Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

ha. Funny! We were supposed to go to Doylestown yesterday to take a gander at some new houses going up there. Wife held us up, so we didn't make it, though.

stickguy

Yup mike. That is where it is.

Q, that is no where close to Atlanta

nyccarguy

driver100 said:

Daughter update:

Our daughter checked out a bmw 328 diesel. Remember, her two most important points are "safety" and "gas mileage" (uses $400 worth of gas a month). She was very impressed, especially because of the 5 star safety rating.....Dino gave interesting information about how almost all cars get 5 stars because it is a very old rating system. The sales lady really built up the 5 star rating as being a really big deal....also did well in offset test but sales lady made it sound like this was unusual

But what really impressed ourdaughter was when the saleslady took the car out on the road and while going 50 mph , took the steering wheel in two fingers and put the two right wheels on the gravel, drove toward a telephone pole, and put the car back onto the road. We saw this same demonstration about 8 years ago....and it impressed us too. In fact, that was a big reason for buying our 2008 bmws.

But, most cars that have traction control and especially with awd can do that these days. She was really leaning toward a bmw because of that demo, someone came up with a clever advertising gimmick.

When I look at the insurance bureaus really top picks bmw isn't mentioned, not many are, she would have to go with a Volvo.

BMWs are generally very safe cars. Luckily for your daughter, if she purchases a 328 diesel, she will spend nothing on gasoline, ever.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

The lowest price for PUG down here is at Costco - $2.92.9 a gallon.  That's up 53 cents a gallon from what it was 2 months ago.  The branded gasolines are running $3.09.9 a gallon.

It's amazing how slowly prices come down compared to how quickly they go up.  You can almost smell the price manipulation going on.

Truer words have not been spoken. Fact is, Iranian oil will start to hit the market soon after the sanctions are lifted (it might be hitting the market now, AFAIK). Yet, again the market ignores basic economic principles.

Yeah....there's some price fixing going on, without a doubt. If ever there was a time for any administration to "kill this oil price fixing beast" once and for all, it's now. It would be good for the country, probably be good for countries throughout the world.

An artificially propped up oil price scheme is always bad for the economy.

driver100

rubbington said:

ab348 said:

The last 2 cars I sold myself, I wasn't actually actively selling.

In 2003 my fleet consisted of a '78 Olds Delta 88 4-door, a '79 Buick Electra 225 Park Avenue, and my '68 Cutlass. Yes, in 2003.

I'll leave the Cutlass out of this as it is a hobby car. For years when I lived and worked downtown, it was the only car I had. I walked most everywhere I needed to go. When I bought a house away from downtown in 1997, I needed a beater, and wanted a rear-drive car, preferably an Olds since I was familiar with the engine. The '78 Delta I found had a Rocket 350, was in reasonable shape, and was cheap - $2000. After I got it I found, of course, that it wasn't as good as I thought, and I went on a project for a few years upgrading it inside and out, though mechanically it was really pretty good. By the time 2002 came along, it was more than presentable and not bad at all for a car approaching 25 years of age. It was a good runner too, as these cars tended to be.

In the fall of 2001 the Buick presented itself, a total creampuff owned by an elderly gent who had given up the little driving he did, and it was a steal. I had to buy it. So now I owned 2 boats. I had the old fellow store the Buick in his condo garage over the winter because I didn't want to drive it in the slop. In March, two things happened. He started bugging me to get it out of his garage, so I reluctantly parked it in my driveway and the Olds went to the curb outside my house. About a week later, we had a big ice storm. I remember hearing a big noise outside that Saturday morning, looked out the window, and saw a massive section of a maple tree that was next to the street, laying in the street, next to the Olds.

I got dressed and went out to look at it. The fallen section was big enough that it was blocking the entire street. When it gave way, it raked the drivers side of the Olds pretty good, mashing the front fender, ripping off the door mirror, and doing some other assorted damage. It was a city tree, and after some wrangling with them, their insurance company agreed to go good for the repair. I found a similar car in a junkyard, got the necessary repair parts for short money, and came out about $1000 ahead on the insurance claim. So after it was repaired, it looked better than ever, with fresh paint on the drivers side of the car, but it wasn't getting much use since I was driving the Buick. One day a knock comes at my door and there is a guy there wanting to know if that was my Delta 88 and was I interested in selling it. He wanted it and I sold it for more than I paid originally.

