The HVAC companies do charge that much for a capacitor . I paid one about 3 years ago. The last two that went out on two different units were fixed by the Electrician for our Lions Club Bluegrass Fair. The large local HVAC supply houses will not sell to civilians but he told me of a place in Danville,Ky that sells to the public. Took a 30 minute road trip there and bought 2 for $20 each retail. HVAC company charged $120 for the part plus the trip. The guy I knew asked for $25 so I gave him $50, win win.
A proper topic for this place, our 5 year old Trane XR AC unit (paired with the original Bryant Furnace and Air Handler from when the house was built 11 years ago) isn't kicking on. Last night it started with blown fuse on the Air Handler unit, which I replaced this morning - I'm thinking it's probably the capacitor but this is far my from area of expertise, so a tech is coming out tomorrow. Of course the unit is outside the labor warranty...
———————————————— I’ve never seen a residential air handler (blower unit) that uses capacitors. Do you mean the outdoor compressor unit? They always have a capacitor for the compressor and most times for the compressor cooling fan.
And you mentioned fuses, they work well but I haven’t seen those used for years. Everything I’ve been seeing is breakers.
Close to 300 bucks for a service call is outrageous. Around here it’s half of that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Probably more detail than anyone wants:
So, the capacitor I was referring to is on the outside compressor, yes. The Bryant furnace and air handler are original the house (11 years ago). We added AC 5 years ago after moving in (Trane XR16 slim profile due to lot lines). The furnace and air handler is on one breaker and the AC compressor is on another. So that part is fine.
However the Air Handler circuit board has a 3 amp automotive fuse on the board that I imagine is for voltage regulation? I dunno. That fuse blew today and basically has disabled the entire system - thermostat, blower, AC, furnace etc.
When I replaced the fuse, the blower and furnace are fine. But as soon as I try to start the AC the fuse will blow after a few minutes. That’s what leads me to thinking the capacitor is borked.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
I lost two capacitors on my prior AC unit. Basically it ceased to kick on the compressor. First time around in 2016ish, it cost 3-something out the door,having one of the HVAC repair outfits come out.
Second go-round in 2019, probably should have been a similar deal, BUT… I went down the rabbit hole of clearing some of the brush growth near my AC unit. I broke out my electric hedge trimmers to cut some stuff back, and I hit the high pressure line and caused a vivid venting of refrigerant to free air. So a $300 capacitor replacement turned into almost $6k for a new unit.
A couple of automotive related stories from my wife, today.
The cooking studio is in a strip mall in a nice part of the Denver suburbs. She sits at the front desk, and has a good view into the parking lot, and the parking stalls right in front.
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A few of us go to Tim Hortons for a coffee after tennis. The last two times we were there we were watching out the front window. When you turn in there is a curb that juts out....one day a Tesla drove right over it, the next time we saw a Caddie SUV drive over it.......both happened to be senior citizens. It's kind of funny because the rear ends go up pretty high and then come crashing down, as the drivers continue on trying to make it look like nothing happened. We mentioned it to the owner and he said it happens a lot more often in the winter.......when the snow can cover the curb.
A couple of automotive related stories from my wife, today.
The cooking studio is in a strip mall in a nice part of the Denver suburbs. She sits at the front desk, and has a good view into the parking lot, and the parking stalls right in front.
She noticed a Cadillac SUV (I'll assume Escalade) with an honest-to-god Club stretched across the steering wheel. When was the last time you saw one of those in use? Turns out the owner was an elderly lady.
Second, a red Audi convertible was parked with the top down, and it started to rain. Hard. I don't think she was able to spot the owner.
Clubs are still a thing in Spokane, which has PNW property crime and sometimes feels stuck in the 90s with some of the vehicles on the road.
So, the capacitor I was referring to is on the outside compressor, yes. The Bryant furnace and air handler are original the house (11 years ago). We added AC 5 years ago after moving in (Trane XR16 slim profile due to lot lines). The furnace and air handler is on one breaker and the AC compressor is on another. So that part is fine.
However the Air Handler circuit board has a 3 amp automotive fuse on the board that I imagine is for voltage regulation? I dunno. That fuse blew today and basically has disabled the entire system - thermostat, blower, AC, furnace etc.
When I replaced the fuse, the blower and furnace are fine. But as soon as I try to start the AC the fuse will blow after a few minutes. That’s what leads me to thinking the capacitor is borked.
