Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

tjc78

@jmonroe1 said:
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For convenience alone I’d still install it. As I’ve gotten older I like convenience more and more.

jmonroe

I hear you … I’m really on the fence about it. It will be a super easy install. Panel is in the garage in the perfect spot to install it.

6’ of 6/3 and a 50 amp breaker and I’m good to go. The charger I was looking at can be hardwired.

kyfdx

Not having a panel in the garage is likely to push away the time I'd get an EV. $1000+ just to get the wiring over there.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

Sounds good......unless you have to go on a 350 mile trip.
I have limited knowledge but my Tesla friend said you should only charge the car to 80%. That brings 250 miles down to 200. Also, it shouldn't go below 5%, that knocks off another 12 miles, now we are below 200 miles. And are you going to wait until you are almost empty, so you should maybe leave 20 miles to get to a charging station and hope there is a charger available and that is working. And you might use more electricity if you are caught in traffic jam, or need a/c, radio, wipers, heat, plug in cooler etc.

Charge once on the way, charge when you arrive, charge on the way home, charge up when you get home.
But what do I know? Oh, and people say charging isn't a problem, just get something to eat while the car is charging. I'll gain 50 pounds and I'll spend more on food than I would on gas.

Once again, good if it suits your needs. Hybrids go about 20 to 55 miles. A guy goes to work 25 miles from home, round trip 25 X 2 = 50 miles....he'll need a charge every night to get to work and back. When those people were surveyed they said they don't plug her in every night, they would rather buy gas once a week.
Just trying to find answers. You don't learn unless you ask.

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Having a home charger and not plugging your car in to keep it charged is the epitome of laziness. I’d be willing to bet those folks don’t do oil changes at the recommended change interval either. Why? “Because I have an electric car”.

jmonroe

stickguy

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
This was a new one for me. A truck from a place called Bin & Bath pulled up the neighbors and cleaned their trash bins.
Edit. Wife told me there is more than 1 company that comes around to clean bins.

Yeah apparently it is a growing thing now.

Down the shore there are also companies that will take you trash out on the scheduled day and bring the cans back the next. Great for those who only come on the weekends.

I’d wager you could pay someone to plug your EV in at night too. 😎😎

In our shore town the DPW comes in the back yard and gets the pails to the curb (actually I think they take the garbage bags to the curb and leaves the pails). Makes sense with summer rentals that would likely forget to do it. Nice touch!

stickguy

@roadburner said:
That would be me; and I plug my PHEV in every night. As I mentioned above, it takes about all of 15 seconds- but then I don't need to hire a guy to do it for me.

PHEVs make more sense since range is a lot smaller. Better chance to always have no engine driving.

stickguy

Our jersey house had the panel in the perfect spot in garage. Would need about 1’ of wire. This house it’s in the basement but at least right below the back wall of the garage. The house being built, no clue but I assume basement. Which is why I want the outlet built in.

roadburner

stickguy said:

PHEVs make more sense since range is a lot smaller. Better chance to always have no engine driving.

On my daily commute the IC motor rarely -if ever- turns on. Right now I'm averaging 34 mpg; the number would be higher but I've driven it on a few longer trips where I ran in eSave with battery charge.

dino001

stickguy said:

And I think the reason to not always plug in is battery health. Better to drain to that 20% or so and charge it back up than to always have it on a charger.

Here is where I hear conflicting advice. My understanding is EV batteries are basically supersized smartphone batteries plus a bit more sophisticated software management, but I may be wrong about it. Many say perfect range for longevity for a smartphone battery is charging it between 40 and 80-85 percent, i.e. charge it often, don't let it run low and don't go high. I don't do that to my iphone (I charge it overnight, but try not to let it run too low), but that's what I hear/read is supposedly ideal battery range. This would mean if the car is used for commuting and uses around 30-40 percent per round trip, it would mean charging it in the early evening every day for a few hours and unplugging before going to bed, so it is at said 80 percent. But I don't know if that's really a good way, never really investigated that issue in depth outside of "low-bad/high-bad" mental shortcut.

tjc78

@stickguy said:

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
This was a new one for me. A truck from a place called Bin & Bath pulled up the neighbors and cleaned their trash bins.
Edit. Wife told me there is more than 1 company that comes around to clean bins.

Yeah apparently it is a growing thing now.

Down the shore there are also companies that will take you trash out on the scheduled day and bring the cans back the next. Great for those who only come on the weekends.

I’d wager you could pay someone to plug your EV in at night too. 😎😎

In our shore town the DPW comes in the back yard and gets the pails to the curb (actually I think they take the garbage bags to the curb and leaves the pails). Makes sense with summer rentals that would likely forget to do it. Nice touch!

In SH I’m not surprised. That place is waaayyyy out of my league!

stickguy

Oh you could drop 2.4mill for a place mid block if you weren’t a tightwad.

jmonroe1

explorerx4 said:

I just get out the hose and some Simple Green.

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I just leave it alone. After all it’s a garbage can. And better yet how does a garbage can get dirty today when you have to use plastic bags for your garbage?

jmonroe

stickguy

I just checked my iPhone. Says after 14 months it’s at about 92% original capacity. And I always charge to full. No clue if that is good or bad!

Also you don’t have to unplug the EV. Can program the car to charge to whatever you want and stop.

tjc78

@stickguy said:
Oh you could drop 2.4mill for a place mid block if you weren’t a tightwad.

Sure I’ll just grab the Franklin’s off the money tree in the back yard!

My Mom has a friend with a home there. Very close to the beach. It must be worth 5M+

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I would never pay for that. I own a hose and way too many cleaning products thanks to my wife.

And risk the disapproving looks from the Twin Bridges or County Waste truck driver? Very well, it’s your social reputation on the line.😩

driver100

According to a new study from the International Council on Clean Transportation, which was shared by Green Car Reports, many people aren't using their PHEVs as advertised. The self-reported fuel economy figures used in the study come from Fuelly.com, and other important data was collected by the California Bureau of Automotive Repair.

Based on the study, real-world electric miles driven in PHEVs could be 25 to 65 percent lower than the vehicle allows. Moreover, PHEV drivers are consuming 42 to 67 more fuel than the EPA estimates.


Keep in mind, nearly every PHEV on the market today is also available as a gas-only car or a traditional hybrid with no plug. For example, you could spend a good chunk of change on the Toyota RAV4 Prime (PHEV), and save money driving it. However, if you don't want to deal with plugging it in, you can just buy the RAV4 Hybrid or standard RAV4. The same is true of vehicles like the Hyundai Tucson and Santa Fe, Kia Sportage and Sorento, and many more.

Why then would people even buy a PHEV if they don't plan to plug it in? Perhaps they thought it would work out differently at the time of purchase, or they just stopped dealing with the plug. However, now with the full $7,500 US federal EV tax credit available for PHEVs even with the slightest electric range, more people will likely buy them. Hopefully, with more education, more people will actually charge them.
https://insideevs.com/news/630341/plug-in-hybrids-arent-being-plugged-in-study/

....and this from the BBC;
Transport and Environment's analysis says a key problem with plug-in hybrids is that so many owners rarely actually charge their cars, meaning they rely on the petrol or diesel engine.
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207

sda

I think I read on most EVs you can set a charge level limit, say to 80%.

kyfdx

Where I grew up, in our little working class neighborhood, they always came to the back of the house to get the garbage cans.

Of course, this was the '60s.

tjc78

@sda said:
I think I read on most EVs you can set a charge level limit, say to 80%.

Correct.

I’m leasing mine so if we do have a longer drive it will be charged to 100%. One of the biggest reasons to charge to 80% is charging slows down after that point to protect the battery.

stickguy

@oldfarmer50 said:
And risk the disapproving looks from the Twin Bridges or County Waste truck driver? Very well, it’s your social reputation on the line.😩

They stay in the cab in air conditioned comfort. Doubt they know how stinky my pails are.

stickguy

Growing up, the garbage men opened the garage door and got the pails out. Considering the job owned the carting company nobody complained. Especially because you did not have to bring the pails out.

Yes this was before most people had electric openers. And nobody locked the garage door.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Growing up, the garbage men opened the garage door and got the pails out. Considering the job owned the carting company nobody complained. Especially because you did not have to bring the pails out.

Yes this was before most people had electric openers. And nobody locked the garage door.

————————————————
I remember the days before everyone had a garage door opener.

