Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

graphicguy said:

driver.....Everything in your vehicle resets after 6 weeks? What exactly does that mean? D you have to reset the clock and radio stations as a result? Or, does the car go completely immobile (and why)? They sit on the lot or in shipping containers sometimes for months. Does that mean all those vehicles are on trickle chargers?

Will Mercedes give you a charge/jump if their battery goes dead?

Or, is it a way for them to sell you something you may not really need? What's the difference between the Mercedes trickle charger and the $30 one you can buy from Sears?

The manual doesn't explain why. It just says could be costly or dangerous, after 4 weeks and really serious after 6 weeks.

I am just guessing that settings would have to be redone........would like to know.

I am sure a $30 trickle charger would work, but will they void the warranty if something goes wrong?

The clock and radio are probably not set up until the car reaches the dealer.

I'll have to find out more.....good questions for Mike to find out if he can. If not I will do some research myself.

nyccarguy

I know we could go round and round about the modern electronics and computers that run today's automobiles. I parked my Prelude in my driveway sometime in early November, uncovered. I cleared the mountain of snow off of it sometime in early April. Fired up without hesitation the 1st time.

driver100

nyccarguy said:

I know we could go round and round about the modern electronics and computers that run today's automobiles. I parked my Prelude in my driveway sometime in early November, uncovered. I cleared the mountain of snow off of it sometime in early April. Fired up without hesitation the 1st time.

Yeh, but does it run GPS, Media, blind spot warnings, electric seats, camera, learn the way you shift gears, automatic temperature, tire pressure, have led lights inside and out, and who knows what else?

abacomike

Driver, relax!  You would only need to have a trickle charger for your wife's SUV when you are in Florida.  So call Mercedes and ask them what type you need and just buy one just before you leave in November.  

Or or you can ask your daughter to start the MB and use it every 2-3 weeks when you are away.  This is a low level issue which should not cause you or your family any apoplexy problems! 

Mr_Shiftright

Mercedes is giving my friend with the new C class the same runaround as GG is getting. Basically, it's "we don't know what's wrong so we're sharing info with the factory"......a not-so comforting response on a dead car with 2600 miles on it, I must say.

dino001

So now we should start beating on Benz. It really is disappointing what how "we stand by our product 100 percent" turns into "we don't know what the problem is, so it's no longer a problem for us".

stickguy

The dark side to modern, highly complex cars

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I wasn't beating on them. I think stickguy has his finger on the problem. They aren't trained to fix the cars they sell. I'm sure they'd like to fix it just as much as the owner would like it fixed.

bwia

edit:

Just received the 60th. anniversary of Car and Driver. Wow, how cars and technology have changed in that time. What has remained constant is price, considering the significant improvements in safety, comfort, power and efficiency. According to C&D, the average car price in 1955 was $2,506 (or $21,948 in today's dollars) compared to an average price of $33,993 for a new car in 2015.

Some other cool tidbits:
-- the first turbo charger was offered by Oldsmobile in 1962
-- the 1977 Honda Accord had a 68-hp I-4 engine compared to 189-hp today
-- the airbag was first offered as optional equipment in the 1974 - 1976 Buick, Cadillac and Olds sedans
-- the 1987 Buick Rivera came out with a touch sensitive 4-inch CRT display with audio, climate control, and trip functions; the precursor to today's telematics and infotainment systems.

graphicguy

bwia said:

Just received the 60th. anniversary of Car and Driver. Wow, how cars and technology in that time. What has remained constant is price. Considering the significant improvement in safety,

I get the digital edition of C&D. So, I had it last week. I was on a plane flying to TX for 2 hours...read it cover t ocover. Great issue. I started reading C&D back in the '80s when I first took an interest in cars with Yates, Lindamood/Jennings, Csesre, O'Roark, Davis and all those other folks I loved to read. Sad when most of them bolted for AUTOMOBILE, which was a poor imitation of C&D.

C&D has lost some of the irreverence and gone corporate these days....not nearly as interesting. Still, great issue. Always loved Lindamood's writing, and found it interesting that she was hired as the token femaie, but couldn't drive competitively and only had a little experience working as a scheduler for Chrysler. But, she got the job.

Seeing the evolution of the Corvette was pretty cool, too. Letters to Ed (editor) over the years were hilarious.

qbrozen

bwia said:

Just received the 60th. anniversary of Car and Driver. Wow, how cars and technology have changed in that time. What has remained constant is price. Considering the significant improvement in safety, comfort, power and efficiency. According to C&D, the average car price in 1955 was $2,506 (or $21,948 in today's dollars) compared to average price of $33,993 new car in 2015.

