Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

oldfarmer50

tyguy said:

Yesterday I was hunting the local classifieds for cars with manual transmissions and came across a 2013 Audi A4 like this one:



2013 A4, 2.0 turbo motor, fewer than 30,000 miles, manual transmission, gorgeous metallic blue exterior paint in pristine condition, and a light grey interior showing no signs of wear or tear. It looked like a brand new car, so my wife and I headed over to the dealership to check it out. During this latest round of car shopping I like to greet the salesperson by proclaiming I want to buy the one car no other shopper wants to drive off their lot, a manual transmission family sedan. In the four times I've done this, the salesperson has nodded their head and agreed with my assessment.

The A4 looked almost as nice in person as the pictures showed, and what I couldn't detect in the pictures was a high quality clear bra on the hood and fenders. Very nice. The only defects I could see in the preliminary assessment were some light swirls in the clear coat, which is something I could correct at home and prevent in the future.

So, after a bit of a wait while the next salesperson became available, we took it out for a drive. I can see why Driver liked his same-vintage A4 before the clutch bombed. Nice suspension, decent pull from the motor, classy interior with comfortable seats, and isolation from wind. The car was shod with snow tires, so the fair bit of road rumble making its way into the cabin was to be expected and can be excused. I expect all-seasons to provide a very nice ride. The acceleration was particularly rewarding coming from the Impreza.

The main downside we found during our test drive was a smallish cabin with (relatively) limited rear seat leg room and an equally small trunk. Those items would take some adjustment. Also we noted there was no rear backup camera, which was surprising given the year of manufacture and new build price (around $40,000).

All in all I liked the car and had them take some notes on our Impreza for a trade-in assessment, which they'll finish Monday when they get in touch with their Subaru sister dealership.

So, last night and this morning I dove into my research. Audi can be a scary brand to purchase based on extensive and costly repairs in the 2000s. What I found surprised me. The only common theme I could find regarding reliability issues is a tendency to consume oil in the 2.0 engines. Audi has been addressing the problem and by 2013 it seems to be more rare. So, that's a win.

Next I researched insurance and was a bit disappointed but not surprised to find the Audi would increase our rates by $180 a year. Not ideal but livable.

And then I researched fuel. With today's price volatility that's a tough one to estimate, so I averaged it at $2.50 a gallon for RUG and $2.80 a gallon for PUG assuming 10,000 miles a year.

Finally I looked into depreciation over a 7-year period averaging 10,000 miles a year.

What I came up with shocked me. Using the Impreza as a baseline, a slightly used 2016 Mazda 6 would cost me $23/month more, and the 2013 Audi A4 sums up to $121/month incrementally more. And that's assuming the dealership comes down quite a bit on their price to be more realistic (IMHO). Ouch.

That's a big hit for the Audi. What's interesting is the Mazda will cost thousands less to buy at 3 years newer, but the Audi will be worth less in 7 years. Time does not treat Audi depreciation well.

My lovely wife, amazing in too many ways to detail here, is totally supportive if I go for the Audi. She told me in no uncertain terms I work hard and provide for the family, I'm entirely too analytical and practical at times, and she wants me to have fun. She's making this much harder

I'm with your wife. Go enjoy yourself. Me, I wouldn't buy a used stick Audi for fear it was driven hard. What would be the relative cost of buying new with a lease?

isellhondas

The store where I worked sold a lot of used cars. Usually around 150 a month. They finally got to the point they wouldn't sell certain brands because of constant headaches and unhappy customers. Land Rovers, Audis and most Volvos were on that list along with Jaguars. We would wholesale these cars.

The potential profits just weren't worth the risks....for us!

Also, the stick shift that you like will eliminate most potential buyers when it's finally time to dump it.

Having said this, there are a lot of happy Audi owners. I totally agree that people should drive what they like!

Last caution....if you REALLY like this car you might want to move quickly and not over analyze things. I can't begin to tell you how many of my customers missed out when thjey didn't move quickly enough.