When I was in my first house, one day (around 1974 if I had to guess), I decided to get a garage door opener, just because. It turned out I was the first on my block. Then all of a sudden everyone got one. I guess they had to keep up with the @jmonroe’s.

jmonroe

laurasdada

One small datapoint, I generally keep my PHEV battery charged. As so much of my no longer commuting mileage is <30/trip, no sleeping dinosaurs needed. And, there are still free, functional L2 chargers out there!
As mine is a PHEV, I've not installed a 240v outlet/L2 charger in my garage; the 110 fills 'er up in ~16 hours. Which sounds long, but it's simply plug in at night, unplug in the am/when ready. And, I simply take advantage of the L2s out in the wild, no DC required for me.
Of course, since I bought the M240, a bit more of a Tetris game to swap the M and the A7 to allow me to charge.
Again, try to have a rudimentary understanding of the technology you're considering. If you understand the unbelievable complexities of (plugging in) an EV/PHEV and it fits your use-case, buy/lease and enjoy!

stickguy

Honestly, comparing it to using a gas pump plugging in and charging your EV at home is incredibly simple. And your hands don’t get stinky.

tjc78

I just fail to see a downside owning one at this point especially with a gas vehicle in the household.

We will see.. maybe my wife and I will tire of it. Who knows

laurasdada

An EV could replace the A7, just would love to see the Taycan or Audi e-tron GT with true (read, winter in NE) 300 mile range (round trip to my most common "long distance" destination is ~230 miles, with iffy chargers available at the destination) and a significant price drop! Yeah, a Porsche price drop... did a pig just fly by my window?

snakeweasel

kyfdx said:

90% of vehicle charging is done during non-peak hours. The capacity is already there for that.

I would really have to question that. What happens when 25 million EV owners plug in their cars on a hot summers night when everyone has their A/C's going and everyone is sitting in their home watching TV then when all of us Cars and Conversation members hop online that will really overload the grid.

snakeweasel

mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

That’s assuming that your house has sufficient amperage. Older homes may incurred a sizeable capital expense.

You would need about 500 amps just for the super charger and Tesla does not sell superchargers to the public

https://www.effortlesselectric.com/can-i-install-a-tesla-supercharger-at-home/

I think he means level 2 chargers but most of those can be set with scheduled charging start and stop times.

Aren't super chargers DC and not AC like you find in your home?

kyfdx

snakeweasel said:

kyfdx said:

90% of vehicle charging is done during non-peak hours. The capacity is already there for that.

I would really have to question that. What happens when 25 million EV owners plug in their cars on a hot summers night when everyone has their A/C's going and everyone is sitting in their home watching TV then when all of us Cars and Conversation members hop online that will really overload the grid.

How long do you think it will take for there to be 25 million EV owners?

On a related note, a rural electric co-op in KY put in a new substation, just for a bitcoin mining operation. So, seems like extra capacity might not be an issue.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

Sounds good......unless you have to go on a 350 mile trip.
I have limited knowledge but my Tesla friend said you should only charge the car to 80%. That brings 250 miles down to 200. Also, it shouldn't go below 5%, that knocks off another 12 miles, now we are below 200 miles. And are you going to wait until you are almost empty, so you should maybe leave 20 miles to get to a charging station and hope there is a charger available and that is working. And you might use more electricity if you are caught in traffic jam, or need a/c, radio, wipers, heat, plug in cooler etc.

I believe that it's 85% is the limit for good battery health. FWIW many cell phones have a setting in your batter maintenance settings that will stop the charging process at 85%.

driver100 said:

But what do I know? Oh, and people say charging isn't a problem, just get something to eat while the car is charging. I'll gain 50 pounds and I'll spend more on food than I would on gas.

Me and She Who Must Be Obeyed did a day trip to Holland Michigan last month. In an EV we would have had to find a place there to charge up and someplace along the way home to charge up again (we did a significant amount of driving while there). We did the entire trip on one tank of gas with the Sonata.

driver100 said:

Once again, good if it suits your needs. Hybrids go about 20 to 55 miles. A guy goes to work 25 miles from home, round trip 25 X 2 = 50 miles....he'll need a charge every night to get to work and back. When those people were surveyed they said they don't plug her in every night, they would rather buy gas once a week.
Just trying to find answers. You don't learn unless you ask.

Good idea as gas doesn't have a long shelf life.

tjc78

I’ve decided my neighborhood was too quiet for Halloween. I broke out the Yamaha 15” DJ speakers and Denon amp. Set it up on my porch.

Letting roll all out with Apple Music Halloween playlist. Just had a large group and they loved it

I was about 100DB across the street…. Mission accomplished.

venture

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

Growing up, the garbage men opened the garage door and got the pails out. Considering the job owned the carting company nobody complained. Especially because you did not have to bring the pails out.

Yes this was before most people had electric openers. And nobody locked the garage door.

————————————————
I remember the days before everyone had a garage door opener.