Well, that's far from constant pricing. I was noticing the price changes, as well. They have gotten significantly more expensive, even in relative terms. Certainly, the cars have improved, but it doesn't change the fact that cars make a bigger impact on our wallets than they used to.

ab348

When I have seen C&D in recent years - usually copies are in the waiting room at the tire shop I use - it has been a pale imitation of what I remember of it from the late '60s to the early '90s when I gave it up. I don't know if the writers were actually better back then or if I was just more easily impressed. But the list of those whose work I liked seeing there was long. David E. Davis, Leon Mandel, Charles Fox, Brock Yates, Pat Bedard, and even some of the columnists like Dick Smothers, Gordon Baxter, Jean Shepherd, PJ O'Rourke, Bruce McCall. Never cared for Lindamood and Jeanes.

Michaell

I remember my mom getting me a subscription to C&D when I was a teenager - '77 or so. Been reading it pretty consistently ever since.

driver100

abacomike said:

Driver, relax!  You would only need to have a trickle charger for your wife's SUV when you are in Florida.  So call Mercedes and ask them what type you need and just buy one just before you leave in November.  

Or or you can ask your daughter to start the MB and use it every 2-3 weeks when you are away.  This is a low level issue which should not cause you or your family any apoplexy problems! 

The reason I mentioned it was because not too many people know about it...and it might apply to other cars.

Our daughter is very responsible so I am sure she would take the car for a spin every 3 weeks, but I don't like to have to ask....she is pretty busy, but, would do it.

I have to find out if a regular store bought trickle charger is acceptable, or, if something goes wrong MB will insist you have an MB trickle charger.

My friends Maserati had a built in trickle charger in the trunk...for this very reason. He came back after a 4 week trip and his car was dead.....they told him it should be on a trickle charger.

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Mercedes is giving my friend with the new C class the same runaround as GG is getting. Basically, it's "we don't know what's wrong so we're sharing info with the factory"......a not-so comforting response on a dead car with 2600 miles on it, I must say.

I think these problems can happen with any make of car. It is how the problem is being treated. I thought all Mercedes technicians are trained from the factory - or at least trained to know the cars inside out. I don't think this incident is the same because they are offering to find a solution.....if they leave him high and dry then it becomes the same as GGs situation.

I heard a story about a person going to Germany to see their MB built, driving away, and the car stalling as they left the parking lot. Mercedes wouldn't fix the car at the plant. They were supposed to drive through Europe for 2 weeks but spent two weeks trying to get their car fixed. I got the story 3rd or 4th hand so although it is amusing the whole story means nothing, and I am only telling it because GGs story is first hand.

roadburner

I really like how Road and Track has evolved over the past couple of years. Their critiques are sometimes as scathing as the ones you find in CAR or Top Gear.
Example: Their recent comparison test of an FR-S, an EcoBoost Mustang(with the Performance Pkg) and a 228i(with the Track Handling Package). A few relevant quotes:

With absolutely no feedback coming through its steering wheel, the 228i is a bear to manage at its limits with stability control off, first understeering considerably, then flinging itself sideways at inopportune moments.

...more Buick than Bimmer. Every time we stop, the 228i's driver begs to get into something else.

The Mustang meanwhile, feels more like a BMW than the BMW.

robr2

There are always examples of things gone wrong in the auto world. From another forum:

Central Germany/The Sticks: A Canadian couple wanted to fulfill themselves a dream: Pick up their new Porsche 911 GT 3 (almost 500 hp, 140,000 Euros) at the factory in Leipzig. After a mere 70 km (45ish miles) on the Autobahn A9 near Eisenberg, there's smoke in the interior. The wife stopped immediately on the breakdown lane. There they saw flames around the front wheel. The couple has no choice but to watch their dream car go down in flames. The fire department couldn't do anything but extinguish the fire in the burned out wreck. Besides the car, the roadway also damaged.

http://www.thueringen-reporter.de/27...lammen-auf.htm

Update after further, extensive research (putting the right keywords into DerGuhgel.de:

The manufacturer Porsche suspects a problem with the car's electronics as the cause of the fire. Porsche spokesman Hans-Gerd Bode said the burned out car has been brought back to the factory to be examined by experts.

