Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

abacomike

stever said:

The four Koch brothers don't even get along with each other and you expect the public to like 'em all? Sorry, smells "political" to me. Oh to be in Canada where the national elections last maybe 6 weeks....

No, I don't expect the public, or even me, to "like" the Koch brothers any more than George Soros or the other millionaires or billionaires that try to "buy" candidates or votes.  Money, unfortunately, dictates who will be elected, when they will be elected, and how they will be elected.  There is something wrong when a democracy depends on money to oil its machines.

As far as whether the Koch brothers get along with each other or not, what they and others like them do to spread their political agendas is criminal - but they won't serve time in the pokey for these crimes against society.

ab348

stever said:

Oh to be in Canada where the national elections last maybe 6 weeks....

This one was 10 or 11 weeks and it was interminable.

stever

Poor guy LOL.

We're lucky if the honeymoon period after Election Day lasts 10 or 11 days before the drums start beating.

dino001

abacomike said:

;The most interesting part of the interview is when he was asked if he was a Libertarian - his response was that he is a "classical" liberal!  I almost fell out of my recliner!

Americans have had long lasting habit of taking English words, changing their meaning and then expecting rest of the world follow. Word "liberal" is a prime example. In Europe it meant "loving liberty" for 200 years. It still does. Their political stance is to advocate both social and economic liberties, which put them in opposition to both traditional left and right wing parties. They would forge some tactical alliances with either side, depending on the country and situation.

Meanwhile in 50s American communists were in need for a new word, as that one was simply banned and unpallettable for people here, so they called themselves socialists. This of course pushed proper socialists and socialdemocrats (advocates for left-wing social reforms in non-violent and democratic process) to look for a new word and they found liberal, as somehow it was unoccupied in America. As those "classic liberal" ideas gathered popularity, they were in need for a word, as theirs was hijacked. Hence the libertarian. The translations across the Ocean are real headache for those who don't follow those meanders.

abacomike

Dino, excellent political science presentation.  I'm impressed with your knowledge and expertise.

snakeweasel

tyguy said:

The auto industry is on the cusp of a massive revolution in propulsion that will have dramatic impacts on many aspects of our society including jobs, taxation, energy production and usage, and more.

Internal combustion engines are being replaced by alternatives with battery/electric the current leader but other technologies on the horizon, too. I have no doubt we'll pump every last drop of oil out of the ground, but I hope we'll put it to better use than burning it up. Toyota has placed a date on when they'll stop relying on ICE as they move to hydrogen, and after the recent scandal VW is now stating electric is their future. BMW has stated all their drive trains will eventually involve or move to electric.

Our roads are primarily paid for by taxation of gasoline and diesel. If that revenue dries up, how do you think we should pay for new road construction and maintenance in the future? I'd love to learn some new perspectives from you. What do you think is fair?

What is fair totally depends on who ox is being gored.

As for the ICE, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. It's to convenient at this time.

Electric is going to move slowly and surely forward.

Hydrogen is not viable as it is more a storage medium for energy not an energy source.

I think that CNG has a good future.

I think that the solution is a combination of things, not just one.

To replace gas taxes I think we are heading towards a per mile road use tax (sort of like a toll).

snakeweasel

stever said:

tyguy said:

Our roads are primarily paid for by taxation of gasoline and diesel. If that revenue dries up, how do you think we should pay for new road construction and maintenance in the future? I'd love to learn some new perspectives from you. What do you think is fair?

Don't forget all those people who will Uber up an autonomous car to get around in. They won't pay license and registration fees, much less gas taxes.

There are those who are predicting that with self driving cars right around the corner we will slowly get to the point where privately owned cars will all but disappear and we will be using some sort of ride sharing service where the self driving car picks you up on demand. I can see that happening.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

Making NJ "look" clean is one thing - but "smelling" clean is quite a different story.

When I was in Boot Camp at Cape May they told us we couldn't swat the mosquitoes as it was the New Jersey state bird.

stever

Check out the Tesla download yesterday.