When I was in my first house, one day (around 1974 if I had to guess), I decided to get a garage door opener, just because. It turned out I was the first on my block. Then all of a sudden everyone got one. I guess they had to keep up with the @jmonroe’s.

jmonroe

I meant to tell you (I don't know why). My son-in-law was putting air in a tire on his work truck a week or so ago and Mike Tomlin was waiting to put air in his daughters Bronco.

My SIL resisted the temptation to ask for an autograph and just talked to him.

snakeweasel

mjfloyd1 said:

@dino001 said:

House chargers are not superchargers. Those do it in less than hour, not overnight. Nevertheless they still draw a decent amount of energy.

Agreed. Apparently some posters think you can have a DC supercharger in your garage when the best that you can get is a Level 2 charger. Notice the 🙄emoji

Well it could be done if your building codes allow it and you don't mind spending a lot a ton of money on it so you can seriously degrade your battery faster over time.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Keep in mind that ICE has had a century for the infrastructure to mature.

Not to mention that the infrastructure matured along with the ICE car. When the infrastructure for the ICE was just starting and small there really weren't that many cars on the roads.

snakeweasel

tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:

This was a new one for me. A truck from a place called Bin & Bath pulled up the neighbors and cleaned their trash bins.

Edit. Wife told me there is more than 1 company that comes around to clean bins.

Yeah apparently it is a growing thing now.

Down the shore there are also companies that will take you trash out on the scheduled day and bring the cans back the next. Great for those who only come on the weekends.

I’d wager you could pay someone to plug your EV in at night too. 😎😎

Well I see that seeing that there are companies that will come out and clean up your dogs poop. I do not attend the outdoor gatherings at their customers homes.

snakeweasel

kyfdx said:

snakeweasel said:

kyfdx said:

90% of vehicle charging is done during non-peak hours. The capacity is already there for that.

I would really have to question that. What happens when 25 million EV owners plug in their cars on a hot summers night when everyone has their A/C's going and everyone is sitting in their home watching TV then when all of us Cars and Conversation members hop online that will really overload the grid.

How long do you think it will take for there to be 25 million EV owners?

On a related note, a rural electric co-op in KY put in a new substation, just for a bitcoin mining operation. So, seems like extra capacity might not be an issue.

Going by current trends it won't be too long. Maybe 10 years give or take.

snakeweasel

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

Growing up, the garbage men opened the garage door and got the pails out. Considering the job owned the carting company nobody complained. Especially because you did not have to bring the pails out.

Yes this was before most people had electric openers. And nobody locked the garage door.

————————————————
I remember the days before everyone had a garage door opener.

When I was in my first house, one day (around 1974 if I had to guess), I decided to get a garage door opener, just because. It turned out I was the first on my block. Then all of a sudden everyone got one. I guess they had to keep up with the @jmonroe’s.

jmonroe

I remember my grandfathers garage doors that opened to the side by folding.

snakeweasel

Well it's Halloween and I am sitting by the front door for the trick or treaters so I can give them their long awaited candy. About a month ago we replaced the front door dead bolt with one of those electric ones with a keypad. This one relocks the door after a set amount of time, so when I am handing out the candy the deadbolt slides out again in an attempt to lock the opened door and I keep on forgetting that it locks automatically and I try to close the door with the deadbolt out.

qbrozen

@tjc78 said:
I just fail to see a downside owning one at this point especially with a gas vehicle in the household.

We will see.. maybe my wife and I will tire of it. Who knows

If she is anything like my wife, it will just take one instance of “well, I was out running errands and wanted to go to one more store 2 towns away but was already down to 75 miles of range and didn’t want to get stranded.” Then she is back to driving the gasser every day “just in case.”

roadburner

snakeweasel said:

Good idea as gas doesn't have a long shelf life.

The 4xe has a Fuel Oil Refresh Mode- AKA: FORM. The FORM algorithms requires the IC motor to occasionally run long enough to reach operating temperature and use a minimum amount of gasoline.

roadburner

I filled up the 4xe today; It averaged 50.2 mpg.
At least there's an upside to that horribly inconvenient and diabolically complex plug in/unplug procedure.

imidazol97

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

Good idea as gas doesn't have a long shelf life.

The 4xe has a Fuel Oil Refresh Mode- AKA: FORM. The FORM algorithms requires the IC motor to occasionally run long enough to reach operating temperature and use a minimum amount of gasoline.

I recall talking to the owners of a Volt in for service at my Chev dealer. I believe they said they are told to use premium fuel because of shelf life being better with premium. I recall somewhere hearing that the fuel system is pressurized to help the life of the fuel and that that engine would run at spaced intervals for the good of the engine.

Are you required to use premium gas?

stickguy

hybrids really are a wonderful concept. the Maverick has averaged just about 42 MPG so far in mixed driving. and that is with no plugs. just drive it like any normal car. Might be a small pickup but still not a small vehicle overall, and has a lot of practicality.

jmonroe1

venture said:

jmonroe1 said:

stickguy said:

Growing up, the garbage men opened the garage door and got the pails out. Considering the job owned the carting company nobody complained. Especially because you did not have to bring the pails out.

Yes this was before most people had electric openers. And nobody locked the garage door.

————————————————
I remember the days before everyone had a garage door opener.

When I was in my first house, one day (around 1974 if I had to guess), I decided to get a garage door opener, just because. It turned out I was the first on my block. Then all of a sudden everyone got one. I guess they had to keep up with the @jmonroe’s.

jmonroe

I meant to tell you (I don't know why). My son-in-law was putting air in a tire on his work truck a week or so ago and Mike Tomlin was waiting to put air in his daughters Bronco.

My SIL resisted the temptation to ask for an autograph and just talked to him.

————————————————
I wouldn’t have bothered to do even that. He’s overstayed his welcome by at least 4 years. I’ve settled in for more of the same until he’s gone.

If I were him I’d buy a home compressor just so I could stay away from the public as much as possible.

jmonroe

roadburner

imidazol97 said:

roadburner said:

snakeweasel said:

Good idea as gas doesn't have a long shelf life.

The 4xe has a Fuel Oil Refresh Mode- AKA: FORM. The FORM algorithms requires the IC motor to occasionally run long enough to reach operating temperature and use a minimum amount of gasoline.

I recall talking to the owners of a Volt in for service at my Chev dealer. I believe they said they are told to use premium fuel because of shelf life being better with premium. I recall somewhere hearing that the fuel system is pressurized to help the life of the fuel and that that engine would run at spaced intervals for the good of the engine.

Are you required to use premium gas?

It's not required but is recommended. I use premium (BP, Shell, or Sunoco) as it should let the engine run a bit higher boost and more timing advance.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

mjfloyd1 said:

@dino001 said:

House chargers are not superchargers. Those do it in less than hour, not overnight. Nevertheless they still draw a decent amount of energy.

Agreed. Apparently some posters think you can have a DC supercharger in your garage when the best that you can get is a Level 2 charger. Notice the 🙄emoji

Well it could be done if your building codes allow it and you don't mind spending a lot a ton of money on it so you can seriously degrade your battery faster over time.

But some people told me you don't get a Supercharger for home use and yet that article said you probably could arrange to buy one, for about $20000. Then you can charge your car in one hour instead of 8. Say, if you come home on empty and find your buddy got tickets for a football game 100 miles away...and you have to get there and back real quick...no problem in a gasser....may miss the game if you have an EV.

Now who's the one that knew what he was talking about?

driver100

roadburner said:

I filled up the 4xe today; It averaged 50.2 mpg.
At least there's an upside to that horribly inconvenient and diabolically complex plug in/unplug procedure.

Glad to hear you were able to master it.

oldfarmer50

kyfdx said:

Where I grew up, in our little working class neighborhood, they always came to the back of the house to get the garbage cans.

Of course, this was the '60s.

I’ve got a guy who takes the garbage out of the kitchen loads it in a van and drives it straight to the dump….

Me.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Honestly, comparing it to using a gas pump plugging in and charging your EV at home is incredibly simple. And your hands don’t get stinky.

If you’re pouring gas on your stinky hands, you’re doing it wrong.🤨

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

Well it's Halloween and I am sitting by the front door for the trick or treaters so I can give them their long awaited candy. About a month ago we replaced the front door dead bolt with one of those electric ones with a keypad. This one relocks the door after a set amount of time, so when I am handing out the candy the deadbolt slides out again in an attempt to lock the opened door and I keep on forgetting that it locks automatically and I try to close the door with the deadbolt out.

AI strikes again!

tjc78

@qbrozen said:

@tjc78 said:
I just fail to see a downside owning one at this point especially with a gas vehicle in the household.

We will see.. maybe my wife and I will tire of it. Who knows

If she is anything like my wife, it will just take one instance of “well, I was out running errands and wanted to go to one more store 2 towns away but was already down to 75 miles of range and didn’t want to get stranded.” Then she is back to driving the gasser every day “just in case.”

Well if that happens there is a RAM 1500 in her future!