About a year later a similar thing happened. I was outside and a car pulls up. The guy gets out, wants to see the Buick and after looking it over asks if I wanted to sell it. I did, and flipped it to him for a grand more than I had paid. He then went and had it professionally repainted, did some other small cosmetic things (it needed very little) and drove it for a while. I still see it occasionally around town, though he has sold it subsequently. It was nice to not have to work to sell two old tuna boats!

ab said "it was repaired, it looked better than ever, with fresh paint on the drivers side of the car, but it wasn't getting much use since I was driving the Buick. One day a knock comes at my door and there is a guy there wanting to know if that was my Delta 88 and was I interested in selling it. He wanted it and I sold it for more than I paid originally."

>ab said "it was repaired, it looked better than ever, with fresh paint on the drivers side of the car, but it wasn't getting much use since I was driving the Buick. One day a knock comes at my door and there is a guy there wanting to know if that was my Delta 88 and was I interested in selling it. He wanted it and I sold it for more than I paid originally."

Cool story dude, you should consider blog writing?



Yeh ab, hold onto that story for when a host tells us there is a magazine writer looking for someone who has sold two cars while not even trying to sell them.....and at a profit!

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Yup mike. That is where it is.

Q, that is no where close to Atlanta

yeah, well, gotta keep our options open. Seems like Atlanta is plagued by HR reps who don't know what the word "follow-up" means.

abacomike

stickguy said:

Yup mike. That is where it is. Q, that is no where close to Atlanta

Actually, it's a lot closer to Atlanta than to Los Angeles, Seattle, Minneapolis!  

fezo

That's the area all right, My brother lives in Doylestown and would have come to get me but Saturday he had his motorcycle in for work and they gave hi a loaner that was too tall for him. He decided he'd live with it for the short time he had it. Bad move. His foot hit wrong at a stop and down he went. Broken clavicle. Might need screws. He's out of the lineup.

This will be rough on him. Very active guy.

abacomike

fezo said:

That's the area all right, My brother lives in Doylestown and would have come to get me but Saturday he had his motorcycle in for work and they gave hi a loaner that was too tall for him. He decided he'd live with it for the short time he had it. Bad move. His foot hit wrong at a stop and down he went. Broken clavicle. Might need screws. He's out of the lineup. This will be rough on him. Very active guy.

When I was in my 30's, I took up motorcycling - Honda 750 Nighthawk and a Honda 1000 Custom.  I was lucky I did not kill myself.  Once I was wearing shorts in the summer and burned my right calf on one of the exhausts.  Got infected - big mess.  I took a couple of spills at very low speeds - but I would ache for days after each fall.

Dangerous hobby - I loved cycling but when my wife said it was the bike or her, it ended abruptly (the motorcycling - not the marriage).  

graphicguy

OK...not sure I want to do this, but my darling bride seems smitten with the C Class after I told her of the test drive I took. We were on the other side of the Ohio River this weekend (that would be KY, for the non-locals).

There are two Mercedes Dealers in Cincinnati, both owned by the same Principal. The one closest to me (in the northern part of the Cincinnati suburbs) is the one I visited to look at a AMG GT. Wish I could afford one, but it's a wee bit out of my price range. Anyway, to recap, I was afforded the opportunity to drive a C300. I liked it. Told my wife I liked it. Sales guy/manager (both) were a bit too high pressure, especially for a high line dealership. But, at least I'm adept at saying no and deflecting their pleading and prodding.

Recall my wife has an Accord that's about 2 years old. Been prefect. She bought it before we married, and traded in a 12 year old Nissan Sentra. In short, she doesn't have the same disease I have for CCBA.....or so I thought.

Back to being in KY, my wife and I were driving down to look at some antiques she found on some WEB site that advertises local home auctions. Just as an FYI, I don't know the WEB site's name, but don't let your significant others anywhere near if they peruse these auction sites. It sends them into a tizzy. I think it's called "Everything but the House".

Anyway as we're listening to the GPS tell use where to go in the Kentucky area, we exit to the area from I75 to the community where this auction is supposed to be....Ft Mitchell. Right off the Exit is a huge Mercedes dealer. Didn't know they existed. We proceed to the auction, thankfully not seeing anything which floats our boat.

On the way back, surprisingly, my wife says "let's take a look at the Benz you were talking about". "

"Really?....OK, let's go"!

We swing into the dealership. Beautiful dealership. All glass, Wood, clean and modern...with a water sculpture behind the desk of the receptionist. Up until this point, the nicest dealership I've ever seen is a Lexus dealership not far from me.

