What I notice is it seems that Mercedes has added many of "checks" that dealers once added onto the factory recommended services.
For instance, Acura's "A" service which is at about 10K miles is:
change oil reset oil reminder adjust valves if noisy.
Mercedes' "A" service which is at about the same 10K miles is:
reset maintenance minder change oil do 21 individual checks of various components.
Doing those 21 checks at the first oil change seems a bit much but it probably is supposed to show the dealer is doing the proper preventative maintenance. At future services, it's designed to allow the dealer to recommend repairs.
The discussion about service costs raises some questions for me. Although my cars are nice, I've not owned a "premium" brand. Just about every vehicle I've purchased over the past 10 years or so requires pretty mimimal service - oil changes and tire rotations are about it until the car gets to 100K and then you're possibly looking at spark plugs, coolant flush, etc. I'm talking about strictly following the scheduled maintenance guide. Now, that doesn't stop a dealership from selling packages of extra services that at least I think are unnecessary. Are they any more necessary for a premium brand car? Or does a Mercedes, BMW, etc really require that much more service according to their own scheduled service recommendations? I know service is where the real money is for a dealership so I get why "Service A, B or X" is pushed so hard but in the end, how important is it to pay premium prices for component inspections and the like?
Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one. I belong to the Mercedes Benz Club of America which not only gets me another $500 off the selling price of a new Mercedes, but also a nice discount on all parts used when the car was serviced. That includes filters, oils, coolant, brake pads, etc. I pay $137 every 15 months and it has paid off for me many, many times over.
The service intervals are 10,000 miles or 365 days, depending on what the in-car computer says about the next scheduled - sometimes when I pull up the info it shows the next scheduled service in miles and sometimes in days - depending on the sensors that measure engine and oil usage.
On the CLS 550, I ended up having the 1st service done 12 months after the in service date. But the dealer paid for it. Same will happen on the E400 - 12 months and paid for by the dealer - I was given first A Service on all my cars in the form of a coupon from the dealer.
As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.
The Acura A service is oil/filter, and their bazillion point check. Basically all fluids checked and topped, and brakes, tires, suspension all checked. I also get a sheet with the results. Mostly red yellow green check boxes, with brake pad and tire tread depth written down. They also do a battery test, and supply results slip.
All in about an hour, no appointment needed. Plus they wash it.
If she really wanted to go upscale, sounds like an an AWD V6 TLX would be a better option. The familiar aspect of the Honda, with the power and goodies. And cheap service costs. Heck, I took my old Acura TL to my Honda dealer because it was closer. They did not mind at all.
Stick...funny you mentioned that. I told her the same thing. If you like the C Class, look at a TLS SH AWD all loaded up with EVERYTHING for low $40s. Service costs same as the Accord.
I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change? I mean, there's only about 3 maybe 4 companies that make all the oil, synthetic and dino. There can't be THAT MUCH of a price difference between all of them. Add to that, all the electronic checks and balances in modern cars will tell you how your fluids are doing and if you need to change or check them.
My Caddy dealer does all those checks, as does my wife's Honda dealer. MY service is covered by Cadillac. My wife is a notorious coupon clipper. I think she ends up paying $40 with coupon for the oil changes, tire rotations and all the checks that Mercedes does. Not sure if the wife's Accord uses synthetic oil. I know the Caddy does. But, even there, add another $20 extra for synth and Mercedes service is still way out there.
I still get mailers from my BMW dealer offering $70 oil, filter changes with tire rotation and all the fluid, filters, belts and hoses checks.
Personally, if we ever buy a Benz, it won't happen until we find a good independent mechanic who can do all those things and at a much more reasonable price. Even there, I'd have to think twice. Caddy offers free routine maintenance for 4 years. BMW offers free maintenance and wearables for 4 years. Mercedes? Nope. Audi was the same as Mercedes....prepurchase and it's a bit cheaper. But, you're paying for it one way or the other. Not sure Audi would be on either of our shopping lists any time soon, though.
She told me last night how much she likes her Accord and the Benz would have been a total impulse buy. I welcomed her to my car buying world.
Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one.
That's where I was really going with all this so glad you mentioned it. If an owner stuck to what Mercedes, and not necessarily the dealer, recommends for service can Mercedes really yank the warranty for not having the extras done? I've heard the threat of this before but asking you as I know you spent years in the business. What has been your experience?
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
The Acura A service is oil/filter, and their bazillion point check. Basically all fluids checked and topped, and brakes, tires, suspension all checked. I also get a sheet with the results. Mostly red yellow green check boxes, with brake pad and tire tread depth written down. They also do a battery test, and supply results slip.
All in about an hour, no appointment needed. Plus they wash it.
I checked Acura's website for the details. The TSX "A" service is what I checked. The RDX has a couple of more things based on age:
6 Speed Automatic AWD - Recommended service: ◾Replace engine oil*1 ◾*1: If the message SERVICE does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the engine oil every year. ◾Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years. ◾Inspect idle speed every 160,000 miles (256,000 km). ◾Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 if they are noisy.