A patch to put the Model S into self-driving mode is just a download away. (Computer World)

It's not full blown but looks like a pretty big step in that direction, at least for highway travel.

snakeweasel

Got a letter from Hyundai regarding the Sonata recall. It basically stated what the issue was and what it could do. It went on to say that if the car was seriously affected that it would make a certain type of knocking sound that increased as the RPM's increased. If we were experiencing this we were to get the car to a Hyundai service department ASAP, if not we will be hearing shortly from Hyundai on their fix.

snakeweasel

I was just thinking about the 97% of Subaru's made in the last 10 years are still on the road thing. Hasn't Subaru experienced a rather large increase in sales every year for the last 5 years or so? IIRC their sales so far for this year is almost double what it was 10 years ago. This would mean that the vast majority of Subaru's made in the last 10 years would be 5 years old or less. This would make the 97% statistic a bit misleading. Any thoughts?

abacomike

stever said:

Check out the Tesla download yesterday. A patch to put the Model S into self-driving mode is just a download away. (Computer World) It's not full blown but looks like a pretty big step in that direction, at least for highway travel.

When I engage my adaptive cruise control, it also activates adaptive steering as well.  In order for the car to steer itself, there must be lane markings/stripes on both sides of the lane.  The steering wheel moves by itself if the car gets too close to a lane marker.  It gently steers toward the center of the lane.  But if you take your hands off the steering wheel, a sensor knows the driver's hands are not on the steering wheel and alerts the driver with a red animated steering wheel with hands off and trmporarily disengages adaptive steering until the hands are replaced on the steering wheel.

It's only a matter of time brfore driving becomes totally automated.  If I approach a car or barrier to quickly and the computer senses an imminent collision, an audible alert is sounded and the brakes are applied with sufficient force to avoid the collision.

On my way back from northern Florida last week, I drove straight through without s stop.  After 3 hours, I got an animated and audible alert (attention assist) to pull off the road and take a rest.  There's an amazing amount of relevant technologies on these cars.  The car's cameras pick up pedestrians walking off a curb and entering the car's path - the car swerves to avoid the pedestrian.  Truly amazing safety technology.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

abacomike said:

Toll roads are probably the best roads in our State.  The Florida Turnpike System is so superior to our interstates because tolls pay for the repairs and repaving projects.

When I went to Ponte Vedra last week, I purposely took the Turnpike to Ft. Pierce before going over to I-95.  The condition of I-95 is pathetic.  

Another option for raising funds to repair roads is to make all Interstates Toll Roads. We have no toll booths - everything is either electronic/digital or a camera picks up the license plate and bills the registered owner.  I paid $12.90 round trip on the Turnpike - 600+ miles.

Obviously it would require installation of Pass Readers and cameras as well as computerizing toll collections, but it would eliminate increases in gasoline taxes and would not require reading odometers.  

Just have the toll road authorities take over all interstates.  

Not it sure it would pass congress, but definitely worth some investigation.

A national turnpike authority? Forget congress - the states that run their own road systems would never relinquish control. 

The bonds that built the NYS Thruway were paid off in 1996 but the tolls are still there. It was too good of a money generator and patronage pit that the state gave up hundreds of millions in federal highway funds to keep it in their own greedy little hands.

oldfarmer50

snakeweasel said:

tyguy said:

The auto industry is on the cusp of a massive revolution in propulsion that will have dramatic impacts on many aspects of our society including jobs, taxation, energy production and usage, and more.

Internal combustion engines are being replaced by alternatives with battery/electric the current leader but other technologies on the horizon, too. I have no doubt we'll pump every last drop of oil out of the ground, but I hope we'll put it to better use than burning it up. Toyota has placed a date on when they'll stop relying on ICE as they move to hydrogen, and after the recent scandal VW is now stating electric is their future. BMW has stated all their drive trains will eventually involve or move to electric.

Our roads are primarily paid for by taxation of gasoline and diesel. If that revenue dries up, how do you think we should pay for new road construction and maintenance in the future? I'd love to learn some new perspectives from you. What do you think is fair?

What is fair totally depends on who ox is being gored.

As for the ICE, it's not going anywhere anytime soon. It's to convenient at this time.

Electric is going to move slowly and surely forward.

Hydrogen is not viable as it is more a storage medium for energy not an energy source.

I think that CNG has a good future.

I think that the solution is a combination of things, not just one.

To replace gas taxes I think we are heading towards a per mile road use tax (sort of like a toll).