Anyway, receptionist greets us, and asks if we're there to see anyone in particular. We tell her no, but ask her if we can browse. No problem.

After a few minutes of us wandering around, my wife sees a C400 that's right at the front line of the cars inside the showroom.....grey metallic with black interior. I can tell immediately that the interior is the "fake" pleather Mercedes pushes. Still, it was a nice car. She's shocked at the sticker (low $50s). Quite a bit more than her Accord.

They were busy, and we weren't buyers so we didn't bother anyone with questions. We were about to leave when we were approached by a gentleman who introduces himself as the General Manager. I was kind of taken aback because it was 4:00 p.m. on a Saturday. close to closing time and the GM is not only there, he's working the floor. Impressive. Small talk ensues...."thanks for coming...welcome to our dealership...glad you're here,.....where you from...etc."

We inform him we're just looking. He comes back with "you ever driven a C Class before?" Inform him I have but my wife hadn't. "Well, let's not make it a wasted trip." He has someone open up the front doors of the dealership while he gets a plate and before you know it, they're getting ready to pull the car out of the showroom. I remind him we're not in the market and that another C...one outside, less hassle to get to. "No issues....we've already go the doors open.

He lets us take it by ourselves ,without supervision. Wife driving first. She's smitten. It's smooth, the controls are better than her Acccords, it's a lot quieter, the suspension is better, etc. But, I remind her, that's what $20K+ gets you and there are no "apples to apples" comparisons.

I drive next. Yea, it's faster than the C300 I drove, but the C300 felt....I dunno....better in some way. It's lighter, I'm sure. Felt "friskier". Still, I can understand the allure of the C400. Not sure in the C Class if that drivetrain is worth the extra dollars. I can see it's worth in the bigger E Class, though.

Anyway, we returned. Thanked the GM for his time. Told him we were impressed and that if we're in the market, we'll definitely be back. He wanted our contact info so he could keep us up to date on specials, which my wife gave him.

All in all, very pleasant experience and a very nice car.

What my wife forgot to ask, how much is routine maintenance? I warned her that it was going to be much more than the maintenance on her Accord. She asked me why? I don't know. Anybody with input care to chime in?

stickguy

Looks like another fish hooked.

From everything I have read, the 2.0 in the C class seems like the way to go. But I drive a Hyundai so what do I know?

abacomike

GG, maintenance is about $350-ish and for Service A and $450-ish for Service B.

Service A is done at 10,000 miles and Service B is done at 20,000 miles and then they alternate (another A at 30,000 miles and another B at 40,000 miles).

The above can be purchased as a 3-year maintenance plan from Mercedes at a reasonable cost which saves several hundred dollars.  It does not include brakes or tires.

I think the C400 is not necessary - too costly but they provide lots of standard features that are optional in the C300.  AWD (4-MATIC) is standard on the C400.

If you buy or lease one, try to get them to throw in the maintenance plan into the deal at the very end of negotiations.  They have some trunk money on all the 2015's.

robr2

From what I can see is the MB service are pretty much the standard things that all manufacturers do: oil and filter changes, inspections, et al.

I think the difference is that it's an MB so they realize that most service customers expect to pay a higher amount for that service which includes loaners, cappuccino and lattes, manicures and pedicures, the hoity toity showroom, and all the other amenities that go along with that beautiful showroom. They charge higher rates because they can.

Edmunds paid $230 for the "A" service on the CLA they have. I pay about $120 for the same types of checks and an synthetic oil change for both my VW and Explorer.

abacomike

robr2 said:

From what I can see is the MB service are pretty much the standard things that all manufacturers do: oil and filter changes, inspections, et al. I think the difference is that it's an MB so they realize that most service customers expect to pay a higher amount for that service which includes loaners, cappuccino and lattes, manicures and pedicures, the hoity toity showroom, and all the other amenities that go along with that beautiful showroom. They charge higher rates because they can. Edmunds paid $230 for the "A" service on the CLA they have. I pay about $120 for the same types of checks and an synthetic oil change for both my VW and Explorer.

My MB dealer charges about $325 for the E Class A Service which takes 2 hours.  The B Service takes 4+ hours because it is much more involved - fuel filters, cooling system, etc.  Often they run sales on the services.  My guess is that the A and B services will be less on the C Class because I based my prices on a 6 cylinder E Class.

