Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

Mr_Shiftright said:

When did golf become a "sport"? Don't you have to make participants breath hard to qualify?

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

I thought hitting a golf ball was tough enough. I got to see lots of beautiful courses but not
much beautiful action on the part of the golf ball.

At least when you hit a golf ball it isn't coming at you at 90+ mph (baseball)....or 140 mph (tennis), it just sits there in front of you.

I agree....I am saving golf until I can't run any more or play pickleball. The only sport part is getting out of the cart and walking up to the ball.....or looking for the ball.

Mr_Shiftright

More like a game of skill and patience. It is nice, though, that it can be played well into old age. But it's more expensive than bocce ball!

ab348

robr2 said:

A few articles I found pretty much note the following are the biggest growth sports:

adventure racing aka Spartan Races, Tough Mudders, et al
MMA
triatholons - on and off road
lacrosse
rugby.

The first and third could probably be done by seniors who have been physically active over the years. I can see the beauty of pickleball - slower game that can be played by those that may not have been physically active over the years.

The things on that list are all just ridiculous. The closest thing to a "sport" there is lacrosse and that is like combining the worst aspects of soccer (constant running around) and hockey (getting hit by projectiles moving at high speed). The rest are painful, dangerous, risky displays for hardcore zealots IMO. While I find it hard to get behind a sport that calls itself "pickleball" (could they have found a worse name?) at least it probably won't put you in the hospital or worse.

I think we need more stuff like badminton or lawn bowling.

stever

Badminton is killer.

graphicguy

Sorry to keep all of you waiting. I was livid last week.

Update.....in fairness, the paperwork for licensing my car from the dealer was reported wrong. Dealer says it was a BMV mistake. BMV says it was a dealer mistake. At this point, I didn't care. They issued a new title with everything correct. I am listed as the sole owner. Somehow, I still feel something is amiss. But, it SEEMS everything with the title is taken care of.

As far as the buyback.....talked to a couple of lawyers (not my personal lawyer, who originally sent Cadillac a letter). These lawyers specialize in Lemon Law. None of them are local to me, though. The nearest one is a couple of hours away in Columbus, OH. He confirmed that in OHIO, the complaint must indeed go through BBB arbitration first, which is scheduled for this Thursday. I can't be there, and neither can my wife. So, I will participate in the hearing over the phone. He also said they'd want to drive the car, which they can't since I'm not going to be there. I guess if the case is deemed worthy of going forward, then they'll schedule time to drive the car.

During all of this, and while I was raising three kinds of holy hell with Cadillac over the dealers they choose to do business with, a customer service manager got involved and asked if they could offer me a 2016 CTS with a higher sticker price than my '14. I called the Lemon Law attorney back and told him of this offer. He said if the BBB arbitraitor does not authorize a buy back (difficult to do without driving the car to see the problems I have been having) and puts me off another couple of months, its tough to see if I would prevail or not. He said he normally negottiates a new car...not a buy back.

That said, Cadillac seems like they don't want to go to arbitration, even if they rarely lose.

Cadillac sent me the differences between the '14 CTS and the '16. I guess they totally redid CUE, put in an 8 speed trans vs the '14s 6 speed. Just about everything is standard with the exception of the upgrade engine (twin turbo V6 vs the turbo 4 and "regular" V6). Nav is now standard, which seems silly given they are now using Apple Car Play and Google Android interfaces. I guess lane keep, lane change, front and rear snesors for parking, etc are now standard, too.

I don't know if they've worn my down or not. I'm wondering if I should just follow someone else's advice here, take the '16, sell it when I get it (and take the "depreciation hit") and move on down the road.

imidazol97

Ironic that GG's post is among those I read. Leaving my wife's hand doctor near noon and the car that passes by as I pull out is a Jaguar with license plates LEMNLAW and on the trunk next to the license is a large square plastic sticker that has ".COM" on it. To the left of the plate was a similar square with "RV."

Lemon law attorney? Near Dayton Mall. I was wondering if this were from the attorney office GG had spoken to about his problem car.

I find there's an ohiolemonlaw.com attorney specializing in RV's near where I saw the car. There are lemon laws specific to RV's?

What could be worse than having a quality car that's a lemon? Having a really expensive RV that's a lemon!

stever

Sounds like the lemon lawyer knows the drill. I'd take the new car and dump it when it's feasible. But I don't have the stomach for all that conflict and my BP is high enough as it is.

robr2

Whether or not they are dangerous, they are all sports. I've played lacrosse and am hoping to take part in an adventure in the spring. Lacrosse taught me how difficult it was to throw, catch, and run with a helmet taking away your peripheral vision while trying a avoid a guy 20 years your junior smacking his stick against your hands. I plan to start with a tough mudder because you can skip any obstacles you want over the 12+ miles. Spartan Races make you do 30 burpees if you want to skip an obstacle but it's only a 3-5 mile course.

We all have our own definition of sports and activities. If you can drink a beer while playing, it's not a sport IMHO.

stickguy

Yeah, at some point, digging in on principle just hurts you. If they will do that, take it and run. Then decide if you want to immediately flip (I assume yes!).

If nothing else, at least you will have a car to use.

stickguy

Though did they actually formally over the swap, or pull the old dealer trick of "if we, will you?"

houdini1

:

PF_Flyer said:

houdini1 said:

You had to be very fast and/or have a great arm. I had neither.

Mine was with the Mets in '72. As they say, speed kills.

Interesting aside on hard things to do in sports. I play golf (12 hdcp) and was also a very good bowler for a long time. We had a family friend who also did both who had multiple 300 games, and he said something that is very true.

Anyone can get lucky and roll a 300. Happens to people who average 150. But if you're an 18 hdcp golfer, you are NEVER going to shoot in the 70's. Just not gonna happen.

That is probably true, but I have also heard that it is possible for a really good amateur golfer to beat a good professional on a given day because in golf there is an element of luck. On the other hand I have heard that a really good amateur tennis player has no chance against a professional tennis player. Having played both games for years, I believe that to be true.

houdini1

stever said:

Badminton is killer.

So is competitive table tennis (ping pong).

suydam

As far as names go, pickleball has nothing on cornhole.

houdini1

graphicguy said:

Sorry to keep all of you waiting. I was livid last week.

Update.....in fairness, the paperwork for licensing my car from the dealer was reported wrong. Dealer says it was a BMV mistake. BMV says it was a dealer mistake. At this point, I didn't care. They issued a new title with everything correct. I am listed as the sole owner. Somehow, I still feel something is amiss. But, it SEEMS everything with the title is taken care of.

As far as the buyback.....talked to a couple of lawyers (not my personal lawyer, who originally sent Cadillac a letter). These lawyers specialize in Lemon Law. None of them are local to me, though. The nearest one is a couple of hours away in Columbus, OH. He confirmed that in OHIO, the complaint must indeed go through BBB arbitration first, which is scheduled for this Thursday. I can't be there, and neither can my wife. So, I will participate in the hearing over the phone. He also said they'd want to drive the car, which they can't since I'm not going to be there. I guess if the case is deemed worthy of going forward, then they'll schedule time to drive the car.

During all of this, and while I was raising three kinds of holy hell with Cadillac over the dealers they choose to do business with, a customer service manager got involved and asked if they could offer me a 2016 CTS with a higher sticker price than my '14. I called the Lemon Law attorney back and told him of this offer. He said if the BBB arbitraitor does not authorize a buy back (difficult to do without driving the car to see the problems I have been having) and puts me off another couple of months, its tough to see if I would prevail or not. He said he normally negottiates a new car...not a buy back.

That said, Cadillac seems like they don't want to go to arbitration, even if they rarely lose.

Cadillac sent me the differences between the '14 CTS and the '16. I guess they totally redid CUE, put in an 8 speed trans vs the '14s 6 speed. Just about everything is standard with the exception of the upgrade engine (twin turbo V6 vs the turbo 4 and "regular" V6). Nav is now standard, which seems silly given they are now using Apple Car Play and Google Android interfaces. I guess lane keep, lane change, front and rear snesors for parking, etc are now standard, too.

I don't know if they've worn my down or not. I'm wondering if I should just follow someone else's advice here, take the '16, sell it when I get it (and take the "depreciation hit") and move on down the road.

I would take the '16, and make sure it had close to zero miles so you don't get another "hot potato". And before you agree, make sure it is a bonafide offer.

thebean

stickguy said:

Yeah, at some point, digging in on principle just hurts you. If they will do that, take it and run. Then decide if you want to immediately flip (I assume yes!). If nothing else, at least you will have a car to use.

+1. It may take another year to get them to do a buyback.  Mental health is worth the difference of $, IMHO.

henryn

houdini1 said:

graphicguy said:

Sorry to keep all of you waiting. I was livid last week.

Update.....in fairness, the paperwork for licensing my car from the dealer was reported wrong. Dealer says it was a BMV mistake. BMV says it was a dealer mistake. At this point, I didn't care. They issued a new title with everything correct. I am listed as the sole owner. Somehow, I still feel something is amiss. But, it SEEMS everything with the title is taken care of.

As far as the buyback.....talked to a couple of lawyers (not my personal lawyer, who originally sent Cadillac a letter). These lawyers specialize in Lemon Law. None of them are local to me, though. The nearest one is a couple of hours away in Columbus, OH. He confirmed that in OHIO, the complaint must indeed go through BBB arbitration first, which is scheduled for this Thursday. I can't be there, and neither can my wife. So, I will participate in the hearing over the phone. He also said they'd want to drive the car, which they can't since I'm not going to be there. I guess if the case is deemed worthy of going forward, then they'll schedule time to drive the car.

During all of this, and while I was raising three kinds of holy hell with Cadillac over the dealers they choose to do business with, a customer service manager got involved and asked if they could offer me a 2016 CTS with a higher sticker price than my '14. I called the Lemon Law attorney back and told him of this offer. He said if the BBB arbitraitor does not authorize a buy back (difficult to do without driving the car to see the problems I have been having) and puts me off another couple of months, its tough to see if I would prevail or not. He said he normally negottiates a new car...not a buy back.

That said, Cadillac seems like they don't want to go to arbitration, even if they rarely lose.

Cadillac sent me the differences between the '14 CTS and the '16. I guess they totally redid CUE, put in an 8 speed trans vs the '14s 6 speed. Just about everything is standard with the exception of the upgrade engine (twin turbo V6 vs the turbo 4 and "regular" V6). Nav is now standard, which seems silly given they are now using Apple Car Play and Google Android interfaces. I guess lane keep, lane change, front and rear snesors for parking, etc are now standard, too.

I don't know if they've worn my down or not. I'm wondering if I should just follow someone else's advice here, take the '16, sell it when I get it (and take the "depreciation hit") and move on down the road.

I would take the '16, and make sure it had close to zero miles so you don't get another "hot potato". And before you agree, make sure it is a bonafide offer.

+1

I agree, time to end this. This kind of thing just ruins your digestion, raises your blood pressure, and in general makes it hard to enjoy life. End it and walk away, close this chapter and start concentrating on the good things in your life once again.

qbrozen

i think taking the '16 and trading it might make sense. Unless they'll give you a V sport.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

The things on that list are all just ridiculous. The closest thing to a "sport" there is lacrosse and that is like combining the worst aspects of soccer (constant running around) and hockey (getting hit by projectiles moving at high speed). The rest are painful, dangerous, risky displays for hardcore zealots IMO.

It depends on what you are trying to do. I train in MMA. It is a great workout while actually learning things, which is important to me because I get bored very quickly performing pointless exercise. The learning aspect keeps me coming back. I have no illusions, however, of ever competing. I'm way too old, nonviolent, and noncompetitive. And that is the case with everyone I train with. We even had a couple in their late 60s join us a couple of nights ago. I guess the question is whether it is still a "sport" if you don't compete. I would argue that it is lest you exclude individual runners, hunters, fisherman, etc.

murphydog

Cadillac

GG - I wish you the best of luck. I had a co-worker lemon law her Cadillac. Much more open and shut that yours, she had a first year SRX with all kinds of issues. Motor finally spilled its guts on the interstate while climbing a mountain pass. She got a 2 year newer model and while pleased with it still plans to sell it when the warranty is up.

28firefighter

GG - I think you need to take this offer, if they're serious. At some point, your time and sanity costs will outweigh any potential resolution. I actually think you long passed that point, but understand why you have dug in.

Take the new '16, and flip it immediately.

ab348

@graphicguy , take the '16, advertise it for sale with the line, "won in contest!". It would be mostly true...

graphicguy

stickguy said:

Though did they actually formally over the swap, or pull the old dealer trick of "if we, will you?"

No...this came directly from Cadillac customer service.

tifighter

suydam said:

As far as names go, pickleball has nothing on cornhole.

Pickleball is really fun. If none of you have tried it, you really should...

coldinohio

breezewood --terrible boondoggle

i do a scenic route to get to interstate 68 in WVA-- better use of my time than sitting on off-ramp and fun drive on twisties

driver100

thebean said:

stickguy said:

Yeah, at some point, digging in on principle just hurts you. If they will do that, take it and run. Then decide if you want to immediately flip (I assume yes!).

If nothing else, at least you will have a car to use.

+1. It may take another year to get them to do a buyback.  Mental health is worth the difference of $, IMHO.

GG, this is a really good point.

Also, a 2016 is worth an extra $12 to $14K at least. I would drive it for awhile and see if you like it, it may be fine and you may love it as ab does his Caddie. If you don't like it you could trade and you would be pretty close in $s.

Good point was that it would have zero miles on it....not be a demo or something. And, most important:
THE WARRANTY BEGINS WHEN YOU PICK UP THE CAR. I have seen cases where this was part of your original warranty, so they consider this the fix, and you just have the remaining time on the original.

Then carve into the instrument panel on the one you have that it "is a Lemon", so no one else will get stuck with it......but, someone will, and that will be the last Cadillac the will buy.

driver100

tifighter said:

suydam said:

As far as names go, pickleball has nothing on cornhole.

Pickleball is really fun. If none of you have tried it, you really should...

People love it! And I am surprised some of the people who play don't seem to be athletic at all, but they can still get pretty good at it. It is becoming THE game for todays seniors.

houdini1

Why don't they call it paddle ball?

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

At least when you hit a golf ball it isn't coming at you at 90+ mph (baseball)....or 140 mph (tennis), it just sits there in front of you.

And sometimes after the swing it was still just sitting there.

That's OK as long as the club isn't going where the ball was supposed to go.

snakeweasel

PF_Flyer said:

To get better at golf, you have to work at it, and knowing what you cannot do is more important than what you can do.
A bit much to ask of the selfie generation

Plus golf is very tricky to get good at and it takes a lot of practice and it can get pricey to practice the art.

snakeweasel

stever said:

I think I'd like pickleball. Golf takes way too much time.

And since when did pole vaulting become mainstream?

Since the inmates at the State Pen wanted to take it up.

robr2

houdini1 said:

Why don't they call it paddle ball?

Because there is already a sport called paddle ball. It's played on a squash or racquetball court or one a single wall. Seniors would get killed playing the four wall version.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Snake, PA has the same problem at the other end of state. Turnpike and I95 cross. Yet they didn't bother to put and interchange there. Boggles the mind. Same deal. Have to exit, take some local roads, and find the other highway.

Here in IL we had the same problem with where I-294 crosses I-57, there was no exchange there. Now to be fair all you had to do was travel down I-294 a couple of miles to I-80 and the go down I-80 a few miles to I-57 and there were signs directing you. They recently put in an interchange there.

Then there is where I-90 and I-94 merge heading into the city of Chicago, if you're inbound on either one and want to that the other outbound at the merge you have to get off the interstate and make your way to the outbound interstate. Not sure if they did anything about that as I haven't been there in more than 15 years.

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

I don't know if they've worn my down or not. I'm wondering if I should just follow someone else's advice here, take the '16, sell it when I get it (and take the "depreciation hit") and move on down the road.

If I were you I would take the replacement car as long as it is new and not used or a dealer demo. Then I would at least try it out for a week or so before making any decisions on getting rid of it, it might surprise you, if not then sell it.

But that's just me.

ab348

When I first heard of a sport called "pickleball" I assumed it was played with a rubbery ball shaped like a pickle that took eccentric bounces.

PF_Flyer

I'm not sure why golf has evolved to take so much time. Took the son-in-law out for his first time, with all the first timer jitters, paired up with a couple of PSU team members to add a little intimidation, and we still finished in 3 hours. If i can get a clear path in front of me, I can play 18 in around 2 hours carrying my bag.

But the rest of the world seems to think 5 hours is the norm. Sad

My latest auto adventure is tracking down wiper blades for our 2014 Versa Note. 28" driver's side wasn't too hard. The 12" passenger side is like the Holy Grail quest

OEM 12" is just under $40...ummmm...not today

driver100

houdini1 said:

Why don't they call it paddle ball?

There is a similar game called paddle tennis or paddle ball. Also played on a smaller tennis court, with paddles, played with a tennis ball that has lost most of it's bounce. Pickleball seems to require less running, and needs less space. In Florida it is almost always played outdoors....up here in Canada it is played indoors 90% of the time. It is played on a court about the size of a volley ball court, so those courts can easily and be temporarily changed from one to the other.

snakeweasel

qbrozen said:

It depends on what you are trying to do. I train in MMA. It is a great workout while actually learning things, which is important to me because I get bored very quickly performing pointless exercise. The learning aspect keeps me coming back. I have no illusions, however, of ever competing. I'm way too old, nonviolent, and noncompetitive. And that is the case with everyone I train with. We even had a couple in their late 60s join us a couple of nights ago. I guess the question is whether it is still a "sport" if you don't compete. I would argue that it is lest you exclude individual runners, hunters, fisherman, etc.

May I ask is it a MMA class that is taught by actual trainers that know what they are doing or is it by physical trainers that got a certification? The reason I ask is that I am big in bicycling and I do training on a stationary bike when I cannot be outside. I would say that 99% of spin instructors don't really know what they are doing. There are times I really cringe when I see what they do.

snakeweasel

coldinohio said:

breezewood --terrible boondoggle

i do a scenic route to get to interstate 68 in WVA-- better use of my time than sitting on off-ramp and fun drive on twisties

Unfortunately going to see the kids in the DC area taking I-68 would take me at least an hour longer than going through Breezytown.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

i think taking the '16 and trading it might make sense. Unless they'll give you a V sport.

Agreed; take it and flip it. No point in prolonging the agony- even if it's perfect you probably wouldn't enjoy driving another Caddy after this debacle.

qbrozen

snakeweasel said:

May I ask is it a MMA class that is taught by actual trainers that know what they are doing or is it by physical trainers that got a certification? The reason I ask is that I am big in bicycling and I do training on a stationary bike when I cannot be outside. I would say that 99% of spin instructors don't really know what they are doing. There are times I really cringe when I see what they do.

Yes, you may ask. I work with 4 different instructors. One is an ex-pro, trains some current pros, has trained olympians, and trained in 9 different styles in 7 countries. He is the real deal,and that is the only one I would classify as an "MMA class." Another (the owner of our dojo) is a 5th-degree Shotokan black belt and certified in Krav Maga. He has also competed in a number of karate and kickboxing tournaments around the country. The other 2 lesser instructors are 2nd- and 3rd-degree Shotokan black belts. With the latter 2, I sometimes feel like they learn as much from me as I do them, but its still a good workout.

And I know what you mean. Luckily, we ran into the right people early on and learned very quickly to avoid the "cardio kickboxing" classes that permeate most typical gyms. If it is something that interests you (or anyone else reading), the actual UFC-branded gyms typically employ trainers who compete or are working toward competing. I was a member there for a little while because we followed the first instructor in my paragraph above there, but he didn't stick around and went private, so we left as well. It was quite far from home for us anyway. The other guys there were OK, just not up to his level.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

snakeweasel said:

PF_Flyer said:

With the discount versus cash tolls, the EZ-Pass fees are easily covered on the first trip we use it each year. The PA Turnpike is going to be 100% electronic by 2018 and there's already a stretch near Philly with no cash tolls. If you don't have an EZ-Pass, they scan your plates and send you the bill.

I just wish PA would build a proper interchange in Breezeway, getting off the Turnpike and continuing along I-70 should NOT require you to exit and go through a town with two stop lights to continue on I-70.

Florida's Turnpike System is already all all electronic except for major junctions such as near Miami Airport and North Broward County in Pompano Beach.  Every exit on the turnpike is electronic - SunPass or license plate.

The problem is that SunPass won't work with either EZPass or IPass so when my sister comes up here she has to pay cash at the cash price.

Mr_Shiftright

Did a critter nibble away some of the wiper blade? I think the passenger side is 14" isn't it?

SEE HERE

PF_Flyer said:

I'm not sure why golf has evolved to take so much time. Took the son-in-law out for his first time, with all the first timer jitters, paired up with a couple of PSU team members to add a little intimidation, and we still finished in 3 hours. If i can get a clear path in front of me, I can play 18 in around 2 hours carrying my bag.

But the rest of the world seems to think 5 hours is the norm. Sad

My latest auto adventure is tracking down wiper blades for our 2014 Versa Note. 28" driver's side wasn't too hard. The 12" passenger side is like the Holy Grail quest

OEM 12" is just under $40...ummmm...not today

PF_Flyer

Nope, it's 12... and the Trico "Exact Fit" is an 11... you can see it if you look carefully

robr2

snakeweasel said:

The problem is that SunPass won't work with either EZPass or IPass so when my sister comes up here she has to pay cash at the cash price.

By mid 2016, all the automated toll collection systems are supposed to be inter-operable. We will see if it actually happens.

robr2

RE MMA - the gyms in my area that offer MMA training pretty much do nothing other than boxing and martial arts which of course is the basis of MMA.

nyccarguy

@graphicguy - I know you are willing to fight the fight, but in the end it just isn't worth it. You seem to be getting more frustrated & more upset. Take the 2016. Find what you really want, make your skinny deal and get what you can for the new Caddy.

[Deleted User]

GG, to add one more opinion to the discussion, I'm with Bradd and the others, take the 2016 and move on. If you're concerned with punishing Cadillac, the experience has certainly cost them in the form of parts, labor, and now taking possession of a faulty car and providing a new car two years newer in return. This won't be cheap for them. Sure, it could possibly be a bit more costly if you're willing to invest in an attorney and take a chance that you'll win in the end. Hardly seems worth it, though. Only you can determine the cost/benefit that's worth it for you, but if you want opinions, it seems the majority think it's best to conclude the ordeal now. I wish you the best.

stickguy

unless my brain is fuzzy, Caddy probably comes out about the same with a replacement or the buyback. they are losing what they would get from selling the 2016 (offset by what they get sending the lemon through auction!). Probably actually costs them less, but can't be that significant a difference to them. Really does sound that they are just obsessed with never admitting to a buyback.

plus of course, the 2014 will not be branded. And you know darned well that baby is getting resold. though you would like to think they send it back to HQ to get torn down to see what was causing the problems.

abacomike

@graphicguy:

It's not that you feel you've been worn down by GM/Cadillac/Service/Dealerships, it's gotten to the point where you are just FED UP!  Take a new 2016 CTS with the high output engine just like you originally bought.  But I would not sell it right away.

Once it's titled, it becomes a used car and is worth the same as a 2016 with 3000 or 4000 miles on it.  Drive the car for a few months.  By then, you might even enjoy the car.  I am sure Cadillac has "fixed" the problem(s) you had with yours in the 2016 model.  You loved the car until the problems arose.

I am merely advising you - I would do exactly what I am recommending here.  If after 2-3 months you don't want or like the car, for whatever reason(s), go shopping until you find what you'd like to drive and trade the 2016 CTS.

We are your friends and just want you to be happy - our advice is from the heart!  But whatever you decide, I just wish you the best!  

oldfarmer50

I say take the 2016, light it on fire on the lawn of GM corporate HQs and put the video on UTube. The bad publicity will cost Caddy a hundred times more than any court judgement. Then give interviews to any media outlet that will listen.

I understand your outrage completely.