;How do you think VW got emissions down to EPA specs? They put in a chip that changes horsepower, fuel economy to meet EPA requirements. Once the chip puts the engine on normal operation after the EPA test, horsepower goes up, fuel economy goes up, but emissions are 10-40 times the allowable level.
I keep waiting for a statement that the gas-powered models in the US haven't had any misrepresentation about their gas mileage by VW/Audi, whether by software switches to control the testing mode or by other techniques similar to the European gas engine fraud.
If they cheated on diesel info and gas model data in Europe, then the US may likely be next for gas model problems to be exposed.
The problem is if VW/Audi cheated here on gas models as well as diesel, have other brands also used deceit in the testing on gas models as well.
Andres, it's really not a matter of "point of view." It has to do with what's right and what's wrong.
We all have to be careful not to use synthetic reasoning - using unproved or unsubstantiated information or data as "fact" and then go on to refer to that info to prove or disprove a hypothesis.
If an automobile manufacturer has to design its engines to pollute 10-40 times permissible levels of emissions to gain an edge on horsepower and fuel economy, everyone gets cheated - the owners of those vehicles, the people who have to breathe those pollutants, the people who buy the polluting vehicles as used cars, etc.
It's just a matter of looking at things from "various" and "alternative" points of view. If VW had taken a more realistic and scientific approach, taking into consideration the possible consequences of cheating in determining whether or not to build engines that "cheat", they would have not built those engines.
It's just a shame that they allowed this to continue in order to be more competitive. VW stated that it was a group of mid-level rogue engineers that caused this fiasco and that upper management had no knowledge of the "cheat chip". I find that hard to believe when considering 11+ million vehicles are affected - but if they didn't know about that chip, that doesn't say much for their management.
Andres, it's really not a matter of "point of view." It has to do with what's right and what's wrong.
We all have to be careful not to use synthetic reasoning - using unproved or substantiated information or data as "fact" and then go on to refer to that info to prove or disprove a hypothesis.
If an automobile manufacturer has to design its engines to pollute 10-40 times permissible levels of emissions to gain an edge on horsepower and fuel economy, everyone gets cheated - the owners of those vehicles, the people who have to breathe those pollutants, the people who buy the polluting vehicles as used cars, etc.
It's just a matter of looking at things from "various" and "alternative" points of view. If VW had taken a more realistic and scientific approach, taking into consideration the possible consequences of cheating in determining whether or not to build engines that "cheat", they would have not built those engines.
It's just a shame that they allowed this to continue in order to be more competitive. VW stated that it was a group of mid-level rogue engineers that caused this fiasco and that upper management had no knowledge of the "cheat chip". I find that hard to believe when considering 11+ million vehicles are affected - but if they didn't know about that chip, that doesn't say much for their management.
My point of view was that if you don't alter the vehicles then HP and fuel economy remain the same, and the only "cheated" variable from this point of view would be emissions. Based on that theory, if one (any owner) didn't attribute a value to "clean emissions," then one is not truly "cheated," at least in a monetary sense. I suppose they will let lawyers and judges decide on these semantics.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Has Ralph Nader had a shot at this VW lying scandal yet? This could be the biggest automobile scandal since the Big 3 traveled ta Washington, DC, stating their state in 2008. Or the Ford Exploding flipping over again and again because of tire issues. Or, yes, Ralph and friends, the Chevrolet Corvair flipping over due to suspension inequities round about 1964.
I spose I'll get both sides of the story here on Edmunds because we seem ta have a truckload of VW fans on here.
oldfarmer50 - are you diggin' your '15 Mustang GT? Did you opt for the automatic or stick? Color?
I went for the auto because I don't trust my clutch knee.
I'm digging the power of that Coyote V8 but I'm especially digging that a woman at work that is young enough to be my daughter told me I could "park it in her garage".
I've seen a lot of late model Mustangs around my area and I think they were mainly driven by old coots like me. Maybe the kids can't afford them.
RE; Homelink Thanks everyone for your replies. Mike, last year you gave me excellent instructions and I got it going right away.
This time I couldn't get the needed amber light, no matter what I did, and I spent almost an hour. Then I was on the phone with first level Homelink rep for almost 2 hours We tried every combination and probably wiped out my settings for the 2 garage doors at home. He gave up and sent me to level 2, a nice young lady.
Then 2nd lady tried for 1/2 hour then asked if I wanted a break. I had dinner, got a new battery for the garage remote, and she called back in exactly an hour and a half. I think she researched the problem.
Her fix was to ignore the wrong colored lights...I never got an amber. Hold the button, it went green, then red, then flashed green. When it is flashing hold remote near and press remote.
The next step would have been to go to MB dealer, but she got it fixed. She did say new Mercedes seemed to be harder than average to program.
Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time.