Their maintenance plans are much more reasonable when purchased with the car.  You save about $100+ per service when pre-purchased.

stickguy

About $50 for my RDX before coupons. Volvo dealer is about $75 for semi-synth, but it takes a lot!

dino001

graphicguy said:

What my wife forgot to ask, how much is routine maintenance? I warned her that it was going to be much more than the maintenance on her Accord. She asked me why? I don't know. Anybody with input care to chime in?

1. Somebody, somehow has to pay for those nicer dealership facilities, "free" loaner, cappuccino, chef pastries, etc.
2. Accord will likely still use a dino (mineral) oil, MB will use full synthetic.
3. It can't even be just any synthetic, like that Mobil 1 from Walmart for $30/5-q jug (which is nice), it has to be "THE" oil from list approved by MB, available only from the dealer or some specialty stores. German manufacturers test specific oil for their particular service interval.
4. Same thing applies to other fluids. Can't be just any fluids. The Accord may also require a particular type of fluids, but the markup on them is less for reasons stated in Item 1.
5. Same thing applies to filters. Can't be just any filters. See Item 4 and Item 1.
6. Tires on tha C400 will likely go at 20-25 thousand miles. They are sticky, but soft. The Accord will likely have 50-80 thousand miles on the tires. It's not that Accord's tires are "better", they are designed to work in different circumstances. Now, I believe if you put Accord's tires on that C400 you will likely be fine, provided you drive it same way you drive the Accord.

As I moved from Subaru (which already needs more maintenance than Honda, especially in WRX/STI variety) to BMW, I quickly discovered that the prices for same services did not go proportional to the prices of the cars. They went double or tripple, whereas the cars were only say 30-50 percent (STI to 328). My BMW dealer uses $200 as a base multiple of his service (i.e. the services are priced at $200, $400, $600, etc.), no matter what it is. So I use them until my "free" maintenance period ends. Then will likely find a specialized independent place. Will be a bit tough, as "free" loaners will have to be replaced by alternative transportation.

graphicguy

Thanks Mike. I'll pass that on to my wife. I don't think she's not going to be too enamored with the service charges. She's used to $40 oil change/tire rotation, check fluids, etc (with coupon). Sounds like Mercedes is about 9X the cost for roughly the same service.

I figured there was trunk money. GM said 10% OFF ANY CAR they have in stock (presumably he's talking C Class only) and the incentives I get because my company has FEP.

Service may be a non-starter for her, though. She's sensitive to that sort of stuff. The whole "if you can afford the car (she can), you can afford the service" doesn't play too well with her.

dino001

I think service is where dealers actually make money. New car sales do make them money, but not nearly as much. Just like with many other things, the spending starts at the purchase of a product like C400, not ends. The "lifestyle" magic... You buy one thing, which for them means, you should buy five other things, as well.

Check out how much it costs to "level 1" service a Breitling watch. You'll be shocked. It's basically cost of a brand new midrange Citizen Eco Drive, $300. They have a special video showing what that service does (replace all seals, ultrasonic cleaning, etc.). There is of course "level 2" service, which I don't know what it does and how much it costs, but you can extrapolate.

abacomike

Mercedes uses Mobil 1, but it is a special Mobil 1 made exclusively for MB.  Probably the same ingredients used by BMW, Audi, etc.

As for the C Class, the 300 4-MATIC with a premium pkg., Lane tracking pkg. (includes Blind Spot Monitors) and a few other odds ands ends is still less than the C400 (which comes standard with most options).  If I buy another MB, it would not be the E400.  I'd get the entry level E, whatever that will be when the 2017's hit the dealer lots in early 2016.

dino001

BMW uses Castrol (or at least my model year).

dino001

graphicguy said:

Sounds like Mercedes is about 9X the cost for roughly the same service.

Wait the minute... Mercedes is not nine times better than Honda? I'm sure they use special while coats and surgeon gloves, when opening those precious hoods, not to mention gold plated tools approved in Stuttgart by Dieter Zetsche himself (every one, even the smallest wrench has engraved signature). That's just the garage. Upfront we have special $5000 voice-activated coffee machine and special personal assistant robots following you around with mind reading circuits to grant every wish. How can you say it's not nine times better?

BTW, I can only imagine prices charged at Porsche.

abacomike

Dino, what about the manicures, massages, special "telephone numbers" you can call for even more Service(s), and those special order cappuccinos with $50.00 bills for "cup holders"?  Can't beat those Mercedes Benz "service" centers!!!  

dino001

Absolutely. I heard Lexus is similar, but never been in one. BTW, my BMW dealer isn't so special, but they still charge pretty penny.

robr2

Regarding "The Oil", you can buy Mobil 1 that meets MB specs in 55 gallon drums for about $6/qt. That's a retail price. I'm guessing the dealer is getting a much better price than that since they will have a 100+ gallon tank filled by a distributor.