Good luck!

berri

I'd be cautious about a used foreign lux car that wasn't CPO and under a warranty just because of the potentially high maintenance and repair costs that may be incurred. But then sometimes areas have a good independent repair shop that handles these makes which might mitigate those worries some.

Mr_Shiftright

Where I live there's an Audi specialist. They charge $350 bucks to go through that car like it was an army recruit about to endure basic training. Once they are done, you'll know exactly what you are dealing with. Of course, you can't bring every car you are interested in to a repair shop. That gets expensive fast. But you can tell a great deal about any used car with some inspection on your own---first a CarFaxs, then a road test, then up on a lift. If it passes all 3, then take it in for a PPI.

I'd buy a Camry based on a road test but not a German car.

stickguy

a 2013 is still going to be under warranty for some period. Certainly a few more years for powertrain.

what are they asking for this? And what is your estimate on what the imprezza is worth now? Your depreciation amounts to ~$10,000 over 7 years. But, it is a much nicer and more expensive car, so of course it is going to cost more to own.

just spitballing, 30K on the audi, worth 15K in 7 years = 15K depreciation. Imprezza is what, 15-5 = 10? Doesn't seem so bad doing it that way.

bottom line, just gotta decide what you want, and pay to play. If it is all about minimizing costs, buy a few year old appliance and keep it 15 years. Get the lowest level stripper model (cheaper and less to go wrong!). But, if you want a nice car for the experience, it can't all be about the money!

I will say, that is a darned nice looking A4.

ab348

tyguy said:

What I came up with shocked me. Using the Impreza as a baseline, a slightly used 2016 Mazda 6 would cost me $23/month more, and the 2013 Audi A4 sums up to $121/month incrementally more. And that's assuming the dealership comes down quite a bit on their price to be more realistic (IMHO). Ouch.

That's a big hit for the Audi. What's interesting is the Mazda will cost thousands less to buy at 3 years newer, but the Audi will be worth less in 7 years. Time does not treat Audi depreciation well.

My lovely wife, amazing in too many ways to detail here, is totally supportive if I go for the Audi. She told me in no uncertain terms I work hard and provide for the family, I'm entirely too analytical and practical at times, and she wants me to have fun. She's making this much harder

Is the Mazda an actual car that you have priced, sat in and driven, or a theoretical example?

Reliability aside - a big deal, I know - I doubt the Mazda can match the driving experience of the Audi. There is just something about the feel of a German car that the Japanese have never matched. But that is a lot of money each month, and you are only going up a single model year. Add that to the uncertainty of buying a used 3 year-old Audi and I would be hesitant.

Just my opinion though. You should do what you want that will make you happy.

explorerx4

Comparing an Impreza to an A4 isn't an apples to apples comparison It make sense that anA4 is going to cost more.

abacomike

explorerx4 said:

Comparing an Impreza to an A4 isn't an apples to apples comparison It make sense that anA4 is going to cost more.

We're all forgetting driver's negative experience with Audi and his 2013 A4 stick.  His clutch went under 12,000 miles and he had big issues with Audi Consumer Affairs. 

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

a 2013 is still going to be under warranty for some period. Certainly a few more years for powertrain.

what are they asking for this? And what is your estimate on what the imprezza is worth now? Your depreciation amounts to ~$10,000 over 7 years. But, it is a much nicer and more expensive car, so of course it is going to cost more to own.

just spitballing, 30K on the audi, worth 15K in 7 years = 15K depreciation. Imprezza is what, 15-5 = 10? Doesn't seem so bad doing it that way.

bottom line, just gotta decide what you want, and pay to play. If it is all about minimizing costs, buy a few year old appliance and keep it 15 years. Get the lowest level stripper model (cheaper and less to go wrong!). But, if you want a nice car for the experience, it can't all be about the money!