The car was picked up at the factory by Canadian buyers on Saturday, May 23rd. They wanted to tour Europe for a few weeks and then the car was to be shipped to Canada. They have received a replacement car for now, but will have to wait four to six months for their new GT3.

http://www.mdr.de/thueringen/ost-thu...tobahn102.html




Back to lurking.....

stickguy

Sad.

ab348

At least they didn't deny warranty coverage due to driver error/abuse.

driver100

ab348 said:

At least they didn't deny warranty coverage due to driver error/abuse.

Hope they gave the factory a 10 out of 10 on their survey

graphicguy

Being gouged again.....

http://time.com/money/3848547/gas-prices-rise-drivers-gouged/

fezo

Well, Tesla called. I told them right off that there was no way I could afford one and I just said sure because I got that email. They said come on over and made mean appointment for next Tuesday (could have been tomorrow or Friday but no can do). This will be fun. Nearest dealer is 80 miles away in Pennsylvania but I bought my last two cars in Pennsylvania so I'll be all right. Should be fun.

Mr_Shiftright

You'll enjoy your test drive. The car really is a rocket ship because you have all that HP available at 0 rpm. It's a very interesting sensation. It's a big car, though, and it feels like it.

graphicguy

fezo said:

Well, Tesla called. I told them right off that there was no way I could afford one and I just said sure because I got that email. They said come on over and made mean appointment for next Tuesday (could have been tomorrow or Friday but no can do). This will be fun. Nearest dealer is 80 miles away in Pennsylvania but I bought my last two cars in Pennsylvania so I'll be all right. Should be fun.

I'm Jealous!

bwia

qbrozen said:

bwia said:

Just received the 60th. anniversary of Car and Driver. Wow, how cars and technology have changed in that time. What has remained constant is price. Considering the significant improvement in safety, comfort, power and efficiency. According to C&D, the average car price in 1955 was $2,506 (or $21,948 in today's dollars) compared to average price of $33,993 new car in 2015.

Well, that's far from constant pricing. I was noticing the price changes, as well. They have gotten significantly more expensive, even in relative terms. Certainly, the cars have improved, but it doesn't change the fact that cars make a bigger impact on our wallets than they used to.

Point well taken but at the top of my head the improvements in comfort, safety and convenience is worth much more than the price differential. I am sure others can add to that list.
• AC standard
• Automatic climate control
• Direct or multiport injection
• More horsepower from smaller engine displacement
• Front, side and rear Airbags
• Crumple zone crash protection
• Catalytic converter
• 4W Disk brakes
• Multilink suspension
• Aluminum wheels and radial tires
• Leather interior compared to vinyl
• Music system with five plus speakers
• Noise reduction technology
• Six speed automatic transmission
• Bluetooth and GPS
• Rearview camera with backup sensors
• Blind side monitoring
• Light weight steel and unit-body construction
• Soft-touch plastics on dash, door armrests,
• One-touch up and down door windows
• Rustproof underbody and side panels
• Halogen, HID and LED lighting system
• Electric power steering
• Computerized engine management system

driver100

Add all the safety equipment and engineering (crumble zones), moon roof (add to average cost), more mpg, a lot less maitenance - oil changes, many cars come with automatic transmissions standard, all have stereo, many media centres, etc.......The extra real cost is reflected in that higher real price - and is well worth the extra dollars.

bwia

@bwia said:
Just received the 60th. anniversary of Car and Driver. Wow, how cars and technology have changed in that time. What has remained constant is price. Considering the significant improvement in safety, comfort, power and efficiency. According to C&D, the average car price in 1955 was $2,506 (or $21,948 in today's dollars) compared to average price of $33,993 new car in 2015

@qbrozen said:
Well, that's far from constant pricing. I was noticing the price changes, as well. They have gotten significantly more expensive, even in relative terms. Certainly, the cars have improved, but it doesn't change the fact that cars make a bigger impact on our wallets than they used to.

Cars today do not have a bigger impact on our wallets. To the contrary. In 1955, an average new car was 60.6% of median income and today it is 54.6%.

graphicguy

Just following the line of thought of how much a car costs compared to yesteryear, you have to look at salaries, too. In 1955 the average American worker made $4,418//year. For 2015 it is estimated to be $52,214.

As for the "good old days" and as bwia points out, the average car in the '50s didn't have A/C, nor power steering, nor power brakes, nor airbags (let alone seat belts). It started rusting after about year 3 or 4. It required a lot more oil changes, tuneups, brake jobs, etc and that maintenance was a lot more frequent. Safety? You have a wreck and the likelihood of you being impaled by the steering column was a very real possibility.

graphicguy

Got a call from Cadillac Customer Service again yesterday. Not sure why. They didn't seem to know what was going on with my car as I had to repeat the entire chain of events (non-events?) for the nice lady. She didn't say she could help. She didn't even seem to really care much that I can't/won't drive the car. She just said "thanks". I don't know if anyone is supposed to get back to me. I don't know if anything is going to be done.....EVER!

