Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I forgot about the back seats...they always did that right.

On some of them, the back seat wrapped around into the side panels. Looked so good!

That wraparound affect is gorgeous....I don't think anyone really does that these days. And, that color is very nice too......stunning.

suydam

I'm sure you are very discouraged but it may help to know that people who suffer a loss or are under a lot of stress are more vulnerable to injuries and illness. And sometimes there's plain bad breaks. You've been through a lot. Hopefully this too will pass and you will be back to a healthier self soon.

abacomike

suydam said:

I'm sure you are very discouraged but it may help to know that people who suffer a loss or are under a lot of stress are more vulnerable to injuries and illness. And sometimes there's plain bad breaks. You've been through a lot. Hopefully this too will pass and you will be back to a healthier self soon.

Thanks, suydam!

nyccarguy

Hang in there Mike! Happy New Year!

roadburner

Hang tough, Mike!!!

berri

I like buttons and knobs that you can easily and quickly find and use, not all of today's miniature clutter.

Mike, I could say "at least you didn't cut yourself on the glass", or "clod" - but really, chances are that disc was weak already, so the younger you are with that surgery the better the result will probably be. So maybe you can say "you lucked out"???

verdugo

abacomike said:

Well, when it rains it pours.  I was just admitted to the hospital - fell off a step stool trying to replace a fluorescent light bulb in the kitchen.  Herniated a disk in my lower back.  They are giving me pain meds IV.  I just don't seem to be able to catch a break in this life of mine.  What can I say?   

Hope you make a speedy recovery!

verdugo

abacomike said:

Well, when it rains it pours.  I was just admitted to the hospital - fell off a step stool trying to replace a fluorescent light bulb in the kitchen.  Herniated a disk in my lower back.  They are giving me pain meds IV.  I just don't seem to be able to catch a break in this life of mine.  What can I say?   

Hope you make a speedy recovery!

Michaell

@abacomike - so sorry to hear of your fall and subsequent medical issues. As others have already said, hang in there!

abacomike

Being in the hospital is much like being in a prison where you have to always be on guard for fear for your life.  Given the opportunity, be it clerical or judgmental on the part of the nurses or doctors, they will kill you - not premeditatedly, but rather out of benign neglect.

One must consistently question medications and the doses if you want to live long enough to see another sunrise.  I learned that through my own experiences and, most recently, the demise of my Dad at the hands of those who would be called medical officials.

The doctor's orders for injecting insulin into my arm was a true death certificate in the making.  Normal blood sugar levels range from 90 to 110.  The nurse took my blood sugar and it was 210 - significantly above the normal range.  The orders called for 3 units of insulin.  I normally take 45 units twice a day before breakfast and dinner.  So the 3 units won't do a thing to lower my blood sugar levels sufficiently.  Additionally I am being given steroids which boost blood sugar levels significantly.  How do these doctors earn medical degrees?After many phone calls to the doctor (hospitalist) it was determined that I need significantly higher doses of insulin.  What would have happened if I didn't question the doses and orders?  

So now you know how hospitals and medical staff can, if left to their own devices.  It's just downright scary!  

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

Well, when it rains it pours.  I was just admitted to the hospital - fell off a step stool trying to replace a fluorescent light bulb in the kitchen.  Herniated a disk in my lower back.  They are giving me pain meds IV.  I just don't seem to be able to catch a break in this life of mine.  What can I say?   

Well, that sucks! Get well soon.

oldfarmer50

Must be scammers week on CL.

Found this one:

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5203875645.html

Not only does the description sound like it was composed in Nigeria "manual transaction" but I can tell from the photos that the pictures are of a GT automatic not a GS manual.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

Must be scammers week on CL.

Found this one:

http://albany.craigslist.org/cto/5203875645.html

Not only does the description sound like it was composed in Nigeria "manual transaction" but I can tell from the photos that the pictures are of a GT automatic not a GS manual.

Not only manual transaction, but new 4 tires and breaks


2009 Mitsubishi eclipse GS manual transaction, excellent condition, new 4 tires and breaks.

It's in Albany so close enough for you to give it a look...just don't put any money down before you see it.

How can someone say it is a manual when it is an automatic, unless they aren't really selling it?

graphicguy

Get well Mike.

Driver....every time I attend those classic car shows, I always seek out the early-mid 60s T-Birds because they indeed had style, inside and out. Of course, it doesn't take long for me to wander over to the big block cars of the same era, either.

Cadillac update....got a call from the dealer on Saturday that my car was finished. Went to pick it up and they stated that they updated the steering control module needed a new update and the cock spring. Not sure what that is.

As far as CUE being inoperative, they said it works on their phone, so there's nothing wrong. Don't know what their phone is, but mine is an iPhone 6 with the latest OS. So, apparently, they found some phone, somewhere, that did work, and declared it "operating as normal".

Again, they said it didn't stall for them, so "operating as designed".

Here's the kicker. Instead of saying that the car was in their shop for a month+, they wrote up 3 different service tickets stating for each individual issue, all of which took one day to fix....meaning, apparently, it wasn't in their shop since August 4, and retuned to me on Sept 12. But it was in their shop 8/4 one time, 8/21 one time, 9/8 one time.

Oh, and haven't heard back from Cadillac resolution lady who was supposed to call me Friday a.m.

Now, they're just flat out lying. How pathetic Cadillac has become.

jpp75

graphicguy said:

Get well Mike.

Driver....every time I attend those classic car shows, I always seek out the early-mid 60s T-Birds because they indeed had style, inside and out. Of course, it doesn't take long for me to wander over to the big block cars of the same era, either.