Ford dealer charges $8/qt for Motorcraft Oil - made by Kendall IIRC
VW dealer charges $9/qt for Castrol Oil
I pay $9.19/qt for the Castrol when I do my own oil changes.

nyccarguy

@dino001 - Porsche service and maintenance costs are what drove my parents to dump my Mom's 2011 V6 Cayenne after about 2 1/2 years and approxiamtely 55,000 miles. They both still rave about how the Cayenne drove...

Speaking of Subarus, what should I be doing to my Legacy as far as preventative maintenance goes? Stuff that's not in the book. I had full synthetic oil change #1 & tire rotation done at 7500 miles. I've got a little over 13K on the clock now and am getting set for service #2 (15K).

fezo

I had a brilliant way to solve all car issues. Buy the Miata and get an 89 or 90 Caprice wagon and register it as an antique! I think I'd put too many miles on it for that to work.

Have the deposit in on the 5 and have done most of the paperwork online. Loan was approved in about 30 seconds. Tomorrow evening will be good.

abacomike

fezo said:

I had a brilliant way to solve all car issues. Buy the Miata and get an 89 or 90 Caprice wagon and register it as an antique! I think I'd put too many miles on it for that to work. Have the deposit in on the 5 and have done most of the paperwork online. Loan was approved in about 30 seconds. Tomorrow evening will be good.

I wish you a safe trip to the dealer with hopes that everything works out exactly as you planned!!!  

[Deleted User]

nyccarguy said:

@dino001 - Porsche service and maintenance costs are what drove my parents to dump my Mom's 2011 V6 Cayenne after about 2 1/2 years and approxiamtely 55,000 miles. They both still rave about how the Cayenne drove...

Speaking of Subarus, what should I be doing to my Legacy as far as preventative maintenance goes? Stuff that's not in the book. I had full synthetic oil change #1 & tire rotation done at 7500 miles. I've got a little over 13K on the clock now and am getting set for service #2 (15K).

I'd recommend draining and filling the rear differential at 15,000 miles using full synthetic 75w-90 gear oil. I waited until 30,000 on my Impreza per the book and found the oil pretty contaminated. I drained it twice to clear out the old oil. Also, don't forget about the cabin air filter. It's easy to check.

stickguy

Ty beat me to it. Invest in differential oil changes. Or DIY if you can get at them. Cheap insurance.

I know on my RDX it called for rear diff fluid at 15k the first time, then every 30k after that.

Basically if it has fluid in it, change it at least every 2 years/30k, or more often if manual says to.

stickguy

Good luck Fezo. Can't wait for details. Looks like a good deal, even at listed asking.

dino001

tyguy said:

nyccarguy said:

@dino001 - Porsche service and maintenance costs are what drove my parents to dump my Mom's 2011 V6 Cayenne after about 2 1/2 years and approxiamtely 55,000 miles. They both still rave about how the Cayenne drove...

Speaking of Subarus, what should I be doing to my Legacy as far as preventative maintenance goes? Stuff that's not in the book. I had full synthetic oil change #1 & tire rotation done at 7500 miles. I've got a little over 13K on the clock now and am getting set for service #2 (15K).

I'd recommend draining and filling the rear differential at 15,000 miles using full synthetic 75w-90 gear oil. I waited until 30,000 on my Impreza per the book and found the oil pretty contaminated. I drained it twice to clear out the old oil. Also, don't forget about the cabin air filter. It's easy to check.

I concur - differential/auto transmission fluids are most commonly overlooked by owners. This is a nasty one - when the fluid is black, it's too late already. 15K seems quite extreme, but if that's your experience, seems like a good idea. I had manual transmissions, which can go without change virtually forever. My cabin filters weRe pain in the butt, if Subaru changed the design, it's great.

dino001

nyccarguy said:

@dino001 - Porsche service and maintenance costs are what drove my parents to dump my Mom's 2011 V6 Cayenne after about 2 1/2 years and approxiamtely 55,000 miles. They both still rave about how the Cayenne drove...

Speaking of Subarus, what should I be doing to my Legacy as far as preventative maintenance goes? Stuff that's not in the book. I had full synthetic oil change #1 & tire rotation done at 7500 miles. I've got a little over 13K on the clock now and am getting set for service #2 (15K).