Thanks for the input, everyone. This is a non-sales story after all. (...) My wife asked the dealer for their service costs. Sales guy, without really telling us what those costs were, mentioned how much we would save if we pre-purchased service. So, we got more direct, and asked him what an oil change would cost. He said he didn't know. I also asked him what the price of the car was using my company's FEP discount. (...)
Not what I asked for and I told him. He went back to what I'll assume was his manager, and (...) Still not what I asked for. Long and short of it, they were loath to give us a price on the car....not matter how much, and which way I asked him. (...) Plus, he kept addressing me, and not my wife. I probably had to tell him 3 or 4 times "tell her the figures. She's the one buying. Not me.".
This is terrible. Wow. It almost begs a question to them "why do you keep doing this?". I can understand that the guy may not know the service prices from top of his head - it's not very common for people to ask about it and it may even be somewhat "political". But once the question is asked, it's his job to bring such information in full in front of you, or get you in front of a person who knows.
Same with price. That I cannot understand at all. Who the heck did he think he was talking to, 5-year olds? Simple question - price of the car. there is no ambiguity there. Seems like some people are simply impervious to world around them, no matter how world's changing. I think even Kia places shouldn't treat people like that, but for Mercedes Benz dealership to simply not listen to the customer, is beyond disappointing.
There is simply no excuse. I wonder if a management shakeup isn't coming there soon. Or ownership change even. Conversely, if that place is successful, it will be a very sad statement on American consumer.
AB...I've seen some leather in cars that looked horrific. But, it was usually in very hot climates (AZ, FL, NM, TX). If you leave any leather outside all the time (like a car) in the hot sun, where temps routinely reach 150 degrees inside the car, if you don't treat it, it's going to dry out. That's when it starts looking bad. Leather in my Caddy is good, as it was in my Acura and my BMW. Then again, my cars rarely are kept outside. They're mostly garaged and out of the sun. Only difference is when I go to the airport and park in the outside airport lots over night(s).
Important enough to keep the warranty in force, for one.
That's where I was really going with all this so glad you mentioned it. If an owner stuck to what Mercedes, and not necessarily the dealer, recommends for service can Mercedes really yank the warranty for not having the extras done? I've heard the threat of this before but asking you as I know you spent years in the business. What has been your experience?
I don't think Mercedes would do that so long as the oil is changed with filter as required and all other filters were replaced as required. One of the reasons it takes 2 hours of service time for an A Service is because of all the inspection done.
When they did my CLS 550 in November, I was able to see the work involved through a glass window adjacent to the waiting lounge area (they have 6 stalls/lifts there for Express Services for A Services).
First, all 4 tires were checked for wear and correct pressures. Next, all 4 wheels were were removed. Next, brake pads were inspected for wear using a caliper. Next, the oil was drained and oil filter replaced. The rear differential fluid was not only checked, but also inspected for proper color as well as smell (interesting). The dual exhaust and assemblies were inspected. Hood was raised and all fluids were checked and inspected. Belts were inspected and transmission fluid was inspected for quantity and again tested for smell.
Next, the headlights, running lights, directional lights, cornering lights and adaptive headlight motors checked. All rear lights were checked including front and rear fog lights. They had to replace 1 LED bulb or diode - forgot which it is.
They topped off all fluids and washer fluid reservoir. They inspected wiper blades and replaced them after checking with me (sun and heat plays havoc with blades down here). They then went into the car and checked all switches and functions. They then inserted some gadget just under the left front dash and did a readout of the car's computer. Then they inserted a DVD into my disc player and updated the GPS and other computer systems.
The car was then taken to the main service building at the back of the property for a car wash (interior and exterior) and I was presented with the paperwork. There was no charge for the wiper blades which surprised me. They noted everything they did along with an inspection review sheet. The whole process took 2-1/2 hours, not including wait time or car wash.
So it would seem that they do a tremendously thorough job on the car. Is it worth $300+ if I did not have a coupon for first service A free? To me - yes. They are an extremely busy dealership and their service department is 1st class.
I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change?
Graphic, you're missing the point. The outrageous pricing on those services is not based on actual cost of the service, or its breath and depth. In that department, there is some differential based on some of the components being truly more expensive, but that would only constitute 10-20 percent premium. The rest is margins from the manufacturer to the dealer (dealer probably also pays inflated costs vs. dealers of other brands), then multiplied by margins from the dealer to the customer. Those margins have to include the "free" stuff (actual cost), certifications (also actual cost) and the higher unit profit (lower volumes on luxury items have to translate to higher margins per unit). Markets are very efficient in extracting costs for high volume items through competition. However, low volume luxury items have different economics, the value is perceived differently. Unaccustomed customer is usually shocked at the differential.