Cadillac update....got a call from the dealer on Saturday that my car was finished. Went to pick it up and they stated that they updated the steering control module needed a new update and the cock spring. Not sure what that is.

As far as CUE being inoperative, they said it works on their phone, so there's nothing wrong. Don't know what their phone is, but mine is an iPhone 6 with the latest OS. So, apparently, they found some phone, somewhere, that did work, and declared it "operating as normal".

Again, they said it didn't stall for them, so "operating as designed".

Here's the kicker. Instead of saying that the car was in their shop for a month+, they wrote up 3 different service tickets stating for each individual issue, all of which took one day to fix....meaning, apparently, it wasn't in their shop since August 4, and retuned to me on Sept 12. But it was in their shop 8/4 one time, 8/21 one time, 9/8 one time.

Oh, and haven't heard back from Cadillac resolution lady who was supposed to call me Friday a.m.

Now, they're just flat out lying. How pathetic Cadillac has become.

Sounds like they got wind of the lemon law buyback and are now trying to cover their tracks. The dealer has documentation that you had a loaner XTS for over a month so not sure why they would go to the trouble of writing up separate tickets to make it appear otherwise.

[Deleted User]

GG, that's a clockspring they were talking about, which allows you to spin the steering wheel and still make all the electrical contacts without binding up a bunch of wires.  It makes sense to replace the clockspring if there's a steering problem.

What about the stalling?    I don't see any attempt to remedy that serious problem.

They're definitely lying about those dates and trying to avoid lemon law. Very sketchy behavior by the dealer.

driver100

graphicguy said:

Get well Mike.

Driver....every time I attend those classic car shows, I always seek out the early-mid 60s T-Birds because they indeed had style, inside and out. Of course, it doesn't take long for me to wander over to the big block cars of the same era, either.

Cadillac update....got a call from the dealer on Saturday that my car was finished. Went to pick it up and they stated that they updated the steering control module needed a new update and the cock spring. Not sure what that is.

As far as CUE being inoperative, they said it works on their phone, so there's nothing wrong. Don't know what their phone is, but mine is an iPhone 6 with the latest OS. So, apparently, they found some phone, somewhere, that did work, and declared it "operating as normal".

Again, they said it didn't stall for them, so "operating as designed".

Here's the kicker. Instead of saying that the car was in their shop for a month+, they wrote up 3 different service tickets stating for each individual issue, all of which took one day to fix....meaning, apparently, it wasn't in their shop since August 4, and retuned to me on Sept 12. But it was in their shop 8/4 one time, 8/21 one time, 9/8 one time.

Oh, and haven't heard back from Cadillac resolution lady who was supposed to call me Friday a.m.

Now, they're just flat out lying. How pathetic Cadillac has become.

Sounds like Cadillac got after the dealer to get the car fixed up, one way or the other.

GG, you didn't say whether you took it back or not, or if you made them clarify on the receipt the amount of time they had the car.

Now it is getting to be fraud. Phony work orders etc.

Don't give in, if they want you to take the car back you have to go for a 100 mile drive with the mechanic....at minimum, but at this point a buy back is only fair.

I like those muscle cars too...but would still love one of those T-Birds.

carnaught

If I was picking up the car after over a month, I'd just write on each service receipt a small note to say the car was brought in on date and picked up on date, and that you had the loaner from those two dates continuously.

We know that cover-ups are often/usually worse than the "crime" itself. It will come back to bite them.

[Deleted User]

GG, the work orders should show the incoming and outgoing mileage on each of those tickets. What did they record? It should show the same incoming mileage, which would prove it was never taken away from the dealership between those falsified service dates.

stever

May want to send the dealer a letter saying the work order is confusing since you dropped the Caddy off on X date and had a loaner while the Caddy sat at the dealer until X date and ask them to explain why the work orders don't match the actual dates they had the car in their shop.

@abacomike, my mom and MIL were both RNs and my MIL was an especially good diagnostician. She'd quiz a new doc on some obscure malady and "fire" 'em if they got the answer wrong. Miss having her around for feedback.

abacomike

@graphicguy:

From what you reported about the 3 separate service work orders (steering, stalling and CUE), it would seem that Cadillac is digging in its heels for the long haul and using strategies to avoid a Buy Back.  Just the mere fact that your CTS was sitting in the dealer's service department for 30 days (+/- a few days) does not mean the car (according to Cadillac) is a lemon.  Usually, a service department work order includes everything to be repaired and serviced on the car when it was brought in.  The fact that they wrote up a separate work order for each issue is quite out of the ordinary.

This is a saga that has gone on now for many months.  IMHO, I believe Cadillac would be smart to offer you a 2016 CTS equipped exactly the way your car is configured.  They know you are not going to accept that offer (you informed them that you are pursuing a Buy Back).  However, it would provide evidence to the BBB and/or the Court of Law where this may end up that they are bending over backward to satisfy you regarding the issues associated with the CTS.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

I didn't rely on anyone else's summary, but the summary is the correct interpretation of the study; so my summary would be the same as I cited.

Yes you did, why didn't you link to the actual study?

I figured some people wouldn't want to read the whole study so a credible and accurate summary was provided.

andres3 said:

Regarding relative speeds; that's all we have in the real world. The real world doesn't have a sample of one vehicle driving on it, so it doesn't make sense to talk about absolute speeds in real world scenarios.

Sorry but we have relative speeds and absolute speeds. if two cars are traveling down the same road in the same direction with car 'A' going 60 MPH and car 'B' doing 65 then the absolute speeds are 60 and 65 respectfully. However the relative speed of car 'B' to car 'A' is 5 mph. Both are relevant and both need to be taken into account.

Explain why bullet trains and air travel which have higher absolute speeds don't result in daily massacres as you would suggest. Is it a vehicle with 4 wheels on the ground are subject to your incorrect theories? Wait, how about 18-wheelers? There are many other factors at play, and absolute speed is 99.9999% irrelevant. Going too fast for conditions (such as your 90 degree turn example) is entirely different than speeding or absolute speed. You can be going too fast for conditions at speeds well below your sacred speed limits; depending on external factors and conditions. It is those external factors and conditions drivers need to be more aware of; rather than the speedometer in their car.

andres3 said:

You cite Adelaide University but their study says "In July 2003, the speed limit on approximately 1,100 km of rural arterial roads in South Australia was reduced from 110 km/h to 100 km/h. A previous CASR study found that the speed limit change was associated with a 1.9 km/h reduction in average speed."

Irrelevant as the study was not addressing that but soething else, which is the relationship between speed and risk.

Not irrelevant because if they are claiming risk was reduced because speed limits were reduced, then the fact that actual speeds were hardly reduced at all by the reduced speed limit is highly relevant. Other factors at play.

andres3 said:

Also, Adelaide study is flawed because of failing on the following:
1) Assuming certain low speed limits are "magical" safe numbers.
2) “Fails to highlight that outcomes only apply to free travelling speed crashes (about 28% of serious crashes)”.
3) “Fails to recognize that a high BAC applies to the whole trip whereas free travel speed applies to only part”.
4) Fails to recognize speeds above or below site-specific mean speeds are dangerous and result in crashes.

So it's flawed because they don't agree with your beliefs that speed has no relation to risk of an accident. OK fine

andres3 said:

Lastly, I think Solomon still applies because there are no "turns" on our freeways. Highways don't always have turns available. So the Triangle Research Group (hard to find any information on them) has done nothing to disprove Solomon in relation to roads that have no turns; such as Interstate Freeways.

The problem with that is that Solomon published his findings in the early 60's (1963 if memory serves) using data collected during the 50's. Now we didn't start building the interstate system until '56 and until then our "freeways" were limited to a few hundred miles of turnpikes on some east coast states. And in the later part of the 50's there really wasn't much completed and open with regards to rural interstates. So Solomon's data was mostly drawn from rural non-interstate roads where you have a lot opportunity to approach turning traffic.

So yeah the Triangle Research Group (as well as others) did do a good job on disproving Solomon.

I don't think so. As you pointed out, other studies have found the curve to be valid even with more modern recent samples being taken. No one has disproved the curve to date for roads that do not have turns (such as Interstate Highways). Just because Solomon didn't use Freeways for their data doesn't mean the curve still doesn't apply. Show me where a freeway study was done that disproves the curve. Turns doesn't hold any water; and even taking slowing/turning vehicles into account; it only reduced accidents by about 40%; hardly 100%.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

qbrozen said:

abacomike said:

Not only that, I would think there aren't too many cars in the U.S. that could be driven at a sustained speed of 95 mph for any extended period of time.  Just my opinion based on an educated guess - the average age of a car in the U.S. is 11 years old.  I would not dream of driving an 11 year old car at 95 mph sustained speed.

Oh, I think you are underestimating what cars are capable of. Back in '92, I drove a '78 Mercury Zephyr with straight 6 and 3-speed auto across 3 [small] states at a sustained 95-100 (rough guess since the speedo numbers only went up to 85 at the 5 o'clock position and I had the needle firmly pegged straight down at 6 o'clock). And, more recently, I did something similar in my wife's minivan driving back to NJ from FL. Granted, it wasn't 11 years old, but it was packed to the gills AND had an additional 2.5-foot high pile of luggage strapped to the roof.

I would say there aren't many cars that CAN'T drive at a sustained 95. Now, whether or not they are properly maintained to keep them safe at that speed is a whole 'nother issue. Not a day goes by that I don't see people driving around with at least 1 dangerously underinflated tire.

I would question the speed rating of the tires first, most passenger vehicles tires are rated for between 105 and 125 MPH IIRC so doing 95 is getting close to their maximum speed. And if those tires have a lot of miles on then I would be cautious about pushing the tires that fast. Another thing is that more manufacturers are coming out with turbo charged sub 2 liter engines to meet CAFE standards. I can't see those cars doing 95 MPH continually without some negative consequences to the engine.

I'm not a tire expert, but I know a little bit on the subject.

I've heard getting a puncture repaired; regardless of the method used generally lowers your speed rating one notch. I've never heard a tires age or wear affects the speed rating unless you are past the 7 year expiration or the wear bars. I'd imagine the speed rating is the minimum rating that tire can safely achieve at 7 years old at the wear bars; usually those things are pretty conservative.

Also, I would think the gearing would have a lot to do with amount of engine wear at 95 MPH. Even so, I just can't see the negative consequences of 95 being much different than 65 these days with modern automobiles. Maybe someone should do a study, but I have a feeling a typical Honda engine might do 300,000 at 95 MPH instead of 305,000 miles at 65 MPH. Again, I think other factors weigh much more heavily, such as type of oil used, frequency of oil changes, ambient temperatures, and amount of start/stops among other things.

andres3

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

In my opinion, if you're driving at 95 mph at the same level of awareness as you do at 65 mph, you are asking for trouble. How so? Consider:

65 mph = 93.5 feet per second

95 mph = 139.3 feet per second

So at 65 mph it will take you approx (including 1 sec reaction time) about 345 feet to stop.

At 95 mph, well over 600 feet.

So if you are operating under the assumption that there's little difference between 65 mph and 95, and you see an object ahead and use your "65 mph time/distance brain", you're screwed.

Totally agree. Those are just "linear" differences based on passage of time. There are some significant physical differences that are even more pronounced. Air drag is over twice (95/65)^2, which means 100% more power required to move the car less than 50% faster. Higher power required means more energy to disperse: heat, friction, etc. 95 mph is definitely much closer to the traction limit of tires, no matter how good the tires are. It means any kind of oil slick on the road, any bump, any loss contact becomes exponentially more dangerous. And so on.

Unlike Snakeweasel I'm not putting as much credence into those studies that say unequivocally and without any qualification that "speed kills". As a former researcher, I can say that the results and their interpretation are often dependent on who pays for the study, plus I also am painfully aware how statistics interpretation can be bent to "support" preconceived thesis. It's often hidden in the choice of tracked variables. However, anybody who casually thinks that 90+ mph is a relaxed speed that anybody can simply leisurely cruise, is deluding themselves. 90 mph is potentially dangerous speed that requires all drivers attention even on a sunny day at a straight road. Even 60 mph may be too much in some conditions (narrow road, traffic, fog, rain, etc.).

Design of roads, traffic, as any other engineering job, is a balancing act of multiple competing interests and sets of constraints. Economic interest of moving goods and people fastest possible way competes with safety, fuel economy, environmental interests, etc. Public and officials love simple answers. I'm inclined to believe that "speed kills" is one of those demanded simple answers. Speeding individual is already unsympathetic figure, so it costs very little political capital to blame all ills of our transportation on those who "don't care about our lives" and portray police and politicians as father figures concerned for nothing but our safety. The truth is always more complicated.

I appreciate your comments and they seem to be more middle of the road than perhaps myself or others on this board. Still, I'm surprised to hear some of the things you wrote being a BMW sport package owner:

1) 95 MPH isn't near the traction limit in a straight line. There's a theory about the Circle of available friction/traction with each of the 4 tires. If the front tires aren't being asked to accelerate or turn, then very little traction is actually being used. It is when you have to accelerate or brake hard that you are using your traction, and therefore the amount of force to make a turn is reduced while taking those actions.

2) Absolutely correct about the "speed kills" crowd designing studies to support their preconceived assumptions. In particular, when the data doesn't support their theories, they resort to tricky word play such as "INCREASED ACCIDENT FREQUENCY" which conveniently can lead one to the conclusion higher speed limits led to more accident "frequency." Why the word "frequency?" Well, it is because when you take into account additional traffic volume (vehicle miles traveled is the best equalizer), it isn't surprising that you had more accidents per hour, never mind if the accident "RATES" went down.

3) Have you driven the I 15 up to Vegas from CA recently? I just came back from the track in Pahrump, NV close to Vegas, and let me tell you there are stretches where 90 MPH seems a bit slow. I think I even saw some big rigs doing 80. Granted, I drive a S4 with tires rated for speeds well in excess of my 155 MPH top speed limiter. I didn't exceed 95 but it was only because it was well over 100 degrees and I wanted to be "nice" to my car (and I want to be able to quickly reach a non-ticket-able speed when the radar detector goes off).

4) Heard a story of a Toyota Tacoma passing a TTRS and GT3 at 125+ MPH (they said he must of been "local" and knew the road well). Which leads me to another point, if you know the road well, I think that allows you to focus on other things more, such as potential unusual hazards that might not always be present. How much safer does that make the Local at XXX MPH vs. a first-time traveler on that same road at 65 MPH?

graphicguy

abacomike said:

@graphicguy:

From what you reported about the 3 separate service work orders (steering, stalling and CUE), it would seem that Cadillac is digging in its heels for the long haul and using strategies to avoid a Buy Back.  Just the mere fact that your CTS was sitting in the dealer's service department for 30 days (+/- a few days) does not mean the car (according to Cadillac) is a lemon.  Usually, a service department work order includes everything to be repaired and serviced on the car when it was brought in.  The fact that they wrote up a separate work order for each issue is quite out of the ordinary.

This is a saga that has gone on now for many months.  IMHO, I believe Cadillac would be smart to offer you a 2016 CTS equipped exactly the way your car is configured.  They know you are not going to accept that offer (you informed them that you are pursuing a Buy Back).  However, it would provide evidence to the BBB and/or the Court of Law where this may end up that they are bending over backward to satisfy you regarding the issues associated with the CTS.

Mike, Driver, ty, Stever, et.al.....thanks for the support.

It would be next to impossible for me to ever trust CAdillac again. This goes far beyond just being inept. This is bordering on fraud, as you pointed out. They could offer me a new CTS-V (which is supposed to be a great car) at this point and I would turn it down.

As long as they continue down this road, I'll continue to double down and dissuade as many as I can to stay away from Cadillac, both personally and with whomever I can reach out to in cyber world.

andres3

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

We bought our 2012 Passat 3 years ago...this is the car that is in Florida.

So this morning I get a long distance call from Mike somebody who says "Did you read over your service policy when you purchased your car?"

I said get lost.....slam down the phone.

I had once a message on my answering machine from "IRS" that they are going to sue me. Of course a robo-voice no details. They did leave a number to call back. I went on the FBI site to report it, thought perhaps if acted quickly they may give them a call and track those guys. These "IRS" calls are reaching epidemic proportions. As expected, no follow up. Your tax money at work.

What a life....having to scam people to make a living.

I equate Chrysler and Cadillac (or any other car maker for that matter) with these scam artists when they don't offer to buyback a true honest "lemon" hassle-free for the buyer. It says either they have too many lemons so that it is normal to resist buying them back, or that it was a scam all along, and it should have been sold with a "may or may not work as intended" sign on it.

driver100

graphicguy said:

abacomike said:

@graphicguy:

From what you reported about the 3 separate service work orders (steering, stalling and CUE), it would seem that Cadillac is digging in its heels for the long haul and using strategies to avoid a Buy Back.  Just the mere fact that your CTS was sitting in the dealer's service department for 30 days (+/- a few days) does not mean the car (according to Cadillac) is a lemon.  Usually, a service department work order includes everything to be repaired and serviced on the car when it was brought in.  The fact that they wrote up a separate work order for each issue is quite out of the ordinary.

This is a saga that has gone on now for many months.  IMHO, I believe Cadillac would be smart to offer you a 2016 CTS equipped exactly the way your car is configured.  They know you are not going to accept that offer (you informed them that you are pursuing a Buy Back).  However, it would provide evidence to the BBB and/or the Court of Law where this may end up that they are bending over backward to satisfy you regarding the issues associated with the CTS.

Mike, Driver, ty, Stever, et.al.....thanks for the support.

It would be next to impossible for me to ever trust CAdillac again. This goes far beyond just being inept. This is bordering on fraud, as you pointed out. They could offer me a new CTS-V (which is supposed to be a great car) at this point and I would turn it down.

As long as they continue down this road, I'll continue to double down and dissuade as many as I can to stay away from Cadillac, both personally and with whomever I can reach out to in cyber world.

GG, I don't know if telling everyone not to buy a certain car bothers the manufacturer that much. I told one friend about my experience with Audi and he already bought his S4 or R4, then he liked it so much he got his wife an A6 and he traded the 4 for an S8.

I don't blame him, the cars he got are automatics so he won't have a clutch problem.

I told a tennis friend about the Audi but one day he drove his wife's car to tennis while his was in the garage. It was a new A7.....she loved it and that's what she wanted.

The car companies don't want to admit they are wrong or that they built a lemon. They would rather fight and lose your business and not really care if you tell others...there's enough people converting from other makes. You are basically collateral damage.

The other thing is your car probably is an exception to the norm. I check on problems with Cadillac CTS's and I can't find a lot. People generally seem satisfied, and they think to themselves I have a guaranty so I am covered, not realizing the guaranty is only as good as the company that issues it.

GG, what's the situation now? Do you have the car or is it in the garage? Are you still using the DTS? So, they have 3 work orders for 3 days work and the car was in the garage for over a month....are they serious?

The Lemon Law people probably asked for an update so they rushed this along to cover their backsides.

Mr_Shiftright

If you are going 125 mph in a vehicle and you hit so much as a fist-sized rock in the road, you are in deep doo-doo.

I wouldn't say "speed kills" but I would say "speed has a better chance of killing you".

andres3 said:

dino001 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

In my opinion, if you're driving at 95 mph at the same level of awareness as you do at 65 mph, you are asking for trouble. How so? Consider:

65 mph = 93.5 feet per second

95 mph = 139.3 feet per second

So at 65 mph it will take you approx (including 1 sec reaction time) about 345 feet to stop.

At 95 mph, well over 600 feet.

So if you are operating under the assumption that there's little difference between 65 mph and 95, and you see an object ahead and use your "65 mph time/distance brain", you're screwed.

Totally agree. Those are just "linear" differences based on passage of time. There are some significant physical differences that are even more pronounced. Air drag is over twice (95/65)^2, which means 100% more power required to move the car less than 50% faster. Higher power required means more energy to disperse: heat, friction, etc. 95 mph is definitely much closer to the traction limit of tires, no matter how good the tires are. It means any kind of oil slick on the road, any bump, any loss contact becomes exponentially more dangerous. And so on.

Unlike Snakeweasel I'm not putting as much credence into those studies that say unequivocally and without any qualification that "speed kills". As a former researcher, I can say that the results and their interpretation are often dependent on who pays for the study, plus I also am painfully aware how statistics interpretation can be bent to "support" preconceived thesis. It's often hidden in the choice of tracked variables. However, anybody who casually thinks that 90+ mph is a relaxed speed that anybody can simply leisurely cruise, is deluding themselves. 90 mph is potentially dangerous speed that requires all drivers attention even on a sunny day at a straight road. Even 60 mph may be too much in some conditions (narrow road, traffic, fog, rain, etc.).

Design of roads, traffic, as any other engineering job, is a balancing act of multiple competing interests and sets of constraints. Economic interest of moving goods and people fastest possible way competes with safety, fuel economy, environmental interests, etc. Public and officials love simple answers. I'm inclined to believe that "speed kills" is one of those demanded simple answers. Speeding individual is already unsympathetic figure, so it costs very little political capital to blame all ills of our transportation on those who "don't care about our lives" and portray police and politicians as father figures concerned for nothing but our safety. The truth is always more complicated.

I appreciate your comments and they seem to be more middle of the road than perhaps myself or others on this board. Still, I'm surprised to hear some of the things you wrote being a BMW sport package owner:

1) 95 MPH isn't near the traction limit in a straight line. There's a theory about the Circle of available friction/traction with each of the 4 tires. If the front tires aren't being asked to accelerate or turn, then very little traction is actually being used. It is when you have to accelerate or brake hard that you are using your traction, and therefore the amount of force to make a turn is reduced while taking those actions.

2) Absolutely correct about the "speed kills" crowd designing studies to support their preconceived assumptions. In particular, when the data doesn't support their theories, they resort to tricky word play such as "INCREASED ACCIDENT FREQUENCY" which conveniently can lead one to the conclusion higher speed limits led to more accident "frequency." Why the word "frequency?" Well, it is because when you take into account additional traffic volume (vehicle miles traveled is the best equalizer), it isn't surprising that you had more accidents per hour, never mind if the accident "RATES" went down.

3) Have you driven the I 15 up to Vegas from CA recently? I just came back from the track in Pahrump, NV close to Vegas, and let me tell you there are stretches where 90 MPH seems a bit slow. I think I even saw some big rigs doing 80. Granted, I drive a S4 with tires rated for speeds well in excess of my 155 MPH top speed limiter. I didn't exceed 95 but it was only because it was well over 100 degrees and I wanted to be "nice" to my car (and I want to be able to quickly reach a non-ticket-able speed when the radar detector goes off).

4) Heard a story of a Toyota Tacoma passing a TTRS and GT3 at 125+ MPH (they said he must of been "local" and knew the road well). Which leads me to another point, if you know the road well, I think that allows you to focus on other things more, such as potential unusual hazards that might not always be present. How much safer does that make the Local at XXX MPH vs. a first-time traveler on that same road at 65 MPH?

dino001

I appreciate your comments and they seem to be more middle of the road than perhaps myself or others on this board. Still, I'm surprised to hear some of the things you wrote being a BMW sport package owner:

What, because all BMW owners, especially those with sports suspensions, should drive like irresponsible maniacs with no regard to their surroundings? Just because you could doesn't mean you should.

1) 95 MPH isn't near the traction limit in a straight line. There's a theory about the Circle of available friction/traction with each of the 4 tires. If the front tires aren't being asked to accelerate or turn, then very little traction is actually being used. It is when you have to accelerate or brake hard that you are using your traction, and therefore the amount of force to make a turn is reduced while taking those actions.

And of course you never came with having to make an emergency maneuver due to somebody else being not as fast, not as acute, as you proclaim to be?

How much safer does that make the Local at XXX MPH vs. a first-time traveler on that same road at 65 MPH?

Don't know. I don't think there is a real answer to that.

All I know, 95 mph is fast and often dangerous. So of course is any other speed, including zero - all depends on the context. Public officials need to make decisions based on something. While I think they often use overly simplistic models and I don't care for general "speed kills", I think there is a real practical limit. If we were to adopt German "no limit" attitude on interstates, we should also adopt their requirements for driver license, vehicle condition, etc. You know well it's really impossible to do (DL in America is a "birth right" of a citizen, not to mention an essential minimum for existence, especially in poor communities outside of largest cities), we have to live with more restrictive limits to accommodate lesser drivers and vehicles, even if some of us could drive faster without imposing noticeably more danger.

oldfarmer50

carnaught said:

If I was picking up the car after over a month, I'd just write on each service receipt a small note to say the car was brought in on date and picked up on date, and that you had the loaner from those two dates continuously.

We know that cover-ups are often/usually worse than the "crime" itself. It will come back to bite them.

The 6 o'clock news would love to hear this one.

andres3

graphicguy said:

Get well Mike.

Driver....every time I attend those classic car shows, I always seek out the early-mid 60s T-Birds because they indeed had style, inside and out. Of course, it doesn't take long for me to wander over to the big block cars of the same era, either.

Cadillac update....got a call from the dealer on Saturday that my car was finished. Went to pick it up and they stated that they updated the steering control module needed a new update and the cock spring. Not sure what that is.

As far as CUE being inoperative, they said it works on their phone, so there's nothing wrong. Don't know what their phone is, but mine is an iPhone 6 with the latest OS. So, apparently, they found some phone, somewhere, that did work, and declared it "operating as normal".

Again, they said it didn't stall for them, so "operating as designed".

Here's the kicker. Instead of saying that the car was in their shop for a month+, they wrote up 3 different service tickets stating for each individual issue, all of which took one day to fix....meaning, apparently, it wasn't in their shop since August 4, and returned to me on Sept 12. But it was in their shop 8/4 one time, 8/21 one time, 9/8 one time.

Oh, and haven't heard back from Cadillac resolution lady who was supposed to call me Friday a.m.

Now, they're just flat out lying. How pathetic Cadillac has become.

Now I'm certain you are dealing with criminals and scam artists at Cadillac. The fact they gave you 3 separate work orders each covering one day of work is deliberate fraud. This isn't a "clerical" error, though I'm sure that is what their defense will be if it comes up. An insurance company once admitted they made an "examiner error,") when confronted with my documented evidence, though that didn't change their position in a financial sense.

roadburner

Back in 1984 I crossed PA at 100 mph on a drizzly Sunday morning- driving my 1973 Bavaria shod with Pirelli P77 tires. My wife never even looked up from the novel she was reading.

isellhondas

driver100 said:

suydam said:

"how about clean and simple from the good old days..."
The current Toyota Corolla is going for that look.
Everything old is new again.

The Impala and the Corolla both look nice....simple is always good.

But, I prefer a bit of pizzaz and once again call on an older T-Bird, like this 64.



Note the gear shift though....really long and on the column.

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I forgot about the back seats...they always did that right.

On some of them, the back seat wrapped around into the side panels. Looked so good!

Those interior shots are of two different T-Birds! The first shot shows that '64 is a real stripper. No A/C or power windows. The shot of the rear seat shows that car has power windows. Then there is another rear seat shot of what I believe is a 1964 Galaxie.

abacomike

@andres3:

Automobiles, for the most part, are not manufactured to safely travel at a sustained speed of 95 mph.  Now remember, I said a "sustained speed", not an occasional 95 mph for an extended period of time,

Automobiles like Ferrari, Bugatti, Lambourghini, Astin-Martin, BMW, Mercedes, Corvette, Porsche, etc., manufacture some or all vehicles that can easily be driven at a sustained speed of 95+ mph.

I have tried to envision myself taking the Mercedes E 400 I own up to 100 mph (I believe it can hit 130+ mph).  Even knowing my car can safely travel that speed for a sustained period of time, I have no urge, yen, desire, need , etc., to "JUST DO OT" because I am quite comfortable at 65-70 mph.  If I was in a hurry to get someplace, I could easily fly there.

When is the speed you are traveling enough speed?  Yes, raising the speed limit on Interstates to 75 mph on stretches of roadways away from heavily populated areas would be acceptable to me and I would probably drive at that speed limit.  The problem comes with older people driving in a lane with a posted 75 mph speed limit at 50 mph.  Also, teenagers driving at high speeds with abandonment would frighten me on an Interstate highway,

To summarize, on an Interstate, when is a speed enough speed?  When is slow speed too slow!  My take on this problem is that it is not solvable!  Before we Americans are ready to handle speed limits of 95 mph, automobiles must be "designed and manufactured" for traveling sustained high speeds.  Additionally, the roads that are expected to handle a 95 mph Speed limit would have to be redesigned and well constructed with few, if any curves and surfaces that can provide for safe high-speed driving.  I pretty happy with 70-80 mph speed limits, but not higher speed limits.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

carnaught said:

If I was picking up the car after over a month, I'd just write on each service receipt a small note to say the car was brought in on date and picked up on date, and that you had the loaner from those two dates continuously.

We know that cover-ups are often/usually worse than the "crime" itself. It will come back to bite them.

The 6 o'clock news would love to hear this one.

Car is sitting in the garage. I did write on each receipt that the dates were wrong. When I picked it up, I asked them to rewrite the service orders to reflect the ACTUAL dates the car was in their service dept. Since it was a Saturday, the only service writer they had in the service dept said he couldn't change them since they were already pre-printed the day before.

Steering worked yesterday and Saturday. The steering wheel isn't centered, though. And, they didn't even try to address the CUE issues, nor the stalling.

I can tolerate many things. Lying ain't one of them. I'll crank up the heat on them.

cdnpinhead

And the beat goes on.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

I can tolerate many things. Lying ain't one of them. I'll crank up the heat on them.

When they towed the car, did you get any kind of paperwork for the tow or the intake? Every time I took my car in for any kind of service, I had a paper with the comment about why the car was there and I signed it even though it was warranty.

It would be interesting to see how it actually has been recorded on the Cadillac record in the computer. They tow the car, then work on it 10 days later once, then work on it 19 days later once, then work on it 28 days later once? Don't make no sense.

berri

Simple physics means the faster you go the greater the impact from any collision and the less reaction time. The transition from a prop to a jet in things like landing is very significant. But having said all of that, I truly believe the biggest danger and cause of accidents is drivers who are dawdlers, particularly poking in the left lane. Distractions are accident causers no matter the vehicle or situation.

As for our poor Cadillac owner, I think the time has come for an attorney.

driver100

graphicguy said:

oldfarmer50 said:

carnaught said:

If I was picking up the car after over a month, I'd just write on each service receipt a small note to say the car was brought in on date and picked up on date, and that you had the loaner from those two dates continuously.

We know that cover-ups are often/usually worse than the "crime" itself. It will come back to bite them.

The 6 o'clock news would love to hear this one.

Car is sitting in the garage. I did write on each receipt that the dates were wrong. When I picked it up, I asked them to rewrite the service orders to reflect the ACTUAL dates the car was in their service dept. Since it was a Saturday, the only service writer they had in the service dept said he couldn't change them since they were already pre-printed the day before.

Steering worked yesterday and Saturday. The steering wheel isn't centered, though. And, they didn't even try to address the CUE issues, nor the stalling.

I can tolerate many things. Lying ain't one of them. I'll crank up the heat on them.

Don't forget...these are the same guys who said there were NO ignition problems with a few million cars. Deny deny, deny.

I don't understand why the service guy can't record (in hand writing) what day the car came in and what day it was picked up.

Steering wheel is off centre! Now that would make a good picture. Still stalling......time to get this car on 60 Minutes!

driver100

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

suydam said:

"how about clean and simple from the good old days..."
The current Toyota Corolla is going for that look.
Everything old is new again.

The Impala and the Corolla both look nice....simple is always good.

But, I prefer a bit of pizzaz and once again call on an older T-Bird, like this 64.



Note the gear shift though....really long and on the column.

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

Those interior shots are of two different T-Birds! The first shot shows that '64 is a real stripper. No A/C or power windows. The shot of the rear seat shows that car has power windows. Then there is another rear seat shot of what I believe is a 1964 Galaxie.

I think the wrap around seats are the real ones. I think the non wrap arounds are part of a makeover and wasn't original. My father had a Galaxie 500 that year and the seats did look like the non wrap around kind. I wanted him to buy that car but he traded it the next year, hated the bucket seats.

[Deleted User]

driver100 said:

Steering wheel is off centre! Now that would make a good picture. Still stalling......time to get this car on 60 Minutes!

"Centre" Hey, hey, hey. None of that Canadian around here

Just giving you a hard time, of course. When do you plan to make the trek out to Florida this year? My wife and daughter are ecstatic about visiting Orlando, Bahamas, and Fort Myers in March, and the trip is providing me some motivation during physical therapy.

imidazol97

tyguy said:

"Centre" Hey, hey, hey. None of that Canadian around here Just giving you a hard time, of course. When do you plan to make the trek out to Florida this year? My wife and daughter are ecstatic about visiting Orlando, Bahamas, and Fort Myers in March, and the trip is providing me some motivation during physical therapy.

How is your range of motion coming and how is your physical therapy working?

abacomike

tyguy said:

Steering wheel is off centre! Now that would make a good picture. Still stalling......time to get this car on 60 Minutes!

"Centre" Hey, hey, hey. None of that Canadian around here Just giving you a hard time, of course. When do you plan to make the trek out to Florida this year? My wife and daughter are ecstatic about visiting Orlando, Bahamas, and Fort Myers in March, and the trip is providing me some motivation during physical therapy.

Hey, tyguy, Ft. Myers is just shy of  2 hour     drive from me.  I love it over there on the west coast of a Florida - great area just north of Naples.

driver100

tyguy said:

driver100 said:

Steering wheel is off centre! Now that would make a good picture. Still stalling......time to get this car on 60 Minutes!

"Centre" Hey, hey, hey. None of that Canadian around here

Just giving you a hard time, of course. When do you plan to make the trek out to Florida this year? My wife and daughter are ecstatic about visiting Orlando, Bahamas, and Fort Myers in March, and the trip is providing me some motivation during physical therapy.

Funny, and I used centre without even thinking about it...but I have been really good about using color and neighbor lately.

Orlando, Bahamas and Fort Myers are good places to go...though I think Bahamas is outside of Florida....got ya back

Florida is kind of rejuvenating and relaxing. Our routine is similar in Florida as it is back home, but, when I am in Florida I feel like I am at camp. I do things on my own schedule. And the sun is bright and the vegetation is bright green and bright.....a real treat in the winter.

We leave from Toronto on Friday November 6th. We time it so we go through Cincinnati on Saturday and through Atlanta on Sunday if all goes well. Those are the two cities you pretty well have to drive through if using I-75. I am looking forward to going, though it has been a good summer up here.

[Deleted User]

imidazol97 said:

How is your range of motion coming and how is your physical therapy working?

Challenging. The extension will be the most difficult and right now I'm at 12 degrees. The flexion will be most painful, by a long margin, due to a weird kneecap alignment issue. I can flex to 110 degrees and even get 360 degrees revolution on my road bike with an extra long crank arm. But, when I return to 90 degrees from a deep knee flex, the kneecap is misaligning, catching, building pressure, and then suddenly releasing. It's incredibly painful. I don't mind all the other pain with the flexion training, but that pressure build up in the cap is absolutely brutal. I'll meet with the surgeon Thursday to pull to staples and x-ray the knee, and the alignment issue will become a topic of conversion. My orthopedic buddy who specializes in soft tissue told me not to panic because the swelling could be pushing the cap in the wrong direction.

[Deleted User]

abacomike said:

Hey, tyguy, Ft. Myers is just shy of  2 hour     drive from me.  I love it over there on the west coast of a Florida - great area just north of Naples.

Hi Mike! If memory serves me well, I think you live just a bit north of Miami, right? We'll be driving from Orlando to Miami to catch a cruise ship.

How's the hospital treating you? I remember hospital nights being long-long productions with people coming and going while they check vitals. Sleep is a joke. I hope you're doing well and will be released to go home soon.

[Deleted User]

driver100 said:

We leave from Toronto on Friday November 6th. We time it so we go through Cincinnati on Saturday and through Atlanta on Sunday if all goes well. Those are the two cities you pretty well have to drive through if using I-75. I am looking forward to going, though it has been a good summer up here.

Nice to hear the summer is treating you well.

We're planning to take a Bahamas cruise mid-vacation before returning to Miami and then driving over to Fort Myers. I have another 30 years before retirement but Florida is definitely on the list of potential candidates. We've tossed around the idea of buying a condo when the next recession hits and property values tank (inevitable as part of the inherent economy swings), and then renting it out until retirement when we refurbish it for our own use, fully paid for by renters by the time we take up residence. It's just a brainstorm idea and nothing serious right now.

abacomike

tyguy said:

Hey, tyguy, Ft. Myers is just shy of  2 hour     drive from me.  I love it over there on the west coast of a Florida - great area just north of Naples.

Hi Mike! If memory serves me well, I think you live just a bit north of Miami, right? We'll be driving from Orlando to Miami to catch a cruise ship. How's the hospital treating you? I remember hospital nights being long-long productions with people coming and going while they check vitals. Sleep is a joke. I hope you're doing well and will be released to go home soon.

I live about 35 miles north Miami.  When you drive from Orlando to Miami using Florida's Turnpike all the way down, you pass my Condominium community on your right.  I live 4 blocks from the Turnpike entrance/exit on Coconut Creek Parkway.

It sounds like you are progressing nicely with your partial knee replacement.  As I shared with you just prior to your  procedure, the physical therapy is the most painful part of your recovery.  Keep plugging away, tyguy.  You are mending nicely from what i can gather from your posts.

I am still at the hospital.  I do not expect to be here by Wedmesday, but who knows.  

stever

It's coming up on two months for my sister-in-law and it sounds like she got over the hump after the scar tissue rolling about ten days ago. When the knee hurts she goes and walks it off.

Sounds like manuals are toast. Greatest anti-theft device you can buy in the US today.

[Deleted User]

abacomike said:

I live about 35 miles north Miami.  When you drive from Orlando to Miami using Florida's Turnpike all the way down, you pass my Condominium community on your right.  I live 4 blocks from the Turnpike entrance/exit on Coconut Creek Parkway.

It sounds like you are progressing nicely with your partial knee replacement.  As I shared with you just prior to your  procedure, the physical therapy is the most painful part of your recovery.  Keep plugging away, tyguy.  You are mending nicely from what i can gather from your posts.

I am still at the hospital.  I do not expect to be here by Wedmesday, but who knows.  

Wow, I didn't realize we'd be passing so close. Well, no pressure whatsoever, but if you're up to an early meal that day I'd love to treat you to a lunch. I believe we arrive at the dock parking around 1:00ish for a 5:00 PM departure. If it's of interest, again, no pressure at all, then we could coordinate as we get closer to the date.

Take care, Mike, and I hope tonight is the last hospital night.