I wouldn't be adverse to a milage tax (not in addition to the existing tax though) but I object to the proposal that gps trackers be installed in every car (at our expense) to measure it.

PF_Flyer

If not gps trackers, how about something that will take a bit of infrastructure like giving everyone an EZ-Pass transponder and erecting "toll booths" like the express EZ-Pass lanes that exist now? When you drive under them, kaching, they take your quarter.

Start with the heaviest traveled, most abused roads. Keep the money generated by those roads for the upkeep of those roads and not use it for anything else. I've thought about this a lot for some of our local roads and just a handfull of "collection points" would certainly supplement road funds.

The tricks are getting the government to give something away (the transponders), keeping the money where it belongs (I may NOT be onto something here), and preventing the creation of "toll blockers" for drivers to get around things. (OK, I'm definitely NOT onto something here)

sb55

snakeweasel said:

I was just thinking about the 97% of Subaru's made in the last 10 years are still on the road thing. Hasn't Subaru experienced a rather large increase in sales every year for the last 5 years or so? IIRC their sales so far for this year is almost double what it was 10 years ago. This would mean that the vast majority of Subaru's made in the last 10 years would be 5 years old or less. This would make the 97% statistic a bit misleading. Any thoughts?

I have a 2006 Subaru Legacy Wagon with 100K miles, so it's 10 years old now. I did just dump $2500.00 into it for head gaskets and full brake job, though At least now I can pass it on to my daughter with confidence.

driver100

ab348 said:

Well, you can't tax all electricity to pay for the roads used by electric cars.

I tend to fall in @cdnpinhead 's school of thought. We are having a federal election here in Canada on Monday and the likely winner is a Gen-X who two main promises are to legalize marijuana and run huge deficits to pay for all sorts of projects, both necessary and otherwise. I am throwing up my hands and saying to the next generation, "he's yours, you deal with the consequences".

Ab....I think exactly like you do. The guy who worked for 1 year of his life as a drama teacher will win because he is making the most promises. My grandchildren (about 20) will vote for him because he is going to give them the most.......I say, guess who is going to pay for all the freebies?

My thoughts are like yours, let the good times roll for 5 years, spend like drunken sailors (or potheads), and I won't have to deal with it.

driver100

stever said:

The four Koch brothers don't even get along with each other and you expect the public to like 'em all?

Sorry, smells "political" to me.

Oh to be in Canada where the national elections last maybe 6 weeks....

Yeh, you guys have one election and the next one starts almost immediately right after that one....it's almost continuous.

Ours are normally 6 weeks, this one was about double which is very unusual, (it was done for political reasons ha ha), and the long campaign backfired on the ruling party.

driver100

abacomike said:

Dino, excellent political science presentation.  I'm impressed with your knowledge and expertise.

Me too!

Enjoyed the definitions.

driver100

stever said:

Check out the Tesla download yesterday.

A patch to put the Model S into self-driving mode is just a download away. (Computer World)

It's not full blown but looks like a pretty big step in that direction, at least for highway travel.

I hope the self driving cars are available the day the doctor says I can't drive any more.

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

Well, you can't tax all electricity to pay for the roads used by electric cars.

I tend to fall in @cdnpinhead 's school of thought. We are having a federal election here in Canada on Monday and the likely winner is a Gen-X who two main promises are to legalize marijuana and run huge deficits to pay for all sorts of projects, both necessary and otherwise. I am throwing up my hands and saying to the next generation, "he's yours, you deal with the consequences".

Ab....I think exactly like you do. The guy who worked for 1 year of his life as a drama teacher will win because he is making the most promises. My grandchildren (about 20) will vote for him because he is going to give them the most.......I say, guess who is going to pay for all the freebies?

My thoughts are like yours, let the good times roll for 5 years, spend like drunken sailors (or potheads), and I won't have to deal with it.

As a former drunken sailor I resemble that remark.

Anyway I wouldn't worry about it as the apocalypse is upon us. You want proof? here it is:

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/10/15/chicago-cubs-favored-world-series-mlb-postseason-betting

henryn

PF_Flyer said:

If not gps trackers, how about something that will take a bit of infrastructure like giving everyone an EZ-Pass transponder and erecting "toll booths" like the express EZ-Pass lanes that exist now? When you drive under them, kaching, they take your quarter.