Staying the course.

dino001

I think it's generally true that cars, albeit more expensive, have also more value far exceeding those from the past. Some of that increased value comes from technologies getting cheaper without help of the vehicle manufacturers (rather general industry), some are increased efficiency of the manufacturers.

The only real question is whether that increase in content and value was driven by actual demand of the customer willing to pay higher price in an offset, or was it artificially induced by outside forces, such as government. Safety features are great and many want them installed, but major leaps in that technology were almost never voluntary or resulting from direct customer demand. In fact, there is a lot of anecdotal data supporting the opposite, such as people opting for a better stereo rather than extra airbag when given a choice, over and over. Similar is with fuel economy - only major price shocks induce any kind of reflection about that and consumers also prove that they learn absolutely nothing. It's enough that price of oil abates for a few months and sales of truck are through the roof. Then of course mass hysteria when prices go up, people ditching their one-year-old SUVs for ridiculous small cars, paying premiums far offsetting any operating cost savings.

The cumulative value of all safety and fuel economy mandates is quite substantial and keeps going up. You always hear from those advocates about "it's just a little more, nobody will notice", but it ends up being not "a little". I think you could easily drop a price of modern car by 30 percent, maybe more if strip it from all the mandated features - and it would probably sell quite well. I think Honda Accord from 20 years ago would still sell today, especially if it was sold at same price (or even less). Or even take today's Accord and strip it from just the airbags, ABS, stability control, fuel economy restrictions (i.e. put older cheaper engine into the bay) and you'd have a hit beyond measure, until of course others respond in kind.

suydam

Just got done renewing my Sirius accounts. What a horrible system. For each car I had to call the day before the expiration to get a rate of just under $6 a month as opposed to the standard ripoff rate. I could probably do even better if I let them expire and waited a few weeks but this is an acceptable amount. No way could I renew both cars with one call even though the expiration dates are 2 weeks apart (?????). And I get to do it again in 6 months. It's worth it to me because I live in a rural area with zero acceptable radio. But if there were a competitor with a better system I would switch in a heartbeat. It's like the cable companies -- they can do what they want, so they do.

qbrozen

bwia said:

Cars today do not have a bigger impact on our wallets. To the contrary. In 1955, an average new car was 60.6% of median income and today it is 54.6%.

I'm curious where that data are from. not that I doubt you; economics rarely make sense to me. I just like to study these things sometimes. Trying to use wiki, for example, it looks like the 50th percentile has only increased roughly 10% from '76 to 2011.

Also, using GG's data and the C&D data, it looks to me like the average new car was less than 57% of that average American salary ($2506/$4418), while it is more than 65% today ($33,993/$52,214).

dino001

bwia said:

Cars today do not have a bigger impact on our wallets. To the contrary. In 1955, an average new car was 60.6% of median income and today it is 54.6%.

This may be true, but may not tell the whole truth. If you take into account actual income socioeconomic bracket of those who purchased those cars in 1955 vs. today, the picture is different. In other words, 61% of doctor's income in 1955 leaves the doctor with still decent life. Then car was a "luxury" item for well-off people. Today cars are a necessity for far too many people living in provincial America, regardless of their status. So spending so much percentage of income that's so much lower (in inflation-adjusted terms) will affect the rest of the life.

There are some other offsets, too. Cars were bought cash in 1955, you saved, you bought. There were loans, of course, but only few qualified. And the loans were for 2, maybe 3 years. Today I hear far too many people getting 6, or even 7 year loans just to get behind the wheel. Low interest increased current sales, but it also made prices more expensive, because far too many people buy those new cars than should. It's their choice, they chose new car rather than something else, so be it. However, when rates start rising, this may put some real brakes on new sales.

stickguy

I think the average car is way more upscale than in the old days. A Cruze LS for 19k is probably closer to the car most people bought than your average loaded 35k model.

ab348

The '78 Olds Delta 88 I bought in 1997 was probably pretty typical of cars sold here when it was new in 1978. It had V8, automatic, PS, PB, AM radio, whitewalls, wheel covers, remote mirror, vinyl roof, cruise control, and rear window defroster. Some of those were standard, some optional. It did NOT have power windows, power seat, power locks, power trunk, air conditioning, or even a clock.