I will say, that is a darned nice looking A4.

It's only 4 years warranty from date of service...so if that Audi went into service, say 9/12, you don't have that much left--8 months and change.

mako1a

I once rationalized buying a car that if it were to become unservicable it would still be fun to look at it sitting in the garage.

Mr_Shiftright

Like a Maserati Quattroporte---you can just sit in it and stream sports.

bwia

tyguy - you've outlined all the reasons not to buy the A4. It is a used German car, manual transmission, accelerated depreciation, tight seating comfort, and high insurance costs. On the other hand it is a nice blue color and your wife can be persuaded. You make the call -- it's your money of course.

[Deleted User]

Lots of good questions and arguments, but I'm hopping on a flight to Los Angeles in a few minutes, so not a lot of time to respond. I'll be succinct for the first post ever.

Reliability: I'm less concerned with this generation. Audi standings overall are way up, and the A4 in particular appears to be doing well. Audi parts will definitely cost more and I know more parts will break than the Subaru or Mazda. Maintenance should cost roughly the same. I didn't include repairs in the calculation. I do all my own maintenance and nearly all my own repairs.

Depreciation: I used proxies for models today. I picked similar models 7 years older with another 70,000 miles and checked NADA trade in today. So, 2006 A4, 2005 Impreza, 2009 Mazda 6. Not precise science, but depreciation never is, and a sudden surge in popularity of any model could totally change things. Audi would be $17,750, Mazda $11,600, and Impreza $10,500 depreciation.

Stick shift: that's the reason for this change. I miss driving one and I'm afraid they will be gone in a few short years. The 2017 A4 initially will not have one and may never again. BMW informed me the manual 4 cylinder 3 series is going away.

Costs: I used incremental over the Impreza as a reference. Mazda is pretty close in cost but has no AWD like the Subaru and Audi.

Fun factor: definitely heavily favors the A4 due to the engine. The Mazda is no slouch, but the engine is much weaker and the cabin noiser, two things I want to improve from the Impreza (loud and slow).

Warranty: over one year and 20,000 miles left on the A4 factory warranty. The Audi is mint. Unbelievably nice condition.

Mazda: yes, it exists. 2016 iTouring model with stick and 5,000 miles.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

I bought a Whirlpool last year and it has been great.  My electric bill dropped significantly when I got rid of the 25 year old GE fridge.  It has a 1-year warranty and when the warranty is up, it gets picked up by my maintenance contractor for all my electric, plumbing and appliances.

The contractor recommended Whirlpool - so we went with it.

I hear that about the Whirlpool and family of brands. I like one Frigidaire, but it's not the old Frigidaire that was GM and made in Moraine by IBEW workers. Now made in Juarez. Someone bought the name, like they have many other names, and it's one of a family that ended up with lots of quality names, Gibson, Kelvinator, etc., for products made by AB Electrolux.

ab348

I have a Frigidaire refrigerator made by Electrolux. It is 7 or 8 years old. It has worked OK and I like the space it has but a couple of things bug me. It is loud, more than any fridge I can remember. It buzzes, it pops, all sorts of strange sounds. Also, the deli tray is suspended on a pair of plastic slides that are very poorly designed. One of them breaks, almost like clockwork, every 18-24 months.

Worst thing was after I had it for about 18 months, one day it started making this ungodly noise every time it cycled on, really loud. So loud you wouldn't be able to sleep. I pulled it out and removed the panel at the bottom back that covers the works. The fan blades had moved along the shaft and were fouling on a shroud. I was able to relocate it and it has never come back. But I am unimpressed with the build quality. When I was growing up we had a GM Frigidaire that was built like a tank. This is not that.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

I bought a Whirlpool last year and it has been great.  My electric bill dropped significantly when I got rid of the 25 year old GE fridge.  It has a 1-year warranty and when the warranty is up, it gets picked up by my maintenance contractor for all my electric, plumbing and appliances.

The contractor recommended Whirlpool - so we went with it.

I hear that about the Whirlpool and family of brands. I like a French door Frigidaire but it's not the old Frigidaire that was GM and made in Moraine by IBEW workers. Someone bought the name, like they have many other names, and it's one of a family that ended up with lots of quality names, Gibson, Kelvinator, etc., for products made by AB Electrolux.

imidazol97

Today was depressing because we got our first snow of couple inches or less and gusting winds
after overnight rain from a high yesterday of 50.

Makes a vacation in south Florida look kind of nice. No hurricanes this time of year. LOL

I've been refilling the bird feeders because our birds went crazy today with the snow and
cold--now at 22.

Driver100 is in Detroit Metro but he's all snug as a bug in a rug from the weather.
Just have to wait for the plane. Waiting after being bumped from flights is why we never
tried to take advantage of my sister-in-law's buddy passes we could have used.
Her parents flew free.

abacomike

ab348 said:

I have a Frigidaire refrigerator made by Electrolux. It is 7 or 8 years old. It has worked OK and I like the space it has but a couple of things bug me. It is loud, more than any fridge I can remember. It buzzes, it pops, all sorts of strange sounds. Also, the deli tray is suspended on a pair of plastic slides that are very poorly designed. One of them breaks, almost like clockwork, every 18-24 months. Worst thing was after I had it for about 18 months, one day it started making this ungodly noise every time it cycled on, really loud. So loud you wouldn't be able to sleep. I pulled it out and removed the panel at the bottom back that covers the works. The fan blades had moved along the shaft and were fouling on a shroud. I was able to relocate it and it has never come back. But I am unimpressed with the build quality. When I was growing up we had a GM Frigidaire that was built like a tank. This is not that.

Years ago, we had a Crosley Shelvador fridge.  It was the first refrigerator with storage on the inside door shelves.  How many of you guys remember that one - careful now, you'll be giving away your age!  

imidazol97

I can remember seeing them from when I was little, a long, long time ago, lol.


I had to go look up a picture.

Crosley also pioneered in radio equipment manufacturing. 500,000 Watts for WLW from the transmitter still visible from Tylersville road and I-75 off to the east. Years ago the Radio Free America broadcast antennas were visible from I75 and surrounded the Crosley broadcasting building on Tylersville rd. The antenna farm area is now a shopping mall with many other businesses spread around and includes ChickFilA and a hospital and doctor's building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pULljS30-Og

And his cars occasionally show up at car shows, especially near Cincinnati.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley/

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

I can remember seeing them from when I was little, a long, long time ago, lol. I had to go look up a picture. Crosley also pioneered in radio equipment manufacturing. 500,000 Watts for WLW from the transmitter still visible from Tylersville road and I-75 off to the east. Years ago the Radio Free America broadcast antennas were visible from I75 and surrounded the Crosley broadcasting building on Tylersville rd. The antenna farm area is now a shopping mall with many other businesses spread around and includes ChickFilA and a hospital and doctor's building. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pULljS30-Og And his cars occasionally show up at car shows, especially near Cincinnati. http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley/

Good grief - you are my age or darn close to it.  I was just a little boy when we got ours.  It had a tiny freezer - and you had to defrost it once a month.  Not an exciting task.

berri

My parents were Sears people, so we had a Coldspot.

imidazol97

Our earliest that I can remember looked sort of like this with the tip out storage at bottom for canned goods.
I remember I used to stack the cans for hours then put them away. Budding engineer skills.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

Today was depressing because we got our first snow of couple inches or less and gusting winds
after overnight rain from a high yesterday of 50.

Makes a vacation in south Florida look kind of nice. No hurricanes this time of year. LOL

I've been refilling the bird feeders because our birds went crazy today with the snow and
cold--now at 22.

Driver100 is in Detroit Metro but he's all snug as a bug in a rug from the weather.
Just have to wait for the plane. Waiting after being bumped from flights is why we never
tried to take advantage of my sister-in-law's buddy passes we could have used.
Her parents flew free.

We're getting your 50 temps today. Strange having a thunder storm in January. Lots of rain. If it washes all the salt off the road I might take the new car to work tomorrow even if it's cold.

Finally saw the Motorweek show Shifty was talking about. If only I had $50k. I'll have to buy another Power Ball ticket.

http://www.motorweek.org/reviews/road_tests/2016-ford-mustang-shelby-gt-350-gt-350r

imidazol97

I had mentioned the Shelby GT 350 and GT 350R on Motorweek. I still get a tingle up
my leg when I hear and see a cool Mustang. Not very practical for trips to Kroger,
though.

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

I can remember seeing them from when I was little, a long, long time ago, lol.


I had to go look up a picture.

Crosley also pioneered in radio equipment manufacturing. 500,000 Watts for WLW from the transmitter still visible from Tylersville road and I-75 off to the east. Years ago the Radio Free America broadcast antennas were visible from I75 and surrounded the Crosley broadcasting building on Tylersville rd. The antenna farm area is now a shopping mall with many other businesses spread around and includes ChickFilA and a hospital and doctor's building.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pULljS30-Og

And his cars occasionally show up at car shows, especially near Cincinnati.

http://oldcarandtruckpictures.com/Crosley/

Imid....you're traipsing around in my neighborhood.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

I had mentioned the Shelby GT 350 and GT 350R on Motorweek. I still get a tingle up
my leg when I hear and see a cool Mustang. Not very practical for trips to Kroger,
though.

Ooops. Yes it was you.

Not practical but when you're driving in fantasy land all the roads are free of traffic and have 200mph speed limits.

cdnpinhead

Does anyone else remember refrigerators with the big coil on top? They were made in the '40s and early '50s. My family had one for awhile. They're almost certainly collector's items at this point.

abacomike

cdnpinhead said:

Does anyone else remember refrigerators with the big coil on top? They were made in the '40s and early '50s. My family had one for awhile. They're almost certainly collector's items at this point.

That was the refrigerator we replaced with the Crosley Shelvador.  The compressor and freon coils were on top on a kind of dome.  The cold box was very small - that's why my mom had to shop frequently because it didn't have a very large storage area for dairy and meats.

Yep, things have sure changed in the last 60+ years.  More advances in technology and intellectual property in the last 100 years than in the previous 1000 years.  It's just exploding day after day, week after week....! 

ab348

M-B introduced the new E class at the Detroit Auto Show tonight. Not too sure about it...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160110/OEM03/301109994/with-2017-e-class-mercedes-aims-to-renew-a-hit

imidazol97

The car has a look in it's shape of the Taurus or the Jaguar S-type in the top picture, if I have the names right.

berri

Well, at least it isn't more over the top styling extremes like Lexus and others are doing. Looks like a car, not some toy rocket ship or hip sound stage.

stever

cdnpinhead said:

Does anyone else remember refrigerators with the big coil on top?.

My neighbor in Boise had one in his shop; it worked and he used it for his beer fridge. The house we had in the UP had a 1952 chest freezer that came complete with the original owner's manual. It worked too, but I kept it unplugged. T'was the same age as me, which was a bit scary.

abacomike

ab348 said:

M-B introduced the new E class at the Detroit Auto Show tonight. Not too sure about it... http://www.autonews.com/article/20160110/OEM03/301109994/with-2017-e-class-mercedes-aims-to-renew-a-hit

I agree, ab!  It is an elongated C Class with a less-than-desirable interior.  A standard 4 cylinder with 230+ hp just is not very appetizing for a close to 4000 lb car.  These are just photos and one really has to see it live and up close.  But I am not the least disappointed that I bought the 2016 CLS.  The new E class will have a 3.0 liter twin turbo but it will be an extra cost option.  My guess is that a well equipped 3.0 liter twin turbo will MSRP close to $67,000.  Quite an expensive proposition IMHO.

stickguy

I like the current model better. this does look like a shrunken S class, or ripoff of a Jag S type. Will have to see it in person to tell for sure, but I doubt it has the great visibility of the current model!

abacomike

stickguy said:

I like the current model better. this does look like a shrunken S class, or ripoff of a Jag S type. Will have to see it in person to tell for sure, but I doubt it has the great visibility of the current model!

Agreed!

abacomike

Going into the mid 50's tonight with highs tomorrow in the low to mid 60's.  Brrrrrrr....!

Will wear a sweatshirt tomorrow when I go to my doctor's appointment, but will try to wear shorts - this appointment is for the hematologist and he will need to examine my upper left leg for that blood clot.

Winter was bound to come to south Florida - just a matter of time. 

dino001

Mr_Shiftright said:

Most people, including me, aren't very good at risk assessment. It doesn't help that our media pumps out fear and paranoia at an alarming rate. In reality, you are at much greater risk of being harmed by someone you know rather than an anonymous terrifying stranger who is going to pop out of the bushes.

We are appalled when 50 people die in a terrorist attack, or even 1500, but we don't blink an eye when 35,000 people a year die in automobiles, and hundreds of thousands more are injured, some quite seriously.

Exactly right. Humans are absolutely terrible in risk assessment - that's why insurance is such a good business. You look at numbers dispassionately, but sell the fear. Media works exactly the same way - bad news sells, so everybody will pile on the images.

The other aspect of the risk assessment you mentioned - large numbers as an aggregate of many small events has very little impact on our perception of safety, but somehow small number of larger events is disproportionate influence on it. I think the fear comes from perception of such events being very arbitrary (wrong place and time), vs. car accidents (much more likely) having illusion of being in more control. Ironically, if bullets were literally flying around all the time, many people may be less scared than they are now, even though the probability of being hurt would be much greater. The instinct to go on and follow the herd would prevail, just like zebra and wildebeest jump into crocodile infested Nile.

BTW, this also makes us wired to be terrible investors (on average) - we flee when we should rush in and rush in when should flee. Same instincts.

carnaught

ab348 said:

M-B introduced the new E class at the Detroit Auto Show tonight. Not too sure about it...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160110/OEM03/301109994/with-2017-e-class-mercedes-aims-to-renew-a-hit

I for one absolutely love it. It has flowing lines, and a very modern looking interior. Many don't like when Mercedes models undergo a major change, at least initially.

imidazol97

abacomike said:

Going into the mid 50's tonight with highs tomorrow in the low to mid 60's.

Checked out temp this morning before I went out to get morning coffee: my thermometer said the outside temp was 51.
Oh, wait. There's a DECIMAL in between. 5 . 1 deg F.

houdini1

Seems odd that they would consider the E in the same class as the Lexus ES. I would think the GS would be the more likely competitor. Exterior looks great, but that interior is way too flashy for my taste. I can just imagine the sun glaring off all those chrome pieces.

stickguy

I think the ES and GS both get lumped in. GS is the natural match, but the ES is close in size, and sort of overlaps the IS and GS. (so C and E class).

houdini1

The ES does have a sweet V6 engine that I would prefer over the turbo 4 in the E class.

dino001

My initial reaction on notion that ES competes with E-class was "what??", but thinking a bit about the the wide price range or E-class, I could see somebody cross-shopping ES with low-end E-class (low engine, no options) and GS with high-end E-class (bigger engine, lots of options). Also, Lexus has moved ES up over time in terms of the size, equipment. Folks outside of forums like this one don't even know what FWD/RWD/AWD really means in terms of how vehicle drives and even if they do, they don't really care. Also, Audi sells its base A6 as FWD, so that could be seen tying ES to the group.

dino001

houdini1 said:

The ES does have a sweet V6 engine that I would prefer over the turbo 4 in the E class.

That for sure. FWD spoils the fun, though, but I'm sure not many really care. Plus, with all the advances of the torque splitting devices, one can argue putting big motors on front wheels is not as counterproductive as it used to be.

driver100

tyguy said:

Yesterday I was hunting the local classifieds for cars with manual transmissions and came across a 2013 Audi A4 like this one:



My lovely wife, amazing in too many ways to detail here, is totally supportive if I go for the Audi. She told me in no uncertain terms I work hard and provide for the family, I'm entirely too analytical and practical at times, and she wants me to have fun. She's making this much harder

Very interesting analysis ty. I agree with your wife though....over analyzing cost on something that is emotional. The Audi is well worth an extra $1400 a year in driving pleasure if it holds up.

I have had my rental Malibu for 2 days, I'll give a full review when I get some time. The short story is, the Malibu is a competent performer and gets you from A to B in a satisfactory way. What a deference getting back into the E400....even my wife said as soon as we got in the E....oh, it is so nice to be back in our own car.

I can't compare the two, the E costs 2 to 3X as much as the Malibu, but, there is a lot more enjoyment driving the E, when you consider the steering, comfort, handling, vision, technology, engineering, quality of build and materials, ergonomics, solidness, safety.....and the Audi will have that over a Mazda. The unknown is the reliability, especially if it needs a $2000 clutch job!

Personally, I'd risk it...you only live once.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Here I am at Detroit airport. 11 a.m. Spirit flight was cancelled. Now they have us booked for 6.30!

This is why I hate flying!!!!

Spirit is one airline I avoid like the plague! :@ Did they offer to provide you with free round trip tickets to anywhere Spirit flies? Why did they cancel the flight? Not enough passengers to make profit? Bad equipment? Whatever the reason, if it was not weather related, the airline must come up with remuneration for cancelling the flight. Next time, fly up north on an airline that is dependable!

Had to be equipment problem.
Flight was to leave Detroit for Tampa at 11 a.m.
We got on standby for a Spirit flight to Tampa that was to leave at 6 P.M.
It did come in late, by the time it got deiced (that was a weather related problem) we left at 8 p.m.
Got to Tampa at 10:30, home at midnight....long day.

When I was filling up the rental car the temperature plunged to below freezing, and a blizzard appeared.
Cold in Tampa today, just 65F., but better than 20F

andres3

oldfarmer50 said:

tyguy said:

Yesterday I was hunting the local classifieds for cars with manual transmissions and came across a 2013 Audi A4 like this one:



2013 A4, 2.0 turbo motor, fewer than 30,000 miles, manual transmission, gorgeous metallic blue exterior paint in pristine condition, and a light grey interior showing no signs of wear or tear. It looked like a brand new car, so my wife and I headed over to the dealership to check it out. During this latest round of car shopping I like to greet the salesperson by proclaiming I want to buy the one car no other shopper wants to drive off their lot, a manual transmission family sedan. In the four times I've done this, the salesperson has nodded their head and agreed with my assessment.

The A4 looked almost as nice in person as the pictures showed, and what I couldn't detect in the pictures was a high quality clear bra on the hood and fenders. Very nice. The only defects I could see in the preliminary assessment were some light swirls in the clear coat, which is something I could correct at home and prevent in the future.

So, after a bit of a wait while the next salesperson became available, we took it out for a drive. I can see why Driver liked his same-vintage A4 before the clutch bombed. Nice suspension, decent pull from the motor, classy interior with comfortable seats, and isolation from wind. The car was shod with snow tires, so the fair bit of road rumble making its way into the cabin was to be expected and can be excused. I expect all-seasons to provide a very nice ride. The acceleration was particularly rewarding coming from the Impreza.

The main downside we found during our test drive was a smallish cabin with (relatively) limited rear seat leg room and an equally small trunk. Those items would take some adjustment. Also we noted there was no rear backup camera, which was surprising given the year of manufacture and new build price (around $40,000).

All in all I liked the car and had them take some notes on our Impreza for a trade-in assessment, which they'll finish Monday when they get in touch with their Subaru sister dealership.

So, last night and this morning I dove into my research. Audi can be a scary brand to purchase based on extensive and costly repairs in the 2000s. What I found surprised me. The only common theme I could find regarding reliability issues is a tendency to consume oil in the 2.0 engines. Audi has been addressing the problem and by 2013 it seems to be more rare. So, that's a win.

Next I researched insurance and was a bit disappointed but not surprised to find the Audi would increase our rates by $180 a year. Not ideal but livable.

And then I researched fuel. With today's price volatility that's a tough one to estimate, so I averaged it at $2.50 a gallon for RUG and $2.80 a gallon for PUG assuming 10,000 miles a year.

Finally I looked into depreciation over a 7-year period averaging 10,000 miles a year.

What I came up with shocked me. Using the Impreza as a baseline, a slightly used 2016 Mazda 6 would cost me $23/month more, and the 2013 Audi A4 sums up to $121/month incrementally more. And that's assuming the dealership comes down quite a bit on their price to be more realistic (IMHO). Ouch.

That's a big hit for the Audi. What's interesting is the Mazda will cost thousands less to buy at 3 years newer, but the Audi will be worth less in 7 years. Time does not treat Audi depreciation well.

My lovely wife, amazing in too many ways to detail here, is totally supportive if I go for the Audi. She told me in no uncertain terms I work hard and provide for the family, I'm entirely too analytical and practical at times, and she wants me to have fun. She's making this much harder

I'm with your wife. Go enjoy yourself. Me, I wouldn't buy a used stick Audi for fear it was driven hard. What would be the relative cost of buying new with a lease?

Audi's are designed to be driven hard. In fact, I'd go so far as to say they like being driven hard, and prefer it to dawdling around no faster than your Grandpa's Buick.

If anyone is paying attention, Consumer Reports is showing that Audi has been on a steady upward incline for over the last decade in regards to reliability, so much so that they are nipping on Lexus/Toyota's heels, and have left the rest of the Germans (including VW) in the dust.

So one person had a bad clutch that died at 12K miles. I'd argue a clutch is a wear part, and write that off to a one-off bad wearable part. If two clutches went bad in 24K miles, that'd be something; though still anecdotal.

As others have said, you don't buy an Audi for the low maintenance or purchasing costs. You buy it because you want the better car. If you find the value equation after some years of ownership in Audi's favor; you'll be back; if you don't, you won't.

imidazol97

driver100 said:

When I was filling up the rental car the temperature plunged to below freezing, and a blizzard appeared.
Cold in Tampa today, just 65F., but better than 20F

20° F? !!!! Heat wave. You got out before the 5°F overnight.

I'll be interested to know which model of Malibu you had.

driver100

ab348 said:

M-B introduced the new E class at the Detroit Auto Show tonight. Not too sure about it...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160110/OEM03/301109994/with-2017-e-class-mercedes-aims-to-renew-a-hit

ab348 said:

M-B introduced the new E class at the Detroit Auto Show tonight. Not too sure about it...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20160110/OEM03/301109994/with-2017-e-class-mercedes-aims-to-renew-a-hit

Thanks ab...really liked getting a chance to see the 2017 model. At least they didn't mess it up as much as I thought they would. I like the styling of the 2015 more, it is more squared off, larger tail lights, larger rear window, inside is squarer and less jazzy in the 2015/16. Not sure about those circles (which could be speakers on the door and by the front pillar).

They didn't make it as curvy over the wheel wells as the S Class which was nice to see. I'd consider it, but I like the 2015 more.

stickguy

A gently used 2015 for my next car, in 2 years, still a possibility. Hopefully the new model helps push price of the old style down!