Start with the heaviest traveled, most abused roads. Keep the money generated by those roads for the upkeep of those roads and not use it for anything else. I've thought about this a lot for some of our local roads and just a handfull of "collection points" would certainly supplement road funds.

The tricks are getting the government to give something away (the transponders), keeping the money where it belongs (I may NOT be onto something here), and preventing the creation of "toll blockers" for drivers to get around things. (OK, I'm definitely NOT onto something here)

They don't give you license plates, you have to buy them. They don't give you liability insurance, but you have to have it in order to take your car on the road (legally). The days of mandatory EZ-Pass are probably not far off, in my opinion. Here in the Houston area, trying to get around town without one is nigh on to impossible already.

As a certified, dues paying member of CCBA (Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous), the very first thing I do after buying a new car or truck is to get an EZ-Pass tag. The dealer tags are good for 2 months, the insurance company gives me 14 days to notify them about adding the new car to my insurance plan. But HCTRA (Harris County Toll Road Authority) has no leniency, no grace period, zip, zilch, nada, none.

PF_Flyer

With the discount versus cash tolls, the EZ-Pass fees are easily covered on the first trip we use it each year. The PA Turnpike is going to be 100% electronic by 2018 and there's already a stretch near Philly with no cash tolls. If you don't have an EZ-Pass, they scan your plates and send you the bill.

houdini1

abacomike said:

stever said:

The four Koch brothers don't even get along with each other and you expect the public to like 'em all?

Sorry, smells "political" to me.

Oh to be in Canada where the national elections last maybe 6 weeks....

No, I don't expect the public, or even me, to "like" the Koch brothers any more than George Soros or the other millionaires or billionaires that try to "buy" candidates or votes.  Money, unfortunately, dictates who will be elected, when they will be elected, and how they will be elected.  There is something wrong when a democracy depends on money to oil its machines.

As far as whether the Koch brothers get along with each other or not, what they and others like them do to spread their political agendas is criminal - but they won't serve time in the pokey for these crimes against society.

All the more reason to vote for someone who only accepts contributions from small individual contributors.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

The bonds that built the NYS Thruway were paid off in 1996 but the tolls are still there. It was too good of a money generator and patronage pit that the state gave up hundreds of millions in federal highway funds to keep it in their own greedy little hands.

Well, that may be part of it, but consider this.

In Halifax we have two long suspension bridges over the harbor. Both were built using bond financing, which has since been paid off. But they are tolled at $1 per crossing. generating about $30 million a year. That pays for maintenance and repair, patrol and safety, and capital improvements. Right now they are replacing the deck on the oldest (60 years) bridge, which is going to cost several hundred million, which is borrowed money. I don't have a problem with the toll. The operation seems reasonably well-run, and I don't see a whole lot of obvious waste except for an excess of retired military types wandering around the toll booths not doing much, and an occasional misguided and unnecessary speed trap campaign. You have to maintain these things and why not charge those who use it?

houdini1

abacomike said:

My following post is NOT POLITICAL.  

Fox News Channel just devoted 1/2 hour interviewing Charles Koch (one of the most frequently maligned billionaires in this country along with his brother David), his very first network interview.  The most interesting part of the interview is when he was asked if he was a Libertarian - his response was that he is a "classical" liberal!  I almost fell out of my recliner!  But as he further explained the definition of a "classical liberal," it actually made sense - striving to create an environment whereby every human being is provided with an opportunity to succeed - not by doling out hand-outs, but by consolidating available resources aimed at making available equal opportunities for all.

As one viewer tweeted, "...he sure didn't appear to be the evil force depicted by most of the of the media pundits..."

The Koch brothers donate billions of dollars to medical research, cancer prevention, hospitals, college scholarships and fellowships, to name a few.  But they also donate $300 million dollars each year to local, State and National candidates for public office (mostly Republican), for which they are chastised for.  Never heard that same chastising of George Soros's donations of hundreds of millions of dollars to progressive candidates.  Wonder why?