I thought Subaru required first oil change at 3K (they now paying for it). Perhaps only for those turbos.

nyccarguy

@dino001 & @tyguy - you did mention something a while back. Thank-you. I should probably call the dealer to see if they stock this 75W 90 Synthetic Gear Oil if not I will provide. I'll check the owner's manual to see how much of it I need. Thank-you again. I'm new to Subaru Ownership.

driver100

nyccarguy said:

driver100 said:

Daughter update:

Our daughter checked out a bmw 328 diesel. Remember, her two most important points are "safety" and "gas mileage" (uses $400 worth of gas a month). She was very impressed, especially because of the 5 star safety rating.....Dino gave interesting information about how almost all cars get 5 stars because it is a very old rating system. The sales lady really built up the 5 star rating as being a really big deal....also did well in offset test but sales lady made it sound like this was unusual

But what really impressed ourdaughter was when the saleslady took the car out on the road and while going 50 mph , took the steering wheel in two fingers and put the two right wheels on the gravel, drove toward a telephone pole, and put the car back onto the road. We saw this same demonstration about 8 years ago....and it impressed us too. In fact, that was a big reason for buying our 2008 bmws.

But, most cars that have traction control and especially with awd can do that these days. She was really leaning toward a bmw because of that demo, someone came up with a clever advertising gimmick.

When I look at the insurance bureaus really top picks bmw isn't mentioned, not many are, she would have to go with a Volvo.

BMWs are generally very safe cars. Luckily for your daughter, if she purchases a 328 diesel, she will spend nothing on gasoline, ever.

Was that a Yogi-ism?

driver100

graphicguy said:

All in all, very pleasant experience and a very nice car.

What my wife forgot to ask, how much is routine maintenance? I warned her that it was going to be much more than the maintenance on her Accord. She asked me why? I don't know. Anybody with input care to chime in?

Once you drive a Mercedes it is difficult to go back (similarly bmw and for some people Audi too). But, a Mercedes is solid, and it drives like a dream.

It is expensive if you can be satisfied driving a more regular type car. I doubt if you need a 400 to get the MB feeling, a lesser model will still seem nice.

When my wife first tried one she knew she had to have one....even if it was going to be a used one.

qbrozen

speaking of trans fluid, I have a coworker with a Rabbit. Probably '07-'08, I didn't ask. Anyway, I'm in the car for the first time a few days ago. She was telling me how she had it to an indy mechanic recently for a CEL that turned out to be the plugs. 120k miles on the car and this was the first time replacing them. She explains to me that she has neglected the car, hasn't followed any service regimen, etc, and "so, would you know why sometimes the engine races but the car isn't moving forward like it should?" SIGH "Yes. Because lifetime fluid is BS."

ab348

rubbington said:

Cool story dude, you should consider blog writing?

Thanks. I posted that a while ago, had forgotten what we were discussing.

abacomike

One of the "new" standard features on the MB E400 came in very handy this evening - automatic electric folding mirrors.  Quite frankly, I have not considered that feature very much because the folding mirrors do their job inconspicuously - they fold inward toward the two front doors when the ignition is turned off.

We went for dinner this evening and I left the key in the front ashtray for the valet - it comes standard with a keyless start/stop button so long as you have the key on your person.  I pressed the ignition button to turn off the engine and as my Dad opened his door, the door on the car next to him opened up unexpectedly and narrowly missed the right side-view mirror. If the automatic mirrors had not done what they were supposed to do - that is to retract - I'd be at the dealership tomorrow ordering a new right side-view mirror.

These easily forgotten features do come in handy at times by protecting various parts on the car.  Thank goodness for that inconspicuous automatic retracting mirror.

verdugo

Hi all. I am in need of your wisdom again.

As you remember, I leased a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee in mid February through Chrysler Capital. A few weeks ago, I got a letter in the mail asking me to submit my insurance information. No problem.

Today I got a letter saying that they are "unable to accept this policy because the deductible listed on the policy exceeds the deductible limits permitted by the terms of your lease agreement."

I have a $1,500 deductible. They have a limit of $1,000.

Obviously I would never drive a car without insurance, so I have no problem with insurance being required. However, are they allowed to specify the deductible level?

I haven't talked to my insurance agent to see how much my premium would go up, but that's besides the point. It's the principle of it.

And if I refuse to get a $1,000 deductible, can I return the Jeep? I would just turn around and finance a new one and keep my $1,500 deductible.

Thank you.

[Deleted User]

nyccarguy said:

@dino001 & @tyguy - you did mention something a while back. Thank-you. I should probably call the dealer to see if they stock this 75W 90 Synthetic Gear Oil if not I will provide. I'll check the owner's manual to see how much of it I need. Thank-you again. I'm new to Subaru Ownership.

You're welcome! For the Outback I'm planning to change the rear diff fluid at 15k, then again at 30k, and then after that every 30k.

abacomike

verdugo said:

Hi all. I am in need of your wisdom again. As you remember, I leased a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee in mid February through Chrysler Capital. A few weeks ago, I got a letter in the mail asking me to submit my insurance information. No problem. Today I got a letter saying that they are "unable to accept this policy because the deductible listed on the policy exceeds the deductible limits permitted by the terms of your lease agreement." I have a $1,500 deductible. They have a limit of $1,000. Obviously I would never drive a car without insurance, so I have no problem with insurance being required. However, are they allowed to specify the deductible level? I haven't talked to my insurance agent to see how much my premium would go up, but that's besides the point. It's the principle of it. And if I refuse to get a $1,000 deductible, can I return the Jeep? I would just turn around and finance a new one and keep my $1,500 deductible. Thank you.

The answer is simple - YES they can set limits of required insurance.  $1000 deductible collision is the highest deductible allowed on every lease I've ever seen.  $100,000-$300,000 are the minimum limits allowed on all leases I've ever seen for liability coverage.

You signed the lease and the lease specifies the minimum limits and what you are required to have.

The difference in premium should not be very much.  As for returning the vehicle, you can, but you must make all the remaining payments and pay an early termination fee.  Or trade the Jeep in on a new one - but you will be very unhappy with the trade allowance on the current Jeep.

Just pay the few extra bucks for going from $1500 to $1000 deductible collision.  The big difference in premium would be if you had to go to $500 or $250 deductible.

[Deleted User]

dino001 said:

My cabin filters weRe pain in the butt, if Subaru changed the design, it's great.

Indeed. Some of the early designs were.....hmmm.....industrial. The new style is amazingly simple. Just squeeze the glove box sides to clear the opening stops and allow the box to hinge all the way towards the floor. The filter is located in the void behind the glove box and simply slides out like a drawer. It's almost anti-climatic compared to the old systems.

verdugo

abacomike said:

The answer is simple - YES they can set limits of required insurance.  $1000 deductible collision is the highest deductible allowed on every lease I've ever seen.  $100,000-$300,000 are the minimum limits allowed on all leases I've ever seen for liability coverage.

You signed the lease and the lease specifies the minimum limits and what you are required to have.

The difference in premium should not be very much.  As for returning the vehicle, you can, but you must make all the remaining payments and pay an early termination fee.  Or trade the Jeep in on a new one - but you will be very unhappy with the trade allowance on the current Jeep.

Just pay the few extra bucks for going from $1500 to $1000 deductible collision.  The big difference in premium would be if you had to go to $500 or $250 deductible.

Thanks Mike. To be honest I had never thought to check for a deductible limit in the contract.

I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow.

abacomike

Verdugo, what surprises me is that the dealer did not request/require proof of insurance with limits of liability and deductibles from you prior to delivering the car.  On purchases, all you need is proof of insurance, however on leases, it was always a requirement of the lessor (leasing company or division) that the insurance coverages be submitted with the lease.  The fault here lies with the dealership for not verifying the limits of insurance when you leased the car.

Legally, you are required to provide insurance coverages as outlined/required under the terms of the lease agreement.  But the dealer is at fault for not making sure you had the proper coverages before you left their dealership with the leased vehicle.

stickguy

the stricter limits on leases I knew. When I got my Sonata (first lease) they verified the levels to make sure. We had a 1K deductible so was not an issue.

stickguy

cabin filters? My Honda's have been easy. TL was a bit of a pain with a bracket to unscrew and a painful system to get glovebox off. The odyssey, and I assume RDX (I will find out this week when I go to change it for the first time!) were super simple.

my Volvo, that is a pain. For all I know, it is the original one in there (8 years/110K). It is about an hour of labor at the dealer (I think they quoted me $100 for the job). Apparently you have to disconnect the brake pedal/linkage to get to where they hid it. what a crazy system, and why I have never tried to DIY it.

graphicguy

Thanks for the input, everyone. This is a non-sales story after all. She drove the same C300 I had driven when the local MB dealer had the open house to roll out the AMG GT.

I think she and I lean more towards sporty riding and handling cars. As such, the C300 would fit her better than the C400. Both are very nice. Just that the C300 has plenty of power in its own right. And, it sure does handle better.

None of that matters. My wife asked the dealer for their service costs. Sales guy, without really telling us what those costs were, mentioned how much we would save if we pre-purchased service. So, we got more direct, and asked him what an oil change would cost. He said he didn't know. I also asked him what the price of the car was using my company's FEP discount.

First, if you're a sales person for one of the top tier cars in the market (Cadillac, Mercedes, Audi, BMW, etc). wouldn't it behoove you to know things like services costs? Further, after saying he would check on pricing, he came back with a monthly lease amount. Not what I asked for and I told him. He went back to what I'll assume was his manager, and came back with a lease price that was $24 less/mo than the original number. Still not what I asked for. Long and short of it, they were loath to give us a price on the car....not matter how much, and which way I asked him. This was the Mercedes dealer closest to my home. Plus, he kept addressing me, and not my wife. I probably had to tell him 3 or 4 times "tell her the figures. She's the one buying. Not me.".

At the end of the day, this Mercedes dealership experience was no different than if I had gone to a Kia dealership.

The one we visited over the weekend (furthest from my home) in Ft Mitchell, KY, just across the OH River, was just the opposite. The GM had a sales person follow-up yesterday with pricing and the FEP discount (about $3,000 under invoice)....purchase, lease, didn't matter. They listened. They approached my wife as the buyer (which she was). They were quick with information about service prices (and also stating it's cheaper if you pre-pay).

But, as I thought, the real non-starter was the cost of service. My wife will keep a Benz probably 10 years. Those costs add up......a lot....over that period of time. And, there's no clear difference between what Mercedes does for service and what my Cadillac dealer does (I can get an oil change and tire rotation, fluid check and top off, check hoses, belts, fittings, etc) for $0. Like BMW it's included. Even if it wasn't included, I see their service schedule. That service is $60.

Driver....you're right. The Mercedes does drive differently. It feels more solid than the wife's Accord (which is no slouch). The materials and switches are certainly of a higher quality than my wife's Accord. Still,I'd choose her leather over Mercedes pleather. Mercedes real leather is quite nice, though. There's also a smoothness in the drive that the Accord doesn't have. Hard to explain. Nice cars.

I asked her if she wanted to look at BMWs. She's over the new car "thing". Good thing she's got a husband that keeps it interesting though.

js06gv

The discussion about service costs raises some questions for me. Although my cars are nice, I've not owned a "premium" brand. Just about every vehicle I've purchased over the past 10 years or so requires pretty mimimal service - oil changes and tire rotations are about it until the car gets to 100K and then you're possibly looking at spark plugs, coolant flush, etc. I'm talking about strictly following the scheduled maintenance guide. Now, that doesn't stop a dealership from selling packages of extra services that at least I think are unnecessary. Are they any more necessary for a premium brand car? Or does a Mercedes, BMW, etc really require that much more service according to their own scheduled service recommendations? I know service is where the real money is for a dealership so I get why "Service A, B or X" is pushed so hard but in the end, how important is it to pay premium prices for component inspections and the like?

stickguy

If she really wanted to go upscale, sounds like an an AWD V6 TLX would be a better option. The familiar aspect of the Honda, with the power and goodies. And cheap service costs. Heck, I took my old Acura TL to my Honda dealer because it was closer. They did not mind at all.

ab348

graphicguy said:

Still,I'd choose her leather over Mercedes pleather. Mercedes real leather is quite nice, though.

Not really related to your post, except I saw something on the weekend that this reminded me of. I was cruising around and drove past a Ford dealer's used car lot. They were closed, but had several Mustangs there so I decided to take a look. Nothing particularly thrilled me - they had a 2013 GT CS convertible there which is what originally caught my eye, but in an really unfortunate color combo of Kona Blue, not a color I like, with black leather inside which should never be ordered in a convertible IMO - but what really struck me was a second car. It was a 2010 GT fastback, in silver which I do not often see on Mustangs here. It had a light colored leather interior - not sure of the shade, I thought I remembered they had a gray leather option, but this looked more like a putty color which really didn't go well with the silver. Anyway, what struck me was that the leather on the drivers seat was totally shot. No actual splits all the way through, but very worn and badly cracked everywhere, really quite unsightly. I have seen 20 year-old cars with better-looking leather. Made me wonder just what kind of leather quality Ford spec'ed for those seats. It would really need to be redone. They would have been far better off with a decent pleather rather than cheap leather.