Go back another 10 years to the 1960s and PS and PB might not have been so common, A/C, PW and PL were very rare (up here at least) and things like electric rear defrost were not even available.

carnaught

graphicguy said:

Got a call from Cadillac Customer Service again yesterday. Not sure why. They didn't seem to know what was going on with my car as I had to repeat the entire chain of events (non-events?) for the nice lady. She didn't say she could help. She didn't even seem to really care much that I can't/won't drive the car. She just said "thanks". I don't know if anyone is supposed to get back to me. I don't know if anything is going to be done.....EVER!

Staying the course.

Locally, I saw a new car with a large picture of a lemon, no text, displayed prominently in the window parked in close proximity to the dealership, but not on their property. Obviously the owner was experiencing lots of issues.....very tempting approach....

Mr_Shiftright

Cars were simpler back then. You need didn't a lot of those gadgets. In say, a Datsun 510 coupe you didn't need power seats or windows, or power steering or brakes, and front disk brakes were more than adequate. AC was only necessary in those parts of the country that really required it (AZ, Florida, TX, deep south, etc), leather was just a maintenance hassle (still is, actually). And we won WW II with carburetors, after all, even in our airplanes (losers had fuel injection).

Aside from safety and emissions items, I wouldn't mind driving a car from the "old days" at all.

stickguy

I think it would be fun to have a nice 1970 ish Volvo 142e (not going back to those carbs!). With the right upgrades of course.

Maybe a 1980s version would be better.

Ok, a late 70s 242gt.

Mr_Shiftright

With some of these new gadgets, it's what I call the "Banquet Greasy Meatball Syndrome"---no one wants to touch them until somebody has them. Maybe I should call it the Apple Watch Syndrome.

It goes like this: You're driving your friend around in your 2012 Lexus. It's raining and you remark "Gee, it's hard to see when to change lanes in this weather". Then you hear "Oh, my 2015 Lexus has Driver Assist--it alerts you to blind spots".

And you think: "That's good. That's a good thing. I should have that". Whereas, for the entire past years of your life, you have survived perfectly without it, and not even wishing for it.

Remember when ABS came out? Have they ever proved it saved a single life? Nope.

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Cars were simpler back then. You need didn't a lot of those gadgets. In say, a Datsun 510 coupe you didn't need power seats or windows, or power steering or brakes, and front disk brakes were more than adequate. AC was only necessary in those parts of the country that really required it (AZ, Florida, TX, deep south, etc), leather was just a maintenance hassle (still is, actually). And we won WW II with carburetors, after all, even in our airplanes (losers had fuel injection).

Aside from safety and emissions items, I wouldn't mind driving a car from the "old days" at all.

My oldest sister has a restored first MY Musatng ('65 or '64.5, depending on which history book you read). V8 (260 or 289...not sure), manual trans, I thin 4 speed (I've never got it out of 3rd), manual steering and brakes. Literally, you have to wrestle with that car to drive it. You wrestle the steering wheel to turn it. You really have to stand on the brakes to get them to get anywhere close to stopping....better leave lots of room, too.

Whoever originally speced it wanted the biggest motor they could get, and that's about it. Fun....in very small doses. Any more than that, and it's a chore, and at times, quite scary.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

Cars were simpler back then. You need didn't a lot of those gadgets. In say, a Datsun 510 coupe you didn't need power seats or windows, or power steering or brakes, and front disk brakes were more than adequate. AC was only necessary in those parts of the country that really required it (AZ, Florida, TX, deep south, etc), leather was just a maintenance hassle (still is, actually). And we won WW II with carburetors, after all, even in our airplanes (losers had fuel injection).

Aside from safety and emissions items, I wouldn't mind driving a car from the "old days" at all.

And people were more conservative in those days.

People didn't need an Impala when a Bel Air would do the same job. A 283 was more than adequate and better on gas then a 327 with a 4BBL. Crank windows worked just fine and who ever heard of a sunroof?

People financed cars for 24 or 36 months and only a very foolish person would stretch the payments to 48 months!

Not now! Most people feel they "need" leather, sunroofs V-6 engines in Accords that are more than peppy with the 4 cylinder engines. They finance for 72 or even 84 months or they get on the leasing treadmill that never ends! Yep, the beat go's on!

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

With some of these new gadgets, it's what I call the "Banquet Greasy Meatball Syndrome"---no one wants to touch them until somebody has them. Maybe I should call it the Apple Watch Syndrome.

It goes like this: You're driving your friend around in your 2012 Lexus. It's raining and you remark "Gee, it's hard to see when to change lanes in this weather". Then you hear "Oh, my 2015 Lexus has Driver Assist--it alerts you to blind spots".

And you think: "That's good. That's a good thing. I should have that". Whereas, for the entire past years of your life, you have survived perfectly without it, and not even wishing for it.

Remember when ABS came out? Have they ever proved it saved a single life? Nope.

Few people know how to properly adjust their rear view mirrors. Most adjust all 3 so they can see directly behind them. You should only use your interior mirror to see directly behind you. Adjust your left side mirror so that you only start to see side traffic when you can't see the cars in your inside mirror then do the same on the right side.
This will virtually eliminate blind spots. Takes a little getting used to and getting the settings right etc. but really works well. Give it a try.

suydam

There have been many many studies of the life saving qualities of ABS which is why they are standard now.
As to buyers preferring V6 to 4 cyl Accords my understanding is that the 4 cyl is the volume seller. Am I wrong?
You can play the "we lived without X" back to log cabin days, but very few people want to do without if they can afford better. I'm quite happy to be driving better than my first cars.

isellhondas

A lot more Accords are sold with 4 cyls than V-6's and for good reason. Unless a person is passing trucks on 2 land roads in a high altitude area there is absoultly no need for a V-6 in an Accord.

A few years ago they did a quarter mile drag race and I think the V-6 Accord was a half second faster than the 4.

I wouldn't want to forgo some of the nice things that have become common but I'm still amazed over how many "wants" have become "needs" and a person who has to go 72 or 84 months on a car loan is buying a car they can't afford.

stickguy

Or taking advantage of cheap money. Plus if you can afford the payments, you can afford the car!

roadburner

As I've said before I'd be happy to daily drive an E28 535is or E30 325is. The only electronics I really like to have are FI and ABS.

driver100

carnaught said:

graphicguy said:

Got a call from Cadillac Customer Service again yesterday. Not sure why. They didn't seem to know what was going on with my car as I had to repeat the entire chain of events (non-events?) for the nice lady. She didn't say she could help. She didn't even seem to really care much that I can't/won't drive the car. She just said "thanks". I don't know if anyone is supposed to get back to me. I don't know if anything is going to be done.....EVER!

Staying the course.

Locally, I saw a new car with a large picture of a lemon, no text, displayed prominently in the window parked in close proximity to the dealership, but not on their property. Obviously the owner was experiencing lots of issues.....very tempting approach....

What kind of car?

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

Remember when ABS came out? Have they ever proved it saved a single life? Nope.

I think it saved my life!

I started to turn right while I was braking hard.....car was on black ice and I may have skidded into a truck turning left in front of me....brakes started to pump and shake the car, but I stopped in time.


About air conditioning. Today we get in the car when it is 95F and we crank up the a/c.....remember in the old days when we had to drive everywhere, even on the highway with all the windows down. These are the good old days....right now.

stever

stickguy said:

I think the average car is way more upscale than in the old days. A Cruze LS for 19k is probably closer to the car most people bought than your average loaded 35k model.

Only driven it for a couple of miles but our houseguest's Cruze seems light years ahead of my '82 Tercel (don't even want to try to compare it to the old Beetles and the two Volvos in the family back in the 70s).

"Edmunds.com estimated that 9.5 percent of U.S. buyers who financed a new vehicle last month received a 0 percent loan. The last time the percentage of consumers with no-interest loans was that high was in September, at 10.4 percent.

In recent years, 0 percent interest rates have been a common incentive during the summer months, said Jessica Caldwell, senior analyst at Edmunds.com.

“Generally, we’ll start to see an uptick in early summer and throughout the summer,” she said.

The number of consumers who receive 0 percent loans will probably grow through July and August, Caldwell said."

0% loans mark the start of summer (Automotive News)

carnaught

driver100 said:

carnaught said:

graphicguy said:

Got a call from Cadillac Customer Service again yesterday. Not sure why. They didn't seem to know what was going on with my car as I had to repeat the entire chain of events (non-events?) for the nice lady. She didn't say she could help. She didn't even seem to really care much that I can't/won't drive the car. She just said "thanks". I don't know if anyone is supposed to get back to me. I don't know if anything is going to be done.....EVER!

Staying the course.

Locally, I saw a new car with a large picture of a lemon, no text, displayed prominently in the window parked in close proximity to the dealership, but not on their property. Obviously the owner was experiencing lots of issues.....very tempting approach....

What kind of car?

I believe a Chrysler 200.