This principal can be even better demonstrated in hospitality industry - up to a certain level, there is a race how much more they can provide you at a given price point. It's amazing how quickly major chains included internet (first wire, then wifi), or complimentary breakfast in the room, not to mention other things. Then, after you cross certain threshold of pricing, you discover that a room or suite were just a beginning of drainage of your wallet. I remember a Sheraton asking ten bucks, or something equally ridiculous, for internet less than four years ago, whereas Super 8 Motel (or Courtyard) would have it included in the price. I can only imagine price of internet at Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.
At least Mercedes takes the $300 for $60 service, but then lets you have $10 coffee, or $50 loaner for a day.
I think somebody doing service outside of dealerships, as long as they can well document them, will lose two things - benefit of the doubt and good will. By that I mean, they may use a smallest excuse to deny warranty, especially in expensive items (like blown engine or transmission). Also, if something falls out of warranty, but it's a more common occurrence, they will ask you to pony up for a repair, whereas a customer with track record of leaving thousands of bucks already, may actually get that item fixed either free, or at reduced cost. A good example may be my friend's 2010 (or so) C300 that had issue with a starter motor, reportedly quite common for those years. Lucky people got it fixed under warranty, unlucky people were at MB's mercy and results were all over the place, from free to full price. Another friend has Nissan Altima with meting dashboard. Same results.
Made me wonder just what kind of leather quality Ford spec'ed for those seats. It would really need to be redone. They would have been far better off with a decent pleather rather than cheap leather.
The condition in that 1 particular car doesn't necessarily speak to the quality of the leather. Just like anything else, you gotta take care of it. Look at older high-end cars and you'll see quite a discrepancy in the condition of the seats, too. Should a 2010 look that way? No. But we also don't know what the owner did to it. Could be they were cleaning it with starting fluid every week. haha.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.
And used car sales - is that the profit center leader?
mike - IMHO, that service is overkill for a 1 YO car with less than 10K miles on the clock. 20K+, yes.
As for the wiper blades, MB covers wipers for 1 yr/12K miles.
I was thinking that service was more appropriate for a B Service, but I saw what I saw - what can I tell you? As for wipers, I did not know that - I thought 6 months was the wiper warranty.
If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval. I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.
Verdugo, what surprises me is that the dealer did not request/require proof of insurance with limits of liability and deductibles from you prior to delivering the car. On purchases, all you need is proof of insurance, however on leases, it was always a requirement of the lessor (leasing company or division) that the insurance coverages be submitted with the lease. The fault here lies with the dealership for not verifying the limits of insurance when you leased the car.
Legally, you are required to provide insurance coverages as outlined/required under the terms of the lease agreement. But the dealer is at fault for not making sure you had the proper coverages before you left their dealership with the leased vehicle.
Good point Mike.
I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
"I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it."
Peanuts, verdugo, considering what everything costs today. I still couldn't fill my tank with gasoline for $28.00.
On on the other hand, depending on the car you drive and its age, going from $1500 to $250 deductible collision coverage might have cost you $125+ a year.
Ownership of luxury cars can come with expensive maintenance. If you want value pricing, do like I did and buy a Buick. $45 oil changes with an inspection report. But my Buick is not a Mercedes Benz. I can afford a MB but it just doesn't interest me -- I don't drive enough and I'm busy spending money on other things. If I did buy one, I wouldn't be concerned about the service costs. It comes with the territory. Repair costs after the warranty expires are another matter. To each his/her own.
"I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it."
Peanuts, verdugo, considering what everything costs today. I still couldn't fill my tank with gasoline for $28.00.
On on the other hand, depending on the car you drive and its age, going from $1500 to $250 deductible collision coverage might have cost you $125+ a year.
Glad everything worked out for you.
Funny you should say that .. I just filled up my Hyundai Elantra for $28 yesterday.
mike - If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval. I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.
Must not comment. Must not comment....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.
And used car sales - is that the profit center leader?
I think it all depends on what the dealer does regarding his used car department. Does the dealer emphasize used car sales by making commissions more attractive to sales personnel? Are the new car and used car departments under different management divisions? Does the dealer try to certify his vehicles if it's a brand he sells? What about physical space devoted to used cars? If it's a high-end dealership it might be. The lower end dealerships usually keep lower profit vehicles on their lots.
The dealership I buy from devotes 1/2 of his showroom floor to pre-owned. Additionally, the entire front of his dealership is devoted to pre-owned.
When most dealerships kept used car departments separate from new cars (salesmen devoted exclusively to new or used, not both), higher profit margins usually resulted because used car salesmen knew everything about their inventory. If a new car salesman decides it's best to turn over a customer to the used car department, he would get a bonus if a car was sold. Also, more attention is given to used car sales when used cars were separate from new cars.
In general, there is usually more money to be made in used cars, but service, in most large dealerships, brings in more.
mike - If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval. I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.
Must not comment. Must not comment....
You never know Fezo, one of these "years" I'm going to keep my cars long enough to worry about things lik that. Eventually, money and needs, wants and desires come into conflict with each other. That time is fast approaching for me. If I knew I was going to live to be 80+, I'd spend money on other things. But I'll be lucky to make it to 75, and I do mean lucky.