The window sticker lists EPA mileage estimates, plus greenhouse and smog emissions. Several brands have made restitution to customers based on not meeting the fuels mileage estimates. If I had a VW diesel, I'd be worried about the emissions/exhaust system being 'down engineered' to only handle the cheater software parameters.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
"Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time."
I mentioned "Escalade" because you said your case was "escaladed" as opposed "escalated"! Just a matter of Canadian spelling vs. American spelling - again!
Read today that this is the 50th anniversary of the 1965 Northeast blackout. My memory of that is changing the channel on the TV, the lights going out and my parents being mad at me for a few minutes. I didn't get to touch the TV much back then, so it seemed like a double whammy.
I remember that. Here in Nova Scotia our lights did not go out that night. But I remember as a 9 year old being at home with my grandmother. It was a Tuesday night and my parents normally went out that night to a regular social event. My grandmother and I were in the living room watching TV and the lights dipped and flickered for a moment, long enough to make her wonder out loud what was going on. Later on there was a news bulletin that cut in to tell us the first news of the blackout. I remember feeling a little scared because at that stage nobody knew why it happened or if it would spread.
Speaking of electrical things, I just had my house electrical service upgraded to 200 amps from the original 1950s 60 amp service. Two days of work by 2 and sometimes 3 electricians. This is the first step of doing a number of upgrades here over the next few years. The new panel is gigantic compared to what was here before.
As far as I am concerned, lying about emissions is as good as lying about horsepower, gas mileage and other performance statistics that we rely upon. As Mike has said, they are all interconnected, or at least seem to be. If the on-board computer is to be reprogrammed to accommodate proper emissions, I would be shocked if it did not have some kind of negative impact on vehicle performance. After all, if it didn't, why did they implement the cheat in the first place?
My curiosity is more surrounding how the government did not figure this out and whether other manufacturers have been taking advantage in a similar way that has not been identified yet. Should be interesting.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
As far as I am concerned, lying about emissions is as good as lying about horsepower, gas mileage and other performance statistics that we rely upon. As Mike has said, they are all interconnected, or at least seem to be. If the on-board computer is to be reprogrammed to accommodate proper emissions, I would be shocked if it did not have some kind of negative impact on vehicle performance. After all, if it didn't, why did they implement the cheat in the first place?
My curiosity is more surrounding how the government did not figure this out and whether other manufacturers have been taking advantage in a similar way that has not been identified yet. Should be interesting.
I can't wait to see how this whole thing with VW plays out.
How many class action lawsuits will be filed and how many years will it take to settle those suits?
When and how much will VW pay in penalties in the U.S. for cheating the EPA regulations?
When and how much will it cost VW to correct the cheat chips and how much horsepower and fuel economy will be affected?
There are many other issues and questions to be answered - I just want to see this played out. GM suffered! Takata is suffering (Daimler-Benz is now on the possible recall list for Takata airbags along with several other new additions). Toyota is suffering financially! "What's good for the goose is good for the gander!"
"Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time."
I mentioned "Escalade" because you said your case was "escaladed" as opposed "escalated"! Just a matter of Canadian spelling vs. American spelling - again!
"Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time."
I mentioned "Escalade" because you said your case was "escaladed" as opposed "escalated"! Just a matter of Canadian spelling vs. American spelling - again!
That's definitely what it was.......I got escaladed up. I am tired from dealing with Brighthouse for 2 hours and Homelink for 3 hours........quite a day. When you have two places there is 4X as much that can go wrong.
In Canada we also call those things that are in department stores Escaladers!
@abacomike I agree. I think VW will come out on the other side of it, it'll just be a question of what they look like, who they're owned by, and what their product strategy looks like.
FWIW, day 4 with the GTI and I find myself trying to find excuses to go for a spin...they know how to build a fun ride.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
Well, yeah, but. . . I was living in Canada when the song came out. Most of you probably don't know about the "Canadian content" requirements for radio music up North back then -- meant to keep the Canadian music industry from being overrun by the Collosus to the south and all.
The net result was that I heard Gordon Lightfood (whose music I enjoy, BTW) far, far too much. You wouldn't believe how often it was played. I'm sick to death of it now.
Now the Canadian Railroad Trilogy, on the other hand. . .
@abacomike I agree. I think VW will come out on the other side of it, it'll just be a question of what they look like, who they're owned by, and what their product strategy looks like.
FWIW, day 4 with the GTI and I find myself trying to find excuses to go for a spin...they know how to build a fun ride.
I've owned two VW's in the last 18 years (2003 and 1996). Both were outstanding vehicles and the resale value was excellent.
Car and Driver this month had an excellent editorial piece about the VW situation. Explained what they did, and the likely logic behind it (and included the technical constraints to the real solutions). Did not realize they injected diesel into the system to deal with the NOx.
I would link to it but don't think it comes out online until next month.
I thought I read a blurb about Nader and VW the other day but I can't find a link. He just opened a tort law museum in his hometown in CT, complete with a cherry red Corvair on display. (Boston Globe)
@ab348, upgraded to 200 amp (from fuses) in the UP. Maxed out at 100 amp here and need to do the same, quote is around $2,000. Why they didn't go big when they built the house beats me, it's not that old.
@cdnpinhead, Gordon got heavy airplay in the UP too. Way too heavy.
My sister is still mad at VW over her 2000 New Beetle's power windows that took years to get sorted out.
I find it amazing how some are so willing to give a pass to their favorite company, while hanging the one they consider unworthy. GM, Toyota, VW, no matter. It really reminds me political partisans, who would say Obama/Bush (cross one) lied when he said Sun raises on the East, or would not flinch at a footage of their favorite eating a newborn infant, essentially saying, ... but Clinton/Trump insert whatever objectionable action you think of.
@ab348, upgraded to 200 amp (from fuses) in the UP. Maxed out at 100 amp here and need to do the same, quote is around $2,000. Why they didn't go big when they built the house beats me, it's not that old.
Mine was about twice that coming up from the mid-1950s, but it needed to be done. The guys worked hard.
I've seen a lot of late model Mustangs around my area and I think they were mainly driven by old coots like me. Maybe the kids can't afford them.
All joking aside, you may have accidentally solved my dilemma- I've been trying to figure out why I am coming around to prefer the STI over a Performance Package GT; I think it's because the Mustang made me feel old. Yes, I'm nearly 59- but as I see it, growing old is inevitable. Growing up is strictly optional.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Got a good deal in the UP - $1,000 to update stuff that dated back to 1906. Was surprised that there was no knob and tube in the house when we bought it. Going solar would let me write off about half the $2,000 for a new panel but the rest of the numbers don't really pencil out.
I've seen a lot of late model Mustangs around my area and I think they were mainly driven by old coots like me. Maybe the kids can't afford them.
All joking aside, you may have accidentally solved my dilemma- I've been trying to figure out why I am coming around to prefer the STI over a Performance Package GT; I think it's because the Mustang made me feel old. Yes, I'm nearly 59- but as I see it, growing old is inevitable. Growing up is strictly optional.
Yeah but think of the chicks you'll get...think of the chicks!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Obama/Bush (cross one) lied when he said Sun raises on the East, or would not flinch at a footage of their favorite eating a newborn infant, essentially saying, ... but Clinton/Trump insert whatever objectionable action you think of.
Obama/Bush (cross one) lied when he said Sun raises on the East, or would not flinch at a footage of their favorite eating a newborn infant, essentially saying, ... but Clinton/Trump insert whatever objectionable action you think of.
This is supposed to a NO politics topic. Hosts?
Not really politics. He was only making a point that people are as partisan about car brands as they are about political candidates.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@ab348, upgraded to 200 amp (from fuses) in the UP. Maxed out at 100 amp here and need to do the same, quote is around $2,000. Why they didn't go big when they built the house beats me, it's not that old.
Mine was about twice that coming up from the mid-1950s, but it needed to be done. The guys worked hard.
That's interesting. Our house also had 60 amp fuses. When we upgraded to breakers I told the electrician we wanted 200 amp service. He said we didn't need 200 amp and talked me into 100 amp service. He also went on to say that 200 amp service is for real estate agents selling a house, not because people need it.
The house is almost 3,000 square feet and have never had to reset a breaker.
Obama/Bush (cross one) lied when he said Sun raises on the East, or would not flinch at a footage of their favorite eating a newborn infant, essentially saying, ... but Clinton/Trump insert whatever objectionable action you think of.
This is supposed to a NO politics topic. Hosts?
Not really politics. He was only making a point that people are as partisan about car brands as they are about political candidates.
Yep, that's how I interpreted the statement - nothing partisan about it.
@oldfarmer, Looking for an F150, but taking my time, wife and I have looked at a lot of them. May not end up buying anything, but most likely a 2015, if I do. However, the quotes I asked for are for 2014's. If I don't like the numbers, I'll just cross them off the list, but they are not your average trucks, which is probably why they haven't sold in 2 years.
You got me thinking about whether there were any new 2014s left and the nearest ones I could find were 500+ miles away in Ohio. The three I located were all super loaded $50k and up but they were only discounting them $3500 or so.
Doesn't make sense to be so cheap on a truck that is worth at least 25% less just from depreciation.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
@oldfarmer, Looking for an F150, but taking my time, wife and I have looked at a lot of them. May not end up buying anything, but most likely a 2015, if I do. However, the quotes I asked for are for 2014's. If I don't like the numbers, I'll just cross them off the list, but they are not your average trucks, which is probably why they haven't sold in 2 years.
You got me thinking about whether there were any new 2014s left and the nearest ones I could find were 500+ miles away in Ohio. The three I located were all super loaded $50k and up but they were only discounting them $3500 or so.
Doesn't make sense to be so cheap on a truck that is worth at least 25% less just from depreciation.
And I bought my 2013 F-150 for just over 21% off list including dealer discount and rebates at the time, in 2013! So the prices you are finding are not competitive at all. If that dealer doesn't put more money on the hood, his 2014 trucks will continue to be furniture.
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
@oldfarmer, Looking for an F150, but taking my time, wife and I have looked at a lot of them. May not end up buying anything, but most likely a 2015, if I do. However, the quotes I asked for are for 2014's. If I don't like the numbers, I'll just cross them off the list, but they are not your average trucks, which is probably why they haven't sold in 2 years.
You got me thinking about whether there were any new 2014s left and the nearest ones I could find were 500+ miles away in Ohio. The three I located were all super loaded $50k and up but they were only discounting them $3500 or so.
Doesn't make sense to be so cheap on a truck that is worth at least 25% less just from depreciation.
And I bought my 2013 F-150 for just over 21% off list including dealer discount and rebates at the time, in 2013! So the prices you are finding are not competitive at all. If that dealer doesn't put more money on the hood, his 2014 trucks will continue to be furniture.
Of course I was just looking at the Ford inventory web site so maybe if you were actually standing in the dealership they might offer more but you'd think on old lot queens they would want to advertise their best price. After 2 years I can't imagine they're waiting for that one customer who will pay top dollar.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Not a native speaker, but: it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
dino001 - man, I appreciate you on these spelling and pronunciation issues here in North America. I still mess up and put an apostrophe in between the t and s for a possessive application. What's funny is I can still remember the lack of attention to detail that existed when these things were being taught to us in Edmonds, WA, in grade school. I remember kids just plowing through the grammar exercises and wondering "Do these kids care about these petty...I...I mean very, very detailed grammatical rules?" You've got to be a certain type to want to get them all right. I thought for sure we were taught to use the apostrophe for a possessive application but that was wrong teaching or...wrong learning on our (students) part.
Interesting article. And it's (note correct use of apostrophe) what the EPA should be doing with regard to diesels. However, checking gas models needs to be included. As a lady who worked with us used to remind us about people who cheated in one method relative to whether or not they would lie in other instances, "A dog doesn't change its spots." (Note correct use of possessive pronoun without apostrophe.)
The VW/Audi article cited has a really good pun: "Volkswagen has provided a wake-up call to the possibility for a company to creatively drive through loopholes in the process." LOL
Not a native speaker, but: it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
Autocorrect does a lot of this stuff -- puts apostrophes in where they shouldn't be, for example. Don't be so quick to assume people don't know better. We're just in a hurry and didn't notice autocorrect did some weird stuff. I've often gone back and seen my posts and realized something got changed I didn't intend or i hit the wrong letter on the keyboard. This is a forum, not a writing class.
Obama/Bush (cross one) lied when he said Sun raises on the East, or would not flinch at a footage of their favorite eating a newborn infant, essentially saying, ... but Clinton/Trump insert whatever objectionable action you think of.
This is supposed to a NO politics topic. Hosts?
Not really politics. He was only making a point that people are as partisan about car brands as they are about political candidates.
Yep, that's how I interpreted the statement - nothing partisan about it.
That's exactly what I meant. People often have a strong need to belong to something and at that point they accept their group allegiance as overriding any independent judgment they may have otherwise. Once a R or D than the favorite candidate can do no wrong and the opponent is not even American, or he/she is obviously a foreign agent (must be, by definition, as he/she is from the opposing party), his/her presidency simply cannot be legitimate (who would vote for him/her - I don't know anybody, do you? It must have been rigged then, that's the proof.). Admitting to anything, even the smallest thing, is like saying "I'm wrong". It's not even really a political passion, it's more basic tribal instinct. Same instincts are visible in Afghanistan, where it doesn't matter whether the boy killed or raped the girl, it matters whether he is my tribe and she is somebody else's. The difference is modern states have ways of channeling them and corralling them into something easier to control, plus placing mechanisms allowing just people to detach from their tribe, should it be necessary.
Similar thing happens to car brands for some people - once you are BMW/GM/VW guy than any transgressions of "your" brand are "no big deal", "exaggerated by press", "media conspiracy", yet, when the other brand does it, then suddenly they have to be shut down and locked up.
That's interesting. Our house also had 60 amp fuses. When we upgraded to breakers I told the electrician we wanted 200 amp service. He said we didn't need 200 amp and talked me into 100 amp service. He also went on to say that 200 amp service is for real estate agents selling a house, not because people need it.
The house is almost 3,000 square feet and have never had to reset a breaker.
I'm doing this as prep for a heat pump installation as a starter, with the possibility of a bump-out or other renos later. The difference between 100 amp and this was only about $300.
Part of the issue here was half-a***d renos done over the years by a former owner. The main panel in the basement ended up in a clothes closet, a real no-no according to code here. They found the 220V cable going to the stove had a splice in it that was just stuffed up in the joists, no junction box or anything other than some Marrette wire nuts. And of course nothing was grounded. The original metal service pole on the side of the house was actually rusted. It was a mess for sure, so I don't mind the investment. It would hit me at the end anyway if I ever decide to sell.
They found the 220V cable going to the stove had a splice in it that was just stuffed up in the joists, no junction box or anything other than some Marrette wire nuts.
Wow. When I did the demo to remove soffit boxe above the cabinets in our galley kitchen, the electric stove needed to move over about 2 feet. The wire to it was aluminum despite the rest of the house's wiring being copper. The electricians working days at Lowes told me not to put in a junction box to move stove over and to abandon the aluminum wiring and put in a single run of copper.
Gotta love the experts that Lowes used to have working days in plumbing and electric departments.
I'm maxed out and don't even have a dedicated 15 amp circuit available for a small 110v hot tub. You were smart to upgrade.
@imidazol97, they've caught the semi truck engine makers cheating and I think there was a third episode in recent years. It would be good to see them do some real world testing on the gasser fleet. Relying on "self-reporting" by the manufacturers isn't working.
Not a native speaker, but: it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
Autocorrect does a lot of this stuff -- puts apostrophes in where they shouldn't be, for example. Don't be so quick to assume people don't know better. We're just in a hurry and didn't notice autocorrect did some weird stuff. I've often gone back and seen my posts and realized something got changed I didn't intend or i hit the wrong letter on the keyboard. This is a forum, not a writing class.
Ahem...let's not get so touchy, suydam. I am merely pointing out that, as a U.S. of A., we are pretty crappy at grammar and spelling. Believe me, I have no desire to grade all of you on your grammer and spelling, and, what's more, most of us carnuts on here do a pretty good job. Really good job!
What I was trying to merely point out, if I can, is that I found dino001's blurb following his posts to be humorous. And true, too. I mean, a place like America, where about 85% of drivers no longer feel the need ta signal anymore is certainly capable of being crappy spellers.
Which makes me think - most of you on here must signal your intention ta (see suydam, I do this on purpose...and the reason is is that people pronounce it "ta"...take a good listen to how people pronounce to - they pronounce it "ta", as in "I need ta go to the store.") change lanes. I mean, there is really good diction going on on these car forums on Edmunds. Respectable. Electable. Not regrettable.
Carry on. I just don't want people to think I'm judging their grammar and spelling when I'm not. I'm merely enjoying a fellow member's (possessive members) passion for correct spelling and grammar and, I recall a lot of "oh, please, do we have to go over this grammar lesson again, Mrs.Koerner!" comments while in 4th grade. A lot of these rules started to get hammered in to us round about 3rd grade, 4th grade and, of course, 5th and 6th grade.
One really notices the crappy grammar on Facebook. No, it's not "text language and grammar" going on on Facebook(you know, these "luv u" types of expressions). Those people really don't know how ta spell or pronounce or sound things out. I will say this, most people on Facebook do know how ta get their point across, which is heartening. Because if life were an emergency 24/7/365, that would be really the most important thing!
Don't forget that signal when changing lanes. Among safety issues it's just plain rude not to. No rant, so no need to say "end of rant."
I'm maxed out and don't even have a dedicated 15 amp circuit available for a small 110v hot tub. You were smart to upgrade.
I visited my brother the other day and he just finished a kitchen, laundry, and 2 bath renovation. His 200 amp panel maxed out and they had to add a sub panel. I know that my kitchen renovation used 7 circuits.
Yeah but think of the chicks you'll get...think of the chicks!
My chick of nearly 30 years doesn't bat an eye when I bring home a 900 cc hooligan bike or when I tell her I need a 300-400 horsepower car for a daily driver- so attracting new chicks is far, FAR from a priority...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Similar thing happens to car brands for some people - once you are BMW/GM/VW guy than any transgressions of "your" brand are "no big deal", "exaggerated by press", "media conspiracy", yet, when the other brand does it, then suddenly they have to be shut down and locked up.
There is a special room reserved in Hell for all fanboys who have guzzled the Kool-Aid by the gallon and twisted themselves into a pretzel to justify whatever the conduct and products of their Most Holy Marque...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
dino001 - man, I appreciate you on these spelling and pronunciation issues here in North America..
I agree. I believe some internet forums exist only to prove that the mentally feeble can operate a computer. Hoards of dimwits can be found talking about "break peddles" or buying a new front "bumber." One guy on a Mazda board posted that he had a "raddle" in his "golvebox." I replied that it was a common issue- the cause was almost always a "raddlesnake."
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Interesting article. And it's (note correct use of apostrophe) what the EPA should be doing with regard to diesels. However, checking gas models needs to be included. As a lady who worked with us used to remind us about people who cheated in one method relative to whether or not they would lie in other instances, "A dog doesn't change its spots." (Note correct use of possessive pronoun without apostrophe.)
The VW/Audi article cited has a really good pun: "Volkswagen has provided a wake-up call to the possibility for a company to creatively drive through loopholes in the process." LOL
Imid....grammatically correct but it is supposed to be a leopard who doesn't change his spots........unless it is a Dalmation!
The article doesn't say other companies are cheating, just they will test to see. Apparently, it is difficult to meet these standards and car companies may be cheating....or it could be a bluff to try to make car makers comply.
dino001 - man, I appreciate you on these spelling and pronunciation issues here in North America..
I agree. I believe some internet forums exist only to prove that the mentally feeble can operate a computer. Hoards of dimwits can be found talking about "break peddles" or buying a new front "bumber." One guy on a Mazda board posted that he had a "raddle" in his "golvebox." I replied that it was a common issue- the cause was almost always a "raddlesnake."
Many grammatical as well as spelling miscues are actually typos. I've seen young people keyboarding at 100 wpm - difficult enough on a regular keyboard, but almost impossible to maintain effective grammar, punctuation and sentence structure on a smartphone keyboard.
Then, do people take the appropriate time to preview what they just wrote and edit their posts prior to actually posting them? Of course not. Today, it's speed that's most important to texters, not correct grammar/spelling/sentence structure.
As a retired educator and school administrator, it drives me up a wall to read posts and texts that possess poor syntax, spelling and grammar - it's like trying to translate a foreign language into English. Not one of my favorite activities in life.
Not a native speaker, but: it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
Autocorrect does a lot of this stuff -- puts apostrophes in where they shouldn't be, for example. Don't be so quick to assume people don't know better. We're just in a hurry and didn't notice autocorrect did some weird stuff. I've often gone back and seen my posts and realized something got changed I didn't intend or i hit the wrong letter on the keyboard. This is a forum, not a writing class.
Ahem...let's not get so touchy, suydam. I am merely pointing out that, as a U.S. of A., we are pretty crappy at grammar and spelling. Believe me, I have no desire to grade all of you on your grammer and spelling, and, what's more, most of us carnuts on here do a pretty good job. Really good job!
What I was trying to merely point out, if I can, is that I found dino001's blurb following his posts to be humorous. And true, too. I mean, a place like America, where about 85% of drivers no longer feel the need ta signal anymore is certainly capable of being crappy spellers.
Which makes me think - most of you on here must signal your intention ta (see suydam, I do this on purpose...and the reason is is that people pronounce it "ta"...take a good listen to how people pronounce to - they pronounce it "ta", as in "I need ta go to the store.") change lanes. I mean, there is really good diction going on on these car forums on Edmunds. Respectable. Electable. Not regrettable.
Carry on. I just don't want people to think I'm judging their grammar and spelling when I'm not. I'm merely enjoying a fellow member's (possessive members) passion for correct spelling and grammar and, I recall a lot of "oh, please, do we have to go over this grammar lesson again, Mrs.Koerner!" comments while in 4th grade. A lot of these rules started to get hammered in to us round about 3rd grade, 4th grade and, of course, 5th and 6th grade.
One really notices the crappy grammar on Facebook. No, it's not "text language and grammar" going on on Facebook(you know, these "luv u" types of expressions). Those people really don't know how ta spell or pronounce or sound things out. I will say this, most people on Facebook do know how ta get their point across, which is heartening. Because if life were an emergency 24/7/365, that would be really the most important thing!
Don't forget that signal when changing lanes. Among safety issues it's just plain rude not to. No rant, so no need to say "end of rant."
In a country as big as ours there are so many regional accents that the pronunciation of to as ta is a minor thing. Some famous Englishman said that England and Ameica were seperated by a common language.
(Then again it could be this glitchy system we are using. I just noticed that the ten second delay I'm getting as I type caused America to come out misspelled.)
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Comments
If they cheated on diesel info and gas model data in Europe, then the US may likely be next for gas model problems to be exposed.
The problem is if VW/Audi cheated here on gas models as well as diesel, have other brands also used deceit in the testing on gas models as well.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Andres, it's really not a matter of "point of view." It has to do with what's right and what's wrong.
We all have to be careful not to use synthetic reasoning - using unproved or unsubstantiated information or data as "fact" and then go on to refer to that info to prove or disprove a hypothesis.
If an automobile manufacturer has to design its engines to pollute 10-40 times permissible levels of emissions to gain an edge on horsepower and fuel economy, everyone gets cheated - the owners of those vehicles, the people who have to breathe those pollutants, the people who buy the polluting vehicles as used cars, etc.
It's just a matter of looking at things from "various" and "alternative" points of view. If VW had taken a more realistic and scientific approach, taking into consideration the possible consequences of cheating in determining whether or not to build engines that "cheat", they would have not built those engines.
It's just a shame that they allowed this to continue in order to be more competitive. VW stated that it was a group of mid-level rogue engineers that caused this fiasco and that upper management had no knowledge of the "cheat chip". I find that hard to believe when considering 11+ million vehicles are affected - but if they didn't know about that chip, that doesn't say much for their management.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I spose I'll get both sides of the story here on Edmunds because we seem ta have a truckload of VW fans on here.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm digging the power of that Coyote V8 but I'm especially digging that a woman at work that is young enough to be my daughter told me I could "park it in her garage".
I've seen a lot of late model Mustangs around my area and I think they were mainly driven by old coots like me. Maybe the kids can't afford them.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Thanks everyone for your replies. Mike, last year you gave me excellent instructions and I got it going right away.
This time I couldn't get the needed amber light, no matter what I did, and I spent almost an hour. Then I was on the phone with first level Homelink rep for almost 2 hours We tried every combination and probably wiped out my settings for the 2 garage doors at home. He gave up and sent me to level 2, a nice young lady.
Then 2nd lady tried for 1/2 hour then asked if I wanted a break. I had dinner, got a new battery for the garage remote, and she called back in exactly an hour and a half. I think she researched the problem.
Her fix was to ignore the wrong colored lights...I never got an amber. Hold the button, it went green, then red, then flashed green. When it is flashing hold remote near and press remote.
The next step would have been to go to MB dealer, but she got it fixed. She did say new Mercedes seemed to be harder than average to program.
Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Several brands have made restitution to customers based on not meeting the fuels mileage estimates.
If I had a VW diesel, I'd be worried about the emissions/exhaust system being 'down engineered' to only handle the cheater software parameters.
"Thanks for the help, lol about trading the MB for an Escalade. I better record this info for when I get home and next time."
I mentioned "Escalade" because you said your case was "escaladed" as opposed "escalated"! Just a matter of Canadian spelling vs. American spelling - again!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
Speaking of electrical things, I just had my house electrical service upgraded to 200 amps from the original 1950s 60 amp service. Two days of work by 2 and sometimes 3 electricians. This is the first step of doing a number of upgrades here over the next few years. The new panel is gigantic compared to what was here before.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
My curiosity is more surrounding how the government did not figure this out and whether other manufacturers have been taking advantage in a similar way that has not been identified yet. Should be interesting.
How many class action lawsuits will be filed and how many years will it take to settle those suits?
When and how much will VW pay in penalties in the U.S. for cheating the EPA regulations?
When and how much will it cost VW to correct the cheat chips and how much horsepower and fuel economy will be affected?
There are many other issues and questions to be answered - I just want to see this played out. GM suffered! Takata is suffering (Daimler-Benz is now on the possible recall list for Takata airbags along with several other new additions). Toyota is suffering financially! "What's good for the goose is good for the gander!"
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
In Canada we also call those things that are in department stores Escaladers!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
FWIW, day 4 with the GTI and I find myself trying to find excuses to go for a spin...they know how to build a fun ride.
"In Canada we also call those things that are in department stores Escaladers!"
Now that's funny!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
The net result was that I heard Gordon Lightfood (whose music I enjoy, BTW) far, far too much. You wouldn't believe how often it was played. I'm sick to death of it now.
Now the Canadian Railroad Trilogy, on the other hand. . .
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
I would link to it but don't think it comes out online until next month.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
@ab348, upgraded to 200 amp (from fuses) in the UP. Maxed out at 100 amp here and need to do the same, quote is around $2,000. Why they didn't go big when they built the house beats me, it's not that old.
@cdnpinhead, Gordon got heavy airplay in the UP too. Way too heavy.
My sister is still mad at VW over her 2000 New Beetle's power windows that took years to get sorted out.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Mine was about twice that coming up from the mid-1950s, but it needed to be done. The guys worked hard.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The house is almost 3,000 square feet and have never had to reset a breaker.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Doesn't make sense to be so cheap on a truck that is worth at least 25% less just from depreciation.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
dino001 - man, I appreciate you on these spelling and pronunciation issues here in North America. I still mess up and put an apostrophe in between the t and s for a possessive application. What's funny is I can still remember the lack of attention to detail that existed when these things were being taught to us in Edmonds, WA, in grade school. I remember kids just plowing through the grammar exercises and wondering "Do these kids care about these petty...I...I mean very, very detailed grammatical rules?" You've got to be a certain type to want to get them all right. I thought for sure we were taught to use the apostrophe for a possessive application but that was wrong teaching or...wrong learning on our (students) part.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
http://ca.finance.qa2p.global.media.yahoo.com/news/epa-test-diesel-cars-effort-cheaters-193547747.html
2018 430i Gran Coupe
with regard to diesels. However, checking gas models needs to be included. As a lady who
worked with us used to remind us about people who cheated in one method relative to
whether or not they would lie in other instances, "A dog doesn't change its spots." (Note
correct use of possessive pronoun without apostrophe.)
The VW/Audi article cited has a really good pun: "Volkswagen has provided a wake-up call to the possibility for a company to creatively drive through loopholes in the process." LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Similar thing happens to car brands for some people - once you are BMW/GM/VW guy than any transgressions of "your" brand are "no big deal", "exaggerated by press", "media conspiracy", yet, when the other brand does it, then suddenly they have to be shut down and locked up.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Part of the issue here was half-a***d renos done over the years by a former owner. The main panel in the basement ended up in a clothes closet, a real no-no according to code here. They found the 220V cable going to the stove had a splice in it that was just stuffed up in the joists, no junction box or anything other than some Marrette wire nuts. And of course nothing was grounded. The original metal service pole on the side of the house was actually rusted. It was a mess for sure, so I don't mind the investment. It would hit me at the end anyway if I ever decide to sell.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Gotta love the experts that Lowes used to have working days in plumbing and electric departments.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
@imidazol97, they've caught the semi truck engine makers cheating and I think there was a third episode in recent years. It would be good to see them do some real world testing on the gasser fleet. Relying on "self-reporting" by the manufacturers isn't working.
it's = it is, its = possessive for it (this one drives me particularly crazy - why is it so hard for people who were born and raised in this language?) , they're = they are, their = possessive for they, here = not there, hear = receive and interpret sound waves
Autocorrect does a lot of this stuff -- puts apostrophes in where they shouldn't be, for example. Don't be so quick to assume people don't know better. We're just in a hurry and didn't notice autocorrect did some weird stuff. I've often gone back and seen my posts and realized something got changed I didn't intend or i hit the wrong letter on the keyboard. This is a forum, not a writing class.
Ahem...let's not get so touchy, suydam. I am merely pointing out that, as a U.S. of A., we are pretty crappy at grammar and spelling. Believe me, I have no desire to grade all of you on your grammer and spelling, and, what's more, most of us carnuts on here do a pretty good job. Really good job!
What I was trying to merely point out, if I can, is that I found dino001's blurb following his posts to be humorous. And true, too. I mean, a place like America, where about 85% of drivers no longer feel the need ta signal anymore is certainly capable of being crappy spellers.
Which makes me think - most of you on here must signal your intention ta (see suydam, I do this on purpose...and the reason is is that people pronounce it "ta"...take a good listen to how people pronounce to - they pronounce it "ta", as in "I need ta go to the store.") change lanes. I mean, there is really good diction going on on these car forums on Edmunds. Respectable. Electable. Not regrettable.
Carry on. I just don't want people to think I'm judging their grammar and spelling when I'm not. I'm merely enjoying a fellow member's (possessive members) passion for correct spelling and grammar and, I recall a lot of "oh, please, do we have to go over this grammar lesson again, Mrs.Koerner!" comments while in 4th grade. A lot of these rules started to get hammered in to us round about 3rd grade, 4th grade and, of course, 5th and 6th grade.
One really notices the crappy grammar on Facebook. No, it's not "text language and grammar" going on on Facebook(you know, these "luv u" types of expressions). Those people really don't know how ta spell or pronounce or sound things out. I will say this, most people on Facebook do know how ta get their point across, which is heartening. Because if life were an emergency 24/7/365, that would be really the most important thing!
Don't forget that signal when changing lanes. Among safety issues it's just plain rude not to. No rant, so no need to say "end of rant."
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
The article doesn't say other companies are cheating, just they will test to see. Apparently, it is difficult to meet these standards and car companies may be cheating....or it could be a bluff to try to make car makers comply.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Then, do people take the appropriate time to preview what they just wrote and edit their posts prior to actually posting them? Of course not. Today, it's speed that's most important to texters, not correct grammar/spelling/sentence structure.
As a retired educator and school administrator, it drives me up a wall to read posts and texts that possess poor syntax, spelling and grammar - it's like trying to translate a foreign language into English. Not one of my favorite activities in life.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
(Then again it could be this glitchy system we are using. I just noticed that the ten second delay I'm getting as I type caused America to come out misspelled.)
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible