Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

capriracer

Retired tire engineer here!

Out of round theory? No theory - truth! Tires are indeed screened for what is called "uniformity". That's a combination of roundness and stiffness. Vehicle manufacturers have specs for tire and wheel uniformity - individually and/or combined. Tires in the replacement market only have the tire manufacturer's specs - which are typically much higher than OEM specs.

OE tires? Tires are built to the vehicle manufacturer's specs - and every spec is such that it would NOT be what the tire manufacturer would do on his own - typically for fuel economy, which adversely affects tire wear and grip!.

In other words, if you do not like the tires that came on your new car (or truck!), blame the vehicle manufacturer. The tire manufacturer is merely supplying what the vehicle manufacturer wants.

houdini1

driver100 said:

Yeh, decided to zig zag across your great country. That was pretty funny. How did I get Conneecticut out of Cincinatti? I guess because I have been up since 5 a.m. and drove until 5 p.m. and I am totally exhausted.

Actually, I think my brain has to turn into Jello to be behind the wheel for 10 hours. The first hour seems pretty long, but, then you become like a robot and the hours kind of go by.

Well, I am going to sleep now....set the alarm for 6:30, sleep in tomorrow. Did I read there were 57 states?

Yes, 57 states, because one of our politicians has visited all 57 of them. Don't worry about being kidded about your geography skills. "Conneecticut" is perfectly acceptable for "Cincinatti" in Canadian spelling. You should see me try to spell Seyzcatchiwon.

imidazol97

@driver100 Hope you missed the backups in Cincy. I checked 5-6 pm on maps.google and there was the heavier than usual Friday backup before the 75-71 bridge with all the folks traveling south for various reasons. On the KY side of the river was another major slow area in red due to accident IIRC.

imidazol97

capriracer said:

Retired tire engineer here!

Out of round theory? No theory - truth! Tires are indeed screened for what is called "uniformity". That's a combination of roundness and stiffness. Vehicle manufacturers have specs for tire and wheel uniformity - individually and/or combined. Tires in the replacement market only have the tire manufacturer's specs - which are typically much higher than OEM specs.

By higher you mean a larger number allowing more runout and more variation in pounds of stiffness? Not a higher, tighter requirement meaning a better tire?

iluvmysephia1

The car I'm eyeing, the 2016 Scion iA, comes with Toyo 185/60R-16 Proxes A27's. I recall Toyo's on one of my imports and I believe it was the 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS. This one reviewer loved the Toyo's because of their sort of tall sidewalls - they said they helped smooth out little bumps. Dodge is pocked with brick roads that are bumpy, so I dig that about the Toyo Proxes.

driver100

iluvmysephia1 said:

Fastest cars last year were Chevy Cruz....like to pass fast and zig zag into traffic. - This year it was Kia Souls, they don't look fast but their drivers drive them fast.


Love this, driver100, as I am one of those Kia Soul drivers. I do like the car's agility and ability to pick holes to go through on the road. The car is one that gives you the "feel" you're speeding when you're not. Fun car ta drive!

Are you anywhere near one of my rock band favorites The Tragically Hip, driver100? I believe they hail from Kingston, Ontario. An hour or so east of Toronto. I never tire of listening to those guys and their live shows are sweet. Haven't seen them live since August of 2002 at Seattle's Pier 62/63. The guy selling beer on the pier was from Chicago and so is Mrs.iluvmysephia1, so, free draft brews during the whole show. Great show!!

Iluvmyselphia, I didn't notice Souls too much before but there were quite a few on the highway. At one point I was in a long line of cars in the left lane, and this Soul was behind me. I normally go in the lane to the right if I can, but have learned if I do that I block myself in, so I just kept up with the others. The Soul zigged 2 lanes over, got around a few cars and zigged back in about 6 cars ahead of me.

I learned, it is better on a long run to just keep distance and let the others play their games. I don't think I arrive that much later, and my blood pressure stays more normal

Tragically Hip, you have good taste. Great band, they live about 2 1/2 hours East of Toronto (referred to as T.O. these days, and I am about 1 hour West of T.O.)

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100:

I had the same assessment of my E400 on my 600 mile round trip to Ponte Vedra last month.  In my case, I turned on Distronic Plus and the car even steers itself straight in the middle of the lane.

I averaged 31.7 mpg round trip at 75 mph. That was the first road trip I've taken in this car and I sure wasn't disappointed.

Take your time driver and arrive safely!

We made it.......left Valdosta at 8 a.m. and got to Tampa area by noon.......it was a nice short driving day. Still lots to do getting the place going again.

That Distronic Plus sounds nice for a bit of a break from driving, but, I don't know if I could let myself use it much. I only used the cruise control for a short time when my foot needed a rest, but, most of the time traffic is too dense and unpredictable to use it very much.

I mentioned my friend with the R8 almost went through the windshield when a car cut in front and his auto braking system slammed on the brakes. He is now worried about the guy behind him not being able to stop as fast as he would have. He found it better to steer around the other car, rather than braking.

The Passat started right away and ran nice. Hard to back up a car without a rear camera though....you can get very used to all the latest technology.

roadburner

iluvmysephia1 said:

Are you anywhere near one of my rock band favorites The Tragically Hip

I like the The Tragically Hip song "Escape Is At Hand For The Travellin' Man"- a tribute to the late Jim Ellison of the terrific power pop band Material Issue.

driver100

houdini1 said:

driver100 said:

Yeh, decided to zig zag across your great country. That was pretty funny. How did I get Conneecticut out of Cincinatti? I guess because I have been up since 5 a.m. and drove until 5 p.m. and I am totally exhausted.

Actually, I think my brain has to turn into Jello to be behind the wheel for 10 hours. The first hour seems pretty long, but, then you become like a robot and the hours kind of go by.

Well, I am going to sleep now....set the alarm for 6:30, sleep in tomorrow. Did I read there were 57 states?

Yes, 57 states, because one of our politicians has visited all 57 of them. Don't worry about being kidded about your geography skills. "Conneecticut" is perfectly acceptable for "Cincinatti" in Canadian spelling. You should see me try to spell Seyzcatchiwon.

They do both start with the same letter. One of those seniors moments...they come more frequently these days.

Saskatchewan is a difficult one.....there should be a law against using a name like that! Then there is a city in Saskatchewan called Saskatoon, all very confusing.

But even spelling those wrong I can understand, 57 states makes some sense,,,,since 57 is a major number esp for the Hienz company, but how does one get Connecticut and Cincinnati mixed up? I suppose each starts with a C, has about the same vowels and the same amount of vowels. Good thing we didn't go through Pittsburg, which we could have done, I would have got it mixed up with Philadelphia.

This getting older ain't fun.

berri

57 states - you've probably just given some government contractors another way to rip off the taxpayers

driver100

imidazol97 said:

@driver100 Hope you missed the backups in Cincy. I checked 5-6 pm on maps.google and there was the heavier than usual Friday backup before the 75-71 bridge with all the folks traveling south for various reasons. On the KY side of the river was another major slow area in red due to accident IIRC.

Just going from memory but I think we were there around 4 pm. The GPS lady said to start moving to the right but by then the line up went way back. I had to slow down a lot in the next lane over to the left, and then when the right lane started up I just wedged myself in front of a slow starting up truck. Then another guy got in behind me. Once we rounded the curve we moved quite well over the old bridge. At least with 4 lanes it actually was moving pretty well. We did hit a bit of a slow down after the bridge. But, overall from Dayton through to Lexington although busy moved really well....mostly at 80 mph in the left lane. Not too many police around in that area. I found if you travel in a pack and go with the traffic 80 isn't a problem in 70 zones, but I try to keep it at 78 just to be a bit on the safe side....2 miles slower per hour isn't going to make much of a difference on a 500 or 600 mile a day trip.

Thanks for the info though....it was a big help in knowing what to expect. I keep hoping one day the repairs will be over and there won't be construction zones or pylons.

ab348

What's up with all these repeated quotes and duplicate posts? Cleanup in aisle 5...

iluvmysephia1

I like the The Tragically Hip song "Escape Is At Hand For The Travellin' Man"- a tribute to the late Jim Ellison of the terrific power pop band Material Issue.

Have to look this one up - if Gordon Downie likes it it must be pretty good. I already know of 'Escape is at Hand...', the Hip song, but I'd like to learn more about Jim Ellison and his band.

What's up with all these repeated quotes and duplicate posts? Cleanup in aisle 5...

Really, I am starting to wonder, too!

snakeweasel

PF_Flyer said:

Might be an interesting survey. What percentage of your vehicle is "appliance" vs "automotive enjoyment"?

If there was a Lamborghini in the driveway, that would be 100% to just drive, for example.

So, without getting into brands, how do your vehicles fall on the scale?

I like my manual tranny and like driving, but I think I'm looking at 75% appliance. Maybe...

That would depend on what one defines as "appliance" and "automotive enjoyment" and are they exclusive. It is possible that a vehicle can be used in an "appliance" sense but still be enjoyable to drive"

I would say that I am fast approaching the time of year where 100% of the time my driving is "Appliance" as it will be specifically for needed driving. However a lot of that driving would be enjoyable.

snakeweasel

stever said:

Only 80%? Those bricks (and cobbles) are nice to look at but even chip seal is a pain to drive on.

Had fun hauling an olive tree a couple of nights ago for a friend. Fork lift slid it into the van, was able to get it out by sliding it down a setion of ladder. 'Bout 4x4', dunno, 50 gallon size? The van is definitely an appliance.

Several years ago we bought a couple of fruit trees for the back yard. We brought them home in the convertible in the back seats with the top down. I have seen others doing the same thing.

stever

That would work. Probably could've even stacked up last night's load.

(No idea on the dupe quotes, cleaned up one earlier today and it seemed to reappear. Trying again).

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

carnaught said:

GG, they asked for a VIN for the '16 that you wanted to negotiate on. This, plus making the deal more of a "trade" means they won't have to sell your '14 as a buy-back. They could legitimately call it a traded car.

Never thought of it that way. If my '14 CTS ends up on some lot somewhere, asking for the Carfax isn't going to help any dealer sell it.

andres....usually, I don't like flat (vs shiny) paint on cars. On that ATS-V, it was incredible looking, though.

I would think that Cadillac wouldn't take a chance on selling your old car. Passing it off to someone else without a full disclosure would open Caddy up to a big liability.

graphicguy

Bradd...need some advice. I'm sailing out of Bayonne, NJ on December 12. Flying into Newark the 11th. Trying to decide whether to stay in NYC, or Newark. Not sure how far Bayonne is from NYC. Or, is there a hotel(s) on the Jersey side close to Bayonne overlooking NYC?

Appreciate the help, in advance!

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

According to Fox News Channel:

VW announced that it found an "internal problem" affecting 800,000 additional vehicles for excess carbon dioxide emissions but did not indicate which vehicles were affected.  I would think these vehicles are gasoline powered since it is CO2 emissions that are involved.

Further, VW stated it would cost 2 billion dollars to correct the problem.  I am starting to wonder what the next surprise announcement is going to involve.  Not good for VW - it keeps getting worse!  

This is hitting closer to home, so I checked and the Passat has a 2.5 litre engine. The 1.4 l is in very small models;

Tuesday’s findings over carbon dioxide emissions, and petrol-fuelled cars, are understood to involve smaller 1.4-litre engines, mostly in the VW Polo and Golf, as well some Seat and Skoda cars, and the Audi A1 and A3.

A change in the CO2 emissions of the vehicles would also affect their fuel economy, VW admitted. "It was established that the CO2 levels and thus the fuel consumption figures for some models were set too low during the CO2 certification process," the company said.

The company said it would “endeavour to clarify the further course of action as quickly as possible and ensure the correct CO2 classification for the vehicles affected” with the responsible authorities.

And, of course, the usuall blah blah blah,

“The board of management of Volkswagen deeply regrets this situation and wishes to underscore its determination to systematically continue along the present path of clarification and transparency,” it added.

Why don't they just say we got caught cheating our customers!

Unless a customer considered emissions in the purchase of their vehicle, I don't see the customer being cheated.

If Peoples Car produced a car that is supposed to meet certain specification and they didn't and the buyer is inconvenienced in any way due to it they have been cheated.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

imidazol97 said:

andres3 said:

Unless a customer considered emissions in the purchase of their vehicle, I don't see the customer being cheated.

Sounds like they will have to adjust the software to get the CO2 levels down to where they alleged they
were in the earlier certification documents. That affects customers.

"A change in the CO2 emissions of the vehicles would also affect their fuel economy, VW admitted. "It was established that the CO2 levels and thus the fuel consumption figures for some models were set too low during the CO2 certification process," the company said.

"The company said it would “endeavour to clarify the further course of action as quickly as possible and ensure the correct CO2 classification for the vehicles affected” with the responsible authorities."

So the solution is don't alter the vehicles, and just pay the fine.

Not so sure that that would be an option. It's very possible that if the cars can't meet the emissions requirements for when they were manufactured they may not pass state emissions tests and therefore ineligible to renew their registration.

stickguy

GG. definitely stay in Jersey. much cheaper to start with, and way more convenient. Newark, Jersey city, Bayonne and Elizabeth are all close together. bayonne is real close to the airport. A bunch of the hotels named for Newark airport are actually in Bayonne. So should be something close to the cruise terminal, and can get shuttled over from airport to hotel and hotel to boat

berri

You might also inquire if the cruise line has any rate deals with a hotel there.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

Driver, if you were taking a bridge to Connecticut, I think you were slightly off course!

Give the poor guy a break. I'm not sure I could name all the Canadian Provinces correctly and he has to remember 57 states.

57 states of what?  Matter?  Energy?  Certainly not the 57 States of the United States!  Now if you include territories, we could add Guam, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, The Marshall Islands, etc.  but we're still short a few.  Although I heard Texas could be subdivided into 5 states instead of one.  

Obama once stated that he visited 57 states, and Texas can only be subdivided into multiple states if Congress approves.

abacomike

@snakeweasel:

Picky, picky, picky!  

snakeweasel

houdini1 said:

You should see me try to spell Seyzcatchiwon.

I think we just did.

graphicguy

stickguy said:

GG. definitely stay in Jersey. much cheaper to start with, and way more convenient. Newark, Jersey city, Bayonne and Elizabeth are all close together. bayonne is real close to the airport. A bunch of the hotels named for Newark airport are actually in Bayonne. So should be something close to the cruise terminal, and can get shuttled over from airport to hotel and hotel to boat

Snake....thanks so much. What are your thoughts on the W Hotel, Hoboken.....supposed to have great views, but not sure how far it is from the airport or cruise terminal? Embassy? Close to airport, but not necessarily anything but a place to stay for a night.

Again...appreciate the advice!

[Deleted User]

capriracer said:

Retired tire engineer here!

Nice! Are you allowed to disclose what kind of projects you worked on? What's your take on the trend to low-profile tires?

I've typically complained loudly about the tires Subaru specs for their vehicles, including my 2012 Impreza, but the 2015 Outback tires are performing better than expected.

stickguy

I never stayed in any hotel right in that area, but I know there are a bunch of Marriott properties around the airport. Not sure how long you will be there to know if it is worth something fancy, instead of the SpringHill for $100 or so!

I assume you are going out of this terminal? Hey, until today, I did not realize cruises even went out of bayonne!

http://www.hotels.com/de1804393/hotels-near-cape-liberty-cruise-port-bayonne-united-states-of-america/?rffrid=sem.hcom.US.google.003.00.04.s.kwrd=ZzZz.stxI5sxi3.0.75635339439.1020w9o38457.d.c&gclid=CP2cn7PHgskCFdcZgQod5yUGlQ

roadburner

iluvmysephia1 said:

Have to look this one up - if Gordon Downie likes it it must be pretty good. I already know of 'Escape is at Hand...', the Hip song, but I'd like to learn more about Jim Ellison and his band.

Here you go: Material Issue Retrospective

Two great live clips from 1992:
What Girls Want
Valerie Loves Me

imidazol97

driver100 said:

But, overall from Dayton through to Lexington although busy moved really well....mostly at 80 mph in the left lane.

The section from Dayton to Cincy is 65 mph, not 70. It's fun to see the State Patrol cars picking up the many people who treat it as 70 and drive 75 and more. The patrol is creative at picking locations to run their radar or laser. Glad you made it through that and Cincy.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

driver100 said:

But, overall from Dayton through to Lexington although busy moved really well....mostly at 80 mph in the left lane.

The section from Dayton to Cincy is 65 mph, not 70. It's fun to see the State Patrol cars picking up the many people who treat it as 70 and drive 75 and more. The patrol is creative at picking locations to run their radar or laser. Glad you made it through that and Cincy.

I do remember the 65 mph zone too and there cars were going 75 in the left lane. Police didn't seem to bother them. I usually use a 10% rule, so I wouldn't go more than 72 around there.

Thanks again for the heads up....I was extra careful and just stayed in a pack. It is nice not to have to worry about getting caught for speeding.

capriracer

imidazol97 said:

capriracer said:

Retired tire engineer here!

Out of round theory? No theory - truth! Tires are indeed screened for what is called "uniformity". That's a combination of roundness and stiffness. Vehicle manufacturers have specs for tire and wheel uniformity - individually and/or combined. Tires in the replacement market only have the tire manufacturer's specs - which are typically much higher than OEM specs.

By higher you mean a larger number allowing more runout and more variation in pounds of stiffness? Not a higher, tighter requirement meaning a better tire?

Yes, not a better tire. The reason for this is 2 fold.

1) The vehicle manufacturer wants NO warranty for vibration, so they typically have tight specs.

2) New vehicle owners are typically much more fussy, so the levels where complaints start is higher.

capriracer

tyguy said:

capriracer said:

Retired tire engineer here!

Nice! Are you allowed to disclose what kind of projects you worked on? What's your take on the trend to low-profile tires?

I worked on a lot of project in over 40 years, but I am more of a generalist - what do tires do and how do they do it.

I'm not a big fan of low profile tires, but vehicle designers are. They like the way a large surface area of metal appears - and not the way black dirty rubber looks.

houdini1

snakeweasel said:

houdini1 said:

You should see me try to spell Seyzcatchiwon.

I think we just did.

Canadian version.

graphicguy

Thanks, Stickguy!

Only be there for one night. Fact is, I probably would have just come in the morning of the cruise and wouldn't have needed a hotel. But, given it's winter, and whether related delays are more likely, I'm coming in the day before.

I guess Bayonne only has one dock. Royal Caribbean Cruise lines is the only one to use it. But, they dock their largest ship there. It's supposed to be a site to behold.

Again, thanks!

PS...noticed I called you "Snake" earlier. My apologies!

driver100

graphicguy said:

Thanks, Stickguy!

Only be there for one night. Fact is, I probably would have just come in the morning of the cruise and wouldn't have needed a hotel. But, given it's winter, and whether related delays are more likely, I'm coming in the day before.

I guess Bayonne only has one dock. Royal Caribbean Cruise lines is the only one to use it. But, they dock their largest ship there. It's supposed to be a site to behold.

Again, thanks!

PS...noticed I called you "Snake" earlier. My apologies!

See, other people have senior moments too!

And, they aren't even seniors.

stickguy

I saw that. Didn't take offense. You got the S right. Not like mixing up Cincinnati and Connecticut.

And 110% agree smarter to come in night before. Don't tempt the fates with that airport.

graphicguy

Driver....I'm not that far behind you guys.

Stick...thanks! I'll come in on 12/11, get a good night's rest near the airport and be ready to go on the 12th. Wife leaves for China on 11/22.

stickguy

Sounds like fun. Hopefully your replacement car is safely in garage by then.

iluvmysephia1

Hey, driver100, thanks for the Material Issue and Jim Ellison sampling there. If Gordie likes it I would usually like to hear it, too.

isellhondas

stickguy said:

GG. definitely stay in Jersey. much cheaper to start with, and way more convenient. Newark, Jersey city, Bayonne and Elizabeth are all close together. bayonne is real close to the airport. A bunch of the hotels named for Newark airport are actually in Bayonne. So should be something close to the cruise terminal, and can get shuttled over from airport to hotel and hotel to boat

If you stay in Newark I wouldn't walk too far from the hotel!

driver100

iluvmysephia1 said:

Hey, driver100, thanks for the Material Issue and Jim Ellison sampling there. If Gordie likes it I would usually like to hear it, too.

That was actually roadburner who had that additional info...but, that's OK, happening a lot around here lately and not as bad as Cincinatti - Connecticut.

abacomike

driver100 said:

Hey, driver100, thanks for the Material Issue and Jim Ellison sampling there. If Gordie likes it I would usually like to hear it, too.

That was actually roadburner who had that additional info...but, that's OK, happening a lot around here lately and not as bad as Cincinatti - Connecticut.

Cincinnati is one of the more difficult words to spell correctly - especially for Canadians trying to translate Canadianese to American English.

Good try, driver - not bad for someone who comes from where we get all that snow every winter.  

Michaell

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

iluvmysephia1 said:

Hey, driver100, thanks for the Material Issue and Jim Ellison sampling there. If Gordie likes it I would usually like to hear it, too.

That was actually roadburner who had that additional info...but, that's OK, happening a lot around here lately and not as bad as Cincinatti - Connecticut.

Cincinnati is one of the more difficult words to spell correctly - especially for Canadians trying to translate Canadianese to American English.

Good try, driver - not bad for someone who comes from where we get all that snow every winter.  

Maybe I'm missing something - where would you add the 'u' to Cincinnati?

abacomike

@Michaell said:

"Maybe I'm missing something - where would you add the 'u' to Cincinnati?"

Anywhere you want!  

oldfarmer50

capriracer said:

tyguy said:

capriracer said:

Retired tire engineer here!

Nice! Are you allowed to disclose what kind of projects you worked on? What's your take on the trend to low-profile tires?

I worked on a lot of project in over 40 years, but I am more of a generalist - what do tires do and how do they do it.

I'm not a big fan of low profile tires, but vehicle designers are. They like the way a large surface area of metal appears - and not the way black dirty rubber looks.

Why not bring back whitewalls?

oldfarmer50

Latest on VW.

Seems someone is proposing that VW give aggrieved customers two gift cards. One with a cash value, the other good for purchases at VW dealers. Wonder if they're planning on charging people to fix their emissions?

abacomike

@oldfarmer50 said:

"Why not bring back whitewalls?"

Whitewalls had their place in time but were always difficult to keep clean/maintain.  When it rained, the whitewalls turned gray.

I really liked the thin red striped and blue striped tires like Uniroyal's "Tiger Paws" that I had on my red GTO.  They did not require the maintenance that whitewalls required.  

stickguy

I thought the 1K was a done deal? Saw that on the news earlier, but did not really catch the beginning.

explorerx4

Read today that this is the 50th anniversary of the 1965 Northeast blackout.
My memory of that is changing the channel on the TV, the lights going out and my parents being mad at me for a few minutes. I didn't get to touch the TV much back then, so it seemed like a double whammy.