———————————————— Obviously I don’t see the schematic of your circuit board but that board is for controlling you furnace and blower. You proved that by replacing the fuse which allowed your furnace and blower to work normally. However, that board operates a relay that provides low voltage power to the compressor contactor located in the outside compressor unit. This relay also selects a higher blower speed for AC. If somehow the relay itself is bad that would also blow the 3 amp fuse. Thereby not allowing the compressor to kick in.
Most of the time when a compressor capacitor is bad the compressor won’t operate and depending how the capacitor fails, the 220 volt AC circuit breaker will trip but you didn’t say that happened.
Let us know the outcome.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
It seems to me a lot of motorcycle accidents happen when cars make a left turn in front of them, it is hard to drive a motorcycle defensively in those cases no matter how good of a helmet you got!
Did you read my post? You have to assume the worst in that situation- that's why you roll off the throttle and cover the brake whenever there's an oncoming car and an intersection on your right.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'm sans M240 vert for a few days; rear wheel bearings need to be replaced (warranty, woo hoo!). They said fronts are good. Have a loaner '23 BMW 530xi in a cool gray over cognac (sensatec, love the cognac!). It's a big, generically handsome highway cruiser, with the (imho) terrible current IP. Only drove it home from the dealer, expected a 320 loaner. But, in my brief time with it, prefer my A7.
The M5 excepted, the current 5 Series range is just a boring assemblage of tepid and soft cruisers.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
saw Denver on the weather app updates. Hopefully none of the Colorado crew was impacted by the storms (hail?)
It was an exciting afternoon around here. We've been having a fair amount of severe weather the last few weeks, with a couple of major hailstorms.
Today the wife texted me she got a tornado warning, which is rare for developed areas here. About 10 minutes later I got the same warning on my phone - the house is about 10 miles east of the cooking studio.
Got dark, started to rain, started to hail again. Learned later that a tornado did touch down just south of the studio and was on the ground for about 6 miles, heading west to east. Tore up some trees and fences, but nothing worse than that.
The cooking studio is across the street from the Olive Garden, just north of the highway - the red line is the path of the tornado.
"driver100">It seems to me a lot of motorcycle accidents happen when cars make a left turn in front of them, it is hard to drive a motorcycle defensively in those cases no matter how good of a helmet you got!
@ roadburner Did you read my post? You have to assume the worst in that situation- that's why you roll off the throttle and cover the brake whenever there's an oncoming car and an intersection on your right.
Yup, well I skimmed it, I am pretty busy these days. But I bet all the motorcyclists who got hit by drivers making a left turn thought they would stop in time. And how many slow down and get hit from behind, which happens a lot.
Not saying it is the motorcyclists fault. There are a lot of car drivers who don't see or judge motorcyclists. They make a left turn and don't seem to even see a motorcycle coming, often when it is too late for the motorcyclist to stop or take evasive action. One lady passenger was killed recently when the motorcycle driver slowed down to make a right turn....he may have eased into the turn better, but still, hard to drive defensively when you get slammed from the rear....and a lot of car drivers are on their phones or are texting.
Defensive driving is an excellent way to avoid an accident, but it isn't completely "foolproof"......like getting hit from the rear when you stop for an amber light, and you get slammed by a giant garbage truck.
In 2021, when they opened up the case on my son's unit, it seems a not all that small snake had sacrificed his life, in order for me to loan my son $9000 for a new HVAC unit. Two capacitors blown.. Estimated total bill of $900 to "maybe fix" an old unit.
"driver100">It seems to me a lot of motorcycle accidents happen when cars make a left turn in front of them, it is hard to drive a motorcycle defensively in those cases no matter how good of a helmet you got!
@ roadburner Did you read my post? You have to assume the worst in that situation- that's why you roll off the throttle and cover the brake whenever there's an oncoming car and an intersection on your right.
Yup, well I skimmed it, I am pretty busy these days. But I bet all the motorcyclists who got hit by drivers making a left turn thought they would stop in time. And how many slow down and get hit from behind, which happens a lot.
Not saying it is the motorcyclists fault. There are a lot of car drivers who don't see or judge motorcyclists. They make a left turn and don't seem to even see a motorcycle coming, often when it is too late for the motorcyclist to stop or take evasive action. One lady passenger was killed recently when the motorcycle driver slowed down to make a right turn....he may have eased into the turn better, but still, hard to drive defensively when you get slammed from the rear....and a lot of car drivers are on their phones or are texting.
Defensive driving is an excellent way to avoid an accident, but it isn't completely "foolproof"......like getting hit from the rear when you stop for an amber light, and you get slammed by a giant garbage truck.
Which is why you should always check your six when slowing down for a stoplight or stopped traffic- no matter what you are driving/riding. A few years ago my son came up on some stopped traffic on the interstate and saw that the car behind him was closing very quickly. He pulled into the emergency lane while the car behind him slammed on its brakes and barely missed running into the truck that had been in front of my son's car. We teach that at Street Survival and the MSF teaches it in the Basic RiderCourse.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I put a new compressor (I think) in the unit at the old house right before we moved. Only about 5 years old. Went way early, and very annoying that 2 months later not my problem (was already under contract then).
Took some haggling but Lennox warranties part of it but still ended up being $1700 IIRC. Debated a new unit for $5k but seemed unnecessary. Maybe if I was staying there another 20 years. Worked fine once fixed. Furnace was certainly ok.
Similar situation to my heater at the shore. The heat exchanger went which usually means time for a new unit. Well there was a campaign on those units with a very long warranty. Carrier covered all the parts and 50% of the labor. Fixed it for $700 rather than a whole new unit.
Anything under $1k is an instant yes for repair because still under parts warranty. Anything more and we talk seriously since the furnace is 11 years old and an only OK one.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
"driver100">It seems to me a lot of motorcycle accidents happen when cars make a left turn in front of them, it is hard to drive a motorcycle defensively in those cases no matter how good of a helmet you got!
@ roadburner Did you read my post? You have to assume the worst in that situation- that's why you roll off the throttle and cover the brake whenever there's an oncoming car and an intersection on your right.
Yup, well I skimmed it, I am pretty busy these days. But I bet all the motorcyclists who got hit by drivers making a left turn thought they would stop in time. And how many slow down and get hit from behind, which happens a lot.
Not saying it is the motorcyclists fault. There are a lot of car drivers who don't see or judge motorcyclists. They make a left turn and don't seem to even see a motorcycle coming, often when it is too late for the motorcyclist to stop or take evasive action. One lady passenger was killed recently when the motorcycle driver slowed down to make a right turn....he may have eased into the turn better, but still, hard to drive defensively when you get slammed from the rear....and a lot of car drivers are on their phones or are texting.
Defensive driving is an excellent way to avoid an accident, but it isn't completely "foolproof"......like getting hit from the rear when you stop for an amber light, and you get slammed by a giant garbage truck.
Which is why you should always check your six when slowing down for a stoplight or stopped traffic- no matter what you are driving/riding. A few years ago my son came up on some stopped traffic on the interstate and saw that the car behind him was closing very quickly. He pulled into the emergency lane while the car behind him slammed on its brakes and barely missed running into the truck that had been in front of my son's car. We teach that at Street Survival and the MSF teaches it in the Basic RiderCourse.
Fortunately, your son drives defensively and avoided an accident. If I were to guess I would say less than half of drivers drive defensively. I was surprised that this week I found a car on my back bumper on the 3 days I was on the highway....traveling 65 mph. I was keeping up with traffic, but on all 3 days I found a car following too close......so it means I have to leave a larger gap in case I have to suddenly slow down or stop.
Defensive driving is great, but there can be a situation when someone does something that you can't possibly have anticipated.
Since people may be interested. i have been driving for 60 years. I have driven taxi cabs, a salesman (driving 25k miles a year), taught high school driving in the car and classroom. I have had two fairly serious accidents, one was the dump truck that ploughed into me, and the other was a car that went through a stop sign. And I have had 2 other small fender benders where the other guy pulled out from the curb and hit me. There is no way I could have anticipated those accidents....they really came from out of nowhere.
For those keeping score the contactor went bad on the compressor - should have 16 ohms and has all of 1. $400 + tax for the visit. I’m sure the part is $50 but whatever.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
For those keeping score the contactor went bad on the compressor - should have 16 ohms and has all of 1. $400 + tax for the visit. I’m sure the part is $50 but whatever.
For those keeping score the contactor went bad on the compressor - should have 16 ohms and has all of 1. $400 + tax for the visit. I’m sure the part is $50 but whatever.
———————————————— If I’m reading your post correctly, the coil on the contactor is reading 1 ohm but it should be reading 16 ohms. If that’s the case the coil would be drawing around 16 times the normal current. That’s plenty enough to blow the 3 amp fuse but I’m surprised it didn’t happen instantly (I think you said it took a couple minutes). In any case the guy found the culprit and you’re up and running again.
FWIW, I did a quick check for the price of an AC contactor and it was less than 20 bucks.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Picked up a new iPad 10th gen today. My old one was 5 years old and the battery was starting to run out after a few hours use, plus it was getting a bit slow. The new one is nice although naturally they had to change things around. No physical button on it to close a running app and the new way is another non-intuitive screen gesture. Plus they did away with the Lightning connector in favor of USB C, so another new charger and cable. I don’t like that but I’ll get used to it. Everything else is bigger and better.
Yep. I know. He did give me fair warning what I already know - our hot water tank is 11 years old and probably nearing end of life. Hoping to squeak another couple years out of it.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
@28firefighter said:
Yep. I know. He did give me fair warning what I already know - our hot water tank is 11 years old and probably nearing end of life. Hoping to squeak another couple years out of it.
Tankless can be good until you lose power for a few days. Also, the tankless unit needs to be close to your shower because the warm water still needs to get there.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
We replaced the tankless unit at my mom's house (20 years old) with a newer model last year. Tenants seem to be OK with it, even though there is probably 60 to 75' between the unit and the bathrooms.
I've been working on cleaning up the Mustang. After using some heavy duty wheel cleaner and a strip wash product, it looks better but still dirty. Decided to looking into getting it detailed because there is some oil on the paint that is hard to remove. Looked at a couple of sites and saw Clay Bar, and remembered I have some clay bar and some clay bar cloths. Looks like a weekend project that could save me some money although extra labor.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
@explorerx4 said:
Tankless can be good until you lose power for a few days.
Also, the tankless unit needs to be close to your shower because the warm water still needs to get there.
Valid points. Mine takes a dog year to reach my MBR shower. Still the benefits outweigh the negative IMO.
I just checked my 50 gallon gas water heater. The sticker says cost is between 225 and 297 dollars a year. What is the advantage of a tankless? I've never run out of hot water, at least since the kids grew out of their early teens. No half hour shower.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
Picked up a new iPad 10th gen today. My old one was 5 years old and the battery was starting to run out after a few hours use, plus it was getting a bit slow. The new one is nice although naturally they had to change things around. No physical button on it to close a running app and the new way is another non-intuitive screen gesture. Plus they did away with the Lightning connector in favor of USB C, so another new charger and cable. I don’t like that but I’ll get used to it. Everything else is bigger and better.
The Apple tech told me that they can replace the battery on an IPad for about 100 bucks. Mine doesn’t go as long as it used to (9 hours vs 12 hours) either but I may go that route when the use time really starts to degrade.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I've been working on cleaning up the Mustang. After using some heavy duty wheel cleaner and a strip wash product, it looks better but still dirty. Decided to looking into getting it detailed because there is some oil on the paint that is hard to remove. Looked at a couple of sites and saw Clay Bar, and remembered I have some clay bar and some clay bar cloths. Looks like a weekend project that could save me some money although extra labor.
What is that I’m looking at?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I was going to go tankless to replace my electric HWH, but my plumber talked me out of it. I do have nat gas in the house.
He may have talked you out of it because he doesn't install them. It is a very specialized item to install, whether you are using a gas or electric one, everyday plumbers can't do it.
We had an electric one installed almost 3 months ago. I wouldn't go back to having a tank. The shower is a fair distance from the water heater.....I am estimating....the old tank probably took 8 seconds for the hot water to flow, the tankless maybe 14 seconds...but the water is much hotter and more consistent once it is going. You can adjust the temperature of the water exactly on a digital readout.
IMHO A tank is ancient crude technology....a tankless is a giant step ahead technologically.
I’m really stunned about the disdain for tankless. They take up less space, use less energy, offer limitless hot water and you don’t have the risk of 40 or 50 gallons of water in a tank.
The only cons are if the electric goes out you will not have hot water, and a bit longer dwell time to get hot water to your fixtures (especially in a shower with a low flow shower head).
They have to be descaled, but that’s a pretty easy process that takes only a little longer than flushing your tank (which virtually no one does)
I’m really stunned about the disdain for tankless. They take up less space, use less energy, offer limitless hot water and you don’t have the risk of 40 or 50 gallons of water in a tank.
The only cons are if the electric goes out you will not have hot water, and a bit longer dwell time to get hot water to your fixtures (especially in a shower with a low flow shower head).
They have to be descaled, but that’s a pretty easy process that takes only a little longer than flushing your tank (which virtually no one does)
As it was explained to me, the tankless requires a substantial amount of energy in order to heat the relatively little bit of cold water that flows through the heat exchanger in a very short time. That process, either if burning gas or via electrical elements, introduces mechanical considerable stress on the components in a very short time period which can lead to internal failure just as in a traditional tank, but in a different way. Plus there is some sort of "smart" functionality that throttles/controls that energy use which is another point of potential failure. The descaling is probably not done by most homeowners either (i mean, really... just think about most homeowners) which can also cause failure. In the end, you can replace a tank heater every 10 years or so, or replace a tankless around the same time period for multiples more since they are far more expensive. Does the energy savings make up that extra cost? You tell me.
We had tankless in our town home. It was not my favorite. I’m going to try and nurse ours along a bit longer but I’ll start soliciting bids.
You have gas or electric? Our local utility promotes the new Hybrid electric water heaters. Basically, it's a heat pump for your hot water.
About 50% of my basement is finished and insulated. It is heated in that area but during the winter I tend to not use it so the heat is kept low, somewhere between 50 and 60 degrees. The other half where the mechanicals are is unfinished, unheated and not insulted as well (which should be addressed). In that section it gets much cooler in the winter though it does pick up some heat from the rest of the house. A heat pump water heater there would turn that area into a meat locker. Also, based on my experience with my mini-split, heat pumps do a good job of cooling in the summer but generating heat when the air temp gets around the freezing point is hit or miss. I have questions about how much the heat pump section contributes to heating the water as compared to the electric element when the basement is cool, and of course, its operation would make that environment even cooler.
IMHO A tank is ancient crude technology....a tankless is a giant step ahead technologically.
And of course, you're such a high-tech kind of guy...
As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". Or "you can pay me now or you can pay me later". In the end I have to wonder if there is much difference. With the tankless, you pay a lot to get it installed and then when the tankless lets go, you get another big bill. With the tank type you pay more to operate it but the initial and replacement cost is less. Is it a wash? Not sure.
We had tankless in our town home. It was not my favorite. I’m going to try and nurse ours along a bit longer but I’ll start soliciting bids.
You have gas or electric? Our local utility promotes the new Hybrid electric water heaters. Basically, it's a heat pump for your hot water.
About 50% of my basement is finished and insulated. It is heated in that area but during the winter I tend to not use it so the heat is kept low, somewhere between 50 and 60 degrees. The other half where the mechanicals are is unfinished, unheated and not insulted as well (which should be addressed). In that section it gets much cooler in the winter though it does pick up some heat from the rest of the house. A heat pump water heater there would turn that area into a meat locker. Also, based on my experience with my mini-split, heat pumps do a good job of cooling in the summer but generating heat when the air temp gets around the freezing point is hit or miss. I have questions about how much the heat pump section contributes to heating the water as compared to the electric element when the basement is cool, and of course, its operation would make that environment even cooler.
I think the temperature in an unheated basement would be ideal for the efficiency of the heat pump. Even in Canada, I doubt the basement ever gets near freezing. Also, you’re only heating the water in that tank, not a huge airspace.
Supposedly, it’s a substantial savings, and very little modification required. Of course, it’s all electric, and if you have natural gas (which I do), it might not be worth it.
US federal government offers rebates on the hybrid electric WH, too.
IMHO A tank is ancient crude technology....a tankless is a giant step ahead technologically.
And of course, you're such a high-tech kind of guy...
As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". Or "you can pay me now or you can pay me later". In the end I have to wonder if there is much difference. With the tankless, you pay a lot to get it installed and then when the tankless lets go, you get another big bill. With the tank type you pay more to operate it but the initial and replacement cost is less. Is it a wash? Not sure.
Our electric tankless can be serviced once a year....$100. The installers said once every 2 years would be fine....$50 a year. A tankless should last for 20 years. All the crud doesn't mount up at the bottom of a tank where water is sitting for hours or days at a time. Our tank water heater was 18 years old, it was fading for the last 2 or 3 years, not that hot, and we'd have to have the guy come and reset it 2 or 3 times a year....to me that is crude. If water is below 120 degrees it can become contaminated with bacteria......I am sure the old tank wasn't heating to 120 degrees the last few years....I can adjust the tankless on a digital scale...125F.
We have the hybrid water heater in the new shack. Seems cool, three modes: heat pump, hybrid and electric. And, vacation setting which comes in handy.
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
IMHO A tank is ancient crude technology....a tankless is a giant step ahead technologically.
And of course, you're such a high-tech kind of guy...
As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". Or "you can pay me now or you can pay me later". In the end I have to wonder if there is much difference. With the tankless, you pay a lot to get it installed and then when the tankless lets go, you get another big bill. With the tank type you pay more to operate it but the initial and replacement cost is less. Is it a wash? Not sure.
Our electric tankless can be serviced once a year....$100. The installers said once every 2 years would be fine....$50 a year. A tankless should last for 20 years. All the crud doesn't mount up at the bottom of a tank where water is sitting for hours or days at a time. Our tank water heater was 18 years old, it was fading for the last 2 or 3 years, not that hot, and we'd have to have the guy come and reset it 2 or 3 times a year....to me that is crude. If water is below 120 degrees it can become contaminated with bacteria......I am sure the old tank wasn't heating to 120 degrees the last few years....I can adjust the tankless on a digital scale...125F.
———————————————— How do you “reset” a water heater?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
@ab348 said:
As it was explained to me, the tankless requires a substantial amount of energy in order to heat the relatively little bit of cold water that flows through the heat exchanger in a very short time. That process, either if burning gas or via electrical elements, introduces mechanical considerable stress on the components in a very short time period which can lead to internal failure just as in a traditional tank, but in a different way. Plus there is some sort of "smart" functionality that throttles/controls that energy use which is another point of potential failure. The descaling is probably not done by most homeowners either (i mean, really... just think about most homeowners) which can also cause failure. In the end, you can replace a tank heater every 10 years or so, or replace a tankless around the same time period for multiples more since they are far more expensive. Does the energy savings make up that extra cost? You tell me.
I never mentioned an ROI on it. I’m sure that’s a losing proposition as is the case with Hybrid cars, super HE furnaces etc
In my case we have five in the household. At night after dinner typically my wife takes a bath in her big tub, and each kid takes a shower or bath simultaneously. This all gets done with no loss of hot water.
At the shore we have a 40 Gallon gas. If you fill both bathtubs or take 3 back to back showers you are waiting until it recovers.
Comments
The large local HVAC supply houses will not sell to civilians but he told me of a place in Danville,Ky that sells to the public. Took a 30 minute road trip there and bought 2 for $20 each retail. HVAC company charged $120 for the part plus the trip. The guy I knew asked for $25 so I gave him $50, win win.
Been there myself. This was from a few years ago with our old unit. I was able to order a replacement through Granger.
I’ve never seen a residential air handler (blower unit) that uses capacitors. Do you mean the outdoor compressor unit? They always have a capacitor for the compressor and most times for the compressor cooling fan.
And you mentioned fuses, they work well but I haven’t seen those used for years. Everything I’ve been seeing is breakers.
Close to 300 bucks for a service call is outrageous. Around here it’s half of that.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Probably more detail than anyone wants:
So, the capacitor I was referring to is on the outside compressor, yes. The Bryant furnace and air handler are original the house (11 years ago). We added AC 5 years ago after moving in (Trane XR16 slim profile due to lot lines). The furnace and air handler is on one breaker and the AC compressor is on another. So that part is fine.
However the Air Handler circuit board has a 3 amp automotive fuse on the board that I imagine is for voltage regulation? I dunno. That fuse blew today and basically has disabled the entire system - thermostat, blower, AC, furnace etc.
When I replaced the fuse, the blower and furnace are fine. But as soon as I try to start the AC the fuse will blow after a few minutes. That’s what leads me to thinking the capacitor is borked.
I lost two capacitors on my prior AC unit. Basically it ceased to kick on the compressor. First time around in 2016ish, it cost 3-something out the door,having one of the HVAC repair outfits come out.
Second go-round in 2019, probably should have been a similar deal, BUT… I went down the rabbit hole of clearing some of the brush growth near my AC unit. I broke out my electric hedge trimmers to cut some stuff back, and I hit the high pressure line and caused a vivid venting of refrigerant to free air. So a $300 capacitor replacement turned into almost $6k for a new unit.
It's kind of funny because the rear ends go up pretty high and then come crashing down, as the drivers continue on trying to make it look like nothing happened.
We mentioned it to the owner and he said it happens a lot more often in the winter.......when the snow can cover the curb.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Obviously I don’t see the schematic of your circuit board but that board is for controlling you furnace and blower. You proved that by replacing the fuse which allowed your furnace and blower to work normally. However, that board operates a relay that provides low voltage power to the compressor contactor located in the outside compressor unit. This relay also selects a higher blower speed for AC. If somehow the relay itself is bad that would also blow the 3 amp fuse. Thereby not allowing the compressor to kick in.
Most of the time when a compressor capacitor is bad the compressor won’t operate and depending how the capacitor fails, the 220 volt AC circuit breaker will trip but you didn’t say that happened.
Let us know the outcome.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Today the wife texted me she got a tornado warning, which is rare for developed areas here. About 10 minutes later I got the same warning on my phone - the house is about 10 miles east of the cooking studio.
Got dark, started to rain, started to hail again. Learned later that a tornado did touch down just south of the studio and was on the ground for about 6 miles, heading west to east. Tore up some trees and fences, but nothing worse than that.
The cooking studio is across the street from the Olive Garden, just north of the highway - the red line is the path of the tornado.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Scary but glad all are safe.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yup, well I skimmed it, I am pretty busy these days. But I bet all the motorcyclists who got hit by drivers making a left turn thought they would stop in time. And how many slow down and get hit from behind, which happens a lot.
Not saying it is the motorcyclists fault. There are a lot of car drivers who don't see or judge motorcyclists. They make a left turn and don't seem to even see a motorcycle coming, often when it is too late for the motorcyclist to stop or take evasive action. One lady passenger was killed recently when the motorcycle driver slowed down to make a right turn....he may have eased into the turn better, but still, hard to drive defensively when you get slammed from the rear....and a lot of car drivers are on their phones or are texting.
Defensive driving is an excellent way to avoid an accident, but it isn't completely "foolproof"......like getting hit from the rear when you stop for an amber light, and you get slammed by a giant garbage truck.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
@pensfan83
In 2021, when they opened up the case on my son's unit, it seems a not all that small snake had sacrificed his life, in order for me to loan my son $9000 for a new HVAC unit. Two capacitors blown.. Estimated total bill of $900 to "maybe fix" an old unit.
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Not saying it is the motorcyclists fault. There are a lot of car drivers who don't see or judge motorcyclists. They make a left turn and don't seem to even see a motorcycle coming, often when it is too late for the motorcyclist to stop or take evasive action. One lady passenger was killed recently when the motorcycle driver slowed down to make a right turn....he may have eased into the turn better, but still, hard to drive defensively when you get slammed from the rear....and a lot of car drivers are on their phones or are texting.
Defensive driving is an excellent way to avoid an accident, but it isn't completely "foolproof"......like getting hit from the rear when you stop for an amber light, and you get slammed by a giant garbage truck.
Which is why you should always check your six when slowing down for a stoplight or stopped traffic- no matter what you are driving/riding. A few years ago my son came up on some stopped traffic on the interstate and saw that the car behind him was closing very quickly. He pulled into the emergency lane while the car behind him slammed on its brakes and barely missed running into the truck that had been in front of my son's car. We teach that at Street Survival and the MSF teaches it in the Basic RiderCourse.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Took some haggling but Lennox warranties part of it but still ended up being $1700 IIRC. Debated a new unit for $5k but seemed unnecessary. Maybe if I was staying there another 20 years. Worked fine once fixed. Furnace was certainly ok.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Similar situation to my heater at the shore. The heat exchanger went which usually means time for a new unit. Well there was a campaign on those units with a very long warranty. Carrier covered all the parts and 50% of the labor. Fixed it for $700 rather than a whole new unit.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Anything under $1k is an instant yes for repair because still under parts warranty. Anything more and we talk seriously since the furnace is 11 years old and an only OK one.
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Fortunately, your son drives defensively and avoided an accident. If I were to guess I would say less than half of drivers drive defensively. I was surprised that this week I found a car on my back bumper on the 3 days I was on the highway....traveling 65 mph. I was keeping up with traffic, but on all 3 days I found a car following too close......so it means I have to leave a larger gap in case I have to suddenly slow down or stop.
Defensive driving is great, but there can be a situation when someone does something that you can't possibly have anticipated.
Since people may be interested. i have been driving for 60 years. I have driven taxi cabs, a salesman (driving 25k miles a year), taught high school driving in the car and classroom. I have had two fairly serious accidents, one was the dump truck that ploughed into me, and the other was a car that went through a stop sign. And I have had 2 other small fender benders where the other guy pulled out from the curb and hit me. There is no way I could have anticipated those accidents....they really came from out of nowhere.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
For those keeping score the contactor went bad on the compressor - should have 16 ohms and has all of 1. $400 + tax for the visit. I’m sure the part is $50 but whatever.
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If I’m reading your post correctly, the coil on the contactor is reading 1 ohm but it should be reading 16 ohms. If that’s the case the coil would be drawing around 16 times the normal current. That’s plenty enough to blow the 3 amp fuse but I’m surprised it didn’t happen instantly (I think you said it took a couple minutes). In any case the guy found the culprit and you’re up and running again.
FWIW, I did a quick check for the price of an AC contactor and it was less than 20 bucks.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Yep. I know. He did give me fair warning what I already know - our hot water tank is 11 years old and probably nearing end of life. Hoping to squeak another couple years out of it.
Go tankless. You won’t regret it.
And .. any repair under a G is a win IMO
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Also, the tankless unit needs to be close to your shower because the warm water still needs to get there.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
After using some heavy duty wheel cleaner and a strip wash product, it looks better but still dirty.
Decided to looking into getting it detailed because there is some oil on the paint that is hard to remove.
Looked at a couple of sites and saw Clay Bar, and remembered I have some clay bar and some clay bar cloths.
Looks like a weekend project that could save me some money although extra labor.
Valid points. Mine takes a dog year to reach my MBR shower. Still the benefits outweigh the negative IMO.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
We had tankless in our town home. It was not my favorite. I’m going to try and nurse ours along a bit longer but I’ll start soliciting bids.
What is the advantage of a tankless? I've never run out of hot water, at least since the kids grew out of their early teens. No half hour shower.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We had an electric one installed almost 3 months ago. I wouldn't go back to having a tank. The shower is a fair distance from the water heater.....I am estimating....the old tank probably took 8 seconds for the hot water to flow, the tankless maybe 14 seconds...but the water is much hotter and more consistent once it is going. You can adjust the temperature of the water exactly on a digital readout.
IMHO A tank is ancient crude technology....a tankless is a giant step ahead technologically.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
That's the lower left side of the front bumper after washing it.
We have a gas unit that's at least 10 yrs old.
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I’m really stunned about the disdain for tankless. They take up less space, use less energy, offer limitless hot water and you don’t have the risk of 40 or 50 gallons of water in a tank.
The only cons are if the electric goes out you will not have hot water, and a bit longer dwell time to get hot water to your fixtures (especially in a shower with a low flow shower head).
They have to be descaled, but that’s a pretty easy process that takes only a little longer than flushing your tank (which virtually no one does)
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As the saying goes, "you pays your money and you makes your choice". Or "you can pay me now or you can pay me later". In the end I have to wonder if there is much difference. With the tankless, you pay a lot to get it installed and then when the tankless lets go, you get another big bill. With the tank type you pay more to operate it but the initial and replacement cost is less. Is it a wash? Not sure.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Supposedly, it’s a substantial savings, and very little modification required.
Of course, it’s all electric, and if you have natural gas (which I do), it might not be worth it.
US federal government offers rebates on the hybrid electric WH, too.
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A tankless should last for 20 years. All the crud doesn't mount up at the bottom of a tank where water is sitting for hours or days at a time.
Our tank water heater was 18 years old, it was fading for the last 2 or 3 years, not that hot, and we'd have to have the guy come and reset it 2 or 3 times a year....to me that is crude.
If water is below 120 degrees it can become contaminated with bacteria......I am sure the old tank wasn't heating to 120 degrees the last few years....I can adjust the tankless on a digital scale...125F.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
We have natural gas. The quote for tankless for this house (the one I had done) was about $10k.
My issue with tankless in our townhome was that it wasn’t a slightly longer dwell time for hot water - it was minutes from any faucet.
How do you “reset” a water heater?
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
That seems a bit high even for your neck of the woods.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
I never mentioned an ROI on it. I’m sure that’s a losing proposition as is the case with Hybrid cars, super HE furnaces etc
In my case we have five in the household. At night after dinner typically my wife takes a bath in her big tub, and each kid takes a shower or bath simultaneously. This all gets done with no loss of hot water.
At the shore we have a 40 Gallon gas. If you fill both bathtubs or take 3 back to back showers you are waiting until it recovers.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart