Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

the most ironic part of the GG saga, is that the dealer practically killed himself to convince GG to buy the car in the first place, to make up for the terrible experience with his Mom's STS,

thinking at this point, they probably regret ever talking to him.

But wouldn't they have to talk to the next guy if GG hadn't bought that particular car? That lemon would have been sold to SOMEONE and the drama repeated. We just wouldn't have heard it here. I can't imagine a car with that kind of dangerous defect not causing grief to the dealer anyway.

robr2

graphicguy said:

tyguy said:

Consumer reports thoughts on used car brands (pretty generalized): newsday.com/classifieds/cars/consumer-reports-best-and-worst-car-brands-in-2015-include-lexus-mazda-and-toyota-1.10387053

Surprising comments on reliabilty for some brands.

Cadillac...."plagued by shaky reliability".

Kind of sums it up.

Robr2....I think I posted what the dealers and Cadillac corporate said on the service receipts, BBB docs and phone calls several weeks ago in some posts.

I've repeated their responses several times here.

I know what you've reported what you've been told but I have not heard the complete story from the dealer and GM. I'm not doubting what you are saying is what is being reported to you but they may not be telling you everything that is going on.

Fair enough?

driver100

This is into day 3 for GG. I have never heard of any new car being in the garage for 3 days to try to track down a problem. It defies all logic. And, I don't think it is 80% the dealers fault....GM corp has to have a way to fix their cars, or they should send out a technician to see what is wrong.

My guess is all the other problems make it so they can't fix this problem, and they can't give the car back in undriveable condition.

I wonder if GM Corp is watching this unfold, as they prepare to go to court.(they may even have told the dealer that car better work perfectly before you give it back). They'd probably love to blame the dealer for the cars problems. IMHO, GM Corp has to take responsibility...they train the technicians and they should be a resource centre if there is a problem.

BTW...nothing against Cadillac or GM, I would be saying this if anyone had these problems.

Appreciated the article about car reliability - a few surprises, like Ford being that low, and some things where you have to read between the lines - give MB a bad rating because of one model-CLA, but, I learned something..

abacomike

bwia said:

the most ironic part of the GG saga, is that the dealer practically killed himself to convince GG to buy the car in the first place, to make up for the terrible experience with his Mom's STS, thinking at this point, they probably regret ever talking to him.

Think of the odds, three(?) CTS's all with problems? At some point the dealer and GM had to cut their losses. Meanwhile, GG has hardened his position and anything short of getting his money back is unacceptable to him. No matter the final outcome there are no winners under these circumstances. Guys if you the arbitrator in this case how would you rule?

It's impossible to make a judgement in this case without hearing both sides.  I would love to have Cadillac reps in front of me so I could ask specific questions - i.e.:

What could be causing a car to frequently stall?  What could cause power steering to malfunction? What could cause clanking and noises coming from a vehicle's front end?  Has Cadillac Division received similar complaints from other CTS owners?  Has the dealership exercised all its options in trying to correct this problem?

There are many more questions that need to be asked and answered.  If Cadillac withholds data or info during arbitration and it is later found that Cadillac lied or concealed info, a huge lawsuit with serious monetary penalties could easily result.

graphicguy

Mike....both Cadillac and the two dealers I've been using seem to employ dancing around issues rather than getting to the root cause. Lawyer is sending a 2nd letther to Cadillac for a buyback given this latest bout of "let's find even more ways to irritate our customers".

The way they don't report issues is to blatantly lie, stating they're either not reproduceable, or everything is working fine. I had one trchnician actually tell me that the power steering failures were normal.

isellhondas

They may have a problem with finding a capable person to track down the problem. A lot of good techs have
left the business and the trade is having a tough time attracting talented new people to take their places.

I know I sure wouldn't reccomend becoming a car mechanic/tech to someone looking for a lifetime trade.

It used to be most dealers had a couple of crackerjack techs that could quickly diagnose and fix any problem.

When those guys retire or leave the business, there aren't people who can jump in and take their place.

graphicguy

Craig....agreed. Cadillac seems content to just make due with a person who can plug into a computer and read a code, change oil, rotate tires. Much more than that, and they really don't want to mess with the problems.

dino001

isellhondas said:

They may have a problem with finding a capable person to track down the problem. A lot of good techs have
left the business and the trade is having a tough time attracting talented new people to take their places.

I know I sure wouldn't reccomend becoming a car mechanic/tech to someone looking for a lifetime trade.

It used to be most dealers had a couple of crackerjack techs that could quickly diagnose and fix any problem.

When those guys retire or leave the business, there aren't people who can jump in and take their place.

Why is that? I thought car mechanic would be a perfect non-college outsourcing-proof job to have, so rational people should want to be one. Just like plumber, or electrician. The prices for those services are going up. I remember alignments costing 30-40 bucks not so long ago, you get lucky to get one for $80 today, many brands (like mine) commanding $150-$200, as many tire stores simply don't have electronic equipment to do those.

Is that because of the consolidation in the business and those big corporations deciding they want to pocket the difference on simply not share it with the employees? That is quite possible, but I still think those consolidations only work if you keep your employees happy enough to stay, if they leave, they become an instant competition. What gives?

Or perhaps it is one of those that they came to believe computer can diagnose everything, so all you need is near-illiterate minimum wage yahoo to read the code, fill an order on a computer (preferably with pictographs instead letters) and hold a wrench to unscrew couple of bolts for a component removal? That is straight from "Idiocracy", but I guess it's possible.

thebean

isellhondas said:

They may have a problem with finding a capable person to track down the problem. A lot of good techs have left the business and the trade is having a tough time attracting talented new people to take their places. I know I sure wouldn't reccomend becoming a car mechanic/tech to someone looking for a lifetime trade. It used to be most dealers had a couple of crackerjack techs that could quickly diagnose and fix any problem. When those guys retire or leave the business, there aren't people who can jump in and take their place.

This tells me it is vital to choose a car with a great quality rep rather than one that may be more fun to drive.  I hate having to deal with car problems.  Other folks may be OK with dealing with these hassles in order to drive a cool car, but not me.

stever

Being a tech isn't where the money is.

bwia

Wow, that's a broad generalization to make about dealership mechanics are not capable techs. To the contrary.

As I'm sure most would agree, there is a high level of specializing in the auto service and repair business so one would not expect a grease monkey to diagnose complex engine problems in their expensive machines. Most, if not all dealerships use SAE qualified mechanics and technicians. It is not only a badge of honor but a testament to auto repair and service excellence. Their service department walls are usually plastered with up-to-date certifications of their highly skilled techs.

Don't know about others but my Buick, Chevy, Nissan, Toyota and Volvo dealerships proudly display their commitment to continuing education and training of their staff. As to compensation, entry level positions pay less of course, but pay rises with experience and areas of specialization.

dino001

I think they may be very good in marketing the image of a car technician excellence, but when you have a two premium brand dealerships displaying level of ineptitude and indifference, such as in Graphic's case, it's at least fair to ask if the marketing spin actually matches the reality.

Also, approach with full module block replacement in lieu of a focused part repair is mostly result of a design of today's machines, when parts are so intertwined that it's difficult, if not futile to try to isolate the culprit. That can favor long term deterioration in mechanical skills in favor of managing the computer interface between the diagnostician and the vehicle. This can be observed in many other skill specialties, from surgeon, to pilot, to any kind of machine technician, when computers/robots "take over", leaving human to perform interface functions. This often leads to very myopic view that you don't need to know what's really happening inside, thus people with true mechanical skills become replaced "operators". When new fly-by-wire showed up, airlines believed that all they need is a pilot trained in interfacing with the computer. This had several catastrophic results in multiple catastrophic stalls in planes that were considered "stall-protected" (i.e. stall should not have occurred in regular flying conditions by virtue of computer correcting pilot's mistakes). Pilots relied on those computers to correct the flight parameters and prevent stalls, which worked in vast majority of situations, but completely failed outside of those condition envelopes - computers could no longer adjust, but the pilots had no idea what was happening.

fezo

Meanwhile, I take the 5 in for the oil change to my local mechanic who tells me my right rear shock is leaking with resultant scalloping of the tire. He'd have fixed it but it's still under the bumper to bumper warranty so Mazda gets it Monday. I' not happy about that on a car with 25K on it but as long as the dealer is straight with it and fixes the problem I'll be fine.

He was surprised I didn't notice. Says to him it feels like I've got a snow tire on that wheel.

abacomike

The vertical blind installer just left. The verticals in both bedrooms are a shade darker than the carpeting (beige) as are the verticals in the living room that span the sliding glass doors. The verticals in the kitchen are off white which blend in nicely with the white appliances. They did a great job and all for $700.00. The apartment is like living in heaven compared to two weeks ago before the carpeting and blinds were replaced.

I'd be foolish to move, to be quite honest. Where am I going to live for under $1000.00 a month including maintenance to the association, insurance on the apartment, phone, electric, taxes cable TV and internet? No matter where I went, it would be closer to $2000 since I would have to carry a mortgage and still pay maintenance fees to an association (I would buy a townhouse, not a home). This condo is fully paid for.

I called a painter who was referred by someone in my building to give me an estimate on a paint job with spackling in certain areas. Once that is done, I am finished improving the apartment for now. It is fine just the way it is (including a paint job) and meets my needs.

fezo

Great. Save me a place in January when I'm finally allowed back in the water! I'm not into polar bear plunges which it would be here.

driver100

fezo said:

Great. Save me a place in January when I'm finally allowed back in the water! I'm not into polar bear plunges which it would be here.

I think oldfarmer is looking for a place to crash too!

You guys could have quite a get together.

oldfarmer50

Ultimate driving machine? I'm not sure.

Today I was driving the Lincoln and had just entered my favorite interstate ramp. It's about a quarter mile straight-away two lanes, one breaks left one breaks right. I was barely accelerating doing about 45 (I usually do 60...70 in my sporty cars) approaching the right bend in the right lane.

Suddenly, I hear a noise like a buzzy washing machine to my left. It's a BMW 530i winding out like nobody's business. But he's only slowly overtaking me. As we get to the split he cuts to the right in front of me without signaling. He just made the turn before running out of road.

Ignoring his driving skills (or lack thereof) why was he having so much trouble getting past me? I wasn't racing him. If I was running 2000rpm I'd be surprised. It looked like an older BMW (E-34?) but I thought these things had some guts.

Or is 1/4 throttle in a 20 yo Lincoln too much for the ultimate driving machine?

[Deleted User]

Speaking of which, we just booked a family vacation to Florida next spring. Universal Orlando, then a Bahamas cruise out of Miami, and then a few days in Fort Myers. Playing in the warm waters will be my motivation to work hard during rehab following the knee replacement in a few weeks.

abacomike

tyguy said:

Speaking of which, we just booked a family vacation to Florida next spring. Universal Orlando, then a Bahamas cruise out of Miami, and then a few days in Fort Myers. Playing in the warm waters will be my motivation to work hard during rehab following the knee replacement in a few weeks.

You might want to change your reservations to Disney World where they have transportation between all their venues.  Universal Studios has two venues - all of which require "walking".  There is no transportation at all.  Even though we stayed at the Universal resort which provided boats to the main entrance, after two hours of standing on lines and walking what seemed like miles, I was waving the white flag.

With your knee replacement, which I also had done, it will be very, very rough for you.  It took me 6 months after surgery to finally be able to walk correctly after months of rehab and physical therapy.  I think you might want to reconsider Universal and consider Disney.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

fezo said:

Great. Save me a place in January when I'm finally allowed back in the water! I'm not into polar bear plunges which it would be here.

I think oldfarmer is looking for a place to crash too!

You guys could have quite a get together.

I'm still looking for a spot on your couch.

abacomike

I've got a master bedroom that is vacant and unused.  My son and his significant other are flying here from CA on September 3rd and will be here through September 7th.  After that, I've got space the rest of the year and through the winter.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

fezo said:

Great. Save me a place in January when I'm finally allowed back in the water! I'm not into polar bear plunges which it would be here.

I think oldfarmer is looking for a place to crash too!

You guys could have quite a get together.

I'm still looking for a spot on your couch.

Awwww....I was thinking you would like to hook up with Mike and the Fez.

driver100

abacomike said:

I've got a master bedroom that is vacant and unused.  My son and his significant other are flying here from CA on September 3rd and will be here through September 7th.  After that, I've got space the rest of the year and through the winter.

See oldfarmer......anytime after September 7!

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

Yep....must be the service guys "go to" excuse. Bad gas....hard to argue. What is "bad gas" to begin with? What makes it "bad". Low octane? Wrong solvents?

A few decades ago my mom bought a new Chevy and after a few months it basically gave up the ghost as she was going to work. She had it towed to the dealer and guess what they determined the issue was? Bad gas, turns out that the gas station she stopped at earlier had developed a crack in their tank and the gas got contaminated with water and dirt. The gas station owed up to it and told my mother to have the car towed to the and they would fix the engine.

My mother replied that the dealership will fix it and the gas station will pay the bill.

snakeweasel

bwia said:

I'm sitting here at the barbershop watching a repo guy in action. In a blink of an eye he was gone with a nearly new VW Golf on his truck.

I'm wondering what would I do in this situation but then again I do not have any outstanding notes.  

Unless you have a shady loan company or bought from a BHPH lot or you're an idiot you should see the repo coming. Banks really don't want the car and will spend a considerable amount of time discussing your payments with you prior to taking the car. So you will get a bunch of calls and/or letters asking for payments before they come for your car.

snakeweasel

Finally honesty in auto sales.

http://www.cracked.com/video_19548_if-car-commercials-were-honest.html

abacomike

snakeweasel said:

I'm sitting here at the barbershop watching a repo guy in action. In a blink of an eye he was gone with a nearly new VW Golf on his truck.

I'm wondering what would I do in this situation but then again I do not have any outstanding notes.  

Unless you have a shady loan company or bought from a BHPH lot or you're an idiot you should see the repo coming. Banks really don't want the car and will spend a considerable amount of time discussing your payments with you prior to taking the car. So you will get a bunch of calls and/or letters asking for payments before they come for your car.

I told this story a year or so ago.  I was managing a dealership and was actively engaged in trying to close a deal for a salesman.  I had not yet pulled a credit bureau on the customer because I wasn't close to making the deal yet.

Thr customer gave me the keys to his trade and was about to walk outside to eyeball the car when a tow truck backs up to the customer's car, extends it "fork-lift" underneath the vehicle and was in and out of the parking lot in under a minute.

I was somewhat stymied by the speed with which the car was repossessed but found out later that the car was equipped with LoJack so they had no difficulty locating the car.  I walked over to the customer and handed his keys back to him and told him he was now in possession of a set of keys to a non-existent car - at least a car that has disappeared.  The customer's face turned red after I related, in detail, how quickly his car had been repossessed.

End of deal and end of story.

fezo

If old farmer gets there the same time i do I call dibs on the guest room. I'm sure the couch is comfy, farmer.

Depending on weather and how little stuff I can live on might have to bring the Miata. It's the opposite of your Mercedes. Good flexibility exercise getting in the seat. Not terribly quiet but heap big fun.

I'll leave the kids at home.

abacomike

fezo said:

If old farmer gets there the same time i do I call dibs on the guest room. I'm sure the couch is comfy, farmer. Depending on weather and how little stuff I can live on might have to bring the Miata. It's the opposite of your Mercedes. Good flexibility exercise getting in the seat. Not terribly quiet but heap big fun. I'll leave the kids at home.

When you guys are freezing this winter, you will rue the day you did not reserve the master bedroom suite at abacomike's B&B.  

fezo

Mine. Mine.

stickguy

If you like the area Mike, might as well stay there. But if you really want to move north in the state, could still be worth the money.

if you do, why not just rent? could end up being cheaper than buying something new, and you aren't locked into anything.

abacomike

stickguy said:

If you like the area Mike, might as well stay there. But if you really want to move north in the state, could still be worth the money. if you do, why not just rent? could end up being cheaper than buying something new, and you aren't locked into anything.

I have a painter coming tomorrow morning to give me an estimate in a total repaint.  My guess it will be close to $1500.  This apartment needs a paint job desperately.  But once the house is painted, that will be it.  The condo has literally been transformed with the new carpeting, window treatment and a fresh coat of paint will "seal the deal" do to speak.

The realtor in my building said I could easily get $115,000 for the apartment now after his initial estimate of $80,000 before all the upgrades.

I still need to now reassess what I want to do.  I still say that I couldn't live anywhere near here for $1000 a month including everything.

stickguy

look at your condo like a car. Make sure it is what you want, and it fits your needs and makes you happy. And don't buy just on price!

stever

The heck with the guest room, I'll take dibs on the back seat of Mike's Mercedes. We've actually gone a month and a half without company here - a record since we moved in.

My sister in law is rehabbing her knee right now and coming along okay. A friend in the UP had his done about six weeks ago and was doing fine until he helped a friend pull some old tires off the Lake Superior beach. The tires didn't bother him but walking the sand did. He was set back a couple of weeks and is back on the heavy pain meds.

Michaell

stever said:

The heck with the guest room, I'll take dibs on the back seat of Mike's Mercedes. We've actually gone a month and a half without company here - a record since we moved in.

My sister in law is rehabbing her knee right now and coming along okay. A friend in the UP had his done about six weeks ago and was doing fine until he helped a friend pull some old tires off the Lake Superior beach. The tires didn't bother him but walking the sand did. He was set back a couple of weeks and is back on the heavy pain meds.

My wife will require knee surgery later this year .. torn meniscus, according to the docs.

Gotta get into the new house first, since it's a one story.

stever

The ACL (minor meniscus repair at the same time) followed by a tib/fib fracture is why we aren't shopping manuals. My wife drove one for years - we actually tested a manual Scion last year and she didn't stall it. Unlike me. But although it's been years now, she still doesn't quite trust her leg.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

Finally honesty in auto sales.

http://www.cracked.com/video_19548_if-car-commercials-were-honest.html

Hey! Why is he standing in front of a Mustang saying those things? :@

As to a muscle car fixing my...ahem...equipment...I'll have you know that one younger woman at work has already invited me to take her out partying as long as I bring the new car.


(She's probably hoping I'll fall asleep early and she can have her way with my car)

[Deleted User]

Mike, I handed the Orlando part of our vacation over to our daughter to plan so she felt involved. At 11 years old it's a big deal to her and she chose Universal over Disney. Fortunately we found a hotel within a mile of the park and with a shuttle to the entrance, so at least that piece will be easy. With six months of therapy I should be in the 90 percent category by then, but I do recognize I'll have to take it easy while I'm there. I'm okay hanging out on park benches

abacomike

tyguy said:

Mike, I handed the Orlando part of our vacation over to our daughter to plan so she felt involved. At 11 years old it's a big deal to her and she chose Universal over Disney. Fortunately we found a hotel within a mile of the park and with a shuttle to the entrance, so at least that piece will be easy. With six months of therapy I should be in the 90 percent category by then, but I do recognize I'll have to take it easy while I'm there. I'm okay hanging out on park benches

Hanging out on park benches is a good "trait" for new knees!  I am just relating to you the fact that it's not just the standing in lines (like Harry Potter or Transformers, etc.) but the walking is the killer.  I must have walked miles each and every day.

Make sure you pay the extra bucks for the "no waiting" or priority tickets.  You are put ahead of regular admission guests.  Definitely worth the money.

driver100

abacomike said:

fezo said:

If old farmer gets there the same time i do I call dibs on the guest room. I'm sure the couch is comfy, farmer.

Depending on weather and how little stuff I can live on might have to bring the Miata. It's the opposite of your Mercedes. Good flexibility exercise getting in the seat. Not terribly quiet but heap big fun.

I'll leave the kids at home.

When you guys are freezing this winter, you will rue the day you did not reserve the master bedroom suite at abacomike's B&B.  

Does the B&B room come with a limo (E400) and driver?

driver100

stickguy said:

look at your condo like a car. Make sure it is what you want, and it fits your needs and makes you happy. And don't buy just on price!

Look at it like a car. You mean he is going to trade it in every 6 months?

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

Ultimate driving machine? I'm not sure.

Today I was driving the Lincoln and had just entered my favorite interstate ramp. It's about a quarter mile straight-away two lanes, one breaks left one breaks right. I was barely accelerating doing about 45 (I usually do 60...70 in my sporty cars) approaching the right bend in the right lane.

Suddenly, I hear a noise like a buzzy washing machine to my left. It's a BMW 530i winding out like nobody's business. But he's only slowly overtaking me. As we get to the split he cuts to the right in front of me without signaling. He just made the turn before running out of road.

Ignoring his driving skills (or lack thereof) why was he having so much trouble getting past me? I wasn't racing him. If I was running 2000rpm I'd be surprised. It looked like an older BMW (E-34?) but I thought these things had some guts.

Or is 1/4 throttle in a 20 yo Lincoln too much for the ultimate driving machine?

Well, my guess is if it sounded like a buzzy washing machine, something was terribly wrong with it.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

Finally honesty in auto sales.

http://www.cracked.com/video_19548_if-car-commercials-were-honest.html

Hey! Why is he standing in front of a Mustang saying those things? :@

As to a muscle car fixing my...ahem...equipment...I'll have you know that one younger woman at work has already invited me to take her out partying as long as I bring the new car.


(She's probably hoping I'll fall asleep early and she can have her way with my car)

You mean she is mainly interested in the car and not you.........it can't be.

Looks like you have learned one of life's valuable lessons.

abacomike

driver100 said:

fezo said:

If old farmer gets there the same time i do I call dibs on the guest room. I'm sure the couch is comfy, farmer. Depending on weather and how little stuff I can live on might have to bring the Miata. It's the opposite of your Mercedes. Good flexibility exercise getting in the seat. Not terribly quiet but heap big fun. I'll leave the kids at home.

When you guys are freezing this winter, you will rue the day you did not reserve the master bedroom suite at abacomike's B&B.  

Does the B&B room come with a limo (E400) and driver?

Definitely!

fezo

Hmmmm... January will be NFL playoffs. I assume a nice TV and a properly antagonistic attitude towards certain teams...

abacomike

driver100 said:

look at your condo like a car. Make sure it is what you want, and it fits your needs and makes you happy. And don't buy just on price!

Look at it like a car. You mean he is going to trade it in every 6 months?

You guys are pulling my good leg, right?

Painter gave me a price of $1500 including paint, repairs and labor.  That is for the whole apartment:

Master Bedroom+3 closets+Bathroom
My Bedroom+1 closet
Living Room 
Dining Room
Guest Bathroom + bathtub area 
Kitchen
Dining Area in Kitchen + pantry

It sounded like a fair price.  It takes him 2-1/2 days to complete the job.  He and his helper move all furniture as necessary.  Place hasn't been painted in 10 years.

So, for an investment of $5400, I have a beautiful apartment that increased in value by $20,000+ in just a few weeks.

In the next year, I have to decide whether I want to put in new vanities, toilets and sinks and mirrors as well as new kitchen countertops and cabinets.  I am hesitant to invest any more money into this place because it is quite livable after all the improvements.  The plumbing is sound and there are no cabinet doors in the kitchen hanging on their hinges.

driver100

I wonder what is happening with GG's car?
It is now day 4.....and the4y haven't been able to find out what the problem is....in a brand new car!
I wonder if they have found any "codes"?
How can you explain not being able to fix a brand new car with only a few 1000 miles on it?

[Deleted User]

Nicely done with the condo, Mike. Sounds like you'll be happy living there and that's what matters the most.

Thanks for the info on the Universal situation. I'll pass some hints over to my daughter for her to integrate your suggestions in her plan.

graphicguy

driver100 said:

I wonder what is happening with GG's car?
It is now day 4.....and the4y haven't been able to find out what the problem is....in a brand new car!
I wonder if they have found any "codes"?
How can you explain not being able to fix a brand new car with only a few 1000 miles on it?

Day 7 (including today and the weekend of the Cadillac CTS being out of commission. No word on what's wrong.....no word on a fix....no word when they expect it to be done.

Bad gas.....I mentioned I only used Premium Tier 1 gas.....normally from Costco, sometimes (and only rarely), I use BP or Shell premium....both tier 1. Both guaranteed. Personally, I think spending time exploring the possibility of bad gas is a waste of time.

qbrozen

T&C is back at the dealership again today. They changed their story a bit and told me it is a bad ballast, not "headlight computer."

I got an email about 2:30am that someone from FL purchased my Fit off Ebay. Hmmmm...