Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

Stever, I read his post re: the BMW vs. the Forester and when I was done, I decided to let others respond who have more experience with those models (but really it's patience that is needed - I'm fresh out of that personality trait for today)!

stever

Just like a Kenmore washer, often a rebadged Whirlpool. I had an old Sears loom for a few months that was a rebrand. Sears really did sell a bit of everything.

explorerx4

Sears even used to sell these:
http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1908-1914.htm

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

Sears even used to sell these: http://www.searsarchives.com/homes/1908-1914.htm

And my great grandparents who were born in the 1850's in Washington D.C. and New York City used to use the pages from the Sears Catalogs for a substitute for toilet paper when they ran out of the latter.

Sears used to sell just about everything a human being wanted or needed back in the early years of the Sears-Roebuck Company.

ab348

stickguy said:

I got same message. Probably because it is out of canada.

Must be, since I was able to watch it fine. I would have thought CBC would want people in other places to watch their stuff. Hmm.

Basically it concluded that all the major appliance makers are putting out lousy quality right now. They said that the average life of a stove or refrigerator now is 12 years before it needs replacement due to economically unfeasible repair requirements, with a bunch of repair visits during that time. They had a couple of repair guys telling their experiences and talking to customers with bad machines. Not very encouraging.

abacomike

ab348 said:

I got same message. Probably because it is out of canada.

Must be, since I was able to watch it fine. I would have thought CBC would want people in other places to watch their stuff. Hmm. Basically it concluded that all the major appliance makers are putting out lousy quality right now. They said that the average life of a stove or refrigerator now is 12 years before it needs replacement due to economically unfeasible repair requirements, with a bunch of repair visits during that time. They had a couple of repair guys telling their experiences and talking to customers with bad machines. Not very encouraging.

Planned obsolescence to the nth degree!!!

robr2

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

I got same message. Probably because it is out of canada.

Must be, since I was able to watch it fine. I would have thought CBC would want people in other places to watch their stuff. Hmm.

Basically it concluded that all the major appliance makers are putting out lousy quality right now. They said that the average life of a stove or refrigerator now is 12 years before it needs replacement due to economically unfeasible repair requirements, with a bunch of repair visits during that time. They had a couple of repair guys telling their experiences and talking to customers with bad machines. Not very encouraging.

12 years makes sense since the average American moves every 7 years and don't take the appliances.

stickguy

the appliance store people will tell you that. New fridges are vastly more efficient and feature laden, but won't last forever like the old energy sucking beasts.

I can live with the lifespan, if it is reliable up until it dies. Frequent repairs drives me nuts. That is why we ditched our prior side by side. Got tired of having to fix it.

berri

Refrigerators now mean Chinese compressors - ain't gonna last!

abacomike

berri said:

Refrigerators now mean Chinese compressors - ain't gonna last!

I would never KNOWINGLY buy anything made in China.  Come to think of it, my iPhone was probably/definitely made in China!  I read and hear about how the Chinese manufactured products are less than acceptably made.  I just saw "60 Minutes" a few weeks ago where it was found that flooring made for a huge flooring company had poisonous levels of formalgahide In the gluing process.  And what about the plaster wall board that was imported from China and installed in many U.S. Homes that became so moldy that houses had to be completely gutted - and that didn't solve the problem.

And yet yet we buy so much from China because of the cheap labor costs.

I wonder how long it will take China to start selling cars in this country.  Can you imagine the problems that would surface?

stickguy

China isn't that simple. They can build good stuff. If you want to pay for it.

I saw the flooring expose. I remember one of the makers when asked said that yes, they make flooring that meets the standards. It just costs more. and LL wanted the cheap stuff.

I'm sure there are buyers that get ripped off out of China, but I would bet that the vast majority know exactly what they are getting, and that is what they want to pay for.

[Deleted User]

abacomike said:

I wonder how long it will take China to start selling cars in this country.  Can you imagine the problems that would surface?

This year. The Volvo S60L, a Chinese built long wheelbase of the S60, will be hitting our shores in low volume.

fezo

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality.

The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter.....

I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

abacomike

fezo said:

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality. The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter..... I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

Congratulations on your 3rd birthday, fez.  We've all followed your trials and tribulations regarding your hospitalizations and your lab results.  It's an honor to know you!

abacomike

tyguy said:

I wonder how long it will take China to start selling cars in this country.  Can you imagine the problems that would surface?

This year. The Volvo S60L, a Chinese built long wheelbase of the S60, will be hitting our shores in low volume.

God help us all!

stickguy

good news Fez. I know from personal experience how nice it is when you forget about the dark days, and just get to act "normal".

suydam

Congratulations! I recently celebrated the third anniversary of my kidney transplant. I also refer to that day as my birthday. It's a miracle every day.

abacomike

Congrats - I wish you many more "ALIVE DAYS" as I do fezo!

robr2

tyguy said:

abacomike said:

I wonder how long it will take China to start selling cars in this country.  Can you imagine the problems that would surface?

This year. The Volvo S60L, a Chinese built long wheelbase of the S60, will be hitting our shores in low volume.

And Honda has been selling Chinese made fits in Canada for 2 years.

As noted, China makes what they are told to make by their customers. I've sold plenty of Chinese made product that was specified to a high standard. It cost more to make - it's that simple.

driver100

fezo said:

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality.

The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter.....

I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

Happy Birthday Fezo!

The comments about things built in China are about the same as the comments made about cars from Japan in the early years....like made from soup cans, ha ha.

Who had a bad experience at Dicks and what happened?

We hit the road in less than an hour.....1500 miles, 24 hours of driving time!

houdini1

2016 Nissan Maxima

Just looked at some pics of this car. For the life of me I can't understand how or why they would come up with this styling. Probably a good car, but to me, just plain ugly.

imidazol97

stever said:

Just like a Kenmore washer, often a rebadged Whirlpool. I had an old Sears loom for a few months that was a rebrand. Sears really did sell a bit of everything.

The bad thing about Sears and their rebadging of products from know, trusted manufacturers was that Sears
would change the fitting for the consumable replacement parts. So you couldn't buy the replacement that fit the original item--the replacement had to be from Sears.

I had bought some yard machine decades back and found that so I said "No more Sears."

Michaell

driver100 said:

fezo said:

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality.

The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter.....

I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

Happy Birthday Fezo!

The comments about things built in China are about the same as the comments made about cars from Japan in the early years....like made from soup cans, ha ha.

Who had a bad experience at Dicks and what happened?

We hit the road in less than an hour.....1500 miles, 24 hours of driving time!

I'm sure you're on the road, but have a safe drive back. My boss did the drive last weekend - well, most of it. They drove from Florida to Connecticut, and are now in the middle of a two week European vacation. When they return to NY, they'll complete the drive back to Ottawa.

driver100

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

fezo said:

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality.

The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter.....

I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

Happy Birthday Fezo!

The comments about things built in China are about the same as the comments made about cars from Japan in the early years....like made from soup cans, ha ha.

Who had a bad experience at Dicks and what happened?

We hit the road in less than an hour.....1500 miles, 24 hours of driving time!

I'm sure you're on the road, but have a safe drive back. My boss did the drive last weekend - well, most of it. They drove from Florida to Connecticut, and are now in the middle of a two week European vacation. When they return to NY, they'll complete the drive back to Ottawa.

Now that's a good way to break up the trip!

Sometime we would like to make stops along the way back (Dollyland?)......but it is difficult to do with Gigi.

Closing down the laptop, and we're on the road again.............

Michaell

driver100 said:

Michaell said:

driver100 said:

fezo said:

You can't get away from stuff made in China. Business keeps going for cost over quality.

The one thing of real quality that I've experienced coming from China is my youngest daughter.....

I think this is a good sign - I, and everyone else, missed my third second birthday, which is to say the transplant was three years ago March 28. I guess that worked.

Happy Birthday Fezo!

The comments about things built in China are about the same as the comments made about cars from Japan in the early years....like made from soup cans, ha ha.

Who had a bad experience at Dicks and what happened?

We hit the road in less than an hour.....1500 miles, 24 hours of driving time!

I'm sure you're on the road, but have a safe drive back. My boss did the drive last weekend - well, most of it. They drove from Florida to Connecticut, and are now in the middle of a two week European vacation. When they return to NY, they'll complete the drive back to Ottawa.

Now that's a good way to break up the trip!

Sometime we would like to make stops along the way back (Dollyland?)......but it is difficult to do with Gigi.

Closing down the laptop, and we're on the road again.............

They started in Cocoa Beach, so it was a straight shot up I-95 for them.

imidazol97

Someone had mentioned the Malibu 2016 with an increase in total length of 4 inches or so
would get away from the lack of legroom problem in the back seat. This is not correct. The Sonata/Optima has 35.6; TLX, 34.5; Malibu 36.8. Odd no one
decides that HyKia or Honda TLX has a deficiency, but for the Malibu it's been
the mantra that it's deficient, nary a word about Sonata & TLX? It's almost like politics. LOL

On the other hand, I can't recall the last time I've noticed a Sonata, Malibu, Honda,
Passat, etc., with adults in the back seat short of a few arriving at Chick Fil A for
their lunch from the various offices around the I75 corridor. How much does the
back seat get used other than by youngters? :grin

New wheelbase may have Malibu up there with Passat which has amazing rear seat
room for category.

fezo

That's interesting because reviews all over complained about legroom in the current Malibu and GM went through great pains to correct it. The new one should indeed be pretty huge in the back.

It certainly looks like like a great job. If the reviews complain about legroom we'll know something's up.

stickguy

The number is not real world space. Depends on how far back the front seat is, and configuration in back. Such as a very low cushion vs. sitting up straight.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

The number is not real world space. Depends on how far back the front seat is, and configuration in back. Such as a very low cushion vs. sitting up straight.

The SAE specifications for one measurement method use a 95%ile adult for the positioning of the
front seats. Then the rear measurement is taken.

One article mentioned that European and Japanese didn't follow the one typical method--I
don't recall exactly which.

My method, SAE Imid1, is to sit in front seat and adjust the seat for driving comfort
with steering wheel down and arms on wheel. I sit there a while to be things that felt
comfortable are actually comfortable after a minute or two. I usually look over all the
controls during that time. Then I get into the back seat.

I contrast that with the acquaintance who shoves the front seat all the way back,
without respect for position for a normal driver, then hops in the back with his
long legs. So a car that gives lots of room on front track rearward is punished
by misuse of that extra adjustment for the 1% of drivers who are tall, real tall.

I offer Motorweek's method where they have different leg length guys hop into the back
seat. I suspect they choose the shorter leg length guy for the cars they want to give
a more positive image. I have watched how they get into the car's rear seat. Cars that
are tight that they don't want to admit that about, they plant their butt hard against the back of
the seat while outside the car, then pivot their knees into the car. That gives the appearance
of more knee room. Others, they rotating into the car with the forceful push against the
seat back. They never, never give the relative position of the front seat as to its travel.

One article I rear pointed out seat travel has increased through the years. Makes it all
the more important that they follow the SAE spec for 95%ile adult position for
front seat.

suydam

Most video reviews of back seat comfort I have seen are pretty fair. I don't think there is a conspiracy. They will generally say how far back the front seat is. It's impressive if the front seat is pushed fairly far back and the back seat passengers still have room. Back seat comfort can vary enormously. It isn't the numbers but factors such as the pitch, seat length, headroom (sometimes a real problem for the current craze for sharply raked cars with thick rear pillars) leg and toe room. For example, my old Subaru Forester had enough legroom but zero room for your feet. And people do buy midsize cars with the idea that they will be able to put at least another couple in the back and still feel comfortable. Otherwise, why not buy a compact car? Automakers have to take rear passenger room into account when building midsize sedans. There are so many choices out there.

fezo

Imid - your method is what we call here the two Jennifer test. My wife has the longest legs in the family so she gets in front, gets all comfy and the gets in the back and see if that works. Way back when that's how we ended up in he 2000 Accord rather than a Legacy wagon. Had I known my older two were going to grown up to be midgets we'd have bought the Legacy.

ab348

My ATS is essentially a 3-passenger car when I'm driving. My seat is back enough that the left side rear seat might be usable by a 4 year-old but not many others. But I can adjust the front passenger seat to be comfortable for me to sit in and still get in the back on that side and at least tolerate it back there. The rear seat in the ATS is very tight regardless.

verdugo

driver100 said:

BBB is lame but I would pursue it other ways......but that's just me. Like I say, consumer advocates in the press or on TV - they are often looking for human interest stories the common man can identify with.....even if it is on a consumer complaint web-site. The way I see it, if I lost $450 worth of food, my goal would be to make them lose more than $450 in profit. I can be the nicest guy in the world....but, I'll try to find a way to get at least even........

Mike,
Driver is right, pursue it other ways. I would suggest you use twitter (https://twitter.com/Sears)

It's like standing at your local Sear's appliance department, but in all of their stores, in front of the media.

abacomike

Now for the next installment of my SEARS saga:

They did not deliver the new refrigerator replacement today - they ran out of stock and had no idea when the model would be available again. I was told to go to the store where I originally bought the refrigerator and pick out another model. So I just got back from going up to the Boca Sears Store. They had a Whirlpool 21 cubic foot side-by-side refrigerator in various colors including the white that we wanted. It was selling for $1169.00 with free shipping. I asked the manager if he would be willing to sell it to me for an even exchange. After checking pricing, etc., he agreed. So, it will be delivered on Monday morning and they will take the Kenmore back with them - no cost to us.

So it would seem the manager of the appliance dept. was of the old school Sears - cared about customer satisfaction, etc. I might have overpaid a bit for it, but at least it's not a Sears brand, but and Whirlpool, which usually has good ratings. My brother had a huge Whirlpool that he is extremely happy with.

So, let's see what happens on Monday with the new fridge. For some strange reason, I have this pain in the pit of my stomach that is telling me this is not the end of my Sears Saga. Time will tell.

jayrider

Mike, Stories like yours and the three fridges are why they invented xanax. Cheese and crackers !

abacomike

jayrider said:

Mike, Stories like yours and the three fridges are why they invented xanax. Cheese and crackers !

You forgot my smart phone making calls by itself!  Xanax is not available to me nor is Valium.  I am at the mercy of those in my environment who consistently challenge my sanity,  it won't be long now before I am admitted for the statutory 72 hour observation for the suspected insane,

jayrider

If everything was easy, life would be boring. Embrace the chaos. Your blood pressure will thank you. Stay frosty.

abacomike

jayrider said:

If everything was easy, life would be boring. Embrace the chaos. Your blood pressure will thank you. Stay frosty.

Boring would be nice for a few weeks after these last two weeks!!!

imidazol97

fezo said:

Imid - your method is what we call here the two Jennifer test. My wife has the longest legs in the family so she gets in front, gets all comfy and the gets in the back and see if that works. .

LOL. That works.

imidazol97

jayrider said:

Mike, Stories like yours and the three fridges are why they invented xanax. Cheese and crackers !

Sounds like a movie or TV show title: Three fridges and Xanax.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

They had a Whirlpool 21 cubic foot side-by-side refrigerator in various colors including the white that we wanted. It was selling for $1169.00 with free shipping.

My personal opinion is that you will be better off.

I tried searching net to find where refrigerators are made by Whirlpool. Amana, Iowa. Ohio. And a plant in Mexico for certain models. Check the label on the box that it comes in on the truck.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Someone had mentioned the Malibu 2016 with an increase in total length of 4 inches or so
would get away from the lack of legroom problem in the back seat. Like "Hands up, don't shoot"
this is not correct. The Sonata/Optima has 35.6; TLX, 34.5; Malibu 36.8. Odd no one
decides that HyKia or Honda TLX has a deficiency, but for the Malibu it's been
the mantra that it's deficient, nary a word about Sonata & TLX? It's almost like politics. LOL

On the other hand, I can't recall the last time I've noticed a Sonata, Malibu, Honda,
Passat, etc., with adults in the back seat short of a few arriving at Chick Fil A for
their lunch from the various offices around the I75 corridor. How much does the
back seat get used other than by youngters? :grin

New wheelbase may have Malibu up there with Passat which has amazing rear seat
room for category.

2015 Passat:
Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 38.3, rear headroom (inches): 37.8, front leg room (inches): 42.4, rear leg room (inches): 39.1, front shoulder room (inches): 56.9, rear shoulder room (inches): 57.0 and interior volume (cu ft): 102.0

carnaught

I thought Whirlpools were made in Indiana. Well, like everything else, probably not any more. I've had good luck with Whirlpools in the past, and Mike you're due for it. Let us know how you make out.

driver100

abacomike said:

Now for the next installment of my SEARS saga:

They did not deliver the new refrigerator replacement today - they ran out of stock and had no idea when the model would be available again. I was told to go to the store where I originally bought the refrigerator and pick out another model. So I just got back from going up to the Boca Sears Store. They had a Whirlpool 21 cubic foot side-by-side refrigerator in various colors including the white that we wanted. It was selling for $1169.00 with free shipping. I asked the manager if he would be willing to sell it to me for an even exchange. After checking pricing, etc., he agreed. So, it will be delivered on Monday morning and they will take the Kenmore back with them - no cost to us.

So it would seem the manager of the appliance dept. was of the old school Sears - cared about customer satisfaction, etc. I might have overpaid a bit for it, but at least it's not a Sears brand, but and Whirlpool, which usually has good ratings. My brother had a huge Whirlpool that he is extremely happy with.

So, let's see what happens on Monday with the new fridge. For some strange reason, I have this pain in the pit of my stomach that is telling me this is not the end of my Sears Saga. Time will tell.

Probably not out of stock...just all defective.

Good luck with the Whirlpool...that's what we have in Florida. Seems to be OK.

I think at minimum I would have returned the 1st fridge and would get them to send me another model....just to inconvenience them a bit. Call it vengeful if you like.....but, they don't seem too concerned about you - the customer!

Verdugo had a good idea too with twitter....but, you may want to see what happens on Monday. BTW.....That's a long time to go without a fridge!

We left Tampa at 9:30 a.m. and got to our target, just North of Atlanta in Marietta GA....at 7 PM. Big accident around Ocala (a new Dodge Charger - red with black markings and about a 2000 Lincoln silver with a red vinyl roof - I know I am being judgemental but in my imagination I think there was a young guy racing and zig zagging and he hit the older guys Lincoln - just a guess though) so that cost an hour. Big traffic jams on each side of Atlanta. Travelled 500 miles. Hope to get to Findley OH tomorrow, 600 miles.

fezo

Finally, a picture of the Prius

fezo

Nice blue.

BTW that snow is NO LONGER HERE! Let's keep it that way.

abacomike

fezo said:

Finally, a picture of the Prius

I like the color.  But what is that white stuff all around the car?

Strange looking stuff!

stickguy

that is a nice color. and you need to get working on that house to put another garage bay on!

abacomike

My twin brother drove down today from Ponte Vedra Beach (just south of Jacksonville and north of St. Augustine) to spend a few hours with my Dad.  It was good seeing him (about 2-1/2 years since we saw each other).  

He he drove down in his new E400 Convertible.  Gorgeous car in white with red soft top and red leather interior.  It is much smaller that the E400 sedan and a bit tighter inside.  But with the sport package, the car is truly a knockout.  He said he averaged over 31 mpg at 75 mph. It's about 300+ miles from here to his house.

If I felt like I could be comfortable in the convertible or the coupe, I'd consider one. But it is not as comfortable as the sedan.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

But what is that white stuff all around the car? Strange looking stuff!

That's northern sand. It blows in some days and then blows out. But sometimes it hangs around for a while.