a cruise would be the way to go, although I had previously sworn off cruises. But, as some probably know, the advertised low prices seem to be all BS. Lowest I have found so far would be around $4500 for the 4 of us, not including airfare, which is at least another $1200. $6k for a vacation is a bit rich for us.

Well I took a two year trip to Alaska on my Uncle Sam's dime, but I dont think that's what you want.

driver100

GG, I like that GPS image....looks clear and bright....pretty near idiot proof. If you can't make out what is happening with that set up you should hand in your license.

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

reminds me of Ye Ole Tom Tom.

ab348

driver100 said:

GG, I like that GPS image....looks clear and bright....pretty near idiot proof. If you can't make out what is happening with that set up you should hand in your license.

How does the map on the left relate to the image on the right? They do not look like they are referring to the same spot.

See, I told you I was allergic. These systems always seem to confuse me.

cdnpinhead

"Kobe Bryant's death was a tremendous shock to me."

Karma's a b**ch. That thing that happened in Colorado back in '03 has been forgotten (or never heard of) by nearly everyone in the important parts of the country/world. Behaviour that's accepted in LA or NYC isn't necessarily well thought of in flyover country.

suydam

Um, this is no time to bring up these things, especially given the fact that his 13 year old daughter, her teammate and her parents, as well 4 other people have also died. Mourning the loss has nothing to do with the sins or the triumphs of his personal life.

fintail

Looks nice and high res, like the Germans use, and like Toyota still doesn't seem to grasp.

Now only if they could have integrated it into the dash instead of using the tablet look, which is going to be passe in about 5 minutes.

graphicguy said:

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

fintail

Not sure how that's karma, or how anyone who knows the definition of karma could claim so, but OK something.

Flyover country has plenty of similar problems, and is far from a high ground of moral fortitude.

cdnpinhead said:

Karma's a b**ch. That thing that happened in Colorado back in '03 has been forgotten (or never heard of) by nearly everyone in the important parts of the country/world. Behaviour that's accepted in LA or NYC isn't necessarily well thought of in flyover country.

abacomike

fintail said:

Not sure how that's karma, or how anyone who knows the definition of karma could claim so, but OK something.

Flyover country has plenty of similar problems, and is far from a high ground of moral fortitude.

cdnpinhead said:

Karma's a b**ch. That thing that happened in Colorado back in '03 has been forgotten (or never heard of) by nearly everyone in the important parts of the country/world. Behaviour that's accepted in LA or NYC isn't necessarily well thought of in flyover country.

What a great athlete does in his/her private life always impacts on how people view that individual. Same as how people view great philanthropists, Presidents, business moguls, medical researchers, physicists, etc., to name a few.

An example would be Tiger Woods - I consider him the greatest golfer who ever lived and respect him for his accomplishments and abilities. But I don't respect him for some, not all, of his off-the-course behaviors. I certainly would not consider Karma as a rationale if he was killed in an accident.

qbrozen

The worst part is the kids being on there. Just tragic.

But why the hell are you flying to an away kids’ basketball game anyway? Geesh.

What I find ironic, though, is all the people who are saying things like “I don’t want to talk about what a great athlete he was, but rather what a good person.” Yet, if he wasn’t a famous athlete, this would have near zero media coverage and none of these other famous people would be talking about it.

driver100

fintail said:

Looks nice and high res, like the Germans use, and like Toyota still doesn't seem to grasp.

Now only if they could have integrated it into the dash instead of using the tablet look, which is going to be passe in about 5 minutes.

graphicguy said:

Went to lunch with my son today. He snapped a pic of the Stinger’s GPS system. I usually use Apple CarPlay. Gotta admit, Kia’s looks pretty good.

I agree about building the GPS into the dash. I don't get that tablet look at all......though if I liked everything else about the car I could learn to live with it....especially if it had a backup camera.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

GG, I like that GPS image....looks clear and bright....pretty near idiot proof. If you can't make out what is happening with that set up you should hand in your license.

How does the map on the left relate to the image on the right? They do not look like they are referring to the same spot.

Really good question. My guess is this is just an illustration to show there are two screens, someone forgot they should be of the same view.....but, just a guess.

driver100

This one stands out!



I like the white more, but it is different!

graphicguy

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

GG, I like that GPS image....looks clear and bright....pretty near idiot proof. If you can't make out what is happening with that set up you should hand in your license.

How does the map on the left relate to the image on the right? They do not look like they are referring to the same spot.

See, I told you I was allergic. These systems always seem to confuse me.

The smaller map on the left is an overview of where I was on the road, which was NORWOOD LATERAL EXPRESSWAY. The big illustration on the right was showing where my exit was for my route. Snappy, accurate, and actually the Nav voice calls out the name of the streets or interstate vs “take the next right”.

@abacomike ...I know the Nav in the Stinger will call out where police are, accidents are, and where there is construction or backups (offering an alternative route). WAZE on my phone will do the same thing. I think it’s becoming sort of standard with today’s more modern NAV systems.

That said, my Acura’s NAV will not do that.

stickguy

It notes on the right side blow up what the exit looks like, and that it is .7 miles ahead. Great for knowing what lane to be in.

driver100

I just looked at that picture of the Stinger again....kinda looks like a big Salmon in that color.

Thanks for the explanation of the GPS GG, it seems to be as current as can be. GPS systems have come a long ways in a few years. The WAZE maps with police sightings and accidents have made the technology to leap ahead quickly....and street names are a huge plus.

stickguy

I think the tablet look is partly trendy style (looking like an iPad), but there is a functional reason. Makes the center of the dash much less bulky, while getting the screen up higher more in the line of sight. Better than having to look down to see it. And if you put it up high but make it look built into the dash, you would get a big hump there to get around it.

The look doesn’t really bother me. Still looks better than the new MB panel IMO!