I think somebody doing service outside of dealerships, as long as they can well document them, will lose two things - benefit of the doubt and good will. By that I mean, they may use a smallest excuse to deny warranty, especially in expensive items (like blown engine or transmission). Also, if something falls out of warranty, but it's a more common occurrence, they will ask you to pony up for a repair, whereas a customer with track record of leaving thousands of bucks already, may actually get that item fixed either free, or at reduced cost. A good example may be my friend's 2010 (or so) C300 that had issue with a starter motor, reportedly quite common for those years. Lucky people got it fixed under warranty, unlucky people were at MB's mercy and results were all over the place, from free to full price. Another friend has Nissan Altima with meting dashboard. Same results.
As I've said before, I'm blessed to have a great BMW dealer and a great Mazda dealer- neither of them push unnecessary work and both charge very reasonable prices for service and repairs. In the case of my BMW dealer I recieve a 20% discount off both parts and labor- 10% for being a member of BMW CCA and 10% for being a "VIP" customer(multiple vehicle purchases, etc.).
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Sales vs Gross Profit amounts and ratio on retail vehicle sales
Penske New car sales 52% vs 27% .51 Used car sales 30% vs 14% .46 F&I 3% vs 18% 6.0 Service & Parts 10% vs 41% 4.1 Fleet 5% vs 0% 0
Auto nation New Car Sales 57% vs 22% .39 Used Car Sales 23% vs 12% .52 F&I 4% vs 25% 6.25 Service & Parts 15% vs 40% 2.67 Other 1% vs 1% 0
As you can see, F&I has the highest profit margins and service and parts is where the most revenue and profits are generated. Although it's only two companies, it can be extrapolated across other dealerships.
I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change?
Graphic, you're missing the point. The outrageous pricing on those services is not based on actual cost of the service, or its breath and depth. In that department, there is some differential based on some of the components being truly more expensive, but that would only constitute 10-20 percent premium. The rest is margins from the manufacturer to the dealer (dealer probably also pays inflated costs vs. dealers of other brands), then multiplied by margins from the dealer to the customer. Those margins have to include the "free" stuff (actual cost), certifications (also actual cost) and the higher unit profit (lower volumes on luxury items have to translate to higher margins per unit). Markets are very efficient in extracting costs for high volume items through competition. However, low volume luxury items have different economics, the value is perceived differently. Unaccustomed customer is usually shocked at the differential.
This principal can be even better demonstrated in hospitality industry - up to a certain level, there is a race how much more they can provide you at a given price point. It's amazing how quickly major chains included internet (first wire, then wifi), or complimentary breakfast in the room, not to mention other things. Then, after you cross certain threshold of pricing, you discover that a room or suite were just a beginning of drainage of your wallet. I remember a Sheraton asking ten bucks, or something equally ridiculous, for internet less than four years ago, whereas Super 8 Motel (or Courtyard) would have it included in the price. I can only imagine price of internet at Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.
At least Mercedes takes the $300 for $60 service, but then lets you have $10 coffee, or $50 loaner for a day.
dino....they can charge whatever they want. I can't tell them how to price their service. That's their responsibility. From what I'm reading, the Benz pricing is the same regardless of geographic region.
My Caddy dealer gives free loaners, as did my Acura dealer and my BMW dealer, too. They all offer fresh pastries, high end coffee, juices and sodas in their waiting areas. My Caddy dealer offers the use of a conference room and my own cubicle with WiFi to plug in my laptop, complete with printer. Free car washes, too.
So, I guess it looks like Mercedes chooses to price their service higher than their competition. I don't see much, if any difference to justify those charges. It's not a little higher, either. It's a LOT higher....7X, 8X even 9X the pricie of their competitors. But, that's the way they want to do it.
Mike, I mean no disrespect. I know you and driver love your cars, as you should. However, I do get similar service and the prices aren't anywhere near what Mercedes charges. They choose to price it the way they do. Their business, not mine.
But, at the end of the day, it cost them a customer (my wife). Frankly, I was totally expecting her to jump on that C400 we drove over the weekend. She even asked me if I would sell her Accord for her. But, that deal came to a screeching halt when she found out about the service prices. I'm sure she's in the minority as many don't even think about service prices until AFTER they buy their car. That's not my wife, though.
Ownership of luxury cars can come with expensive maintenance. If you want value pricing, do like I did and buy a Buick. $45 oil changes with an inspection report. But my Buick is not a Mercedes Benz. I can afford a MB but it just doesn't interest me -- I don't drive enough and I'm busy spending money on other things. If I did buy one, I wouldn't be concerned about the service costs. It comes with the territory. Repair costs after the warranty expires are another matter. To each his/her own.
If maintenance and repair costs were a real concern I wouldn't drive an MB.
No one wants to pay high repair/maintenance cost.
I try to keep it under control as much as possible though. Try to have a car that is under warranty and buy the maintenance package.