I caught part of that interview and enjoyed it. I thought Koch came across as being a pretty reasonable guy.

roadburner

The dealer that tried to stiff me in several ways on a CPO Mustang GT back on September 1 has now chopped another $500 off the advertised price. They've had the car since July 16 and have now reduced the price by $5800 since it was first listed. They can continue to choke on it.

qbrozen

abacomike said:

Making NJ "look" clean is one thing - but "smelling" clean is quite a different story.

I used to travel from Queens to Potomac Maryland to visit my brother and his family.  The only way to get there by car is the NJ Turnpike.  I still remember the pungent odor of the refineries on the way past Elizabeth NJ.

But, the rest of NJ is really nice - odor free - except for the occasional sewage treatment plants all States have to live with.

That's actually not the refineries. That's Staten Island!

andres3

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

Either that or it was bought back once already, like your first one was.

Maybe there was a switch....kind of like kill two birds with one stone, just do a switch.

You mean passing around the hot potato, but in this case it's not a potato, but lemons they keep trading between customers?

andres3

roadburner said:

The dealer that tried to stiff me in several ways on a CPO Mustang GT back on September 1 has now chopped another $500 off the advertised price. They've had the car since July 16 and have now reduced the price by $5800 since it was first listed. They can continue to choke on it.

Is the price they are trying to sell it now lower than what you had offered and they switched up on you?

roadburner

andres3 said:

Is the price they are trying to sell it now lower than what you had offered and they switched up on you?

Yes, by around $1000.

ab348

roadburner said:

The dealer that tried to stiff me in several ways on a CPO Mustang GT back on September 1 has now chopped another $500 off the advertised price. They've had the car since July 16 and have now reduced the price by $5800 since it was first listed. They can continue to choke on it.

Glad to see you're not bitter.

roadburner

ab348 said:

Glad to see you're not bitter.

I prefer to call it gloating ; I wouldn't patronize those jokers no matter how much they cut the price.

Mr_Shiftright

That's quite true. The American "socialist" isn't a socialist at all--not even close, and the libertarian is now, in fact, another word for populist, which has a long and colorful (and somewhat whacky) tradition in American politics.

Nobody is saying anything of substance anymore. These are all rehearsed and vetted speeches that are cleared by the people who gave them money.

The trick is to see what they eventually DO when elected, not what they SAY they will do. When you view it that way, 99% of all American politicians are actually centrists, and have been for decades and decades. American voters don't actually like radical or reactionary leaders, and will not support them in the long run.

houdini1

I wouldn't call our current 2 termer a centrist, and for a President, 8 years is the long run. I guess he represents the 1%.

suydam

And somehow this isn't politics???

snakeweasel

suydam said:

And somehow this isn't politics???

Everything is politics. 

oldfarmer50

PF_Flyer said:

If not gps trackers, how about something that will take a bit of infrastructure like giving everyone an EZ-Pass transponder and erecting "toll booths" like the express EZ-Pass lanes that exist now? When you drive under them, kaching, they take your quarter.

Start with the heaviest traveled, most abused roads. Keep the money generated by those roads for the upkeep of those roads and not use it for anything else. I've thought about this a lot for some of our local roads and just a handfull of "collection points" would certainly supplement road funds.

The tricks are getting the government to give something away (the transponders), keeping the money where it belongs (I may NOT be onto something here), and preventing the creation of "toll blockers" for drivers to get around things. (OK, I'm definitely NOT onto something here)

PF_Flyer said:

If not gps trackers, how about something that will take a bit of infrastructure like giving everyone an EZ-Pass transponder and erecting "toll booths" like the express EZ-Pass lanes that exist now? When you drive under them, kaching, they take your quarter.

Start with the heaviest traveled, most abused roads. Keep the money generated by those roads for the upkeep of those roads and not use it for anything else. I've thought about this a lot for some of our local roads and just a handfull of "collection points" would certainly supplement road funds.

The tricks are getting the government to give something away (the transponders), keeping the money where it belongs (I may NOT be onto something here), and preventing the creation of "toll blockers" for drivers to get around things. (OK, I'm definitely NOT onto something here)

Transponders can still be used to track you. Just ask this guy:

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

stever said:

Check out the Tesla download yesterday.

A patch to put the Model S into self-driving mode is just a download away. (Computer World)

It's not full blown but looks like a pretty big step in that direction, at least for highway travel.

I hope the self driving cars are available the day the doctor says I can't drive any more.

I hope I croak the day the doctor says i can't drive.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

The dealer that tried to stiff me in several ways on a CPO Mustang GT back on September 1 has now chopped another $500 off the advertised price. They've had the car since July 16 and have now reduced the price by $5800 since it was first listed. They can continue to choke on it.

The Ford dealer selling my Eclipse trade in still has it since July 22. Price is still $2k too high at $14,000. What are they thinking?

stickguy

that a sucker will come along eventually?

driver100

I just got an email from our Passat dealer in Tampa, $2000 off on any car....and we don't even need a trade in.

Tempting......I don't think so.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

The dealer that tried to stiff me in several ways on a CPO Mustang GT back on September 1 has now chopped another $500 off the advertised price. They've had the car since July 16 and have now reduced the price by $5800 since it was first listed. They can continue to choke on it.

The Ford dealer selling my Eclipse trade in still has it since July 22. Price is still $2k too high at $14,000. What are they thinking?

Maybe they are waiting for the one person who will pay anything to get that particular model.

abacomike

qbrozen said:

Making NJ "look" clean is one thing - but "smelling" clean is quite a different story.

I used to travel from Queens to Potomac Maryland to visit my brother and his family.  The only way to get there by car is the NJ Turnpike.  I still remember the pungent odor of the refineries on the way past Elizabeth NJ.

But, the rest of NJ is really nice - odor free - except for the occasional sewage treatment plants all States have to live with.

That's actually not the refineries. That's Staten Island!

Elizabeth, NJ, used to smell so bad, I used to put my HVAC in the car on recirculate when I drove through there.  It was an odor that is very difficult to explain using synonyms.  Gary IN used to have the same odor.

berri

Hey, the Philadelphia area could be a real treat to the olfactory senses too. Not always the most pleasant arrival view and experience flying in there.

stickguy

hey, y'all like gasoline to put in your cars, and all the chemicals needed to support the American lifestyle. They have to come from someplace!

Sadly, that little stretch along the Jersey turnpike has given way too many people the wrong idea about NJ. there are many beautiful (and fine smelling!) areas. They don't call it the Garden state for nothing.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

I just got an email from our Passat dealer in Tampa, $2000 off on any car....and we don't even need a trade in.

Tempting......I don't think so.

Just got another mailer from some dealer wanting to give me $3100 for my wife's PT Cruiser. It just turned 30k miles so I don't think so.

Didn't think there would be any car worth less than a VW right now.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

I just got an email from our Passat dealer in Tampa, $2000 off on any car....and we don't even need a trade in.

Tempting......I don't think so.

Just got another mailer from some dealer wanting to give me $3100 for my wife's PT Cruiser. It just turned 30k miles so I don't think so.

Didn't think there would be any car worth less than a VW right now.

You could get a pretty nice Jetta for about $18000 right now, less the $2000 discount my dealer was offering, and with your trade of $3000, gets you into a brand new car with a 3 year warranty and zero miles on it, for $13000, with $100 to go out and celebrate with a nice dinner.

Even the Jetta should last at least 10 years....that's just about $1300 a year, it doesn't get much better than that!

driver100

I was just thinking about that last post....those things never really work out that way in real life.

imidazol97

Bragging always gets you in the end.

"Volkswagen Bragged About The Effects Of Diesel Cheating For Years"

" As Consumer Reports points out, a 2008 press release shows Volkswagen bragging about the discrepancy of their diesel models’ real-world performance when compared to EPA testing:

" “While the Environmental Protection Agency estimates the Jetta TDI at an economical 29 mpg city and 40 mpg highway, Volkswagen went a step further to show real world fuel economy of the Jetta TDI. Leading third-party certifier, AMCI, tested the Jetta TDI and found it performed 24 percent better in real world conditions, achieving 38 mpg in the city and 44 mpg on the highway.”

"And CR says it’s these better-than-sticker estimates that pushed many people to go out and buy a diesel model over their gasoline and hybrid counterparts.

"Consumer Reports also looked back at 16 diesel models they recently tested and found that only Volkswagen-branded diesel models exceeded the EPA-estimated MPG numbers. The signs have been there all along!"

http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-bragged-about-the-effects-of-diesel-cheating-1737040865