If I kept the car past the warranty I would probably get it repaired at an indie garage.
I see more older MBs than any other car, so maybe though the actual repairs/maintenance bills are high, the cost of ownership over say 20 years may actually be less.
Graphicguy, your observations are, as always, insightful as well as correct, IMHO. One does not consider all of the factors and variables of long term ownership of an expensive or higher priced new vehicle.
BMW is almost maintenance free for 4 years including brakes, fan belts, etc. That is what originally drew me to buy 4 different 5 series Bimmers. But then other factors drew me to Mercedes-Benz.
I prefer the ride, handling, styling, comfort and build quality of the Mercedes-Benz. So, I considered the trade-offs of paying for service and made my decision. The trade values of my Mercedes-Benz vehicles have been better as well since my dealer values my trades quite above wholesale because of the way I take care of my cars and the fairly low mileage they are turned in at.
It's all a matter of perspective - but aren't most things?
The answer is simple - YES they can set limits of required insurance. $1000 deductible collision is the highest deductible allowed on every lease I've ever seen. $100,000-$300,000 are the minimum limits allowed on all leases I've ever seen for liability coverage.
You signed the lease and the lease specifies the minimum limits and what you are required to have.
The difference in premium should not be very much. As for returning the vehicle, you can, but you must make all the remaining payments and pay an early termination fee. Or trade the Jeep in on a new one - but you will be very unhappy with the trade allowance on the current Jeep.
Just pay the few extra bucks for going from $1500 to $1000 deductible collision. The big difference in premium would be if you had to go to $500 or $250 deductible.
Thanks Mike. To be honest I had never thought to check for a deductible limit in the contract.
I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow.
Speaking of insurance...
Louisiana is the most expensive state to be a poor driver in. Its annual base premium of $3,147 is the second highest in the country behind Michigan. And being a bad driver will really pile on the cost. Ouch!
Getting into two accidents in a year adds $2,953 a year to a driver's premium, while getting convicted for a DUI adds $1,946 per year. Being caught for reckless driving adds $1,427 a year, while driving with a suspended license adds $1,393 per year, according to WalletHub. Source: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13143555/10/10-worst-states-to-be-a-terrible-driver.html
In 2010, I moved from Idaho (51st) to Michigan (3rd). That was painful. NM is middling okay at #27.
I live in Florida - but rates vary by zip codes. My brother has an identical E 400 sedan up in Ponte Vedra FL and pays 1/2 of what I pay here in the far northern suburbs of Ft. Launderdale for identical coverages. Just 15 miles north of where I live I would pay 1/3 less per year.
I don't know where FL rates stand in comparison to other States, but when I lived in the Poconos (PA), I paid $290 ever 6 months.
Because we are a partial no-fault State, we were supposed to have lower rates, but they actually increased 25% because of the fraud involved with the Personal Injury Coverages we are forced to carry.
I have a selling story but it's not very exciting. I purchased a 2014 Jeep Wrangler last week so I decided to sell my 1997. I listed it on Craigslist last Wednesday. The first person that contacted me was also the first to actually come look at it and they bought it. He was just about to turn 18 so his parents were involved. I don't text much but this kid texted a lot of questions. I had to get comfortable in the new world I was asking $5800, he offered $5300 and we settled on $5500. He looked at it Sunday evening and brought cash Monday afternoon.
2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
I have a selling story but it's not very exciting. I purchased a 2014 Jeep Wrangler last week so I decided to sell my 1997. I listed it on Craigslist last Wednesday. The first person that contacted me was also the first to actually come look at it and they bought it. He was just about to turn 18 so his parents were involved. I don't text much but this kid texted a lot of questions. I had to get comfortable in the new world I was asking $5800, he offered $5300 and we settled on $5500. He looked at it Sunday evening and brought cash Monday afternoon.
Sounds picture perfect - and again congrats on the wheels.
2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
Oh, it shows up all right! For a moment I thought I had more serious eye troubles than I do or that someone slipped a hallucinogen in my drink and then realized it's indeed three separate vehicles...
Leaving in 20 minutes or so for the 5. Likely well into the night by the time I'm back.
When I have pictures the lawn won't look at all like that....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.
Let me guess.....you really love the color red!
Jeeps look really cute, and they look great in red. Too bad you can't keep them all. I can't tell which is the new one and which is the older one....that's a good thing. I wouldn't mind one for $5500!
@driver100 Jeep has done a good job of adding modern features but staying true to the vehicle, in my opinion.
My first Wrangler was a brand new 1990 and it was white. I've also owned a burgundy TJ and a green Sahara (back when they were only available with green paint). I purchased all of the red ones used. I like red but I would have gone with another color if one had come my way.
2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
GG for what it is worth the service intervals are usually 1 year or ~ 11,000 miles - at least that is the case for my 08 C350. Given that the service is way more expensive, but the frequency was half that of my Mazda 3 I was comfortable making the leap.
I have done the annual services and when it developed a leak in an AC line one year out of warranty MBUSA (with input from the dealer) fixed it for free. I have only needed one repair - an oil leak from a couple of seals on the rear of the valve train covers. The dealer fixed for less than $300 - was expected 2 -3x more, and in fact was getting ready to tackle myself.
Net net, the service does cost more, but in my case it is not 7x-9x more.
Now back to my secret plan to upgrade my current C 350 with a C 450 Sport when they arrive later this fall...
@murphydog: Murph, I think that C450 will have the same 3.0 L V6 as I have in my car, but I know they've always had plans to increase that bi-turbo's horsepower.
Additionally, there's a new inline 6 coming out next Spring in the 2017 E along with the 3.0 L V6. I heard rumors they are doing away with the "350" engine (3.5 L V6 302 horsepower)
It's all a matter of perspective - but aren't most things
Truer words have never been spoken.....;)
I think at some point my wife may end up with a Mercedes. I think the shock of the service will wear off. She liked the C400 that much.
Me personally? If I were going to make a move in the Benz family it would probably be to the CLA AMG (which the KY dealer also had). They offered a test drive. But, I knew I would be too tempted if I took them up on their offer.
I'm just now getting used to a comfortable ride in a good handling car. If I went back to a rocket, I'd never be comfortable again......LOL!
@Michaell: Sorry, I didn't pick that up at first. AMG is a "horse of a different color" in any model, to be sure. Different suspensions, interiors, hand made engines, to name a few.
Comments
For instance, Acura's "A" service which is at about 10K miles is:
change oil
reset oil reminder
adjust valves if noisy.
Mercedes' "A" service which is at about the same 10K miles is:
reset maintenance minder
change oil
do 21 individual checks of various components.
Doing those 21 checks at the first oil change seems a bit much but it probably is supposed to show the dealer is doing the proper preventative maintenance. At future services, it's designed to allow the dealer to recommend repairs.
The service intervals are 10,000 miles or 365 days, depending on what the in-car computer says about the next scheduled - sometimes when I pull up the info it shows the next scheduled service in miles and sometimes in days - depending on the sensors that measure engine and oil usage.
On the CLS 550, I ended up having the 1st service done 12 months after the in service date. But the dealer paid for it. Same will happen on the E400 - 12 months and paid for by the dealer - I was given first A Service on all my cars in the form of a coupon from the dealer.
As for where dealerships make most of their money - service is a big part of it but manufacturer incentives in the form of Customer Satisfaction Index and extra incentives on exceeding sales goals as well as meeting them is where a greater amount comes from.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
All in about an hour, no appointment needed. Plus they wash it.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I hear what some of you are saying about service on a Mercedes, but I'm not a car neophyte. How many checks can they do? Hoses? Brake Fluid? Power Steering fluid (maybe not that since I think the steering may be electric driven)? Radiator? Tires? Air filter? Cabin Filter? Oil and filter change? I mean, there's only about 3 maybe 4 companies that make all the oil, synthetic and dino. There can't be THAT MUCH of a price difference between all of them. Add to that, all the electronic checks and balances in modern cars will tell you how your fluids are doing and if you need to change or check them.
My Caddy dealer does all those checks, as does my wife's Honda dealer. MY service is covered by Cadillac. My wife is a notorious coupon clipper. I think she ends up paying $40 with coupon for the oil changes, tire rotations and all the checks that Mercedes does. Not sure if the wife's Accord uses synthetic oil. I know the Caddy does. But, even there, add another $20 extra for synth and Mercedes service is still way out there.
I still get mailers from my BMW dealer offering $70 oil, filter changes with tire rotation and all the fluid, filters, belts and hoses checks.
Personally, if we ever buy a Benz, it won't happen until we find a good independent mechanic who can do all those things and at a much more reasonable price. Even there, I'd have to think twice. Caddy offers free routine maintenance for 4 years. BMW offers free maintenance and wearables for 4 years. Mercedes? Nope. Audi was the same as Mercedes....prepurchase and it's a bit cheaper. But, you're paying for it one way or the other. Not sure Audi would be on either of our shopping lists any time soon, though.
She told me last night how much she likes her Accord and the Benz would have been a total impulse buy. I welcomed her to my car buying world.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That's where I was really going with all this so glad you mentioned it. If an owner stuck to what Mercedes, and not necessarily the dealer, recommends for service can Mercedes really yank the warranty for not having the extras done? I've heard the threat of this before but asking you as I know you spent years in the business. What has been your experience?
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
6 Speed Automatic AWD - Recommended service:
◾Replace engine oil*1
◾*1: If the message SERVICE does not appear more than 12 months after the display is reset, change the engine oil every year.
◾Independent of the Maintenance Minder information, replace the brake fluid every 3 years.
◾Inspect idle speed every 160,000 miles (256,000 km).
◾Adjust the valves during services A, B, 1, 2, or 3 if they are noisy.
Same with price. That I cannot understand at all. Who the heck did he think he was talking to, 5-year olds? Simple question - price of the car. there is no ambiguity there. Seems like some people are simply impervious to world around them, no matter how world's changing. I think even Kia places shouldn't treat people like that, but for Mercedes Benz dealership to simply not listen to the customer, is beyond disappointing.
There is simply no excuse. I wonder if a management shakeup isn't coming there soon. Or ownership change even. Conversely, if that place is successful, it will be a very sad statement on American consumer.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
When they did my CLS 550 in November, I was able to see the work involved through a glass window adjacent to the waiting lounge area (they have 6 stalls/lifts there for Express Services for A Services).
First, all 4 tires were checked for wear and correct pressures. Next, all 4 wheels were were removed. Next, brake pads were inspected for wear using a caliper. Next, the oil was drained and oil filter replaced. The rear differential fluid was not only checked, but also inspected for proper color as well as smell (interesting). The dual exhaust and assemblies were inspected. Hood was raised and all fluids were checked and inspected. Belts were inspected and transmission fluid was inspected for quantity and again tested for smell.
Next, the headlights, running lights, directional lights, cornering lights and adaptive headlight motors checked. All rear lights were checked including front and rear fog lights. They had to replace 1 LED bulb or diode - forgot which it is.
They topped off all fluids and washer fluid reservoir. They inspected wiper blades and replaced them after checking with me (sun and heat plays havoc with blades down here). They then went into the car and checked all switches and functions. They then inserted some gadget just under the left front dash and did a readout of the car's computer. Then they inserted a DVD into my disc player and updated the GPS and other computer systems.
The car was then taken to the main service building at the back of the property for a car wash (interior and exterior) and I was presented with the paperwork. There was no charge for the wiper blades which surprised me. They noted everything they did along with an inspection review sheet. The whole process took 2-1/2 hours, not including wait time or car wash.
So it would seem that they do a tremendously thorough job on the car. Is it worth $300+ if I did not have a coupon for first service A free? To me - yes. They are an extremely busy dealership and their service department is 1st class.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
This principal can be even better demonstrated in hospitality industry - up to a certain level, there is a race how much more they can provide you at a given price point. It's amazing how quickly major chains included internet (first wire, then wifi), or complimentary breakfast in the room, not to mention other things. Then, after you cross certain threshold of pricing, you discover that a room or suite were just a beginning of drainage of your wallet. I remember a Sheraton asking ten bucks, or something equally ridiculous, for internet less than four years ago, whereas Super 8 Motel (or Courtyard) would have it included in the price. I can only imagine price of internet at Ritz Carlton in Manhattan.
At least Mercedes takes the $300 for $60 service, but then lets you have $10 coffee, or $50 loaner for a day.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2018 430i Gran Coupe
As for the wiper blades, MB covers wipers for 1 yr/12K miles.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
If if I was going to keep a Mercedes for 4+ years, I would definitely want services like that every service interval. I am a stickler for catching problems well before they create bigger/costlier problems down the line.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it.
"I called my insurance company. Premium for the year went up $28, so not the end of the world. I've submitted proof to Chrysler. Hopefully this will be the end of it."
Peanuts, verdugo, considering what everything costs today. I still couldn't fill my tank with gasoline for $28.00.
On on the other hand, depending on the car you drive and its age, going from $1500 to $250 deductible collision coverage might have cost you $125+ a year.
Glad everything worked out for you.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
The dealership I buy from devotes 1/2 of his showroom floor to pre-owned. Additionally, the entire front of his dealership is devoted to pre-owned.
When most dealerships kept used car departments separate from new cars (salesmen devoted exclusively to new or used, not both), higher profit margins usually resulted because used car salesmen knew everything about their inventory. If a new car salesman decides it's best to turn over a customer to the used car department, he would get a bonus if a car was sold. Also, more attention is given to used car sales when used cars were separate from new cars.
In general, there is usually more money to be made in used cars, but service, in most large dealerships, brings in more.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Sales vs Gross Profit amounts and ratio on retail vehicle sales
Penske
New car sales 52% vs 27% .51
Used car sales 30% vs 14% .46
F&I 3% vs 18% 6.0
Service & Parts 10% vs 41% 4.1
Fleet 5% vs 0% 0
Auto nation
New Car Sales 57% vs 22% .39
Used Car Sales 23% vs 12% .52
F&I 4% vs 25% 6.25
Service & Parts 15% vs 40% 2.67
Other 1% vs 1% 0
As you can see, F&I has the highest profit margins and service and parts is where the most revenue and profits are generated. Although it's only two companies, it can be extrapolated across other dealerships.
My Caddy dealer gives free loaners, as did my Acura dealer and my BMW dealer, too. They all offer fresh pastries, high end coffee, juices and sodas in their waiting areas. My Caddy dealer offers the use of a conference room and my own cubicle with WiFi to plug in my laptop, complete with printer. Free car washes, too.
So, I guess it looks like Mercedes chooses to price their service higher than their competition. I don't see much, if any difference to justify those charges. It's not a little higher, either. It's a LOT higher....7X, 8X even 9X the pricie of their competitors. But, that's the way they want to do it.
Mike, I mean no disrespect. I know you and driver love your cars, as you should. However, I do get similar service and the prices aren't anywhere near what Mercedes charges. They choose to price it the way they do. Their business, not mine.
But, at the end of the day, it cost them a customer (my wife). Frankly, I was totally expecting her to jump on that C400 we drove over the weekend. She even asked me if I would sell her Accord for her. But, that deal came to a screeching halt when she found out about the service prices. I'm sure she's in the minority as many don't even think about service prices until AFTER they buy their car. That's not my wife, though.
No one wants to pay high repair/maintenance cost.
I try to keep it under control as much as possible though. Try to have a car that is under warranty and buy the maintenance package.
If I kept the car past the warranty I would probably get it repaired at an indie garage.
I see more older MBs than any other car, so maybe though the actual repairs/maintenance bills are high, the cost of ownership over say 20 years may actually be less.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
BMW is almost maintenance free for 4 years including brakes, fan belts, etc. That is what originally drew me to buy 4 different 5 series Bimmers. But then other factors drew me to Mercedes-Benz.
I prefer the ride, handling, styling, comfort and build quality of the Mercedes-Benz. So, I considered the trade-offs of paying for service and made my decision. The trade values of my Mercedes-Benz vehicles have been better as well since my dealer values my trades quite above wholesale because of the way I take care of my cars and the fairly low mileage they are turned in at.
It's all a matter of perspective - but aren't most things?
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow.
Speaking of insurance...
Louisiana is the most expensive state to be a poor driver in. Its annual base premium of $3,147 is the second highest in the country behind Michigan. And being a bad driver will really pile on the cost. Ouch!
Getting into two accidents in a year adds $2,953 a year to a driver's premium, while getting convicted for a DUI adds $1,946 per year. Being caught for reckless driving adds $1,427 a year, while driving with a suspended license adds $1,393 per year, according to WalletHub.
Source: http://www.thestreet.com/story/13143555/10/10-worst-states-to-be-a-terrible-driver.html
I don't know where FL rates stand in comparison to other States, but when I lived in the Poconos (PA), I paid $290 ever 6 months.
Because we are a partial no-fault State, we were supposed to have lower rates, but they actually increased 25% because of the fraud involved with the Personal Injury Coverages we are forced to carry.
It's a sham!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
For the weekend I owned one of each Wrangler generation - YJ, TJ and JK. Hope the picture shows up and isn't sideways.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Leaving in 20 minutes or so for the 5. Likely well into the night by the time I'm back.
When I have pictures the lawn won't look at all like that....
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Thanks Mike. To be honest I had never thought to check for a deductible limit in the contract.
I'll call my insurance agent tomorrow.
,
I don't feel too sorry for anyone in those last 3 categories.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Jeeps look really cute, and they look great in red. Too bad you can't keep them all. I can't tell which is the new one and which is the older one....that's a good thing. I wouldn't mind one for $5500!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
at least my plan to move to NC (#4) keeps looking better and better!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
My first Wrangler was a brand new 1990 and it was white. I've also owned a burgundy TJ and a green Sahara (back when they were only available with green paint). I purchased all of the red ones used. I like red but I would have gone with another color if one had come my way.
GG for what it is worth the service intervals are usually 1 year or ~ 11,000 miles - at least that is the case for my 08 C350. Given that the service is way more expensive, but the frequency was half that of my Mazda 3 I was comfortable making the leap.
I have done the annual services and when it developed a leak in an AC line one year out of warranty MBUSA (with input from the dealer) fixed it for free. I have only needed one repair - an oil leak from a couple of seals on the rear of the valve train covers. The dealer fixed for less than $300 - was expected 2 -3x more, and in fact was getting ready to tackle myself.
Net net, the service does cost more, but in my case it is not 7x-9x more.
Now back to my secret plan to upgrade my current C 350 with a C 450 Sport when they arrive later this fall...
Additionally, there's a new inline 6 coming out next Spring in the 2017 E along with the 3.0 L V6. I heard rumors they are doing away with the "350" engine (3.5 L V6 302 horsepower)
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I think at some point my wife may end up with a Mercedes. I think the shock of the service will wear off. She liked the C400 that much.
Me personally? If I were going to make a move in the Benz family it would probably be to the CLA AMG (which the KY dealer also had). They offered a test drive. But, I knew I would be too tempted if I took them up on their offer.
I'm just now getting used to a comfortable ride in a good handling car. If I went back to a rocket, I'd never be comfortable again......LOL!
I thought your picture was a quiz to see if we could figure out which one is the one you sold.
Truthfully, I have no idea.
I think 329 horsepower/354 lb ft torque is a bit too much for a C Class sedan. 280-300 hp would be ideal. Just my opinion as an old fogey.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger